Interesting topic. I think you hit the nail on the head when you highlighted the VAST range of rig setups out there. All the different kit available, from an entry-level wheel clamped to a desk, right through to £££ super rigs - plus endless in-game settings to adjust individual performance - probably means that no two sim racers experience EXACTLY the same feeling. So it’s absolutely natural that people gravitate to the one that best suits their own preference. As someone who regularly flutters between races on 5 different sims, it means I won’t ever be brilliant at any of them! But it also means I have a certain fondness for all of them, in their own unique way 😃

@scbsimracingcommunity390

6 ай бұрын

In my opinion most people champion the sim they are fastest in. After all its why most people play to stand a chance of winning. The perfect sim does not exist too small a player base and too many titles. I think most sims I have used have there merits but no one gets it completely right. Of the few I use regularly one gives the best close racing, the next the best realistic feel and the next the best graphics. But I play them all for the same reason it's good to race with your friends.

@marcosicolo4542

6 ай бұрын

PES was the best and FIFA was trash! 😂 Just like you I play almost all the sims out there and I have no idea which one is the most realistic. I like many sims for different reasons and don’t like others so much. One thing I can say for sure is that I don’t like the Iracing business model. The fact that I cannot play the game offline without the membership bothers me. And the membership has a negative psychological effect on me. If I’m paying for it I feel like I must play it or I will not get the best of my investment. That’s a stressful feeling which is the opposite of what a hobby should do. That’s why I didn’t renew my membership and quit playing that game

@deej_tv

6 ай бұрын

100% agree here! Also, been really enjoying your LFM AC vids mate!

@chrisrogerssimracing

6 ай бұрын

@@deej_tv Ahh thank you mate, I’m not really spending my sim time anywhere else at the moment! I’ll be getting all tribal about AC before too long… 🤣

@deej_tv

6 ай бұрын

@@chrisrogerssimracing loving how LFM has breathed new life into competitive AC. I'm split between that and iRacing currently, with a little rf2 sprinkled in here and there

As a sim racing enthusiast I appreciate... - Raceroom for multi-player, content and that close to sim hub physics that I grown to love. - AMS 1 for the great natural feel in the physics imo (never gets old) - AMS2 for immersion, historic tracks and good driving dynamics overall and passionate community - rFactor2 for ffb, mods, good physics no question and great community as well - ACC for consistent online racing in one of if not the best gt3 experience in sim racing - AC for customization in everyway... period and the list goes on and on with every sim... : )

I think you summed it up perfectly at 4:23 with people finding it subconsciously important to justify investment to a particular title. It's exactly the same as people who participate in console wars: they spent money on one, so therefore they feel the need to justify it to themselves.

I love racing sims especially F-Zero.

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Wipeout is better... (joke) 🤣

@RevRideReason

6 ай бұрын

😂 F- zero is throwback brillance and wipeout 🤣

It’s all personal preference and what your circumstances allow you to afford! But The absolute most important thing is having fun 👌

My nephew is an irl racing driver and he tells me (a passionate sim racer) that none of the sims we play are realistic. I've tried to get him into all of them.

@therealf.b.i9468

6 ай бұрын

He's absolutely right i worked with countless of racing drivers they all said no sim is realistic but they play it anyways because it's fun

@martin-hall-northern-soul

6 ай бұрын

I keep telling him to play them anyway, cos' they're fun @@therealf.b.i9468

I think that's quite common nowadays. Xbox against playstation, console against PC, european against japanese motorcycle or car brands, Meta Quest agains Playstation VR against PCVR, Thrustmaster against Moza against Fanatec and so on. We share all the same hobbies. It's crazy how easy it is for some people to hate also when they love the same hobby.

@kralikdoribunny5615

6 ай бұрын

It was always like that ... AtariXl/XE vs C64 vs Spectrum, Atari ST vs Amiga vs PC, PC vs Consoles, Nintendo vs Sega etc.

@MartinSchmuckVR

6 ай бұрын

@@kralikdoribunny5615 yes, kind of. I use to have a Atari 800XL and some of my friends had a C64. I don't remember the hate though.

After playing almost all current sims (except for iRacing for financial reasons), while I do prefer rFactor 2 as my go to, I think the world would be a worse place if rFactor 2 is all we've got. Every sim I've tried is either uniquely good at something or has features/cars/tracks that others don't and I really think people miss out when they disregard certain sims. As someone who doesn't care about ratings/ranks/ELO anymore, I really do appreciate the ability to hop from sim to sim, car class to car class, even discipline to discipline and do what we all should strive for: have fun racing. Tribalism accomplishes nothing but make our community less diverse, more ignorant and more hateful and it's our loss if we fall for it.

@mikecroshaw9233

6 ай бұрын

Well said, totally agree with this.

iRacing code isn't from the 1800. It just was discovered in 1881 next to the tomb of Ramesses II who died in 1213 BC.

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Hahaha quite a few comments on this video have made me laugh and this is up there with the best!

