You need to speak the language to blend in. What if you are German and moved to America and expected everyone to speak German? I get it. I live in the Dutch Kingdom for 8 years. I speak Dutch because this is where I choose to live, so I should respect the culture. But that’s me.

@susansobel3571

7 ай бұрын

Not true,many if my expat friends speak Dutch

@Siranoxz

6 ай бұрын

@@susansobel3571 Good and all, but to make Dutch friends, it helps to learn the language.

@nafalyno7284

6 ай бұрын

God mate people speak english in the netherlands they hate speak english becUse dutch speak english to each other. Well bye bye culture shut the f up expats crying go life in portugal you can communicate shit witb them. And if you live for 8 years there im sorry you dont learn shit. About dutch culture you invite youreself😅

I wouldn't call it close minded per se but you didn't think the situation full through and didn't take the Dutch perspective. The Dutch have a high treshold for what they call friends. You lose some and you gain some but friendship is supposed to be for life. Immigrants not learning Dutch is a strong indication they are just passers by, people who will probably hop to the next best country soon. The fact that they can speak English quite well does not mean it's anything like their native language and they want to speak it with friends. Half of their humour and expression gets lost in translation and group talk is a problem, Dutch speaking English with other Dutch is just a huge cringe for everybody involved. Then there is the same thing you have with young people, no common background knowledge and experience. A lot of movies, music, history, news, it's simply not shared. So what do these Dutch people miss out on exactly? They will have to make all the extra effort, only for that to be taken for granted, while most expats seem to feel very special like they are 21th century Marco Polo's enligthening the Dutch about the rest of the world and how their food sucks like the Netherlands hasn't had a very international cuisine since cuisines became international, and like they are not just one of hundreds of thousands of expats, often rather similar in their attitude and limited insights. If an immigrant is not committed to learning Dutch asap, I know enough, I'm not going to invest time anymore. I prefer to miss out on that one sided effort and understanding.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

What you are saying is very understandable and I appreciate you sharing your perspective. Soon, I will however also disclose Dutch perspectives and and that of people who learned the language well. It seems as if expats often feel like it is hard to integrate, even when they learn the language.

@lwiasyl

7 ай бұрын

I speak Dutch and I have a Dutch husband, but I have never felt so alone in my life as when I lived in the Netherlands. A friend of mine has a child with a Dutchman and the same thing happens. She only knows the Dutch because they are the parents of her child's friends. People are very closed to foreigners, no matter how rooted we are in the Netherlands.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing. I think you are by far not the only one who feels that way. Are you living somewhere else now, and did your situation improve? Wishing you all the best.

@DenUitvreter

7 ай бұрын

@@TheMovementHub Even when they learn the language? Language is so much more than just a means of basic communication. It's the primary expression of culture, and it reveals the rest of it, the attitudes, the humour, outlook on life. I don't see how integration could be started without. Also when Dutch people move to a different part of the country they are often wise enough to take same interest in the local dialect, sayings and names. Not to learn to speak the dialect, but to understand how these people are different from what they were used to. I think the people who dive in, immerse themselves right away,, who are hungry for everything that is different rather than comfortably much like what they are used to don't have that much of an issue with integrating. It's not very much about speaking Dutch correctly at all, it's much more about connecting through the language. English can always help out, I don't mind explaining what some expression means, but those explanations landing in a void over and over again because there is no understanding or feel for the language and culture to connect it too is what is the issue. The diving in right away migh also be important and not simply a matter of doing later when it starts getting lonely,because the first hard steps are in a different dynamic than after a few years, taking the first chance might be the easiest. My understanding of cultures I speak the language of is much, much better than of the cultures I don't, because it's through the language that the culture shows itself and is learned about.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

I can definitely see where you are coming from. Languages are of course very important to immerse oneself into a culture. Still, it can be difficult to learn the language for several reasons. Instead of stating my own views, I prefer letting my interviewees share their experiences and insights on the reasons behind these challenges.

I feel what the lady is saying. You will encounter lots of friendliness, but when it comes to actually making friends it can be quite tough.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate your insights.

@nedthestaffieegan3452

Ай бұрын

I notice the very same thing, but my experience was moving from London to another part of the UK. At first when I moved 5 years ago, I found people friendly and polite...more than in London. But as time went on I realized it's impossible almost to move past the initial pleasantries, or have anything like a conversation. It's very strange, as londoners were very open to chatting once you got over their initial wariness..it was much easier to meet random people and strike up interesting conversations. The furthest I've got to having a conversation where I now live, was joking about queue culture in the UK in the Coop.

