A lot of people are wondering why there is no reverse polarity protection diode at the very least, and its a GREAT question. The answer? Soundigital didn't fit one. 😮?? Yes, the base circuit of these is a cloned Soundigital made in China. Many brands are using this cloned base circuit in their new "budget" series amps. Im not sure the reasoning that protection diodes arent common practice anymore, but it certainly causes a lot more damage than necessary. FYI, reverse protection diodes in car amps are fitted in parallel across the power terminals so that they conduct and sacrifice themselves in reverse polarity scenario. And oh, I did fix this amp of course, but customer was liable for costs, rather than manufacturer ☺

@stefanvoigt384

2 жыл бұрын

First: Thanks for your Videos! The algorithm did it's job and I subscribed immediately! To the topic: A real diode would probably not work for higher output amps, because of the huge currents. However it is pretty common to use a "active" diode aka a series pass transistor that is biased by a zener in the right polarity. Another way would be to shunt the reverse current with a mosfet in parallel to the input terminals and blowing a lower rated fuse. Both solutions however need quite beefy fets that are expensive to add to the design. But I agree, that at least one way of saving the amp should be expectable in modern designs.

@diabolicalartificer

2 жыл бұрын

That's shocking. Most if not all 12v powered devices have reverse diode protection, it's standard practice AFAIK and if not it's sound electronic engineering design.

@cartycartyamplifiersalesrepair

2 жыл бұрын

They should really do something about that reverse polarity issue it's not fair for those people who make these kind of mistakes lol 😆😂🤣

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

The company gave them a user manual that explains how to connect the amp and the requirements. They even painted what terminal is pos and neg on the amp. The company does everything they can to prevent this mistake. The owners should be responsible for how they wired the amp. If they are so inexperienced they wire pos and neg backwards then they should of gotten some help. I met plenty of people with systems who didn't install them cause they know nothing about them. I get its cheaper to DIY but you can't expect these companies to hold the owners hand through the install. Its a simply got the wires reversed problem but the manual said what was what and what to do and what not to do. Damage from user error should be on the user. Not to mention the company has to sell these amps at a market price, trying to predict every foul up someone who didn't read the directions or connectors increases the production cost. I'd rather the one or two guys who can't look before connecting 2 wires pay the bill for their screw up than everybody pay so those 2 guys can make that mistake...

@D10010101

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jamez84 To be far everyone makes mistakes even professionals. Companies could help prevent this by colour codeing the terminals Red and Black that would go a long way to prevent this sort of thing and not relay on tiny + and - .

That’s what I thought as soon as I saw the arcing on the ground. Always use different color power wires and check with a volt meter if in any doubt like 2 black wires used for your main power.

@james10739

2 жыл бұрын

I don't have that much of a problem with the same color wires but I'd probably add some red heatshrink on the positive or some red tape or if you can see the ground like where it's grounded but mostly just for my vehicle where no one else would be touching it because you have to know what you are doing

@Thumper68

2 жыл бұрын

There’s no issue with same color wires even doing licensed electrical work you just have to mark wires properly with certain length of tape that’s the correct color. Could use heat shrink as well. These issues happen from those who are inexperienced or know so much they wouldn’t make such dumb error so they don’t look cause they are that dumb lol

@502C.r.H

2 жыл бұрын

It burns me up when people use the same color wire for + and - and don't even use identification if they do so...

@elcaminosupersport

2 жыл бұрын

Me if wires are same color I at least use different color electrical tape red & black

@wilsonrawlin8547

Жыл бұрын

I've seen PDU wire with all the same color wire. The cable markers are the only way to tell them apart. It forces you to verify each and every run / connection.

Agreed, I made this exact mistake when I was younger. Now - I Use diff color wire and check twice before termination.

100% spot on Sam. One of the items on my checklist for the warranty repair - check for reverse polarity.

@bigstone5124

2 жыл бұрын

👍 Well done

Two valuable lessons that the owner of this amplifier will take away One. check that the wires that they are putting into the amp are the correct way rounds two marking the cables with red or black or some kind of identifier I saw that both his wires are black so even if he was connecting up for the first time thid could even be a mistake made regardless of whether he was swapping an amp or not with the posts polarity the different way round between the two amps

You are exactly right. That is what happened. Bummer. He showed have been more aware and actually looked at it beforehand

Hey sam, i rellay appreciate the amount of videos your posting atm, love it!

