💥JOIN MY 10-DAY AlCOHOL FREEDOM CHALLENGE!: tinyurl.com/yb6xevuf

It's interesting to note how Big Book thumping sponsors fail to recognize there's no mention of sponsorship in the basic text.

@kathleendinsmore7588

Жыл бұрын

@@franksanz1044 I understand that sponsors can be bullies and that it's a really good idea to be careful about who you open yourself up to. Recovery is about finding your own path to spiritual growth. It has nothing to do with winning brownie points from a sponsor.

@ShogunateDaimyo

5 ай бұрын

This is a lame cliche and made to make ones self feel clever or superior. Fact of the matter is it doesn't need to say the exact 'word' sponsor but starting in page 8 it does talk about Ebby making a 12 step call on Bill and essentially sponsoring him, similar to how Roland who went to court to sponsor Ebby before a judge. Even if it did say the exact word sponsor what ones did 100years as sponsors is drastically different than what they are now. Back then there were less options for rehab and detox so people would live with their sponsors for 2 plus weeks while detoxing. Sponsors also went to court with the sponsees and paid court and medical fees etc. very few could actually sponsor if that were still the requirement though some fortunate sponsors somewhere I'm sure still do these things. People were a bit different then too though. Many got sober off of reading the big book and writing letters to the home office as their temporary sponsor as well Nowadays no one has the same toughness and tenacity to endure such long suffering processes. Some things must change to accommodate the state of affairs to help the suffering alcoholics and the type of man that exists today.

@ShogunateDaimyo

5 ай бұрын

​@@kathleendinsmore7588this was really well said. Ultimately a human sponsor is just a guide to the real and final sponsor that is and has been our true benefactor all along which is the God of your own understanding. Any human power will only eventually let you down as well will also let down others at some point despite our best intentions.

@RinoSchiavoCampo

4 ай бұрын

@@ShogunateDaimyo So, AA turns 89 this June. The book is 85. Not 100 years. Details matter. I can not tell you what you said is right or wrong, but I can tell you that the program of recovery that is suggested lives in the Big Book. I can also tell you that I never evaluate anyone's recovery but my own. Every time I see a face in the rooms I have seen before, I tell them it's nice to see them again. Because it is. If someone invades my recovery program, I smile and thank them. It's OK, they probably mean well. They are not in charge though. God is in charge. There's not a person ever that can fill those shoes. In step three I made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of God.

I went to AA the first day I quit drinking and it felt like a cult.

@louiehannigan2538

Жыл бұрын

That's why I stopped going after 6 months. Tried my best to listen and relate to the stories but they just kept pushing the big book and the 12 steps on me. I've been sober 3 months and did it without AA.

@lovelyandsmartcommentator5130

6 ай бұрын

It is.

@ShogunateDaimyo

5 ай бұрын

A cult worships a human leader. Look it up. Bill W may appear to be held in unhealthy esteem by some but he is not and never wanted to be treated as an idol. AA gas no human leader, AA members are nothing more than helpers and they never govern. It is clearly spelled out in the traditions.

@shizzerla

5 ай бұрын

AA is a cult

@jcepri

2 ай бұрын

Hearing others basically telling my story is so powerful for me. An AA adage is, "take what you want and leave the rest." There is no expectation that you take it all to heart, hook, line and sinker. Like any organization, it's imperfect, as are all of us. I found that the sickness (the crazy thoughts in my head) WANTED me to believe that "these people are nuts" because it wanted me to remain isolated and alone. That voice is petrified of change and will do everything in its power to "protect me" from what it sees is a threat.

As a combat veteran with PTSD I have been a long time medical marijuana patient. Alcohol has brought me to the hospital for attempted to take my life, marijuana takes my migraines from a TBI I got from an IED away. Alcohol had me blacking out and fighting and going to strip clubs, marijuana helps ease my anxiety and pain and eradicated night terrors of war. 14 months without Alcohol which is 14 months sober. "WE ARE NOT DOCTORS" is what you need to remind the thumper zealots. I'm in AA for Alcohol, and people judge me for marijuana while they suck down coffee and tobacco (both of which can kill you AND are mind altering). Thank you for this video! I replaced alcohol with running and clocked in 1200 miles in my first year of sobriety. I'm new here but Fitness is the Way!

@gt2203

10 ай бұрын

Stay in God's lane...Medical Marijuana is a great solution for some people, for some reason. No one, or nothing, gets between me and my Ganga...best wishes.

One AA meeting was all it took for me to quit. It was the most depressing night of my life. Listening to old timers go on and on with stories that go nowhere. The meeting focussed on how you should volunteer and how it is very important to volunteer. They didnt get to the part where you stop drinking, just the aggressive recruitment. Alcohol use disorder is not a disease, you are not powerless. I can imagine becoming dependant on meetings to manage my life. I feel sorry for people who get convinced that they can't do it without AA. Some of the members had been going for decades!! Alcohol still controls their lives, they just dont drink it. Any decent therapy builds people up to be stronger and overcome their addiction. AA convinces people they are weak and cant survive without it, Just like any cult

@davemccall1134

5 ай бұрын

Well said - I agree 100% with you

@jcepri

2 ай бұрын

Volunteering?! OMG, that is an evil concept.

@blazeit505

2 ай бұрын

​@@jcepriWe call it service work.

@ciaraskeleton

7 күн бұрын

Right? Plus don't you think that the old timers are likely still feeling stuck and addicted purely because now they're addicted to complaining about alcohol/substances? Constantly fixating on it, complaining, bringing up the past, never giving themselves any credit for being sober for all those years? I truly believe that going back to the group time and time again to fixate on the substance, sets people up for depression, self hatred and relapse.