I am Dutch and lived in other countries for 20 yrs. When it comes to Dutch culture and being included in the circle. Yeah it takes time, best way to integrate is hobby clubs (sports etc) it is a big thing. Additionally Amsterdam is not the best place to integrate. Outside randstad it is easier but you will have to be patient and learn the language. I have seen Italians, Vietnamese, Polish and many others being included it takes time and effort. In that way it works the same way everywhere. I always avoided the typical expat communities as in the end I wanted to learn about local culture and meet the people

Heb je ooit overwogen dat het leren van een taal meer kan zijn dan een eenvoudige plicht? Stel je een opwindende reis voor, een avontuur waar woorden veranderen in diepgaande verbindingen. Het gaat niet alleen om het leren van 'Goedemorgen!' 'Wat heb je in het weekend gedaan?' 'Heb je gezien hoe koud het is?' of soortgelijke verbale trivialiteiten die in Nederland bekend staan als 'koetjes en kalfjes,' maar om de ziel van een taal te verkennen, je onder te dompelen in emoties, verhalen en oprechte menselijke verbindingen. Ik uit mijn respect voor iedereen die probeert Nederlands te leren, maar ik geloof dat de sleutel tot het beheersen van een taal voorbij het "dogma" van verplichting gaat; van het mechanisch moeten doen als een opgelegde plicht. En het is bovenal (bovenal) overdreven simplistisch om te zeggen: 'Leer Nederlands, en de Nederlanders worden vrienden.' Ik ben deze reactie meerdere keren tegengekomen in de opmerkingen op deze video, maar het is een gebrekkig antwoord - een haastig antwoord dat het echte menselijke en emotionele probleem over het hoofd ziet. Een tekort dat een belangrijke rol speelt in het niet geneigd voelen om de Nederlandse taal te leren. Emotionele ervaring en oprechte menselijke verbinding zijn essentieel. Wanneer we converseren (als menselijke wezens), praten we over de samenleving, jouw emoties, jouw dagen en misschien jouw gemoedstoestand anders dan de laatste keer dat we elkaar hebben ontmoet. Hier, beste lezers, wanneer je deelneemt aan betekenisvolle gesprekken (de hierboven genoemde zijn slechts een kleine selectie), wordt leren een genot, en de taal verandert in een instrument om uit te drukken wie we werkelijk zijn. Het gaat niet alleen om 'vrienden maken' (zoals ik lees in veel reacties hier geplaatst), maar om diep te verbinden met mensen en de wereld om je heen. Nu is de vraag: «Heb je onderzocht of dit echt is wat Nederlanders van expats willen?« Vrienden... of gewoon "menselijke hulpbronnen"? Het leren van de Nederlandse taal zou een opwindende reis kunnen worden in plaats van een plicht. Maar om dit te bereiken, zou de mens genaamd een 'expat' zich betrokken moeten voelen bij alles wat niets met geld en werk te maken heeft. Ik nodig je uit om na te denken over deze benadering en je ervaringen te delen over oprechte menselijke communicatie. G.

@TheMovementHub

6 ай бұрын

to add to this: as we get older, it becomes increasingly difficult to learn a language. The Dutch are lucky to already learn a lot of languages at school (or at least build a solid baseline for learning them), which is not the case for people in many other countries.

