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@arnijulian6241

2 ай бұрын

I put it down to general attrition, lack of familiarity with the lands & most of pre industrial Europe being bogs & marshlands. Germany & the HRE was a very different land before industrialization being far less suited to mounted combat. Hungary did survive with deep ditches & tall walls even if far worse for wear. Hungary & Austria that formed as Austro-Hungary was historically known as the Bulwark of Christendom for without them Central & western Europe would have experienced far more foreign invasion. Poland was swift campaign but not without loses but Hungary was slow tedious affair for the Mongolians were the Hungarians took up the small war as Grand battle proved pointless. Both Vietnam & Hungary learnt facing the Mongolians directly was effectively pointless due to their mounted ranged mobility. Terrain & siege was their greatest assets in non conventional small war.

@julekamer9782

2 ай бұрын

​@@arnijulian6241😅😮

@death-istic9586

2 ай бұрын

Love your videos!💚

@aboubakrouladabdellah6611

2 ай бұрын

hey could you make a vidio on guirilla warfare 😯

@TheRezro

2 ай бұрын

It could be also all of them. While death of Khan end invasion. Mongols also faced fierce resistance, they forces were tired after previous conquests and invasion was not yet the main goal. He didn't trust such important mission to be done by someone else, so he called off whole thing.

Batu 1241: My stomach hurts. Let's go home... Historians centuries later: WHY???

@stephenbaluran3298

2 ай бұрын

Or maybe the wife back home sent him an angry letter, asking him why he's so obsessed with someone named Bela.

@user-ge5vf5md7r

2 ай бұрын

​@@stephenbaluran3298lol

@sizanogreen9900

2 ай бұрын

@@stephenbaluran3298 Bah! Alexander wouldn't have chickened out.

@aburoach9268

2 ай бұрын

@@sizanogreen9900 His army did though, unlike the Mongol army

@sizanogreen9900

2 ай бұрын

@@aburoach9268true enough I guess xD Didn't help Darius tho.

Interesting. I'd always assumed that the "Great Khan death" theory was settled history.

@oleopathic

2 ай бұрын

Can a theory ever be settled without becoming a law or an equivalent ?

@dogukantopal4809

2 ай бұрын

​@@oleopathic yes it can be settled and can still exist as an theory. A law on the other hand explains a set of observations about a scientific topic like newton' laws.

@oleopathic

2 ай бұрын

@@dogukantopal4809 I've never heard of a settled theory. It seems like an oxymoron, wouldn't you say?

@dogukantopal4809

2 ай бұрын

@@oleopathic Hypothesis and theory are sometimes mistaken with each other . A proven and settled hypothesis would be a theory and if its concerns different scientific branches all together it would be a law. An example of an "settled" theory would be the Darwin's theory of evolution, it is proven and settled that evolution exists and creatures change over time according to their enviroments. But it mainly concerns a single scientific branch which would be biology therefore it is a theory not a scientific law.

@CRNOGORACSAMUDUSIKACAVENDA1389

2 ай бұрын

U aint shit lil homie

This is excellent. Historical events rarely have a single, tidy cause. Having multiple theories that don't agree with each other reflects how history actually is as a field of study.

@anadasingh3456

2 ай бұрын

Batu, is a general but notice he does not have an actual Kingdom to rule. When the Khan dies, he his force withdrawal and do a land grab. They go out and secure their own kingdoms for themselves before the new Khan is in place. Notice too Batu doesn't return home for fear of being assassinated.

@mnemonija

2 ай бұрын

I mean if you can get paid...

@fatalshore5068

Ай бұрын

That's why I love it. It's like a puzzle with many pieces. Trying to piece them together to form a coherent picture. Wadeing through the bias and contemporary geo politics of the time whilst doing so. Man I love history :D

Short version: “We don’t know. Thanks for watching.”

@alb7568

Ай бұрын

You wright

@anthonykaiser974

Ай бұрын

"...but we got you to think. Welcome to real history."

An interesting fact is that there is a Mongolic people that still live in Europe: the Kalmyks. Kalmyks live between the Volga river and the Caucasus in Russia, and its republic Kalmykia is the only place in Europe where Buddhists are the dominant religion group.