10 seconds to check positive and negative cost nothing compared to damage and time lost for toasty amp indipendent if it is old or small. Thanks for new video Sam🤠

Great video Sam that's exactly what happens revers polarity 👍 🙏

Great video. You are definitely so awesome at your job. Keep up the good work

made this mistake once, felt like a total idiot, I spent the next afternoon fixing it and did eventually get it running again but it was a good lesson to learn early.

yeah instantly soon as I saw the ground terminal I know it was hooked up backwards. sad fact is that I know 2 people now who didn't notice that they flipped the terminals on the new Sundown amps and burnt them up. hurts my heart.

something that high power would use 1 or both of 2 methods to protect it. 1. a diode placed across the power rails so if you reverse the polarity it would act as a short and blow the fuse. 2. if you ever worked with raspberry pi board it uses a combination of a zener diode and a transistor (i think) to protect the circuit. if it is low power enough a diode in series with the load is good enough because the loss is not an issue. high power stuff like amplifiers and inverters will use a diode across the power leads because there is no loss and it takes advantage of how a diode works. the 3rd way uses a transistor and diode so if the polarity is wrong it will not turn on. something really high power i guess you could do the same thing with a relay and diode. the capacitors take time to blow up probably the customer saw the sparking and pulled the power before the damage went beyond the fets. it is possible that the caps are damaged and may have to be replaced. if i was the manufacturer i would . 1. cover the repair and even rush out a replacement unit on the grounds of ok it may be a mistake. 2. set a standard practice of making all the wiring the same or follow a standard. 3. put a big bold warning paper in the top of the contents in the box so it would get noticed as soon as you open the box. warning it is possible that the terminals polarity may be different than that of what you are replacing please observe the polarity before putting power to the unit. or something like that.

Yeah this is spot on true, Fets are by nature due to their body diode not able to block current in reverse polarity and because you still get the diode drop voltage across it you also get the heat generated as well hence they got so screaming hot in the process. basically you won´t hurt a mosfet in reverse polarity unless the current get too high and they will act as a diode instead and you can even turn the gate on to make it an active rectifier. but the design of the amp is switching and if you open all at once you get this magic smoke BBQ party as they will all short out at the same time

This video is SO crazy I had to watch it twice..

Best advice to prevent this stuff from happening.. 1) different color wire or black tape the ground (double check b4 connect) 2) use wire ferrules or solder the ends of the wire to prevent fraying 3) some guys use a testing light to charge the amps internal caps before powering up. I'm not 100% on this but I've heard the light bulb will blow on one of those current testers and prevent damage like this. I've never tried it myself.. 4) read read read read read the instruction and owners manual BEFORE you install 5) FUSE the power line.. (I originally forgot and had to add this one...smh)

@JasonWW2000

2 жыл бұрын

Also, read the label on the terminals. Don't assume they are in the same orientation from amp to amp.

@Des420

2 жыл бұрын

Can’t use ferrules on 0 gauge.

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

@@Des420 they make 0 gauge ferrules welders use them all the time. You can also just tin the ends with solder. This will stop fraying when clamping the wire, prevent stray wires from killing the amp, and give a better power connection.. . It will also stop corrosion in the wire from occurring.

Fucking classic. I did the same thing with the molex harness to my EQ about a year ago. I assumed because they had the same connector and same brand that it would be the same pinout. Nope. Brand new EQ blown.

This is exactly why you not only pay attention but disconnect the power source before installing and install positive leads first then ground. He clearly hooked them up live plenty of times with the arcing

@MarkLada

10 ай бұрын

What? You always always always hook up the ground wire first.. So there's no chance of sending current through an ungrounded circuit.. Also, if you hook up the power wire first then the ground wire arcs out when you insert it, and it can send current thru the circuit backwards and fry it.. That's what happened to this amp.. It wasn't hooked up backwards.. The owner hooked the power wire up first and then the ground wire arced out and sent the full power of the battery thru the amplifier backwards..

(+) RED .. I don't see RED . Lazy Install ?

Customers got two black wires, f-ed up n hooked it up backwards. He then went "oh man, I f-ed up yo" n tried to act like he didn't. That and this also means he diesnt have proper fuses, that may have saved his ass. I hate liers... I digress, I'm glad you've got a steady work load Sam. Glad to hear. Keep up the good work brotha

@v12alpine

2 жыл бұрын

No fuse for sure, and that was more than a split second, 5 seconds at least. No wonder why a car burns to the ground.

@kswis

2 жыл бұрын

@@v12alpine right? Doesn't seem important till the fire department is squirting water all over your expensive melted equipment...

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

@@kswis 100% I completely forgot about the fuse. I always think its for protecting the wire and car but completely forgot about it. I've seen a lot of guys trying to blame Sundown for someone making this mistake and protection diodes or special power terminals when a simple fuse might suffice.. IDK, I've always been super careful when connecting an amp I spent SO much money on so I've never had this issue....