@gregorjcocco

6 ай бұрын

Dear @@TheMovementHub , Your vision is clear, and I appreciate the importance you place on the approach to a new language by adults within a broader context. The natural empathy and daily human warmth can foster enthusiasm in language learning, as emotional support significantly enhances adult language learning enthusiasm. However, I firmly assert that, in a host country, respect for «the locals» inevitably requires acquiring their language. As per my earlier message, I observed comments simplifying matters with statements like, "If you learn Dutch, the Dutch become friends." I find such a statement unjustified, as friendship is a complex concept that demands a long-term emotional journey. Genuine friendships cannot be "instant" and certainly not solely a result of a foreign language course. Authentic relationships require time and the sharing of meaningful, spontaneous experiences. Those promoting this peculiar view (learn Dutch, make Dutch friends) might fall into three categories: - Frustrated individuals seeking superficial shortcuts, unable to appreciate the complexity of friendship. - Lack of conceptual clarity about friendship, confusing authentic relationships with superficial acquaintances related to language learning. - Individuals subjected to a materialistic reality, practically "under blackmail" for a monthly salary, often convinced they'll find an ideal "wonderland" in the new environment. Examining these situations, it's interesting to note that the second could stem from a lack of conceptual clarity on friendship, as indicated by recent sociological research. Your observation on the multilingualism of the Dutch is accurate. The majority possess diverse language skills for pragmatic reasons such as: - Productivity and Money: Knowing multiple languages enhances the Dutch's natural inclination for trade, making them particularly productive in this field. - Understanding Others: Proficiency in various languages allows the average Dutch individual to grasp the meaning of what "others" are communicating, helping them assess if those "others" pose a threat to any materialistic-economic priorities. This occurs without overtly displaying their excellence in this practice. A clarification is necessary at this point: This Dutch attitude is not reserved only for so-called «expats»; it goes without saying that if they already have this predisposition among blood relatives, imagine how it can be amplified towards foreigners. Analyzing this situation reveals a substantial lack of intrinsic, emotional, or empathetic motivations. The average Dutch individual's drive seems solely focused on their primary reason for existence: accumulating wealth and preserving what they own, be it a worn-out flower pot or a no longer serviceable, rusty bicycle. In this context, there's a lack of emotional connection or empathetic impulse permeating their linguistic motivation, showcasing a predominantly materialistic and economic approach to life. And here we are, once again, at the same conclusion of our thorough analysis in recent weeks: In the Netherlands, a circular approach to materialism permeates the entire daily perspective. The constant orientation towards material aspects underscores the persistence of a mindset embracing materialism in all its facets, without apparent deviations. I conclude by adding a speculative yet fanciful hypothesis that wouldn't resolve the Dutch emotional deficit issue. The hypothesis is as follows: «If, in the future, the evident lack of emotional connection noted by many foreigners (or ignored by them to preserve the well-being linked to the 'made in Holland' salary they perceive) becomes a problem - i.e., if there's a risk of losing those doing jobs the Dutch don't want to do, or if this dissatisfaction leads to a decrease in foreign human resources in the Dutch land - then it's plausible that the Dutch might show an increase in empathy in that context. Or, rather, they might "attempt" to do so». However, this stratagem would be futile and unproductive because it's impossible to simulate spontaneity towards naturally spontaneous people. Each person is inherently themselves, and the forced attempt to appear empathetic could turn into an awkward, clearly constructed performance. This forced effort might be as unnatural as the supermarket cashier's smile, which it simply is part of her "doel," her work objective, without genuine emotional involvement. In this context, the smile becomes a purely formal gesture, forgotten with the arrival of the next customer. And so, dear correspondent, we arrive at yet another bitter conclusion. Instinct, warmth, and natural empathy cannot be acquired. They are either innate or not present at all. G.

It's important to be able to speak Dutch if you want to experience relationships that run deeper than social niceties...

I live outside Amsterdam in a town, in an apartment complex. The apartment next to me was from a company and always inhabited with expats and it was very difficult to build up a bond between us. On workdays in winter you hardly see each other because it is dark when you go out your front door and also dark when you enter your front door at the end of the day. You see each other at weekends, but you also have your own friends and family as well as your own activities. And if our holidays are at the same time, they often go to their home country to visit family and friends. And when you do get acquainted with each other and want to intensify the connection, they are already moving on to another country or back to their home country. After six of this kind of relations with my neighbor expats, I gave up. Only small talk and saying hello or goodbye from then on. They only stayed six months or a year and no one spoke Dutch by the way, only English. I think it would be different if they stayed for longer periods.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

I can imagine that it must be frustrating. Investing time and effort into a relationship, which then ends because of people moving away. I can really feel that. But thank you for having made the effort to make your expat neighbors feel welcomed.

I’ve lived in Switzerland for 7 years and can tell you that it’s exactly the same over there. I don’t think it’s a typical Dutch thing, but more like a general “human being” thing. It’s always more difficult to make new friends at an older age, as older people in general are less open to new friendships because most of the time they already established their friendships and circle of friends. And of course, as a newcomer not speaking the local language, that’s just an extra barrier… So in conclusion, it’s not necessarily a “Dutch thing”. What I do notice though about the expats in Amsterdam is that they tend to be quite negative about the Dutch and our culture. Not sure why that is. Their bratty sense of entitlement can sometimes be quite annoying. And I was an expat myself in Switzerland for 7 years, yet the expats there are much more modest. I think it’s because the Swiss people simply don’t take any BS from their expats to behave all bratty and entitled. The Swiss are proud people and demand your respect. The Dutch are probably too soft and accommodating towards their expats who then in turn exploit that…. Like the way this lady speaks about the food in the Netherlands is so offensive and rude. Anywhere in Netherlands you will be able to find great restaurants. And our super markets are stocked with plenty of fresh foods. Our butchers offer plenty of great meats coming from a variety of sources. There’s plenty of choice if you take the time to look for it. In general, the Dutch foods are of much better quality and more fresh (less additives and less ultra processed) than the American foods are, so what is this American lady even talking about? See, it’s this “entitled and bratty expat attitude” that is probably rubbing the Dutch people the wrong way, making them not want to include them. Dutch people don’t want to deal with that kind of BS.

@angelbonilla2255

6 ай бұрын

Come to.Puerto Rico. We are not like that at all.

