"Anything can be effective if you've conditioned the opponent enough." That was the perfect moment to play "Yo, did he just walk? up? slowly? And down smash?"

@Eaode

2 жыл бұрын

goddamn that's a missed opportunity

@firetarrasque4667

2 жыл бұрын

@@Eaode I literally paused and watched the clip

@toe_sucker_4165

2 жыл бұрын

It was a mixup.

Hey, I play guitar in Horse Lung. Cool to hear our song in this video! Thanks!

@TheoryFighter

3 жыл бұрын

Woahhhh, I absolutely love your music !

@TurtleRocker12

3 жыл бұрын

Do you guys tour? I'd definitely see a band called horse lung

@mcpartridgeboy

3 жыл бұрын

horse bastard are better than you guys

@froberg6

3 жыл бұрын

plz tour

@alexhunter2128

3 жыл бұрын

@@mcpartridgeboy you’re not wrong about that

LOL I rember the first time I saw an empty jump SPD in the arcade SF2 as a kid. It blew my fucking mind. I was like, "That's brilliant". Empty jump low had a similar effect, but not nearly as impressive, as it's so hard to get in with Gief, especially in those older games. Edit: Oh, and you should check out one of Justin Wong's most recent videos where he plays Gief in Alpha 2. It is literally nothing but grappler jumps lol. His first opponent had to switch to Akuma for his DP because he was eating so many jumping fierces. And just about the time he finally focused on anti-airing them with Sakura, Justin started changing buttons, changing the distances he would jump in, and just empty jumping and punishing. It is a hilarious to watch.

@keithsimpson2685

3 жыл бұрын

Try King of fighters. Being able to hop into this stuff with their grapplers who can super cancel grapples is really fun.

@gamecentergarou6725

3 жыл бұрын

I thought Wong hated Gief lmao. I guess he was just being facetious

@t4d0W

3 жыл бұрын

@@keithsimpson2685 98 Daimon is one of the best 'balanced' KOF pure grappler archetypes. Though Iori along with his versatile shoto like kit and just happens to have a cmd grab atk like scum gale creates even more mixup and damage potential overall. There are also 'fun' grappler types like Hinako from 02 UM and Vice who in some games has the explosive ability to put pressure and bring you to the corner.

@Gramasz

2 жыл бұрын

Empty jump low is very rectable in a non airdasher fighting game.

@augustgreig9420

2 жыл бұрын

@@Gramasz First of all, it's not easily reactable[sic] in 2D fighters without air dash. And second of all, it certainly wasn't easily reactable 30 years ago when people used to actually get salty if you swept them over and over again because they didn't know how to block low. There were no instructions, even for core mechanics. But for tricky shit like this, it took getting hit by it several times to even begin to be able to defend against it consistently, especially without a DP, and even if other people had warned you about it ahead of time. It was a legit tactic then, and is a legit tactic now. Maybe less so in say SFV, but even in older games, at high level, empty jump>low still works. I know I've hit pros with it numerous times, and I've seen pros hit each other with it in SFV.

Love that doom metal in the background.

@Azzabajam

3 жыл бұрын

I think thats the main reason i subbed

I get hit by snake egde because I expect the taunt jet upper. makes sense

@UltimateBallaPOM

3 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣

@blackheavymetalman

3 жыл бұрын

I get hit by them because my reaction is so slow even bullet time couldnt save me

I've been looking for the name of this tech forever. Well done

@floofzykitty5072

3 жыл бұрын

It's also somewhat related to tomahawk jumps

@Ramsey276one

3 жыл бұрын

0:43 in a 2-second nutshell

@kibakong8077

3 жыл бұрын

I thought it was called a empty jump

@AaronRotenberg

3 жыл бұрын

@@kibakong8077 An empty jump is any jump where you don't press any buttons. Using the definition from this video, a grappler jump is a special case of empty jump.

@kibakong8077

3 жыл бұрын

@@AaronRotenberg that's super specific lolol good looking out

dude, love your content. Analysis and cadence is spot on.