@kswis

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jamez84 I had a panel rub through a power run, a $2 part saved the thousands in equipment, the car, the freakin hassel of starting a new build from zero. All things considered,, even the expensive ceramic fuses are worth it. Not that they're that much better.

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

@@kswis I had a grommet come off and almost cause the same thing. I ALWAYS fuse my power lines just in case. But what saved my wire from grounding out was that I also had PET expandable braided sleeving on the power wires to protect them and clean up the install. The PET Sleeve was noticeably cut by the sheet metal going thru the firewall. I replaced the grommet with a better fitting one and problem solved. Now my brother had a battery clamp break and the battery tilted and melted EVERY wire in his car. It happenend to a 95 olds cutlass of his completely totaled the car over a 20 dollar battery clamp...

I’ve done this before when I was newer to audio, but now I check my wires alllll the time to make sure I never wire in reveres polarity

Protection circuits are often simply not there on budget electronics because the most important factor on these types of devices at those price points is cost. Pennies count when you are manufacturing potentially millions of units, and the bean counters will make sure that those price points are met. The first to go are often non critical circuits.

@phillipvill

Жыл бұрын

Their is some on the cheapest amp audio bank

See this alot in the warranty that i do as well. Same boards just a different name on the outside. Also the caps didnt see much reverse voltage because of the internal diodes in the fets. They have become the reverse polarity protection instead of actual diodes between the power terminals

Good vid Sam customer was unlucky getting the cables mixed up. Happens to the best of us hey.keep up the good work

@Des420

2 жыл бұрын

It’s unlucky that the manufacturer doesn’t include a sticker on the terminals, indicating the orientation has changed from previous models and to double check before installation.

No joke I did this with my down4sound JP23 because the amp was mounted upside down compared to my previous SAE2000D. I had the ground connected solidly to the positive input thinking it was ground, I went to put the power in (which I thought was ground) and it shocked so much it looked like someone was welding for a second. The Down4Sound JP23 took it! I didn't damage anything visibly besides some arcing on the input terminal, I've been playing the amplifier hard almost an hour a day for nearly a year now with no issues. I was for sure I destroyed the amp the second that arc happened, but the JP23 is a well built amp it seems. I would LOVE for you to do a review of the JP23's circuitry and components.

@ChadsLoud

2 жыл бұрын

Also, I had a supercap bank connected as well so I'm SHOCKED it didn't destroy the amp

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

Did you have a fuse on the line?

@ChadsLoud

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jamez84 yeah a 250a ANL fuse

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

@@ChadsLoud did the fuse blow? I think this amp got fried in the video due to a lack of a fuse...

@ChadsLoud

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jamez84 fuse didn't blow but I did swap it out before correctly wiring up the amplifier. I don't think I had the polarity reversed long enough to blow the fuse, the second I saw that spark I yanked the cable back

DAMN. just DAMN. Poor guy. I noticed the power wires you flashed up there, didn't look like they were clearly identified. Either way, that sucks man :( bummer

4:27 I had a near miss hooking up an amp I was testing just after testing another with the terminals reversed as this does, very happy I was using my power supply with short circuit protection

Great video Sam. Really cool to see how you go through something like that

Biggest killer of amps = the owner

@everyhandletaken

2 жыл бұрын

Initially I thought to myself “but I have had amps die..” then I realised you are 100% correct 😂 truth hurts.

