Everybody needs a Tamby

Keep knocking them down, my brother. You'll get there. Much love! -J (oh, btw, I call it a rudder post housing)

How about investigating a different style of rudder stuffing box assembly that could slip over the rudder(fiberglass) tube and have a closer tolerance ID for where the rudder stock rides. It may(will!) require some custom machine work/fabrication. This way you get some solid support for the upper rudder stock and keep the water out. If you do nothing else, however, drop that rudder while you're still on the hard and take a hard look at the whole assembly. You'll sleep real good knowing you covered that base.

I was going to leave a nasty troll comment… like the one you left on my last video. However, after seeing your Mike I don’t have the heart. If Mike isn’t busy next weekend…. We’ve got some boat projects. 😊 Great job knocking them projects out. -C

This may have been mentioned, but I think tightening the packing gland on the rudder shaft might fix the leak and the clunk. The packing didn't look bad but replacing it would be simple vs trying to put in shims that would be so thin. Crushing the packing more would center the shaft and stop the leak seems to me.

Liked the subscribe! On the engine panel.

Does team Mike rent themselves out ? Asking for a friend 🤣be blessed😇

I'm LEAKING the truth.😉 I love your channel, so don't be surprised if I come KNOCKING for a visit. Are you three coming to the Annapolis Boat Show this year?

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! 🥰 No, I think we’re going to have to stay focused on our projects. It’s quite a haul for us as well, and having already made nearly 25 trips round trip to the boat so far, we’re a bit reluctant for more road trips. Lol. Come a knockin! We’d love to see you.

Very thoughtful for Mike and his wife to stop in and help a bit. Mike seems like a really good guy. Loved the video.

Grease fitting 👍

You should be able to get a "Speedi sleeve" that will fit over the shaft from a bearing supply, they are thin stainless steel sleeves used to repair worn seal faces on shafts just tight slide on with some green loctite and the gap will be taken up, also with new seals the play may be taken out as well. At the end of the video you showed a side view of the boom over the bimini looks like you could just extend the boom gallows and keep the bimini headroom. She's coming along nicely enjoy

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the idea on the sleeve. The taller gallows would only be helpful when motoring only. Without additional adjustments, the first tack would swipe the whole bimini, dodger, and probably ole Cap'n Ben into the ocean.

Mike is a diplomat . He chose his terms carefully. As to the retrieval/procurement method for the bimini enclosure, he did not choose to use the terms pirated , lifted or snatched . Rescued would also be a good word to store away for future acquisition operations . ;)

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

I actually had to look up the word "purloined", the he used.

@gregoryfranklin5108

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory I couldn't spell it and was a bit iffy on the pronunciations. I knew what it meant so I must have been awake in at least one class . That was a great video !

What a great guy Mike is to come down and help you out! I am assuming they came down in their RV, giving all of you a nice place to rest your body in a comfortable place each night, yes? Mike's bimini story was very interesting indeed. Sounds like it was indeed salvaged off of a sunken boat that would sail no more. The old instrument cover is ready for some refitting, but did you cover up the unshielded gauges before you headed home? And another question is your plan for the swing around navigation arm. Are you going to continue with that or is there another plan sir? For an old fart, I sure am nosey aren't I ? Just living vicariously through you kids and this major refit. I always look forward to each posting because you put your heart & soul into them, plus I enjoy your "sick" humor!

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Mike and Rhea slept in their RV, I slept on the boat. I'm going to install a RAM mount to hold the chartplotter where that funky contraption was. It was a set up that we really like on Sandflea, so we're doing the same on this boat too. Happy to hear that you approve of my humor, weird as it is. 🤪

@mikedugan2921

Жыл бұрын

It was a great pleasure to help Ben,Tambi, and Molly get a little bit closer to their dream of sailing again. “Red” as well as Lucy and Margarita look forward to having our wakes cross pin the future. And if anything breaks that I fixed it wasn’t my fault!!!!!! It was the HEAT!