Guile can mostly shut down those jumps with anti air back sobat (beats/trades with far jump ins, if they do empty jump spd he moves back to be out of range). You also want to use cr mk instead of sweep anti air, because sweep is nearly impossible to safely space vs gief j hp/hk. Gief can beat anti air lows anyway with mk knee drop. And regarding the forced block into spd, guile can just take the hit while crouching, and then flash kick the spd, since it's not a combo.

@djfuvideo2

3 жыл бұрын

You’re famous now jack

@JPCWhutwhut

3 жыл бұрын

listen to jack

The way the font on your end logo is set out, I thought for a second it said "THE DRY FIGHTER!"

@logandunlap9156

3 жыл бұрын

the dry fighter needs some lotion

Grappler = Conditioner

Never thought I'd see a concept so eloquently described in this level of detail and subtle nuances. It's like I already knew what conditioning was but i wasnt expecting all this condensed into 8 minutes.

Between the background music, great information, and that sick-ass logo (that I somehow didn't notice before the end of your video), you've certainly earned this sub.

This was an epic representation of unbridled analysis bro! Truly a masterpiece! Your understanding of fighting game mechanics on a whole is damn near god-like legendary! Well done!

I had never heard of this tech! Thank you for adding something new to my arsenal :3 Excellent video as always

I've never thought about this before. Great content here. My mind is really busy now thinking about how to use this and practice this.

paint: drank glue: sniffed up-forward: held _oh yeah, it's grappler time_

Amazing the level of thought and planning that goes in to high level play.

Great video, and your taste in music is impeccable.

Great song selection!! Love Horse Lung

Does this remind anyone else of the High-score Girl anime/manga?

@sassyflygonthesecond4993

3 жыл бұрын

yup

@gamecentergarou6725

3 жыл бұрын

That final episode of HSG is this video's analysis put into practice. If you check the Shoryuken Wiki's frame data for Zangief, you'll see why Oono's Zangief seemed to plot armor his way past that Mexican Uppercut from Guile. As Yaguchi explains in hindsight, he was being conditioned into throwing out that crouching fierce, so in the moment of truth, Oono deliberately whiffs her dropkick for the shrunken hitboxes and closed out the match.

@djhero0071

3 жыл бұрын

Would you say it’s worth playing as an anime alone?

@VegarotFusion

3 жыл бұрын

Yep. I believe this video appeared on my KZread home page because after watching the series I watched several review videos on YT to see what other people thought of the series.

@Vespyr_

3 жыл бұрын

Uhm no. The high score girl anime Manga reminds me of this concept. Anyone who isn't a Zoomer has known this shit for years.

Been thinking about this without a name or way to really explain this for some days, thank you

@Boyzby

3 жыл бұрын

This is the first time I've ever heard the term. I'm relatively new to fighting games, so maybe that's why I've always heard it referred to as "empty jump", which I think is much more descriptive and straightfoward.

@TheoryFighter

3 жыл бұрын

The term Grappler jump is more about intent than form if that makes sense. So even though it sits inside the neutral jump definition it's more specific

You have a very relaxing voice, great video as usual.

What used to be basic fundamentals is now an 8 minute video on a theory channel. Truly the golden age of fighting games

love your vids and your musical selection!

I love theory crafting and I love fighters. You my battle brother, my dude.

Liked the lecture. LOVED the guitar in the background

The first 9 seconds made me subscribe. Firstly for the commentary. Secondly because there's this tiny person with a sword going head to head against a giant grappler guy and I'm laughing my ass off.

Good video, I rarely play grapplers but when I did I always liked landing those command grabs and seeing their HP bar vanish lol

@jestfullgremblim8002

3 жыл бұрын

Lmao

@sanjivinsmoke2719

3 жыл бұрын

Bruhh come to the geif side young padawan

Great theory crafting, I love it. Subbed

I'm so glad I found your channel!

I'm learning so much with this channel. Thank you (:

I had to laugh at myself when you brought up the dolphin dive I get caught by that way too much and every time I'm like how tf did I not react to that lmao

You feel like the new core a gaming, great videos.

