A fly in a picture is usually either a joke (a type of trompe l'oeil to trick the viewer, just as mentioned in the video), or an indication that the sitter has already passed away and it is a remebrance piece. Every details matters in old master art, so, in connection with the forget-me-nots in her hand here, it may well be a post-humous portrait.

@CherriesJubilee

2 жыл бұрын

This was my thought too.

@georgoussnowsaintfullysinn9975

8 ай бұрын

Thats great obviously i must be dead. Thanks so much. Who said that? Ghost in the machine.... Ooooowwwwooooooowwwoooo

@neuroticnation144

8 ай бұрын

Thank you for filling in the picture for us! It actually makes a lot of sense, and is a charming ( albeit morbid ) story.

@T-aka-T

7 ай бұрын

Or perhaps they are Mike Pence. 😏

@H-Vox

7 ай бұрын

​@@CherriesJubileethanks

It is a memento mori. The flowers are Forget-me-not which held a strong symbolism in Northern Europe and indeed elsewhere as a flower of both love and mourning. Flies swarm around dead things, a connection which nobody in the period would fail to make. Northern European painting, particularly Netherlandish and by extension German painting is heavy on symbolism. The fly lands on the beautiful chaperon or caul to remind the viewer that here, too, death will come to mar the beauty and undermine the pride in earthly things. Or something.

@micreativeartsnosh9927

2 жыл бұрын

I thought the same thing👍🙂

@actixtube

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed - it's obviously about the inevitability of death, even of somebody so well dressed and elegant.

@idcook

2 жыл бұрын

I find it interesting that there’s no suggestion of a stronger connection to Prince Albert and the queen. Perhaps a revered distant relative or beloved nanny? It seems unlikely that he would collect AND gift the painting as a lark. Then for the queen to gift it to 'the nation?' Did the want her to be gazed upon by all for an eternity? To be given a place virtually equal to their own? All of those suggests a very strong personal connection to the subject.

@randomchipfat937

2 жыл бұрын

Thankyou, beautifully put.

@stinew358

2 жыл бұрын

I also see "born last name" in northern European records where the woman has come from a noble family which gives the husband additional land or title.

I based a college thesis on this painting 40 years ago and am enlightened to see others share some of the same conclusions. Before the Age of the Internet, it was not the prevailing theory. You too can also solve the riddle. The answer is a few lines below. Consider the state of her lips, is it a smile or a smirk? The bottom ring on her right hand which the artist has made most prominent, is a puzzle piece. The Forget Me Not flower implies just that. Look carefully at her hands and fingernails. Answer: She is dead. By my fading memory of a Thesis 40 years ago - From her name, attire, and the garnet stone on her ring, we can surmise that she was an Ashkenazi Jew of the Hofner financial family, age - mid to late thirties and born in the month of January sometime in the 13th Century. Pinky rings symbolized nobility at the time and titles were sometimes granted to bankers, presumably and especially some members of the Hofner family who greatly financed the formation of early Germany. Having three titles, she would have had considerable wealth, social connections and influence, and likely commissioned the painting herself while nearing death.

@a27680

8 ай бұрын

I was thinking the exact same thing about her, after looking at her fingernails. A bit dirty. For someone so beautifully and immaculately dressed and groomed, that's unusual. The fly cleared the doubt; it came chasing the stench of the slowly rotting dead body!

@jj1106

8 ай бұрын

Awesome!! Thanks for sharing

@biancanapoles1725

8 ай бұрын

If she was born in the 13th Century that would mean she was born in the 1200's. So someone commissioned a painting, in the 1470's, of a woman who had been dead at least 160+ years before?

@sherrillsturm7240

7 ай бұрын

Revisiting this vid after a long time, I agree with the idea this is a memorial painting. A person of such high standing would not have dirty and rough fingernails, especially for a portrait sitting. When you think of it, how is the headdress held up if she is vertical? But the giveaway is the fly, for obvious reasons. Her skin is extremely pale, as are her lips and eyes, also. Finally, "Forget-me-nots", signal this is a remembrance. The rate of childbirth death is extremely high due to unsanitary conditions, and her youth suggests perhaps pregnancy or childbirth caused her death.