I love iRacing very much, but I've honestly had so much fun recently just racing against the ai in AMS 2. Its so good and I can't wait to see what they have planned in regards to updates, tracks and cars. I dont have the energy for my game is better than yours anymore. I grew up in the 90s and was a Sega kid on the playgrounds, fighting against the Nintendo kids. That kind of thing was exhausting then and is even more so now.

Genuinely, I play RF2 AC ACC & AMS2 equally! They all have good attributes for certain situations.

man, AC is like the forgotten middle child...even tho all the cars in those sims r already present in AC...

I see the same 5 or 6 people commenting on KZread and on RaceDepartment whenever AMS2 gets a mention ( see below... ), that particular sim seems to be a lightning rod. Used to be ACC vs iRacing but that seems to have died off a bit. Drives me nuts tbh. I reckon they all got banned from the forums of the sim they dislike. My rule now is not to waste my time engaging with them, I'd rather use that time being positive about the sims I do like ( which actually is most of them ). Some I like more than others, but most of them bring something to the table.

haha PES vs FIFA, classic. I think we have always been tribal when it comes to similar brands, I remember arguing in the playground over Sonic vs Mario, then Tekken vs Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil vs Silent Hill etc. Blur vs Oasis. There is usually one that comes out on top. Cant argue with iRacings longevity, although something will eventually replace it.

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

And the only correct answers I can tolerate are: Mario, Street Fighter, Resident Evil, Blur. End of story. 😂

@JC_303

6 ай бұрын

@@Ben_LaBroca no need to be so tribal about it mate! 😂

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

@@JC_303 🤣🤣

Great topic! Ultimately, we all want the best experience our hard earned dollars can buy. But we dont all want the same experience. Many want an experience as accurate to driving a real multimilion dollar vehicle as possible. Putting hours and hours into learning to drive and handle those physics defined characteristics. Others want to hop into something that's kinda close. A simulator experience as familiar and forgiving as the daily driver. The individual joy is there no matter which approach you favor. The tribalism begins when we begin to say one experience is more valid than the other. When those different sim-racing expectations combine with the diversity of driving rigs and simulaters, and interact in a community, that, at this point, doesnt have a universally shared set of goals, experiences, expectations or language. We're just a bunch of folks who like to drive pretend cars. It's up to all of us, to learn more about the hobby and to be accepting of the how the different kinds of enthusiasts want to learn and interact in the hobby. Influencers and spaces like Discord give us an opportunity to bring up all the good things about a variety of sims and community expectations. Ongoing conversations like this one, where at least for a moment, people check in with each other and try to hear what's being said for realsies, make a difference. Also, and lastly, I think market forces the desire/need of the sim-racing game developers to differentiate themselves from each other. In a niche market like sim-racing, this is going to sort itself out in the kinds of simulater games that are offered. Tribalism is also different from passionate feedback. As a consumer, it's really difficult to know who's in it just for the money, who's struggling to get by, and who is laser focused on improving product -- for which market - to what business plan? Maybe tribalism becomes a bigger tribe and less factionalized as all the things;Rigs, equipment, physics engines, Graphics, Computing power, and affordability improve. But mostly, we gotta listen to each other and try to communicate our thoughts in a way people will want to listen to what we have to say.

I went to an Indycar race this last summer and talked to a complete stranger about iRacing. I've never played iRacing in my life, but I was just genuinely happy to hang out and talk with somebody who shares my hobby.

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Ah mate that’s great! Separately, attending an IndyCar race is absolutely on my bucket list!

@Burl_Hurlbutt

6 ай бұрын

@@Ben_LaBroca Oh man it was great, definitely recommend it! I went to the Portland race, and it almost had a trackside festival sort of thing going on. Various local merchant stalls and food vendors, a lot of fun!

Excellent idea for a video. The silly thing about it all is that none of the sims are good at everything. Sure, AMS2 might have a more forgiving handling model, or iR might have better multiplayer, but who is to say which of those is better? Depends what you like. Personally I play them all (except iR) because it depends what I'm looking for on a given day.

Humans are naturally tribal. It’s in our nature. Some people have managed to move beyond the mentality of “You’re either with us, or against us.” Others haven’t. Add in those that may not be tribal, but can’t let what they see as inaccurate information go unchallenged, and you’ve got a bar-room brawl.

Great video mate. I think you're right, we should be celebrating steps forward on all platforms, even if we don't race there, as it can only be good for the hobby. Like you, I dip in and out of a lot of different SIM racing platforms, and I enjoy them all for different reasons. Either way, gatekeeping how people have fun has always seemed weird to me. It's natural that you would want to attract more racers to your chosen platform, but dumping all over their chosen platform is not the way to go about it!

Great points made! There are some sims I've spent the bulk of my time in, but I have most of them (including Rennsport) on my PC. Tribalism seems futile as I can see pros and cons of each. There's also "sunk cost fallacy" where people stick with a sim they're no longer having fun in, maybe due to boredom or recent bad online races, just because they've paid for it and/or practiced for hundreds of hours. It's ok to dip into a different series in a different sim for a while to clear your head.