@OprechtLetterlijkBizar

6 ай бұрын

@@angelbonilla2255 well I’ve never been to Puerto Rico, but in Europe it’s difficult to make friends in all countries when you’re 1) past a certain age, 2) don’t speak the local language well. Even for example in Spain. Yes people may be friendly (they are in Netherlands much more than for example in Switzerland or Sweden), but being friendly doesn’t mean it’s easy to befriend them. People in Spain for example have the reputation that they’re open and outgoing, and while that might be true, it’s often only skin deep. Achieving a true deep and meaningful friendship and connection with people takes a whole lot more time and effort. It’s hard everywhere to break into a circle of friends who have known each other for years and who have a shared history. Expats in any (European) country usually mostly hang out with other expats. For international students however it’s a completely different story. They succeed much more making friends with the local students, as they’re just at the right age and time in their life when people are open to new friendships and are in the process of friendship formation and establishing their circle of friends.

@carmenl163

6 ай бұрын

Very true. The fact that we Dutch have learned about the 'real' US, with their shitty healthcare, food, and work/life balance has made us aware that expats don't have much to brag about.

@nedthestaffieegan3452

Ай бұрын

Yes I found the complaints about the food a bit whiny. I'm not Dutch but have eaten at amazing restaurants in Amsterdam, and was very impressed with what I saw on display with food produce in markets. At first this lady came across as friendly and amiable, I felt a bit bad for her feeling excluded from things. This is something I find difficult myself as it was common in childhood, and I try to include people if I see them left out. But as she spoke, there was a passive aggressive tone building, and an underlying resentment towards Dutch people for not inviting her into their circles..there were a few little digs in her comments, hidden under a laugh, and it isn't a great quality. No country or culture appreciates when expats berate their customs, food, or criticize what they see as wrong. This may be a reason people are reluctant to open up their friend circle, as once it's open its hard to close. People should be protective of their friends and selective about who gains access. Especially when years go into building these connections, shared history, cultural references. It's just as difficult letting a new person in.

The basic problem is that many expats come here as singles and, although they're not aware, they feel lonely and fell a craving of wanting to speak to other people. The Dutch have their (extended) family and don't need to go out to eat or party. We have our own family to keep us busy. We also don't feel like entertaining foreigners, speaking their language. We may dedicate 5 minutes to you but then the conversation will be over.

@susansobel3571

7 ай бұрын

And you've made my point. I'm glad I've been OPEN in my life to include more than my family and childhood friends into my circle. The world is full of fun and interesting people.

I love Susan. That's really a Neapolitan way to tell things, straight to the point!😊

@TheMovementHub

10 күн бұрын

I agree. She is so lovely in person too

If migrants would try harder and focus on our language here first, I think they would be accepted and invited more quickly... but that's my opinion, I want to speak Dutch with my friends and family at home

@angelbonilla2255

6 ай бұрын

Do they have to be fluent to pass Your threshold?

@m3talHalide-rt2fz

6 ай бұрын

@@angelbonilla2255 its about enjoyment. its not about exclusion, but rather that without easy communication it can be hard to easily get past awkwardness. theres a little bit of effort but with social stuff we usually gravitate towards the things we know we like. its more that language helps get through a natural tendency towards entrenchment, or be a barrier that adds anxiety.

@8alakai8

6 ай бұрын

like in amsterdam if people try and speak dutch the duttch person will just speak englisch some of my friends have this they understand it perfect only have a accent when speaking i have to tell the person no stop speak dutch he wants to learn and he understand everything and even in my friend groubs tthere was a guy living here for 10 years from england and he took dutch lessons could speak dutch but think it took us more then a year to star speaking dutch when he was around.and we would only speak englisch if he was around even when not ttalking directly to him so they would not feel left out and would not tthink we are talking abouth them

