"You should give a shit about the impact of your words and how you make other people feel." I remember when I _finally_ figured this out. I spent so many years being angry at people for misunderstanding me. I internalized it as a deliberate attempt to reject me, without actually trying to understand what I was saying. I _finally_ realized that _I_ should be able to pay enough attention to the person/people I'm talking to, to craft my message in a way that *makes sense to them*. They are after all the person/people *I want to understand me*. This change in attitude changed everything. Surprise surprise, when I started caring more about how my words were taken, then what I meant by them, more people understood me.

@sirriffsalot4158

3 жыл бұрын

There is a humongous flaw in that quote and what you just said there. There are only two ways through which you can be outraged or feel negatively about someone's comments/opinions: You have either correctly understood what that someone is saying, and for whatever reason feel outraged or touchy about it, or you have misunderstood what they're saying, and, for whatever reason still, you're also outraged by it. Either way, something Hitchens said on this comes to mind: "I'm terribly depressed how in this country you can be told 'That's offensive!', as if those two words are somehow supposed to constitute an argument." Regardless of whether or not someone feels offended because they understood (or misunderstood) what a person is saying, it still falls on the offended party to lay out their criticisms in a way that honors the call for civil discourse. Your feelings are not an argument, no matter what. One could of course try to re-explain it to them, but your basic opinion shouldn't change in the process. If someone out there genuinely thinks that the likes of Sam Harris is too offensive to be grappled with, despite his tireless efforts to carefully re-articulate his opinions (and having repeatedly said that he is not looking to offend anyone), then I really wanna see some examples of people who express the same views that Dr. Harris opines, without the ensuing spawn of online complaints for offenses being felt everywhere. You're going to have to look long and hard for that. At a certain point people have to grow up. But until they do grow up, mature people have to insist on continually drawing the line and saying "Look, this is what I meant and still mean, and if you're unwilling to recognize and accept that as what I'm saying, regardless of whether or not you agree with it, then that's your problem. My statements are here, ready for you to lay them on the chopping-board. You have to combat my ideas, not just bitch about how you feel. If all you have to come back with are complaints on how offensive I come across to you, then the conversation is over. It's not something that I should even have to contend with. It's not my job to play nanny on account of how you might feel personally about my opinions. " This is especially true with regards to these kinds of topics where caring about peoples' feelings just completely misses the mark. Serious social problems aren't solved by appealing to how everyone might feel on the matter. Actual douchebags who are just out to cause trouble are easy to recognize, and they don't last very long because they either lose all credibility very fast or people just stop listening to them. Sam Harris obviously doesn't even remotely apply in that category. Finally, try it for yourself for good measure perhaps? I did... Pick any controversial topic, and try to communicate what you really think on the subject, on a platform where at least 10 000 or so people will see it, where anyone can also comment back. I suggest some big online transgender group or a "Black Lives Matter"-forum. See what happens. You'll get so much shit thrown back at you I quite honestly admire how poised and collected Sam is at all times when this inevitably happens. It's really something to learn from. Some of his hate mail is really astonishing, and some of it is just quite freaking hilarious. You can't please everyone, but we sure as hell try, so long as a principle of not compromising our original position on the matter is upheld.r Peace.

@t3tsuyaguy1

3 жыл бұрын

@@sirriffsalot4158 Wow guy. I don't really see how you got all of that from my comment. I was really just talking about making an effort to clear up what you mean, instead of digging in your heals and getting pissed. I'll give you an example of the kind of attitude I was speaking against. One of my good friends once said the following to another person in front of me, "It's not my fault that you're too stupid to understand what I mean." I'll give you a guess how the rest of the conversation went. Later I was talking with that person, and was able to explain what my friend meant in 3 short sentences. I was able to do this, because I had taken the effort to understand how that other person uses language. It turned out they completely agreed with my friend, and their entire argument had been a waste of their time. My friend was angry for days, when he could have just taken a second to clarify what he meant. The other person in this situation was not particularly aggressive, they were just very confused and a little annoyed.

@sirriffsalot4158

3 жыл бұрын

@@t3tsuyaguy1 Fair enough. But none of that applies here, as I've already pointed out, so I refer you again to what I originally wrote with regards to all of that. It's not as if I didn't understand that that was the overall drift of your message to begin with, but rather that the message itself is very misleading, if that's all it meant. We're in the realm of academia, intellectuals and hundreds of thousands of people all chiming in with their various complaints of personal offense taken. Such a basis for a public conversation on social issues just don't fly in these dimensions, and certainly not under the banner of "you should give a shit what people feel". Granted, my reply was a bit lengthy, but I was bored and felt the need to articulate myself just right so it doesn't seem like I'm just flinging gunk for no reason. Peace out!

@xenophiliuslovegood6914

3 жыл бұрын

@@sirriffsalot4158 Hi! I don't know if you still feel the same way you felt in the original reply, but there's a bit of an issue with saying that it lies on the offended person to offer criticisms that promote civil discourse. Namely, that the offended person has zero responsibility for listening to or responding to you. If you won't be bothered to consider your audience, why the heck should they consider your ideas? According to this logic, wouldn't that presumed responsibly fall back on the original speaker should they get offended at people getting mad at them? I really vibe with the OP's comment. It wasn't about miscommunicating or changing the meaning of what you're saying, it's about respecting your audience. If you respect your audience; I imagine you're also listening to them (not just formulating a counterattack), so it's very natural for your original position or opinion to shift.

@sirriffsalot4158

3 жыл бұрын

@@xenophiliuslovegood6914 Hey! I think if you re-read those claims you just brought forth a little more carefully, you might actually see what an insane predicament that would put us all in if it were put into practice. One thing you're right about is that there is no responsibility on any offended party what so ever to have to "listen" to or respond to anything. But come on dude, if you're offended, then obviously that presupposes that you listened to something that offended you.. No one is compelled to listen to anything, where did I even say anything remotely close to that? Leaving that aside, there is no compulsion for anyone to respond to something they don't like, of course. But that in itself I just don't see as constituting any sort of argument here. You don't have to respond, but if you do decide to respond, you're at the very least going to have to make the response mirror the nature and spirit of the original content. Anyone can yell that they're offended, and you're of course entitled to -- but a lot of people these days actually think that being offended, and saying as much publicly, constitutes an argument. It doesn't. As far as considering your audience is concerned.. I'm all for a healthy dose of respect mate. But respect here does not, and should never mean, being inoffensive at the cost of what you actually want to say. Talking to someone respectfully, in this context, means to not talk down to your audience, because why would you unless you're really not so sure of yourself in the things you're saying? Sam himself has pointed out that anyone's capacity to be outraged is not something that I, or anyone else for that matter, needs to respect. As a matter of fact, it's not even something that YOU (the offended party) should respect. To the contrary, it's something that all of us should be very much on our guard for, because it can easily mislead us. I mean I'm offended at boy-bands for crying out loud, that doesn't mean my offense has any real say in whether or not they should exist. No offense but I honestly don't understand where you got your last logical conclusion from... "According to this logic, wouldn't that presumed responsibly fall back on the original speaker should they get offended at people getting mad at them?" You made your own logic there my friend.. :-) Wherever you got this from, it really has nothing to do with what I said at all. I'm saying that being offended isn't an argument, lol. But just to take what you said for what it is, sure: If the original speaker in question here is offended, and then cries abuse at being offended, then yeah that doesn't constitute an argument either.. so I don't see how would that in any way demolish my fundamental point..? :-P In conclusion: there is no issue with saying that it lies on the offended person to offer criticisms that promote civil discourse, as long as civil discourse is what you're after of course. If that's not the sort of discourse you're after, and you just want to scream abuse or tell someone you're offended -- fine, knock yourself out. But it begins and ends there. Being offended and saying as much does not in any way inform on the facts at hand. There are all kinds of feelings and audiences out there, so whose offended feelings should trump whose? We solve this problem by ruling them all out as redundant. *If you won't be bothered to consider your audience, why the heck should they consider your ideas?* Again, this is the sort of contorted way of looking at what I said that I really don't understand how you arrived at... No one is compelling anyone to consider anything here. But once you engage in a discussion about it, you better bring some facts and arguments beyond "I'm offended" along with you, that's it. Otherwise your position is cancelled out by anyone else's capacity to also just "feel a certain way about it". Is that finally clear? :-P Lastly: to think that one, or even several offended parties manifesting themselves, means that a speaker is just at-large not bothered to consider his or her audience? Well that just completely fails to explain how anyone could have any audience at all, lol. You can't please everyone. I'm sorry, but your whole approach to this problem dances around the fact that we actually need to insist on people getting past mere feelings if we actually want to make progress on difficult issues. Peace out!

I'm also tired of 'emotional' being used as a pejorative. It's really stupid, especially when you can see that the person they are calling 'rational' is also emotionally invested/ motivated by what they are saying.

@Colaglass

5 жыл бұрын

I agree that we shouldn't call people names, but not being able to control emotions is what has brought war and suffering through all of human history. We shouldn't celebrate "being emotional", we should celebrate being able to control them.

@somedragontoslay2579

5 жыл бұрын

@@Colaglass I would say that in order to control, you have to acknowledge and know the nature of the thing being controlled. Many people who criticize the left for talking too much about feelings could know better than strawmanning and choosing those who are unstable as the true representatives of the left while ignoring those who can control their feelings while talking seriously about them.

@Colaglass

5 жыл бұрын

@@somedragontoslay2579 I wasn't really having a stab at either side of the political spectrum, the issue transcends those borders. If you're in political office, you are probably pushing patos on someone. Usually it works because many endorse the idea of "living in the moment", then the next complaining about the fact that they didn't plan ahead for the future, and they're in fact worse off. We need to get better as a species not of following leaders, but paving our own path. I don't think society in general is built on anything of the like. It's all about giving up yourself so somebody else can make decisions based on some rules which is just creating deeper issues which in turn... You get the point. Humanity is complicating itself because of our inability to deal with emotion. I wish for a world where people have some sort of perspective on how reality **is**, not necessarily what we **want it to be**. I have a sneaking suspicion we're being led on.

@somedragontoslay2579

5 жыл бұрын

@@Colaglass I agree, and sorry for bringing those partisan issues to the table, it's just that most times, I find that structure used to belittle the left from the right. Like: oh! You're talking about feelings too much, therefore you're too sensitive. But, in connection with what you said, sometimes I feel those people who belittle talking about emotions are talking about a world they want where people are unsensitive, instead of the world we have. Is vs. want, like you pointed out but upside down. However, I'm happy that is not the case with you and I was in error. 😁

@Colaglass

5 жыл бұрын

@@somedragontoslay2579 Nah, it's understandable. I get that politics is a big deal, and has always been, it's just that it all seems so nonsensical to me, and I keep assuming that people think the same. Ever since I was a little kid I've tried to control my emotions because I've always found them to be very illogical in the situations they overpower my reasoning. Being mindful about them is key, I think. Thank you for the respectful conversation (very uncommon on the internet), and I wish you everything well for the future!