@dreddykrugernew

2 ай бұрын

Sami are Mongol origin

@amgalanbaatarbat-erdene6261

2 ай бұрын

Kalmyks have very rich history both glorious and sad. Kalmyks played important role in Russian defense against Napoleon. They were also part of soviet army that entered Germany in WWII. Those who were taken hostage by Germans later immigrated to USA, with help of Leo Tolstoy foundation, Tolstoy had Kalmyk ancestors. There are also sad history of Torghud migration aka last great nomadic migration, and Kalmyk exile to Siberia by Stalin.

@ballenboy

2 ай бұрын

​@@dreddykrugernewSami and Finnic peoples were in northern Europe for thousands of years before the Mongol expansion. True that they have a eastern origin but not as far as mongol or east asian.

@TheTokkie

2 ай бұрын

@@ballenboy Indo Europeans migrated into Europe thousands of years ago

@elzhann.6760

2 ай бұрын

But they migrated to Europe in 17th century

“Will we see a continuation of the Mongol invasion of Europe on your Wizards and Warriors channel?”

@KingsandGenerals

2 ай бұрын

Yes

@InquisitorXarius

2 ай бұрын

@@KingsandGeneralsAWESOME!!!

@jamesbradley8326

2 ай бұрын

@@KingsandGeneralscould you feature or mention Duke Jean 1 of Brittany he was a cousin to the king

@jiyuhong5853

2 ай бұрын

wait they run that channel as well? sick

@Aerostarm

2 ай бұрын

@@KingsandGeneralsnice!!!

When I feel bummed out that KZread has turned into a platform for A.I.-overloaded generic content, a Kings and Generals notification appears to raise my spirits.

@anathardayaldar

Ай бұрын

They are the last human holdouts. They must be defended at all costs.

Im still wondering why no one has made a full game solely focused on the Mongol conquests starting from Chinggis Khan uniting the tribes all the way to the death of Mongke Khan. It would make one hell of a game, in my opinion.

@tobo7580

2 ай бұрын

I just want a time machine, to go back and observe and maybe play the ambassador of some country so in actual history some German micro kingdom swore an oath to the Mongols and the Khans lol

@102938475646665

2 ай бұрын

It would make a great game or trilogy of epics

@andrewsuryali8540

2 ай бұрын

Eh? KOEI already made that in the 1980s.

@sobolzeev

2 ай бұрын

​@@tobo7580I would prefer to be the ambassador of the Great khan. By the way, he was an Englishman, one of the pro-images of Robin Hood. Quite a remarkable person he was, one of the authors of the Manga Charta, a fellow of St Francis in the Fifth Crusade, a knight of Tapesond Empire. Poet, politician, warrior and womanizer.

@dianapennepacker6854

2 ай бұрын

Was just thinking Asassins Creed should do it or Ubisoft. Just embrace the mythology, and RPG aspects too. I have no idea what Mongols believed so it would be a cool game. Play as a Mongol general. Tons of horse combat with large scale battles. Lead your troops into battle. Use the Falcon to give orders. Would be cool. I'm playing Ragnarok, and just thinking the game is better with the magical abilities.

Apparently, escaping to an island was the preferred choice of Kings running from the Mongols. The Khwarizmid Sultan also escaped to an Island in the caspian sea

@thomasrinschler6783

2 ай бұрын

He never left that island, though, unlike Bela.

@tiboruhrin4080

2 ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Finally, a little sarcasm on this ridiculous, superficial little video! The Mongol imperial army was unable to capture half of the castles of the Kingdom of Hungary, and the guerrilla strategy of our Hungarian warriors destroyed most of their invasion force even without the king! That's why they wore down in 1242 and 1285! Not because of hoax theories and mirage hypotheses! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@saretgnasoh7351

2 ай бұрын

@@tiboruhrin4080 Here we go with the myths to inflate national feeling that never happened

