When have you experienced being misunderstood because of a different communication style? Do you have any tips to help with communication? Share some of your experiences of Double Empathy so we can all can learn together!

@BorksmithandTheBeef

24 күн бұрын

You might be interested in the Ask/Guess communication style. Guess being where you do not ask for things or do things until you are sure the answer will be yes, and asking if the answer might not be yes is considered rude. Ask just...asks. It's madness to assume I know what someone else is thinking or feeling, and is exhausting to try and figure out what someone is thinking/feeling.

@DarrinDickey

24 күн бұрын

Your video made me wonder for a moment how a NeuroTypical person would handle it if they were in a predominantly NeuroDivergent world. But then I realized that they actually got a very small taste of that during the Covid pandemic. Many places had lockdowns. People were stuck at home, couldn't go in to work or large gatherings, had to keep their distance from other people outside of immediate family. They had to find new ways to communicate and they were struggling because they often lost the ability to see the faces and/or hands of the people they were talking to. So, body language and facial expressions were difficult or impossible to read. Many, many of them did NOT do well at all with this. A lot are still angry and griping about it. There were reportedly suicides and an increase in depression and other mental problems due to the isolation and communication difficulties. I wonder how they would feel if their whole life had these communication and interpersonal challenges. I'm not sure they would fare better than a lot of NeuroDivergent folks.

@robtooley4002

24 күн бұрын

I have a couple of pre-set conversations I use for small talk. Pets is one. Travel frustrations, weather things like storms, and some light family things. Nothing deep. Just a couple of funny stories. I think of them as the stories that make me seem "normal." Then I let others do most of the talking and when they stop talking, I use one of my presets. I can add a new pet story, e.g. over time. So I get by with people thinking I'm a bit of a crazy cat lady vs rude and cold. I used to do scripted animals shows with question and answer sessions and came off as friendly. When I would go behind the scenes, I was exhausted and would just be quiet until I had to go back out. A nice security guard said to me one day " peopke think you are snobby. You are all nice out there, but you don't even say hi to us behind the scenes". I felt bad, because this person really meant it in a helpful way and was genuinely a nice person. So I realized I had to be "on" whenever other people were around period. So I put together my pre-sets and that helped a lot. I learned to go to "check on animals" (e.g. the osprey or turtles) which meant I would go clean tanks or feed critters in areas where only one person really went at a time and I could just unwind a bit on my own.

@annahannabanana

24 күн бұрын

I'm often misunderstood throughout my life. whether I get diagnosed with autism or not, being INTJ seems to make me, by default, neurodivergent; so I had to learn to mask by the time I was in my teenage years. I ask a lot of questions when miscommunications arise, seeking clarity, but still get misinterpreted as judgmental, as if many of my questions are posed rhetorically or sarcastically/satirically when they are genuine inquiries. I learn to beat around the bush more, only with people who don't already understand my communication style (straightforward and efficient communication can always get misinterpreted as impatient, condescending, and haughty). my trick to tapping into empathy (my blind spot): 1. make exclamatory remarks to parrot back their emotions and make them feel heard: "wow, that's great!" or "what, that sucks" 2. ask for more information: "tell me more" 3. acknowledge their feelings and validate them so they feel understood: "how does that make you feel?" 4. call for action (I do this after I've already addressed their emotions to reregulate/calm them down, even if my weakest love language is words of affirmation; they may not be on the same page if I skip the validation steps and jump into solution mode right away): "is there anything I can do?"

@tomh5094

23 күн бұрын

One thing I saw elsewhere that helps me is to think of small talk like stimming for Allistic folks. It's functionally useless but they need to do it to feel comfortable and as a way to express feelings. I like the theory that autistic folks are much more inclined to have the following priority; information > Social > Feelings. Whereas allistic folks are basically the opposite; Feelings > Social > Information. Communication problems are because we're actually speaking in completely different languages with different meanings, principles and priorities. So, for example: When someone autistic starts with information the allistic can't cope because we've bypassed their requirements which is communicating feeling (through small talk/hugs etc). They need to feel a connection to be open to receiving information whereas an autistic person can connect with other people just over information.

Trying to jump in in a multi-person conversation is my biggest issue: either I'm too slow and someone else cuts me off, or I'm too quick and cut off someone else before they've finished. It's incredibly frustrating. I can NEVER seem to come in at the right microsecond.

@mmut8602

20 күн бұрын

Same! Same! Or people just ignore me entirely. Yay.

@Dancestar1981

19 күн бұрын

Me neither

@quali-vd3ud

18 күн бұрын

A lot of the time I end up just sitting in silence, completely ignored. It's why paradoxically I find large groups of people to be really understimulating

@arab6745

16 күн бұрын

There's also knowing when I can change the subject lol

@JennyBerrill

15 күн бұрын

Your content on double empathy is great BUT your delivery pace for me is TOO FAST. This means it is a big effort to keep up! What about autistic slow processing? Jenny, Oxford, UK.

I can't do small talk unless its about a interest subject. People think I'm rude, but I think it's polite. To me asking someone a bunch of personal questions about their family, jobs or kids is kind of rude.

@ChrisandDebby

24 күн бұрын

You're right that we all have differences in what's interesting and also what we want to talk about and share with others. Hopefully the people you communicate with regularly will get to understand that

@ivanaamidzic

24 күн бұрын

Yes, and next to being rude, it is also boring.

@MiljaHahto

24 күн бұрын

It's also a cultural issue what is consider ok to ask. Around her you just DON'T ask what others are earning, not even among NT's - in some countries it's a normal question already the first time you chat with someone.

@F00tsie

24 күн бұрын

Being disabled, for a stranger to ask me what I do for work can feel not so good. I don't find being disabled a bad thing, but I know some people can be judgmental.

@Tilly850

24 күн бұрын

Wow, yes. Small talk often seems gossipy or intrusive. I often bite my tongue wanting to ask why do you want to know that about me?

The most inane thing I ever heard from an NT was, _"If you'd just decide to not be autistic you wouldn't have those problems."_ 🤔🙄

@BorksmithandTheBeef

24 күн бұрын

Reminds me of when people tell me it's all in my head. Yes, that IS where my brain is, thanks for noticing!

@SuperGingerBickies

24 күн бұрын

If that NT decided not to be a loo-laah and take their head out of their poop hole ... That inane remark sounds like something my family would say.

@DWSP101

24 күн бұрын

lol I love that it’s real lol

@nettorak

24 күн бұрын

Imagine waiting for them to just not get something, then leaning forward to them and saying: "Have you ever tried just getting it?"

@thefuturist8864

24 күн бұрын

I’ve had people say a similar thing, but I think it’s important to remember that societies don’t teach people about neurodiversity and as such they can’t be expected to grasp it. In many ways it’s like expecting them to understand schizophrenia; while autism doesn’t belong in the same bracket as schizophrenia, most people don’t realise that it’s something that can only be understood by experts.

I've lost track of how many times - due to always being misunderstood as a kid - I've very, very carefully chosen my words to convey *precisely* what I mean... and it still gets totally misconstrued due to assumptions on the NT persons end. It's frustrating, even if it's understandable.

@free-rangeandroid833

24 күн бұрын

I can't stand when people use a word, term or phrase wrong and it takes all my might to not correct them which I learned long ago was a bad idea.

@nettorak

24 күн бұрын

And if you use too many words, just to be extra precise, they get annoyed as well, right? You start wondering how to put the essence of your thought in a short sentence - which will lead straight to the start of the problem. That's how it goes for me.

@embertheelder

24 күн бұрын

Or if precision drives one to expand one's vocabulary in order to be extraordinarily precise, then one is often misunderstood due to lack of others' comprehension of said vocabulary. One can also be accused of considering oneself 'above' the current company. And one might need to attain an additional 30 years of living in order to learn to dumb down a conversation... Uh, not that I know from experience or anything.

@psyhense

24 күн бұрын

I've found a lot of the time they don't want to understand, as they won't ask any questions to convey their own area of misunderstanding. At that point, I treat it similar and don't put anymore effort in.

@nettorak

24 күн бұрын

@@embertheelder Exactly! It often puzzles me how easily people get triggered. A child asked me why their half eaten apple gets brown. I said it oxidates due to the oxygen that's in the air around us and waited to see if the child was interested enough for follow-up questions. But the person next to me lost their sheet about how I just wanted to sound extra smart and that the apple just gets brown because it lies around. Period.

I learned, almost 30 years ago, not to try fitting in by imitating funny, popular, or sarcastic people. I had friends who could say insulting things or call people names, and everyone understood it was friendly and not serious, and they would give it back. I tried copying that behavior and I ended up insulting people when I was trying to be funny. I think I drove away a girl who was interested me at the time. Lesson taken. Don't try copying someone else's behavior. Be myself.

