As a tungsten enthusiast (who also owns LEDs), I'll highlight a couple of advantages including a couple that are sometimes overlooked. 1. Perfect color rendition 2. Cost to purchase. At least in the recent past older tungsten fixtures were quite inexpensive as all the young filmmakers ignored it for LEDs. 3. Tungsten is flicker free at ANY shutter speed. This alone made the people in point #2 reconsider tungsten. And it cause quite a run on older lights. 4. Silence. Unlike LEDs, there are no fans. You can put the light inches away from the microphone (minding the heat) and it's dead silent. Imagine trying to run a 600d or 1200d with no fans for 8 hours. 5. The talent can FEEL their marks. Those who do narrative work will kinda get this. You can place a mark on the floor for an actor and if they are very experienced, they might hit it. With LED there is nothing physical for them to feel. With tungsten, they will actually FEEL the warmth on their face when they hit their mark. It's subtle, but after working with some young actors working under tungsten I had one remark that they could "feel where to stop". That stuck with me. 6. Build quality. Mole Richardson and Arri have been tungsten lights for decades. Nearly a century for Mole. Lights built 50 years ago still work perfectly today if they haven't been thrown around too much. I have 20-30 year old tungsten fixtures that are indistinguishable from new. Let's see how some of these current LEDs look and work in 30-50 years. That said, softening tungsten or HMI for that matter, is more expensive and tricky if you want to use stuff like softboxes. Same with gels. So I tend to use LED for convenience, but will use tungsten if I have the power and time. I use tungsten, fluorescent, and LEDs where appropriate. I have used HMI's but don't own any and I don't prefer them unless I need BIG power and I need it at 5600k. We live in an amazing time. So much is available to us. Use what makes sense for your productions. I'm just glad there are younger shooters who still take the time and effort to light!

@cokebottles6919

8 ай бұрын

All good points. I love new LED's, with RGD, low power draw, tiny footprints, and plenty good color rendition, but Tungsten should not be overlooked. Different tools for different situations. I own a kit of tungsten lights, the price makes them easy to justify because I only had to use them a couple times to make up what it would have cost to rent good LED's.

@walmartpimp2

4 ай бұрын

Sir, I want to get sharp shadows that project far from the subject getting hit by light. An example would be Venetian blind shadows hitting someone from across the room. Can I achieve this with an Arri 650W if not Arri 1000W? Your expertise would be much appreciated?

@PerroneFord

4 ай бұрын

@@walmartpimp2 Well how far is "far"? There are two pieces involved in getting sharp shadows 1. A small, focused light source 2. Placing the subject as close as possible to the surface you want the shadows to fall on. A tungsten fresnel does focus the light some. And you are saying here that you you want the subject far away from the wall. In that case, the correct fixture would be a spotlight/projector. There are many of those available. If you search for a Leko light" you will see many. The "ETC Source 4" is extremely popular and there are many used ones on the market. Good luck!

Hi Spenser, btw been following you for a while. Won't get too technical here, but Tungsten will never go out of style because it provides an incredibly high quality spectrum even when gelled to different color temperatures and hues. In fact, I'm actually not a huge fan of HMI if I can avoid it and would even gel Tungsten to Daylight via CTB filter. But the real fun comes exploring subtle things like 1/4 Straw or lower intensity blues. You picked up on that redder hue here and some DPs like to warm it up further with Straw or small strengths of CTO. If working with film you can also get into corrective filtration on the lens to explore a pretty wide variety of interesting looks. Tungsten can lead to great skin tones and also due to it being a hot and hard light you can occasionally get a beautiful subsurface scattering on skin that's often hard to get with things like LED panels. The subtle nuance especially on the highlight of your face shows a lot of the "goodness" found in Tungsten. Fundamentally it what I recommend most DPs to get very familiar first in terms of light. Side note, long, long ago Roger gave me a chunk of advice regarding lighting and other topics. There was a shared love for a good 2K Fresnel, joked for a moment about it being the only light you need. Downsides are indeed power and on bigger projects generators are going to be a required tool. LEDs allow for far less power requirements however. Another great DP with a film background worth looking at regarding controlling Tungsten is Wally Pfister's work or John Schwartzman. Like all modern DPs Roger is tapping into LED more and more, power and setup time is always a consideration, but also he uses them often for creative applications. Congrats on the Komodo. Keep up the good work.