@tiboruhrin4080

2 ай бұрын

@@saretgnasoh7351 Cynicism is a pathetically forced counterpoint to sarcasm! However, to answer! 1. The strategic goal of the Mongol imperial army was to occupy the Kingdom of Hungary and enslave its inhabitants!2. Their victory at Pyrrhic with too much blood sacrifice affected their invasion plans because of their loss of life in this battle! 3. This is why they were unable to completely occupy the castle system ruling the Kingdom of Hungary! 4. The local noble force, independent of the royal army, with their guerrilla tactics, which developed into a coherent strategy, so many more times ensnared the Mongol raiders with insufficient local knowledge, who constantly detached themselves from the Mongol main army! This grinds up the main strike force of the Mongol Imperial Army! This is how the glory of the world's empires falls! Pomposity is a bad adviser! See the fall of the Soviet and later Yankee empires in contemporary Afghanistan. Against a goat herder vandalizing with a few thousand ak in Vietnamese slippers! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@tiboruhrin4080

2 ай бұрын

@@thomasrinschler6783 Nor did he have a nobility allergic to imperial arrogance, like Bela in the Kingdom of Hungary!

This Kings and Generals channel is pure wealth.

I just can't imagine the logistic and administrative challenges the Mongols were facing. This was the age when you rely on horses for transportation, across the entire Eurasian continent. It is not like Batu could just send a Whatsapp message to the Mongol court and have reinforcements and supplies flying in the next day.

@michaelbacqalen1109

2 ай бұрын

They usually take reinforcements and supplies from the lands that they raid

@idontgetit2195

2 ай бұрын

Mongols were nomads..... They lived off the land they conquered and occupied they did not need supplies from Mongolia.

@wingedhussar1453

2 ай бұрын

Well considering that everyone else also had awful logistics and transfer of information .it wasnt as bad as you think. They had days to think about moves

@joebloggs5318

Ай бұрын

They kept stuff pretty basic. Whatever they wanted they sent a rider to deliver a message.

@anthonykaiser974

Ай бұрын

It's not a modern mechanized Army. Weaponry and food could be sourced locally. Animals grazed or ate locally acquired hay.

From what I gathered from multiple sources, the most likely option is that a number of factors made the conquest of western Europe not worth the effort for the mongols, and Batu was smart enough to quit while he was ahead. For starters, there was a HUGE distance between Europe and the core of the Mongolian empire, which meant that any army that tried to conquer Europe would have essentially been on its own, unable to receive substantial reinforcements. Moreover the amount of resources that could be diverted to attack Europe were limited, since the Mongols had to patrol and control a huge empire already. In addition to this, Europe proved to be a tough nut to crack. While the mongols achieved significant military successes in Eastern Europe, they didn't really fare well in sieges against stone castles (which they often left alone) and Western Europe had many more stone castles compared to Poland and Hungary. The Mongols certainly had the means to perform successful siege operations (like the did in China) but it would have slowed down considerably, making them lose their main advantage (mobility). Moreover, due to the decentralization of Europe due to the feudal system, they couldn't just strike the enemy capital and cut the snake's head, so to speak, but they'd be stuck sieging castle after castle just to bring down a single region. In addition to this, Western Europe was not suitable at all for their style of warfare, since the hilly and rugged terrain would reduce their mobility and make their cavalry vulnerable. To summarize, the Mongols would have certainly tried to conquer Europe if they thought that they could do so easily. Invading Poland and Hungary was almost certainly an attempt to establish a beachhead from which they could stage further campaigns into Europe. But after taking a better look at the western part of Europe, not to mention after suffering significant casualties due to the resistance of the locals, Batu most likely realized that trying to proceed further west would have been incredibly hard and would have resulted in a pyrrhic victory at best, so he did the smart thing and turned away.

@amgalanbaatarbat-erdene6261

2 ай бұрын

Mongolian historians argue that Lack of Goals as the main reason. It is agreed that initial purpose of Batu campaign was to subjugate Kipchaks, who fled to eastern europe. And army that was preparing for european expedition mentioned by Carpini, was actually Ugudei's descendants to subjugate Jochi Ulus (Genghis Khan's oldest son), because Jochi descendants didn't approve Uguudei lineage as Great khans. Your points are probably also valid, but bottom line is Mongol Empire never really planned to conquer Europe. As mentioned in the video, Mongolian army raided eastern europe and left, didn't leave a garrison, which makes no sense if European conquest was planned at all.

@ValeTheOwl

2 ай бұрын

@@amgalanbaatarbat-erdene6261 Given the size of their invading armies and the fact that they actually probed deeply into europe, I'd argue that the Mongols probably had multiple possible objectives for their campaign: raiding new territories and subjugating the Kipchaks were certainly among them, but I believe that testing Europe's defenses and even conquer it if it was feasible were also objectives of this campaign. The fact that they turned away once king Bela escaped capture and the europeans actually started moving to fight them back support this in my opinion: they had already achieved the "main" objectives of their campaign, and since the "optional" ones were just too difficult they simply called it a day.

