Excellent explanation. Everything you said makes perfect sense, And it's obvious you're a master and a cut above many of the commercial sharpening shops out there, I especially admire that you tailor the edge geometry to the characteristics of the end user. I can see why the culinary school has chosen you.

@JendeIndustries

28 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching and for the kind words! 😎👍

Nice video. As usual it is "explanative - straight to the point - without hype". Thanks for sharing.

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you as always, sir! I get a lot of crap sometimes that everything needs to be laser thin. That's great for your own knife and for a much higher quality knife, but for more commercial level stuff, I am a firm believer that edge longevity is much more important than the refinement or ease of cut, which usually shortens the lifespan.

Thanks for answering my question in such a thorough and respectful manner. A service like this is invaluable for students. We had to supply our own knives as well as learn to sharpen them when I was in school. I didn’t learn till much later the value of thinning. I understand these knives are soft and probably being used to cut bones and what not, so totally understandable.

@JendeIndustries

4 жыл бұрын

Thank YOU for that!! The sharpening portion of your average culinary program amounts to almost none, aside from perhaps using a steel since the primary focus is understandably on cooking and techniques. There's also a bit of snobbery that must be overcome as a sharpener - we don't like boring steel types, and we want to take everything up to the highest, most perfect mirror possible. Being able to adjust and meet the customers' individual sharpening needs while maintaining my own level of sharpening integrity is the key. As always, every sharpening question has the same answer: It depends. 👍

@seff2318

4 жыл бұрын

@Jende Industries great response! I’ve been sharpening for a few years now and I’ve just gotten over mirror polishes in the last year lol. Once you have a basic understanding of metallurgy you realize quickly how few knives/applications can benefit from such a polished edge.

@JendeIndustries

4 жыл бұрын

Yet you know you love going to a full mirror whenever possible :) Once you've chased and caught that rainbow, there's nothing like that personal satisfaction of tree topping or hair whittling, and bringing yourself to settle for a 1,500 or 2K edge is hard to do, really. You feel like you will be called out by everyone everywhere for doing a crappy job :)

I like this explanation, I wouldnt want to thin a stamped (i assume these are stamped, hard to see) german chefs knife either, at least until it starts taking the shape of a french chefs knife 😂I have a bunch of mid range masahiro knives at home that have been used daily and sharpened for years now, none of those have ever needed thinning. A high end, hand forged Gyoto where the spine is 3-4 times thicker than these though, thats a completely different story ^^ Im all for going the extra mile, but sometimes that mile is either not appreciated, or even detrimental

@JendeIndustries

11 күн бұрын

Thank you for watching! You are correct, sir. if the knife is overall thin enough, you don't need thinning. Thick blades will require more maintenance thinning as you go.

Cause it costs too much time and money, the knives are Doo Doo soft and no one takes care of them.

@JendeIndustries

4 жыл бұрын

That's the truth, but I can't say it like that as easily in public!

@smithgeorge6858

3 жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries i also go to culinary school but not that one and for my school those knives are for chef/guests or students who forgot their knives. And I don't blame you those knives are not worth time thinning the edge they are soft thick and heavy. Pretty much garbage. I would rather pick cheap chinese brand over those old wusthof that is heat treated to something like 55 hrc

@JendeIndustries

3 жыл бұрын

​@@smithgeorge6858 It IS ironic how the traditional, dubbed "cheap" Chinese basic knives are often better steel quality than Western X50CrMoV15 and the like used by "high end" makers like Wüsthof, Henkel, Victorinox, F. Dick, etc. This is primarily because of the approach to western/French cooking, which is to maintain the blade constantly with a sharpening steel, while Asian mentality is to cut all day, and sharpen on stones once a day. I'm sure there are other business factors behind it, but from a practicality standpoint, this idea of using the softer knife steel against the harder sharpening steel is probably the original thinking behind why the steel of western chef knives is softer overall. These companies (and MANY others) have streamlined this idea to get the lowest common denominator out of the knife steel. Anyone who has used a vintage knife from any of the mentioned brands above can easily see the difference.