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

@@everyhandletaken I say it from experience...😂😂 So many people get salty when they hear that. I got a friend he's 23, and he has blown almost every sub and amp he has had since he was 17. I'm 37 now and have had subs and amps last 20yrs some not so long... Much of it is due to taking care of them and proper install and treatment of the system. Simply avoiding clipping, bottoming the subs, keeping the voltage hi and current up, and mounting amps with clean wiring will help out tremendously when trying to extend the life of your equipment. No matter what in the end most of the fails of amps or woofers can come back to the owner in one way or another. I myself have done these screw ups. I smoked a brand new kicker sub on the rear deck of a Cadillac on the 1st power up... It was my fault. Even though I thought it wasnt my fault at the time, it still left some brand bias in my blood over the sub being smoked so fast. Esp coz I was running in their recommended power range but wasn't paying attention to everything going on in my trunk... next thing I got smoke so bad I though the amp was on fire. Turns out it was the voicecoil. I was trying to run a free air set up and the sub I bought said it could run free air. It also said it was rated 600 rms, yeah... I hooked up a Sony xplode 500 (194RMS x 2) amp and cooked that sub. Its was the woofer version of gone in 60 seconds. Can I really blame Kicker? They didn't hook up the sub, they also didn't say that their "free air" sub couldn't handle 600RMS in a free air situation. I feel the due diligence to figure this stuff out fell on my shoulders. Now a days guys ask facebook groups and get 1000 different answers for a problem and only a couple solutions. I didn't have that then.. So I learned the hard way and grew from my mistakes. Out of all my years the best advice I can give is, even if you're on a really tight budget take the time to mount your amp, solder the wire ends or use ferrules to prevent stray wire strands from getting in your amp. Get a cheap multimeter to check basic stuff like ohm load, or making sure your ground is good and doesn't have a bunch of resistance on it. Find out what your alternator puts out a car with an 80 amp alt isn't going to run a 3k amp but a car with 240 amp alt and a 2nd battery can. Lastly start off light on your gains and use Ohm's law to help you set gains or use test tones and a multimeter. When I first started everyone set gains by ear.. these days we have hand held oscilloscopes, etc these tools are worth the money and will bring your install to the next level. Everyone has been or knows the guy with subs, amps and wires just a lose mess in the back of their vehicle... don't be that guy and good luck.

@everyhandletaken

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jamez84 our journey has been pretty similar, including the length of time. It all seems so easy, until you get into the details- at the same time it is a lot of fun. Widely vary opinions make it hard for newcomers, but there is a lot more useful information available these days for sure (if you wade through the nonsense). I know I will be cranking those dials until the end of time & wouldn’t have it any other way 🤘🏻

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

@@everyhandletaken It amazes me how varied the car audio industry is. Most people think its just kids, but kids aren't spending 10k on amps. Kids aren't spending hours tuning a dsp and the ones that are, will be life time bass heads, audiophiles, and enthusiasts. Ill say this, it helps if the generation prior is always accepting of the next generations. I've seen so many guys in car audio who aren't open minded. From brand bias to amp class biases, etc some people are out hating on people or parts of the car audio community. I will admit to getting frustrated my self with some of the stuff. Usually its misinformation or people not willing to use Google and just look something up. Like the definition of THD, or that class D amps the D doesn't stand for digital and theirs not digital about it.

He absolutely reversed the wires. I also noticed though, that there was similar damage on the ground of his old amp as well.

@jlev505

Жыл бұрын

I had to go back and look. You are right. Very slight arcing soot around the ground as well.

good day great observation! let me ask this this would a fuse on the b+ line prevented this? and is there a diode power supply circuit in the amp to prevent this? i also think if the customer had taken out pics of the wire ends that he had inserted into the amp we would have seen that the current wire (B+) had scorch marks as well, but ant the end of it all the wires should have been colout coded. great vid.

I I knew what I was looking at as soon as I saw all that arcing on the negative terminal plus the picture of the guys install you can clearly see that both the power and ground are solid black cables, and the reverse polarity distribution from both amps blocks the half bridge 3500 to this full bride 3.5k... ooopsy

Interesting vid 👍

User Error can never be completely eliminated. Yo have to develop an air tight mental process or checklist for connecting your DC power supplies to cables and components EVERY SINGLE TIME. Same for hard wiring any and all AC/DC power circuits. I have built and connected 10s of thousands of power cables, circuits, boards, etc. and have never put power to a reverse polarity circuit. It is something you always verify EVERY SINGLE TIME BEFORE APPLYING POWER.

Accidents happen, I hope distributor covers it under warranty and you inform the installer, to put some red heat shrink on the +12v wire

yes also my first thought, switched positive and negative of the power. But has this amp no protection for that? In the picture, +/- are these two black wires??? First error.

Add a couple of 300a protection diodes for reverse polarity.

If you hook the power to the ground first in a "reverse" setup, you can get much more performance out of an amp. Most people just do it in the wrong order. Many times when an amp doesn't seem to meet rated output, reversing the power and ground wires on the terminals will help.

@fatyMuthaFucknBiscts

2 жыл бұрын

What the fuck lol

@Badnewz93SHO

2 жыл бұрын

To anyone reading this "advice", do not do this. The results will be the same no matter the order. Always connect positive battery power to the positive terminal on your amplifier. It will not improve your amp performance to hook it up backwards, it will blow it.

#TeamNoFuse

this was so me... too exited to swap amps.kx2500.1 to.. sd3000.1 1ohm went pop smoking 🙈 + - - + 🔥🔥🔥

I had a SaeV3-2500d I swapped out for a Salt 4 and the neg and pos were reversed and I almost done that! 😁

HEY!!!!! WHAT HAPPENED WITH YOUR AMPLIFIER BUILD THE ONE THAT WAS GOING TO BE TESTED BY OLD SCHOOL KZreadR. I was really into that. I hope I didn't miss it somehow. Anyway thanks for the amp geek content. Wish I was able to more than Like and sub. Great content!!!