@SerenityForschen

24 күн бұрын

I have been there too. Trying to poke fun but then strike a nerve. I have mostly stopped doing anything like that because its backfired as a kid and adult. I also have a very long fuse where I will take a lot of teasing until I snap and say something horrible. I will give ample warning, asking them to stop. And of course the people teasing never apologise its always the person who finally gets tired of the ribbing. This is also why I do not like practical jokes. Its not funny to me.

@ardian4388

24 күн бұрын

This would often happen to me as well. I've always wondered whether there was something wrong within me or themselves...

@EastElbow

24 күн бұрын

Been there.

@LinzDubNZ

23 күн бұрын

Me too. And I know instantly after I've said something like that, that I got it wrong and just screwed my life a bit more. Sometimes I don't even say what I intended to say , some other words come from somewhere and usually they are just dumb, but other times quite insulting. It's worse when I'm pressured or stressed in some way.

@iluvyunie

22 күн бұрын

Oooh yeah. I have been there. I nearly lost a job because I worked with a group of waitresses that liked to make weird jokes all the time about their chests.

Double empathy makes so much sense. My mom once told me that I can be difficult. I could have easily said, “That makes two of us,” but of course, she assumes I’m the problem, not that it’s an equal problem with communication.

@DayLateKDM

18 күн бұрын

idk though @peacefulpossum2438, that may just be a MOTHER thing!! hahahaha.

@manuproulx2764

18 күн бұрын

​​@@DayLateKDM Not funny. Her/his mother sounds like a huge jerk.

@K.C-2049

22 сағат бұрын

@@DayLateKDM big time. our moms like to take credit for all the good things in us, but when we fuck up it's like "where did THIS come from?!" and this is for neurotypicals too I reckon lol

One helpful trick I've learned, when eye contact gets to be a little too much: I turn my head slightly to the right, and say "I'm turning my *good* ear toward you" -- that way, they know I'm still paying attention. (This has the benefit of being true: I really do have mild hearing loss on one side.)

I was always deemed “too emotional “ as a kid and when I would have probably a meltdown I would be sent to timeout and would be told I could come back when I had my “happy face” on, then would get bombarded with a huge fake smile on my dads face. It was obviously fake so I felt patronized. I angered my stepmom so much as a kid by not looking at her directly. One time she was angry and talking to me and I was looking forward (we were side by side) and she yelled “look at me when you talk.” She turned her head forward and said “do you like it better when I talk to you like this? Does it feel like I’m listening?” I told her yes and she thought I was lying and proceeded to become more angry.

@vickiamundsen2933

17 күн бұрын

yep. Intense feelings were not allowed in my family.

When I was a kid, knowing that people were waiting for me and getting impatient was a terrible but common feeling. I have gone through life planning ways to be as efficient as possible so no one has to wait for me like a ticking time bomb as I’m trying to hurry. Knowing what I will order before I get to the restaurant. Reading about a movie before seeing it. Practicing the drive to a place before I plan to go there.

@EastElbow

24 күн бұрын

Same. I talk fast for this reason too.

@bes03c

23 күн бұрын

I also hate waiting for other people. Feeling their impatience is excruciating. When I am forced to make others wait because of factors outside my control, I find it extrenely distressing.

@bes03c

23 күн бұрын

It wasn't until I was diagnosed that I learned that most NTs do not mentally script their orders at restaurants before the server comes. I live outside my home country and have to speak in the local language. That makes me script even more.

@Art_by_Nicole

23 күн бұрын

I can relate to that and it’s really tiring

@gzoechi

23 күн бұрын

They only talk in prepared statements, so it's no surprise they don't need time for a response. Nobody cares if the response provides any insight. I guess they just evaluate how close the response is to what they had said.

There have been a few times at work where I disclosed being autistic when major communication issue occurred. The issue that most often seemed to come up was when people said I was not kind yet I never would call people names or yell at them or talk about them behind their backs. Being blunt and honest I think were the traits that got me viewed by some as mean. However when I would tell them that I'm not being mean I'm just saying exactly what I mean and there is no hidden meaning behind my words I was not believed or told that because I was autistic it was my responsibility to change. This was very insulting because I had already been doing so much to be able to fit into these world easier. After learning cognitive behavioral therapy, I think what is going on a lot of the time seems to be emotional reasoning. Since the communication isn't 'normal' to them it makes them feel awkward and when that happens they don't seem to understand its because they are meeting a communication issue instead they put those feelings onto the autistic and assume: I feel weird it must be because you are bad. I think we need to teach emotional intelligence to our children. Because the blame shifting onto the 'other' (in thee cases the autistic) isn't a healthy method and causes more issues down the line, it teaches people that the minority is the issue and it is their responsibility to fall in line and become like the 'norm' for the area. Instead of promoting inclusion. Teaching children to first regulate their own emotions when nothing is actually being done to them outside of them feeling uncomfortable. Its just teaching children that things aren't their fault and that they don't have much control but somehow need to try and force it from other by telling them how to behave. Really shows low frustration tolerance. Great video!

@nettorak

23 күн бұрын

I think one of the reasons people struggle with honesty so much is that their parents, when they were a child, couldn't stand when they were crying. I witness this a lot. A child stumbles, cries, the parents proceed with blaming the path, for tripping the child and the more furious the path is blamed, the sooner the child stops crying. Is this madness? This is how madness looks, right? So the child learns that if something happens that's unpleasant, someone has to be blamed. I think the child should instead be told stuff like "Accidents happen. You want a hug? It passes eventually dear, come here." What has helped me were books on non-violent communication. Though I have to reread them often, because I always fall back to default mode - honesty. People do not like that. But I noticed that whenever people face a dire situation, they often search for me. One time, I even got a call in the middle of the night because a colleague had a situation and they didn't call an ambulance - they called me. That's how safe and reliable I feel.

@eh1702

10 күн бұрын

“Teaching children to first regulate their own emotions when nothing is actually being done to them outside of them feeling uncomfortable.” I think you have put your finger on a reason why a lot of kids bully whoever is different.

NTs rarely understand how frustrating and difficult it is being autistic because so much of our mental processing is spent trying to make sure that despite all the excess mental processing that's going on for us, we don't let it slip out of our headspace and into their perceptions of us. It's like feeling that need to vomit all the time, but just constantly reminding yourself, "Now's not a good time." It's a constant struggle at my job, I work a lot, 6 days a week, and while I sometimes need to remind my superiors that I am autistic, it doesn't mean anything to them, it's just a descriptive adjective to them, and I do not have the time, and they don't have the patience to afford me the luxury of explaining further. There's nothing that makes me recoil more than when I'm deep into burnout as my workday comes to a close and everyone keeps asking me if I'm okay. By that time my masking efforts are in vain, I can't process speech fast enough, I can barely vocalize my thoughts to my team, and my thoughts become increasingly disjointed.

@mothdust1634

19 күн бұрын

My coworkers are understanding because I bitch about being tired all the time and not getting enough sleep. "Are you okay?" "Yeah I slept like 2 hours last night and I wanna die, but I'm here" then they laugh. I smile when I say such things so it eases the complaint. My formula is: They ask about me -> I complain with a smile -> they laugh and offer sympathies and leave me alone.

@vickiamundsen2933

17 күн бұрын

i was at a party I could not escape recently. About two hours in i was SO done. I sat down on a chair in a nice quiet location where I could just watch the goings-on. A friend asked if I felt all right. I said, "I'm just really overstimulated right now." And she got it.

1:09 That is exactly the look that has me look away. It is like someone is saying to me, "Hey let me shove this USB port into your eyeball so we can connect".

@dreamscape405

24 күн бұрын

😅 EXACTLY 😅

@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw

24 күн бұрын

Honestly, it doesn't really bother me if people want to look me in the eye when we talk, but I so often find myself talking with people when there are a lot of other people around, and I just find it easier to not do the eye contact thing because otherwise I'm going to end up hearing someone else too clearly by having my ears pointed away from the person close to me and it's going to distract me and make it hard to hear them. That's why sometimes what I'll do is try to get closer to people but that can make them very uncomfortable sometimes. I'm not doing it to be creepy, it's just a way to maintain eye contact... so it's ironic that eye contact I don't have a problem with, it's the distraction of a crowd that bothers me.

@Jae-by3hf

23 күн бұрын

😂 LOL! This is exactly what it is!

@Art_by_Nicole

23 күн бұрын

Haha! I laughed out loud for that analogy 😂 Love that

@Keyan9

20 күн бұрын

I literally had to look away. So uncomfortable.

Well put. It reminds me, I've lost count of the times I've said something that seemed totally clear to me and people have stared at me like I'm an alien, then 30 seconds later someone else has said pretty much the same thing and they've all nodded and smiled and run with the suggestion.

@mmut8602

20 күн бұрын

Omigosh! This has happened to me! Truly thought I was in the Twilight Zone!

When I get anxious because I might be failing at socializing, I remind myself that comunication depends on TWO parts, not just me. I don't usually talk to people, because I always feel like I'm missing all the context and it's frustrating. But one time this guy started talking to me on the street. He had an "Odd" personality, body language and speech pattern which people around us noticed. Once I decided to get chitchatting it was clear we easily understood each other, there was none of that awkwardness or uncertainty. I was left thinking "is this how normal people feel?"