I tried the AA. Wasn't for me. I tried. I think I'm more content not being around that toxic group. I remember a couple of the old timers who were suppose to be a support network prey on young women as well. And their ego was atrocious

@dbarpuck

Жыл бұрын

Another example of a problem with the PEOPLE not the actual program! Sorry you had a bad experience, a lot of the meetings are terrible and its mostly a format problem, either way I hope you find happiness in whatever you choose to do!

@louiehannigan2538

Жыл бұрын

I've found that alot of AA members can be pushy and self righteous and also superior, if you drink even moderately you are viewed as weak or need God to cure you. I felt worse after leaving the rooms.

@monty4631

Жыл бұрын

I agree. I was told to go to AA at 18 and it was full of old timers. Everyone came up to me since I was the youngest, yet they were all gate keepers. I never shared or nothing, just listened and talked after meetings. I floated around and talked to everyone, and dare I say there were “ cliques” just like in highschool. They all tried to forced their perspective of the down my throat and I wasn’t a big fan of it. I’ve tried other meetings and have always experienced the same thing. I got sober from the books not the meetings 😵‍💫

@stoczniapunx6858

Жыл бұрын

same was for me, couldn't stand people putting their grief on me, instead of trying to think positive they were just looking for the worst option

@TrishCanyon8

Жыл бұрын

It definitely happens.

Haven't been to a meeting in 4 years. I'm so glad I walked from AA

@kathleenmckeithen118

4 ай бұрын

@@undercover513 After 15 years of it, my daughter found it was more of a cult than she had realized it was. When she wanted to step away from some of the responsibilities like being a sponsor, etc. she found the friends she had in AA weren't really friends at all. This was very disappointing and hurtful to her and she has been out of it, fully sober and doing great for the last number of years. I knew this would be the case from attending meetings with her in the beginning in support of her.

Basically, it comes down to 'You disagree with me - how arrogant and sick of you.'

@Last_Green_Man

2 ай бұрын

Sums up AA itself.

I don’t tolerate the lack of anonymity and gossip at certain meetings. It’s worth it to shop around and be vulnerable if you trust the group.

@shihan68

Жыл бұрын

I hadn't been to meetings in years, but recently discovered that meetings were being broadcast online through Zoom meetings! Talk about lack of anonymity!

@nunocoelho8979

Жыл бұрын

Reason I'm not attending because of the gossip period

@HexagonFL

11 ай бұрын

It’s rampant. Almost all meetings.

@ShannonFreng

11 ай бұрын

@@shihan68It's so rife with ludicrousness and hypocrisy, that I'm astounded so many people of high public standing defend it so, with seemingly no fear of it tarnishing their otherwise solid reputations.

@trentw.3566

3 ай бұрын

Social media use has destroyed anonymous meetings, period. Anyone that has witnessed AA'ers behavior on Facebook will acknowledge this.

I did 30 days of strict by the book inpatient recovery in 2020 and that was enough to drive me away from ever going to a meeting and really hone in on alternative methods. I watched people helplessly get sucked into the dogma and become convinced that they were absolutely saved and try to convince me that i was bound to fail because i was skeptical about the program

@murphmurph2124

Жыл бұрын

Yes you got scammed

@chuckm9603

Жыл бұрын

I have been sober going on 25 yrs. In AA about maybe 10 yrs. Of the 25, it’s all about what you want your life too be. I will say in the beginning, I doubt that , I could of got sober without the AA program, really planted the seed and opened my eyes for sure.

@shawnmendrek3544

Жыл бұрын

Honestly I think your outlook is silly. Of course programs will tell you, without it you will fail? You think rehab centers will tell you "oh yea you do not need us go ahead and leave". You make no sense to me, but I appreciate your post anyways.

@ShannonFreng

Жыл бұрын

@@shawnmendrek3544 AA is now mostly the refuge of the uneducated, mentally ill, lower classes (which is ironic, for when AA started, it was only aimed at upper middle class WASP men), so what else is to be expected? I'm proof that it's not necessary: I became abstinent after 25 years of being a heavy beer drinker, with no difficulty. That was in 2012. If you sound the least bit educated, those AA types react mostly antagonistically to you. Plus, being a pragmatic agnostic, I have no use for any of that 'God' bullshit, anyway. And I agree that guy's statement is quite incoherent (which just validates my claim).

@patrickprendergast9589

11 ай бұрын

u are great now no liquor in 3 years

AA did help me in terms of the illness being an addiction but it took 2 weeks in the psych ward with psychosis to finally make me stop for good, I got the wakeup call I needed, that alone keeps me sober

I find the concept of powerlessness so harmful for me ...due to my losses.

@krisscanlon4051

4 ай бұрын

Yes I'm so sorry for you.I feel that the translation in the rooms is muddled. You do have power on your own and that needs acknowledged. It becomes transferred in meetings and you lose your strength...its only meant to put the ego in check not make one powerless. In fact takes great power to walk away from an addiction.

There's a lot I love about aa and a lot that I think is really sick and twisted. Sober 8 years still hit meetings but don't have a sponsor just accountable to a few guys. Happy you're sober.

They lose it over pot whilst pouring copious amounts of coffee and huffing down cigs

@w.urlitzer1869

5 ай бұрын

I hate the curtain of smoke at the door. Like it's not an addiction. Same for their clinging to coffee. Or the telephone.

