Playing SSF for the first time this league. Its amazing to me how many useful things there are in the game that are completely useless in a trade environment.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Absolutely

@Luggaster

21 күн бұрын

mind you very few of these things are actually useless in trade. If you ever do a leaguestart in tradeleaggue again you will notice a massive difference in how easily you progress early on since you will know how to get everything you need

@wiramonol5266

21 күн бұрын

@@Luggaster but it’s never the best way to get what you need when in trade. The best way to get what you need is farm and then buy it.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

The first day, maybe the first few days, it may have a use in trade. But after that, it is all about making currency, and then choosing an inferior farming method just isn't really an option for most people. During league start, the game modes are very similar. Trade is barely there. But that completely changes after a few days when the economy kicks in.

I've thought about many of the points you raised in this video. It's my 3rd league in a row playing SSF instead of trade and I'm loving the game more than ever. I've also learned more about PoE and improved more in these past leagues than ever before. Couldn't agree more with you, SSF is the most complete and chill way to experience PoE. Thank you for making this!

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Thanks for your comment, much appreciated

Been playing SSF since Blight, can't go back! So much fun, so rewarding, cheers for the SSF content!

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

Happy to hear it

I play POE for 10 years now, sc trade mostly that is. Been through my 40 challenges and too wealthy to care about progress pretty fast this league, so I descided on a restart in SSF this time and - oh boy - this is a totally different game with exactly the pros and cons you named. well done on that. For me, progressing a new char (or the first two, three, probably) in a new league is what I love the most about POE. When I get to a certaion point, probably 2 mirror worth of gear and gems in, I am not keen on getting wealthier and the next char is more like buying all the stuff it needs, leveling and playing a bit with getting bored pretty soon. That obviously doenst work this way on SSF. So, played 2 weeks to be on the stage as in a day 3 leaguestart szenario, probably day 4. Did my favoured maps exp. for the feared (cant get the reflect clones down) and did the 4 voidstones. feels superb, tbh. T17 suck and kills me every time I try, so it is farming upgrades for now or rerolling to something stronger. Lab, here I come again.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Great post, thanks for sharing. Happy to hear it resonates with you, and good to read about your experience. Doing challenges in SSF is also a complete different beast by the way. Good luck in Lab. It is actually one of the mechanics that I started to appreciate a lot more in SSF. In trade it is just an obstacle, but in SSF it has a real purpose. As most other end game systems.

💯% agree; another reason ssf is so chill is there's no artificially-inflated points of comparison due to no rmt seeping into content... if history teaches anything about prohibition without enforcement, it's that the hidden economy is vastly larger than its imagined to be by the naive masses. anyway, ❤ your content as always, thanks!

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

The RMT in trade never really bothered me much. It is there, but ye. I kind of appreciated the scarab bot accounts for example. Regardless, it is true of course. No inflated economy in SSF. in fact, no economy at all ;)

This is my first league, and after making a character while "doing the content that I love and avoiding those I hate", I felt punished and left behind the economy for not doing the most efficient strats. So, I decided to make an SSF character. You really did hit the nail on the head on this one, including the CONS. I don't have much time to play, so I'll probably not progress much beyond the few hours per week that I can invest into my character, but I have decided to treat it as a learning experience. Thank you for this video and your insights. Subscribed.

@Thyworm

14 күн бұрын

Great to hear that man, good luck with the character and let me know how it went, like at the end of the league or when you're done

great video ! First league really diving in to SSF and should have made that switch way earlier after almost 4000 hours played, its so NICE to get out of the div/hour mindset.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Yes, for sure. I made the swap a little earlier, but not that much either.

Any chance you would ever make a video about farming mageblood/hh in ssf?

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Yes, I'm actually thinking about that. It goes on the pile of video ideas. Teaser: it is not so much farming, as even the div cards for them are incredibly rare. But it is more making decisions to set yourself up for success, on multiple strategies. So every league, I gamble at Gwennen, I use ancient orbs on belts only, I run content like the Seer, open voidborn keys, in general keep an eye out on how people drop HHs in trade (using the divination scarabs this time). And that combined with a lot of playtime... Because it is also about just playing the game a lot, as it turns out. I got the mageblood in this video after 14 days of playtime, so roughly 300 or so hours, on that character.