@desertedenblooms

Жыл бұрын

@@mikedugan2921 💙🐾🍹to all your crew

I would glass some thin cloth on the inside of tube and use a flap wheel to fit post, fabricating a dumby post of same size to fit . Did it on my boat ,no play in 5 years

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

What we ended up doing is using something called teflon film, we shimmed up the inside of the tube and folded the pieces over like flower petals. The hose clamps that hold the stuffing box in place are also holding the petals down on the outside. No play with the boat on the hard, but we'll see how it does once we start sailing. I like your solution and considered something similar, but it it would require dropping the rudder to access the interior of the tube - something that we really wanted to avoid with all the other projects we had going on.

@Mechone11

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory Nice is it lasting ? I actually glassed kevlar cloth ,then some marine grease on shaft ,like I said no play in 5 years

It's always fun to look at your videos. And was good that Mike did help you. See you next time. Greetings from the Netherlands

Chances are the new flux pressed in and squeezed will take up the slack in the rudder tube. However in other boats Teflon sheets can be placed down there. Just cut the sheet so it won't overlap and slide it in.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Do you know of a video or link where someone has done that before? I wonder how well a super-thin sheet of that would hold up over time with the post grinding against it. The sheet would have to be quite thin - perhaps only 1/32".

@simplistiksoftware

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory So, Utude didn't like the links for the forums I posted showing and detailing it done on a Catalian380 group, Bavaria group, Beneteau group, my own post on Cruiserforum from 2 decades ago... But... Baking sheet teflon is enginered to a tolerance, it will be on the box. you can also purchase engineered sheets online. I thought it would bind as well but it doesn't. Just make sure it's not overlapping when you slide it down over the rudder shaft. The video below may help. You have better access from above.

@simplistiksoftware

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory I'll add one more... this works on boats without replaceable or rebuildable bearings. And don't ever put grease in there, it will stick and hold onto dirt and grit in the water and turn into sand paper. Teflon spray and sheets work well. Beneteau actually has a DIY article for owners on this. I left it on Redemption when I sold it, or I'd share it here. This is a pretty common repair.

they make brass stock shim for engine bearings. should be pretty cheap. .005 wrapped around shaft or butterfly around and bend over.should work. on line or NAPA should have them.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the idea!

Machined Delrin bearing is the solution. There is a guy in Indiantown that did this same thing for us on our Colvin Gazelle last year and he is quite a magician... I can look up his name if you are interested.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Was your rudder play situation similar to ours in that you had to fill a VERY small gap with the delrin bearing? I can make one, but I'm skeptical of how well a super-skinny, 1/32" or smaller, bearing would hold up against the constant back-and-forth grinding of the rudder shaft against it. How large was the gap you had to fill with the bearing?

@robertgarbe6348

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory We did a big bearing at the foot, and about a 1/16 thick inch sleeve at the stuffing box. If you have less maybe just replace the stuffing with good think flax. Maybe your construction is different, tho we were working with steel.

Given the obvious lack of maintenance in addition to redoing the packing on the rudder post I would be dropping the rudder and examining all the support points for wear. There are probably bushings that are worn out. That thin fiberglass tube may keep out the water but there is no way it controls the rudder post in any significant way which is why there is a rubber boot below the packing.

For the record: In order to create a snug fitt between the ruddershaft and the rudderpost you might have success with a grease gun and a a few grease nipples. The method require a release agent sprayed on a plastic film wrapped around the ruddershaft. The plastic film used having the desired thickness equal to the wanted play. A previously unused (wastable) grease gun. Grease nipples mounted fairly high. Gravity is your friend. A "flowout" protected seal at top of the post and at the bottom of the post. -Inject warm epoxi into the nipples filling the exess play void. This method will not work if there are irregularities, damages i.e, on the rudder shaft as those definitely will create an irregular surface in the post hole that in turn will give irregular resistance when the ruddershaft is turned during use. -Smoothing the surface on both shaft and post hole is a must! I used a circular steel brush (don't know what it is called in english for drilling machine) as "homing" of the rudder post hole gently before the repair to smoth the surface inside and make the surface accept the new epoxi so it will stick for ever. I my case I made a separate test modell before I fixed a larger wear damage and a crack. Small day sailer. I did this when the glasing over of the crack didn't fix the play. 1 Having a ruddershaft that turns is the purpose and not stuck forever (kind of silly have a rudder that is stuck...). 2 Wasn't shure I wanted to do this directly in the boat as the flowing of the epoxi might be uneven and it won´t so three nipples in 120 degree pattern around was needed. Gravity did the rest. Cleaning the grease gun with acetone didn't work. Two was needed. Use the shaft as a guide to smooth out epoxi onto the post surface wasn't an option due to the impressive play and abcens of support while curing. In your case this might be impossible due to rudder weight and a larger total surface inside the rudderpost. You also have a smaller play. In my opinion your play is ok and the seat of your seal isn't. A chime might be your best DIY solution. I didn't have a seat problem but for the record there are methods that might be useful in certain cases. Try to get a proper seal seat first before you do anything radical like I had to do. (And I lost the race the following weekend...)

