I think the Tenere 700 has become a living legend in just a handfull of years. In just one single move it said "enough of all this electronic BS". Set the rider in focus, be rock solid and go for an adventure. And people loved it.

Lucia hit the nail on the head for me "no unnecessary electronics" personally I don't think all these electronics are needed. Like you said the rider is the traction control with the throttle and feedback. I think all these electronics are taking the fun and skill out of riding. That's just my opinion, great video

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Thanks Marty and Lucia can ride the crap out of her World Raid!

The engine is very very reliable for remote areas that’s one thing I love about this bike and no high tech on the bike

I can't believe i am writing this comment and that in the end of January i am picking up mine. I sold my xmax (6 years owing - 61.190 km - zero problems) for this dream bike. Yamaha for life!

My husband rides a 2021 model and is very happy with it. Myself, I have, so to speak, the lower, more street-oriented version of it - the Tracer 700. Also a joy to ride. Both very versatile bikes. The Ténéré is a tad more like a tractor, pulls just through everything. Mine wants more rev, which I prefer. The T7 simply is a versatile do-it-all bike. Both bikes are almost technically identical (except my ABS cannot be switched off), we never missed rider modes or traction control. Or cruise control, for that matter. If I want that, I take the car. What we prefer with both of these bikes to the predecessors we owned: that you can easily get almost any kind of accessory you can think of. We both rode XT 600 E before, the pre-final models. These were almost done for, hardly anything you could add. So overall, really pleasant, no-fuss bikes.

I have had the Tenere World Raid for almost a year now, it is without doubt the best bike I have ever owned, it is great for touring, welsh fire roads and pretty much every road in France/Spain. I like the fact the standard screen creates no turbulance at motorway speeds, the suspension is absolutely perfect as standard, I really like the steering damper as it really helps me at slow speeds, the seat is comfortable, the only thing I don't like is the way the standard exhaust is attached to to the frame, I fitted a HPCorse raised exhaust which sorted the problem for me. Oh and I like that fact that it has no electronics other then ABS, exactly the same as my first bike (BMW) many years ago.

@leeinwis

2 ай бұрын

Is it really that hard to handle , say for someone used to a tall 300 rally and 5'10, 180 lbs ?

@davidz8

2 ай бұрын

no one can really tell you, you need to try one for yourself.

The format of polling some of your peers at the end for their opinion on the tenere was brilliant. I wish that more journalists would do this. It gave your opinions on the motorcycle a lot of credibility. Thanks for all that you do in the reviews as well, walking around the bike at the end showing the features is perfect.

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Thanks Jody

Very well said. I clock 70000km on my 2022 tenere 700. Yet to do VC and the bike still rocks solid. Long distance, offroading, daily commute and NO UNECESSARY ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS!!!!! A 10000km trip coming this sept, cant wait to rock it out again....

The simplicity of the T7 has always been key for me. You can make it what you want and super reliable. This style of video is great. Thanks👍

One of the biggest selling points is the reliability. There is no doubt the bike just works. People have accumulated some serious miles on them and not a single issue has popped up, unlike basically every other mid-size bike on the market.

I have been using 2 drz 400 motorcycles just sold one of them and ordered a t7 . It will arrive in August! I can’t wait we have a pile of parts sitting in the shop for when I get the bike! Crash protection, heated grips, kaoko throttle lock, wrap around hand guards so on! I’m so excited for my bike to arrive! Love the simplicity of the t7. The least amount of technology the better

I have the WR version and it’s absolutely brilliant, one of those rare bikes that you feel totally connected with, power figures are misleading and absolutely bang on for intended use, no daft electronics, the more you push this bike the more it rewards you, you just need to grow a pair and attack ! Only downside is it’s heavy bike to pick up after a long day, and it’s such a good off road bike it can get lead you into trouble, but I like that Legend of a bike 👌

Happy Christmas Thank you for keeping me entertained throughout the year. Also thanks for your advice

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching th videos and commenting Beverley, it’s much appreciated. Have a good Christmas and a happy new year

I test rode one earlier this year, it was so nice! Fun to ride on the road and I think it had enough power for the road. Will be trying one again this coming year for sure. Awesome video! Brilliant review!