@S74T

22 күн бұрын

@@Thyworm tyvm this is extremely useful

For me SSF has never made sense, I've played trade leagues for many years but have never used trade because it is a horrendous system, I wont dirty my hands by touching it. Basically I play in trade leagues but play it as if I'm in SSF, I don't see why an independent league mode needs to exist, unless I'm total spastic and are missing something.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

You're not a spastic, but what you're missing is that not everyone can play trade like that, as if there is no trade. Many feel shoehorned into trading, in trade, which you know, makes a lot of sense right? You don't have that, which is good for you, but many others do have that. SSF takes away trade completely, including that feeling you should trade or make currency, which is one of the main reasons it exists.

I only play SSF modes in games like POE and LE. I HATE dealing with people most are intolerable. If D4 had a SSF mode I would play that.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

I play D4 effectively as SSF. Just for world events, you pair up, which I do find kind of enjoyable actually. I've never traded in D4 though.

@mediocrity25years68

22 күн бұрын

@@Thyworm I just hate how I play solo but the only way you can have a chance at top tier items is group. I have played D4 to much to tell and never seen 1 Unique item from Duriel playing SSF.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

I treat D4 a little differently. I'm not going as hard with that game, but rather just play a chill Necro, walk around in the world, play for a few days, and then I've had my fun. I don't see D4 as a game I want to min max at all. It is a game for casuals, in my opinion, and I'm happy to behave as one. It is a great game when played with that mindset, in my experience

I finally jumped into SSF as DD Necro Needed the cast spell weapon enhance, so just spec'd into Betrayal and got it within a day or 2.... def felt better than anything in trade league outside of buying a big item like Mageblood.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Betrayal is very farmable for sure. Also provides fun items for plenty of builds. I always enjoy doing it.

What build do you generally play? Or are you always changing up?

@Thyworm

14 күн бұрын

I'm changing it up quite a bit normally. This league CoC DD inquisitor. Last league SRS Guardian. I played TR ballista Pathfinder. Exploding arrow ballista elementalist. Whatever seems like a build that would do well in SSF.

hey am also doing ssf can u recommend a build for uber dont think i have the skill or the internet to do ubers on coc

@Thyworm

18 күн бұрын

I'm not sure actually. CoC DD is pretty solid, but not really a Bosser either. Regular DD perhaps. Or just minions. Those tend to be decent at single target

You mentioned some good SSF content creators. Can you provide some links please?

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

These aren't content creators focusing on SSF, but when they say a build is SSF viable, it is. youtube.com/@palsteron?si=I1qGkIOJPWXOINa5 youtube.com/@crouchingtuna?si=goGY92OF457KSDD3

@valdorianalt5372

22 күн бұрын

@@Thyworm Thank you!

Build variety seems kinda off at least for league start, but I find the options we have rather enjoyable. Sure you could make many jank builds work but that's usually way too much effort lol. Also kinda salty bc my favorite builds were either "killed" (rip fire trap saboteur, elementalist feels too squishy) in recent patches or are relatively trash compared to any decent SSF build, but it's doable, and worst case scenario I'll just default to RF (chill but I kinda struggle with damage for early maven for boots for comfort), RoA raider/champ (zoomiest starter I enjoy), or SRS guardian (kinda boring but does the trick). I'm fine with farming t3/t2 uniques tho My main issues with SSF other than those you listed is the lack of crafting "opportunities", like I'm giga stingy with my divines because they're too rare so I usually wait until I have a near-perfect item to gamble, which I find boring af, 100% hard agree with your other points tho. Wish we could have something like LE's CoF system but GGG will never put something like that into the game I'm prob fresh starting later bc I fucked around too much by testing some transfigured gems and that killed the league early for me lmao

@Thyworm

3 күн бұрын

I think you make a great point for crafting indeed. I thought about making a video about some common crafts I use a lot in SSF. Could be interesting

The new scarabs have been a blessing for SSF, paired with being able to guarantee stuff just by having nodes on the atlas you can do all sorts of things. I was never a fan of sextants or old scarabs but this league made me want to use them since you can sustain them really easy by taking one of the new extra trees and dedicating it to scarab farming. Personally I've been having a lot of fun spamming Ambush and having tons of strongboxes that give back even more scarabs which is something I've never expected to do since my go to has always been alch'n go.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

Absolutely, new scarabs, new trees, they're all amazing in SSF. Ambush is one of my favorite scarabs too. The cartography ones providing 8 mod corrupted maps is great as well.