Another set of reasons why I always disconnect the battery before doing installs and do checks before plugging electrical back in.

My thought when I saw the thermal pad: HOLYSH!T

I know at these power levels the currents involved are not trivial, but they should have some form of reverse-input protection given its car audio and people just stuff wires into the back of the thing to power it. Given the high current draw, any sort of reverse-blocking arrangement is out of the question as there would be too much dissipation for any sort of diode, and the transistors needed would be quite large and cumbersome, or too expensive if there are many parallel transistors to handle it. However, having two high-current diodes (Edit: Schottky, of course, or they wont help much) there to crowbar the supply and blow the fuse would be a good approach. At these power levels, I would not fathom running anything sans OC protection, so the diodes only have to conduct for a few hundred milliseconds to pop the fuses, and all that would happen is you would feel like an idiot, and just get some more once you got over it. Now people could say fusing is too much of a hassle at these power levels, but with so much current running around, it makes needing proper protection all that much more critical. In that case of no fuse, the diodes would just become more detritus in the bottom of the amplifier case, but at least then you could say without any hint of doubt that the customer was truly negligent. And regarding the capacitors, Im not surprised as all the active devices have to blow open circuit before there is enough reverse voltage to blow them. At the start, the voltage will be pulled almost to ground by all the FETs that have found their body diodes suddenly in hard conduction.

@drozcompany4132

2 жыл бұрын

Schottky diodes at those current ratings usually have severe reverse leakage current, sometimes on the order of hundreds of mA, which will drain the battery, unfortunately. The reverse leakage gets worse with temperature. It would probably work for reverse protection but it would have to be a BIG diode. I personally don't believe that this event was a 'fraction of a second' to cause discoloration in the kapton tape like that. It was connected for a while and may well have blown the fuse but he didn't say.

@mysock351C

2 жыл бұрын

@@drozcompany4132 That's a good point. Some of them are reasonable at normal temperatures of about 40-50 °C you might encounter in the summer, and would not place too much of an undue draw on the battery unless the thing was parked in death valley, but there would be other issues to contend with by that point. The time it needs to conduct for is not very long and only when the amplifier is non-operational (i.e. we are hooking it up), just long enough to blow the fuse. The problem with the body diodes is that they have a high forward voltage, and the current path has quite a bit of resistance. You are probably right that it did not blow right away, which is the real issue. The fact that they could probably not pull enough current to blow the fuse in timely fashion along with the ~1V drop meant that the transistors got quite hot. Also its worth noting that the diodes would not need to conduct the full current, only siphon enough current away to prevent the body diodes from collectively being taken beyond their ratings before the fuse can blow. I suspect the real issue would ultimately be the additional BOM cost since the amplifiers that need this protection the most are the ones that have fairly slim profit margins. The shit ones we don't care about and the real high end ones are typically only purchased by people who know better. Its the stuff in-between that gets bought by people just careless enough to make these mistakes.

@mysock351C

2 жыл бұрын

@@drozcompany4132 Its also worth noting that lead-acid batteries have a fairly high self-discharge rate, so if the leakage is not too large it will not have as much of a perceived impact. But the diodes that would fit the design criteria do cost up to a few dollars each, so that might be too much to bear for the bean counters, which is a typical issue in consumer electronics. Its only good enough to simply work most of the time. Edit: And there may be other ways to do it. Its kind of an interesting question, really. How can you protect things that run at these sort of power levels without it becoming uncompetitive from a cost standpoint. I suspect the question has been asked internally, and the "solution" decided on was to fortify the warrantee with a disclaimer for the unwary.

@akkudakkupl

2 жыл бұрын

You can do reverse polarity protection with MOSFETs, it's trivial and when the MOSFET is closed it has 'low' series resistance.

@mysock351C

2 жыл бұрын

@@akkudakkupl The issue here is the high currents involved. The amp probably pulls up to about 350 amps. It could be done but it would require multiple fets in parallel, which gets into cost issues with these things due to their low price point.

Hey there. This was very interesting, absolutely important to ensure you check +ve /-ve channels connections. What did you do with the blown amplifier?

@barevids

Жыл бұрын

Repaired it ☺ customer paid

where is the protection diode for this issue?