Speaking about what happens in Amsterdam, the lady told the truth, generally speaking. Naturally, there are exceptions, but in this case, we are discussing the norm. Regarding the norm, the lady is correct. Typically, expats are treated with kindness. This kindness is owed to them as a "human resource" (not to be confused with the normal kindness one should have towards a fellow human being). This kindness exists between a customer and a seller, among neighbors (following the rules of good neighborliness), and among coworkers. That's all. This should not be confused with the spontaneous kindness between human beings. This aspect is entirely unknown. So, when the interviewed lady says, "I'm sad because they miss the opportunity to meet interesting people," unfortunately, she hasn't fully grasped the concept of a "expat human resource in Nl." They are not inclined to have personal relationships with "human resources" that, in one way or another, contribute to the financial turnover in the Netherlands. That's why they don't care about "getting to know interesting people." They care about making money. Indeed, it is exclusively about this. One must regard the majority of the Dutch as "merchants." Emotions are lacking precisely because there is a disinterest in this aspect. The predominant perspective is one of pragmatic commerce, where interpersonal connections are primarily viewed through an economic lens. The emotional dimension is subdued, overshadowed by the overarching focus on financial transactions and gains. In this context, the term "human resource" encapsulates the pragmatic approach, emphasizing individuals as contributors to the economic machinery rather than fostering emotional or personal connections. This orientation towards commerce and financial pursuits tends to overshadow the potential for deeper, more emotionally resonant interactions. It is a perspective shaped by a pragmatic, transactional mindset, where the pursuit of financial gain takes precedence over the cultivation of personal relationships. The paradox (and the lack of intellectual honesty) arises when these Dutch individuals unabashedly deny this "modus operandi" . However, this phenomenon may also be intricately connected to the prevailing materialism. Admitting this deficit could potentially lead to a decrease in expatriates, resulting in reduced earnings. Having lived in Amsterdam since 2010, I've experienced 13 years of complete emotional detachment. Perhaps one or two Dutch individuals serve as exceptions. It is surreal to find, after 13 years of residence, only two Dutch people with even a minimal inclination for instinctive empathy. This underscores the intricate interplay between economic considerations, social dynamics, and the challenging landscape of emotional connections in the context of Amsterdam's cultural milieu. G. (Musician) // Tekst in het Nederlands (gericht aan degenen die, door reageren, wellicht zouden kunnen polemiseren omdat de opmerking in het Engels is geformuleerd). Over wat er in Amsterdam gebeurt, spreekt de dame over het algemeen de waarheid. Natuurlijk zijn er uitzonderingen, maar in dit geval bespreken we de norm. Wat betreft de norm heeft de dame gelijk. Over het algemeen worden expats met vriendelijkheid behandeld. Deze vriendelijkheid komt voort uit het feit dat ze worden beschouwd als een "human resource" (niet te verwarren met de normale vriendelijkheid die men zou moeten tonen aan een "human being"). Deze vriendelijkheid bestaat tussen klant en verkoper, tussen buren (in overeenstemming met de regels van goed nabuurschap) en tussen collega's. Dat is alles. Dit moet niet verward worden met de spontane vriendelijkheid tussen mensen. Dit aspect is hier volledig onbekend. Dus, wanneer de geïnterviewde dame zegt: ""I'm sorry because they miss the opportunity to meet interesting people", heeft ze helaas het concept van een "expat human resource in NL" niet volledig begrepen. Ze hebben geen neiging tot persoonlijke relaties met "human resources" die op de een of andere manier bijdragen aan de financiële omzet in Nederland. Daarom maakt het hen niet uit om "interessante mensen te leren kennen." Ze geven om geld verdienen. Het draait inderdaad exclusief om dit. Men moet de meerderheid van de Nederlanders beschouwen als "handelaren." Emoties ontbreken precies omdat er geen interesse is in dit aspect. De overheersende perspectief is er een van pragmatische handel, waar interpersoonlijke verbindingen voornamelijk worden bekeken door een economische lens. De emotionele dimensie wordt onderdrukt, overschaduwd door de algehele focus op financiële transacties en winst. In deze context omvat de term "human resource" de pragmatische benadering, waarbij individuen worden benadrukt als bijdragers aan de economische machine, in plaats van het bevorderen van emotionele of persoonlijke verbindingen. Deze oriëntatie op handel en financiële activiteiten werpt een schaduw over het potentieel voor diepere, meer emotioneel resonerende interacties. Het is een perspectief gevormd door een pragmatische, transactionele mindset, waarbij het streven naar financieel gewin voorrang heeft op het cultiveren van persoonlijke relaties. Het paradox (en het gebrek aan intellectuele eerlijkheid) doet zich voor wanneer deze individuen deze «modus operandi» schaamteloos ontkennen. Dit fenomeen kan echter ook nauw verbonden zijn met het heersende materialisme. Het toegeven van dit tekort zou mogelijk kunnen leiden tot een afname van expats, met als gevolg verminderde inkomsten. Sinds 2010 woonachtig in Amsterdam, heb je 13 jaar volledige emotionele afstand ervaren. Misschien dienen één of twee Nederlandse individuen als uitzonderingen. Het is surrealistisch om, na 13 jaar verblijf, slechts twee Nederlandse mensen te vinden met zelfs een minimale neiging tot instinctieve empathie. Dit benadrukt het ingewikkelde samenspel tussen economische overwegingen, sociale dynamiek en het uitdagende landschap van emotionele verbindingen in de context van de culturele omgeving van Amsterdam. G. (Muzikant)

@charlyvanbuuren2947

7 ай бұрын

Tja Amsterdam...

@hanslagewaard5083

6 ай бұрын

It's interesting to see what nonsense people come up with to deal with the fact that they're probably not very likable.