As another person mentioned, you're always grinding, whether it's item drops or it's currency. I personally played ssf for several leagues and got about 300 hours in. Then in ToTA I wanted to do trade and get into it. Now I have about 1400 hours. For me personally I find great enjoyment in picking up loot and being in trade it means there's always a buyer. I bought a quad tab and a premium tab and that's been good enough for me. I love to trade and being able to accumulate divines and then buy my gear is super rewarding for me. I personally love to grind various mechanics and this league I've already been on my 3rd toon and thinking of making a 4th because I'm having such a blast and making money is easy, and that money allows me to play a variety of builds. I think I might try ssf in a few leagues, when I've learned more about all the uniques and game mechanics.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

Trade can be very enjoyable as well. And it is true you are always grinding, as these are grindy games. But what I don't agree with is that you either grind for loot, or for currency, and that it is therefore similar. To me, that makes as much sense as saying that Mario Cart and D4 are similar, because they're both video games. Sure, on the highest level of abstraction, that is true. But SSF is completely different in terms of grinding, and is much more thoughtful, and elaborate. It is a completely different play style and I would argue a completely different game, compared to trade league.

I have gotten awaked gems from map drops witnessed by maven in TL so it not exclusive to SSF.

@Thyworm

19 күн бұрын

I never said it was exclusive to SSF. Nothing is exclusive to SSF, in fact. I only said that in SSF, this change has much more impact than in trade.

I haven't tried SSF yet but i'm about to create a character and even try making a build on my own, i find trade league chill but thats because i do what i want and still manage to do some currency hahaha but i'd like to try some other content that I ussually don't do ever like Heist for example or ultimatum, eitherway SSF is a whole new POE experience everyone should try once at least

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Nice to hear it. I've been trying to make builds as well and I'm really bad at it

the only problem i have with ssf is the loss of a lot of builds i wanna play and start 1 or 2 ssf chars but in ssf i never found builds i like to play and being able to kill all 4 voidstones. :D and i dont know what build to play to kill maven on, as a ssf build relatively quick after i started (1 or 2 weeks in). i dont like playing trapper/miner for so long and in general i am more a mapper then a bosser so with my mapping builds i struggle alot agains maven xD maybe one of you have an idea for a ssf char i could play to kill maven and have fun mapping. (cocdd and 2 button playstyles arent for me xD) hope my bad english wasnt to bad

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

I'm also more of a mapper. I like minions, they tend to do well in SSF. I'm playing CoC DD this league, but look at Poe ninja and select the SSF league, and you see what people are playing. There is lightning ball action going on it seems, for example.

@MrSherlockDomes

21 күн бұрын

im not doing SSF but lightning ball archmage was pretty easy to coast through to T16 on self found gear. I did however start buying upgrades once i started having issues with bosses. And if you aren't asleep at the wheel (like i am most the time) you really shouldn't die all that much. I have a terrible habit of looting while things are exploding or ontop of degen puddles lmao.

I swapped to SSF several leagues back, I don't make it very far (Still never killed an uber, currently can't clear a T17) but it's still more fun, I just have so much more I need to learn about crafting to actually get gear upgrades. But it's still infinitely more fun than just buying gear that has no real value to me.

@Thyworm

20 күн бұрын

Nice to hear that

Everyone should try SSF at least one time, Even if it's after you are done with trade league stuff, get you a new perspective on the game, and maybe more can enjoy the game and play what they want, instead of searching for the "best" currency strat, i play trade this league, played the content i want, but still have over 100 divines, 3k+ chaos and all my end gear stuff, And i have barely played this league.