@adeloyearts205

2 жыл бұрын

Excellently said

@retro4078

8 ай бұрын

The sad thing is that technology has drastically progressed within 2 years now. Now we got fixtures like the Amaran 200x S and the Zolar Toilman series producing SSI scores of 90. SSI of 90 is so close that the LEDs are slightly indistinguishable from tungston. So if we're getting to the point where color rendition is the only thing making us hold on to Tungston, then producers already are quickly going to avoid old lamps like the plaug. It's probably already happening for the last production I was on had a storage shelves of mole Richardsons, which the producer said are most likely to never get used again. No hate on Tungston, I love Tungston, but this is the reality in Hollywood.

Roger Deakins uses led lights a lot. And he talks about this a lot on his podcast

@alfonsocornejo844

2 жыл бұрын

@@runaproducoes6400 the must-hear cinema masterclass!!

@duraiarumugam3419

Ай бұрын

@@alfonsocornejo844Can you send that master class session link!?

I’m a DP of over forty years experience and, while I use LEDs mostly these days, I still use tungsten for particular applications. For studio work with product like cars tungsten still cannot be beaten. If I’m on a small shoot without a gaffer I always carry some tungsten. A major problem with LED us that where you using several different units they will not colour match. All tungsten colour match closely and if they differ slightly it’ll be in colour temperature and not magenta/green. Tungsten is also quicker to rig and very flexible. The problem is that gaffers carry less and less tungsten. It cracks me up when I see a row of Skypanels costing tens of thousands of dollars to light a cyc when you used to see the same thing done with a few Blondies costing about a tenth as much, if that. I find that LEDs are, generally , slower to set up. On the other hand , the fact that , on small shoots, you can run off battery and that you can adjust colour temp is, of course , a big advantage.

@danielhuang2488

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting to hear led takes longer to set up. I thought the whole thing about LEDs is convenience. It is lighter so it seems to make sense that it would be easier and faster to set up.

@Privateerspace

2 жыл бұрын

Good comment I'm a Gaffer and I still carry tungens lights 5ks down to dedos, they have a quality that leds can't replicate, of course I have all the leds as well, I'm using the tungsten less and less as the kids these days don't wanna use them

@paulhicks3595

2 жыл бұрын

@@Privateerspace I did a big green screen shoot with a bunch of young computer dudes a few years ago. They were doing car exteriors and I was doing interiors with people with a sort of MoCo rig. It was all tungsten with 5ks, blondes down to Dedos because were trying to get the effect of being in the interior of a moving car. Anyway one of the young guys said it was the first tungsten shoot he’d ever been on as all his comtemporaries used HMI, Kino and LED . I said that there was probably a harder way to do it than that but I couldn’t imagine it. Tungsten is still the easiest and quickest way for lots of stuff. As a colleague said to me once “ give me a pickup full of blondes and I can probably tackle 90% of jobs@.

@Privateerspace

2 жыл бұрын

@@paulhicks3595 I always hated kinos bloody slow to set up terrible output and horrible cct, much like the arri s60 great lamp, but two heavy and to slow to set up I do a lot of drama fast turn around drama, where time is money and overtime is a bad word I still use a ton of tungsten in the studio blondes 1ks 2ks 5ks ans 650s you just can't beat them still for speed and out put augmented with a few soft light leds, still makes for a very speedy system.

@paulhicks3595

2 жыл бұрын

@@Privateerspace I still have a couple of Kino type 6 banks which I occasionally use and I also pack a Rifa 90cm x 90cm with 1000w, 650w and 300w because it’s so light so you can rig it on, for instance , a long boom. 650 fres are great little, versatile, lights units and I usually pack a couple. I also carry a couple of little Lowel Pro fres, one 200w and another 80w 12v as well as a couple of Par16 ‘ birdies ‘ which can use MR16 tungsten and LED. They’re small and light so great to rig. I often pack a couple of Source 4s with various gobos and iris etc . I gave various low wattage bulbs that can go into Redheads which works great in low light looks -especially run thruough s dinner to get the colour temp down. I always pack tungsten domestic bulbs for prac lighting or when using a real, paper , china ball which I sometimes use because it’s lighter than the ‘ pro’ type for rigs or on a hand held boom. I often put everything through a dimmer.