Your mistake was seeing him as a hero in the first place. He's just another guy. Appreciate the good stuff and accept the negative as part of human complexity and inconsistency.

@youisstupid2586

3 жыл бұрын

appreciate the good stuff and criticize the bad.

@rgcooke

3 жыл бұрын

@@youisstupid2586 Yes, criticize the bad, but don't write him off because you disagree with part of what he says.

@youisstupid2586

3 жыл бұрын

@@rgcooke what if the bad outweighs the good? I think in his case it does. racial profiling is a pretty bad thing to ask for and even worse to defend. I think that's reason enough to not take him seriously imo.

@TV-ob1if

3 жыл бұрын

@@youisstupid2586 why is racial profiling bad ? Much less “worse”?

@youisstupid2586

3 жыл бұрын

@@TV-ob1if assuming 1.8 billion people are potential terrorists is a bad belief to hold. Not only it’s incorrect, it’s harmful for that a particular race in the short run and all of humanity in the long run. What if racial profiling became a norm? Every white Person was considered a potential nazi and a war criminal? Every asian person was considered a potential bio hazard? Every black person a stupid guy who is good at sports? It will create animosity between races and causes more problems than it solves. Islam is a harmful religion like all other religions but treating it differently will cause more harm than good.

I don’t think Sam Harris would want anyone to idolize him.

@Hemzees

3 жыл бұрын

That is besides the point.

@mrhw2526

3 жыл бұрын

@@Hemzees well, that’s the title of the post.

@michaelbrickley2443

3 жыл бұрын

I disagree...I feel he is in love with himself beyond belief

@eliza1826

3 жыл бұрын

@@mrhw2526 Have you met his fanboys?

@mrhw2526

3 жыл бұрын

@@eliza1826 I have not. Guess I have some things to learn?

What do I think? I think people should start thinking for themselves and stop idolizing others because they speak well.

@skywriter4308

5 жыл бұрын

And yet, exploring someone else's ideas with zeal is one of the best gateways to start thinking for yourself, because you eventually discover that they aren't perfect.

@outlawJosieFox

5 жыл бұрын

I agree. I think that people admire Harris largely because he is well spoken and evidently practiced at debating but he seems like a cold fish who has a very simplistic attitude to most topics. He fails to take any account of the decades of damage and abuse wrought on the Middle East for decades and therefore implies that the geopolitical tensions in the area and the outside interference by Western powers and the former USSR mean nothing and have nothing to do with terrorism and radicalized Muslims.

@user-ot1ue5qc5e

5 жыл бұрын

@@skywriter4308 As a person who has gone through phases of zeal for different ideas, such as the nofap movement, I wholeheartedly concur. Nothing guards against zeal and idolization more than the hard experience, and consequences, of being a zealot/idoliser yourself.

@babagalacticus

5 жыл бұрын

"speak well"..or voluminously or rapidly or with unbridled & UNselflective confidence. it really is a sign(possibly of the last days of 'man'?), that young ppl, most especially young MEN, are so quick to sign up for any flavor du jour of "public intellectual" that comes careening (or slithering) down the pike. i stopped feeling the need to address men as 'father' or 'reverend' as i DO NOT revere any man & you ain't my damn father. there is probably a gene, as yet not specifically identified, labelled "worship & obey" that would account for so much of the gullible lemming rushes in our species; think 'cults', think 'organized religion', think 'monarchies'. no matter what value or helpful insight 1 may gather from these guys (& sometimes women), you need to separate the chaff from the wheat & that most essentially begins with identifying their personal pathologies. "rhetoric, it seems, is a producer of persuasion for belief, not for instruction in the matter of right and wrong...and so the rhetorician's business is not to instruct a law court or a public meeting in matters of right and wrong, but only to make them believe." -socrates in the gorgias

@jorgeloredo100

5 жыл бұрын

Josie Fox same thing with Ben Shapiro an many other people that we idolized. I think the problem is that KZread is filled with videos of them “owning” other people and that make our brain to wire that they are perfect and smart and all knowing, but if you take a moment to listen you’ll see that most of them are full of shit.

I thought that Sam Harris was Ben Stiller when I clicked on this video, and I wondered why you would ever idolize Ben Stiller. I thought you just were some big Night at the Museum fan!

@kristynicole6201

3 жыл бұрын

THANK U FOR SAYING IT 🙈🙈🙈🤣🤣

@cerealflakes12

3 жыл бұрын

Heavyweights is a perennial classic

@722georgetonorge

3 жыл бұрын

@@kristynicole6201 haha! Actually, Sam Harris has claimed that he is often mistaken for Ben Stiller. Pretty sure he said people have even asked for his autograph under the false belief that he is Ben Stiller.

@gregoriosamsa2722

3 жыл бұрын

I loved Sam Harris in Mystery Men

@Xondar11223344

3 жыл бұрын

"But why male models?"

And the weird thing is that one of things I used to love most about Sam was *his ability to be concise and precise with his arguments.* It always flabberghasted me when people did misrepresent him in debates because he was so clear in his arguments that I couldn't understand how he could have been misunderstood. But then he starts talking about social issues and the script is completely flipped and he's using all the same shady argumentative tactics that theists used to use against him. And it's just....ugh. Why.

@robertwilliams1167

Жыл бұрын

He’s always talked on circles. Just because you talk slowly and use big words doesn’t make you an intellectual titan.

@zachariayusuf6688

Жыл бұрын

I really feel sorry for you if you thought Sam was a very high knowledge person

@pedestrian_0

Жыл бұрын

@@robertwilliams1167 this is just a self report, you can't understand someone, therefore no one can? Yikes dawg you gotta hit the mental gym

@realurilordjonhnsoni7342

Жыл бұрын

​@@zachariayusuf6688 Like him or not he is highly intelligent and very articulate with his opinions. you look like a hater tbh. even tho i'm an atheist there are some christians which i respect and would say are very knowledgable and articulate, much more than me, i always try to be objective even towards those i dislike.

@greghuffman3061

2 ай бұрын

Do you feel similar about Christopher hitchens?

As a shockingly racist young person who now tries hard to not be racist I find this really interesting. Onward and upward.

@Goliath5100

3 жыл бұрын

Good on you for recognizing that and working on it! Too many people are in denial of their prejudices these days and are only getting more entrenched in them.

@recreant359

3 жыл бұрын

Racism is a natural biological function; it is uniquely HUMAN to be able recognize and readjust.

@catsmom129

3 жыл бұрын

Rekreant What evidence have you found on racism being a biological function? I understand that people may be naturally afraid of the unfamiliar, but does that automatically translate into racism? What if you’ve grown up in a multi racial community, or even a multi racial family? Would racism still be natural? I haven’t especially looked into this, which is why I’m asking. I would think though, that both nature and upbringing & life experience would play a role here.

@manny9564

3 жыл бұрын

Amilah as a black individual racism is a bi-product of tribalism in my personal opinion

@greenguy2372

3 жыл бұрын

@@manny9564 As a bisexual person I agree that things like racism or homophobia are products of our tribalistic nature and our desire to have an identity that is shared with others who reflect our identity for the sake of self-consciousness (me vs "the other") and a feeling of belonging (us vs "the other"). Now of course just because those things are natural or biological doesn't mean that they are good. To claim so would be to commit the naturalistic fallacy. Racism and homophobia are not only irrational, but also immoral.

You shouldn't idolize anyone. We are all just people and we are all flawed. The most brilliant minds have glaring blindspots and imperfections. I teach graduate prep courses, which is a mix of logic, test and subject prep. My students are mostly intelligent, well educated, and academically inclined individuals. My students include professors, post graduate researchers, Ph.D. students, etc. at prestigious universities, including Harvard, Carnegie Mellon and Berkeley. They are all brilliant experts in their field; they are also all obviously intellectually flawed. I listen to what these people have to say in their fields of expertise but I do not assume they are correct, ever, as they often are not.

@BlacksmithTWD

5 жыл бұрын

Indeed, we can idolize the spark of divinity in a human being, but not a human being entirely.

@CayeDaws

5 жыл бұрын

I hate it when people are "fans" of public speakers and politicians.

@Oners82

4 жыл бұрын

@@CayeDaws What is wrong with being a fan of somebody? It doesn't mean you believe everything they say, just that maybe they have taught you things and opened your mind to new ideas. There's nothing wrong with that.

@o.fm.a5573

4 жыл бұрын

@@Oners82 why use the Word fan?

@santacruzman

4 жыл бұрын

@@o.fm.a5573 Because it seems the appropriate word to use? I could instead say, intellectual friend or numerous others terms, but fan is a good term for many. I like it because everyone seems to get it - at least when they share the same context.

"Sam Harris would call this political correctness, I"d call this not being an asshole!!' Wow, such a great quote.

@ChristyAbbey

4 жыл бұрын

@beanie0112 Yep. Some of us have been saying that very line since youtube activism was a thing.

@Etcher

4 жыл бұрын

@beanie0112 So we can infer from your statement that anyone who is "anti-sjw" wants their rights to be "asshole" to remain unimpeded )love your lack of specificity there) and by the same logic SJWs represent all of society. Cool thesis bro. 🙄

@HadBabits

4 жыл бұрын

Isn't it weird how all these 'free speech advocates' constantly use their free speech to harass and spread hateful rhetoric? It's almost like they're intentionally trying to provoke people until they get push back so they can claim to be the victim and gain sympathy for their awful views... Nah, must be an SJW conspiracy :B

@valsan1323

4 жыл бұрын

@Johnny Casteel I agree

@felixpotter6420

4 жыл бұрын

beanie0112 no.

I'm a fan of Sam Harris, but literally every point in this video is entirely valid

@allie2549

3 жыл бұрын

DrippyRL I’d be curious to hear why you’re a fan? I’m not super familiar with him, and this video seems contrary to supporting him, which is why I’m wondering, from the perspective of someone who clearly knows more about him, what still makes him worth following as a fan?

@mpnewell10

3 жыл бұрын

@@allie2549 the thing about Sam is that his opinions transcend political norms he's never all right or all left. The issue with Sam is that he takes premises that are true and will run with them. Profiling is a perfect example for this, take a premise such as "Muslims are more likely to be terrorists than non-muslims". While this premise is true to conclude that we need to profile Muslims at the airport seems to negate the French revolution in the values that emerged from it all together. The issue is the Sam often doesn't mediate facts through the values of the enlightenment when making public policy prescriptions. However I genuinely respect his courage in saying things that are incredibly controversial. A lot of his more liberal thoughts are entirely rational and often entail a very interesting means to a common end. With that said I haven't listened to or read Sam in years however much of his work on religion has been formative in my intellectual development. I am thus a fan

@RUSE321

3 жыл бұрын

His work on spirituality seems pretty spot on, that's what I listen to him for nowadays.

@mpnewell10

3 жыл бұрын

@@RUSE321 I used to listen to his meditation advice while on large dose acid trips

@RUSE321

3 жыл бұрын

@@mpnewell10 That sounds trippy haha. Was it with KZread videos or his meditation app, and what was it like?