What a great vid, super nice touch to get the added perspective from the others too. Great bike

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Cheers

Great review. One of the best i have seen on any motorcycle. Thanks.

@mancavemoto

Ай бұрын

Wow, thanks!

I have always liked the look of this bike. I agree The Africa Twin is the other really good-looking one. The upright dash on the T7 looks cool, and I like the windscreen. For a low-tech adventure bike it is perfect, apart from one thing: the tubed tyres. I have the equivalent scrambler in terms of low-tech [even more so] and stripped back. Another Yamaha: the SCR950. I love it, apart from the tubed tyres. Excellent review. I enjoyed the additional comments. Nick

Hi Tony Just to wish you and yours an enjoyable Xmas and all the very best for 2024. I enjoy do your work, just watched the tiny tour from 3 years back around the old wartime airfields in your region..very interesting! Atb, Alan

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Thanks Alan, all the best to you and yours too, thanks for the support it’s much appreciated.

I live in the U.S. and bought a 2023 T700. Our 2023 does not have the TFT screen 😟, but the simple electronics are loved. The bike handles well on freeways and loves off road adventures! Great bike!

The T7 is not perfect, but it is the closest thing to the perfect bike for me. The engine is torquey, can tractor from low revs and has excellent gear ratios for all types of offroad and comfortable on-road conditions. As noted by one of your guests, it is a great foundation to make it your own, with many after market parts available, and that allowed me to customise it to suit my needs.

Test road it and liked it a lot. But. She took one look at the seat, the height ,and said no thanks. They've put a big tank on it now too, matching my old 660. But the lower, bigger seat on the v strom, 20 litres tank and lower price swung it. Plus its tubeless. But if I didn't ride 2up, I'd have bought the Tenere. It's still my favourite. Ride safe and happy travels 👍

Great mini review Tony👍 Absolutely love my T7. One of the things that attracted me to it was its simplicity. It also has plenty of power, is fantastic off and on road and looks great too. Win, win, win 🏁

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Cheers Lloyd, hope your enjoying the snow!

The T7 has honest integrity, you and the machine.

The Interceptor of the mid-weight adv bikes. Cheap to own, easy to maintain and tons of third party parts available to customise it to your liking

Good review, spiced up by alternative viewpoints. It's definitely a very appealing bike. Strong, reliable and versatile. I had a 600 Ténéré single in Tanzania in the eighties, and the modern, twin version looks even better. Electric start even. But an 875mm seat height is too much in my old age, so I will stick to my UJF litrebike, which is only 10kg heavier and with an 830mm seat height. The fit-looking young man happily admitted that he dropped his 700 frequently on account of its height and weight . . .

Nice review and discussion Tony..for me personally the T7 is my perfect do everything bike. 3 plus years into ownership, bike fitted with Dunlop Raid's, Kriega luggage and many more farkles i look forward to riding it as much as possible. Long journeys, round the 'grey' lanes of West Sussex and Hampshire, endless trips exploring the Emerald Isle i can't fault it. The engine is a peach...strong and super reliable without being dull. And it looks great in a Dakarish way!!. Especially parked up on the top of the Healy Pass...love it, a keeper for sure. Cheers Steve 💚

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

They do look good with the Kriega OS base fitted, and I love the Raids, what a great tyre

good honest review again tony

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Cheers Allan

Waiting for a WR300R/WR350R/WR450R...in the US. Wish we got the other T7 models that are available in other parts of the World! 🤷🏼‍♂

For me, the only barrier to purchasing it is my distrust of tubed tyres.

@jimigrill

4 ай бұрын

You are missing out

i love T7 !!! it's hard to trade it with somethin else ! cheers from Greece man !

The first part of the word is "motor" Part of the popularity is the CP2 motor, it is an absolute gem. The problem with the T7? The muffler hanger, easily bent, easily damaged. This should have been a sacrificial, replaceable part.

I had one, it's a brilliant bike. You can drive 190 km/h on the highway, no problem, no vibrations. Fun to drive. Had to sell it because I'm a 5 foot 7, it was too tall for me. I had no problem to sell it though, to a decent price.