I got to the conclusion that every sim out there (the ones I played, or the ones I've not, but based on the users opinion) fail at something, be it physics or product wise, when compared to each other. My aproach is to simply play them as they are, enjoy their strenghts and try to have te best experience I can personaly have. My time is too short to fight over others about how a thing that i honestly don't have even a clue about how it should be is more or less real here than there.

@RacingAnt

6 ай бұрын

That becomes frustrating when you try and help others pick a sim that they will enjoy based on strengths / weaknesses of each sim, and the tired old tribal arguments then destroy the discussion 😢

When people with zero real world experince say their favourite sim is the most realistic, I ignore them. I'd rather take the word of notable real world drivers over people with no experience. But just because the majority of drivers seem to say iRacing is the most realistic, it doesn't mean it's the best for everyone. Just look at AMS2's LMDh cars vs iRacing's. The iRacing version is a bit more on edge and easier to lose control of. If you want to drive an LMDh and can control the car in iRacing, that's great. But if you can't control it, that's no fun and you are probably better off picking up the AMS2 LMDh pack even if it's "less realistic". Or maybe even look into getting Le Mans Ultimate if that comes out next month as that might have a physics model that suits you better. I just setup someone I know with a rig and GT7. That's not realistic by any means, but its what was right for him and forcing iRacing on him would have been a **** move on my part.

I think it attracts a large number of people who want to be involved in professional motorsport but aren't able to for whatever reasons. It supercedes the enjoyment of driving or fun and leans on who can make themselves seem like the *true* motorsport devotee. The gloves, the loadcells, the button boxes, and the telemetry displays turns the activity into an identity that some wrap themselves into like a robe and lord over the casuals and gamers. How dare I play a sim racing game in chase cam, on automatic transmission, AND have fun at the same time.

People bicker so much about the smallest things XD. I personally iRacing is my go-to. While it is a large investment, I love the competitive environment and the endurance/oval racing. I also love AMS2 for its rain, how fun it is to drive, and a large collection of the more obscure cars and tracks. AC is also fantastic for the massive database of mods and it also feels great to drive most cars. My TLDR is that they are all great games! Just enjoy it all and dont be an arse to others because they have a disagreement!

To me it is a battle of the mansplainers (and admittedly I am a card-carrying member of that organization). I go with the sim that resonates with me at the time, and surprisingly that shifts constantly.

Excellent point and I’m glad you’ve made the video. One point I’d like to make (and this is no way aimed at yourself! I really like the positive and fun attitude you bring) is that of the role of the influencer. Let’s take AMS2s recent update. Lots of people have tried it and some have enjoyed it. It’s been nice to see various YTers make videos and critique it in a good faith way. I thought your video was like that, Stephen Bailey had some streams like that and Nils Neudolvic (sp?) also made a couple of insightful videos which brought various talking points to the community. Such videos were even discussed with developers in the community and they welcomed the feedback. A good in-depth discussion was triggered which I think is the best outcome and why the majority of sim racing content makers create. Then there’s the flipside. Let’s take an example of a YTer who very much have a favoured sim, which is completely fine, but then will stoke, engage and this profit from division and bullying. GamerMuscle is probably the worst for this. Every single update he returns to the title, makes the same comments stating the superiority of his opinion based on one or two driving experience days, despite not even having a drivers license. There’s no admission that he’ll have a limited viewpoint like the vast majority of us like you elude to. Always the attitude he’s always 100% right and basically the technical genius of our generation. The arrogance is astounding. What is worse is him then insulting the players of the sim he doesn’t like, insulting their mental health continually (saying they’re drop on their heads, concussed, saying their depressed therefore wrong, soft in the head etc etc). This is otherwise known as bullying basically. To make things even worse, he’ll wade into his own comment sections harassing viewers who state simple things such as “I like the game, as I also like the game you like, a person can like both”. I don’t think this is healthy, or likely to do anything than inflame people (personally insulting peoples mental health is low, and frankly unbecoming in a community which generally is very supportive of mental health and the like). If someone doesn’t like something why keep going back to it? When a major streamer with 80k subscribers is making a living over insulting and bullying a games userbase and encouraging his community to do the same, we have a real problem. There’s zero need to for a streamer to play games they don’t like unless you are deliberately trying to profit off stoking conflict for views. Hate fuelled media cycle in action. The retort is always that it’s hard to criticize anything, calling the viewer to self critique (fine) without reflection in themselves and what they are contributing to the scenario. What I am encouraged by is that the majority of streamers aren’t doing this and focusing on playing and streaming games they want to play. It makes good content and is positive and uplifting for the community. Feedback is offered but it is grounded. I feel there’s a growing realization that the sims are all much closer to one another than people realize, and that their differences are at a point of personal taste. I’ve just used AMS2 and GamerMuscle as the example as it’s one I’ve seen up close. I’ve seen others do similar things with other titles.