@Thyworm

20 күн бұрын

I think so too. That new perspective is pretty huge in my opinion

SSF is chill and fun and the more enjoyable mode for me .. I only hope they will make a bro ssf mode not like private leagues that cost money

@Thyworm

16 күн бұрын

Would be nice. I don't think that is ever going to happen though

grinding for currency or grinding for drops.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Or grinding for a new user name

Expedition was the single best thing to ever happen to SSF IMO. Also SSF chat is way more chill as a whole. 🙂

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

I've never had chat on, in like years. I should try the SSF chat one day, sure

@lennyghoul

21 күн бұрын

@@Thyworm Global 773

SSF teach you what poe crafting actually offers then trading the crafted items but, its a COMMITMENT my god.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

Yes, it is. I tend to use crafting on a more basic level though. You won't see me imprinting a bunch of gear, for example.

just a few things from my perspective... i have even more subjective cons and pros... Cons trade: i neglect reallife in the fear of missing out on drops and that the strategy will be nerfed if i go out on first weekend... im actually nolifing poe league for the first week in trade and dont do anything besides poe.. actualyl prepared food for several days so i cann just microwave it and eat it to be fast .. Pros ssf: drops will feel much better... my first cospris in ssf back a ffew seasons felt better then my first mirror drop in trade.. cauze a t0 unique can open up a complete build for you but in trade everything you drop will just make you go faster

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

Funny, my SSF league start is the same. I also no life the game for a week. Not because of the economy of course, but just because I enjoy the game so much and want to play the new stuff

The reason I'm not playing SSF is just that I'm not good enough for it. I can barely reach t16 in trade league.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

You'll get better rather quickly in SSF, but I can see your point. I don't think it should refrain people from trying SSF personally, as there is a lot of content out there to keep learning. But I've also heard the opposite take from some content creators.

I used to think I wasn't good enough for ssf, wish I had started many leagues ago

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

Yes it is a bit of a myth I feel, being not good enough for SSF. I think SSF is actually very nice to learn the game, as long as you manage your expectations accordingly. Just don't expect to clear the whole atlas at first.

My personal issue with SSF is i have little time to play the game and by the time i'll get my gearing done (if happens at all) the league will end. Also some of my gear require farming mechanics i really hate with passion (looking at you Delve and Heist). But for the people who play 24/7 the whole SSF thing is a god send indeed.

@NickNamesOfGod

22 күн бұрын

I'm in the same boat, time-wise, and I've been playing without trading since Open Beta, long before there was even an SSF mode available. Yes, there's content I can't get before the league ends, but I'm still having fun with the low-stress, trade-free approach to PoE. SSF really is better.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

I think you don't need to play 24/7, but like I mentioned in the video, if you have really little time, then it does get tougher for sure. Every league though, there are builds that require very little gear to work. You must be willing to play those, however.

@valdorianalt5372

22 күн бұрын

I started a character in standard ssf. Because it's ssf you don't have to deal with a broken economy and you have literally years to build a character. With a free full respec every few months. Only downside is that GGG likes to nuke builds from the orbit and you may end with a useless char if you play a meta build (which you should in SSF). I think that's what the full respec is for.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

I guess standard is an option indeed. I like starting over every few months and trying out new, broken league mechanics, personally.

I agree with some of your points but I'm gonna make my counter argument based on them: You do need to run every type of content if you're making a build that requires a certain item from a specific content. You're not free to chose whatever you want to farm (like in trade) and farm stuff that is valuable to other players. You don't have to run the most profit per hour strategy in trade, no one is forcing you to. If you like delve you can delve forever and still aquire your items because that type of content will always have value to other players - unlike in SSF, where you quickly run out of reasons to farm a mechanic once you have required the gear for your build(s). Getting a better understanding of the game is not something limited to SSF, you're just forced into it. I have played SSF maybe 2-3 times in events for a short period of time and still have a very deep understanding of most game mechanics because I like to learn about the content that I enjoy. I quit SSF every single time once my next upgrades required me to farm content that I didn't enjoy for countless hours. No, I won't enjoy it more if I'm forced to do it. Looking at elder animations for 20 hours or opening 500 doors an hour is gonna make me quit the game, nothing else. You're viewing trade negatively because it limits the content (currency-oriented view) and I view it positively because it limits the content (enjoyment-oriented view).