@urmelausdemeis3495

3 ай бұрын

Hochinteressant! Vielen Dank für die ausführlichen und SEHR informativen Antworten! Ich werde diesen Kanal abonnieren und wünsche Ihnen ein weites Publikum. Als Anerkennung Ihrer Arbeit UND damit viele Intessierte an Ihren Gedanken teilhaben können.

most of the kitchen knife damage on a chefs knife is the part of the blade which is in contact with the board when you are cutting with the heel end of the knife because it pivots right there like if you were cutting a cucumber that part of the knife is pressed into the cutting board and then you start twisting it in order to cut the cucumber and then the board starts chipping out metal and often you are applying downward pressure with your non dominant hand and getting leverage that you’re not even aware of. i almost wish chef knives had a secondary grind for that reason, like thinner in the part of the blade you cut with and thicker where it contacts the board

@JendeIndustries

Жыл бұрын

Excellent thoughts! I often see evidence of thinner tips and wider heels on a blade when they come in for sharpening. I'm not entirely sure how much of that is deliberately done vs poor sharpening technique. I tend to lean toward the latter given the overall condition of the knife when I get it - it's usually caused by a combo of dished stone and improper positioning of the blade. However, differential sharpening is often done on competition blades for knife sports so the knife can handle different tasks better on certain areas of the blade. So when sharpening work the entire edge to a regular angle, then spend more time thinning at the tip area and raising the angle at the heel. You can position the blade so that only that portion comes into contact with the stone.

Danke. Sehr interessant

@JendeIndustries

3 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching!

6:17 do you play with your rubber duck in your lunch break? 😊👍 LOL, just kidding. Good video.

Are these knives being sharpened for the first time use of the student? I sharpen my own knives at home so this actually made me curious as to why the students aren't sharpening themselves. Also I'm not sure if it was done in post production or not but is seems like some form of audio compression was used which is very much appreciated.

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the late reply! So it turns out the school has knives for cooking classes that are for non culinary students. The students in the culinary program themselves are required to have their own set of knives. They also bring them to us for sharpening, especially before their exams :D

This is honestly the answer I have been looking for for years. My chefknife felt very odd after thinning plus I really didnt want to create a whole new j-style bevel for my knife as I want it to be durable enough for general use! Thank you. Just curious, how would you say the belt translates to a whetstone? Do I have to use like a 200 to 400 grit stone to get the bevel on that knife?

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

I'm very glad you found this video helpful! The belt I used is 120 grit, which is roughly the same as the corresponding stone grit, only a lot more speed is involved. Your best bet is to use a ~120 diamond plate of sorts if you want to go faster, but you can also use any coarse stone from 120 to 600. Of course, speed will depend on how much work needs to be done and the type and hardness of the steel. Thanks for watching!

@saintwaye7984

2 жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries thank you for the reply! I will try this at home :)

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

@@saintwaye7984 My pleasure! Let us know if you have any questions!

Forgot to ask, what is your preffered finishing stone grit for kitchen knives same as the ones you mentioned in this video? And do you finish on different grit the harder blades from 60HRC and above ?

@JendeIndustries

Жыл бұрын

Excellent question! It really depends. For basic German stainless blades and most initial sharpening, I do the belts, ceramic steel, and a buff with white compound. When a customer shows me they can appreciate something more, I will generally finish it on the stones to 2, 3, 4, or 6K depending on my mood. :D

Nice video. What kind of buffing wheel do you recommend? I don't want to make an order and find out its way too soft.

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I use a softer cotton wheel that is sewn. No loose strips of material, but the core is soft so it is less invasive, even if it does round things a little.