I got really into fighting games awhile back, but I couldn’t play as grappler characters and I didn’t understand how to use them or why I lost to them online. Wish I would’ve found your channel then!

Coming from Smash (initially) it was a pleasant surprise when I discovered that tomahawk grabs are a thing in traditional FGs as well lol

@dotChrollo

3 жыл бұрын

BROOO been an all around FG player for about a year now, started as a smash player maybe 3 years ago. I still have to correct myself when playing anything that isn't smash. Empty jumps are tomahawks, mirror matches are dittos, etc.

@sirchris6047

3 жыл бұрын

Imagine calling smash bros a fighting game

@tavrincallas3218

3 жыл бұрын

@@dotChrollo same! :D

@dotChrollo

3 жыл бұрын

@@sirchris6047 imagine caring

@swank8508

3 жыл бұрын

@@sirchris6047 pretty much every part of neutral and footsies has an analog in melee, idk why people think its not a fighting game

This is very interesting. Love your channel

KOF is a lil more fluid with this concept because of their universal jump/hop system along with the run to cover more of the screen. So the spacing is more of a frentic exercise along with accounting for different chars having minute differences in hop/jump ranges and possibly having very good air buttons as well or the CD attack. Also some KOF chars aren't 'pure' grapplers but have a reliable kit with a great grapple move to throw into the mix. Though historically Daimon from 97/98 offered one of the strongest balance of a lumbering pure grappler type who has ways of getting in as well with keeping space with gdlk buttons.

Teaches a Master Class with every video.

Great content, highly underrated channel.

I'd like to have a 100% grappler one day - by that I mean all their special moves are grapples and/or extensions of them. I know of King from Tekken exists, but that's not good enough: I want a shoto to be freaking scared of a jump-in that has the potential to grapple them no matter what they do: As long as the grappler predicts it. Also why have I never found a grab that is built to counteract normals in the air and counter-grapple those specifically? A grappler that almost entirely relies on conditioning and grapple-mixups would be a wonder to play and watch - they'd have glaring weaknesses and *very* powerful mixups - imagine a grappler who has slow grapples they can use on their opponent' wakeup to keep them in a vortex. Something like, low-mid-air on wakeup is the mixup, low and mid can be jumped (but low can be safe, resetting into neutral if failed), air and mids whiff lows - giving a free combo, and mids grab catches backdashes/sidesteps/whatever ingame universal escape option there is in place. These aren't set in stone, but something like that would be incredible: They'd be the pinnacle of modern fighting games - because such an archetype would be completely useless in Arcades: The amount of tech required would be too much, but very viable with global social media: They'd be the pinnacle of modern fighting game tech - a symbol of how far the fighting game community has come over the last 30+ years.

@nuclearsynapse5319

Жыл бұрын

Bullet from Blazblue is all command grabs and hitgrabs excepting a combo ender super and an anti-zoner fireball. She's also fast af and has a momentum mechanic but that's just blazblue things

@nivyan

Жыл бұрын

@@nuclearsynapse5319 Ty, I'll check her out 😁

@nuclearsynapse5319

Жыл бұрын

@@nivyan there's also tager in the same game. He's a big body grappler but if they gave him literal magnet hands. He's got command grabs that can pull you in from full screen if you're not careful and grabs that give him 30 frames of full invuln. Blazblue overall is a hell of a game it sounds wack because it is, but it's surprisingly fair.

Nice channel man. Look forward to playing you on fc, I've seen you lurking there...

@TheoryFighter

3 жыл бұрын

👀

Sooo I’ve been playing tekken7 for a few months now. Getting better at it! My phone recommended this video! And I’m thankful for it! Nice video

very interesting!!as a fighting game player this is golden!

I think this is the first time I've seen more than just small clips of granblue fantasy versus Now I kinda wanna get into it

@chrismanuel9768

2 жыл бұрын

It's so fucking fun, and it's a nice change up. Medieval Fantasy 2D fighter? Knights and shit. I love it.

Another excellent video! ✊

Now you see, what I thought a Grappler Jump was is that little hop everyone does when they're first learning how to input 360 degree throw moves.