@Bitcoinistheshit

3 ай бұрын

Yea weed is not a drug . No one ever sucked a dick for some weed

@suetaylor5159

3 ай бұрын

I know right give up alcohol but sigoretts?😂

@ciaraskeleton

7 күн бұрын

In my group they criticise use of even caffeine. It's honestly ridiculous. You never ever feel like you can be clean enough and it's like no matter what you do, they tell you you're doing it because you're a sick flawed addict. It's crazy! Let me smoke my god damn vape, I'm sober from literally everything else, yknow? If you wanna smoke pot, smoke pot. If you wanna smoke a cig smoke a cig. If you wanna drink coffee slurp it down. None of this is easy, and it's bs to be demanding that we all just go cold turkey from every single thing on earth when we've already got so far. I preach harm reduction. If weed works as medicine for you, then praise be to weed. Long may your sobriety continue. ❤

@doublequin

7 күн бұрын

@@ciaraskeleton one of the chief means by which you can tell a group is unsafe or cultic is that you cannot really ever be good enough. I assume this group is big on addictions doing exercise in the parking lot? I was nearly booted from a group therapy for suggesting security go outside and politely ask our past to leave

BB thumpers are sometimes referred to as the AA Taliban in my area.

I asked someone if they could help me with the steps. "Ha, you need a sponsor!" No, I need help how the steps go. "Call me! Anytime!" Never they picked up the phone, never returned a call.

I parted company with AA for similar reasons after 10 or so years. It's like a lot of things really, has it's good points and bad points, the dark and the light but at the end of the day, as they say in the rooms, 'the door swings both ways, take what you want & leave the rest'. For me, I'm better because of it but now I'm better without it.

Hi.I so agree with you so much when you say that the only requirement for membership,is a desire to stop drinking. I have been sober for 39 years in AA.I am happy and free.I did not do my recovery through the big book and had to tell a fellow AA recently, that came around the same week as me,that more or less said I was not sober,as I had not joined the big book thumpers group .Definently a division here.We are still friends but it saddens me that I am frowned upon by these AA police.People who mind dont matter,and people who matter dont mind.Loving kindness to me matters.

@kaylameck1506

9 ай бұрын

It disturbs me greatly when I hear of people not feeling welcome in AA. This program saved my life. My first meeting was a miracle. Unfortunately, there are so many people as described above. I have encountered many in my 33 years of sobriety. I personally do not tolerate this attitude of behavior. You are a member of AA if you say you are. I did not work the steps in the manner some feel necessary. I am not ashamed of that, nor do I feel the need to flaunt it. Alcoholism kills. Period. It kills, people, dreams, live styles, safety and security of oneself and of the people we love. I am surrounded by AA's who love and respect me and I them.

I tried aa.Ended up being used and abused. Since leaving I have my self respect back.I will never never never share my personal experience to people I can not trust.I seek alternative therapies.

Thanks for sharing this experience. The thing with people in AA - if you tell them that you are not feeling happy, they’ll tell you immediately that its your “fault” for not doing the program enough according to them. AA is not the only solution, there are many options to recover. It is perfectly fine to listen to your initiative instead of blindly trust these unqualified individuals in mental issues. I appreciate AA as a program, but it is not for everyone.

@ShogunateDaimyo

5 ай бұрын

That's unfortunate. Everyone has peaks and valleys, even Bob Ross. Also those who have been through and work the 12 steps still have bad days or patches. Remember it's a program for sobriety. AA isn't a relationship coach nor a job finding hall. Some people have expectations that are unreasonable and then there are just a lot of sick people too. Not just alcoholism but also those with mental illness in the rooms. So you have to be careful who you open up to, but also we are taught to not be victims that we play a role in our mess so talking solely on our problems is not appropriate at meetings. That is what a closed mouth friend or a sponsor is supposed to be for in private. And someone should kindly help newcomers learn these things in private and not via cross talking during the meeting.

@davemccall1134

5 ай бұрын

After drinking for fifty years and with the last thirty-five years drinking excessively every day. I chose to quit nine years ago. Check into AA would be beneficial. l never felt I needed a sponsor, but I was approached by several AAers if I would want them to act as my sponsor. I would always respectfully decline and then find out I was somehow a dry drunk and was mocked and ridiculed relapse quickly without a sponsor. To be fair there were many AAers more than qualified to be a sponsor. With just as many who couldn't run a self service gas station and should be sued for malpractice. If anyone finds a sponsor that is compatible with you and they can be a asset by all means this as an opportunity to succeed. If not never allow yourself to be bullied, intimidated or manipulated to feel that without a sponsor you'll soon go back to drinking. Find a plan that works for you and work that plan, and I promise you'll be ok and be successful with defeating your alcoholism

Man I'm in the middle of this right now. 5.5 months sober working program on step 9. Some of these amends seem silly and some people (1 ex gf inperticular) are not receiving them well. I been asking god to direct my thinking in the morning and trying to carry out what im told is the next right thing. Some of this stuff makes me so uncomfortable but I do it because I'm afraid I will keep relapsing if I dont ( I never prayed I'm my life before this and can't believe I'm a ctually done ng it now. It does seem to help get me thinking about others and how I can be helpful to them also to be more forgiving to the wrongs others do by letting go of my self centered thinking)

@mikeycurtin5017

3 ай бұрын

Go with your gut on Amends. My sponsor wanted me to do some I thought were unnecessary. We argued, but I didn't do them cause I knew it was stupid .