The Yam T700 is popular I feel because is way cheaper the the BMW Line up, or KTMs is lighter and has less Tech. I currently run a Honda CRF300 Rally (mainly for its light weight) I have also added some rally raid upgrades

A top heavy bike, not so easy to pick up, not so great on extremely long highway rides and no cruse control. Other than that is is a solid motorcycle easy to work on easy to maintain and a solid reliable motorcycle with one of the best engines ever made. Not only that but it is a beautiful machine to look at. It's simple and I like that no matter how much technology bikes get this one will stand the test of time.

Nice little review Tony, you reinforce my regrets! I recently won a brand spanking World Raid in black, with a few extras. I decided that the seat hight was probably too high at 890mm for me, not sure I made the right move in taking the cash alternative. Looking at my Royal Enfield Meteor in the garage, Mmmm, maybe I should have taken the bike.

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Wow what a great win! mmmm tricky, but if theres low confidence on a bike because of its height, thats not going to make you want to ride it

Love mine great to ride, top heavy but learning to live with it, find it really comfortable can ride it all day I’m 6ft 1 and 17 stone, had lower links put on and seat skimmed down 15mm , sounds brilliant with my black window exhaust, and it’s not underpowered for the job that it’s built for

I love my T7, had her around a year now and looking forward to getting out more next year. Thanks Tony.

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Thanks Andi

no electronics , great engine , tubed wheels a must for off road. great looking bike, and will go anywhere.

could you make a video on how you have mounted the dji to your helmet?

I'm a proper shortie,I mean a shortie,ive no chance with a tenere,so the700 tracer it is,could be said its the street version of the tenere,love it.

I went with the DE800 here in Australia we get world rade T7 but more expensive so the DE I found is best at 50 50 where T7 off road may as well have WR450 in that full on off road type thing but hay I like the T7 still .

searched the same question & saw this video was just uploaded 😂

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

👌

It's simple, capable, reliable and affordable.

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

👍

ridden one on the dirt but never owned one, reasons why I would buy one, cost, trail ability, simplicity not for its own sake just less stuff to go wrong, but the main reason proven reliability of this model and other Yams too. Reason I wont buy one I have short legs so too tall and top heavy compounding the issue. Yamaha have done a good job on it using a not ideal engine but have done nothing to mitigate its high C of G, a common complaint. Well done Yamaha for building a well designed, tested reliable bike, you with the orange shirts take notice design, test and prove before selling, dont just make it quick and hope the customers will keep taking it on the chin when it keeps failing. just spoke to the guys in my local bike cafe and a local on his new last year Norden has had his camshaft go, but KTM still saying there is no fault, their customer support is a joke.

T7 is a great bike cause it was a great price & can be modified alot.

Just priced one here in Canada. $16,900.00 out the door with all the fees and taxes. Not a cheap bike.

@mancavemoto

4 ай бұрын

Ouch

HI Tony, With the new system of vents it doesn't look like it will take a chin mount for a GoPro or am I mistaken! I normally see you wearing one!

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

I think this comment was mean't for a different video?

It's the bike everyone wanted. A ground up design of an off-road capable bike with a reliable engine. Since no other Japanese manufacturer can design a bike which can compete, despite efforts from Honda and Suzuki. The Tenere 700 remains king. You simply can't get a bike like the Tenere 700 unless you're willing to shell out more money and even then, the Tenere is probably better looking, better sounding, and equally if not more capable limited only by rider skill.

If it only had tubeless wheels and electronic cruise control I'd be a buyer. Considered the Tuareg 660, but bought the V85TT in the end.

@foodmaniac9339

5 ай бұрын

It's an adventure, no bullshit bike.

@Dave-sw2dm

5 ай бұрын

@@foodmaniac9339 so are you saying tubeless wheels are bs? Cruise is bs?

I just picked up a T7 for next riding season. I was drawn to the bike for its back to basics setup. My only complaint is the weak spring rates from factory.

@JohnSmith-ef8nr

2 ай бұрын

It's a easy fix, you can swap the front springs without removing the forks. Took me about half an hour. I don't recommend changing the rear spring unless you upgrade the shock.