I want to have a beer with you. You seem rad, thanks for the vid man.

@JoeJohnston-taskboy

3 жыл бұрын

I total misread this comment as "I want to have a bear with you" and then I wondered "is having a bear with someone the new 'you are my king/queen?'"

Ya. Like anything in life. We're first introduced to something and it's "the answer". Then after a time we begin to see it's flaws and it's no longer "the answer", but just another thing we've experienced that's made us grow.

@yongameii1

4 жыл бұрын

Becoming an Atheist, I sought a better understanding of my stance and started studying arguments that I may potentially have thus stumbled upon Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krause etc. Being an Atheist and a student of reason and logic plus a lifelong student of experience, I'd advice you not to idolise anyone. Everyone of apparent sound intellect has something to offer, not everything. Collect all that wisdom to for your own. Sam Harris has my respect.

@hawt_fiya

4 жыл бұрын

Well said!

@hawt_fiya

4 жыл бұрын

Mathias Yung I agree whole heartedly. I’m glad the title wasn’t “Why Sam Harris is a tool”. Nobody has all the answers but nuggets of wisdom and perspective can be obtained from many different voices.

@GebreMMII

2 жыл бұрын

So are you more agnostic regarding religion, assuming you're an atheist?

@JavHos98

Жыл бұрын

When the answer wasn’t answer enough? How can be that? The first answer had definitely not been the answer from the beginning but the observers putting faith to believing in it! That’s when critical thinking plays its role to determine the validity of the answer!

Idolize No one

@flappymcflappington6719

6 жыл бұрын

Yup people can fail but ideas are all that matter. i.pinimg.com/originals/01/f5/60/01f560eb77afaf9a918a09543c930ad9.jpg

@devonhitchens4804

5 жыл бұрын

*Except Hitchens*

@pinball1970

5 жыл бұрын

@@devonhitchens4804 You beat me to it! Hitchens..........and Beatles

@drew7155

5 жыл бұрын

@@devonhitchens4804 as you grow older you will see he is also fallible. Milton friedman is the only one who has stood the test of time. With that said, as a Hitchens fan, Prager objectively wins the debate.

@tonyjk

5 жыл бұрын

When you idolize none, you often end up idolizing yourself

One slight correction: Murray is not a “scientist”, as most people take the word. He has no degrees in biology, biochemistry, chemistry, etc. His undergrad degree is in history, and has a Ph.D in POLITICAL Science.

@ewanhassall7350

2 жыл бұрын

You dont need a degree to be a scientist nor need a degree to be anything. The best artists and authors I've seen were engineers. I dont know enough about Murray to defend him here, but attacking his authority is not fair. He doesnt come off as stupid and so Id give good faith to his ideas.

@ratulxy

4 ай бұрын

​@@ewanhassall7350like those christian scientists.

@Steven-wz7sh

3 ай бұрын

​​@@ewanhassall7350don't know who it is. I do know people who are not scientists but are well read on the subject. They don't conduct research but are brilliant at reading the research and synthesizing the information. Like a really good contractor. A guy I grew up with can't driver a nail but he can supervise and organize a build like no ones business. Edit: know of a person would be a better way of stating it. Still they have a PhD but not in field but really good communication skills.

“His claims are so vague and quick that he still has access to deniability. He can accuse you of misrepresenting him because he hasn’t really represented anything of substance to begin with.” Thank you!!! This sums up perfectly Sam Harris' take on virtually everything I've seen or heard from him.

I am an atheist, and am one of the few Americans who lives in an area where I interact with Muslim people all the time. Minneapolis has a huge tightly knit community of Somali people who are almost all Muslim, and a lot of west African people with varying religious affiliation as well, some Muslim. Islamophobia, and I feel comfortable using this terms because the suburban christians I interact with are actually afraid of my Muslim friends, makes my blood boil. I do think that parts of Islamic ideology deserve critique. But I am not the one to do that. I have gay, woman and black (there are significant dividends between "Arab" and African" Muslim people) Muslim friends who have a relationship with Allah but routinely speak about certain aspects of their faith and interactions with other muslims have made them feel marginalized. It's as common as christians questioning homophobic, misogynistic, and racist Christian belief. But they do not get platforms. The only people I see who get platforms speaking against Islam are white people who have very little interaction with muslims themselves, and use racially charged rhetoric to paint Muslim men as abusers and terrorists and Muslim women as victims. This enables the aforementioned islamphobic suburban white people to fear, literally fear people who look vaguely East African or middle eastern. If Sam Harris cares so much about terrorism and problematic beliefs held by conservative muslims, he should have elevated progressive Muslim people to his platform and used interviews and testimonies from them to make his point. But he didn't. If he's not racist, he's at least really comfortable stoking racial fears.

@gtpk3527

5 жыл бұрын

He literally did just that - he co-wrote book called Islam and the Future of Tolerance with Maajid Nawaz, a progressive Muslim from UK.

@ValentineCrescent

5 жыл бұрын

@@gtpk3527 He's a "muslim" who posts derogatory cartoons on his twitter of Islam... right... "progressive muslim".

@catdeluxeatday

5 жыл бұрын

👏👏👏

@gtpk3527

5 жыл бұрын

@@ValentineCrescent Wait are you criticizing Nawaz for not being conservative enough? Wth?

@ValentineCrescent

5 жыл бұрын

@@gtpk3527 wow...... let me get this straight, me calling out Nawaz for his anti-Islamic propaganda is equivalent to me criticizing him for not being conservative enough?? what are you smoking

I think it's very dishonest of you to associate Dave Rubin with the word intellectual. :)

@TCt83067695

5 жыл бұрын

i aaauuuu-greee with that

@mukkaar

5 жыл бұрын

Oh man, he is clearly promoting right. Not that it's bad, but he claims to be liberal while mostly promoting right quests while and agreeing with them. So it's just really deceptive. I mean his show is even sponsored by right wing.

@gaussminigun

5 жыл бұрын

@@wa57s577 "alt right"

@gaussminigun

5 жыл бұрын

dave rubin never claimed to be an intellectual and incase one of you dishonestly goes "LOL GOOD CUZ HE ISNT SMART" or something silly ....do any of you claim to be an intellectual? chances are you don't, so don't give me that bullshit

@gaussminigun

5 жыл бұрын

@@mukkaar the left avoids talking to him, not his fault

I look at Harris the same way I looked at Hitchens: great on religion but I wouldn’t turn to him for policy advice.

@call4sorrow1

4 жыл бұрын

apart from the war on Afghanistan , im curious as to what u disagree with hitchens on politics?

@tofu8688

3 жыл бұрын

brian bridges He probably still hasn’t gotten over the fact Hitchens was wrong about the Iraq war

@billiejean685

3 жыл бұрын

@Orlaith McManus what hitches ??

@billiejean685

3 жыл бұрын

@@tofu8688 what did hitches think about the war?

@piruz3243

3 жыл бұрын

@@call4sorrow1 Hitchens may have been right or wrong about many of his political stances, and we can have a discussion about that. But I do agree with the point made by @steelersguy74. And I think you would agree with this: if all Hitchens had spoken about was politics and not religion, he would have been considered just as another political talking head. There was nothing special, original, or genius about his politics.

Drawing partly from some of your points in this video, here’s where I stand on Sam Harris: his positions on Charles Murray’s theories, on profiling and other controversial issues dance so far on the side of justifying bigotry that it’s not particularly worth it to a well-meaning person on the left to tease through all the angles of his argument just to agree with his underlying point. Harris’s insensitivity on these and other subjects makes him an accessory to bigoted people whether he agrees with them or not. So, I’m inclined to side with some of the more emotional responses of his critics, even if they’re technically mistaken about what Harris’s views are.

You shouldnt idolize anyone to the point of blindly agreeing everything they say. Take the best points that someone articulates and be critical of their weak points.

@Oners82

4 жыл бұрын

That is kinda stating the obvious...

@heliusqarry8421

4 жыл бұрын

@@Oners82 yet its not commonly occuring, if u cant recognize humans have blindspots where we know better but fail to act appropriatly. then ur either a narcisistic prick or just naive.

@mauricea.tillman4956

2 жыл бұрын

See: Dr. Jordan Peterson Stans Peterson is a brilliant man but a lot of his Stans cherry pick his quotes out of context and ignore what they disagree with. For example, he’s often quoted by “red pills” when bashing uppity women. Yet, Dr. Peterson is an advocate of marriage, which conflicts with red pill philosophy.

@Oners82

2 жыл бұрын

@Ésteban Universidad Do we? I'm not sure who "we" is or which culture you're talking about. As far as I'm aware there is massive cultural diversity across the planet and your statement simply does not apply to many of them.

@Oners82

2 жыл бұрын

@@mauricea.tillman4956 Stans? What the hell is a Stan, lol?!

I remember those simpler times, when _Fight Club_ seemed like an awesome movie, and KZread atheists had it all figured out. Acquiring wisdom is painful, and occasionally embarrassing.

@anotherguy6270

6 жыл бұрын

Osiris Malkovich is fight club a bad movie?

@TheMattmatic

6 жыл бұрын

I still enjoy Fight Club. It's not a good basis for a personal philosophy though.

@Schmendrikson

6 жыл бұрын

Well, fight club is a good movie, esp if u view it as criticism of toxic masculinity :P

@christianhartselle108

6 жыл бұрын

Very wise.

@Vesselforpain

6 жыл бұрын

Idk if you were modeling yourself off of Tyler Durden I think you missed the point of fight club.

I just discovered your channel yesterday, already shared two of your videos, you should be proud your channel is great, your talk about topics without coming across clic base you really got an opinion about things and they all makes a lot of sense

Amazing analysis! I came across him in exactly the same way & I was having the same exact questions about Harris when all of a sudden that I found that he's perceived as RW. Thank you T1J. You have helped clear up my confusion.

I’m fairly sure the ‘4 horsemen’ thing started as a joke.

@geologist5838

5 жыл бұрын

And one of the best discussion I've ever heard

@raharu000

5 жыл бұрын

Isn't that obvious?

@freethinkingMILF

5 жыл бұрын

It was, sarcastic...people have different humor I guess.

@essencelost2884

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah just like the IDW.

@jrobbins707

4 жыл бұрын

Only fairly?

I have a careful distrust of idolizing people to begin with. Same with the feeling of 'pride'. It can be good, useful, or 'deserved', but I can also see that it can often lead to less opportune situations.

@zoyzoycornface

6 жыл бұрын

idolizing makes people astray from the truth it makes them sustainable to manipulation to people who have a personal agenda its similar to worshiping cult leaders they all have a agenda and are always wrong

@zoyzoycornface

6 жыл бұрын

youre a very wise fellow

@Doriesep6622

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Idolizing anyone is childish.

@HannibalHanslaughter

6 жыл бұрын

Same. Never understood why people get so attached to a person they obviously know hardly anything about and then end up being really disappointed when they find out that they are human too.