Glad you left that bit in about the focus! Literally happened to me this week! I think sharing those bits defo humanises the whole youtube thing. Thanks, great video and content as always!

People underestimate the power of feel. Nowadays, there’s so much high tech stuff, going back to the basics can serve a function outside of technical capability. The warmth that emanates from the light, the feeling of having them on set, silly to say, but the vibe. It can get a certain result from talent.

@craigrryan86

Жыл бұрын

You're correct.

@BrettHoustonTube

7 ай бұрын

Yes. "Energy, frequency and vibration" is everything! LED makes people's faces look grayish and dead. It gives people headaches and makes one feel disoriented after hours of exposure. Also causes degenerative retina failure. Sunshine makes them look glowing, radiant and alive. Tungsten is the closest you can get to sunshine's qualities and characteristics. As a photographer, if you want your subjects to look and feel their best in your session, you must know how to control energy on all levels.

I’ve seen a lot of DPs who use LED lights and set them to daylight but gel with CTO because it creates even more natural skin tones vs. setting them to tungsten. The LED diodes are best at replicating daylight but aren’t quite there when it comes to replicating tungsten I’ve heard. Just saw that go down on a feature I was working on here in Omaha. Curious if you’ve ever noticed a difference in your own work.

@rodrigoprata

2 жыл бұрын

One thing to keep in mind is that Daylight only units tend to be cheaper and brighter at the same power draw then bicolor units. So it makes sense to purchase a 200D vs a 200X for instance and just correct using gels when you need it. It's a little more work, but it's worth the trade off.

@heartshapedfilms

2 жыл бұрын

@@rodrigoprata this is very true though a 1 Stop gel is literally going to reduce the output the same as what the 200x would set to tungsten. So roughly the same. The true advantage is having the brighter light at all points when set to a day light version essentially twice as bright. Though this is why the 600X intrigues me the most. Also this is what confuses me about the sky panels by arri as they seem to stay as bright as they need to always

@rodrigoprata

2 жыл бұрын

@@heartshapedfilms The skypanels would be brighter if they had a daylight only version. ARRI does not make daylight only version because they know it would canibalize the sales of the more expensive RGB version.

@heartshapedfilms

2 жыл бұрын

@@rodrigoprata I understand obviously that if it was one colour then it would be brighter though how it has an equal amount of every colour is fascinating. Though I doubt people would be that bothered if they did make the choice as there is a ton more flexibility in the RGB and those who want it will still pay while making a cheaper one that isn't RGB people that aren't use to arri may get on board and they essentially capture back the lower market too. It's an interesting time for lighting tech. And I am excited to see the orbitor become more used in the industry.

@runaproducoes6400

2 жыл бұрын

@@heartshapedfilms Maybe thats true for bicolor leds, but in general its the opposite. Tungsten balanced Leds tend to be more color accurate as far as i know.

Great comparison ! Such great information to know. I wouldn’t have thought to look up or research otherwise, but I’m glad I watched this video

Awesome video. I keep trying to convince friends about the difference and why sometimes it is best to suck it up and use tungsten stuff.

Congratulations on getting a Komodo! I’ve had mine for about 5 months now and I love it a lot! Also great video bro.

I think a small part of his choice with tungsten is also his age. Throughout most of his career it was basically only tungsten. He will do little calculations in his head in regards to their output and behaviour so that’s a hard thing to change when your entire career is built on that way of thinking because quite frankly LED just doesn’t look or react the same. LED is typically not as colour accurate as tungsten either, especially cheaper fixtures or old ones that have a poor CRI/ TLCI value, LED by its nature doesn’t throw very far and doesn’t cut the same as some tungsten fixtures can, nor is it as rich in colour on the spectrum. LED can tend to have an artificial look to it, partly due to the fall off you get. I’m sure most line producers would much prefer he lit with LED fixtures and shot with 4 cameras for cost reasons but tungsten and HMI is the way to go it seems! I must admit, when I gel a LED with CTO it’s just not the same. Anyway, more importantly you can’t warm up your lunch on an LED in the back of the truck… (yes I’ve seen that done lol)

thanks for this, would like to see the daylight balanced lights as well

DPs prefer tungsten light because it's more reliable. It has a bulb and a cord, so if something breaks on set, you don't have to spend a lot of time on fixing the issue, and it is much cheaper. Also, CRI of tungsten light is near 99+.

thanks for the effort and the share. i am an appreciative subscriber. i welcome a similar test but with daylight led and CTO gel. thumbs up.