@AdventureTomek

2 ай бұрын

@@JohnSmith-ef8nr I ended up with the rally raid extreme suspension setup.

You can travel alone! The bike Will not let you down😁

The CP2 engine. Doesn’t need any other reason. MT07,XSR700,tracer 7GT,R7 and the Tenere

It’s the Casio g-shock under the motorcycles 😊

Went to go look at mt-07 and mode it for a little off-road. See this bike having a hard time deciding. 😂

70k malaysian ringgit in my place. So high compare to transalp 57k which have higher spec. More power. If it 60k i would definitely buy it. Best looking bike in my eyes

@mancavemoto

14 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing

The simplicity and reliability must be the big appeal. If you were doing a world trip on and off road, would you take one of these or the new GS?

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

The Africa twin 😂

@Banditmanuk

5 ай бұрын

@@DaleMt09sp 🎅🤣

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

@@Banditmanuk this is a off road bike with some on road capability that’s why they sell loads in Australia South Africa America etc I wouldn’t like to do a tour on one the seats like a plank of wood there’s no escaping that it’s down on power from the other middleweight adv bikes as well don’t think you can spec cruise control either basic models suspension is to soft and often gets changed immediately for anyone who uses the bike for its purpose I’m getting to the point where I’m just going jump off KZread because all the uk vloggers just tell you how great every bike they’ve been loaned is it’s tedious after riding most of them myself unless you’re doing the tet everyday this bike is underpowered overpriced uncomfortable and under specced 😂

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Not all the 'uk' vloggers 😉

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

@@mancavemotohad a conversation with English biker Dan who just praises every bike he gets loaned for 15-20 minutes to maybe joining some forums or groups and having a section where you can list peoples real world issues rather than using the I can only report on the bike on the short time I’ve had it giving people a false representation in my opinion as for this t7 it has known issues like poor suspension plank like seat petrol cap leaks when bike falls over and it comes out with the key snatchy throttle abs resetting whenever you turn the bike off even on the trails very top heavy and hard to pick up and poor screen to name a few none of which is mentioned in your review even if you feel none of it’s true but 1000s do on forums groups pages etc do would be nice to see it reported I’m yet to see any of the people I follow blast a bike nowadays when I’ve chucked my leg over some and they’re honestly terrible

I have not ridden this bike, but have a question. You say it is a heavy bike, but it is within a few kilos of the other bikes you mentioned except the V-Strom. So if I am understanding what you are saying is that they are all the same weight in its class. Or are there any in that class, which are stupidly light? I have watched Adam Rieman remove a bunch of items and replace them with alternates where needed (e.g. exhaust pipe, tail tidy, etc.) and saved 14kgs.

@mancavemoto

4 ай бұрын

In this middleweight class theres not much between them to be honest. Theres always a way to reduce the weight, but its not always as big a problem as people make out.

@colin20cal

3 ай бұрын

The reason everyone says about the weight is because it carries it all high up eg: the tank is very high up but also it has a very tall engine which sits high up in the frame. Basically the bike is top heavy, once you go off vertical the weight takes over very quickly. Have owned my T7 for nearly four years and love it. Heavily modified and definitely a keeper. I'm a shortie at 5' 7" (170cms) with a 30" inseam, I have the confidence offroad but not the ability, so the bike spends some of the time lying down taking a rest from me. 🤔🤣🤣🤣

What model of Shoi helmet do you have?

@mancavemoto

Ай бұрын

That’s a Shoei RYD, which is sadly now discontinued.

Japan for ever 😊😊😊

I want to know why so many are on the used market here in the US? Most are 2023 and 24 models

👍

There was no competition for 3-4 years when it first came out. That's why it was so popular. Now they are not the only option, the vstrom and transalp are selling well.