0:53 *Hi Score Girl flashbacks*

I'm glad I subscribed to this channel

Great discussion!

Wow... that was exhilarating!

You've pretty much described the neutral mind game triangle of fighting games here (rushdown beats whiff punishment, whiff punishment beats keepout, keepout beats rushdown).

just recently discovered this tech myself!

Secret TheoryFighter video?

When i jump as a grappler im actually just dont the full circle

dude you have the best taste in music

Granblue sounds pretty cool.

Quality videos. Subbed

In smash it's called a tomahawk. You jump forward in a way that let you hit the opponent. But you just land. The goal is to make them shield and then grab them. That's the most common use. But you can also mix it up by trying to shield break them (rare and only for few character) or by guessing they will not shield and try to punish a grab, so either you shield or hit them with a fast move.

@N12015

Ай бұрын

BUT if they predict the grab they can attack you with a combo starter (which are usually down tilts, which are the equivalent to lows), and if you do an aerial they can spotdodge them and punish the endlag. Is the exact same Idea and scenario, but more broadly applied because grabs are generally more rewarding than in regular fighting games.

This was "fixed" in MVC2. Guile's flashkick comes out much faster so you have a larger window knock Zangief's ass back. Or you can just choose Sagat. And just keep your grappler at bay with high and low tiger punches, or heavy kicks which can be used as an AA but also has a ton of horizontal striking distance. In CvS2 his HK reaches almost to half screen. Follow it up with a quick tiger shot and you can position Zangief's ass right back where he started.

One of my favorite fighting game memories was facing Kazunoko in my SFV pools last year in an Ibuki mirror, and I had a good enough idea of his mental stack that I hit him with a walk up DP, lol. I lost that set but it was a very fun mental back and forth we had, kind of like a conversation without words.

Balrog M.Bison is real trippy

@youknowwho257

3 жыл бұрын

Actually, is not. Capcom in USA sucks to cut the history, they fear that Mike Tyson could make theyr lives miserable in court so they decided to change the fighters name. The final boss true name = VEGA The boxer true name = M. Bison (the name that caused all this crap...) The spanish true name = Balrog They just swaped the names around so their asses whould be safe in USA.

I dont agree with the video maker on many of the more opinionated points, but the video itself is well made and concise. Back in the day we just called this an emptyjump to bait the AA. Mixups that are “too strong” dont mess a game up. They make you focus on neutral ans not play like an idiot since a mistake can make you lose the round, not like in newschool where you can eat 15 combos and still have half health.

Every Sf fans must watch anime call "Hi-score girl"

@georgegkoumas5026

3 жыл бұрын

well thanks for the suggestion, always loved to see SF references but this... is a step forward

As a zangeif main yep jumping is a fundamentally necessary for him.. I get destroyed for it but sometimes with good timing I get a good mixup

@ 0:01 Wait, whoa. Why is there a gremlin creature on my screen!?

Good vid on this tech. I personally wouldn't use the term grappler jump as it's not tech that's exclusive to grapplers (but if it's already a caught-on term, it doesn't really matter to me). Reason being, I used to watch a lot of super turbo, and it was common for any character who wanted to get in against a zoner to use this tech, even if it wasn't a grappler and had a projectile himself (ie Ryu vs Guile). Maybe something like "FM jump" (FM = far mixup) would work better, but other ppl would have to accept it en masse.

@youknowwho257

3 жыл бұрын

People don't have to accept, if it's true and makes 100% sense people just need to realize that and start to use the correct name. And yeah... the "grappler jump" is 100% NOT the right one here.

I appreciate the grappler love

Good video, but isn't this just the standard way of working jump-ins into rushdown in general? Why specifically "grappler jump"? Also, this is why I (as a defense/footsies-oriented player) have always been a big fan of the varied jumps/hops in SNK games and CvS. It gives so much more depth to the process of either getting in or keeping someone out.

@Duothimir

2 жыл бұрын

Probably because grapplers rely on it harder than any other archetype.