The criminal justice part is SO real. I sat for jury selection a couple months back, and they had an introductory film on implicit bias. It was actually pretty interesting, but all they focused on was protected classes. I sat there and thought about all the other types of implicit bias. Then selection began, and the prosecutor kept asking how, in a disputed situation, people could tell who was telling the truth and who was lying. A former sheriff in the pool answered confidently that he was able to do identify lying by things like not making eye contact or appearing nervous. This was a Friday, and I had to report back on Monday. Over the weekend, a family member who has problems with panic attacks was pulled over. They explained this to the police, who paid no attention, and wrote up several things that were a result of the shutdown as other things. In the US at least, police culture is often focused on being tough and in control at all times, and there is often little understanding of either neurodivergence or mental health problems. (That’s not true across the board. I actually had an encounter with a state police officer when I was in a poor state, a few years ago, and she was excellent.)

I’m 69 and found out that I might be on the autism spectrum a couple years back. I’ve taken many assessments and my scores are always extremely high. The last one I took was 42 questions and I scored a 41. I believe a score of 13 or 14 pointed to autism. I struggle with every aspect of social interaction, especially verbal. I know that I’m often seen as rude or insensitive, but the opposite is true, I’m just autistic. It’s been a roller coaster ride since I first understood and I’ll likely never get a formal diagnosis, but understanding myself is what’s important. ✌🏼

I find it it easier to listen when not making eye contact as making eye contact makes me think about the eye contact instead of paying attention to what the person is saying

@redgit9905

20 күн бұрын

Indeed

Also, possibly relevant story: My (now ex) husband was not a native English speaker, and I lost count of how many times he misunderstood something I said because of that. But without fail, he'd instantly jump to the worst possible interpretation. He never gave me the benefit of the doubt, never paused when offended to ask himself, 'Have I misunderstood?' Nope. Bad faith every time. And that's exactly what I see in a lot of interactions between autistic and non-autistic people. NTs will almost unfailingly jump to the worst interpretations of autistic behavior and communication, even when they know the person they are talking to is autistic, when the behavior in question is usually neutral as worst, benign, and (from personal experience) often well intended. It leaves me scratching my head, like...of all the way you could have taken that, you *chose* to take it the worst way? Why? This is exhausting for all involved. You know I'm not a hateful person. If I say or do something that offends you, you should know it was either unintentional or that *you* have misunderstood. Because you know me, you should already know the negative interpretation is the wrong one. Like...work with me here, people. XD Walking on eggshells is so exhausting, just give me the benefit of the doubt.

I can look people in the eye for limited periods, but it's always a struggle. My son and I hand out by doing errands together, because we can talk better while my eyes are on the road.

@JoMcD21

19 күн бұрын

I'm glad you've found a way to work around things. Sharing your methods can definitely help out other people too! Thank you!

I am so glad I work for myself now. I had an interview once where one of the guys just kept getting angrier and angrier. And after I answered a question, he called me arrogant. Just flat-out said it. I had no idea I was autistic at the time, so even though I think I may know what was happening now, it was so friggin' confusing back then. I have been called "arrogant" my whole life just for being honest about things and despite not really vibing with what that emotion is supposed to feel like. But BOY do people not like being told the truth while believing in their heart-of-hearts that that's ALL they want. I don't get it...

@adrs1380

22 күн бұрын

That happens toe all the time. I get frustrated when people don't understand me, and I have to repeat the same thing three different ways and then they called me arrogant and rude. Mostly, nowadays, I just think "whatever" to myself and walk away, and don't try to explain anymore. And get called arrogant and rude for that too. I just hate talking to people.

@susanrobertson984

21 күн бұрын

M’y experience as a neurotypical is that some folks on the spectrum decide what is true and then refuse to acknowledge that they may not have all the facts and given they miss all the non-verbal cues they missed half the information presented. That is really frustrating for me.

@rikorobinson

21 күн бұрын

@@susanrobertson984 Then you know how we feel 100% of the time.

@susanrobertson984

21 күн бұрын

@@rikorobinson fair enough

@brunoborce8951

15 күн бұрын

From a psychological perspective, the text highlights a common issue for individuals with autism: misunderstanding social norms and communication. The label of “arrogance” likely stems from the interviewee’s directness, which may clash with typical social expectations. Autistic individuals often struggle to navigate these subtle social cues, leading to such misunderstandings. It's crucial to differentiate between autism and personality disorders like narcissism. Narcissistic traits involve a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy, while autism primarily affects social communication. Consulting a mental health professional can help clarify if other issues are present. Improving social skills and adapting communication to different contexts can help mitigate conflicts and misunderstandings. Awareness and adjustment in how truths are communicated can enhance interactions and reduce perceived arrogance.

I once worked with a young man, you needed to wait at least 5 seconds for an answer because it just took him longer to process. The problem would only come if people would pile on questions and concerns while he was processing. Giving him those 5 seconds to process and not caring about eye contact was all it took to have effective communication. I would assume that the issue is with the world for not accepting that some people take longer to process, that it doesn't indicate a lack of understanding or attention.

@wizardsuth

12 күн бұрын

Part of that time was probably spent figuring out how to express his ideas so that you would understand him.

I'm always looking around or focusing out the window when I'm discussing things with my wife. She sometimes looks around and says, "What is it?" as if I noticed something important happening outside. I have to explain I'm just thinking and I can't stare her in the face when I'm trying to think through something. It's only recently I started realizing why this is. It's tough to pull myself back from thinking to refocus on the person or explain why I'm looking away, and I often lose my train of thought. And around and around we go!

@schwingle17

22 күн бұрын

What is so much more interesting than our conversation?

@mmut8602

20 күн бұрын

I am not diagnosed with anything, but know I have my own quirks. Ironically, my NT husband will do this quite often as a "squirrel!" tactic in uncomfortable conversations so I understand why it can be distracting/unsettling to the one who is talking as well.

@Dancestar1981

18 күн бұрын

@@free-rangeandroid833 my mum would chide me and tell me to stop looking at myself in the shop windows and it’s not I’m looking in a different direction to mentally process information

@Dancestar1981

18 күн бұрын

@@free-rangeandroid833 also was asking a police officer questions one day to try and find out which roads were blocked in a flood so that I could detour around it and got accused of arguing and it’s no I’m asking you to clarify which roads aren’t blocked and they wouldn’t give me a straight answer

Thank you for including the criminal justice system topic. My youngest brother has severe autism and one time ran outside onto his backyard, which doubles as a soccer field sometimes, during a game. So some parents called the cops on him, but luckily the officer that attended the call was trained on ND and didn't try touching my brother, which would most likely have resulted in him lashing out physically, and was able to guide my brother off the field. It ended well thank goodness. That all transpired while my stepdad, my brother's full-time carer, was in the shower for just 15 minutes. Officers and judges being trained on ND can save lives

I GOT MY OFFICIAL LETTER OF DIAGNOSIS YESTERDAY WOOHOO! 🙌 it feels life changing for me 😊 Your videos have made a huge difference for me, thank you so much x

@EastElbow

24 күн бұрын

I'm still waiting for my results. They are taking forever.

@nickpenney4953

23 күн бұрын

Congratulations... Most likely plenty of epiphanies ahead. I was diagnosed last year, age 56, and got to re-examine my life through the 'I was autistic, not stupid/useless' lens.

@nickpenney4953

23 күн бұрын

Where are you from in NZ? I'm a Wanganui boy, now living in London.

@NZKiwi87

23 күн бұрын

@@nickpenney4953 this is it exactly! I feel I’ve shouldered a lot of internal blame over the years for how I am, as opposed to being accepted and accommodated (which I’ve taught myself to try to do for others) and now begins the process of undoing that damaging framework. Congrats to you too - how empowering for each of us in our third age to have this monumental shift 🙌

@EastElbow

23 күн бұрын

@@NZKiwi87 I'm trying to rework that as well. The right people will stay.

You're wife is so cool to work as hard as she does to bridge the gap. "I'm not sure what you mean," is a common phrase from me when someone asks a question and my mind perceives it with uncertainty or too many potential meanings for me to guess at the correct connotation. Great video!

@LinzDubNZ

23 күн бұрын

I always find people from other cultures much less stressful to communicate with. I know a few people with ASD tendencies and several have non-Caucasian partners, as do I. I think I understand why this is now - that in-built strange skill with interactions that NTs seem to have, I think is not necessary when I'm talking to, say, an Asian person.