@MarciRaney-tt8ev

7 ай бұрын

Thank you . Fascinating

Also, the fly is somewhat too large to be IN the painting- compared to the woman- but it's the correct size to look as if it's ON the painting.

I'm surprised you didn't also mention that she is resting her hand on the picture frame. Thats more interesting to me than the fly.

I love the amount of mirth our guide to this portrait has in describing this clever joke on the viewer. I originally thought it was a memeto-mori kind of thing, either a commentary from the artist, or the sitter/commissioner to show themselves as humble. BUT! The thing that sticks out to me is that the fly isn't drawn to the scale of the sitter- it's drawn to the scale of us, the viewer, and the painting as an object! The shadows it casts are also like on the flat surface of the painting, and not her headdress. This definitely is some great trompe l'oeil, hadn't even thought of how it could be bragging rights of the artist, or of the family having it in their home, that they could have a painting done with such skill and realism. I like to think it was a cheeky joke that they knew was doing double-duty, and would age well - while alive, she could delight in having people fret, thinking there was a fly there, while also encouraging them to marvel at the realism, and once she died, it would serve as a memorial for this moment captured in time.

@johannfer7073

8 ай бұрын

Bro this is the best and most shocking observation so far

I was once in the national gallery and walked into a room and saw an elderly gentleman looking into the room through a small window. My mistake, it was a portrait of a Dutch gentleman by Rembrandt. I was fooled momentarily by the excellent wet reflection that the artist had painted in the gentleman's eyes.

I love her enthusiasm the way she described the details it’s just wonderful to see someone so passionate about her work preserving and sharing history with all of us

I believe the artist to be Albrecht Durer. It bears a strong resemblance to his portrait of Barbara Durer. which was his mother. Her maiden name was Holfer. As mentioned prior in this thread, the fly and Forget-Me--Nots would point to a rememberance painting of his mother.

@samsmom1491

8 ай бұрын

I am going to respectfully disagree with you on the artist. There is a lack of depth and character, an absence of natural variations of color and shadow to the face that is apparent in AD's work.

@MarinaAleyeva

8 ай бұрын

Durer was born in 1471.

@gerardjagroo

8 ай бұрын

It really does look like Dürer.

Traditionally if a fly is painted near a person, or a even more so, near a person's head it is a harbinger of death. And with the Forget-me-not flowers, means she wishes not to be forgotten after her death.

Whether the painting was commissioned as a remembrance of her or by her, the result is a success. I won't soon forget her.

What a fascinating subject and what an engaging speaker! In just a few minutes she managed to share such an appreciation for all the tiny details in the painting, and the context. Glad I stumbled upon this.

commissioned by her father after her early death to forget her not. The fly represents decay but also the fleeting moment it rests on her headdress reflects our fleeting lives

I get the impression this young woman has been recently widowed. The black dress, the white hat (like a nun), the bittersweet expression, the forget-me-nots and the fly all convey a sense of transience of existence.

i also believe she's already passed before this painting. the way her white fabric is depicted looks like it is laying flat as she is lying down. plus the color of her fingernails & the forget me nots. plus, of course, the fly. i think it is beautiful.

I saw this painting in person. All I know is that the fly made me smile.

I saw this when I visited the gallery 45 years ago. It blew me away. I'm so happy to find this video!

Ms. Whitlum-Cooper is the real star here -- her passion and excitement and humor shine and make this a delightful vignette into 15th C. life and art.

Let me just say that this artist is incredible. Your close-ups of the canvas reveal amazing detail. Even the fly looks real!!

I'd love to visit an art gallery with this lady, so she could point out details, and come up with theories, that I hadn't even noticed/thought about.

So grateful to the National Gallery for these on line art " lessons".Thank you so much!

I clicked on it thinking it was going to be a lecture on death and mortality. Not so; we get a story of artist as rock god, artist at the top of his game, artist in charge, artist of eminence, artist so expensive and understood, he gets to play a joke on the viewer and the portrait owners friends and family. And the sitter just loves that he does that. What a brilliant explanation. Well curated and well understood. This changes everything. Very smartly done. Much appreciated.