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Ah mate I don’t follow GMs videos but yeah personally I don’t really make videos unless there’s something good to say - I figure there’s enough negativity in the world already. One recent video I loved was Nils on yaw and slip angle - that was super interesting and well made I thought. And I agree re similarities between titles. I’ve long found AMS 2 to generally feel a bit like rF2 in its tendency towards oversteer, with RaceRoom, ACC etc being a bit more understeery. Thanks for watching and engaging!

@kralikdoribunny5615

6 ай бұрын

GamerMuscle became absolutely unbearable.

@tacticalnuclearpingutv290

6 ай бұрын

@@HellDiverNG I’m actually shocked if that’s why he’s doing what he’s doing. How massively unprofessional and quite frankly crappy for the wider community.

This is an argument as long as time :) I remember the same type of arguments during the F12002 and GP4 days. Ultimately, the more sims the better - it pushes everyone to improve. And as much as I absolutely loathe the Codemasters F1 series, the really fast drivers are fast in all sims.

@thrasherdave1428

6 ай бұрын

Yeah competition is good for the industry. If you have one game/company dominating or monopolizing the whole industry for too long it will inevitably get worse and worse because there's no financial incentive for the company to make better games

I see it as "player bought the idea" that a sim is realistic and "perfect" or "as close to perfection as it can get" for whatever the reason (as in "professional teams use the same engine" what is wrong, use the "improved base for their inhouse engines" not the same "engine that is based off of the base of what these prrofessional F1 teams use" . . or as in "somee professionala ssaid it is realistic or use this sim so it must be realistic") and whateever drives diffferently from that sim of choice is wrong and unrealistic. Also the people that goes by "iff it is easy it iss not realistic" or "if it dont spin it is not realistic" or "if speeds/lap-times dont match it is not realistic", etc, etc... It is not just "FFB" and "the importance of justifying the investiment" or even "feeeling part of the comunity", it is a bought up idea that a cceertain sim is realistic and anything out of that scope is wrong by default.

The Simpsons Hit And Run is the most realistic racing sim. Anyone who disagrees can eat my shorts!

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Ay Carumba! Hey did you see someone has completely remade that game to run on modern systems??

@fwracinguk

6 ай бұрын

@@Ben_LaBroca yeah think it was reubs remade it in unreal 5

i blame content creators like Ben.... absolutely tribal ;) seriously, it's like anything, mention something even remotely negative about anything and you'll get them coming out swinging! you can't even be subjective about it with some creators. they end up on a rant about subjectiveness! I play pretty much all the sims at one time or another throughout the year, i have my favourites, and can see the good and bad in all sims/games. cracking vid Ben.

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Hey hey hey - I treat all sims the same…reflecting the fact that I’m equally slow in each of them! 😂

@brianeast9081

6 ай бұрын

@@Ben_LaBroca you say you're slow but you're still faster than me

Well done mate.. It's nice to see someone say this. We can only benifit from good competition between racing sims. It stops the developers from sitting on there hands for too long.

Good point about them all being a WIP. So should never get set in any opinion. The iRacing I drove in 2014 is very different to today etc.

@eXtricRacing

6 ай бұрын

And for the record I would change between PSE and FIFA often.

I have quite a few hobbies, and it’s just the mindset these days. Every community I’ve ever been a part of love measuring their birds.

Today we are living in times where players comically can't handle criticism of a game that they enjoy. Game devs can't handle criticism from players even if it's constructive and justified. As a veteran gamer I know what racing sims I enjoy and what racing sims that I don't enjoy and why and I'm very comfortable with that. I don't need validation from people on social-media that I don't know. The Sim racing "community" is the most toxic and tribal compared to any other game genre. In terms of social-media it's similar to Premier League Football fans which is totally ridiculous for niche computer-game genre. I feel most sim racers are very insecure and reactionary. The crazy arms race to get the best sim racing hardware or the best mods I've never understood. There seems to be unnecessary pressure all-round when it should be just casual fun.

I'd defend I racing if I had spent 1000 bucks on it. Thankfully, I'm not stupid.

Thanks for this timely reality check. With the latest batches of improvements of AMS2 and its potential contention to becoming king of the uphill (yes, pan intended) it seems to have brought up a 2nd kind of racing, that of user opinions. The point about all of us benefiting from competition is so true. Imagine where we'd be had not there been so many great titles out there. And each pushes the other into improving. Take physics for instance: can't think of a bigger challenge than to try to reproduce a mechanical device into digital pixels in a way that resembles the real deal. And it is great to see all of these companies devoting so much resources and creativity into bringing us the best possible experience. Take online racing for instance - despite it not scoring high on my radar, it's great to see the pressure on these companies to improve on that department. That's one the things that I think iRacing does so well, which puts pressure on the other titles to do better, which in turn benefits all of us (and may actually get me into becoming an enthusiast, adding value to my investment) So yeah, why can't we all just realize that we share a common passion and should be grateful for some of the fun experiences this genre bring us? Hell, if we're gonna argue and demean others, why not pick on the World of Warcraft crowd?