Im done with normal, they can have it. It’s funny when you look at it that we run on a normal persons operating system. Look at the state of society and the world. They are doing a great job 😅

How serendipitous you posted this today, because today I learned from someone else what the ineptly named "Double Empathy Problem" meant, and now you have refined the concept for me to something I have recognised for about six years now, since about six months after I got my diagnosis. The thing I recognised is I am like a foreigner to my own countrymen, and I suffer all the normal cultural shocks and barriers trying to get along with them, in addition to being constantly mistaken for a knowledgeable local, and then judged for not acting like it. I have thought of myself as belonging to a culture of one for a few years, now. I went as far as adopting an alternative to the traditional western handshake which I have never liked since I neither like touching nor being touched by strangers. My status of being anonymously foreign to my peers wasn't an issue when I met actual foreigners like exchange students and emigrants. As a student of several foreign languages I was naturally attracted to the idea of practising my languages, but I must also admit I was attracted to the kind of people who didn't treat me like a weirdo. This has been a steady pattern in my life since at least High School, and I'm 61. So to sum up, most of my friends, and all of my Best friends, save the one I married, were foreign, Black, or queer. I figure these people didn't have the same expectations of me that other white Americans did.

I dont remember my parents directing me on how to be nice. Instead, they had fancy dinner parties with well educated adults and beamed with pride if i was able to participate intelligently in conversations. i did spend a LOT of time in school trying to figure out how not to get teased or dumped by friends.

Thank you sooooo much for verbalizing this! I remember Mom and Dad always mocking me: “Oh, Anne’s mad at the world today” when I wasn’t angry or upset at all - until they made fun of me. I was always deeply uncomfortable with my lack of awareness of how I was “keeping my face.” I would seek out reflective surfaces constantly to check “if my face was right.” I constantly struggled with trying to find the right balance of communication, eye contact and honesty for any given conversation. It’s still painful, and I’m on the extreme end of the “loner” spectrum now at 62.

I'm autistic and my two best friends are ADD and AUDHD. (We weirdly enough knew each other long before we got diagnosed) All three of us were diagnosed as adults and are still learning how to be neurodivergent in a neurotypical world in a way that does not hurt so much. Once a month we meet up, I make food with regards to likes and dislikes or other issues. There is a huge box of fidget toys in the middle of the table and we just talk about our special interests for hours or parallel play with the fidgets or our phones. It is so unbelievably relaxing. No small talk, no polite rules just people who understand.

@TheFranchiseCA

23 күн бұрын

You became friends before being diagnosed because you were comfortable with people who behaved and spoke in ways you understood.

@trwn87

18 күн бұрын

This is so cool! I wish I had such an experience too!

@Catlily5

9 күн бұрын

Same, I met most of my friends before diagnosis.

The way I have dealt with being late diagnosed is by ending up thinking that no one means what they say. And that is very problematic because I don't believe anyone and if someone says something nice to me, I'm immediately "well, they're just saying that to be nice, it's not true". It's even more a problem when I was in a relationship with this girl who gave me a clear boundary and in my head I was like "she doesn't mean it" (even though I know the importance of boundaries!). Thankfully I didn't do the thing she didn't want, but not because of her boundary, because I was shy. That's when I realized how dangerous my way of thinking was. I've been trying to change it, but it's not easy.

When there has been a communication break down with my other half, I find it best to wait and once things are calm, explain to the other person what my experience of the failed interaction was. Commonly my other half thinks they have vocalised a message but only thought it, then gets frustrated that I don't do what they expected. Not that I should always have to do what they expected. On my side, I appreciate it when the other person asks if it's ok for us to do something at a particular time. I may well have made other plans 😊

Communication: "But what do you say? We figure it out together." I love this.

I ABSOLUTELY agreed and was only a minute in. It's always OUR fault and often we are being super clear in OUR way of communicating. I often think that I am not at a disadvantage at all until I am required to act or talk in an NT way. When I am on my own, or with my friends we are fine. Happily weird together.

I hated small talk until I figured out it's all the same formula. Greeting+ asking about emotional state "Hi *name if known* how are you today?" Etc Comment on weather (cultural practice in UK) Ask about their planned activities/destination "Going anywhere interesting/up to anything fun today?" Variations on this for each meeting and you gradually gain information to add to formula, which increases in complexity until it peaks where you no longer have to put as much effort in, because they feel comfortable that you 'know each other well'. At this point minimal conversational prompting is needed and they'll ramble on for ages while you switch off. I always got told I was a good listener and great at keeping secrets, when I was just deploying the formula and eventually zoning out.

I am an older autistic person (59F) who is newly diagnosed. This means that I have had decades of time and experience during which I have become allowed a master of masking. It's exhausting but it's what I needed to do to get along. I still often have a problem communicating though, because I was taught, possibly erroneously, that one tool of good communication is reflecting. By this, I mean saying to someone, "Let me make sure I understand what you are saying..." Then I try to repeat back what the other person has said in the way it makes sense to me. This tool does work often, but it can get in the way if the person I'm talking to, for whatever reason, is naturally defensive. They will sometimes take my need to reflect as me trying to say they are inferior because they can't even get a simple point across or that I am arguing with them. This is incredibly frustrating. When I am the one initiating the interaction, because I fear being misunderstood and being led down a rabbit hole of trying to repair a miscommunication, I will often make an effort to include all the facts I need the other person to know and why they need to know them, really quickly. It will make perfect sense to me, and often does to the other person, but sometimes, the person I'm talking to will get lost in the overdose of facts coming at them, so down the rabbit hole we go anyway. A good example of this is when I have to call a customer service center. Often this will happen: I will try to get my script straight before I place the call and run it when I finally get to an agent. Sometimes, I get distracted by something in the process and my script disappears. Even if it doesn't, it will often be confusing for some reason anyway, so down the rabbit hole. Through no wish of my own, I will often get passed along to a different agent. This is usually finally productive because the former interaction has given me clues to a script, which is usually effective in solving my problem. Sometimes, the original agent will be so confused about what I want that they will send me to the wrong department. Rabbit hole again. One of the ways I find can work to avoid confusion is reflecting what I am hearing. This can work sometimes. Anyway, personal interactions can be confusing and frustrating sometimes. Even years and years of practicing good communication skills can often make things worse before they get better.

@JMA864

24 күн бұрын

Oh boy, same here. I’ve been working really hard lately to edit as I’m speaking-“what is the minimum they need to know to get my point.” Sometimes I even say out loud, “Give me a second, I’m trying to figure out how to tell this efficiently.” Otherwise I talk in circles because the ENTIRE context has equal weight in my brain. Really the only people I can talk comfortably with are other people who think/talk in big loops. Also just learned (after decades) from various channels that some find reflecting with a story of one’s own quite rude. Sigh.

@I_am_Irisarc

24 күн бұрын

@@JMA864 Oh, no. By reflecting, I meant listening to what the other person says, then saying it back to them to see if I understood it correctly. I hate that coming back with a story of your own business. My mother used to do that. We all just kind of rolled out eyes when she did that to people. It is rude. It sounds like you are trying to one-up them or something. Mom really was doing that though. Too competitive. In casual conversation, I always have to think about how I respond to someone else's story. Is my related story equal but different, or one-upping, or not interesting, or actually not really related at all. I get it that every part of what you're saying has exactly the same weight. How much is enough or too much?

@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw

24 күн бұрын

I find myself doing the reflecting thing without thinking about it sometimes because I may notice the person I'm talking to might have a problem with communication, it happens fairly often, and I think it happens with autists or non-autists alike. Essentially my goal in reflecting is to confirm what they truly mean because for whatever reason, they didn't say it. I usually open up my interpretation of their unspoken thought as "do you think..." or "do you mean..." and I don't always get it right, after all I'm not a mind reader, but sometimes I get it right.

@JMA864

24 күн бұрын

@@I_am_Irisarc Thanks for clarifying. LOL I thought that kind of reflecting is exactly what “they” say to do-“what I hear you saying is…” But that may be only when there’s some sort of disagreement that one is trying to resolve peacefully? Re. returning story with story, I never mean it to one-up (at least not consciously) but of course some people do. For me, I’ve realized that I’m trying to demonstrate that I have some basis for understanding what the person is going through, like I have to give my bona fides. My extremely awkward attempt to show empathy. Like, I wouldn’t fully trust anyone who says “oh I know how you feel,” when I don’t know if they’ve actually experienced anything similar!

@victoryamartin9773

10 күн бұрын

​@@JMA864People like it better when you describe the feeling to them to demonstrate your understanding. They don't care as much for your stories of similar experiences, because those don't guarantee you felt the same as they do or did.

Damn. I've never felt more validated in my life.

@jadeknowsbest1674

5 күн бұрын

For real tho. I watched this at work and kinda wanted to cry at the end when he was saying it's not our fault when people don't understand you.