@suetaylor5159

3 ай бұрын

I absolutely hate the steps never got past 3 all the bringing up the past ...that's what made me want to drink! Why revisit it 😢 no thank you plus the 2 different sponsors I had were just down right crazy 😜

My sponsor made me put 2 dollars in the basket can believe the gall of that guy

I'm in AA right now here in Alabama I've been sober for 16 months but been going to AA for the past 3 months and yeah you are so right. I see those guys that have been sober for years preying on the attractive women. I just focus on my sobriety and staying alcohol free I'm not looking for no damn date at AA. I don't want nobody who is just as screwed up as hell like I am😂😂😂

@karmalevel

Жыл бұрын

13 stepping is used to alleviate the boredom of meetings

@kevinmcalpine6929

Жыл бұрын

@@bobhunley4519 yes sir you are soo right every time they bring in a women's group they all stare at the men too!!!

@ShannonFreng

Жыл бұрын

There are attractive women at AA? All I've ever seen are trailer trash/junkie types. It's mostly a lower-class milieu.

@jamie.777

6 ай бұрын

😂been going to meetings for a month, been sober 43 days. Yeah, there are some creeps on those rooms. I can't imagine😅 trying to find a date there.

I will never go back to aa.Period!

I think some people are so big on the one way AA street is because it worked for them and now they want it to work for you... so its their good intentions, which are commendable. Hope everyone can stay sober whatever pathway they choose and what works for them. for me working out childhood experiences and exercising self compassion is what im working on right now, and even though i have taken some breaks from AA, it was AA that was the catalyst and honesty forum which has led me to having the thought freedom to explore paths outside AA.

Im with you. The problem people have with AA is the people. The program itself is very effective. I've known some AA police and they give the program and name. I've learned to use the program as a general guideline for life and its made a huge difference.

@dbarpuck

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!!!

@Bstrength

Жыл бұрын

You're very misinformed. AA's success rate is less than 10%.

@dbarpuck

Жыл бұрын

@@Bstrength where did you get that stat from? There is absolutely no way to ever know the true success rate of aa. What is success anyway? Just sobriety? I dont consider plain sobriety success personally, Are you misinformed? Do you have experience with AA? Not the meetings, the actual program? I will say, in my experience, EVERY single person I know, that has followed the program and stayed plugged in has not drank, and I mean that. EVERY single person that I know in my experience in my small little world that has not stayed sober and relapsed stopped doing the work at some point. That is my experience with it, ive been sober 12 years through the program of alcoholics anonymous, not the meetings, the program, the only ones i know that dont make it dont dedicate themselves to it. Not an easy thing to do or admit, but I would suggest learning more about the program before throwing out erroneous success rates.

@Bstrength

Жыл бұрын

Spoken like a true AA advocate. The stats are widely publicized if you do your homework. What works for you and your personal recovery doesn't equate to everyone. The program teaches it's the only way. And yes, I'm over a year sober now. Was forcefully entrenched in it's demands and philosophies. From day one of rehab,the three month program after,and all my time in sober living. After all my experiences, meetings, events, counseling, and working with others in the program, I've learned the following things for MY personal sobriety. 1. The fact that you said that just being sober isn't a success is the exact toxic, brainwashing,and bullying messages that AA members often regurgitate. 2. One size doesn't fit all. 3. Does nothing for depression,abuse from bad homes,traumas. 4. I'm not a sheep or a beta following so called old timers, like yourself, blindly without doing my homework and knowing myself. 5. I have my God given strength and my faith. I will not idolize anyone or anything. My faith in God and understanding his blessings and what I need to do is what drives me. 6. The program is filled with many male and female predators. Abusing impressionable and insecure minds for there own gratification. 7. Rehab does not get you sober. AA will not keep you sober. This nonsense that people relapse because of not working steps and doing service work is utter nonsense. They relapse because they still find value in getting loaded and to be even more blunt,they prefer weakness over strength because strength takes a lot of work and discipline. Spare me your ideology. Works for you, great. What someone else does to stay sober, great. 8. The program is predicated on deceit and lies. Bill Wilson stayed off alcohol by doing forms of LSD,or mescaline. Fact. He had many alcoholics doing the same treatments. Fact. This is where he coined the phrase in the steps,"spiritual experience". Had nothing to do with faith. After his death,the other founding fathers rewrote his book into their agenda. This was never what Wilson was striving for.

@dbarpuck

Жыл бұрын

@@Bstrength your 3rd point shows you know absolutely nothing about AA, so I wont bother to go any further, but good luck on your journey im happy for you that you put a year together, AA can help you even with the resentments you have against it! Thats one of the beauties of it all, anyhow whatever you choose to do is yours alone, i spoke from my experience. I dont tell people what to do, or tell anyone they need to do the work to stay sober, it speaks for itself, and doesnt need an advocate, I just felt like wasting some time on a pointless youtube comment that will prove nothing and go no where lol, but I am thoroughly human as well and no where near perfect, feel free to be an individual, AA will still be there if you ever need it

It wasn’t for me too.. sure it works for some but felt it was very clicky and if you don’t fit in the clique then you’re an outsider

@nickpn23

Жыл бұрын

I went to meetings with my partner. At the end of the meeting, she would be surrounded by six or so people - usually blokes - and I would stand there like a tit between knots of members with no one to talk to.

@shawnmendrek3544

Жыл бұрын

@@nickpn23 She shold pair with women. There are women meetings.

@DanielPokorny-so4di

Ай бұрын

Your absolutely right thats why i left after 7 years that was over 3 years ago and im still sober. Thats gotta piss them off.