Make more of these short and educational videos, please. I couldn’t stop watching this one!

Kudos to Francesca WC for sharing her informed viewpoint so charmingly. Solid scholarship.

It’s kinda cool how the fly kinda completes the painting in a sense. Without it it would just be a really good painting of a lady, but still just a painting. But with the fly it becomes so unique. Same with Mona Lisa, if her expression was clear it would still be a great painting but a single detail causes so much discussion

Thank you! Fascinating! Lots of comments below about the symbolism of the fly. I love Francesca's take on it, and I also think the fly to likely be a comment on morality. But a point that I don't think has been made yet is that, aesthetically, the painting seems to need something in that spot. Blot the fly out with your thumb, or something, and the composition just doesn't work so well. It's unbalanced. And there's a sea of white that might have just looked like a sea of white--instead of white cloth--without something there to fix the eye a focal point. I'd be interested to see if anyone agrees with me.

@manthasagittarius1

8 ай бұрын

I like this thinking. See if you find the fly making a third point of a triangle, for example, with her eyes and mouth. Or just a focal point. You remind me of the story told of JMW Turner, who discovered that someone had pasted a small animal onto one of his great luminous paintings on a crucial focal point, even as it was hanging in a gallery; and when he found it, he merely moved it a bit, and then touched it with black paint and let it stand. This might well be an additional purpose for the fly in this portrait, together with any symbolism that was intended.

Totally different theory. This woman posed for her portrait for days or weeks. As it neared completion, she fell ill or suffered an injury or accident. In short, she died. The forget-me-not, the fly, both symbols that can be associated with death.

I love the way you present it Ms….that is lovely ❤

Really good presentation , I love how open her interpretation is . Not giving a strong opinion in the way she could have wanted us to think as many art historian tend to do . I hope she will talk about more paintings in the future on your YT channel . Thank you .

It seems to me that the fly received the best of the artist's attention. It is marvelously detailed.

What a lovely presentation!! Gosh, I could listen to this knowledgeable speaker for hours. Such a sweet relief from the truly appalling narrative voices on most KZread videos. Thank you!

Very well narated, felt like going back 20 years and being a student once again. Thank you.

It seems pretty obvious to me that reason for the fly is that she is dead and it's a memorial portrait hence the forget-me-nots

I used to draw flies on desks at school, and I got so good at it, people tried to shoo them away or smash them. That and a portrait from a banknote. I could never draw anything else.

What a fascinating masterpiece. She is eloquent and I love her mysterious/whimsical vibes when explaining. It was so engaging

I’m impressed with the details. Not only of the fly but it’s shadow too.

This was a really great talk by Francesca. That painting is absolutely incredible. It's pretty wild that no one knows who the artist is!

The best Docent/Art Expert & explanation ever. I hope to see this when I am London next. Thank you

Oh to be gifted in this way! To be able to capture everything that is in this painting would be incredible. Too, the fly draws attention to the painting. It does not escape anybody who enters the room.

I loved this video. Thank you for sharing all the understanding of paintings to bring the masterpiece to life

There’s nothing I hated as much as when I had to do a semester studying art history and technic but somehow this was genuinely interesting

Art history classes were my favorite! Thanks for remaining true to your craft as an art historian. 🥰

I could listen to the young lady for hours. Thank you. Going to find more of these.

I think this adds so much intrigue to this painting. They knew what they were doing. No one would pay a fraction of attention to this painting (as fantastic as it is!) if that fly weren't there. It makes you wonder, and this very picture sparked an interest in art I didn't have before. Amazing!!!

I'm mostly interested in what the headdress is supposed to be. Does anyone happen to know? It's a truly bizarre shape that I have to assume was painted accurately given how detailed the whole piece is, including the rather realistic fly.

My absolute favorite place in the world is the national gallery in London. I spent many hours of my youth in that museum absorbing British history and superb art.

I absolutely loved this video! I think this is one of the beauties of the Internet is that we can experience beautiful art and view it from any place in the world and also listen to lectures of people discussing it in detail. Plus we can get close-ups on those details. Thank you so much!