@slcLbens

21 күн бұрын

For me it feels bad changing farming starts to something I'm making less currency in, why would I farm delve if I can make more money for my time doing something else, but then I get bored doing that one thing. I've also become less interested in just buying my gear, engaging with all the different mechanics this game has to create my own gear has been more rewarding for me personally.

@Moritz_269

21 күн бұрын

​@@slcLbens This is not how trade works though. Maybe this league the gap has widened a bit with T17 farming but I refuse to believe you are only looking at how much money you can make. Why would i swap to some other strategy that makes me 10-20% per money if I don't enjoy doing it? Id much rather actually enjoy farming and make a bit less.

@ZaggaZye

21 күн бұрын

@@Moritz_269 You are correct, the issue is not being addressed though. The fact that a 1c Unique item became 1Mirror due to a content creator using it in a META build is the issue here. If somehow we woke up tomorrow and Pepsi is now 100 USD because sugar got OP and is now META because Ziz said so is just unethical. Why not have a cap on the value on items (this is a video game afterall), this is past supply and demand as the supply is there in thousands vs the demand. Even now if we should search for a Mageblood we can find THOUSANDS just sitting there waiting for someone to buy one whenever, this more than meets the demand so why is it that expensive? Oh Mathil used it in an OP build and that is the reason (as an example). Trade league is great and SSF is as well, but the massive difference is that SSF FORCES you to do xyz while you have the freedom in Trade. SSF is better for those with impulses (who want to learn how to control them), no self control and will end up just doing rmt for a mageblood instead of just playing like most of us and either drop one or trade for one.

@slcLbens

21 күн бұрын

​@@Moritz_269when I'm playing trade I'm liquidating all my drops into divines then into gear, I know you can choose to not do this but it is the objectively most efficient way to play and for me it feels like a waste of time not doing this, but in ssf this is not a problem.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

If you can have the mindset in trade that you don't value currency, then good for you. I just felt like I was wasting potential, and I wanted to make currency. I think trade does that to quite some people. Not everyone of course. Also, lots of people are not happy with the economy. Which is understandable, to some extent. I just didn't want to think about that aspect of the game anymore, chose SSF, and after doing so, realized a lot of things I mentioned in the video, that also judging by the comments seem to resonate with others. We agree though I feel on most parts. We just draw a different conclusion. Which is totally fine.

Never played ssf but i can offer something between ssf and trade. Play trade but dont buy items. Only sell items to get currencies or trade basic currencies and learn crafting while not having much currency issue. Also sell items you crafted as well to get better at crafting.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

There are hybrid ways, but having the option to trade takes away the SSF feeling, which you really only get in SSF. The whole point is that you don't have a back-up in trade, and those limitations allow you and force you to be creative instead.

@EnderElohim

21 күн бұрын

@@Thyworm hybrid also work as well especially if you dont have much time to play to farm currencies in order to craft. I remember i dont like 20 map with harbinger strat and i got shit ton on different currencies to work with but it take time XD So for somebody new to crafting hybrid can be useful and helpful and limitation is do not buy equipment item or skill gem.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

Sure, it is an option.

Let’s be real. There’s that 5% of the reason we play SSF. And that is to take a screenshot of something awesome, send to friend, and only say “Ssfbtw”

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Very true. My Discord knows what time it is when my message starts with "Sir..." And then yes, either the mageblood or headhunter screenshot is next

FIRST

this is my third league and I just started playing SSF.. I still suck at crafting lmao

@Thyworm

16 күн бұрын

Crafting is hard, honestly. I suck at 2 things in PoE. Crafting beyond at least the basics. And making builds. I'm using some standard crafts in SSF which do end up being super useful, so I might make a video about that actually.