I’ve been in AA and sober for 18 years. I’ve been to meetings that I would never go back to. But there are a lot of meetings in my area and I found several that I got a lot out of. So don’t let one meeting or group drive you away…

I did it for about 8 months. In the beginning I thought it was great and it did really help me during that time period. However, after about 4 months it started getting quite depressing. Every meeting we had to hear about people that died in the last week, then hear people sharing about dying from alcohol etc. I started noticing some sponsors were quite manipulative and then talked about all their personal stuff to other sponsors... It just really started giving me the ick... Needless to say that was 6 years ago and have been alcohol free since.

Thank you for sharing that and I appreciate how candid you were. I still go to AA but I understand how you feel - you make really good points and yes sheit does still happens in the fellowship that's why it was so good to hear you express. Thanks again and may the force continue to be with you!

I went to my first yesterday,i left thinking fuck that,holding hands saying prayers and all the hugging and people trying to convince you that without god your useless to anyone and people trying to convince you that they said a prayer and all the negative thoughts and feelings are now gone,i just left the rooms thinking im done with drugs,im not ending up like those people

The sponsor I had would speak about other members behind their back and tell me who to keep away from, while at the same time would talk to them. Early in my recovery he would still take me to wet places to have a coffee rather than an actual coffee shop/cafe.

@kevintucker6007

10 ай бұрын

Exactly

I got sober in AA 8 years ago and left 6 years ago. The group promised me I wouldn't stay sober a month without AA. That was 6 years ago and I am still sober and plan to be for the rest of my life. AA is really good when you are in alot of pain. The fellowship is the foundation of the program. What doesn't work is the cult doctrine that has not changed changed In 85 years, the shaming, the judging, and hypocrisy. I still recommend AA to anyone who wants to get sober; but I had to leave in order to stay sober.

@EnjoyTheShoah

Жыл бұрын

Thr steps are the foundation of the program, not the fellowship. It's not a meeting program or a fellowship program it's a 12 step program.

Very healthy approach and I love this. I’ve been ‘around’ shall we say AA for years and years but I’ve never totally become entrenched in it as I see the dogma and close mindedness and I flee!! Usually to another group and continue again.. I enjoy the fellowship, the community.. hate the dogma and lack of evolving I see in many ppl and lack of acknowledging there are many paths to recovery and one can use more than one set of tools in the toolbox!!

I began doing edibles and smoking thc/pot around year 6 or 7, maybe 8. I was not attending meetings at the time but still meeting with a sponsor. I did not tell my sponsor that I was using pot. He was an old timer and our meetings became maybe once monthly and friendly bs sessions at that. He is a cpol guy. I miss him but stillkeep in touch. Anyway, I moved states and picked up another sponsor. I picked up a chip and now havea little over 13 months. I have not had a drink in over 13 years but was honest on my usage of pot with my new network. I decided to reset my sobriety date after some deliberation. Anyway, thats my story and I have since worked steps 4-8 and part of 9. I love the fellowship, it ets me out of my head. Trying more and more to help the newcomer

My sponsor said. Take your sunglasses off as we are indoors. I fired him

Thank you for this video. Very thankful you made this video. I needed this video tonight.

I had 13 months sober in AA years ago. Went back out.... years later I went back to a morning meeting and it blew my mind at the reality of it. Ignorance isn't bliss

The book suggests try controlled drinking if a person is unsure if they are alcoholic or not!

@And.Still.I.Rise.

Ай бұрын

Basically telling ppl to go n kill themselves!

I had similar vibe from an ex girlfriend who was a serious drinker. She would find success and if is didnr agree to e writhing AA dictated, I was lying to myself and lazy and just wanted to drink , so she said. Mai. Thing I wanted to know is WHY? Why do I have this desire to drink , craving? Surely there is a nutrient. Biochemical reason? Just saying that was sacrilege and set her off She wouldn’t, and probably still won’t , open her mind to anything bu the blue book It is a form of a cult. It saves lives. But it’s a religion for sure

@karmalevel

Жыл бұрын

It’s a cult period

@davidjordan2011

Жыл бұрын

"It saves lives," but AA's effectiveness rate is said to be in the single digits, which means it *doesn't* save many, many other lives (aka, in the double digits). Methods using biochemical restoration are observed to help at least 80 percent.

You my friend are on POINT!!!! We definitely know much more now about spirituality,the brain, consciousness etc etc....Not a good fit for me...😇🤔 Awesome growth and awareness brother, thanks for sharing!!!

One relspse, they kick you out. What happen to all the talk about love, support, etc. I mistake your out, no car pick up, no phone call, no letter, no second chance.....now im drinking even more. Thank for your "help"

@shizzerla

5 ай бұрын

That's cults for you

@jcepri

2 ай бұрын

Rubbish

I am bawling watching this. I am having a hard time finding this sort of content and support. I have been a member of NA for over 14 years, and struggled a lot with this stuff. Recently some things came to light that really changed my views on addiction and recovery, but like you, I had a sponsor who was incredibly dogmatic, "my way or the highway" type, to an *extreme*. I would love to find more content like this, and resources for people who were long-term victims of this shame-based thinking. I still go to meetings here and there, but I have been on my own for 5 months now and *finally* making progress for myself, doing things I was not "allowed" to do before, because I was told that NA was the ONLY way, and coming into the rooms at 23 years old it was the only path I knew. I hope you are still reading these comments, I am having a hell of a time finding support for this.