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

Ktm 790 is around the same money nowadays as well

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Yep KTM790 is a great bike, and i'd probably pick it over the Yam? Given how little offroad I really do i've been surprised by the Transalp. its a better road bike than the Tenere and I think would make for a better distance tourer. It's just a bit boring to look at

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

@@mancavemoto t7 would be the last on my list ktm and v strom up top with the transalp in the middle

@silverdale3207

5 ай бұрын

@@DaleMt09sp Interesting, Reliability would put the KTM bottom for me, V-strom and Transalp very good bikes but more road biased than what T7 owners are after so not really same market. Just my opinion though.

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

@@silverdale3207 as a 60-70% off-road machine though what’s the comp other than the 790-890 adventure r and maybe the desert x which the new Dakar style one that’s about 19k for a bike that does it all to a degree the v strom and transalp are both better and if we throw the Tuareg in the mix isn’t that better than the t7 at everything other than reliability and dealer network

Yamaha would sell double the amount if it had cruise control.Some of us have buggered wrists.Cheers.

@JohnSmith-ef8nr

2 ай бұрын

You can add it, but it's £700.

@jasont.5523

2 ай бұрын

We sure get hammered on bike prices here in Canada!

The gearbox on mine drove me nuts. Stodgy shifting one day, butter smooth the next, false neutrals. Look up MT07 gearbox issues, and you’ll see it’s not uncommon. Irritated me to the point that I sold mine.

@user-rf9me7xm1w

5 ай бұрын

Oh dear, sounds like the gearbox I I had on myTriumph Street Twin. I sold that I bought a Yamaha. Glad to say, that cured the problem.

@Jimo368

5 ай бұрын

Yamaha has had gearbox problems since the early 1980s. Ventures, V Max, FZRs, R1s etc

@user-rf9me7xm1w

5 ай бұрын

@@Jimo368Thanks for that, suppose I’ve been lucky so far.

@marklevy9

4 ай бұрын

Have an XSR700 - gearbox is smooth

Can't believe comments on here about lack of cruise control.. What!!.. Its like complaining your electra glide harley dosnt have anti wheelie control. 🤔

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

It’s a deal breaker for a lot of people on a bike nowadays why wouldn’t you want it on a adv especially in the uk heading out to Europe doing long boring miles on motorways etc people harp on about how they love the basics but they wouldn’t buy a car without heaters or a radio electric windows etc this is just a basic bike that isn’t cheap anymore

@Grahamvfr

5 ай бұрын

@@DaleMt09sp It's not cruise control I have an issue with, but the t7 is a bit more than an adventure bike, and yamaha designed it as a very capable off road bike, with a nod to everything else.. Its capable of touring yes, but surely not it's raison D'etre.

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

@@Grahamvfr the world raid more so the standard t7 has very poor suspension out the box and like a 16L tank but then again the world raid is like 12k and you can get far better bikes for the money

Tech kamo or blue color?

@mancavemoto

Ай бұрын

Tech camo for me

Glad to see yamaha trialblazing the lighter (relatively) dual sport ; now with competition from the chinese , win win for us riders!!

I owned 1 for six months the most uncomfortable bike ever but on your review of the African twin DCT I bought one it’s brilliant.

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

I love the Africa Twin, it my favourite

Disappointed the new tenere explore does not have tubeless tyres

@mancavemoto

4 ай бұрын

I agree, seems to be a bit of an oversight?

Different tools for different riders. The GS still outsells the Tenere but the Yamaha is definitely making gains. Changes to the yamaha include more electronic options, not less. More refinement in things like shifting and ABS. I dont think there is a better middle weight adv out there and for pure hard off road the Tenere is better for the average rider. But then again, the average adv rider isnt doing hard enduro. Again, different tools for different riders. Or maybe different occasions...which is why i try to convince my wife i need multiple bikes 😂😂

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Yes indeed, point in fact at the recent Arai Tour X5 launch, we had a choice of Tenere or Tuareg to ride. I picked the Aprilia, a) because I hadn't ridden one in a while and b) it has a lower centre of gravity, a slightly lower seat and riding modes, so i felt more comfortable on it not knowing what conditions we were going to encounter.

Probably because it used to be 8000-8500 or whatever it is now some models are 12k or more seems a lot more popular in the USA and Australia than the uk you barely see them they go for less is more then still charge you the more price 😂 it’s about time they updated the cp2 as well to compete with Suzuki Honda ktm etc and the video at the end proved it’s not popular in the uk 😂

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

I'm not sure what you mean about the video at the end?