@plr2473

2 ай бұрын

@@ValeTheOwl Well put. The Mongols were opportunists that raided and pillaged, and often claimed vassal states wherever they went. However, there were times when it was just not feasible to continue. Batu was in charge, and you're right. I too think he understood this. There were simply too many obstacles to warrant a further advance. The fierce resistance from the locals, the costly battles as of far, the distance from Mongolia, the difficult terrain, and so on. It really shows his brilliance as a leader. Like you said, he quit while ahead

@tiboruhrin4080

2 ай бұрын

Realms always meet their nemesis! Batu found it in the person of Bela! And in the Hungarian nobility, allergic to imperial pomposity!

@doritofeesh

2 ай бұрын

I think the greatest issues were diverting resources to conquer Europe. The Mongols would have to march thousands of miles to reach Poland and Hungary from Karakorum. Even for their invasion of the Jin Dynasty in the 1230s, which was closer, it was still a significant logistical hurdle due to the sheer distance and the amount of men they had to put into the field to match the Jin (perhaps 120k Mongols and federated vassals). While China was densely populated with many vast and fertile river valleys, the same cannot be said for the underdeveloped and, as you said, decentralized polities of Europe, which did not have the means to supply such massive armies for prolonged periods of time, even via forage and tribute from the local populace. Of course, the Mongols were still very inured to hardship and, if we put aside logistical difficulties, everything else was not strange to them. Climate and weather are challenges they had faced before, in the dry and frigid steppes, as well as the snow-peaked and freezing mountains. Indeed, they had braved mountain ranges in several campaigns under Chinggis Khan and Subugatai to operationally turn the defensive lines of their enemies, in addition to hot and barren deserts bereft of water, except for a few oases. People overstate the difficulties that the Mongols would have faced due to terrain, but all of the greatest Mongol campaigns had been done under the most brutal conditions when one studies them in depth. On several occasions, Chinggis and Subugatai had marched through mountain ranges to outflank the Jin, the Xia, and moved through the harsh deserts to catch the Khwarezmians unaware. Nor would they have particular trouble with European fortifications, as the Jin and Khwarezmians also have many castles and forts, built out of bricks, stone, and reinforced by packed earthworks. The fortifications in the East were just as high quality and dense in quantity, especially in China where almost every town was fortified with earthworks and, in the case of Chinggis Khan's Samarkand Campaign, the Khwarezmians had the Syr Darya Line with a formidable river before their length of fortresses, all of which had to be reduced over several months of campaigning. Even without their primary advantage of mobility in conducting these campaigns, in which they had to be more methodical, the Mongols still managed to overcome their adversaries, who were typically more centralized and powerful than the individual European states. Another thing which is more specific to the Mongol commanders themselves were that Chinggis and Subugatai weren't your average Mongol commanders, nor were they like your average commanders in general. Their art of war was unique in that it was extremely ahead of its time and based on large scale operational manoeuvres utilizing many tumen as if they were divisions or corps. This is something Europe would not really develop until the 18th and 19th centuries, but was a huge advantage which very few generals in Medieval times grasped the concept of. Most of the Mongol generals did not even take war to such a high level, but still operated on the usual status quo and this was especially problematic because the generation of Chinggis and Subugatai were the golden generation; their feats were never reproduced after they had died and one can clearly see that by studying the campaigns of Nogai or Tokhtamysh, as well as Temur to a lesser extent (though he did experiment with it in his Indian Campaign, unlike his peers). It would be like if you took Moltke the Elder and placed him as a general in the Medieval Era. He would have absolutely dominated every other commander of that time, just because of his superior understanding of large scale operations, which almost nobody else did back then.

My theory, which I almost always use when there are many theories, is "a little bit of everything" and it has never failed me.

@Okami1313

Ай бұрын

This, very much this.While the specific theories may conflict, the core of their arguments do not. There were significant casualties suffered by the Mongols in Poland and Hungary, more than they were likely used to, and with the death of ogedai, it was likely difficult to get reinforcements to continue the campaign since so many were going east to choose the new Khan. Combine that with bad weather, poorer grazing opportunities than were ideal, and he probably just went back to regroup but got bogged down with ruling eastern Europe.