@barevids

2 жыл бұрын

left on the "costs cut" spreadsheet

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

@@barevids Exactly, I'd rather pay less for an amp than pay more for an amp that allows a few people to make this mistake.

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

Someone brought up fuses, I didnt see any in the pics and wouldnt the fuse blow protecting the amp.... if it were on the power wire.

I own a Sundown Audio SFB-1800.5D and I used this amp for a year with no issues then one morning I went out turned on the car and stereo and sparks, smoke and flame shot out the fan side of the amp. Sundown Audio replaced the amp with no issues, the replacement amp was used for 1 month before I had a different problem with it, went out in the morning played music was all working perfect, got home turned all off, went out again, same day, early afternoon amp went into protection and still stuck in protection on the test bench PSU now had to RMA another amp so far it has costed me almost $350 in shipping half the price of the amp in AUD. I am not sure if they were built with internal fuses if that would have saved the amp from the first fault but the second fault is just weird. I have tested all the speakers and they are all fine without any issues. deciding to move away from 5 channel to a 2 amp combo Sundown Audio SAE-900.2D V.3 and a Sundown Audio SDX-100.4 hoping I have better luck. I have own around 15 cars every single one of them have had full stereo systems in them all of which I installed, got my accreditation and worked in the industry for 3 years back in 2002-2005 and have never had an amp ever fail on me, lucky... maybe, speakers fail yes but never an amp or head unit. I was going to go to a different brand but store I bought it from wants me to stick with Sundown Audio.

@barevids

Жыл бұрын

Definitely switch brands. Sundown don't "make" amps they just commission generic circuits from buildhouses. Go with a brand that actually designs their own amps.

@nemoaspieman369

Жыл бұрын

@@barevids Which brand should I consider. The store that is replacing the amp once warranty returns them a working amp is Woofersetc. So will have too see what choices they have based on your feedback. I really appreciate the time you take to connect with your community and viewers, kudos.

Is the amp repairable? Looks like you need to replace mosfets and repair the board traces at a minimum. Is it an expensive repair?

Great video! Is the SIA amp a competitor to the Taramps Smart series? Power ratings would say so but some Facebook guys say otherwise

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

Facebook guys are the leading cause of misinformation in car audio and everywhere else.

Would you happen to know what's the part number for the h9 and h1 fets?

Please specify the power supply gate drive ic number (8 pin ic )

Good video! How does reverse protection work on an amp (if any)?

@JasonWW2000

2 жыл бұрын

They use a large diode that prevents the power from flowing if hooked up wrong.

@diabolicalartificer

2 жыл бұрын

A diode lets current flow one way, when it;s in reverse biased IE + to cathode, negative or ground to anode across a power supply input no current flows. Connect the other way ( the wrong way for the amp) current flows through the diode causing a short circuit, a lot of current flows causing the fuse to blow. The reverse diode has to withstand all that current for long enough for the fuse to blow. With transistors the transistors often die before the fuse blows, hence why are known in repair circles as three legged fuses.

Lol, I’ve done that but I had a fuse and it blew instantly before causing any damage to the amp

What are you thoughts in general of the Sia line?

How come they dont put a sacrificial diode in place between the b+ and ground? I did this a LONG time ago to one of my MTX 2300Xs. Thankfully it just smoked the on board fuses.

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

If they recommend a fuse on the power wire, do they really need a diode on the amp? The pics I saw were 2 black wires and no fuses. I wonder if this is another team no fuse guy from facebook....

@steve390gold

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jamez84 yes they most certainly do need a sacrificial diode. A fuse on the B+ line by itself will not prevent amplifier damage as seen in this video. But add in a sacrificial diode and it may save the amp. This diode will be the easiest path for current to pass and only it will see current and hopefully will pass current a long enough time for the inline fuse to blow. If there is no fuse then the diode will eventually melt down then all the fets get cooked up and traces blown. I saw this with about 4 of the 20 CAB1600.1s I repaired last year. Easy repair to be honest. I'm guessing this guy probably didn't run a simple ANL 300a fuse like you said. It amazes me how stubbornly people insist fuses arent needed on the facebook bass groups.

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

@@steve390gold it amazes me that with an amp of this price they didn't fuse the line and double check before connecting the amp. I really think a fuse could of saved the amp after talking to other fellas who made the same mistake with a fuse in line or fuse on the amp they all blew before major damage occurred. I get the diode but I think a fuse would work to. I'm not 100 on it though. Its a mistake I've never made. Closest thing to this ive seen was a battery clamp break and the battery ground itself out and melt every wire in the car. It literally cooked my brothers car in seconds and completely junked the car over a broken 20 dollar battery clamp....