I was too chicken to go to AA but eventually I fell in the door and stopped clucking. It helped to save my life.

kno ur pain dude! bt all I need is lov. no big dive in deep, juzt love all. even if itz cruel to tell truth or speak out, itz loving to juzt say it! creator is love eternal. saying NO iz ezy wen u love!!

I just quit 15 years ago. I hate it now....

Yeah, there's weirdos in every group of people basically. Doesnt mean all AA is like that. Theres entirely different fellowships that meet in the same building at different times. The program and meetings are separate, though. Just because you go to meetings doesn't mean you're working the aa program and vice versa. The reason he said do more research is at one point you asked this man for help and it was agreed upon that you would go to any length to stay sober.

@shawnmendrek3544

Жыл бұрын

100% agree

Even the big book says "don't you think your having more trouble with this drinking than with anything else..." " let's forget about those other things,...,trying to eliminate them all at once, and concentrate on the drink." Page 190; A.A founder Bill W and Dr Bob to alcoholic Bill D.

I remember i was at an AA meeting in rehab, my drug was fentanyl but everyone said do AA it's better. Ok, so i was in there and at the end of this guys speech i was like, "well i guess holy communion is out of the picture" 😅

I had a great sponsor. Unfortunately he killed himself a couple of decades ago. I still miss him.

@greatest7391

5 ай бұрын

A lot of people kill themselves in AA

@kazkazimierz1742

5 ай бұрын

A lot of people kill themselves who are not in AA. In my 42 years in AA I only know of about ten people who did that.@@greatest7391

@krisscanlon4051

4 ай бұрын

Sad and I'm sorry...yes because they sadly are spiritual bypassing and not getting to the true root of the original illness and its based in family abuse and dysfunction

@darlenenorton793

3 ай бұрын

​@@krisscanlon4051Yes! Unresolved childhood trauma issues that are really BEST handled by a professional in those kinds of issues...But if you talk about that in meetings you can be told:"that's NOT AA material," so is not allowed to be talked about here!" At least that's been My experience... Just saying...

Yep! That’s typical AA, after 6yrs I am questioning so many things that In the beginning I also believed and now my mind is changing and now im considered delusional all those people I saw everyday for years don’t even speak to me bc im not working the program anymore. That hurt me so much.

I never agreed with the AA mantra of once an alcoholic. They seem to be too extreme and obsessed with alcohol. It's great that it helps some people but those people are bound by AA's religion.

Kenny C, Purist Big Book Thumper here! Although I did not agree with everything in your piece, I do agree and identify with most of it. I have come along way as a sponsor, and as a Sponsee through the school of hard knocks, and I am a daily member of an AA group and my mind. My relationships in my life is great today as a result. It sounds like you are doing well on your path my friend and thank you for this video I thoroughly enjoyed it! Strength love and prayers, my brother!

AMEN! Thank you!

There’s no proof AA has saved so many lives, as they don’t keep any records. The constant references to religion really put me off, as I’m an atheist. I attended many meetings, but was eventually obliged to admit that the programme just doesn’t work for me.

Went to one Alateen meeting when I was a kid and it was super uncomfortable. Most of the people that I know that went to AA held themselves to an almost unattainable standard. I'm sure that AA in itself is helpful to some but there are other ways to achieve sobriety.

Nowhere in the first 164 pages of our program does it mention a sponsor. It encourages us to work with “other alcoholics”. All relationships should be equilateral. End of story.

I been through something similar.

I'm in a 12 step fellowship. I'm a big book thumper. What I mean by that is I try to carry the message from the book and not the war stories because people find it boring after a while. I do my best to share the hope but am big on relaying my experiences with the big book program. As for telling others what they should be doing, that is definitely not the right thing to do. Let people have their own experiences. As for barring people from meetings, that goes against the traditions. The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. Unfortunately not everyone learns the traditions and this is why the fellowships get a bit crazy. People play God in other people's lives. It's not about that. Every problem could be sorted by good sponrship and passing on the true message from the big book and the traditions. Thing is we are dealing with human nature. We all have our own defects and ways of doing things. I'm just glad I've been shown a way of life to overcome my drinking and using.

Sorry to hear of your experience. Unfortunately many in AA are on power trips because they have some years of sobriety. There are also many narcists. But as you said there are there are those that are compassionate and understanding. Ironically, the big book never recommended that people eschew the medical establishment or not seek medical treatment or avoid psychiatry. On the contrary , it recommends the alcoholics abail themselves to all helpful treatments as well as to be quick to see where the religious folks get it right. Sadly 13th steppong is a real thing and engaged in by both sexes. But people are pack animals to an extent and will follow the herd inthe good and the bad..

AA has not changed since the 1930s it's the only area of Psychiatry or medicine that has not changed since the 1930s - You have not tryed SMART Recovery

@cyndigooch1162

Жыл бұрын

egoebb They need to get with the program then, as Oprah Winfrey used to say back in the day. Lol. Seriously now, there is a lot more information available these days, including the role that childhood trauma plays in becoming dependent on alcohol and/or other drugs, yet most members don't want to accept that it's not a disease, IMHO, which is understandable. I've been told by people, who don't even know my story, that I'm not a "real alcoholic" and one woman said that I can drink again. Luckily, I know not to follow her advice because she has many of her own issues, despite not having a drink for about 33 years, so she's the last person I'd listen to. 😊

@SergyMilitaryRankings

Жыл бұрын

​@@cyndigooch1162 substance use disorder (including alcoholism) absolutely is a disease, it's a mental illness no different to depression, the disease model of addiction has been known for nearly 40 years.