So, I’m autistic and I dated a man that is autistic. (We both are clinically diagnosed ) I feel I’m more high masking and more socialized based on my gender. We misunderstood each other all the time. I was more compassionate to understanding and learning when I didn’t understand but he also misunderstood me often. I thought we’d have great communication but when we revisited the situation I would realize that we both missed what the other meant. For context I’m Audhd and he only has the ASD diagnosis. He always voiced when he didn’t understand. At times we both thought we understood each other only to realize that we didn’t. I feel women are naturally more socialized so at times I struggled with understanding that he really didn’t get certain norms but his socialization didn’t look like mine. I was also more emotionally invested and feeling which seemed to jumble up things more. My alexithymia presents more as an emotional delay while his was presented as absent of emotions. I’m definitely more on the highly sensitive part of the spectrum. The miscommunication became exhausting on top of the overly bluntness when I have the ability to consider others feelings. That’s my oversharing rant for the day! 😂

@jimwilliams3816

24 күн бұрын

I’m a fellow oversharer, and I really appreciate what you posted. This is something I keep debating, because I have an AuDHD diagnosis, and my wife doesn’t, but we both acknowledge that she has traits. I think we’ve gotten on well because of our similarities, but certain things have always been issues, and have gotten worse - and much of it is the same as you’d expect in an autistic-allistic relationship. Though certain things fit my being ADHD and her being ASD - I’m the compulsive talker that wears her (and everyone else) out. We have a lot in common with you two I’d say. I probably thought of her as being alexithymic before I knew what it was or realized I was too. And our individual presentations break down much like yours. I’m terrible at emotional connection, and that’s hard on her. I’ve seen it said that men’s way of dealing with trauma and depression tends toward avoidance, and that is very much me, and women tend more toward social support to cope, which is more her, although neither of us are any good at making and keeping friends. Socializing has always been hard for her, but she has learned scripts that I either can’t or won’t learn. In the end, I can easily see her as a high masking autistic woman, and me as a PITA male Aspie, but when she feels hurt by me being the way I am, I think about the double empathy studies, and wonder...mostly I think “really? Autistic people always get along? Allistic people don’t always get along.” Feels like it stretches credibility to suppose that autism is enough to consistently bridge the communication gap that often exists between men and women. Still I wonder, so your story offers me validation. My oversharing reply! :)

@amy-avnas

16 күн бұрын

I am highly sensitive as well. I need to date/marry someone who has the same level of sensitivity as me, but also emotional intelligence as well... I have just recently come to terms with the fact that is incredibly unlikely to happen as a hetrosexual woman. So I guess I will remain single till I die😅.

@christalintentions

16 күн бұрын

@@jimwilliams3816 Thank you for your transparency and for giving me some validation as well! You said something that I had to come to terms with. “Can’t or won't learn.” I finally had to realize that he had no desire to, and I was doing too much work accommodating, understanding, and excusing a lot of things under the guise of autism because I wanted to be with him. He also was initially diagnosed with Aspergers. The silver lining is, it’s how I got my diagnosis!😅 He became my special interest, and I went down all the rabbit holes trying to figure him out and understand him because he was constantly hurting my feelings and saying it was never his intention. I do believe that he was honest about that however he was making very little effort to mitigate that while I was working extra hard not to be affected and dismissing my own feelings. Anyway, Eventually, I came across how autism presents in women and 🤯! He initially thought I was empathic and a HSP, but come to find out ASD and ADHD. I promise I meant to be short! 😂

@christalintentions

16 күн бұрын

@@amy-avnas I wish I could be the one who says that's not the case, but I honestly feel the same way. A glimmer is now knowing that I'm autistic; I'm willing to bet that the men I've been in a serious relationship with are most likely on the spectrum. It makes so much sense now, but the problem is that when you get to be my age (40’s) and later diagnosed, I’ve learned/ been taught how to socialize. Men and women are socialized differently, so even though I can recognize that men in my previous relationships were most likely autistic, too, we still struggled. That’s not a glimmer of hope, after all.🥴 At least now, we are better equipped with information and awareness.

@susanhunter9196

12 күн бұрын

​@@amy-avnasthere is at least one neurodivergent dating/friend app. It's called Haiki. I haven't tried it. I've been married 3 times and, just recently diagnosed autistic/adhd at 62.😑

Expecting non-autistics to Not jump to judgement of autistic people is a lost cause, the NTs live to judge, they would feel like they were strangling if they even tried to not instantly pass judgement on someone.

@fleeb

23 күн бұрын

The majority always wins. You may fight it, or work with it. If you remain true to yourself, either approach you take can help others come to another judgement if you aren't a jerk.

@scottfw7169

23 күн бұрын

@@fleeb But the majority winners are not always right merely because they are the majority and they won, unless, of course, might really does make and define what is actually ultimately right. The majority can be wrong.

@fleeb

23 күн бұрын

@@scottfw7169 I mentioned nothing about correctness. Only that they always win. Life isn't fair. You can fight, or you can work with it. You decide upon the life you want, and how to live it, within the constraints put upon you. You can scream 'unfair' while you lose another job. You can scream 'unfair' while you hunger. You can also mutter 'unfair' while wining the game, perhaps later changing the game for others if you like. (But, I suppose, as a GenX, and therefore a minority, I am accustomed to nobody listening to me, and to hearing 'unfair' while forging my own way regardless of how the deck is stacked against me).

@rsh793

22 күн бұрын

@@fleeb indeed - it might not be "right" but we have to learn what battles are going to work for us to fight - and some are just not worth it. Work on picking a life that means you can be what you want to be - that's far more worthwhile than wasting energy on trying to fight a system that's not ever going to let you win! LOL also Gen X though - so hey - maybe we're just a whole different way of being that doesn't care!

@AKayfabe

22 күн бұрын

sure, but neurotypical people are also just being what they naturally are too. And they can’t help not understanding unless they want to really try to. They don’t always win, it’s not even a contest. I have friends who accept that I’m going to be a little off socially, but they just go with it

This is so neat, I live in Finland and have noticed the direct, quiet, no-bs and non forceful autistic way of communication is more or less the norm here. I can't work due to severe sensory problems and other comorbid things and executive dysfunction but... I'm generally not seen as "weird" until I either start stimming or get "too excited" about something (typewriters, birds, art stuff etc). I *am* even a bit more quiet than the average finn but so far this is definitely the most autism friendly place I've ever been in. I'm super interested in the ways autism and culture mesh - or don’t. Honestly listening to my online friends a lot of the US sounds terrifying to me with the different social rules and also how (no offense) damn loud people there tend to be. The speech volume of all to my knowledge neurotypical americans I've met is about on par with drunk finnish people. I absolutely adore you people but damn your lungs are built different 😂 Public places here are very quiet compared to every other twentysomething countries I've been to as well because it's considered impolite to "make a scene"... which is where my overexcitement and special interests being seen as SUPER weird comes in. I wonder if these differences contribute to how many people get diagnosed, and whether the criteria should somewhat be adjusted according to culture. Thanks for the awesome video! 😊

@ChrisandDebby

21 күн бұрын

Just left Finland yesterday!! I was so sad to leave. Absolutely loved it. The people were amazing. Estonia was also amazing. You are spot on about the volume and style of talking. It was so refreshing. I want to move to Finland or Estonia.

@moxmox8058

15 күн бұрын

lol you are right. I am always called ‘quiet’ here in the US but abroad I notice looks for being loud when with other Americans…..

@catfancier270

13 күн бұрын

Not everyone in the US is super loud. I live near Seattle and the people I know speak fairly quietly. People in my neighborhood are of Swedish and/or Korean ancestry, so that might have something to do with it. And Seattleites are known for keeping to themselves more.

I find it difficult when I am told to communicate "more clearly", when I already use my language (and body language) way more precisely than most people around me. The potato example you gave is for me a good example of this. I think you were clear, precise and unambiguous. I can understand how your wife misunderstood, but even still in my opinion, the interpretation of you pointing directly contradicts other things you said. I would usually want someone to notice the discrepancy and ask about it. But NTs usually don't notice such small contradictions.

What annoys me in communicating with allistic people is, that they often get stuck on disagreements and then blame their negative emotions on me entirely. Like when I ask "Do you want to X" and they say "no" and I say "Okay" and move on, which means I might leave (because I still want to do X). But they feel the need to explain to me in great detail how they just don't want to. I say "Okay" again and try to leave. I think they take me saying "Okay" quickly as sulking. I swear, I'm not mad. Why should we have a conversation about something we already established, why can't we move on and save energy + oxygen. We can do something we both enjoy again some time later. How am I supposed to react to them not liking what I suggested if not with acceptance?

@foljs5858

24 күн бұрын

Well, saying ok quickly does sound like sulking. That's one of the things a sulking NT would do in that situation. "How am I supposed to react to them not liking what I suggested if not with acceptance?" suggest something alternative? Make it seem like you don't only hang out with them hoping to do the X thing? Ask them what they'd rather do? Hang out even if you don't do X?

@nettorak

24 күн бұрын

@@foljs5858 Thank you for taking the time to answer and think about what I wrote. My Problem is: 1) If _I_ wanted to do something else than X at that moment: yes, I'd ask. 2) If _they_ really wanted to spend time with me, they can suggest something else (but I have to be allowed to say "No" as well!) But if I _want_ to do X, I do it by myself. I don't want to bend my whole existence around making other people feel good all of the time and not do X just for them. It might make us both less happy in the end. It's okay to say no to me. They don't mean less to me for doing so per se. But I will try to alter my voice more, so "Okay" changes in how it sounds. Maybe I'll wait another extra 1.5 seconds before reacting (1.5 seconds in ADHD is a lot). Maybe a light-hearted "Oh well" sounds better?