Hello, I have a sharpening service for restaurants. I get these knives in regularly. Rounded edge and chipped. I saw that video and I am in buying such a belt sander now. What grit did you use? This method saves so much time. I would use ceramic belts to reduce the heat. Is 350-400 watts ok? What would be a good speed for the belt? I think anything under 10meters/ second should be fine? I hope you will respond to that older video. Best regards, Daniel

@JendeIndustries

Жыл бұрын

Hi Daniel, Thank you for watching and for asking your question! This video uses a 120 grit 4x36" 3M Cubitron belt. I've since moved into the 6x48" model and added a 60 grit belt for the inevitable repairs. As for heat and speed, the speed on the belt sander is pretty constant and can get hot fast. So it's a matter of getting your touch and technique down and always keep the blade moving to avoid it getting too hot in one place - especially the tip or heel. Some models may have a speed control or you can buy a foot pedal switch, which you'll probably find very helpful in the beginning. But once you get your skills up to par, you'll probably want speed speed and more speed. 😁

@knife.spa.berlin

Жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries I wish I could find a belt grinder with speed control that's not a 2x72 giant. But thanks for your quick answer. Appreciated 👍

@JendeIndustries

Жыл бұрын

@@knife.spa.berlin Yeah, you can buy a foot pedal that can plug into the existing plug or wire it. The hardest thing to learn on the belts is how to place the blade correctly every time. Practice makes perfect.

@knife.spa.berlin

Жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries that's the same with freehand sharpening. I think I will just get one at the hardware store. Watts shouldn't be that important, because one doesn't pressure too much and let the belt do the work, isn't it?

@JendeIndustries

Жыл бұрын

@@knife.spa.berlin That is correct. Using a light tough is always better at first, then as you get comfortable you can play with the levels of pressure you use.

Why not use the buffing wheel edge trailing? Isn't that much safer than what you are doing right now? Also, might cut into the wheel over time?

@JendeIndustries

11 ай бұрын

🤨I had to rewatch the video! In this case, the speed of the buffer wheel vs the camera recording speed made it look like the wheel was going in the opposite direction. There is no way ANYONE could do edge leading into the buffer and survive! We've all thrown a knife, though. Be safe!

@jiahaotan696

11 ай бұрын

@@JendeIndustries Ah, the wonders of video recording. Thank you for clarifying. I thought you were superhuman for a while there.

@JendeIndustries

11 ай бұрын

​@@jiahaotan696 Well, I am getting better at sharpening 🙂 Thanks for watching!

Eventhough i do this to some of the knives also there is a bit of confusion to my head. If the knife producer set it to a certain angle, considering they do better studies and know what they are doing acording to the steels they use, and if that edge holds for an decent amount of time in real use, then why do we change that ? Except the specific need of having a thinner slicer, but sharpening it more often, for regular use if theyr angle prooves to be a good one, how does any of these other techniques help compaired to that?

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

There's some things that you should question as you go further down into the sharpening rabbit hole. One of those things is factory edges and angles and grits - or is that 3 things? :D Most production edges are adequate, yet quite minimal. 220 grit belt and a buff to deburr and polish the grooves is the standard. It's cheap and easy and it cuts. On most steels it holds up well because the underlying structure of the edge is like corrugated metal, so much more sturdy and thick at the edge. Wusthof and the like all pretty much use X50CrMoV15, which is not terribly amazing at all so having that thicker edge helps it stay sharp and keeps it from rolling. As sharpeners get a hold of things, we tend to thin everything out and go for more finesse sharpening - getting those corrugations down to slicing thin and even, which inherently upsets the edge's structure and therefore stability, but it slices instead of saws. That perfect balance between edge retention, resistance, and refinement is the ultimate rainbow we all chase. In this case, X50 edges will fold or roll if it gets too much refinement, but it can be offset somewhat by adding geometry to it. HOWEVER, I am of the opinion that X50 is in use not because it's cheap or inferior, but because the German/European school of cooking requires the use of a sharpening steel. If the blade steel is too hard, the sharpening steel won't work. So something's got to give, and in this case, it is the knife. But that then means the sharpening steel needs to be aggressive enough to maintain the edge and repair it at the same time, so you end up with approx 1K grit on average for a steel (be it diamond, metal, or ceramic), and that is a sawing edge, not a slicing one. Which circles us back to the the blade steel not needing to be better or harder than taking a 1K edge, and why X50 is used. I hope that made sense. :D