@zoyzoycornface

6 жыл бұрын

not just that intellectuals entice people who look for role models with logic then they veer off track to their own personal ideological beliefs i catch them doing this quiet often psychopaths tend to do the same to manipulate people to their favor they also enter fields of study of which they have no idea what theyre talking about usually like psychology and philosophy pushing there own personal narrative with every topic such behavior is quiet disasters to free thinking people

Wow, man. I'm a huge Sam Harris fan and was ready to hear a bunch of the usual criticisms of Harris. This was super thorough and fair and gave me a lot to think about. I don't fully agree with the criticism that he uses vague arguments and then defends against being held accountable for them. I think his opinions and views are very nuanced and it simply isn't possible to explain all the finer points of them each time they're brought up. While I agree he sees malice more often than it actually occurs, I do think his viewpoints are often misunderstood and misrepresented, whether intentionally or not.

@juanmireles8756

3 жыл бұрын

I understood Sam's views on religion before he was born. Nothing new there. His views on society belong to an amateur who just discovered he can have an opinion. His view on policing is very narrow and shortsighted. If he is espousing a white supremacy narrative without intention, he is just a useful idiot. I've been a follower of Sam for quite some time now. Studied all his books and I know he is a scientist and at least agnostic. I threw the god line there just to provoke a reaction and vent my frustration about how Sam can be so right in his field BUT soooo wrong on social issues. He clearly emphasizes the white supremacy narrative carefully; cherry picking data that would make him appear "Objective". This time, he's clearly on the wrong side of History. He reminds me of Candace Owens, a black skinned white supremacist. And Kanye West to boot. Sam Harris, I'm no longer a fan. You are cancelled.

@punctuationman334

3 жыл бұрын

Juan Mireles oh god, you’re copy and pasting this comment everywhere.

@Jonathan.T.1000

3 жыл бұрын

@@punctuationman334 What did you expect of someone who can't think for himself.

@liammarshall-butler3384

3 жыл бұрын

@@juanmireles8756 I am not familiar with Sam Harris's work in general, but the thing about profiling muslims seems like an excellent example..He is say there are features that makes it likely that someone might be muslim, and we should profile and scrutinize them accordingly. The result of instituting this as policy is that people with brown skin, and names associated with countries with high muslim populations would be unduly targeted regardless of their religion. Perhaps, from a practical perspire one of the most ironic possible outcomes would be that Sikhs would be targeted the most by such a policy. However, by bit explaining what he actually means, he just allows us to imagine what would be the outcome and how it would work. I have no idea if Sam Harris is racist; it doesn't really matter. I can say that he is arguing for at least one policy that would have a racist outcome, and that matter a lot more than his personal prejudices.

@eliza1826

3 жыл бұрын

His rational atheism is being used as a cover for Islamophobia and US militarism. I'm not fan of Islam, but I can see a paid propagandist. Now imagine if muslims were to speak ill on Judaism. It would be blasted everywhere as antisemitism. He also believes that US had legitimate reason for war in Iraq. He also believes America "accidentally" killed 500 thousand Iraq kids by medical sanctions and brushes it off as "oh well, we meant well", he says America had good intentions in Iraq. He argues that killing people while trying to take their resources is an "unintended" collateral of war which we need to do and that is just like dying while driving cars which is also what we need to do. But then he turns around and vilifies the victims who try to fight back against their pillagers and argue that they are doing it out of ideological evil and not just out of fighting back against their plunderers.

I cannot like this (and many of your other videos) enough! I applaud how you take great care to be honest, transparent, and fair/balanced in showing how you come to your conclusions. We need more nuanced discussions like this. Thank you.

But hey honestly, i’m a huge sam Harris fan. But this is NO way a smear or anything. Your video was actually well thought out, you didn’t take any cheap shots, you had some honest critiques. Subscribed 👍🏻

@MrBrianSchumacher

5 жыл бұрын

I agree with you. There is such a thing as constructive criticism. Subscribed as well.

@Ralothael

5 жыл бұрын

Very much agreed. I think Sam Harris is awesome, that however does not mean I think he is perfect and doesnt make his own share of mistakes. I think this video was well thought out and put together. There might be a couple points I disagree with, but that is only to be expected, I think.

@leorising8074

5 жыл бұрын

Chris Stayner well said.

@Oners82

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrBrianSchumacher I used to be a Harris fan but the guy just gets too much stuff wrong. I have most definitely "grown out" of my Sam Harris stage!

@jeremyw.norwood1453

4 жыл бұрын

I disagree... rather strongly.

I know this is old and nobody will probably read this, but there's one thing here I cannot let slide: Daria. I understand where you're coming from, but I'd still defend her character as unique and likable. Anyway, subbed.

@saquist

4 жыл бұрын

I read your post. Thanks for your thoughts.

@ihaveanametoo

4 жыл бұрын

I actually re-watched Daria relatively recently and I have to say, I largely agree with t1j here. Her cynicism was cool when we were teens but later now, my reaction is basically something along the lines of 'ergh, get over yourself'. Her character is very good at criticising and putting other people down intellectually, but isn't very good at providing solutions to the issues she raises (funnily enough, this is directly addressed in an episode, but she doesn't really seem to be affected by it). (i know I'm probably taking this too seriously but... yeah... Daria really isn't as cool as it used to be. Would recommend you re-watching it to see what I mean)

@burner1303

4 жыл бұрын

@@ihaveanametoo I agree, but I still think she's likable. She's got an ego and a superiority complex as many real teenagers do, and as I certainly did as a teenager. I re-watched Daria as well recently, and found the whole show to do a pretty good job of showing that every character is flawed in various ways, including Daria.

@cianap.281

4 жыл бұрын

@@ihaveanametoo I think the show did a good job of addressing the limitations of nihilistic sarcasm through the last season and showing Daria be more vulnerable and grow out of this (painfully). But I think her attitude isn't as cool for two reasons: 1. we're older now and exercising control over our surroundings is a part of our life that teenagers genuinely don't have. Teens have to cope with being old enough to see problems but having next to no agency to do anything about it. And angry sarcasm with no solutions is a pretty realistic expression of this that adults have the luxury to reject. And 2. times have changed and everyone including teens assumes and expects to be able to make themselves heard online and affect the world in a way they couldn't when Daria came out. Daria was incredibly isolated and felt defeated, like a lot of weird teens did, whereas nowadays she'd probably find others like her online and join some communities, and would probably be more solution-focused instead of stewing in pithy resentment. It does feel grating nowadays to see someone putting down the people around them for the crime of being normal and I'm glad media has moved on from that trope, but I don't necessarily think it means Daria ages badly as a character the way, say, Carrie from Sex and the City or Ross from Friends did. She's a true representation of a real phenomenon of the 90s, something you can see in Ghost World and Reality Bites as well; and it's not like 90s people were just inherently less mature than nowadays, instead I think times changed and allowed us/society an outlet to behave in a more mature way, really.

Hi T1J, I'm about 4 years late here, but I'm fascinated by this topic and Richard Dawkins was my personal villain in all that. I think there's a really important conversation to be had about pseudoscience and scientific literacy in the world today, in the same vein as writers like Carl Sagan and Stephen J Gould were doing in the 80s and 90s. And people like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins as well. It's very strange and sad how "new atheism" has become a political conservative hate movement that's completely divorced from the secular and scientific discussion it originally was. I'd love to see the other three videos if you ever decide to do them...........

I've gotta say, your own introspection is really helping me through a formative time in my life. I'm 27 and I've been looking back in the person I've been and realizing it's not who i want to be. Your content is an indispensable resource for me. I appreciate lessons learned the hard way, and that you don't want others to make the same mistakes you've made.

I like Sam Harris quite a lot. I also find this to be a fair-minded critique. Job well done!

@brucesmith54

5 жыл бұрын

I find it embarrassing you need Sam to water down or sugar coat his speech...not on the merits of the logic of it, but because of how some third party may interpret it.

@theartofpiano6405

5 жыл бұрын

Bruce Smith Was your response directed at me, or the video creator? I think I can clarify if you were speaking directly to me. :-)

@scabsareus

5 жыл бұрын

@@brucesmith54 Ideas are nothing if you cannot present them in a way that will be informative but also cognisant of opposing view points and how to disect them in a way that can alter someones viewpoint.

@theartofpiano6405

5 жыл бұрын

@Casey Brown Anyone who has a thought process such as yours, in tandem with a Peppy Hare profile pic, is alright by me! haha :-)

5 жыл бұрын

👍🏼

I like the way you try to evaluate as reasonably and objectively as possible.

@johnfoppiano7058

6 жыл бұрын

AronRa interesting🤔

@hans-joachimbierwirth4727

6 жыл бұрын

AronRa, you are well known to be a bigot of epic proportions, so there is no need to crawl out of your bed and reassure us who you are.

@AronRa

6 жыл бұрын

I am well known to oppose bigotry, but as I demonstrated here, I am clearly not a bigot myself.

@xX1Mankrik3Xx

6 жыл бұрын

Hans-Joachim Bierwirth it would appear that you are making a claim without providing evidence, so unless you have examples of Aron demonstrating a repeatedly bigoted behavior, we can dismiss your claim accordingly.

@hans-joachimbierwirth4727

6 жыл бұрын

Listen, AronRa, you are applauding a video that has no other content than a talking point invented by the Ayatollahs (farsi for "signsofgod") and spread by the Muslim Brotherhood, and on that basis you want to deny that you are a bigot? C'mon, seriously. That's hilarious. A bigot calling out Sam Harris (who may have his flaws, and may deserve criticism for his political views, his rather weak debating style, or his misrepresentations of ancient texts) for what: islamophobia (?) and you are applauding to that calling that reasonable and objective. Seriously man, you are joke if you don't realize what you did here.

Woah love the vocab word of the day : Gish Gallop! Went and read about this term and debate tactic and wow I have seen it in use so much and never known there was a term to describe it! It’s such a hard practice to debate against by any person debating in good faith. Its impossible to keep up with the deluge of new points or tangents. You see a lot of lecturing intellectuals or talking heads use it to overwhelm any honest person trying to address their points or thinking. It leaves the person seeming less intelligent or not as well spoken as they try to communicate with the Gish Galloper. In the last month since watching this I have continued to see this used by characters like Sam Harris, Stephen Crowder, especially Ben Shapiro!

I met Hitchens in college before I knew who he was. He was a speaker at the beginning of my freshman year and later spoke at my lit class. My lit professor was a former nun and knew him personally. He was intimidating and clearly hung over at 8am on a wednesday.

I just started watching your video's and I completely agree with you. I went thru almost exactly the same process as you with Sam Harris but have not been able to express as well as you did. I really wish a couple of the new atheist youtubers that fanboy a little too hard on Sam Harris will watch this and take it to hart.

@JR-xv6mv

4 жыл бұрын

Check out Big Joel, if you don't already know him. He's pure joy, and super good at calling out bullshit. There's also Some More News. If you can get over him trying to be the next John Oliver, he's critical of Harris too.