Fascinating test. The big difference for me was the actual throw of the lights. The directionality of the tungsten was great. The extra, more sharp shadows on your background really added some dimension. The LED has more even spread, for sure, but it's making the shot look a bit flatter, especially with the nova panel being a good 2 ft wider than your tungsten fill light. Nothing a few flags or some barndoors can't fix though. I think if the beam angles had been more similar, with some color correction, the shots would have looked, arguably, identical. I already have a mickey mole in my lighting kit, but I'm seriously considering getting some 200d's. Have you tried the barndoors or the fresnel attachment on the 200x?

I don't think the difference is enough to deal with blowing fuses or heat elements or the wattage being so high. Like many other things, comparing the 2 side by side you might see it, but without it you can't see much of a difference. Deakins uses a lot of LEDs now

Heat warning: I use 3x 1000W tungsten heads (cheap ones because I'm poor and my video work is only really the occasional corporate talking heads) and I love the look but the hassles are real. They really get very hot. I had a softbox on one that started melting (luckily I caught it before it started a flame) and I've also melted a hole into an expensive projector screen that I was using to bounce while shooting a corporate interview - and it was more than a metre away. So be warned, these puppies can be dangerous. On the plus side, the heat is handy in winter. I've never had issues with blowing circuits even when running all 3 at maximum power, but I'm in South Africa - we have 240V and I'm not sure but maybe our circuits are a little more robust due to this - though this is a naive assumption. On the plus side, the warm light is flattering for subjects who aren't models or actresses with professional makeup on, and allows me to separate my subjects with minimal effort using minimal grading (since the backgrounds, typically unlit, are already cooler). I'm thinking of selling 2 now and replacing with RGB LEDs, but I'll likely keep one and use it as my key most times.

Thank you for this.

I expected more of a difference! Great video! I think one thing flawed here is how you set your white balance. I think you should have used a grey card for each light and situation. 3200k in camera isnt exactly accurate for each light.

What’s the point of using your WB at 3200k ? the whole idea is the nice warm temperature. The main cons about led is the frequency but of course is more efficient

Why does Roger Deakins prefer Tungsten lighting? He doesn't. Check out his podcast ffs.

@willylaw9194

2 жыл бұрын

It's not that he preferrs any light over another, he just tends to use tungsten lights very often in interior scenes such as in No Country and 1917. There's always a different light for a different scenario

I have 3 tungsten lights, and 2 more that need bulbs but I'm too afraid to try to change them, but also I can't even locate the bulbs for them. I plugged in two to my outlet, (1300 watt at full power) into one socket, to try to shine light through my windows to make a day look. And it worked, for about 30 seconds, before half the lights in my apartment stopped working. This was before I knew anything about wattage or amps. These lights are insane.

@craigrryan86

Жыл бұрын

Time to learn about electricity? kzread.info/dash/bejne/aHhr2LuDd5W5Yag.html

Tungsten light has a continuous colour spectrum that is easy to add or subtract colour correction filtration. It responds very well to rheostat voltage control. Also, a tungsten light filament in a clear glass envelope has a quality that is really hard edged, but responds beautifully to layered diffusion - it’s like arid desert midday sunlight at 3200k with hidden benefits.

I think what's missing here is that you should have taken a 200d s and put some quality gels on it like from Lee Filters. The Zircon filters from Lee are especially made for LED lights. They even have combination Zircon filters of daylight to tungsten with a slight minus green on it as well. I wonder whether the Lee filters give a more color accurate picture compared to the tungston light than the bi-color construction of the 200x. Maybe you can test that as well.

Roger doesn't have to stand under all that hot light 💡 or pay the electric bills. More powerful tungsten-tinted LED lights are good enough to me for most instances.