@animapulcra9205

Жыл бұрын

@@saylaveenadmearedead True. The play wears the seal in the seat and if the play is small enough not to wear the seal manufacturer deside the boat is good for safe use. However when the post is worn the seal will age faster as movement in the seat wear and next there will be some type of function failure. I shared my experience as I had a vertical crack and made a first failed repair and completed it with a second repair with great success.

After you finish you can knock off for the day . .Nice job .Well done

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

You're too kind.

Everyone needs a Mike! What a great guy! I'm really curious how you're going to solve the knocking rudder problem.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, the knocking is still a bit of a conundrum. I think I might try repacking and installing a stiffer hose, but I doubt that will solve the knocking. Mike was a HUGE help. Another month of Mike's help and the boat would have been practically new.

Checking in on your progress. Looks like your getting it done. Keep up the good work! Cruising season is just around the corner. Cheers buddy.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Sure is. Wish you fellas could cruise with us. Fun times.

Great video! I often learn something from your videos. Looking forward to seeing it on the water. Do you have an estimated splash date yet?

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

We're thinking we might launch just after Thanksgiving and then head out right after Christmas. Still very undecided, but that's a loose plan right now.

Before you put the bimini tweaks on the back burner, hank the main on and see how it sets. Could be an issue.

Mike's are good. You guys are messing with us by changing places at the end.

I know exactly what you need to do with the rudder,, will tell you on FB. Great sweaty foggy video! ok, I just posted all you need to do on FB. You are good to go now.

There should be a rudder bearing between the shaft and the hull. That would be my primary suspect.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

There are 2 plastic rings in that location, but they're more of a spacer. They seem to only really limit vertical movement. They're not fixed in any way that would limit lateral movement of the shaft.

@TheCorsair

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory check with the Westsail owners group.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

I've posted twice about it. Bud suggested that the "Catalina Rudder Fix" could work, but he didn't know of anyone who has tried it. We have have to be the pioneers for this fix.

Repack the rudder stuffing box. That will reduce the leak to what it should be and act as the upper bearing for the shaft - i.e., get rid of the knock.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

The rudder's stuffing box isn't a bearing surface as the whole unit moves back and forth with the shaft since the rubber hose is flexible. I did repack with new flax, so at least the leak should be stopped, I hope.

@todddunn945

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory in that case you may have a cutless bearing where the shaft enters the hull that is worn and needs replacing. That will require dropping the rudder. If there isn't a cutless bearing, then you will likely need to drop the rudder, wax the shaft with 8-10 coats of mold wax, reinstall the rudder and pour graphite loaded epoxy into the shaft tube around the rudder stock. The graphite loaded epoxy will give a low friction bearing surface and the wax will keep the epoxy from bonding to the shaft.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Yep, that's the "Catalina Rudder Fix". I hope to not have to do that one. I've not been able to find anyone else with a Westsail that has done that fix, and I'd prefer not to be the pioneer, but it may come down to that eventually.

I Think when you tighten the packing up your knock will go away.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

That'd be nice. We'll see!

That movement on the rudder tube could be fixed with some metal shims, stainless or bronze. You might have to make them. But a few in place will center the rudder tube. The bigger question is whether or not that play is the source of your leak and not the packing material

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

With how much green there is between the 2 pieces of the stuffing box, I'm fairly confident that the leak was coming from the flax seal. Also, the compression screws didn't have any torque on them at all and came off easily by hand. They may have never been tightened, and that wouldn't surprise me in the least with some of the other oddball things we've found along the way.