@mikecroshaw9233

6 ай бұрын

Agreed. AMS2 has gained a lot of love lately, but also a lot of hate from fans of other sims. Really, I think we should welcome progress in any of the sims. More players for AMS2 probably means it's pulling in people from other places who might also play your own favourite sim. Lets face it, most of us play more than one sim.

I will play whatever takes my fancy at a particular time. We cannot live life being completely beholden to a single sim, you'll drive yourself bonkers. Just have fun and play what you enjoy, as it doesn't matter really whether its iRacing, AMS2, ACC, rFactor2, Forza, Gran Turismo or the F1 games, as at the end of the day they are all still racing games that we are meant to enjoy in our spare time.

Because people paying through the nose for something cannot accept when something without a monthly subscription charge is just as good if not better!

In the end It's just a game so have some fun. No matter what the sim if it's fun for you that's what matters the most. When I'm at my camp I don't have a wheel and peddles so I race world of outlaws on a controller It's still fun.

Well said, my man. Well said indeed. Thanks for being here!

Excellent, merci ! 😎

Really good video!👍 But ahaha ))) it was a joke about the 18th century in iR (partially) But in serious, it is all a matter of personal choice and taste. I do have some Sunday racing experience, and would say that even Gran Turismo (so called sim cade in community, hate this word) gives you decent lessons of how this or that car behave on track, and how tracks itself feels like when racing on them . They all teach you and give feelings (except bloody Forza of course), so, it's main point of sim racing. And FUN, which is most important after all , is unique for each user. The rest is the matter of taste

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Haha it was too funny a comment not to include! Thanks for watching buddy!

So well put 👍🏻

nice vid👍

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Thanks buddy!

I would like to hope that one day as a community we can just get past all the tribalism and the arguing and just let people enjoy their sims how they want to. I fully understand and appreciate that people pick different sims for different reasons and want different results to come out from their experiences. However I just don't understand why there is a need to be combative with others for no reason other than to upset people. A rising tide lifts ALL boats and we should try to lift each other up instead of trying to sink them. Drive what car you want to drive, on what track you want and enjoy yourself that's surely all that matters.

Personally I just want to enjoy racing and different cars. I'd rather spend the time driving than arguing what sim is "obviously superior"

My first question is: if the so-called "sim" we play every day are not used by any team why do we call them sim and not accept that are, basically what they are, "games"? Second question why no manifacturer play this hyper-realistic "sims" and instead build multi-millionare in-house sims? Third question: the top 10 teams in the world simulate with their multimillionare sims the new F1 rules in 2022 and the only one that predicted porpoising was Red Bull but non the base of a computer simulation but rather on the experience their designer had in the 80's and a car that was built on a paper sheet? Can we please accept that even the most advanced sim in the world can't properly simulate the real life experience? If we are able to accept it, can we enjoy our games as they are?

@shaunsheppard3936

6 ай бұрын

I don't know about anyone else, but while we can't accurately replicate real life driving, I still look for a SIM that allows me to build a skill that can in some way transfer to real life should I ever get the opportunity. For example, like many people, I like to go karting with friends every so often. I've found that since racing in iRacing that my braking in karts has improved. I feel I've got finer control of the brakes then I had in the past, which has improved my lap times.

The issue is that every sim fights for participation, our niche is pretty small. You can see that with AMS2 diehards who post eveywhere that people should try it so that they can finally enjoy their favorite game online. I personally don't think this engine has anything to do with real car behavior (not race cars, any cars, any moving physics really), so when new people ask where to start I generally advice them to go for ACC or iRacing. I don't want them to waste their time and money like I did with Project Cars 2 which also had a diehard community but was absolute dogshit in my opinion, so bad it made me almost quit sim racing. If we really want to make the topic about how a real racecar feels, I guess we have to trust real race drivers and where they put their time. I've seen Gabriele Mini, Frederik Vesti, Enzo Fiitipaldi, Will Power, Max Verstappen and many others in iRacing lately, I never see them play anything else. While I personally do think ACC and AC are good competitors physics-wise and have an equal online service in LFM nowadays, there's probably a reason no real race driver uses it. If it was that much better, they'd just race there, they're no idiots with tech. If they can setup 100 year old iRacing with all the extra tools they can also sign up to LFM. But they don't.

What debate? ProEvo was way better.....jokes! Great video, touchy subject , well covered!

This thing seems to happen in every hobby. I've also been into model railroads and the rivalry between running AC or DC systems is like a religious war. In sim racing I enjoy several titles equally. AMS2 looks great, has great content and is so easy to jump into. I love AC for all the great mods, but I think Rf2 gives me some of the most intense ai racing in the good old super tourers mods. Raceroom feels great too! The only reason I don't play ACC is because I have no interest in modern GT and iRacing is too expensive for me. I love RBR too! I must admit I was very disappointed with EA Wrc as that game handles in a way I just do not enjoy which was a shame as I am a huge rally fan... but then that's it. I really don't get why some people find it important to join every fb group or discussion about a game just to tell all the people who enjoy it why they are wrong. Seems really pointless to me

My humble opinion: The whole question should be, which racing sim is the most enjoyable to use? The whole experience, not just the driving part? This drops for example "the ancient king of physics hill" off right away. I've owned it before its Steam days BUT don't brother using it, because it leaves me with an unpleasant feeling of not being nerdy enough to use it. These are computer games after all, like it or not. Something to do when having free time. Succesful game design is very difficult. Not just engineering, it's also psychology 😅

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

If I’m following you properly I totally agree - it baffles me that more sims are not able to be good video games as well as simulations! The user experience and lack of stuff to do and progress is often terrible compared to how it could be!