I think there is some confusion when looking at any career that spans technology and budgets. Maybe coming from documentary is more significant as most dps who do are used to using the available light and that is either daylight or a domestic tungsten source. RD has always seemed a very practical person and he has picked up many wonderful habits across such a career. The fact that he shoots often on tungsten stock may be a simple reason why he prefers tungsten light and more likely the majority of his career has been spent in a world where hulking great HMIs might have been the only alternative. Obviously when mixing in practicals as a source it can help to have tungsten and lord knows there are a lot of fixtures to choose from. That said RD seems also a pragmatist and just as he seems to be embracing digital cameras I’m sure he’d be the first to appreciate the sheer convenience of led lights or projected virtual production lighting which really seems to be the future. Thanks for your video. Btw I’d be interested to know why you are getting a Komodo and whether or not you are ditching blackmagic.

Komodo Auto will be fine for these frame talking heads no problem. Double tap that APP. Enjoyed this, thanks Spenser!

Interesting that the Amaran LED looks warmer than the halogen light. I did not expect that. I use a different halogen light by Lowell and mine puts out a much warmer tone. I wonder if there's a difference brand to brand

Tungsten looks much better. The only drawback is the heat.

Can you put an led bulb inside of tungsten light fixture, for example put an led bulb in an arri 150 or 300 rather than the regular lamp?

i got 3x500W "mizar" tungsten interview light, 1x 2000W, 1x1000W, 1x800W. got them from a retired filmstudio owner in 2013. you could get them VERY cheap back in the days. maybe 50 bucks.i never sold them, even when i have LED meanwhile. good to know, thanks!

The biggest advantage of Tungsten is you can purchase one for the rental price of a good LED. Par Can's are incredibly cheap, I got 3x used 1k Par Can spots for $12 each, they are extremely versatile and powerful. It takes a 600D with a fresnel spotted in fully to give comparable brightness and color rendition, but that's a $1500 light or a +$75 rental. I mostly use LED these days for their power draw, sizem low heat, RGB, and the ability to run off batteries, but tungsten is absolutely a viable option for many/most setups.

I wonder if you had a 200 T led that it would match the output but also give more of the reddish hue too. I personally don't think it's worth it. The cameras are so good these days that it would seem easier to match in post. Out of practicality. Though I liked some of the effects of the 1K i didn't see much difference though that could be a mix of YT compression and watching on a phone.

Let me step in here: A tungsten light uses current to heat a filament (tungsten metal wire). The more current the brighter, bigger and "hotter" the filament gets and the more watts it puts off. Pros: natural source, brighter, more color accurate, warm on cold nights. cons: bigger, heaver, way more power hungry, hot on summer days. LED uses current through two reactive materials that inherently puts off light (using current as a reaction reduces then "need" for heat). Pros: lighter, smaller, cooler, color accurate, uses less current, long life span, more can be on set, cheaper. Cons: Not as trusted, short history. The terms are Voltage, Amperage(current), and wattage (total power or heat). Tungsten lights pull more current therefore by proxy have a higher wattage. The most important equation is volts x amps = watts. Since the voltage is consistently locked at 120 us or 240 uk then the amps change (not always but 90% of the time) to result in displayed wattages. 1000W tung breakdown: 120 volts x ?amps = 1000 watts - 1000watts / 120 volts = 8.3 amp [which is a loooot] [no touchy] 500w led: 500 watts / 120 volts = 4.1 amps [which is also a loooot] [no touchy] a nondeadly amperage is 0.005 amps you can unsafely use (3x) 500 watt LEDS on one 15 amp house circuit or (1x) tung light on the same circuit. This breakdown was to inform that watts on a light are a good measure to ID heat and brightness output but is only a linked byproduct of the current that runs through it. It is truly amperage that runs the show.

Okay, I haven't seen your video yet but I've had a theory on this and I feel like it's a ruminant of the film vs digital debate. Let me explain. With certain stock of film in the past, you had to shower the scene with light to get exposures and those came very typically sources pre reliable LED days. These light fixtures have different light characteristics, to say their wavelength distribution is different, therefore the way their light reflected was different which would end up affecting how the colour would render on film. LEDs also have their unique distributions despite our eyes perceiving it differently and I think the way they reflect and render are different so to preserve the subconscious look, using those same tools or an led that can replicate that distribution helps with that.

cant you see the led light is warmer? Heard about cri?