@Ash__Adler

2 жыл бұрын

Can you back that up with an actual explanation?

@Duothimir

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ash__Adler Grapplers are big, slow, heavily telegraphed, and don't often have spammable projectiles to fight from a distance or throw off their opponent's rhythm, and they can't just keep throwing out attacks hoping something will connect because their big, slow, heavily telegraphed attacks are easy to punish if used carelessly.

@Ash__Adler

2 жыл бұрын

@@Duothimir Grapplers don't have to be big or slow (Clark or Vice in KOF, Fuerte in SF4, or most of the cast in Darkstalkers). Lacking projectiles can be said about plenty of non-grappler characters. Every non-braindead character has high-reward moves that will get punished easily if used carelessly. I'd argue the whole idea of "grappler" as a firm archetype doesn't hold up, but that's too long a discussion for a KZread comment 🤷‍♂️

I Was Considering Clark, From SNK. A Bit Of A Risk, But He Can Jump In And Throw, Counter Throws By Standing Near, Plus Air Throw. Thank You, For Video.

Guile vs. gief is crazy match-up. If you don't master the tick grabs with gief, you are done for. good thing about super turbo was the gief bitchslap! forward , down, and forward with punch buttons. if you are not spd grabbing, at least you are slapping guile with that move

Never heard of granblue seriously, is it any good? The design looks amazing.

@pohatunuva3771

2 жыл бұрын

It's very simple but I've enjoyed my 60+ hours with it. The design and atmosphere of granblue fantasy is top-notch, I'm honestly tempted to recommend looking at the art books and albums rather than play the browser game or Granblue Versus. Great setting, great characters, great stories... not-so-great monetization.

@chrismanuel9768

2 жыл бұрын

It's real nice

Your videos are excellent

Whenever i try to screwdriver with Zangief in sf5 ,his arms go right through other character.

This earned a sub

I'm nowhere near good enough at fighting games to use any knowledge presented on this channel

@rafaelcastor2089

3 жыл бұрын

Keep studying, keep playing and you'll get there.

@samyboi420

3 жыл бұрын

Come back to these videos ina few months for fun to see how much better you understand them it could be a good way to gauge your improvement

You make the best videos

Nice vid! thx!

When going up against the AI in SF2, they have access to any of the "charge" moves in an instant. And Zan-grief can grab you from halfway across the screen ... it's great fun LOL!!! Especially the Turbo Edition on the Arcade1up machine 😄🤣😄🤣

Fuck yeah, my kind of specific content.

Wish sfv would have high jumps just to mix the meta a tiny bit. Great video as always.

Sometimes you just gotta air back dash fireball a grappler to put them in their place

Shimmy was ALWAYS a thing Also def in 3s

I'm just sad i didn't find this channel sooner

I wish I knew this when I was playing Marvel vs Streetfighter.

This is a big part of why melee is so hard at top level. Basically every character can do this

Great video

good vid. great philosophy. Call Kierkegaard. Peace

4:07 It depends, but with practice you can train yourself for specific animations, hence where the 16 frames comes from. Without training for specific animations a person's reaction time to something is probably closer to 20 frames at best. Also, dusts hit at every level because: low levels can't block random overheads, mid levels can't block random overheads half of the time, and the idea of using a slow, extremely telegraphed move in high level play is mainly from how poor of an idea it is to try in the first place-- as in few people are actually considering them even happening, which can hurt your reaction time to it. In some cases it could be a spacing thing, a frame trap, or something more to the move itself (looking at Testament and the FRC mixup on it).

@lauracxzv3871

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds legit

Can you make a video on comeback mechanics like v trigger?

nothing feels better then landing dash 720

It becomes game theory at that point. What will they do and what do i do about that

I give it up to esports. This dynamic of game plan on the fly is what happens in sports. Read and react can be used against you. Mind games are definitely a big part of sports

Perfect video

yesssssss

Great video as always!

Man I wish you make a grappler video about incineroar smash Brothers

Cool song

This video is awesome.

this video goes so hard

make a video about the system of Samurai Shodown 7 (2019)