@billiejean685

3 жыл бұрын

@@JR-xv6mv thank you for for the recommendations

@juanmireles8756

3 жыл бұрын

I understood Sam's views on religion before he was born. Nothing new there. His views on society belong to an amateur who just discovered he can have an opinion. His view on policing is very narrow and shortsighted. If he is espousing a white supremacy narrative without intention, he is just a useful idiot. I've been a follower of Sam for quite some time now. Studied all his books and I know he is a scientist and at least agnostic. I threw the god line there just to provoke a reaction and vent my frustration about how Sam can be so right in his field BUT soooo wrong on social issues. He clearly emphasizes the white supremacy narrative carefully; cherry picking data that would make him appear "Objective". This time, he's clearly on the wrong side of History. He reminds me of Candace Owens, a black skinned white supremacist. And Kanye West to boot. Sam Harris, I'm no longer a fan. You are cancelled.

@JR-xv6mv

3 жыл бұрын

Juan Mireles amen

@torpidfella293

3 жыл бұрын

Check out, Dr.Zakir Naik. You will not regret it.

For me it came down to his defence of Israel and the IDF after they murdered dozens of protestors last year

@ladyylva2492

4 жыл бұрын

For me, it was the way he spoke of Trump and Hillary (so absolutely childish and ridiculous, not fit for someone like him), and how he said free speech is for the likes of him... but not for the likes of people who have questions about the official narrative of history. "They don't even deserve a platform", he said.

@Oners82

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, his views on Israel are pretty disgusting.

@trapped_monkey

4 жыл бұрын

Lady Ylva second part is too ambiguous. What questions on the narrative of history?

@ladyylva2492

4 жыл бұрын

@@trapped_monkey Vague on purpose, due to algorithm. More specific would be WW2 and some kind of juice.

@trapped_monkey

4 жыл бұрын

Lady Ylva WW2, like holocaust denial? I wouldn't give them a platform either.

Sam's an interesting dude, but he's fallen way down my playlist over the past few years.

If someone's only an atheist because an authority told them to be, then they've missed the point and squandered a perfectly good learning experience. You can just as easily stumble into atheism by accident, as you can reach it through reason. I do think atheism is the most reasonable conclusion, but if you can't explain in your own words how you got here, it doesn't count for much.

@mjintegrale

3 жыл бұрын

In part true but I'm a convert. I accidentally came across atheists through Richard Dawkins and Hitchens is a huge influence on me but as I grow older and 8 years into my non belief I am still influenced by these and others although I draw my non belief from my own wellbeing being an atheist but also I'm starting to disagree with those who influenced me not on atheism and non belief but on my own values I have from that non belief.

@elvarestep3323

3 жыл бұрын

@@mjintegrale I love Christopher Hitchens. The rest of the four I've never really liked and the rest of the ashiest movement is kind of annoying (except Jimmy Snow), but Hitchens was an excellent man. He's also the only one with real credibility, being a serious and respected journalist in the 60's and 70's, I had no idea he had anything to do with the other three people.

@kendroctopus

3 жыл бұрын

Hard disagree. Atheism by itself is just the absence of belief.

@suspicaxrohde2310

3 жыл бұрын

@@kendroctopus That's kind of his point. You don't need to be a super rational person who considers all the evidence to be an atheist. For example, if I don't believe in unicorns because I find the idea of a horn growing out of an animal's head absurd. I may have reached a correct conclusion that there are no unicorns (at least in traditional depictions), but I have not used good arguments to do so. Therefore, just because someone's a charismatic atheist doesn't mean they're experts at finding good arguments or thinking rationally.

@Itachi99035

3 жыл бұрын

I too found atheism on my own, i just found Sam Harris not gonna lie i see him as an actual intellectual that is soft spoken with a calm charisma. I see why people idolise him. But I do agree with you on the experience of finding atheism through reason and not to go from one cult like following to another.

Nice channel man. I'll have to check out more of your videos. Was thinking about creating something like this myself just to vent a bit. As for your video, I have noticed a lot of what you mention on here. Although like most of my heroes, their early work is usually the best before they become a MacDonald version of the gourmet burger they used to be. Similar to many of my musical heroes that went down the tubes, I try to give reverence to the doors they opened and the platforms they created for us all to stand on and see further over the hedge. Hopefully Sam reaches a level of self honesty and pursuit of the truth before his desire to be right and dominate intellectually overshadows the work he has actually accomplished. I enjoyed your video, you are very articulate and captivating. Good work.

I consider myself quite the fan of Sam Harris, but I wouldn’t say you were being unfair. It was a thoughtful and well considered critique, even if i may not agree on every point. Good job.

@omarsharif2995

5 жыл бұрын

I liked him until I started following prof Noam Chomsky. Then Sam became a shallow man to me.

@Dan16673

5 жыл бұрын

@@omarsharif2995 chomsky lost me when he wont even admit daniel Everett COULD have possibly found exceptions to his language theory. I cannot stand people who wont even entertain the possibility of being wrong.

@zeusmasterson4117

5 жыл бұрын

AdlockHungry His bigotry is very gross.

@willowarkan2263

5 жыл бұрын

At least his fans seem more reasonable than what I've seen from Peterson fans, at least as far as KZread comments on critical videos are concerned. Not sure about the other 2 in the intellectual dark web.

@HadBabits

4 жыл бұрын

​@@willowarkan2263 I mean, Peterson's cult of personality is basically centered around 'being right'. Dawkins and Harris also attract a lot of 'very smart's, but it's not because their work lacks any merit.

I've always loved anti-SJW videos. But I've also always had a feeling of discomfort maybe because on some level I knew these people are cherry picking the worst of the worst and mocking them, just to promote their own ideologies. Now I understand precisely why. You've articulated my thoughts better than I ever could have. SUBSCRIBED!

@tdns01

3 жыл бұрын

Same here - and also a lot of indulgence in sjw cringe. I actually can’t enjoy cringe anymore after watching Contrapoints video on it.

@vkrgfan

2 жыл бұрын

I’m still yet to find a SJW that can have a productive conversation. Most of them are just keyboard warriors, on the intellectual level they stand no where near Sam Harris.

I just discovered your videos and I’ve only watched a few but I have to tell you: your writing style is on par with any op-ed magazine columnist I’ve read. What an incredible talent.

At this point he's flat out repeating 13/50, so you definitely made the right move

@theshortestcharles6886

3 жыл бұрын

@Brett Sylvester yeah of course those statistics are true. so what? why does it matter? what do you want to do to solve the issues behind it?

@maddhatter6938

3 жыл бұрын

Okay? The 13/50 statistic is very relevant when discussing issues of policing and justice in the US. It’s also a fascinating sociological phenomenon which is worth understanding and studying.

@leolong2984

3 жыл бұрын

@@maddhatter6938 I believe they may have been referencing problematic interpretations of the 13/50 idea. Not gonna speak for OP here, just my understanding, but like, there are many ways people have chosen to understand that statistic, and often times it is referenced in an edgy context wherein the speaker is attempting to make an argument for racial profiling, which Harris has a history of. For example, a white person may hear that 13/50 argument and then feel empowered to mistrust more black people and reinforce their pre existing prejudices, or maybe police start feeling even more justified to stop and arrest black men purely for being black, because hey statistics don't lie right? Like you said, it is worth understanding and studying, but let's be honest, the internet does not inherently foster nuanced anthropological, sociological, and political theory debates, and often times complex issues get boiled down into oversimplified problems with oversimplified solutions. I mean, 13/50 is case in point. Back to the original post, I could be wrong, but I think they were using 13/50 as short hand for referencing racial profiling endorsed by Harris, and not the statistic itself. TL;DR I agree, debate is important, and sociological statistics have value, but this person was just making a general statement about how the figure in question has really gone off the deep end with racial profiling. Fellow academic here by the way, hope this didn't come across as overly sarcastic, you clearly were making a good point, it just doesn't really apply in this particular thread (thanks for reading my dissertation if you did the whole thing XD)

@maddhatter6938

3 жыл бұрын

@@leolong2984 I had no idea that Sam Harris has used the 13/50 statistic to support racial profiling. If so, I disagree with him entirely on that point. I agree with everything you said.

@leolong2984

3 жыл бұрын

@@maddhatter6938 Oh I have no idea in regards to what Harris said specifically in regards to 13/50 actually lol just clarifying the original posters position based on interpretation, and I think the 13/50 thing was shorthand/slang in the OP. I'm relatively young generationally and so the Four Horsemen are little before my time, so my knowledge of them is relatively superficial at best. All I do know about Harris in particular is from this video and articles where he talked about racial profiling being an effective solution (though he was referencing Brown individuals who he conflated with Islamics and thus terrorists, still bad for similar reasons of course). I figured you weren't endorsing anything problematic by any means, just clearing some air to avoid a potential misunderstanding lol hope you are safe in this hecked up world we are in right now!

I was not at all sure what I would think when I started watching this video - I was concerned it was going to be a biased rant. In fact I think this came across as well balanced, well researched material and very well presented. I found the arguments compelling. Thank you.

His statement about a preemptive nuclear first strike against Muslims in found in his book End of Faith, in the chapter "The problem with Islam." Yet he keeps saying people take him out of context...

So basically in the end as you've grown in your adult years you stopped putting Sam on a pedestal and realized he's just a man who like many men and women, is always trying to think critically about important discussions but like many of us, will no doubt be wrong or at least misinformed at many points throughout life. Congratulations, you are now a more level headed thinker. I myself also appreciate Sam's thoughts on many topics and have followed his writings, videos and podcast material for years. Of course I don't always agree with him but of the few individuals who have such a public platform reach like he has in this day in age, I believe he is still one of the more balanced nuanced thinkers of our time. I'm sure if Christopher Hitchens was still with us today videos like this would have eventually been made about him too. In the end, these guys are just fallible humans like the rest of us. Go figure. By the way, since you used the article of "In Defense of Profiling" as an example of his rhetorical style (something he wrote almost 10 years ago), I just want to mention to any potential reader of this comment that he also posted a guest response by Bruce Schneier about a month later called "The Trouble With Profiling" to again provide a nuance conversation about his initial stance on the issue.

@hughgibson6368

3 жыл бұрын

Well said

@chasz3776

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed... in fact those videos of Hitchens already exist as he was a supporter of the invasion of Iraq.

@chasz3776

3 жыл бұрын

@Rick Well, he had his reasons. Not that I agreed with any of them but he sure seems confident in his position as he did on everything else he discussed.

@vkrgfan

2 жыл бұрын

I totally agree, just because Sam Harris is a Neuroscientist, doesn’t mean he reached intellectual pinnacle and stopped growing and evolving in his views.

Sam Harris responds to his critics because it is very easy for someone to destroy your reputation when discussing controversial topics. If he ignores it, thoughts of him being a racist, for example, lingers. That is a strong accusation that can ruin his career. It's completely rational for him to protect himself from idiots. When he is defending his claims, it is far from a public tantrum.