@TocilarulTimisorean

2 жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries i just made a sharpening/cutting test 2 days ago to 2 identical knives for edge retention: 1- sharpened on 400 suehiro stone+2k strop paste 2-sharpened on 400/1000/4000 stones+strop with fine 10k paste Same sharpening angle of 22/23°. Did a number of strokes on cutting board while checking which one fails first paper test and tomato test. By far knife sharpened on 400 stone+strop won with almost double strokes Knife 1: -70 strokes for tomato cutting -80 strokes for paper cutting Knife 2: -30 strokes for tomato -50 strokes for paper This seems simillar to what you replied and what i've also heard that Wusthof sharpens the knives with about 400 grit+polish, that's why i wanted to give it a test. Allthough i posted this test on reddit, many replied with all sort of disapproval with arguments. I can only say im counting on whatever results i get from tests rather than some theories. What is your opinion ?

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent test, Fabian! I actually think your test results are pretty spot on for food and paper tests. It's a tough pill to swallow for some of the experts on reddit because we love refinement, and consider higher always to be better. But stability is almost never considered in that equation. There is a point where the refinement level does matter, and that is in the shaving and slicing world. If you were to shave your face (not arm or leg - that's too easy) you would probably much prefer knife 2 in that scenario (although it would probably still be a very rough shave). Finding the Goldilocks combination of refinement and geometry is different for each type of cutting the knife will do. This is why the only definitive answer to any sharpening question is "it depends". :) Now that you've done this first test, next is to chase hair whittling vs. hair popping, and shave. Also try plane blades and chisels to see which leaves a finer finish. This is all part of the fun of the sport of sharpening!

@einundsiebenziger5488

8 ай бұрын

... a* decent amount / their* angle proves* to be ...

"Why I don't thin" Tldr: "I do, it's just passive thinning"

@JendeIndustries

4 жыл бұрын

I've gotten into arguments in the past about "thinning". I'm generally against it on most knives unless it is immediately necessary, and taking off the shoulder is usually enough to keep everything sharp and well shaped for the average user.

@wongkonpow111

4 жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries I'm not saying it's incorrect, just that what you're doing is a form of thinning. You even say that it keeps things thin as the knife is worked on, so it is definitely passive thinning. You do thin, just not in the way you or other people are envisioning

@JendeIndustries

4 жыл бұрын

@@wongkonpow111 That is correct, sir! And a very good way to explain it, actually!

What belt sander is that? What’s the output of it? Thanks for the vid!

@JendeIndustries

3 жыл бұрын

HI Nathan - It's a Rexon 4x36. I've had it for about 15 years now. 120V, 1/3hp, 3450 RPM

@nathlee1992

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the reply mate, do you think any belt sander with power of 1/3hp plus would work as far as thinning or grinding a convex edge goes? Or I need to look into more specs? Thanks!

@JendeIndustries

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathlee1992 Thanks for asking! If you are just thinning and grinding for more cosmetic and routine repairs for sharpening, then the 1/3hp is just fine. Like I said, my machine is about 15 years old, and has thousands of blades under its belt. However, if you plan on making knives or more serious stock removal on a regular basis, then you definitely want something with more power, like 1hp.

@nathlee1992

3 жыл бұрын

Appreciate your help mate😊

@JendeIndustries

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathlee1992 Happy to help! Good luck!

Thinnig knives is overrated, if not downright silly. These bolster-less Wüsthofs will perfectly do their job in any commercial kitchen. If you want a super-sharp, nimble lightweight knife for those particularly delicate cuts, such as sashimi or Michelin star-level carpaccio, then buy one that features an extra-thin blade ground to a super-low angle (< 12° per side) to begin with.

@JendeIndustries

8 ай бұрын

I am in agreement with you! Thanks for watching!

What stone did you used?