@axzyzzen

6 ай бұрын

@@Ben_LaBroca YES bro, let's hope for the better

@kralikdoribunny5615

6 ай бұрын

@@Ben_LaBrocaTrouble is, when sims introduce game elements, simracers start screaming "It's not a sim" ... and nothing (realistic physics or whatever) will change their minds.

We may be tribal, but we all stand united, when it comes to telling arcade racing fans, that we are superior, because we play the game with the higher difficulty level! 😂

The thing is, considering there is no story and thus no inherent reason to chose one sim over another, there is fierce competition among all sims because they're more "platforms" than "games". That means when we prefer one sim over another, we think it's for objective and unbiased reasons as opposed to "I personally like the story/the characters" which can't really be debated. It's like for productivity software, there is no definite winner because they all do the same thing but every single one of them will have one flaw that isn't found in others. And we have to chose one if we want to get good at it. I wish we had better rally games but here we are, 3/4 games with massive flaws in each one and if you wanna get really competitive you can't play them all.

Pro Evo for life, shame they ditched it :(

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Ah mate a travesty really - it was so superior around the time of PES 5 / 6!

@thrasherdave1428

6 ай бұрын

Yeah now it's called Efootball or, if they were honest, football my ass

@mattjones1207

6 ай бұрын

@Ben_LaBroca ​Remember the one with Collina on the front, what a legend! haha, bet Mike Dean is annoyed he never got that treatment

It's not just games that get the bickering treatment, console vs console gets it too. And console vs PC. And I bet loads of non-gaming hobbies get the same behaviour from fans. I think some of it comes down to protecting your investment of time and money. If you put so much of yourself into your hobby, it becomes important to believe that you've made the right decisions, you've picked the right side, especially if switching to an alternative is not feasible due to lack of money or time. Thinking that you've wasted that investment would probably be pretty upsetting, so let's have a fight online instead.

PES was better than fifa, No doubts there 😂

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Castello, Minanda and Ximenes were my closest childhood friends 😂

@TroyDann

6 ай бұрын

You can’t leave out Dodo the hard man with lovely hair.

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

@@TroyDann haha great shout!

I don't have a favorit som, but if I did it would be raceroom. And I don't think any Sim is the best, but if I did it would be raceroom. ❤

I really love the argument that iRacing has the best multiplayer and that make it the best sim. I think that says a lot of it. Racing is people on track not getting similar driver skills togheter on track. For matchmaking i use LFM

Some people are just completely unable to be subjective and get very upset when any negative points are put in front of them.

Good topic, however IMHO it comes down to basic human behaviours and is definitely not restricted to racing sims. Insecurity, envy, and jealousy are likely the most common attributes to explain this. We know the level of each of these is based on each individual. And humans demonstrate these qualities at a very young age so it is likely both environmental and genetically coded. Each of us also has a different value system that naturally brings differing opinions to the discussion. We are an extremely complex animal.

Does anyone else think that the ffb in project cars 2 is a random sequence of vibrations? 😅 I'm member of GTR2 tribe 😅

I’m a complete sim tart and I use each sim for what it does best. There’s no such thing as the best sim, each sim does something amazing and also does something really poorly. You adapt to each sim, some sims you regularly play because they tick your boxes and some sims you hardly touch because they don’t. The truth is no sim is realistic at all, but they are super immersive simulations presented via a static rig of a sport we can’t afford to participate in IRL. It does make me laugh watching the easily unhinged nerds using google copy n pasted data to debate and argue with each other, whether it be arguing over games, dlc or hardware.

I don't really care for the debate of which is better, most true SIMS are pretty good, even of one might be slightly more realistic in some aspects than others. For me personally, I look at the real life drivers and look at what they are predominantly driving to gauge how "realistic" it is (or rather how "transferrable" the experience is to real life). Most NASCAR drivers, many Indycar drivers, and even WDC Max Verstappen seem to prefer iRacing, which is more than enough endorsement for me.

No sim is anywhere near realistic having been fortunate to have enjoyed both. People just need to do what they enjoy and let others do what they enjoy without being bitchy!

I enjoy switching between AMS2, iRacing, AC and now some ACC...and they are all very different. Which ones best...totally depends what mood I'm in.

Hit the nail on the head.