@2cleverbyhalf

6 жыл бұрын

He intentionally picks fights with larger fish so that he can "debate:" them and raise his profile. He is so thirsty for attention he publishes private emails with his intellectual superiors without their permission. I have no respect for that sort of tactic to get name recognition

@2cleverbyhalf

6 жыл бұрын

C Man, you need to read a book called Gun, Germs, and Steel, then get back to me.

@LunaticThinker

6 жыл бұрын

@Ghazal Did he really say that? I can't believe he would, that's real unfortunate... I mean, even our numbers come from there. Most of the visible stars in the sky they've named. These people did some really good thing (before shit hit the fan).

@snapgab

6 жыл бұрын

@Ghazal Mohamed. I don't know if I've seen exactly which podcast episode you're talking about, but from what I've heard him say on the topic, all he disputes is the claim that Islam is responsible for all the accomplishments at the time. What I've heard him say on the topic is that the golden age wasn't because of Islam, but despite Islam, I've never seen him say that no meaningful accomplishments were ever made at that time.

@andrewjenkinson8948

6 жыл бұрын

I have a very low opinion of Sam Harris, but I would defend him against accusations of racism. I don't think he's racist. I just think a blend of narcissistic self-pity and intellectual laziness has informed his highly unimpressive defence of The Bell Curve (for which he has rightly received harsh backlash, and resorted once again to self-pity and succour from alt-right/light nitwits).

Great video. I’d say a part of getting wiser as years pass is recognizing not to put large amounts of faith into one individual. I have yet to find a public figure worth idolizing. Sam Harris is awesome for many reasons but is as flawed a human as anyone else.

I know this video is a bit older (and I'm RE-watching it). But toward the middle of the video, when talking about when you started to reevaluate Harris, you mention having been a fairly arrogant young man. Right there with you! In fact, that resonated with me because I was an arrogant young guy at the same time I was really active in atheist forums. Atheism - and really, antitheism, became part of my identity. I am imagining that it might have been the same with you? I'm still an atheist - as it seems you are - but I've tried to leave the arrogant antitheism behind me. So what you said there just resonated with me. :)

I just found your channel and I truly love your content. We are living in a Gish Gallop world. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!

I'm really happy you made this video and admitted you were part of the kind of cult surrounding atheist leaders currently. I was also this way after leaving religion and didnt realize how I went from following one dogma to another, it took almost 2 years for me to realize I needed to look as critically at people whom I agreed with as those I disagreed with and point out their problematic beliefs and behaviors. Its definitely a journey for each person but thankfully we are always able to change when we keep our minds open

@michelen5728

3 жыл бұрын

What is the dogma of atheism? Thanks

@cmhardin37

3 жыл бұрын

@@michelen5728 there isn't one

@tristanneal9552

2 жыл бұрын

@@michelen5728 there is no dogma of atheism. But I think what @Sara H was getting at is that there's a kind of dogma surrounding these "four horsemen" anti-theists that, much like religion, leaves their fans not questioning their worldview.

@anakides

2 жыл бұрын

You jumped from one pot to another, and I hate to break it to you but it's pots all the way down. It's better to think of "religion" as a part of human psychology than magic book.

I agree with what most of you said in this video. Generally speaking I appreciate balanced, nuanced and reasonable criticisms and critiques of people I follow and ideas I agree with. This video was refreshing in a sea of other videos/tweets/articles that do in fact, either intentionally or unintentionally, misrepresent his views on Islam. I found your critiques to be very fair. My biggest critique of him is his naïveté of the “intentions” of US foreign policy. I actually do agree with his point that intentions do actually matter. However his biggest flaw is the assumption that our intentions are good in regards to our foreign policy. On Joe Rogan I believe it was, he said something along the lines of “All America wants is there to be peace and democracy. To America any innocent person killed in the crossfire is a tragedy, and it’s not our intent to kill them.” This is completely false. We do not want to spread freedom and democracy through our foreign policy. Our foreign policy facilitates Western Corporations having easy access to foreign resources (mainly oil). In 1953, we overthrew Mohamed Mossadegh, the secular leader of Iran who wanted to model his county on the freedom of American and European societies, was overthrown by the CIA and MI6, and a fundamentalist dictator was installed. This was because he did not want to sell his oil to the USA and UK for cheap prices, and instead wanted to nationalize the resource. In many ways, with our regime change wars in Libya, Syria and Iraq, we have made things worse in terms of stability and democracy. This is also not to mention the callous indifference we have to civilians dying in drone strikes (over 80%). But Sam thinks we’re basically the Boy Scouts. His foreign policy beliefs are at least partially motivated by the idea of American exceptionalism.

@JoeBlue415

5 жыл бұрын

I agree with you on this point. His comment is so naive, that it’s hard to believe he said it.

@didjesbydan

5 жыл бұрын

This comment is what I was looking for, thanks! US intentions and track record are perhaps Harris's biggest blind spot and it merits more than the passing and generalized mention it received in this video.

@didjesbydan

5 жыл бұрын

Maserati7200 In fact, the absurd naivete of Harris's view of US intentions is perhaps the single strongest factor to suspect that, in fact, he is well aware of true US intentions, and is in fact, in favor of those intentions.

@awhodothey

5 жыл бұрын

@masserati7200 Sorry, but the left wing "the US is trying to rule the world, but can't figure out how to do it" narrative is totally false. Mosaddegh is a great example of left wing revisionism. The Shah and the US opposed overthrowing Mosaddegh for years, even if he was strongly linked to the assisination that caused his appointment. Mosaddegh was legally fired by the shaw (the second time) after he dissolved parliament and imposed a soviet backed dictatorship because he had lost democratic support. Notice that most countries supported both the Iranian boycott and the Shah. We know what role the US played. We'll never know what role soviet imperialism played. I mean do you blame the US for Al-Qaeda, but not the USSR? The modern leftist revisionism of that story is even more clear. It would be like blaming china for Viet Nam... There's a lot of ideological narrative passing for history, and it comes from people like Noam Chomsky, who said China had "truer democracy" than the US in 1969, during Mao's cultural revolution. People like that have been lying by omission, only telling one side of the story, and getting away with never having to admit when they are completely wrong. The cold War was not mostly about American exceptionalism or greed. It was about soviet colonialism and communist exceptionalism.

@didjesbydan

5 жыл бұрын

Great Moose Detective haha talk about ideological narrative!

Subscribed on this video intro alone. Looking forward to the rest!

I don’t get why people make their brains an open sponge to ANY person. Testing people’s thoughts is a good thing.

As an exmuslim, I can assure you Sam Harris is right on Islam.

@FatherManus

6 жыл бұрын

err I think I'd rather trust a ex Muslim that actually woke up and realized his beliefs were bullshit over someone that still believes in it. Islam is the worst.

@jimmyjimmy551

6 жыл бұрын

err no actually he is right. I dont care if you are muslim, ex muslim or whatever. That doesnt change the fact that Islam is hateful, genocidal and very unhealthy for the people that really take it serious. Read your holy book.

@jimmyjimmy551

6 жыл бұрын

err so you take the Koran for the perfect word of god?

@jimmyjimmy551

6 жыл бұрын

err and why dont you kill nonbelievers?

@jimmyjimmy551

6 жыл бұрын

err and is a woman worth less than a man?

For me is was his American exceptionalism. After watching his debate with Noam Chomsky I lost a lot of respect for him.

@anarchsnark

4 жыл бұрын

That was EMBARRASSING for Harris. Honestly it shows why Harris is not taken seriously in academic Poli Sci circles. And we all know Harris is so protective of his reputation that when he heard that apparently Chomsky said something negative about him (it's in the exchange), he tried to argue WAY above his weight class and he embarrassed himself.

Every time I watch one of your videos I find myself feeling both encouraged by the level-headed, nuanced analysis you bring to the table, and discouraged that this is a breath of fresh air from the wildly different atmosphere of mainstream political discussions. You do such a good job thinking through your position without jumping to conclusions and then present that position in an honest, but respectful way that never feels like you're pushing your worldview on anyone. Keep up the awesome work... Here's hoping it's contagious!

"you shouldn't have to analyze multiple podcasts and hours of videos to decide whether someone is a bigot".. this was a particularly bizarre comment.. what are you advocating as an alternative? Should we, as listeners, just cherry pick which statements we pay attention to instead? Or perhaps people doing podcasts should misrepresent their own views and avoid saying anything remotely controversial in order to protect themselves from any possible accusations of bigotry? Maybe trying to establish the precise extent to which somebody is bigoted shouldn't be the ultimate objective. It certainly isn't necessary in order to decide whether that person's arguments make sense

@w.8424

3 жыл бұрын

This is a great observation. My only response is this is just a KZread video by a KZreadr, you shouldn't expect the highest level of anything all the time. Allow some room for slipping and benefit of doubt to this guy. Even though his sense of humour is kinda weird

The objectivity, detachment and nuance in your videos is the perfect antidote to the gradual degradation of discourse that the twitter era has brought about. I appreciate your work, . The only dispiriting thing is the thought that there are tens of thousands of videos made in the opposite vein for every one of yours... I went through a similar thing in the last few years with Dawkins. I always found Harris to be a bit tepid, and was more attracted to the academic rigour of Dawkins and Hitchens (I must add that there are a whole generation of biologists to whom Dawkins' atheist work is a mere footnote, albeit a long one, to his academic career-he was a formidable teacher at Oxford). It has been dispiriting to find that he has become quite indefensible latterly with his twitter escapades, and whilst it is possible to put much of it down to the inevitable follies of social media use, you would naturally expect better from somebody who is so clearly able to consider the impact of the things he writes. The militant atheism thing in general has also lost its allure for me. The moment I realised that all of those 'Dawkins/Hitchens DESTROYS religious argument/person' videos are borne of the same propaganda template as those archetypal alt-right videos, I started to see the problem. There is no easy way out, the temptation to believe that you have the right to be indignant about something is great, but actually the only way to approach these issues effectively is as you do, with thorough research and self-scrutiny. You are an example for us all.

@HadBabits

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I also was a Dawkins fan. I eventually realized I was more concerned with feeling superior and being 'right' than any injustices caused by religion. Fortunately I started gaining some humility and perspective by adulthood; and do my best to maintain that trend to this day :) Not to discredit his own work, which I still respect. I don't even want to claim that his own aggression towards the harm religion causes is disingenuous or unfounded, even if I personally think it's often counter-productive. I think the real problem is the toxic 'very smart' folks he attracts. Then, when he gets called out over whatever and feels attacked, it's this community that will defend vehemently defend him, encouraging him to appeal and listen to that toxic base, and perpetuating a nasty cycle. I feel like that happens with a lot of public figures.

@heliusqarry8421

4 жыл бұрын

man you're smart holy shit. this was well put, i envy your writing, structure and premise in a paragraph its simply amazing, im terrible at grammar and writing so funn to see such long paragraph being so easily digestible.

@ThatCoCoa

4 жыл бұрын

The irony. These figures preach logic and reasoning. Then their audience develops enough logic and reasoning to unfollow them.