@JendeIndustries

4 жыл бұрын

Stone was a Naniwa 1K Chocolate Bar - a more traditional stone similar to a King 1K, but better :)

@einundsiebenziger5488

8 ай бұрын

... did you use*

I like this technique I think I'll employ it.

@JendeIndustries

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent! Let us know how it works for you!

You can say that you don’t thin the knives because they will get destroyed by idiots. It should be thinned such that the thickness of the knife 5mm above the cutting edge is 0.3mm at most.

@JendeIndustries

4 жыл бұрын

Well said on both accounts! Yeah, thinning like that doesn't need to be done until long into the life of the blade, and in most cases, just keeping the same angles as always will walk the bevel back in conjunction with the thickness. And if you round or convex the shoulders, you will most likely never really need to thin the blade as a full step. It should be noted that using sharpening steels and pull throughs can sometimes upset this process.

3:17 You'll want to measure that. The angle shown is *much* lower than "15 to 20 degrees." With a blade width of 5cm and the spine 1cm off the belt the math works out to 11.5 degrees. Those are conservative figures -- I bet you are a good bit below that. Probably more like 8-10 degrees. That is the real reason you you don't need to thin these blades. This problem of measurement overestimation is so prevalent it deserves an "8 inches" meme...

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent observation! I have to agree. I'm very glad this has sparked some conversation! I do tend to try to go lower on the belts as I convex the edge, and probably bottom out around 10 degrees or so. I would still call this rounding the shoulder rather than thinning the blade. Of course it is subjective. Many sharpeners around my area will use the grinding wheel of sorts and put a 1" wide bevel or "thinning" on the knife. To me, thinning the blade is needed only when the geometry of the entire blade becomes too thick to get a good clearance when cutting. Then I will take down the entire side of the blade, not just the bevel.

@rockets4kids

2 жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries I generally call this "re-profiling" and I agree it does provide considerable benefit for relatively minimal effort. My definition of thinning is working the primary grind. I generally find that cheap knives can be made into lasers without any technical issues (at least, in the hands of a competent user) by thinning out the primary grind. The bigger issue is it just isn't worth the time (or cost of time) when you could instead purchase something like a Tojiro DP.

@JendeIndustries

2 жыл бұрын

Right. I often see a knife get taken down or thinned to 8 degrees first, then the secondary bevel or micro bevel is added at the desired increased angle. I guess because I go backwards to that - I start off at my edge angle, then work down to round the shoulder - I don't see it as thinning. It is rarely my intention to make a laser in most of my sharpening (as you see some of the stupid sizes of some of the things I sharpen!), but upon thinking about it, I would do the same thing as I do with regular angles. Set the low angle, and round back from there. Semantics from one sharpener to another, I guess. :) On knives like Tojiro, that are also a thin or tapered blade definitely makes it easier than the bulkier blades and thick bolsters.

Yikes. This sharpening lmfaoooo.

@JendeIndustries

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching. Glad you enjoyed it!

@woopsnap

3 жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries definitely would not say I enjoyed watching a knife on a belt grinder. More like found it humorous.

@JendeIndustries

3 жыл бұрын

@@woopsnap Hey, anything for a good laugh! But out of curiosity, how do you suggest it should be done?

@woopsnap

3 жыл бұрын

@@JendeIndustries I personally do not agree with belt grinding. It heats the edge and ruins temper. Even if it’s a few seconds. That small contact patch was heated too much. Water cooled would be better. But belt grinders also remove too much material. So one problem solved out of 2. Everything on whetstones while not as fast ends up with a better overall product.

@JendeIndustries

3 жыл бұрын

@@woopsnap I don't disagree. It took me a long time to finally go more mechanized, and I still always use stones after the belts. It really just came to a point where the condition and/or quality of the knives I got to sharpen outweighed the need to just reduce the time it takes to bang it out. You'll notice I don't really refine much past 1K and a buff - which is still better than the usual factory made 220 and a buff- (so you'll also need to take your argument up with the knife manufacturing industry as well) :) This is what I call my Zoop-Zoop method of sharpening, which is good enough for most commercial sharpening.