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

@@mancavemoto that a load of the people were foreign or abroad the t7 isn’t that popular in the uk any bike meet I go to or ride I go on I barely see any

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

@DaleMt09sp I approached people that I know own them and ride them as they should be. One rider in Australia, one in Denmark and two from the UK

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

@@mancavemoto did you watch big Rocks review he took it off-road and it was like a pogo stick 😂

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

I haven’t but I know he goes hard off road!

seems like motorcycle manufactures are competing to see who can put as much electronic mumbo-jumbo on their adventure bikes🤢🤪 thank you Yamaha you’re the only one listening simple, simple simple🙏🇨🇦

Not that back to basics with all that abs options. (But compared to other new bikes)

The reason for the popularity in the US is .. dealership support, strong aftermarket so many accessories to customize the bike, Japanese pedigree, and price point, you can buy it new or used, ride it for years and sell the bike at a minimum loss compared to a less popular bike or something made China or exotics from Italy or Austria. $10k in $8-7000 k out and you can ride the bike for the equivalent of $100-150 dollars a month, many bikes fall off a cliff of depreciation.

Would probably be more popular with a proper suspension and cruise control.....so simple and I am sure anyone would pay more for those items....Yamaha, hello?

@lucinxar2931

4 ай бұрын

I wouldn't. just get a plastic thingy; and if the suspension is an issue you can upgrade it, it is a budget bike after all.

@chrisvantassel8867

4 ай бұрын

@@lucinxar2931 ya but once you add a suspension it is no longer a budget bike. As of now they are $10k plus, add a $4k suspension and you are right there with an 890 but nowhere near the tech. If the T7 had a top notch suspension and similar tech In would buy it in a heart beat because it would be reliable.

@JohnSmith-ef8nr

2 ай бұрын

You can add cruise to the T7 but it's £700, I don't want it that much.

This is more offroad than adventure bike. No seat but plank, exhaust too high so no place for pannier and so on.

@mancavemoto

3 ай бұрын

There are plenty of pannier options for it, but i get your point

because yamaha pays for reviews? :)

@mancavemoto

4 ай бұрын

I don’t think they do to be honest…🤷‍♂️

@alt0v14

4 ай бұрын

@@mancavemoto maybe they not. But I'm tired of KZread reviewers that make only positive reviews on new bikes, phones, everything. They selling us crap. I'm not talking about you, don't take it personal.

@mancavemoto

4 ай бұрын

@alt0v14 oh don’t get me wrong, I’m not taking it personally, I just don’t think Yamaha would pay people? But some might worry that if they say bad things they won’t get access to the bikes. I always stay objective, but I agree it’s obvious that some creators are just too ‘false’. It’s a good bike, but I’d buy a Tuareg or Transalp over it 👍

Because it's cheap lmfao literally the only reason. Suspension sucks, muffler attachment point is flawed design, it's top heavy, no traction control, low fuel capacity, etc.

@DaleMt09sp

5 ай бұрын

Drop the thing and the exhaust bends your frame 😂

@JohnSmith-ef8nr

2 ай бұрын

Plenty of high mount exhaust options now.

On no not another review on this overreviewed bike

@mancavemoto

5 ай бұрын

Well I wasn’t sure if I was going to make a video because there’s a lot out there already which is why I tried to do something a bit different. Thanks for watching

oh yeah new pricing of the tenere I think is disgusting that's why ill get the Benelli,

im sorry but do think simple as the tenere is the best bike on the road, however its ugly as hell the Africa twin best looking bike but I'm hoping to get the new Benelli TRK 702x soon and once tried be the best bike on the road,

@mancavemoto

2 ай бұрын

Looks are of course very subjective!

@googlelimp9834

2 ай бұрын

@@mancavemoto ive tried every bike on the book so far and last was the transalp right next to it as the cb500x I could not tell witch was witch at the time so no longer interested in that, so tried everything so far, the tenere if perfect but id rather the tracer its sameengine same frame just looks nicer