@nettorak

24 күн бұрын

@@foljs5858 By the way, I always assure the people I'm not sulking or mad. That everything is okay between us when I'm quick to say "Okay". It just never sinks in.

@mothdust1634

19 күн бұрын

@@nettorak I make a high-pitched "okay" with a smile, and I say "maybe next time" and move on. It seems to get the message across. Smiling tends to soften the blow for a lot of things. At least in the US its like required, but it has helped me a little in europe too. I've been told by my european family that I look stupid when I smile all the time, but at least I'm not accused of being bitch anymore.

If I’m forced to go into a cafe etc there are a couple of things I have found helpful: 1) many places now have their menu online. So if I know I am likely to have to go I will look it up ahead of time and work out what I might want, I always try and pick a few things because the thing I picked always seems to run out. And even if they have changed their menu in the meantime, I will at least be used to reading their house style and have a better chance of making a quick decision when I’m there. Most places won’t change everything in one go. 2) if you do have to ask for a menu change try and be strategic, ask for something that is realistic. Lots of food will come in prepared, they can’t take ingredients out - say onion in the base sauce . But things that are assembled on site they can just leave off the tomato for example. So I save myself hassle by not asking for impossible things when I do have to ask. 3) if I need to I will politely say ‘It takes me a little while to read, can you give me a minute while you serve someone else/get on with something else’ and step out of the way. Then the next step is for them. They would be quite rude to do anything else at that point. You as the customer have released them from the necessity of hovering over you while you dither about. As long as you do make a decision fairly quickly and don’t get distracted this should be a good approach. Maybe one of those might help someone a little feel more confident. I really hate dealing with ordering food, first I have to order it, then I have to eat it, then I have to pretend I liked it, then I have to pay hard earned money for it. All the time while making small talk and trying not to offend someone. It’s a nightmare. I absolutely agree with you that the burden of successfully communicating doesn’t lie solely on autistic people. Those who claim to be so good at it really need to step up and stop being so lazy.

My Yu’pik mother in law couldn’t understand why I freaked out whenever she’d show up at our house unannounced whenever she wanted. I couldn’t understand why she thought that was okay. Once she realized that I was autistic and I realized that in her upbringing in Alaska in the 1940s, you welcomed everyone anytime when they’re able to get out and visit, we got along much better😊 It took a lot of miscommunication before we we achieved more clear communication, like you illustrated in the potatoes-oil-skillet example! Potato, po-tah-toe, we finally got each other ❤️ She learned to give us a heads up call, and when she forgot, I just stayed in the bedroom guilt-free unless I had the bandwidth to socialize.

@twentynineteen4687

23 күн бұрын

❤

I get tired every day. It’s mostly processing so much and trying not to make other people feel awkward. But let’s keep trying, everyone, because autism is becoming more well known. Maybe one day we can all communicate more graciously and considerately (sorry bad grammar). Thank you for this video.

Thank you for this explanation! My boyfriend and I have a terrible time communicating, he thinks I'm stupid, I think he never answers a question directly. He also makes up answers when he doesn't know the real answer, making me feel even more untrusting of him. Not a great combination, but this really explains some of that! I still haven't reached my autism/ADHD screening appointment date, but I'm hoping to get some answers about quite a lot of communication issues, people are so confusing to me!

@DianeRaines-mo9vx

22 күн бұрын

Please break up.

@vermiform

18 күн бұрын

​@@DianeRaines-mo9vxhow rude

ohhhh man. 11:39” being awkward might not always be the autistic person. have you considered that your attempts at forcing small talk might be awkward to an autistic person?” oh my god. this. this this this this small talk is so hard and awkward and i’m simply not capable of it. i always feel horrible when i’m just in silence with someone and they’re expecting me to say something. it’s horrible.

This is easily one of the very best explanations for communication issues I've experienced throughout my life. I recognized the double empathy concept a long time ago because it's always been a pain point being blamed for communication issues, but I didn't know until now that it has a name. I've experienced genuine confusion so many times because someone didn't understand me or I misunderstood something they said. Thank you for making this video!

Woah! That was one of the most informative videos I've seen on autism. I'm self-diagnosed and easily related to pretty much everything you said. I also now know why people seem weird and Americans seem double-weird (I live in New Zealand). That children would be actually taught about what to say, when to smile, body language and that stuff seems very foreign to me. Maybe I just didn't understand it as a kid, but to me that just feels like lying. My body, my face, just does what it does with no input from my conscious mind and I prefer it like that. I also have some degree of speech processing disorder and I'm getting a little deaf, so I find it hard sometimes to figure out what others are saying. Consequently I watch peoples' mouths, not their eyes. (And BTW, when you did that stare I had to look away, I felt really uncomfortable!). There are certain people with whom I really struggle to communicate, and other who are a joy to chat with, and a bunch somewhere in between, and you've explained the reason for that very well. Thank you.

I don't have autism (not a diagnosis because both tests I've done says I have work on depression and anxiety prior to making a definite diagnosis on adhd and autism). But I relate so much about masking my heart goes to autistic people. Whatever I have makes me have to translate the way I think to words people expect like the connections among subjects my brain does, the words I choose to use are never what people are looking for and that causes so much headache. It is like I'm always trying to speak a foreign language I don't fully understand despite the tests coming back with high scores for language and vocabulary. I flunked the math section yet it came back 130 iq. I'm always in defensive mode ans it is painful, always bringing up what people said or done previously and how it affected my decision making but it seems every decision I make is wrong in people's eyes. That incapacity to make the right decisions makes me ask loads of questions upfront, makes me look for every way things can fail and that irks people so much. They say I'm the one trying to be negative or settings to fail, but I just want things to work smoothly. I'm tired of it, but I can't change.

Maybe your best video yet. This topic has, of course, been covered by others, but I feel like you really nailed the most important points and how it affects both autistics and allistics, and did it in an easily understood way for all.

Thank you so much for making this channel and these videos. It seems like each video is explaining a small piece of my life and suddenly my struggles and challenges start making sense. I really needed someone to tell me all these things, I just didn’t know it! Thank you so much!

I have endured EVERY SINGLE ONE of these problems, most memorably the problems with police and the "don't want to be here" assumption from my expression (from a supervisor at a badly-needed job where I was busting my ass). In many cases, the NTs I dealt with were so nasty about it, I wondered why I would even bother.

I practice not assuming their intention and asking more clarifying questions myself. Also advocating for the difference and asking others to do the same instead of assuming mine. This video is great, I added it to my saved videos to show people when I need to, thank you!

When I was about 6: Teacher: 'Do you want to help me with this?' Me: 'No' - and walked on by Later that day I was berated by the principal in front of the whole school. Fortunately I wasn't upset because I felt secure in having done no wrong - I jjust stood there, finding the whole situation really odd and unnecessary. As a child I knew the truth - THEY had the communication problem. As an adult I've unfortunately become more apologetic. Thanks for the great video! I loved how you stared at the camera to illustrate eye contact - I find it really hard to concentrate when I'm looking eye-to-eye so that stare was hilarious. I've noticed that the Chinese culture seems more autism-friendly. And in indigenous Australian culture, looking someone in the eye - especially if you've done something wrong - is considered disrespectful. Imagine how that comes across to police officers!

@wizardsuth

12 күн бұрын

I wish people would say what they mean. The teacher didn't actually ask for help. Had they said, "Please help me with this" no doubt you would have.

As a young adult beginning to navigate more complex feelings in my relationships, I began describing our frustrations as a language barrier. I'm ADHD and autistic, most of my friends are ADHD. My assumption is that we would have an easier time communicating but, especially when big feelings are involved, we rarely understand each other. I am rarely understood at all I think. I'll still practice and rearrange words in my head to create presicely what i mean and it usually still fails. C'est Autistic vie.

@RealBradMiller

16 күн бұрын

I will be like "So and so makes me uncomfortable, I'm going to remove myself from the situation when it happens." Or "I function in so and so way, and if this is a problem, let me know." And still... People agree, and then are astonished when I do so.

Thank you for your videos, Chris and Debby! They are refreshing and accurate. This episode punched me in the solar plexus because it reiterated what my counsellor (who is also Autistic) discussed and explained to me at our recent session!

Eye contract is a cultural thing. I taught in a culture where averting one's eyes was a sign of respect. People who were talking with each other would often stand and look in the same direction rather than at each other. Yet, this gets used as a criterion for assessing one's neurological state.

I have autistism, ADHD, dyslexia, and dyscalculea. However, I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my late 40s. For my entire life, I have struggled with employment - not working "fast enough," acting awkward, and keeping to myself. I always felt anxious because my bosses scutinized my every move, and I'd wind up regressing or forgetting skills and performing even more poorly. It was assumed that I was the one who had to change, even after I was diagnosed. I suppose that is the crux of double - empathy.