@gregorjcocco

6 ай бұрын

@@hanslagewaard5083 Goedemorgen, mijn excuses maar ik begrijp niet als uw antwoord aan mij gericht is of aan de dame die in de video spreekt. Het spijt me hoe dan ook te constateren dat uw verklaring geen argumenten bevat en daarom inhoudsloos is. Ik ben er echter vrijwel zeker van dat u niet tot de Nederlandse ‘uitzonderingen’ behoort waarover ik in mijn bericht sprak. Desalniettemin sta ik open voor discussie en argumentatie als u verder wilt gaan. Fijne dag verder! [ENG] Good morning, I apologize, but I don't understand if your response is directed to me or to the lady speaking in the video. Nevertheless, I regret to note that your statement lacks substantiation and is thus void. I am almost certain that you are not one of the Dutch 'exceptions' that I mentioned in my message. However, I am open to discussing and providing arguments if you wish to delve further. Have a great day!

@hanslagewaard5083

6 ай бұрын

@@gregorjcocco Thanks, but no thanks. There was a reason for the lack of arguments. Have a nice day.

@gregorjcocco

6 ай бұрын

@@hanslagewaard5083 the typical answer I was waiting for. I was sure of it (and I won a bet). Thank you ! Good day!

Even though most of us are fluent in English, many still need to put significant effort to speak it. Especially people that are not exposed to - or required to speak English on a daily basis. At the same time it is considered rude to speak Dutch among friends when there is one that does not speak Dutch. Everyone would feel obliged to speak English. Given the effort some have to do for that, especially in social hangouts where they prefer to relax or even gossip, they will commonly prevent that. Often not even for themselves, but for other friends that they don't want to put is such a situation. Therefor the best thing to do is learn the language. Second best is to hang out 1-on-1.

Not only start trying to speak Dutch but also join clubs, we have thousands of them. Invite us at home for coffee or your neighbours for a barbecue. And for the next soccer match make some Bitterballen with Mosterd and serve them. Just be bold and call it entrance fee. I bet the get a chair for you. Next time they will invite you because now they know you want to be in their club. You have to be direct with us. Good luck, you are a nice Lady and don’t give up so easily.😊 Be bold.

This is actually also the case among the Dutch. Those Circles you are talking about are circles of friends and acquaintances that we grew up with. Others (including us) don't get through that circle. Unless you are part of their social life, such as work, school, family, sports clubs, etc., etc., neighbors are sometimes included, if the children get along, otherwise not, then we only say hello in a friendly way. So good advice: join a sports club as a team. And you need to speak the language. Otherwise, you will continue to present yourself as an outsider. Groeten een landgenoot.

A few things. One she lives in Amsterdam which does not equate to the Netherlands. Two: Dutch cuisine isn't known for its flavour etc, but it is not what she described. If we were like that we would look more like Americans... If you want to be included here you need to join in. In the community. Go to clubs where you work together, be proficient in Dutch (again). Various collegues of mine have moved or came from other places (within The NEtherlands) and became friends with me and many others. I can mention quite a few. But they do not live in Amsterdam and they include themselves.

Well, as others have said, language is key. An "expat" who knows the language well will definitely have the chance to have a better experience. As others have said here, most Dutch people speak English, but communicating in your native language is important, especially for the special kind of understatement and humour that is built into the language. But there is more: the centre of Amsterdam is about the worst place in the Netherlands to socialise. I am a native of Amsterdam myself, and even as a native I had the feeling that social contact there was always difficult. I left the Netherlands in the 1990s and I feel that the situation has only got worse since then. Above all, I notice how busy people are. The work during the day is demanding, the agendas are always overloaded.

From my experience Dutch people stick to making friends early in life who become sort of family. Outside this circle there’s simply not a lot of free time to invest further. Perhaps an avenue would be at sports clubs or hobby groups. Oh and about bitterballen. That’s not a dish. It’s a snack, a bite to eat while drinking beer preferably. :)

By not speaking Dutch you exclude yourself.

Learn Dutch. It's logic that you blend in a crowd if you can speak the same language otherwise you stay mute on the side, uncomfortable for both sides. The Dutch have their own language under each other, it's called Dutch. Your Dutch and expat friends take the trouble to speak English with you but when they take you in their circles you can not expect them to all change to English if they are speaking with each other and when you don't understand them it's very hard to be included in a conversation. At that moment it can become awkward.

I wonder where Susan is from in the States. I’m from Florida and Louisiana and never had problems making friends and being invited places in the south. Then I moved to Chicago, where everyone is nice enough, but I never get invited anywhere and have no friends. It may be a southern thing to include people 🤷🏼‍♀️

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

I appreciate you sharing your experience, and I'm sorry to hear that making connections in Chicago has been challenging. It's interesting how regional dynamics can vary. Susan is originally from Las Vegas, and I can confirm that she is very hospitable and open herself.

@susansobel3571

7 ай бұрын

Las Vegas

@moneymakermike6189

6 ай бұрын

Maybe watch the video as it is clearly stated.