This channel and Wizards and Warriors are my favorite war channels

I just thought that they realised that, with so many losses, they would be stretched far too thin to conquer, secure and maintain the land. So, they left on a high note, knowing that they had spread fear, and leaving the door open to come back again.

@sobolzeev

2 ай бұрын

Well, they left just four thousands of Mongols to keep the land between Carpathian mountains and what now is Eastern Khazakhstan. They knew a great political art of conquering locals to their administration. Why couldn't they spend some three hundreds more to rule Hungary?

@clayerhun1597

2 ай бұрын

The Mongols returned and launched a second invasion, but the Hungarians were prepared and defeated them.

@sobolzeev

2 ай бұрын

@@clayerhun1597 Khulagu attacked Bagdad, not Esztergom. Or do you mean the raid by Nogai? Exactly 20 times smaller in force? I remember Hungarian sources were so proud they succeeded in stopping these incomplete 2 thousand horsemen. Almost as proud as Muslims of their success about Ain Jalut, where 45 thousand Mamluks were victorious over 15 thousand Mongols.

@gwennblei

2 ай бұрын

​​@@sobolzeev Ooof, where did you get these numbers ? No one argues the second invasion of Hungary was conducted with 2000 men. Modern estimates vary but I never saw a number below 20 000 to be claimed. Stefan Krakowski mentions 30 000 men, P. Jackson mentions a considerable force, that might have been comparable in numbers to the one engaged in the first invasion. Contemporary chroniclers advance numbers in the hundred of thousands although these are definitely inflated. So yeah, what's your source for the 2000 men only ? Also same thing with the Mameluks, estimates for their forcd are 15000 to 20000 not 45 000.

@winzyl9546

2 ай бұрын

Exactly, they were already defeated in syria amd couldnt conquer the rest of the middle east, they simply reached their limits.

I wonder how well Mongols knew about Europe politically. AFAIK, Mongols did usually gather very much intelligence about their target countries before attacking. It would be prudent to assume that Mongols knew Hungarian, Polish and Balkan lands quite well but how well did they know about the capabilities Holy Roman Empire or France in detail?

@arda213

2 ай бұрын

They learnt some from Italian envoys in Crimea colonies.

@AB8511

2 ай бұрын

I am just speculating, but maybe they didnt deem it neccessary. There is such a thing called "victory disease" when you defeated so many enemies in the past, that you just extrapolate that next one will be easy target as well...

@sobolzeev

2 ай бұрын

If you recall that the ambassador of Mongols was an English templar and participant of the Fifth Crusade, you will have little doubts on the issue.

@Tuna685

2 ай бұрын

Trade treaty with Venitians too

@Nothing_serious

2 ай бұрын

Marco Polo literally served under Kublai Khan while he was in Asia.

Awesome Channel with equally awesome content. ANYTHING to do with the Mongols and other peoples of Steppe greatly interests me! Great job as always! Suggestion: On your Wizards and Warriors Channel, how about exploring the Dune Universe and in particular THE SARDAUKAR?

When I learned history in college, I had to write the local effects and happenings of the mongol invasion of 1241. In the hungarian plains it was quite common practice for the people who lived there to flee into the swamps in time of need. They did so during the mongol invasion too, and with one mongol party some local hungarian peasants lured them into the swamps, by saying that they are starving and they are willing to surrender, so they guided them into the middle of the swamp, then set the whole thing on fire. All of them burned and choked there.

The reason for the Mongol retreat was probably a combination of political, logistical and military difficulties. After the conquest of lowland Hungary, the Mongols reached the shores of the Adriatic, but the mountainous area in the hinterland of Dalmatia did not have enough pastures, and it was also ideal for guerrilla warfare. Isolated Mongolian detachments were destroyed near Sebenico, the island of Pag, the fortified towns of Trau and Clissa. The death of Ogodei contributed to the final decision to withdraw.