The caps probably didn’t see more than 1-2V across them given it was effectively a short circuit with climbing resistance as the traces fused.

@barevids

2 жыл бұрын

dead right!

I did that once with an Alpine pdx amp. All it blew was the fuses. If thats all that caused that damage, then they should rethink the design

Shouldn't it have had some protection against wiring it up in reverse polarity?

Looks like they wired the power and ground leads backwards

i defintly would like too see u repair this amp.. 👀😍 👌💪🔊🔊

@barevids

2 жыл бұрын

It just needed new fets and ground trace repair ☺

Wait wouldn't there be a fuse to prevent this? I've done that before and it didn't damage my amplifier just popped the fuse.

You are a genius. Some people are learning from KZread another ones are trying

Two black wires for power XD guy was asking for this exact failure sooner or later.

What are your thoughts on this amp?

Bro I’ve got lucky with my saz3500v2 did the to it thank god it didn’t do the same thing

With the SFB’s it’s the luck of the draw, you either get a good amp or bad amp. My SFB 8k no problems at all, but my SFB 3k lasted only 2 months. 🤷🏼‍♂️

@john4791

Жыл бұрын

Your 8k still going strong ? Updated review ?? I might buy one . I've been in the air on the SFB.

huh i would have thot thet had protection from i could have swore ive hook one up backwards before and it just dint come on but maybe im wrong

Team no fuse?

The people saying the company should replace are the same ones that drop a tv and say it’s the stores fault. This is why prices rise. You don’t reward bad behavior!

I also noticed both wires were black instead one red and one black

Why can't customers take responsibility for their mistakes. I've been doing this for going on 30 years and I still make stupid mistakes and when I do , I own them. I'm in this industry and 90 percent of warranty returns where the customer says ... " Idk what happened but it stopped working and everything was 100 percent perfect on my end" then when I get said item back , it's obviously customer abuse. Why why why can't people be accountable?

I guessed it was soon as I seen the burning of the ground area

So no reverse polarity diode protection in the amp? Wonderful....

So then there's no reverse polarity protection? Is that common or is it necessary by design that kind of security cant be used or what?

@barevids

Жыл бұрын

No there rarely is

So are SIA-3500 amplifier protection problems always going to be user error and not manufacturer? I have one new for a bout 1 month use. Never any issues with it. I have only ever went full tilt with it a few weeks ago for my first bass comp, 1 run. My head unit and amplifier set with a oscilloscope. I planned the whole install out. Nice batteries, HO Alt, I did go for 2/0 gauge wire instead of 1/0 and used a reducer for the amp. I have a secondary fan on the amp. A SMD Volt meter which is working fine. Everything has been working fine up until this morning it goes into protect. I tried pulling bass knob wire, rca's, checking all fuses and connections tight. I have not disconnected the amplifier yet. Dealer I bought it from said lets send it in for warranty that hes had a few of these coming back. I want to disconnect everything and open up myself to see if i see any of the things you just pointed out, but do not want to void warranty. I also dont want to waste my time mailing it back if its always user error. Anys suggestions or opinions? Also I have a 2k watt 4 channel off the same distribution block and main power ground and it has no issues. I dont want to turn the vehicle back on and risk anything

@barevids

2 жыл бұрын

It's not user error. Output fets will have gone short. These are rubbish amps.

@JM-im1iu

2 жыл бұрын

@@barevids Thanks for replying. Maybe I should not get another SIA replacement if they are junk. My budget is not very high though. The regular SFB are cheaper. The SFB is on sale for less than $400 most places. Maybe I should pick one of those up before they are gone. Getting the Salt 4 is just to much for me.

@barevids

2 жыл бұрын

@@JM-im1iu just get either a Taramps Smart 3, Powerus PW3500, or something that's an original circuit. Rather than a junk sundown Chinese clone of soundigital.

@JM-im1iu

2 жыл бұрын

@@barevids Just giving you an update, I could not find a Powerus. I was going to get the Smart 5, but I ended up catching a sale on a Orion HCCA300.1DSPLX for just a few bucks more. I seen great reviews on it so I thought I would take a shot. Been watching your series and older vids. I may try and fix a few old amps I have just for fun. I got a good deal on a oscilloscope and may give it a try. Thanks for all the vids and knowledge you share.

YOU DID A DAMN GOOD JOB.

What is your thoughts on the sia amps circuitry

@barevids

10 ай бұрын

Really bad. I noticed some design flaws.

@4:29 Your holding it upside down! Turn it around so the wiring connectors match and the damage matches.

@barevids

2 жыл бұрын

remember, the board is upside-down in the heatsink.