@RictusHolloweye

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThatCoCoa - the ultimate goal of the teacher is to produce a superior student.

@ThatCoCoa

3 жыл бұрын

Akray Bothorda Wise words

@13:05 "Now I'm pretty sure that Sam would deny that he thinks Islam is worse than other religions, on paper." Based on what? Everything I know about Sam Harris suggests he would indeed think that, and he's said as much a number of times. I'm not saying this to attack him - I largely agree with the statement - but simply to counter a point you have raised. Which religions - on paper - would you cite as being 'worse' than Islam? Which faith's doctrines do you feel pose a greater threat to Western culture and liberal values? On reflection, I am absolutely positive tham Sam would say that Islam is worse than other religions.

@WigganNuG

6 жыл бұрын

100% agree and now I don't have to say it! You saved me a lot of time. :)

@fudgymcfudgerson6291

6 жыл бұрын

The "motherload of bad ideas" as hes said. But remember, hes white :( Something worth pointing out apparently... lmao

@help4343

6 жыл бұрын

I know, 15:20 on this very video is a clip of Sam Harris making the case that the Quran is the most harmful scripture, and that coupled with the life of its founder, Muhammad, make it instrinctly the worst religion

@MrTlong2010

6 жыл бұрын

+Ece Boran "The religion in the Old Testament is absolutely the worst religion ever." I'm pretty sure Sam actually said this somewhere. Maybe in his Cenk interview? Though, he's also said that the Bible (especially including the New Testament) is more contradictory and less streamlined than the Quran.

@pondboy3682

6 жыл бұрын

S L, as far as I recall, there's no written encouragement to marry children in any part of the Bible or Quran. However, the culture of the ancient Middle East has long been known to regard any girl in menstruation cycles to be "old enough". The mother of Jesus is supposed by many religious scholars to have been about 12-15 years old when she conceived. It seems sick to us now, but Mohammed was far from unique in marrying such a young girl. What makes most sense to me is that the reason the Quran seems streamlined is that a merchant of the Silk Road with open ears gleaned the easier bits of Judaism, Christianity, and science, and, without much help, put them together with a simple purpose in mind for his own people. Other monotheistic religions had many more authors, and when there's an outlandishly extreme verse by one author, there's generally another author that tames it. (Contradiction, or context, depending how far down the rabbit hole you've gone.)

I discovered your work today and I have been blowing through your videos! Best part of my day 💛 Also, I'm adding "add it to the tally" to my resume of fun phrases.

The closing note touches on the principle I call the Vanity of Authority. Being considered right so often, one assumes mantel of authority, and once done, challenges presented are in conflict of vanity of position of dominance, and so dismissed, rather than meeting the posed challenge itself.

I really liked your description of how you've changed and where you were wrong. Much to think about, thank you.

As far as anti-theist, sam Harris, bill Maher, and seth MacFarlane are cut from the same vein. I'm a Christian, and I respect your God your choice or nonbelief, but there's a way to speak to opposition without absolute disrespect as well as for people faith to do the same

@AshDemonYoung

5 жыл бұрын

If someone came up to you professing the Olympians to be the true Gods and sincerely believed it because centuries ago someone made art and wrote books about them, you'd probably act with the same derision as the people you mentioned above.

@xPurpleDrinkx9001

5 жыл бұрын

@@AshDemonYoung And if he didnt?

@DirtyPoul

4 жыл бұрын

That's one of my problems as well. The problem is not faith. The problem is unsecular faith.

@mellakat80

4 жыл бұрын

@@AshDemonYoung that's making an assumption of what I would think to back your narrative. You're still trying to prove a point that is not viable. If you believe in that, you believe in it. I don't but that doesn't change how I would treat you. It's about respect. Not what you believe in a hypothetical argument

"[Harris] can accuse you of misrepresenting him because he hasn't really represented anything of substance to begin with." (10:15) Thank you! You've clearly represented what it is that pisses *me* off about Sam "Gish Galloping" Harris, he says way too much poorly.

@itWouldBeWise

3 жыл бұрын

I'd be interested in your best counterargument for a single Sam Harris argument. I don't think his positions are poorly represented, nor that he often engages in gish galloping (even though it's possible to do so against theists in a way where it seems like gish galloping but in reality it is just a lot of pretty much irrefutable points that demolish their claims and, even if they spent lots of time trying to produce good counterpoints, there really aren't good counterpoints to be made) but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise if you can produce evidence to the contrary.

@LotusHart01

3 жыл бұрын

@@itWouldBeWise Agreed. I regard Sam as a rarity in that he doesn’t drag out or obfuscate points. Whereas someone like Jordan Peterson, who I admire in different ways, can dance around topic without ever simplifying his point.

Please what is the song that starts at 18:35? It is so beautiful. The harmonic background tune around 19:10 is amazing.

Here’s the irony: You idolized Sam Harris and identified with what you perceive to be his worldview, yet Sam Harris’ worldview is centered on the belief that you shouldn’t identify with anything material, such as your health or possessions, nor anything egoistic such as your thoughts. Not only did you identify with his views, but you idolized the man himself. You did exactly what he warns against.

@eme.261

5 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂 Sure. Sure. Sam doesn't do everything he can to remain relevant to his fans-- it's not as if his ability to make money depends on this. He AND his fans lack awareness of the paradox that is Sam Harris.

@karate2252

5 жыл бұрын

True

@tinyrobot9989

5 жыл бұрын

Well this is weired cause if that is the case then sam Harris's statement and his world view would be an oxymoron. He says to not identify with your thoughts, but he is a man of science who himself is a hard core atheist. so, he certainly identifies as an atheist. which he probably decided by himself based on his own thoughts, didn't he? He idebtifies himself to be a man doesn't he? or does he see no difference between him and a chim. I am sure he does in fact thinks him and a chimp are different on many levels and he himself would point that out that they indeed both different physically and mentally. But if he identifyes himself as a man then by considers himself to be one and thinking that he is a man. he is going against his beliefs . So, is his word view only applicable to other people. Or is he trying to say that he is open minded and non biased. The problem with non identification with thoughts is that you as a person are made of thought and experiences and your sense of self is just a collection of thoughts. Sometimes in the past baby sam Harrison probably thought of becoming a neuro- scientist if Sam didn't have that though then he wouldn't be a neuro scientist . It is good to be open minded, but don't open your mind so much that it falls off- carl sagan.

@KD-ou2np

5 жыл бұрын

What the hell am I supposed to "identify" with if its neither my thoughts, emotions, nor my phyiscal well being? I have goals in my life and intellectual curiosity but I also enjoy simple things, like cooking. Or art.

@irockmajorly

4 жыл бұрын

@@tinyrobot9989 hes stated many times he doesnt like being associated with the atheist crowd though

What do I think of this? Well sir I think you did a great job. I'm a 38 year old left leaning, atheist and skeptic. As I get older I question my heroes. I too am growing despondent with my base and I think real criticism of ourselves is needed. Why do we hold on to ideas that most of us don't even understand. You feed my brain today. I'll take another. Great job.

I feel like the end of this video really nails it. Sam Harris gets defensive when he's criticized because he assumes he's already correct and/or being misunderstood. If he were as smart as he thinks he is, he would pause to consider the possibility he's said something wrong

@Jonnie-Falafel

3 жыл бұрын

He's one of the least defensive, most willing to listen to criticism of his arguments, person I've ever come across.

@williamcarter8263

3 жыл бұрын

@Jonathan Smith The video said the exact opposite of that.

@amiradil1060

3 жыл бұрын

Great observations.

Quick addition for those who are unfamiliar with the details: Richard Dawkins is most famous for his Evolutionary History popular science books. He wrote one book on religion called the God Delusion, explaining his position. But it's certainly not his best work, and his most famous title is The Selfish Gene, famous especially amongst biologists. Other titles include An Ancestors Tale, The extended Phenotype (follows the selfish gene), Unweaving the rainbow, The Magic of Reality, Climbing Mount Probable...

Dude, how have I missed your channel all these years? Subscribed with a quickness.

“he can accuse you of misrepresenting him because he hasn’t represented anything of substance to begin with.“ That sums it up. Spot on

First video I've watched of you, and I'm looking forward to the next one. I really like your fair, composed assessment of Sam Harris. It describes accurately the good and the bad experiences I have had with his statements. Fair assessments are rare nowadays, and they are so much more valuable then the "x DESTROYS y" videos. So thank you for that, and keep it up! :)

Hey T1J, I really appreciate this video as it expresses a lot of the jumbled thoughts I've been having recently about Harris. I first discovered Sam as a teen when I was first exploring atheism, and then re-connected a few years ago when I found his podcast. I've gotten a lot of value out of it, but I've also come to realize, as you did, that just because I agree with him on some really major philosophical tenets, it doesn't mean he's correct about every topic he takes on, or even worth listening to. I've been untangling those concepts more and more recently. I'm a HUGE fan of his work on meditation and I've been using his meditation app for the past year and a half, but I recently stopped listening to his podcast regularly because my conflicting feelings about him were interfering with my ability to get full value out of meditation content. Since this is an older video, I'm very curious if you've explored his app at all?

Thank you for this, you've helped to articulate my own concerns/problems with Sam Harris better than I could. I also appreciate your comments on the need for compassion in discourse, I couldn't agree more.

@doglover321kanimaljamfan6

5 жыл бұрын

Stating facts isnt missprofiling and not racist,

@SoloDallasII

5 жыл бұрын

I was surprised he didn't point out how utterly incoherent Harris' profiling argument was at its core: he says a white guy like him is not exempt from scrutiny, "but there are people who do not stand a chance of being jihadists, and TSA screeners can tell" and that they should be able to profile based on race. He's contradicting himself. Not to mention how asinine it is to suggest that TSA screeners can tell who stands zero chance of being a jihadi.

@JoshuaRichardson123

5 жыл бұрын

Same here. I like Sam but he just seems to be a little closed minded when he talks about certain religions.

@WillDanceAlone2U

5 жыл бұрын

Send me the titles of your research, books, talks and podcasts, etc for the past couple decades. I'd love to hear you say. Or will you be just a two-liner on the KZread comment line concerned?

@BlakeMiller

5 жыл бұрын

wf

Y'all are taking the term "idolize" way too literally. Calm down.

@J_The_Colossal_Squid

5 жыл бұрын

A literal comparison of a person to an idol is that of a person to an inanimate object.

@badmiddens

5 жыл бұрын

​@@J_The_Colossal_Squid Well. That makes being called someones idol, way less flattering!! :)

@komlat253

5 жыл бұрын

Lol thats what im saying .sounds like offense honestly. This guy by no means gives off a "blind follower guy" so dont assume it and argue against something not ment .

@saquist

4 жыл бұрын

I think they like many know idolize means mindless mob and Harris definitely has those kind of followers...not all but quite a few.