Awesome video you really did a great job explaining how major world changing events almost never happened in vacuum

I've argued for many years that they couldn't have kept going even if they wanted to. The land they were heading into was only getting more densely populated and less favorable, leaving before giving their enemies a chance to regroup and counter attack was just good sense. They probably planned to try again but never got the chance but I still believe they would have been contained in the Carpathian basin just like the Magyars before them.

@starfox300

29 күн бұрын

They did try again, they invaded Europe 3 times, only the first invasion was successful. In later battles they lost most of their men

@kristiannicholson5893

29 күн бұрын

@@starfox300 I meant 'They' as in Batu and Subutai who iirc never returned to Europe

00:12 The Mongols withdrew from Europe for unknown reasons. 02:23 Mongol withdrawal from Europe 04:36 Debate on the mystery continues 800 years later 07:04 The Mongols had different theories for leaving Europe 09:17 Mongols withdrew from Europe due to leadership issues and logistical challenges. 11:34 The Mongols' retreat from Europe in 1242 is controversial and possibly related to environmental factors. 14:00 Mongols faced major military challenges and may have withdrawn due to stretched forces. 16:19 The Mongols' withdrawal from Europe remains a mystery.

Awesome video, thanks for your hard work creating and sharing these!

I very much enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up

My theory is the "hard to take harder to hold" theory. A combination of well built stone towers capable of dealing horrific casualties before being taken on every other hilltop across the lands and the forests being home to what ammount to armies of guerilla fighters who pick off every other patrol, scout and forrager who ventures into the trees (which is unavoidable) Europe, while its armies in the field could be crushed, there were just too many fortified possitions and too many places for small groups of fighting men to hide and strike from to hold. These things combined made Europe an unending slog over every damn hill with their rear constantly being harassed by guerilla fighters so the mongols chose to peace TF out. In every other place the mongols conquered, they faced forces who preferred to fight in the open field and fortified possitions were few and far between, Europe was the opposite. It was unending siege warfare on every hilltop and constantly needing to devote troops to comb every inch of every forest constantly. Fact is, even for a force like the mongols, that wears on them, breaking down their confidence bit by bit, victories become harder and fewer, moralle drops a little more day by day. Also the territories that had submitted? They were constantly unruly, so one message from back home saying say "hey, the Rus are getting rebellious again and we dont have enough forces to crush them" the mongols were like "... fuck it" and got out of europe.

@mostgar

2 ай бұрын

Almost 100 % agreed. But one more thing to add. They also couldn't crush any solidified empire like China or Persia. Even if they killed 3 Emperors and 5 Kings they would still have to take like 9 morbilion castles and fortifications regardless. The HREs fractured nature would mean that by the time they conquered 10 counties, the first 3 would rebel. After slowly crushing that, 3 others would be rebelling already. Like whack a mole, but with every hit, you lose a part of your finger. For the mongols the HRE would be a mine field. They would spend 10 years conquering what amounts to 5% of their total territory and bearly be able to hold or control it. Like you said hard to take harder to control. High Risk, low reward.

@eljanrimsa5843

2 ай бұрын

@@mostgar Except for the empires which you don't know because they crushed them

@kuncipria7674

28 күн бұрын

😂🎉😮🎉😢🎉🎉

@ozberkoz

28 күн бұрын

I think that you have limited knowledge of Mongol conquests and geography. China and Korea were way more populous and better fortified than Europe during that time. Also Iran and Caucasus have naturally defendable positions all over them. Really the only reason central Europe wasn't affected is it was just way too far away.

@kairossoteria6215

27 күн бұрын

europe isn't that mountainous. mongols conueoroed regions that is far more difficult geographically climatic. i stick to the mainstream opinion that europe was saved because the khan died.

Nicely researched and narrated as always it’s the leaves the question

Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁👍

Brilliant as usual 👏🏻

Love the way everything is told, the different theories, why they may be true and why the may not. Would love a series on the mongol conquests

Thanks for your amazing content

This documentary is extremely well produced narrated and thought provoking . I belive a lot depended on single all powerful leaders and their decisions. Thank you friends.

Battles in Poland and Hungary were bloody for both sides and despite Mongol victories they haven't conquered lands thus preventing from enlarging recruitment and logistical base.

@clayerhun1597

2 ай бұрын

Then when the Mongols returned and launched a second invasion, the East Europeans were prepared and defeated them.