I don’t know if anyone else has commented on this. Am I the only one who noticed the’’ SUBSCRIBE’’ on the closeup of the engine instrument panel. Inquiring minds want to know.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

You are one of 2 people who caught it. :)

Thinking greasing the rudder shaft area would stop additional wear and cushion the movement stopping the knock.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Mmm, I can't see that having any real positive effect, personally.

Typical fix for that rudder shaft knocking is to pack the gap with thickened epoxy with graphite, though first you would need to remove and wax the shaft so it doesn't adhere, then you use a syringe to inject the epoxy at several points. West System has a tutorial on this.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

Correct. That's the old "Catalina Rudder Fix". Could work, and might be what we have to eventually resort to.

@hansjensen7823

Жыл бұрын

I’m wondering how the wax on the rudder shaft doesn’t transfer to the tube when sliding it back up?

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

There's no way to avoid at least some transfer that I know of.

@colorocko1

Жыл бұрын

Great information. Thank you.

The knock is because the grease cords were hardened. The play is totally normal and once repacked, greased up and not overly tightenend all will be good.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

The entire stuffing box moves with the shaft because of the rubber hose, unfortunately.

Not sure if this will help with the knocking/movement on the rudder, but if I recall correctly, Drake Roberts had a similar issue when Paragon was in Boston (2013?). Bud Taplin had him install a spacer to take care of the problem.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

What he was experience was vertical movement in the rudder shaft, not lateral. He installed a plastic ring between the rudder and the body of the boat to limit the vertical travel. Still, adding a space outside could potentially help a bit.

Where are you in GCSrings? Still there? In in Jacksonville just North of the GC grave yard.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

We’re in the Bahamas.

So the rudder knock is the a cliff Hanger ?

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

For us all, yes.

You probably know this already, but the cables are attached to the steering quadrant incorrectly, Captain Q Yacht Hunter just did a good video on this titled "9 EXPERT TIPS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT STEERING SYSTEMS - Ran-day EP 6" for anyone interested.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

In what way are they incorrect?

@sailingelpulponegro230

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory Both nuts should be on the post side of the quadrant, one to set the length and one as a lock-nut.

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

That’s how our set up is, only ours is even safer because we have locknuts on our locknuts. (4 nuts total) 👍

@sailingelpulponegro230

Жыл бұрын

@@Sailboatstory :- D

If you find oil leaking in your engine, it will soon be a knocking. Duct tape works wonders.

. Does the rudder itself have too much play? Fix the leak with new packing and see if the knocking/Movement is still there!

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

It's an almost imperceivable amount of movement. The worst part, as far as we can tell, is the knocking noise it makes that's going to be right under our bed. It only makes the noise in certain conditions though. Yeah, as much trouble as it seems like it would be to fix it, I think we might do exactly what you suggest for now.

@davehalst

Жыл бұрын

I’d slip some thin copper or brass strips down into the rudder tube, grease them up with some copper grease and bend the top edge over the top rim of the rudder sleeve and hold them in place with a stainless steel Jubilee clip or Hose clamp as you guys call them. You need some free movement of course but that should sort it out. Another great video Ben!

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

That's an interesting idea as it could be done from inside the boat, but I'd worry about the strips grinding away at the rudder post over time. Do you know of anyone who has done something similar?

⛵⛵⛵⛵⛵

What are your thoughts about the play in your rudder? Any ideas for a fix?

I caught the subscribe message on the motor control panel. Do I get a prize?

@Sailboatstory

Жыл бұрын

You get the notoriety of being the only one who noticed that I know of.

@hv2sailsvsweetpea680

Жыл бұрын

It’s all in the details 😎👍

Did I miss something? The rudder post problem. Is it fixed? Ah well, maybe next week we'll find out.

:)

Well Dang ! All boats require lotsa maintaining,I was hoping to see a endeavor 32 on her side with sailed up sailing in the ocean with some wind,I wanna see the boat sailing not sweet little family n nautical tattoos ,Ime so tired of nautical tattoos n pritty wives swimming underwater in slow moation,dos annybody sail any more ????