The fly could also be a Memento mori, a Vanitas symbol.

These are my favorite kind of paintings. The works done by masters who bring there pictures to life.

And she has not been forgotten...😊

I’m just blown away with that painting. I mean WOW.

Such a pleasantly civilized discussion here. It is so soothing to know that there are still people who live, and value art as such. Pure and wonderful. Thank you for opportunity to read how old is engaging Cummins here.

You all have missed the point. It’s not a picture of a lady with a fly on her head, no it is a picture of a fly with a lady by it.

I’m normally not that impressed with very old paintings but wow I’ve got to say I’m pretty impressed by this one you made it real for me

Is there a way to verify if the fly is contemporary with the original painting, or possibly added later?

What a wonderful story. I love the way you have analyzed the painting and that peculiar fly. Thanks for posting.

Flies can also be a symbol of time to move elsewhere. When fly season starts in late spring, it's good to move location to a "better place" away from the pests. Perhaps it's a message, along with the sprig of forget-me-not, that she moved on from life to a better place when in "late spring" of her youth. Or, she is remembering someone else who did.

I remember coming across this painting as a young person visiting the museum. It made me so excited and happy. I was so thrilled to see this video. Thank you!

i like drawing, painting realistic and I too get rewarded by spotting every little detail of artist's meticulous work :)

Not sure why the video doesn't mention the following. This is a fairly common _trompe-l'oeil_ called _musca depicta_ (literally "painted fly"); such can be found on a few different well-known pieces, notably "Portrait of a Carthusian". It's purpose is largely as described in the video, to trick the viewer or be whimsical.

Thank you Francesca! The whole deal was beautifully explained...

Thank you for this beautiful presentation of what art portrays.

I think the explanation I like best is the one suggested by Ms. Whitlum-Cooper. The fly is not to scale with the portrait but with the observer's world. It is an inside joke shared by the painter and the person who commissioned it.

What was the German word for "fly" at the time? Because it seems that so often something appearing in a picture is a reference to someone's name, or a family symbol. Perhaps she married into a family that used the housefly as its symbol, so the artist also included her family of origin at the top to clarify.

@colleenhonderich1598

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting thought.

Absolutely wonderful presentation, could listen to her talk about art for hours!

Between the fly and the forget me nots, I believe she has passed and that's why this painting was commissioned

What a wonderful presenter! Thank you so much - I would never have guessed that all of that information could be derived from what appears to be a simple portrait. So enlightening and made me want to learn more.

What a wonderful presentation. It's funny, when I first saw the fly, and then heard the flowers were forget-me-nots, I jumped to the conclusion that this was a memorial painting of a much loved deceased woman. I much prefer Ms. Whitlum-Cooper's conclusion though, and hope it is the correct one!

@MrRufusRToyota

2 жыл бұрын

I believe your initial interpretation is the correct one. Additionally, it’s hard to imagine that a wealthy family would pay for an expensive portrait, the subject would wear her finest clothes, sit innumerable times, for a portrait painted to record the family’s success and position in the community, and then they would agree to add a fly as the painter’s joke shows a lack of understanding of the subject, in my opinion.

@paulaschroen3954

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe the portrait was commissioned by family member who loved her, and she'd married I to a good enough family, but they didn't really care as much as her own family, or something, maybe even just didn't have a sense of humor. Not pretending to make a big deal. One thing peculiar about portraits, before cameras,is not just the expense, but the skill, clothes, all based on other values.

That was one of the best descriptions of a painting I've ever heard. Interesting and compelling. Thank you for this video! And after reading all the comments, I wish we could know the artist's true intention. But I suppose good art makes you think without telling you what to think

This was such a cute interesting video. I was expecting some king of history about flys on paintings but ended up appreciating the act of looking closer and to give it time for a painting to show me what it has to offer

What a wonderfully, passionate presenter. She truly understands the depths of these great works of art. 🙏

Interesting that a art curator would not consider the fly a vanitas symbol, especially when she is also holding a forget-me-not. It seems obvious to me that she has died.