I see two autistics communicating and I see them struggling, I see one autistic and one allistic communicating and I see them sometimes struggling and sometimes the allistic person is making most of the effort for the communication to happen, I see two allistics communicating and most of the time it goes mostly smoothly (assuming they're more or less the same age, culture, speak the same language, etc.), and sometimes it goes particularly well when both people are particularly good at communicating/theory of mind and/or are putting effort, or are simply similar enough that they get each other without much effort. That being said, of course the average allistic person could make an effort to communicate better in general, so it can be understood as a problem on both sides in that sense, but in practice from the people I have interacted it, even the most intelligent, empathic and communicative autists have problem communicating and or delivering enough details, or assuming the right context, or telling apart what the other person probably knows or don't know OR asking whether they know it or don't and not just assuming that "because I know, they probably know too". Most mental/development/personality disorders are described on the DSM from what they seem on the outside rather than the driving reason behind it, so, I do agree that are layers to the problems that aren't well explained and aren't necessarily obvious (e.g. people with NPD don't truly feel important deep down, on the contrary, they feel irrelevant, useless, worthless, powerless, incapable, and really fear that, so they counteract this by doing things to try to convince themselves they are important, capable and powerful; likewise, people on the Autism spectrum may not have trouble with communication in and of itself but end up having trouble communicating due to theory of mind problems, stress, sensory overload, a different way of thinking about things, but in the end the external result is the same).

love love love the Chris and Debby real people clips. that's the way to add visual interest without making our brains jump the tracks. I hate all caps, but THANK YOU STEVE (if you are still there). i also noticed the peaceful lack of sound effects (until the end). so much better. But i see that you upped the nausea with the flashing and psychedelic backgrounds and pop up lettering. Chris can tell you that we dont need more sensory stimulation. please know that autists are prone to migraines. and sometimes seizures. and diahhrea.

I'd be really glad if that video had subtitles in Portuguese so that I could send it to my love. I'm an autistic person struggling to get a formal diagnosis. I've already told her, but think she still doesn't know how to del with my issues. Hope this video will make it clear. Love your channel ❤

This is great advice for anyone, whether autism is involved in the communication or not. It's always two-sided. Well, at least two sided. In a group, oh boy.

I have become so use to making eye contact that I make constant eye contact with whoever I am talking too, or if in a group, looking constantly at the current person speaking😅. I now get told off for how intense my eye contact is, but as a kid I would just glance at people talking to me and get criticized for that😞. You can never win it seems like.

Autism appears to correlate with higher instances of Neanderthal DNA. The fact that autistic individuals communicate naturally with each other indicates this may not be a disorder. When humans and Neaderthal interbred for about 7,000 or so years (admixture), that's when Neaderthal populations began to decline while humans started to see rapid success. This admixture gave humans a different neurotype - the one belonging to Neanderthals. Neaderthals had larger brains, smaller family groups, and hunted way more frequently. Humans at the time were often in larger groups, gathered more than hunted, and had slightly smaller brains streamlined for effective communication and problem-solving. The admixture meant that humans now had two main neurotypes - neurotypical (generalist) and neurodivergent (specialist). Generalists were very good at working together while specialists were very good at noticing patterns in nature and curious to learn all they could about a subject (such as healing herbs), constellation pattern changes as seasons changed, how to manipulate animal behavior (such as taming wolves), and perhaps even curiosity on how plants grow (precursor to agricultural revolution). Autism may appear on a spectrum because the "mix" doesn't perfectly replicate the original neurotype. The mix can vary widely. I suspect ADHD and other "disorders" that affect similar genes are probably related to the admixture. Specialists don't do well in generalist roles, and vice versa. Generalists just tend to be the majority while specialists are more rare. Similar to left-handedness, specialists are needed, just not in very high percentages. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. As newer discoveries are made, I sincerely hope more evidence is found to support this theory.

This entire video for me was like a "aha" moment. Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your knowledge.

@ChrisandDebby

10 күн бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

The examples of me.being misunderstood seem to be practically limitless... The most comkon ones for me are being presumed to be in the wrong or hiding something (in disciplinary settings), to be misunderstood now matter how careful I am with my word choice, to be called rude for what appears to be simply speaking, to be called arrogant/condescending for my careful choice of words qnd likely many more that I'm not thinking of at the moment.

This subject matter is so important, and not discussed enough. I’ve been blamed in so many work situations for “communication issues” that were my fault cause I’m not a normie 😕it’s frustrating and makes me feel ostracized

interesting that a flat face for me is comfort, and smiling is discomfort. I smile and it looks very fake and forced when Im stressed or freaked out or uncomfortable and dont know what to do, its involuntary and ppl misread me a lot and dont take me seriously bc i cant stop. seriously. I'll smile until my face fucking hurts just bc im having to be around someone who scares me.

I always say I feel like I am a traveller from Japan. Your video is so well explained! Thank you.

@katharinegates2917

24 күн бұрын

Yes, I used to do a lot of solo travel and I think I succeeded more in those social situations becuase people expected me to be from a different culture so chalked miscommunications up to that

I'm currently in the best relationship I've ever been in and it's with someone from a different country (UK and Denmark) who was raised with completely different social norms than me (raised in US) and I think the main reason is that we're both very open and direct in our communication. I know most of our conversations don't fall in with US social norms and he often jokes that I'm very British/Danish for an American (depending on the topic). All this to say, the comparison of autistic communication to varied cultural communication is accurate based on my experience and I appreciate this video 😊

This video will be shared at once. Wonderful!❤

this articulates this topic beautifully. more people in the business world need to understand this. Communication to me, when its not with someone I feel comfortable with, is like trying to hold a whole bunch of cards in my hands and remember which order they need to be played in and hoping I have enough space to play them all and have drawn the right cards. When its with other NDs ... its like a relief. Its like "finally, someone gets me"

In my twenties I was a swimming coach. I often had 8 to 10 yo that came with their school in large groups. Within our team of coaches, I was known to be the one that could work with the autistic kids (usually the non verbal with troubles being touched because they were the ones easily identified by the education system). And here I am, a 36 yo, just getting my autism diagnosis.... So the "communication between autistic people" being easier makes so much sense when thinking about those kids and the way I could help them, and their teacher telling me I was the only one that could "handle them" in the pool....

The hardest for me is not being able to handle bossiness. Don't tell me what to do. I will do whatever is needed whenever I feel like it. But it will always be in/on time.

@cwonderland6259

23 күн бұрын

Sounds like PDA. Which I have. And I acknowledge also that relationships require give and take and sometimes not always doing things on your own time / according to your preferences. And that sometimes the pressure or demands I feel are happening are just my own feelings, not actual demands. If everything is always in/on your time, yeah... relationships are not gonna work out for you.

I feel so comfortable listening to you. It would be nice to have you and Debbie as a neighbors/friends.

OMG, I freakin love this page and am so glad I found you. I was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD last year at 58 years old. Since then, I have immersed myself in everything I can find about both disorders, and your page explains ASD so concisely and understandable, that I am sharing it with my entire family because I can't explain it in a way they get. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

@ChrisandDebby

21 күн бұрын

This comment made our day!!! So glad you found us too and that our content is helpful for you and your family. We're still learning a lot as we go, but your message is a good reminder of the exact reason why we started this channel. Also if there's specific topics you'd suggest that we cover here, feel free to email us!

I'm an employed (as a frontend programmer) still only self diagnosed autistic, and yes, job interviews were rough. Of course the first job was really hard since my resume didn't get me that many interviews in the first place, but after my first job everyone liked my resume; I got called in to interviews almost every position I applied for; but almost every interviewer instantly hated me; especially if it was they were HR or recruiters. If it was the boss doing the interview they would usually be superficially very polite, in "sales person mode" trying to "charm" me and sell their company and impossible to read; but I guess most of them also hated me. But the very few interviews where they didn't instantly hate me; the interviewer often was a fellow programmer that was almost certainly autistic, ADHD or both; and they instantly loved me and this is the jobs I got. One of the interviews they instantly invited me for a beer down at the local pub after a very short interview. And while I probably annoy a lot of neurotypicals where ever I'm working; after nearly 20 years of experience I'm so good at my job that all my quirks are tolerated; or even somewhat expected since after almost all the "genius programmer" stereotypes are basically just autistic traits (and also some ADHD traits, such as the stereotype of programmers being night owls; which I ironically don't actually fit despite officially having ADHD).

@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug

21 күн бұрын

Also being a programmer I need to have very specific instructions, because the computer needs very specific instructions; you can't just give the computer the "gist" of what you want it to do and expect it to just "wing it" with all the edge cases using it's neurotypical intuition, since computers are damned stupid and have absolutely no intuiton. So most neurotypicals understand that or can at least easily be convinced that the reason I'm asking very specific questions is because the programming needs those questions defined. In fact most of the time in programming you are only concerned about the rare 1% or less edge cases, since the average case is so trivial it's the edge cases that takes time to fix; and you can't just ignore the edge cases (like neurotypicals ignore that their communication style doesn't work for us) because the computer will crash or severely misbehave even for the average case if the edge cases is not properly handled.