Barevids i nees your help will this model from sundown power 2 sundown sa classic 12s 4ohm final wired to 1 ohm i have the sundown sae 2000d it took a crap i have all 0 gauge and a ds18 inf55 it was working good but this amp i have seems to be the cheapest amp model sundown offers so im upgrading to the sia but i want the 3500d sia instead of the 2500d sia just to have that extra power power will it blow the subs its 1500 rms 1 ohm

@barevids

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't recommend a Sundown Amp at all

@rt_life8478

Жыл бұрын

@@barevids i was looking at DC audio 2k for $599.99 it cost 250 more thatn the sia 3500d is DC audio good

@barevids Funny thing I just watched a down4sound Jonathan Pryce video talking about the SIa line, and it's funny Midway through just telling us about them he says something like "well of course fullbridge are not as good as Korean amps so if you want the Best buy Korean" ....🤣🤣🤣 .... I commented for him to start carrying Powerus and that I would put $$$ on any Powerus amp of similar wattage up against any of his JP series amps and run them at full tilt and see which one fails first!!!

@barevids

Жыл бұрын

Yeah sad isn't it...

A Sundown-Soundigital reverse polarity explosion.

“Bad ground” -Every car audio Facebook group

He used same colour wire...he could have atleast put tape to differentiate +and -

Customer also has same color for ground and b+ lol I bet he didn’t even know which was which!

My question is. Why isn’t these amp fused. ????

I've got a sundown I pulled from a customers vehicle dead of course Seems to be the Sundown way We put in some quality amps but anyway I opened the Sundown and it looks like in the build of this unit there was a race to see how fast it could be built Everything is crooked piss poor soldering I got it back up and running it has several broken wires pre solder joints I guess if there is anything to take away, Buy Quality and thats not Sundown

First few seconds knew it was wired in reverse

Only a incorrect polarity connection can’t cause this problem.....I knew that even before you’ve shown the other amplifier he had in first

What is the melting point of solder?

@barevids

2 жыл бұрын

200C / 390F. Some amps I come across, the aluminium clamps have melted, meaning temperatures of over 660C / 1220F. These things can cook!

@PiezPiedPy

2 жыл бұрын

lead free about 230c, leaded about 180c, google will be more accurate though ;)

I cannot believe a manufacturer is doing anything but replacing it and scrapping the trash. This seems cheap for them to deny warranty

@wilsonrawlin8547

Жыл бұрын

Sam said he is repairing the amp and the customer has to pay for the repairs.

Hi , I’ve watched plenty of your videos and a big thumbs up 👍🏻. Would you be interested in looking at my Phoenix gold Tantrum 1200.1. Many thanks.

Heat shrink is cheap ennit? Same with color e tape eh?

@Jamez84

2 жыл бұрын

Fuses are cheap too..

So how do I send mine to get

@barevids

11 ай бұрын

Live in the UK, message barevids facebook page

Was thinking that's what happened when I seen it but then u showed both amps 100% that's what happened

One of the reason i always use a red kabel for the +. I understand that some people whant to have one color so it looks like a Nice beult. But if i see the photo its not even a Nice beult. So stupid not to control your cabels.

For your to turn it away it must be bad

It actually looks like the same thing happened to his other amp

My gut says this amp is yet another victim of Facebooks team no fuse...

New Subscriber here, I was wondering if you could possibly answer a question I have about a SFB 1000.4 and a 500.4 in a different vehicle that went bad on me for a very simple reason on the same day haha.. just comment to let me know and I'll explain as short as possible the situation, please and thank you

@barevids

2 жыл бұрын

Go for it!

@iSHOK91

2 жыл бұрын

@@barevids Sorry I didn't get a notification that you replied.. BUT thanks for the reply, So what happened was the car/sound system was ON with some music playing at a Low Volume, Therefore the SFB500.4 was playing the music at the said Low Volume, All that I did was unscrew the Output screws to the 4 channels and then pulled the speaker wire one channel at a time. When I pulled the last speaker wire I heard a very slight but noticeable pop noise. Now the Amp circulates the status lights from On to Clip to Protect and will Not simply stay on, I also noticed the Amp gets warm/hot just sitting there as it goes in and out of the On/Clip/Protect Status... had a SFB1000.4 do the same thing that same day... both amps were fine before that, and I want to say I've done the same thing with amps in the past and nothing went wrong before...

@iSHOK91

2 жыл бұрын

@@barevids Anyways thanks for the reply again, sorry for my late reply, and u hope the way I explained the situation makes sense.. thank you

@iSHOK91

2 жыл бұрын

@@barevids no ideas?