@RandomGuy-df1oy

2 ай бұрын

The ones in Poland were not and "they haven't conquered lands" that's just absurd. They were there to raid and loot, conquering means just putting men into garrisons as they already had most of these lands.

@aburoach9268

2 ай бұрын

@@clayerhun1597 the second invasion was just a poorly prepared Raid by a divided and weakened golden horde / Incomparable to the battle hardened professional Imperial army of the First invasion, The Fact that K&G did not even mention it above in the video proves it's irrelevance as an argument

@KarolusTemplareV

2 ай бұрын

A nice way to ignore all the preparations the kingdom of Hungary did that made life very hard for the mongols there.@@aburoach9268

@sztallone415

2 ай бұрын

@@aburoach9268 ? Why do you put a mention of KG as the deciding factor in a history debate? Also you're wrong, as they mentioned it, 12:36 and called it an 'invasion'. Sure, the second was just attempt, a much weaker one, facing a more prepared opponent, but calling it 'just a raid' isn't supported.

Love it from Mongolia 🇲🇳 As Mongol im this videos Mongol soldiers paint anime is so realistic great job guys 👍

@aweboatani

2 ай бұрын

Mongolians crack me up. You guys are the only people in the world that pride yourselves on the horrendous atrocities you comitted historically.

@Karabulut96

2 ай бұрын

​@@aweboatanithey respect their ancestors and their history, is it so strange? I am of Turko-Tatar origin and I understand Mongolians very well, although I do not like them

@aweboatani

2 ай бұрын

@@Karabulut96 yes it is strange. I respect my ancestors and history too, but I don't pride myself in my people's participation in the slave trade or situations where they sacked and burned cities or slaughtered Jewish people during the black plague.

@johnnnysilverhand9819

2 ай бұрын

@@aweboatani yeah but your ancestors were simply not as good at committing atrocities as the Mongols because you left survivors to complain and make you feel guilty to this day…..

@ftwcrazyman

2 ай бұрын

Based

Thanks for the good information in this video ⚔️

This was SUPER INTERESTING! I love it when you critically engage with evidence!

Scared Pottah? -random german to Batu Khan, 1242 a.D.

If for nothing else they were at the end of their logistical line, because even the Mongols as the equestrian nomads they were, had their logistical limit. All empires and military campaigns have it, and theirs ended in Hungay and Poland. No military force or army expanded as far as they did on land, a record achievement before the advent of the steam powered and gasoline fuel engines.

@SammyCee23

2 ай бұрын

Highly rational and unbiased comment here

Very interesting and well-informed - thank you.

I have a question, when the Empire collapsed, large chunks ended up ruling entire regions, the Mughals ruled much of India, the Golden Horde ruled much of Eastern Europe, the Yuan Dynasty ruled China and Korea, and the Ilkhanate controlled Persia, assuming they got further, and conquered the Franks and the HRE would there have been a successor state resembling the Roman Empire?

@redghettosun

2 ай бұрын

The Holy Roman Khanate.

@rubendr6510

Ай бұрын

Fuck me. The khanate of Rome. We missed out.

@redghettosun

Ай бұрын

@@rubendr6510 Yes, we did. After this Western European Khanate collapsed, could it have stayed together as one polity like China and Russia did? Imagine Germany, France and Italy united under one Khan! Me thinks Genghis would've approved.

I had only ever heard the "political" theory. As far as I knew, the idea that the Mongols left because of the death of the Khan was settled historical fact. Thank you for telling us about this debate.

@tiboruhrin4080

2 ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@gamedevyoutube3.030

2 ай бұрын

​@@tiboruhrin4080nigga tf you laughing for

There is multiple reasons They were overstretched, they had internal politics going on, and european warfare wasnt suited for them (Strong castles and forteresses of high quality everywhere, forests everywhere at that time, heavy cavalry/knights + crossbowmen being effective etc....)

@alexs2195

2 ай бұрын

more population compared with the steps also helps, is nothing compared with china, but china was centralized making it easier to take in a big atack, europe was full of small kingdoms in florest and mountains with their strong castles and fortified cities. They would need to siege so many castles to take a kingdom, and europe was full of them. They prob could win the war, but at what cost and in how much time?