I play them all for different reasons. I play titles I think are bad just to hang out with mates. I play full sims for the realism. I play others for the content (mods). I could tell you what's the most realistic game and who does the realistic sound and so on but 80% of you will be very upset. The truth is none are realistic by design. How many times have you been stuck in a gravel trap? How many times have you hit the esc key after binning it? How many times has there been a consequence for your bad driving? A couple of clicks on the setup screen would take an hour in real life. Zero realism. The truth is they are all toys designed to keep us entertained. Just play what ever you like and remember your favourite is no better.

People can be tribal about anything. How often would you say you get into a discussion about which teabags are best? Absolutely tribal!

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Danny! Thanks so much for stopping by buddy - enjoyed your videos for a long time! (Down with Tetley!)

@dannyleeracing

6 ай бұрын

@@Ben_LaBroca I vouch for Co-op Fairtrade £1 for 80 teabags - Thank me later. Love your videos, you work hard!

Video starts at 3:00

Sim racing is like the thousands of different religions where wars have been fought over whose invisible friend is better than someone else’s invisible friend. In this case it’s whose made up game is better. But in the end it doesn’t matter as long as on Sunday we all worship the gods of speed.

@BG_36

6 ай бұрын

@@gentlemandriversimracing5904 I guess the irony of your reply is lost on you when you say you just want to be left to worship in peace but what do all religious types do when told by another religious sim racer that their religious game is false and you must worship their god of speed? Well of course you religious types fight back and go to war on your keyboards exclaiming how your sim is the one true sim and there is proof because the creators have said so in their bibles of speed.

@BG_36

6 ай бұрын

Besides ACC is Italian which is close to the Vatican so it must be the best.

We all know the top 5 or 6 sims out there and they all do certain things better than everything else, these stand head and shoulders above games like Forza, GT and the F1 series. I racing holds zero interest for me as I'm not heavily into multiplayer and their pricing policy stinks. For the most part I'm looking for great A.I. fun and choice when it comes to sim titles and AMS 2 provides that in bucket loads. I very much enjoy the other top sims but AMS 2 constantly grabs all the time i can spare. AC, ACC and Rfactor will always remain on my system but I'm not sure if or when I will revisit them, simply because the A.I. in these titles cannot compare to the A.I. in AMS 2.

Mario kart is the best sim

@Ben_LaBroca

6 ай бұрын

Brendon! Thanks for stopping by the channel buddy - watched many of your F1 vids! And actually I think you’ll find it’s Diddy Kong Racing…

@BrendonLeigh

6 ай бұрын

@@Ben_LaBroca watched plenty of your content bud! Your video style was actually the inspiration for my iracing willpower video last week 💪 Ahahahah let’s have a sim show down and finally find the true sim king 🤣

It's simple... we're all becoming more like Americans and their political environment... pick a side, defend it until the grave, or get the **** out. 😅

Tribalism is every where I think. Look at the car scene and how people talk about other peoples preferences. The internet intensifies things like that. Realism goes only so far and maybe you can only really talk about that in a motion setup with VR. I am driving in my Chesterfield type chair 😅 single screen. I never driven a racing car flat out on a track. What do I know about that. Feel with real car is also different. I never drive my car hard through corners like in the sim. I just want to feel what the car is doing and being able to correct. What I use is mainly based on budget 💰

At the end, iRacing is the best ;)

It called human nature

Yeah it’s a bit tribal, everyone has their own opinion and modern generations have lost the ability to disagree and that be ok. However there is a distinct overreaction from content creators - for example your opening quote about Iracing being “ridiculously expensive and looking pretty naff” isn’t anything more than a fair criticism. So it’s as much about people being too easily offended at an opinion they don’t agree with as it is with just being able able to accept that no sim is perfect, they all offer differing things. Also if the Iracing fanboys truly cared about physics they’d all be playing RF2 or OG AC. 😮

IVE BEN HUFFING IRACING COPIUM AFTER 1000K INVESTMENT 😂😂😂

Never seen an iracer criticising other sims. Always people who have never been on iracing giving their opinions on how iracing it's not worth it, and they're never polite about it

@mikecroshaw9233

6 ай бұрын

If you look a bit further down the comments section on this video you will witness the tedium of a pair of iRacers criticising AMS2. You see, it doesn't take much effort to find them really.

@NguyenNguyen-fe3gm

6 ай бұрын

@@HellDiverNG that depends what you mean by criticism. I don’t know enough about either sim racing or real life racing to make a comparison, but those who do generally say iRacing is the closest to real life feel. Would you call that a criticism? I don’t think wether iRacing is more “realistic” or not matters. It’s an abstract measurement just like a sim’s “betterness” comparing to another, and it’s completely subjective(some people find F1 games in T cam too brutally realistic lol). I think many non iracers take these comparisons as criticism, which they shouldn’t be As for the pricing, I’m not gonna defend iRacing and ask it to take more of my money, but according to the veteran iracer/youtuber Justin Yee, they weren’t profitable until 2020. Scanning tracks and building cars in collab with manufacturerslike Dallara, AMG cost money. When you’re in sim racing you’re in a money pit, I’m in the camp that prefer to pay once cry once and not worrying about if I want more, though I understand that not everyone can have this luxury.