@vickiamundsen2933

17 күн бұрын

@@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug garbage in, garbage out, right? I'd venture to say 90% of programmers are on the spectrum.

@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug

17 күн бұрын

@@vickiamundsen2933 that depends on how prestigious being a programmer happens to be in a society, and also how much you include as being "on the spectrum" (e.g. dyslexia seems to be really common among my colleagues. And there's quite a lot of inattentive ADHD'ers). But if you only include the programmers who would have chosen it no matter how good the pay and prestige is, I'm sure those are 90% neurodivergent of some kind.

Thank you, Chris - You have such a great way of explaining things - I often share your videos with my co-workers or NT family so I have "another voice" to explain what I've been trying to say!

Great video, and well presented. I hadn’t been able to understand the “double empathy” concept, before, even though I’ve watched many videos on it. Also, I’d noticed that people often conflate “empathy”, with “sympathy”. If I had a dollar, for every time someone told me I was “rude”, when I was simply being open/honest, I’d have a lot of dollars. 🙂

@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw

24 күн бұрын

I definitely know the emotional difference, but am ashamed to admit that I didn't have the vocabulary to know it. I was just googling 'empathy vs sympathy' and I just realized that I think I never looked up the definition for sympathy until today. 4 decades old and I never knew it meant that! "sympathy is our relief in not having the same problems"

The importance of direct and clear instrucitons and questions cannot be overstated! My (ADHD) husband loves to ask deep, hypothetical questions to help him explore the 100s of places his brain is trying to go - I OFTEN have to say "I don't know what you mean - can you give me an example?" or "Can you say that a different way?" - - on the other hand, my younger brother (high-support needs ASD) and I sometimes fall into the trap of miscommunication because, even though we're both Autistic, I'm not clear enough when giving directions. Example: "David, it's laundry day - the washer is open, please bring up your clothes" - David brings up his basket and sits it next to the washer because I didn't say "bring up your clothes and wash them" - but, because I understand the double empathy problem, I don't judge him for that, I look at the basket and say "that's on me, bud, I wasn't clear. Can you go ahead and wash your clothes?" and then he does.

02:12 Good grief, I had so many problems with body language growing up. Eye contact and crossed arms especially. "Are you listening to me?", I would then repeat the last sentence verbatim, the I'd have an "attitude problem". Well, I didn't 5 minutes ago, but I do now. Also, "make eye contact", but "It's rude to stare". I failed more than one job interview because I didn't make enough eye contact or I stared into his soul and freaked him out. (Although, my worst interview was with a lady that didn't speak English very well and when she asked "How you come to for help yourself?" I was stumped for an answer.)

@wizardsuth

12 күн бұрын

When someone asks, "Are you listening to me?" they don't want an honest answer. It's an expression of frustration because they assume you aren't listening. When you prove them wrong it just makes them angrier. I find this kind of question annoying because its only purpose is to irritate the other person.

The "processing time" makes me wonder if pre-processing a conversation or, in your example, menu "go-tos" are a coping mechanism for high masking autistics in allistic society. It's so fucking exhausting.

Refreshing to have someone present information on autism that is up to date and accurate. You do speak fast though. I slowed you down to .75x, and whilst it made you look funny 😂, I could understand you much better. Anyway, thank you for spreading factual information on autism.

I've been watching you since I started pursing an adult diagnosis and this video has really hit hard. This is me.

I am certain that i have autism and adhd, and your videos, along with some other videos, have helped to put all the little odd things i do into perspective. The way i would describe myself is that my brain functions like a computer. I catalog and correlate information about everything around me. I have some things that are very interesting, like healthcare and medicine, stuff about how the body works, music... i love love love to sing, and find myself humming snippets of songs i like over and over. I love reading and also love other science based topics. I am super curious about things. On the other side of that, my brain functions much like a computer, if i am thinking about things my thoughts way outpace how fast words can come out of my mouth, so sometimes things can come out as a jumbled mess or only half coherent. I can communicate through other media, like music. With my brain being a lot like a computer thiugh, i have difficulty with things like small talk because it just doesn't register as being important... data is important and small talk doesn't give me data that is interesting. I've always wondered if other people, especially autistics, might see their brains in much the same way. I am 51, and have been fortunate in that my father was an electrician and realized that computers would be the next big thing, so since I was 8 I've been around computers. What do you all think?

I've seen neurodivergent people (kids especially) get so traumatised by the isolation of being surrounded by oblivious neurotypical people, or even traumatised by neurotypical authority figures punishing them for what the authority perceives as their failures, that they actually become bad at interacting with anyone, even other neurodivergent people! I was sceptical when I first came across the idea that neurodivergent people weren't bad at social stuff, just different, because I was genuinely bad at social stuff when I was younger. I didn't realise that it was caused by something else, until I had the opportunity to work thru that other trauma and heal from it.

Oh my God, this hits the nail on the head with so much that I think about. Especially with being scared to do anything with police or legal issues. I'm terrified! Even if I know I've done nothing wrong! This REALLY affects everyday life.. especially when your family threatens you with police or institutionalization any time you have a meltdown. I have begged for help with this, but they don't understand that I'm misunderstood! It's SO frustrating! I just want to be a functioning part of society!

I think a better example for some is a New Yorker (city folk) trying to communicate with an Appellation (country folk). This removes ethnicity, gender, race, etc., and may resonate easier with some neurodivergent folk (like hubby, who had challenges with the example). Love the video and the information presented! I enjoy your perspective on neurodivergence and your sense of humor. Also the mistakes at the end or the cutaways in some videos are just fun and relatable.

I learned from bambi" If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" people talking to me " you don't talk very much , do you?"

@vickiamundsen2933

17 күн бұрын

exactly -- feels like i can't win.

@azorahigh3218

17 күн бұрын

The game is rigged for normies to not win and tear each other apart in the process ( crab bucket theory?.) Imagine how rigged it is for the rest us.

having only figured out that I am autistic at the age of 60, curiously I am now better at Smalltalk as I now understand why I was so bad at it. having tinnitus and apd I usually have to point an ear at whoever is speaking in order to hear them. frequently get accused of not listening. frequently I'm bored and aren't 😊

This is an awesome video that highlights gaps in the current way we can tend to communicate and also still acknowledged everyone has a part to play

When I was in school I remember being stumped in English lessons by the question "how has the author created tension in the following passage?" I would think "well he's got a pen and written some words on paper" knowing this really wasn't the answer but not knowing how to the answer the question, giving up in frustration and concluding that I didn't have the intelligence necessary to answer the question. When I became an English teacher (!) I had to teach myself how to answer the question. So it relates to the author's choice of nouns and verbs e.g. "the door screeched" instead of "the door made a noise", or witholding information about the man in the stort; we don't know who he is, what his name is etc. Simple stuff really when it's explained clearly. So this is what I would do for my pupils - tell them what I was looking for! I think people tend to assume that things like this are obvious - becoming aware of unacknowledged assumptions is important. Sometimes really simple obvious things can be missed. Like people need pointing in the right direction and once they can see what is expected of them they are good to go.

My daughter and sister butt heads constantly, and I know it's because of the double empathy issue. But my sister acts like this is my daughter's issue alone. So I end up sending her videos like these, which she ignores. Of course, I speak with my daughter, too, because after a lifetime of masking and dealing with neurotypicals, I've pretty much figured out what's expected. But it's so frustrating that it's always all on us to understand and adjust. My sister is the only NT in the household. In a lot of ways, *she* is in *our* world. She's needs to start trying to meet us all halfway. Thanks for this. I'll share it. Not confident she'll open it, much less watch it, but here's hoping.

Thx for this vid, chris. I was wondering, when autistics meet new people, is there a protocol for letting the new person know early on that one is autistic? Does this help give the new person a patience that might not otherwise be there?

10:30 my wife wanted us to go the therapy to help understand my autism. The therapist supposedly specializes in neurodivergence, but when I said I was worried my wife wants me to mask at home, he told me I should do that because it’s “giving her my best” like I do for my job.

Anyone ever reply with "I don't understand. Could you clarify?" or "By that do you mean..." and get hit with a shouted "How could you not understand that?!? Are you trying to be difficult?"

@wizardsuth

12 күн бұрын

Its particularly bad when they express something in a vague, ambiguous, or metaphorical way, such that the literal interpretation makes no sense, and they include several unspoken assumptions. How could I possibly be expected to understand a message that lacks real content?

This has been the story of my life, even prior to diagnosis. At work, I get blamed a lot for miscommunications no matter how well I articulate or craft messages. I’m dating a fellow autistic now and find we have considerably fewer communication challenges.

Thanks so much for this video, very helpful for neurotypicals, especially. I love the potato story! That kind of thing happens with my husband all the time. :D