Great observations, T1J and all. He definitely overreaches with what he "knows", "understands" and makes inaccurate or simple vague conclusions. But I've never bothered to care if he's right because there are no practical applications and implications. When he tries to come up with something, you get "profiling" which he is unable to indicate how it would ever be done in practice.

Song at 5:40 is Lullaby by Yung Logos.

8:07 --> 10:50 you put your finger on what makes sam so slippery. thank you from this first-time viewer.

This was great. I went through a similar experience with Harris.

This was great, I appreciate your honesty about your personal headspace in all of this. I'd love to know what you think about Harris' response to the BLM movement?

I gave you an upvote because of the "gish gallop".

@nebtheweb8885

3 жыл бұрын

It is a tactic that all flat earthers use.

I think you are far too generous to Sam Harris, but enjoyed the video anyway.

@highnoble7984

4 жыл бұрын

‼️

@nathanrupley

3 жыл бұрын

Which clown?

"People can know when people are not Jihadists" That must be why it is so easy to identify people who are Jihadists? Is this dishonesty or just dumb?

@stuarttusspot4769

4 жыл бұрын

Do you think a 4-year-old girl could be a Jihadist? Do you think an 80-year-old white dude could be a Jihadist? I'm taking extreme examples here but it's just to show you that there are people that can be easily ruled out as not being Jihadists...

@thijsjong

4 жыл бұрын

Jup you are using extreme examples. Nope we cant read minds and say someone is not a Jihadist. It is not like they have a reason to hide they are a Jihadist. Oh no no wait. They do. So the the OP still stands. Example volunteer stopped working on ships picking up refugees in the Mediterranian when ISIS propaganda was waved in front of his face by one of the refugees. But the refugees would be screened you know. Nope that never happens en lieing is easy.

@catsmom129

3 жыл бұрын

Stuart Tusspot Yes, an 80 yo white guy could be a jihadist. A Jihadist can be anyone who believes in, advocates for, or participates in Jihad. Jihad can mean a spiritual battle against evil, or a military battle for an Islamist state. As for suicide-bombing, well, the 80 yo has less to lose.

@catsmom129

3 жыл бұрын

Amilah Ok, thank you for explaining! I had a very simple understanding so this helps

@muscularclassrepresentativ5663

3 жыл бұрын

@@stuarttusspot4769 I know you commented this six months ago, but actual children have been used in a bunch of suicide attacks at a variety of points throughout history, and I have to assume disguising as an older person could work. Not that you can never narrow the chances of finding someone based on a description... I just thought those were bad examples. You can't ever really sweep a crowd and efficiently know that it doesn't contain threats

This was an accurate and honest assessment. Nice to see a video form someone that can understand there's often nuance in every situation. I got into Sam Harris from his meditation app, and arguments on the lack of free will. Both of these improved my life massively, and I felt the similar feeling that he could do no wrong. He's so articulate, and he's so bang on on certain things, that you begin to value his opinion on all things. When I started to hear grumblings about his views on Islam, it made me take pause though. Like all organised religions (especially Abrahamic) I'm not a fan, but he seems to take it a step too far, at least on the surface. I'm glad you took the time to quote him honestly, and it helped me get a better gauge on where he stands. Fortunately, I don't need to agree with him on everything to take the bits of his work that improved my life.

I am here for that Daria wallpaper.

Dude!! How am I just now finding you. Anyway, what a great, logical, reasoned video. New subscriber here! 👍🏼

Good points. I really liked what Neil deGrasse Tyson said to Sam when they had a conversation a while back. Something about it being your own responsibility to make your public statements as easy understandable as possible and to minimize the potential to be misrepresented. I would recommend their conversation for anyone who hasn't watched it. Of course that advise doesn't completely eliminate the possibility of being misrepresented intentionally, but it surely makes it harder for people to do so. Sad that Sam didn't take this into consideration very much.

@leo9753

6 жыл бұрын

Oh, but I could still listen to Sam for hours and hours, he should just do audio books :) And his criticism of Donald Trump was (and is? Didn't hear much about that topic for some time) very much on point. In general I enjoyed most his podcasts and I will definitely continue doing so if the topic interests me, but I agree that he is not the misunderstood and wilfully misunderstood intellectual giant that many of his fans view him as (me included for some time)

@allenwright89

6 жыл бұрын

The same advice has been frequently given to Richard Dawkins, and he was equally arrogant (or perhaps more so) in brushing it aside as irrelevant ("all that matters is the truth").

@gordonbgraham

6 жыл бұрын

I find Harris often gives easy to understand examples to support his position on most things, usually in the form of thought experiments. He is clear and easy to understand in his statements.

@p.chuckmoralesesquire3965

6 жыл бұрын

yup, maybe if everybody is always taking sam harris out of context, and misunderstanding him, maybe the problem isnt with everybody ?

@mikedavey1996

6 жыл бұрын

Which is exactly why so many politicians and many others never say anything of import except for sound bites. As someone else said in the comments, Tyson almost never says anything that even approaches controversy. He won't even admit he's an atheist.

Abe's voice saying "follow me!"

Nice video, I'm 33 YO and went through a similar phase a few years ago

......he has stopped being the intellectual hero that he once was in my eyes...... But this is absolutely normal man! We grow and evolve. Ultimately it is NOT about having gurus we agree/respect/follow 100% but to help us in finding our own way. Nothing else can substitute for it. Take what is useful and/or helps and move on leaving all the harrises of this world being what they are. Separate human beings.

@jeremywvarietyofviewpoints3104

3 жыл бұрын

All heroes are flawed but you learn something from each of them.

New to the channel. I liked this breakdown. I'm still a fan of Sam Harris for some of the thoughts he has and the way he's able to articulate things. I have found some of his arguing strategies to bother me though, and this video pointed them out really well. Thanks for the video!

This is literally the reason why when I find an appealing person on the internet I look up their name plus the words IS BAD or IS WRONG so I see videos like these before I fully submerge into their psychology and lectures. First Kent Hovind, and then Bill Nye, and then Neil Degrasse Tyson, and now. Sam Harris. Thanks.

@deanpappas8388

2 жыл бұрын

good approach....I'll try it. (although with Matt Gaetz I don't think it's all that necessary LMAO!)

@mockingbxrd

Жыл бұрын

what did bill nye and neil tyson say?

Your journey is so similar to mine coming out of the faith and reading and watching everything from these four and then slowly rethinking a lot. I still feel like there is a place for militant atheism, but I know that while I'd borrow some of their arguments, I'd never speak like them in normal conversation because it would be incredibly offputting and ruin relationships, despite me being "right" about whatever. Does Sam have responsibility for what a large portion of his followers do with his arguments? YES! "Maybe it's you, Sam!"

Excellent essay! I wish there could be more honest and in-depth critique of people like Sam Harris without resorting to the same barrel-scraping, insult-baiting tactics that people far-right of center often use, but alas, people like Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson and the like are experts at utilizing vagueness and plausible deniability to deter hardcore critique of their opinions, and it takes more time than most of us have to deliver that well-researched criticism. Keep it up T1J - If youtube can be populated by right-wing ideologues with little regard to intellectual honesty, you can be the counterpoint to that

@Sharetheroad3333

5 жыл бұрын

James Heelis he did insult. It’s the first thing he did.

Let a Sam fanboi reply : Some journalists once coined the "four horsemen" thing and they thought they would use it, as a joke. None of them take it seriously. Sam I think clearly makes the distinction of when his detractors being honest or dishonest, he's compared the two via examples a bunch of times. I'm interested about the Gish Gallop, can you give me one example of Sam offering a poorly backed / vague argument that he wouldn't be able to defend if more time was aloud in his public talks ? His arguments on the profiling are true even if they rub people the wrong way. Of course, you can debate the morality of checking a 26 year old Muslim man longer than an 80 year old Japanese woman at an airport, but it's hard to question the efficiency of it. The same way you can debate the morality of a cop stopping blacks more often than Chinese, but you know if you're familiar with the stats that he's going to find whatever a cop would be looking for at a higher rare by doing that. I remember ISIS writing themselves on their web platforms that their motivation was Islam, djihad, expanding Islamic law onto the world, killing unbelievers, the promise of the afterlife. How clearer could they have made themselves ? The Quran and hadiths being more likely to provoke violence than the bible. The degree of truth of that statement is verifiable. You can check "the skeptics annotated bible/quran" online and compare how intolerant they are on average, how cruel, what they say on gays etc, verse by verse. I won't get into your Intellectual Dark Web bit because it was the run of the mill - by now debunked - criticism. IQ and Race. You really think the point of the podcast was "discussing how blacks are genetically predisposed to having lower IQ than whites" ? That doesn't sound like a caricature of their talk at all ? You could have said "Does genetics plays a role in universally observed differences in average IQ between any two isolated groups ?" (the answer as far as we know being : probably, given that at the individual level, genetics influences more than 50% of someone's IQ / an adopted child's IQ is closer to his genetics parents' than his adoptive ones)

@gunnyent530

6 жыл бұрын

Read you and Jonnies comments in its entirety. Liked em both👍

@nancybruno7351

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, he lost me at the "Gish Galllop" example. I've listened to about half of Sam's podcasts and I have to say, I've never really heard him use this tactic. In fact, in the one podcast he SHOULD have used it, he was amazingly patient. I'm talking about he Ezra Klein podcast. I really believe Sam gives everyone ample opportunity to complete thoughts without interrupting or talking over or slamming his guests with too much information. As to the Charles Murray debate, an argument can be made that Sam isn't even defending Murray. He's simply defending the science behind the book. If there is science to debunk Murray's book then I believe Sam would defend that as well.

@chessplayer8798

6 жыл бұрын

You can tell this dude is a fanboy,his is obviously too deep in the cult to get out. Good news is,3 years ago,this comment would get 500 likes within hours. Good to see cult is eating itself on the inside.

@UnisusMC

6 жыл бұрын

chessplayer Yes, let me just call you a cultist and not address anything you've actually said, this dismissive attitude is definitely not immature or hypocritical in any way at all!

@chessplayer8798

6 жыл бұрын

In order for me to address his or your points,I would have to consider you or him a honest,worthy person to spend my time with arguing.But I do not. People who are still Sams cultists are irredemable and it is not worth it.

How did you pick the photo of children at 10:39?

Your relationship with Sam Harris is very relateable to me. I went through the exact same process. I would like to think that Sam is actually open to this kind of criticism. I don't believe him to be a lost cause. As you said, his podcast and some of his books articles are still fantastic. I wish he'd see that closely associating himself with fraudsters like Benny Shaparino is terrible for his image.

@ristoravela652

3 жыл бұрын

I think he's very deliberately reaching out to a conservative right-wing audience. Probably with both good and bad motivations.

@torpidfella293

3 жыл бұрын

Check out, Dr.Zakir Naik. You will not regret it.

@TheOakleysworld

3 жыл бұрын

@Brett Sylvester are you okay friend?

@theunbeatable6598

2 жыл бұрын

Nope. Scam Harris is a lost cause

@sravasaksitam

2 жыл бұрын

@@torpidfella293 No