1 watt in LED is equivalent to around 10 watts in Tungsten. Hope that helps.

When Deakins uses Tungsten lights, it's mostly because he wants the image warm -- not cooler sun light. Confused why your balance examples are cooler and not like the auburn warm tones in the Deakins' shot film clips you featured? Or am I missing something?

@spensersakurai

2 жыл бұрын

He often uses gels or dims his tungsten units for the warm look. I didn’t want to do that for this test. I also didn’t have a proper dimmer to try it. The warm tone is another video idea!

@luludubois

2 жыл бұрын

@@spensersakurai I've read a few interviews with him where he says he sets his camera to 4300K for those types of scene.

I have most of the Nanlite units and the 600x , 1200d ,and all the new tech lighting but the magic as a gaffer will always be HMI and tungsten play off .

The aputure light does have a little green tint on it but as far as I know the more you use LED the green tint will become lesser.

@426Studios

2 жыл бұрын

For me I would use tungsten lights if I have a large crew but if the shoot has a large budget I would use an HMI.

@vivianvaldi7871

2 жыл бұрын

LED are said to shift towards green on the long range. It would be fun if quality increased or just stayed permanent, but you know entropy... While tungsten just burns, LEDs, when still working, will shift. U may need to buy another one after like 25.000 / 50.000 hours, so 3 years 24/7 full service. Seems a lot. What u're talking about relates to the first hours of burning I guess.

Thats happening because tungsten light is 100 CRI, so it reproduce color as natural as the sun does. wich LED light isnt able to reach just yet

@DastanZhumagulov

2 жыл бұрын

Tungsten has 100 CRI because CRI metric was created to measure tungsten light to begin with 🤷‍♂️ Also I believe it's not even the most accurate metric to date to assess the light quality

@vlcthefish

2 жыл бұрын

@@DastanZhumagulov some tungsten fan boys say the sun was created to measure tungsten light

1 stop difference is 100% difference … I would call this noticeable or huge XD

It also depends on the cameras, Sony clip blues faster than tungsten light.

That HMI video never came

Need a way to explain LED lights? They're reverse solar panels!

1 stop difference, not that much?! Isnt that twice the light output?

I ❤️ shooting with Tungsten!

The tungsten seems to give the subject more shape, the LED the image looks a little flat to me

I do really like the Tungsten more

How can a video like this, which compares lights, make statements such as "1 stop of light, not noticeable, not much of a difference" ? A stop of light is doubling / halving the output. Basically like saying that having to add another light of the same output to achieve the same exposure is not a big deal, or on a larger scale, that having to have two trucks of light vs just one, or that being able to shoot at half the ISO value is not a benefit.

Honesty use gels use gels use gels. I HATE rgb, color led. Physical 5600k is the purest color (outside of a narrow sliver of blue) an led can put off and if you stray from that without gels you are harming the color quality. Setting your led panels to a warm tone will be worse then gelling even if you cant tell the camera can.

Led hmi all got frequency and a frame rate. Tungsten is constant flow no flicker

No it's noticeable

@vivianvaldi7871

2 жыл бұрын

Yep tungsten gives a better color slap. Reflector quality might play a part too. Aputure light domes are said to have a greenish tint : the internal reflector layer is not of the highest quality.

Top dolla

they are set to ban nearly all bulbs in the next few years. when that happens, the manufacturers will be unable to sustain their business for niche markets like film

CRI research

kzread.info/dash/bejne/o66Yupd9XbaWips.html look at the green blanket , totally different , and totally different vibe

36sec ago..... Im early

No i can tell the difference , i can also tell for the majority of head shot speaking its LED light because your skin is green , we are talking nit picking here , but god damn tungsten

Title was clickbait.

Nah not a real test sorry

Instead of talking at 2000 mph, how about slowing down And explains the differences between the various options!

Roger Deakins has one weakness - he don't shoot the most cinematic lens there is - anamorphics.

Roger Deakins is not the most famous cinematographer, he is the most famous for you because KZread is telling you that.

@johnnyweissmuller5838

7 ай бұрын

Yes, he really has become a youtube phenomenon, once a youtuber starts, the rest follows and it has spiralled out of control now imo, he is almost not human anymore around here

@ParkerStanfieldFilm

6 ай бұрын

Calm down