Program above personalities. Some are sicker than others. In my 35yrs, I don't push Program on people. Everyone makes their own decisions. The 12 steps are the simplest way to remain sober. There is so much more enlightenment beyond AA. I don't have a set meeting schedule. If I don't leave the basics, I will never have to return to recover again.

How the hell did you get prescription valium? Id kill to get that.

I am new recovery 6 manth ago and I also joint with all,thanks

Hi. Thank u. I was mentally ill. No job etc...but even in homelessness in knew what I heard was like a weird place. I didn't know it was written in1939.

You've worked your own program up until now, how'd that work out for you?

Why are there cuts every few seconds?

My sponsor was a mental ill woman and I did not like her behavior at all. Left that cult system within 1 year and never went back. Lots of religious addiction in there too.

Great video, I agree 100%.

whats the second a

Valium and other benzos are an absolute nightmare to come off of .

I love AA. Saved my life. After decades of trying and being forced into everything else including Prison. I finally gave in and was willing to see how these AA's did it. I was smoking weed. But came to the conclusion I could not work the steps properly, and live in a true spiritual way of life using any mood altering substances. Therefore, I changed my sobriety and have been 100% sober for 3 years. I go to groups where people annoy me. My sponsor says things that piss me off, and yeah I would fire him if I thought I needed to and he could fire me. Our sponsor or the groups are made up of humans, not only are they humans they are drunks and drug addicts that are reading a 100 year old book. They are not a higher power so putting them on a pedestal and blaming them for anything is silly. No one can kick you out of AA. Sounds made up to me.

@mustscreamnomouth2692

7 ай бұрын

Nicotine and Coffee are mind altering substances. You may have to change your sobriety date dude. Be honest with yourself.

A big book thumper is someone who goes by the book. The book doesn't say anywhere to control their sponsees life. The book doesnt even say sponsor or sponsee. the chapter "working with others" gives all the direction needed when working with others. As a recovered alcoholic who takes people through the 12 steps, I stay out of controlling anything in their life completely. If someone asks me to be their sponsor, i say i dont use that word, and i will not be your sponsor, but i will guide you through the steps. If they dont want to do the steps, then it ends there with no hard feelings...that is all. A lot of sponsors who are policing AA do not even follow the book. AA and the work i did via the book with guidance from other alcoholics who did the work is the only thing that keeps me sober, and I've tried everything. If someone doesn't need AA and the 12 steps to stay sober, I tip my hat to them.

Thanks for this vid I respect AA too but it just not for me I did give it a good go but it’s too much like religion to me

AA is a stepping stone for some we didn't arrive on a winning streak. So there will be people who give you a bad taste in your mouth. But you went to aa broken and took what you needed leave the the rest alone. Hence anonymous. Enjoy your endeavors alone.

You have to understand sponsors are just someone who has had atleast a year of sobriety. They arent a licensed therapist so they cant help you that well. At the end of the day they are a flawed human being and best to take their opinions with a grain of salt. Also dont take it personally and dont follow them blindly.

The a 90 days thing was invented by recovery groups and not aa.

Thank u my friend

I go to AA and will always go to an AA meeting because everytime i go i see what i did or what im working on or what I need to work on everyone in AA is in a diferent stage and no the yrs of sobriety do not matter a 20 yr old sober man or woman can actually be on stage 1 😂😂🤦🏽‍♂️ and a 1 yr old sober can be on stage 100 of sobriety of course im just trying to make a point the saying is “ some are sicker then others “ and when a guy or gal tells you you need to go drink again they are looking for the right answer “ No hell No i cant do that shit again the last time I almost died and I could have killed someone fuck you i wont that that shit again “

I am a strong believer in the individual and the power that we all possess as individuals. To say that "I am powerless to stop drinking.", is surrendering your individual power that God gave to you. If hanging out with these people helps you, then do so, but don't allow yourself to become indoctrinated by this group. I am not saying that it is good to drink, but sometimes you have to drink to remain sane. In my case, I bought a breathalyzer for about $130 and researched that most people metabolize alcohol at the rate of .16 percent/hour. Using these tools, I can still drink but also know when I must stop for the night in order to report to my job sober the next day. I have known some people who were, as AA would say, were, dry drunks, and they fell. They drank, got very drunk and got into a very lot of trouble as a result. This is just a suggestion that may work for some people like me.

@jcepri

2 ай бұрын

Wow, now there's a strategy. lol

I couldn't do what you did with grass, Valium etc. Any drug - including booze - rapidly becomes all of them to excess. Having said that, at the other end of the spectrum are rigid step types who seem to want to gain a still-point in all circumstances and that doesn't suit me either. Keep on keeping on brother.

So are you drinking now?

Thankyou

Does the big book even mention sponsors?

I experienced the same, I can usually tell by eye contact who are predators. Or the look. You know it when you see it. Respect comes from the eyes and movements. A lot of the guys are just like the high school ego totting hookup culture with a twist, they should be more serious. I just ignore the women's eye contact usually, even know I can tell they are staring over looking at me. I see a lot of these scumbags for who they are(predators). I know some people are only there because of a judge, but make sure your sponser is clean for 10+ years and same sex as you if you can.

I fired a sponsor the other day and got a much nicer chilled out one. It’s true as in some sponsors turn control freaks. You will find them

My sponsor invited a group of us to a Christmas party only there was an enormous amount of alcohol on display. It was at their house. I was left alone the whole time. 😢

@shizzerla

5 ай бұрын

Try get some legitimate therapy. Being around alcohol shouldn't be a problem if you get the right help

I did AA 30 years ago. You said it was a Christ consiencness (sp?) program; I wanted to share a Psalm that resonated with me with my recovery and was told by the group I could not share anything that wasn't big book related. Bye Bye AA!