A good thing to try if you have limited time, is to just play trade like you're playing ssf. You minimize the trading you do, but only go into trading if you absolutely need something to get into maps. Keep yourself from buying 10+ div items and learn how to farm or craft them yourself. I don't have time to spend a 10hr day looking for a unique from the common loot pool. I don't have the time for full ssf, but I agree with you 100%. I don't really think poe is a 'fun' game in any way, as there are 'funner' arpgs you can play that allow for more deterministic crafting and farming, and also require much less knowledge. I do think poe can be incredibly rewarding to people who like to plan and have their effort rewarded. But it's not a 'fun' game at all. The endgame is tuned for try hards and meta gamers and keeps getting more and more tuned the more shit they add to the game.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

Fun is subjective right? Learning new things in a game can be fun to some people, and grinding it out can be as well. As can trading. I think PoE is a very fun game and very enjoyable. I like Last Epoch too, to some extent, which is much more deterministic and a lot less complicated. And I enjoy D4 as well, for what it is. Pretty much just enjoying the whole vibe of the game, the meaty combat, but there is no depth to it at all. Which I'm fine with.

if SSF dropped better loot then yeah i would do it, otherwise its just a handicap. I can always just choose not to trade. I dont care about PoE ladders.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

It is a handicap, in a way. But it also is simply a different way of playing the game, which some find very enjoyable. Like me

I hate that melee sucks without weapons that are hard to craft or drop from bosses you cant really do as melee without gear. Except boneshatter but that skill is boring.

@wiramonol5266

22 күн бұрын

This is THE league to try melee, especially elemental. Easy to get 6xT1 rolls with gravecrafting.

@crazycdn8327

22 күн бұрын

Let’s be honest melee sucks in ssf or trade. GGG hates melee, which is obvious, it’s got next to no love in like ten leagues now.

@Thyworm

22 күн бұрын

I don't really see melee as a particular SSF issue. It is an issue in general. In SSF you will be limited in builds for it even more, although grave crafting creates very strong weapons, and the build limitations are true across all builds.

@crazycdn8327

22 күн бұрын

@@Thyworm I meant melee in general is in a bad place. You have to stand so close to the bosses and they have extra damage nearby. Just seems like it's a bad design for melee honestly.

@Thyworm

21 күн бұрын

Ye fair enough. I think it is a known problem. I don't mind it all that much, personally

I dont really understand the point tbh... it's just a very weird flex. You can play trade league and just never buy anything, pretend like you're playing ssf, and if you get stuck or really want to buy something you have the option to do so. It makes no sense to me to pigeonhole myself just to say that I did. Is there a single positive benefit to playing ssf besides the psychological mindset you get from being limited?

@Thyworm

20 күн бұрын

I'm giving 5 points in the video. I'm sure some people view SSF as superior. I don't. It is a preference. To me it isn't a flex in any way, it is simply a game mode I enjoy a lot more than trade. And for many others, that is probably the same.

@Marv7792

20 күн бұрын

@@Thyworm yeah but all of these points are like subconscious or conscious mental perspectives like "it feels like a more complete game", theres no tangible, actual objective benefit

@Thyworm

20 күн бұрын

True. But there is no objective benefit, other than the enjoyment you get due to the limitations. Limitations are not always bad. In fact, they often result in more creativity, which you certainly see when playing builds in SSF. Or just playing the game, in general. Doing things that are objectively more efficient, does not always result in having a better time. The positive benefits are the mindset, the limitations and as a result, how you play the game in SSF. It is completely different from trade. And that is enough of a reason to most people enjoying SSF

@Marv7792

19 күн бұрын

@@Thyworm no i completely understand all of that. What i dont understand is why not just play on trade and not use trade as if you're playing ssf, and then when you get bored of playing like an ssf, switch over to trade lol

@Thyworm

19 күн бұрын

You can do that in SSF. You just migrate your character to trade

I'm being petty here & i do apologise in advance but - Step 1) Pick broken meta build that functions on no gear. Step 2) Play a lot. Then with OP mechanics like necropolis/scarabs you can do exactly what you want in SSF that you can in trade, it just takes more time! The game at it's core needs so much more love than they're giving it right now.