Although I understand your problem, I don't think it is a problem specific to expats like you. Not every Dutch person has a large circle of friends. If you want to belong somewhere or make new friends, you will have to do something, because no one knows who you are and what you want. In a small community, this will often happen sooner and easier than in a large, more anonymous community. Depending on your interests, you could join a club. You can always try to build your circle of friends through work or the internet. No one knows that you are looking for friends or which friends. The initiative lies primarily with you. If you do nothing or too little, it will never amount to anything. Don't forget that most people have their own family and hardly any friends, simply because they don't have the need or time for that. Just take the initiative, because just waiting for third parties is like waiting for the main prize of a lottery. Finally, my comment to you, perhaps as a first step. Why don't you tell a little more about yourself, your interests, and what you are looking for particularly in your blog? Give it a try.

I’m British and I have always found the Dutch to be pretty friendly but I just want to make some comments perhaps a bit random. 1 Americans by and large are really friendly. It’s pretty easy to strike up a conversation in the states and even make significant social contact. It probably isn’t about life long friendship but basically the Americans are programmed to be friendly and open to new experience. This is a generalisation and of course not so true of NYC or San Francisco where life is more about work and commuting to work and all of that. It’s not just North Americans. Latin America is similar in this respect. 2 I lived in Buenos Aires for a while and my landlady there told me that she went to the Netherlands for a year or so when she was a young woman. To my surprise she absolutely hated it! She was living in a suburb, and the kind of social life she was used to just was a complete non starter. She complained that Dutch people would invite her for coffee. So she would go, have maybe 2 cups of coffee and that would be it. As far as I could glean that was more or less the extent of her social life in Holland. Seems odd because she would have been a young attractive Latin American babe. Anyway that was about the extent of her story about the Netherlands. My take on this is that the Dutch are unusually organised people with a tendency to plan their days. So a Dutch person might very well invite you, plan to spend and hour with you before moving in to another activity. This mode of living will leave all Americans Latin or North Americans totally perplexed. 3 I met an American lady who lived in Holland a few years. I met her after she moved to London. She left the Netherlands because in her own words the Dutch tendency to plan everything down to the last detail plus a social requirement to get everyone to agree to gain consensus was driving her crazy. She found life in London much easier albeit vastly more disorganised! 4 the Dutch have a reputation as easy going left leaning liberals and Holland is a country where you can smoke dope on the streets with impunity etc. but while that does fly here and there more typically the Dutch are essentially conservative, hard working, down to earth and conventional. They can also be comically materialistic. They seem to put great store in buying a lot of very nice stuff and basically showing it off. It’s quite funny and very Dutch. You don’t really see this in say France or Germany. 5 for me personally I have always found the Dutch to be almost absurdly helpful and kind. Sure they may not always be super friendly but I live in the south of England where the vibe is fairly similar as it is in most of Northern Europe. Holland is probably super tough to integrate into because obviously you need to learn the language but how on earth do you do that when 89% of them speak English very competently indeed! Anyway all said and done Holland is a likeable country, wealthy and of course very well organised!

@TheMovementHub

6 ай бұрын

Your comments are much appreciated :)

When you start living in the Netherlands and you do want to make dutch friends, you have to learn the language. We don't like to speak English or any other language all the time.

Het is ongastvrij om iemand uit te nodigen die Engels spreekt en dan als groep Nederlands praten. Ik denk dat dat de reden is. In groepsverband praat men het liefst Nederlands.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for the insight! It seems like, to ensure everyone feels included and can follow the conversation, there might be a tendency to avoid inviting non-Dutch speakers. Appreciate your perspective!

@A909GA

7 ай бұрын

Ja, Nederlanders zeggen dat graag. Maar uit mijn ervaring en die van mijn buitenlandse vrienden blijkt dat Nederlands spreken niets verandert in de relatie met Nederlanders. Bovendien zou het gastvrij zijn als Nederlanders daadwerkelijk buitenlanders uitnodigen in hun groepen terwijl ze alleen Nederlands spreken, omdat het moeilijk is om de taal te oefenen. Verkopers of obers schakelen vaak over naar het Engels wanneer ze een buitenlands accent horen, waardoor ik meestal Nederlands spreek en een Nederlander Engels spreekt. Trouwens, ik spreek alleen Nederlands met mijn buitenlandse vrienden, ook al spreken we allemaal Engels, omdat er niemand anders is om Nederlands tegen te spreken.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

What you say is very interesting, as it resonates with what many interviewees report about trying to integrate. The tendency for others to switch to English upon hearing an accent does present a challenge in language learning. I will actually publish some interviews soon where expats speak about that.