@NguyenNguyen-fe3gm

6 ай бұрын

@@mikecroshaw9233 there will always be people like that unfortunately. These people are as anti non-iRacing sims as they are anti sim racing. I’m not on AMS2 but more accessible content is always good news for sim racing. What I mean is in neutral environment like general sim racing forums, the anti iRacing hysteria is extremely high, most of the time unsolicited (comments that are completely unrelated to the post). And you can rarely find them on iRacing or at best last connected over 6 years ago.

@mikecroshaw9233

6 ай бұрын

@@HellDiverNG totally agree with you on the fun part. I find the SR stuff in iRacing pretty stressful as well. One bad race, which might not be my fault at all, and I have to spend 3 more races being super cautious and not really racing properly to get that SR back. It's not that much fun tbh and I caught myself wondering "why am I doing this" more than once. I don't seem to get this stress from other online systems, LFM has been fine, and so was RaceControl.

Thats just the human nature I guess

iRacing should be left to the serious drivers who want to win and place well in the Season standings for whatever series they are driving in. If you just want to race for fun, don't put much practice in, or are simply just not good at racing, you should be on Forza or Gran Turismo. Leave the monthly subscription sim to the serious people who want to win. If you have the "It's just a game" mentality, stop sim racing altogether and play Minecraft or some stupid shit like that.

Iracing is expensive... Yes , is it good ... yes , it has flaws ... yes - AMS2 is it Good .... Yes , Has Flaws .... Yes , AC and ACC, are they good .... Yes , Have Flaws .... Yes.... , RBR is it good .... yes . Has Flaws .. yes and i am one of them 🤣🤣 . Dirt 2 is it good ... Yes . Has flaws.... yes . Just play what you like and have fun doing so

Great vid, I loved ams2 until I got sucked into the wow of sim racing "iracing" now I feel it's counter-productive to drive in any other sim as the handling models so different.

@shaunsheppard3936

6 ай бұрын

I feel the same way. If you spend a fair amount of time in iRacing, then AMS2 simply feels wrong, you need to have a completely different driving style, which I always fear will hurt me when I go back to iRacing. On the other hand, I don't seem to have any issue switching between iRacing, ACC and RF2, it's only AM2 that I have an issue with.

@mikecroshaw9233

6 ай бұрын

I have no problem switching between iRacing and AMS2. They have the same basic principles. Same with RF2. ACC is the outlier for me, with the way you brake. I switch quite often between AC, RF2, iRacing and AMS2. AMS2 is a bit more forgiving on the slip angle, but the skills I pick up in one sim transfer easily to the others.

im guilty of this in your ams 2 lemans vid. arguing that iracing is superior in every way instead of realizing that people just want to have fun. end of the day we all drive pretend cars.

Capitalism, marketing, branding, and the innate tendency of humans to form into like-minded groups are the problem. The bottom line is that your choice of SIM is generally down to whether it has cars and tracks in it that you want to drive or feel a certain brand loyalty to. After that it's often just presentational as 90% of SIM racers have no idea what it's like to drive an actual race car, as it's nothing like what you feel from a sim setup. You miss 95% of the forces you actually feel from a real car experience, the majority of which do not come via the steering wheel but from other forces acting upon your body in a physical and sensory way.

I think a major contributor is the Stockholm syndrome that I-Racing's pricing model creates. Even if you grow bored or start to dislike it, you have to keep paying your tithe or you lose all the money you've invested over the years. This leads people to be far more driven to defend the sim - and their own investment - from any criticism. It would all be solved if I-Racing allowed you to play with your purchased content offline for free. I gave up on ACC but I can always drop back in if I feel like it and that's not something you can do with i-racing. Not only does this drive the ill tempered discourse in the community but it stops other publishers from adding paid multiplayer services into their games for fear of I-Racing comparisons, which leads to half-baked ranked modes like Raceroom or the LFM's and Racecrafts and all the faff that comes with them. Basically, I-Racing ruins sim racing.

@fingers68

6 ай бұрын

After spending £500.00+ over the last 3 years, then learning the subs cover everything and you cant even use the cars n tracks "purchased" and that you apparently "own" off line. I have canceled my subs, at what point do you let go of the rope of the rising balloon. I am astonished they get away with using these terms "purchase" and "you own", neither are true.

@Xerxes1337

6 ай бұрын

Yeah it's the sunk cost fallacy. They also think it's good because expensive. Sure it's a good sim but I don't like driving on eggshells and spinning the moment I go over the optimal slip angle.

This topic comes down to two points: 1. After spending 1000s of hours in a racing sim people will want to defend that time invested to the death 2. iRacing is objectively the best the sim out there but people won't stop crying about the monetization model

Simracing isn't tribal. Everyone agees ACC & AC are the best sims to go to. LFM got the best stewards and ACC & AC are way better under braking then iRacing and better at trailbraking & Netcode then anything else :D But i like other Simcades tho.