@travismiller5548

2 жыл бұрын

or perhaps she was just being trolled

I agree with what you say. At the same time, I note that the fly is positioned diagonally across from the forget-me-nots, and I wonder whether the artist has in mind an implicit commentary? The fly, by its nature, is flighty, here now gone in an instant. The forget-me-nots speak to a desire to combat transience (do not forget me, oh, my darling, as the song goes). The inclusion of the fly certainly is a trick of verisimilitude, as you suggest, but it also carries a message about impermanence and reinforces the import of the flowers.

Bravo to our docent! Takes a painting apart and puts it back together so gently and lovingly! THANK YOU! PLEASE DO MORE!!!!

Such a wonderful video! I love the idea that she had an offbeat sense of humor and wanted to trick the people who would see her painting. Thank you for sharing her with us

Gosh, I could listen to her talk all day! Passionate and informative. Great video!

In ancient Egypt the fly was associated with rebirth and the afterlife. Together with the Forget Me Nots I’d interpret this painting as a memorial portrait.

Thank you for the art history lesson. The skill was truly spectacular with so many of those painters long ago

Francesca, you are an incredible detective of the telling details that will shed light on the tantalizing ‘silence’ of a painting, and you help us interact with it and make us want to find out more. Brava come sempre!

I believe the fly was added later, possibly after the subject who sat for the portrait was deceased. I'm certain the sitter would never have approved of such a thing in the original rendition of her image.

Fascinating I will ponder long on the fly and why. Thank you Francesca beautifully described and it is plain to see your love for this paintiing.

Thank you to the National Gallery for those fantastic presentations. Next time I come and visit I'll stop by the paintings with a better view. Excellent job.

I find her voice very soothing and getting to learn so much is a huge plus! Lovely video.

Fascinating.I had guessed that.I put spiders or ladybirds on mine sometimes ..Beautifully painted and it looks like the artist had a great rapport with the sitter to be able to do this much detail too.It a really great composition too .

When I watched this video three things came to my mind: 1.Hofer is a name that is associated with farming. It essentially means a person who comes from or owns a large farmhouse. 2.Maybe the fly is also a symbol for her past at a farm. Flies are usually abundant in such places. 3.Geborene indicates that her maiden name was Hofer. It means born into but not married into a family. She could have married into a wealthier family. In that case this picture would show her in a process of transition.

The fly is also an important part of the composition, and determines how the viewer's eye moves around the portrait.

Fascinating explanation. Really enjoyed it and learned a lot

This was extremely interesting, and Francesca, you made it so interesting to hear about why there is a fly on her head. Thank you for this vid. xxx

You held my interest the entire time you spoke about the woman with the fly on her head dress. Excellent presentation!

I love how the woman in picture is almost smirking, trying not to laugh. 🤭 would be covering the joke-theory. who knows.. 😁 always very stunning, diving into the details of artworks. ❤️

Assuming the fly isn't some weird form of secret society-type symbolism that's lost in time, it could also be a statement of wealth. She has so much money, she can commission a painting with a fly on it. Sort of like lighting your cigar with $100 bills.

Great presentation, I had never seen this painting before. I love to hear explanation of symbolisms, and how I am drawn to the details.

Was it added in later? I couldn't help but notice that the fly doesn't have the same age cracks in the paint, and there are some white strokes just beneath it that seem to be over the cracks.

How interesting and anyway, I feel that portrait of the fly is impressively executed!

Wonderful explanation- bringing this unknown lady to life 👏

There's a local pottery artist in my area whose trademark is a fly on the handle. I love it ❤️

I look at this picture and think what a craftsman you need to be and what talent you need to have to write it!

What a wonderful fresh presentation. What a beautiful painting, so refined in skill and expression. The trompe- l’œil of the fly for sure reminds us of our fragile earthly existence. How witty!

I just happened across this video and LOVE it! Looking forward to digging further into your videos to see what more I can learn!

i have a question: did people really look like that in real life? i mean, were the artists "distorting" their image to match the standards of beauty at that time? At this time this people could paint already at the genious level, they would be able to perfectly represent what they saw... So, is it perfect? Or is it distorted?