@gregorjcocco

7 ай бұрын

@@TheMovementHub What sense does it make to speak Dutch to convey emotions within a context where emotions are insufficient? However, it is true that in most Dutch companies, especially the larger ones, the work environment is comfortably conducted in English. The switch between the Dutch and English languages occurs in these work contexts almost naturally and automatically. But in this case, we are dealing with communication in the workplace and not in the social and empathetic relational one. A fundamental human factor should be emphasized: To encourage a human being to speak the language of the hosting country, it is necessary for this human being to be enthusiastic about the social context or, at the very least, to be treated as a human being on an emotional and interpersonal level. Throughout the world, interpersonal connections go beyond "koetjes en kalfjes" It is not necessary to study a language only to end up discussing the weather or "koetjes en kalfjes" Interpersonal relationships are something deep. With the absence of this depth, the expat, as they realize this Dutch emotional deficit, gradually leaves the study of the Dutch language. At the same time, they will continue to speak English because, thanks to English, they can navigate both the professional and more strictly human aspects. Unfortunately, for the Dutch (not for the expat), this will be done with other expats from around the world. G.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for taking so much time to let me know your thoughts on this topic as someone who has lived in the Netherlands for 13 years now. You raise a very valid point, that there is not enough encouragement for expats to learn the language, and hence the motivation can get lost. I have also read your other comment, and would like to let it open, so that other people can engage in that discussion. And welcome to this channel.

Exactly !! Same experience for decades already .Same for some friends ,German/Austrian. My dutch is perfect +german. english

@TheMovementHub

6 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing

Misschien Nederlands spreken. I have the same living in Poland. And my Polish will never be fluent enough, so I will keep this...........

@TheMovementHub

5 ай бұрын

Very understandable. And learning Polish is not easy at all.

For one, I think there is a difference between the "posh" city center and "hip" neighborhood people and the normal people in Amsterdam, who live outside those kind of neighborhoods. Second, we're not all the same. I LOVE to meet new people and have conversations with them, invite them at my home etc etc and I'm born and raised in Amsterdam. Not in those "posh" and "hip" neighborhoods though. Go outside the city center, explore cafe's in the other neighborhoods, the less touristy, less posh or hip neighborhoods and you will find the REAL Amsterdammers who love to invite you in ... Would love to meet you but hey ho ...

@TheMovementHub

6 ай бұрын

I totally agree with you. There are of course individual differences and many people do not fit the 'stereotypes'. I.e. although the Dutch (on average) value punctuality, I have met Dutch individuals who could not care less. There are many examples. But also there are reasons why such stereotypes evolve. The average Dutch values punctuality much more than the average Mexican, which then becomes a cultural difference, even though many people diverge from that "norm". I am sure there are many Mexicans who place importance on punctuality, but this does not exclude a cultural difference in that respect. Regarding your last sentence, I could connect you if you like, and I appreciate your comment :).

@AnaryaVhargon

6 ай бұрын

@@TheMovementHub How do you want me to connect? I can send an e-mail?

@TheMovementHub

6 ай бұрын

Yes, an E-Mail would be great.

This is good, if our culture and people are to survive this onslaught of endless immigration this must stay this way.

Interesting honest lady.

@TheMovementHub

6 ай бұрын

She is a real sweetheart

I can understand it's difficult to make friends in Amsterdam. Dutch people tend to make there group of friends for live in the first 30 years of their life. And stick to them most of their lives. New friends will come and old ones will disapear, but for many life revolves around this group of friends and family. After their studies and getting setteled many will return to the place (or the big city close by) where they grew up and will maintain this group. And when they settle in a new town, most friends woun't live futher away than an hour by car. And one will join a sports club, a hobby club or a choir, to name a few, just to get to know the people around you. I grew up in a town in Gelderland and lived and worked there for 45 years. I met my husband from the same town and we married. We are a gay couple and never had any problems dispite the Christian nature of the town. Most of are friends are straight. After 45 years we moved to Almere for work. Almere is ofcorse a new town and very open, because most people come from outside, so you might think you will make lost of new friends. But you don't due to the fact that you mainly stick to the circle you already had. After 16 years we moved back to our hometown and it was if we never have been away for so long. From all the new people we met over the years in Almere, only two couples of friends are still important to us. But they are intergrated in our cirlce of friends, so we still meet each other at all kinds of occasions. Looking at how it worked for me I can understand that for expats in Amsterdam its almost impossible to build a circle of Dutch friends. The Dutch just tend not to invest much effort in making new friends it seems.

@TheMovementHub

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment, coming from a Dutch perspective and sharing your personal experiences. It's insightful to hear your observations, and it resonates with the challenges that expats may encounter in building connections in Amsterdam. Your openness is truly appreciated!

@christi6934

21 күн бұрын

I share this view. Also for Dutch people it is very difficult to make new friends and to move beyond superficial niceties. There is a reason there are so many lonely people here😢.

Dutch people do not invest in you .That after many years you can.t speak 3 languages .You are not doing enough .This intervieuw in Englisch is the problem.

If you don't want to adapt and speak the language, you have to leave.

Stop whining.

Not very amusing to hear the need of having to express this vieuw. I feel embarressed to be honest, being Dutch that is. Heel ongemakkelijk.