@Sanity333

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad to see there are still some standing up for traditions. I wish more groups stood on the traditions.

AA is great for quitting drinking, that’s why it’s called “Alcoholics Anonymous” not marijuana anonymous, not pill poppers anonymous.

AA broke up my marriage my husband started hitting on and dating the young new COmers not yo mention he drank the whole time he went

@marycrafcheck4905

Жыл бұрын

Let me fix that -AA didn’t break it my husband did AA is great he just didn’t work the program

@greatest7391

Жыл бұрын

@@marycrafcheck4905 Did Bill Wilson work his own program? He was a serial 13 Stepper

@cyndigooch1162

Жыл бұрын

​@@greatest7391 That's exactly right and a lot of AA members don't know about that, or don't want to know! Of course, many will say that "no one is perfect" etc, yet Bill Wilson was viewed as a type of God when I first went to AA about 34 years ago, so was surprised when I found out about his behaviour. He had other big issues in his life, but don't have time to go into all that now. I was in a bizarre religious cult when I was young and have a low tolerance for hypocritical people, which goes back to my childhood as well, and it was extremely common at AA and NA meetings, especially in regard to sponsors. 🙁

@greatest7391

Жыл бұрын

@@cyndigooch1162 It is the first sponser who does the most damage because I was at a low ebb in my life and was looking for a lifeline in AA/NA which promised me a wonderful etc, it was all program propaganda & Bill Wilson was a Guru who the the answer to everything.

I had 5 Sponsors in 2 years. I didn't fire any of them. They gave up on me.

Him: i need to stop drinking and go to a 12step program. Sponsor: why are you not working the 12step program and doing drugs? Him: total shock. Ego: make a video on this mofo!

I really enjoy you and Chris Scott. I was always interested also in the biochemical component and what happens in the brain. I never bought into putting a label on oneself for the rest of your life. How limiting.

Weird how this “resonates” with me much more than AA lol.

90 % of members carry the illness to the table on a daily. We also attract in life what we project in life , seems this is the case here. Best of luck, with everything.

Nobody needs that garbage, the only thing that works is not drinking

@SergyMilitaryRankings

Жыл бұрын

This is like saying to a homeless person they just need a house.

@murphmurph2124

Жыл бұрын

​@@SergyMilitaryRankings Yeah and ???

@Sanity333

Жыл бұрын

😂😂😂

@kennithminnich

Жыл бұрын

You miss the point of a 12 step program. Drinking is just a manifestation of our problems.

Sadly the AA success rate is only 10%! A quick Google will show you that 👍 When I gave up a year ago I looked into it but I didn’t like the idea of being told I was basically powerless and always would be in the face of alcoholism. For the year before I gave up I learned everything that Annie Grace ( you tube) and people like her had to say. I learned what alcohol does to the brain and how will power on its own isn’t enough. Knowledge is power … and yes, dedication too and it wasn’t easy but a year on alcohol plays no part in my life. I don’t need meetings, I am not an alcoholic. People who give up smoking aren’t called smokers all their lives, same with other drugs… yet the AA calls us an alcoholic all your life. It may be that my brain is now wired in such a way, after 40 years of heavy drinking that I mustn’t touch it again but as I stand now I am a non drinker. Whatever works I guess. Anyway, just my penny worth. Wishing you all the best on your journeys thanks 🙏

@KennyC72

Жыл бұрын

Less than 10% go through the 12 steps with a sponsor so you are correct! 💖🙏🏼

@J-D248

Жыл бұрын

Let me ask this. How do you collect statistics on a program that practices anonymity?

@Ditto463

Жыл бұрын

@@J-D248 let me tell you….statistics can be gathered anonymously

@bartvandenberg977

Жыл бұрын

I believe its less then 10%.

I have been in AA since 1978 and never had a sponsor. When I first joined here in England nobody mentioned sponsor so we were all just friends. I fauil to see the need or reason for a sponsor, as far as I am concerned the book clearly telles you how to get and stay sober not complicated so what do people need sponsors for. The idea of me sponsoring anybody is alien, I have helped many and we have stayed friends through sobriety and slip, without me having to withdraw my friendship. The word sponsor does not appear in the main text of the Big Bookk. There are always people who know better and are trying to re-invent the wheel, just leave them to it and do your own thing. I do not see many people with sponsors being "happy, joyous and free", they seem to rely on another human being instaed of themselves and their higher power ( I use my conscience. Keep it simple folks !! Birte, England xxx

I would assume getting high and being sober are opposites 🤔 so I could see how the “m&m” thing could be harmful if it was seen as an alternative to drinking alcohol to others attending AA meetings trying to be abstinent.

@kayligo

7 ай бұрын

Page 90 big book talks about how important it is at the persons willing to quit drinking and do not try to force them so if this guy wasn’t ready to give up marijuana, it’s really not his sponsors place to try to force him to do so

@Sanity333

7 ай бұрын

@@kayligo I agree. Search out another one and try again. If people wanna drink or get high that’s their own business. I am not surprised when people drink. It’s not til after the 5th step on 75 that we even begin to have spiritual experiences and it’s not til the 12th step that it makes declaration that something has happened. And even then so many let up for whatever reason and don’t stay sober. Good comment kayligo.

I was 13 stepped by my sponsor's former girlfriend.