@alexs2195

2 ай бұрын

if you look to the border countries that where invaded, they all had more european style cities and castles and they dint full conquest them, and even so they ended up spending many years taking them, and europe was way worse

@grimgoreironhide9985

2 ай бұрын

They only managed to conquer China because they fully committed a 30 year campaign to take cities and fortifications. They augmented their armies with conquered Han people in Northern China, Turks and others. With Europe they simply did not have the manpower, political unity and resources to carry the scale of operation as in China.

@AB-fr2ei

2 ай бұрын

@@grimgoreironhide9985 also the fortifications in China were not of the same quality as european ones

@ICCraider

2 ай бұрын

@@alexs2195 Also you have to remember it took a very long time for the Mongols to conquer China. A literal Khan even died during a siege. So I'd reckon they didn't want to waste manpower and time throwing their men against castles. Especially when the empire was so fragmented because of the quarrels of the Mongol princes. Despite the empire's size the Mongols could muster a single big army and Mongke sent the majority of the Mongol army to Baghdad and Song(which eventually got him killed). After Mongke's death the empire was just over. It stopped being a single entity anymore.

Wonderful episode

I think there is another option here not being considered. The hordes had just reached Germany. Eastern Europe and Western Europe had very different military technology and tactics. Western Europe heavily relied upon mass Castles and had "Heavy Cavalry". We know that in later conflicts Eastern Europe started to adopt Western European tactics and technology to great success against the Mongols. It's possible Batu was smart enough to understand that going further into Europe was going to be problematic. As in he had insight that later Mongols did not. I believe it was Poland that got crushed by the Mongols numerous times that a revolutionary King spent his life building castles and hiring/training Heavy Cavalry to try and prepare for their next attack. And when they did they got crushed. I think the crusades against Saladin showed that the European contingents of heavily armored knights were very effective against the lightly armored forces. Where situations where the crusaders were outnumbered 2:1 or 3:1 the crusaders ended up routing them.

Really appreciate your mongol history content - from South Korea

Glad the Shamanism angle was included, however brief. Those were times of true believers in that sort of thing being the norm.

You're right that the ecological explanation makes no sense - not only because of the reason which you've outlined, but their Hunic ancestors were actually, au contraire, quite fond of the Hungarian plains and the optimal ecosystem which it offered for horseback riding. Also- citation on Subutai's biography? Cheers awesome content!

This was a good one! The Mongol videos are what first pulled me into this channel.

I am a big fan of your channel and any thing to do with the "Great Khan!!"

Got really excited thinking this was part of the alternative history series 😭😭

I imagine that the elements of all four theories converged. They realized it was going to be a huge pain in the butt to fight deeper into Europe with their depleted armies. In Germany and France, if you throw a rock it'll bounce off three castles before it hits the ground. I can imagine Batu looking West and thinking, "Well, we did spank the Kipchaks, and now Ogedei is dead. Why not take the W we have and come back later?" The Mongols *did* come back later, and it didn't go well at all... the Poles and Hungarians spent the intervening time building castles everywhere.

Just found this channel by accident through Shorts, absolutely crazy that I recognized your voice @offydgg Devin, glad to see you're still around, I remember bingeing most of your series back on your original channel when I was younger. Trippy to hear your voice after so long, glad someone finally recognized your talent for Narration!

I love the way of Your presentation 😍 animation is realistic ✅

I've always been interested in the Mongols, so this is a very welcome development.

Another great Vid thx KnG

This video is actually a very well measured historical account. Fantastic work to the wonderful people at Kings and Generals.

I think castles were probably a key factor in Poland and Hungary’s survival as they ensured that, despite Mongol victories in the field, any conquest would degenerate into a war of sieges and attrition (since in order to rule the country the mongols would have had to have taken many if not most or all of them). This would not have suited the mongols as not only would they have had to stop their massive horse herds for weeks or months on end for every siege (possibly eating all the forage), but the small and highly defendable castle proved to be remarkably difficult for them to crack. So if they wanted to conquer they would have to invest years and countless lives in a war of attrition with no guarantee of success and I don’t think they were willing to. Better to just take what money you could and retreat to your already vast empire.

Are you guys gonna make a video about manor lords when that game releases?

They tried lutefisk and fled in abject terror.

He just feels homesick! He misses mum's inner mongolia hotpot badly.

I've noticed that the video quality has improved considerably.

Newest excavations found hundreds of small fortifications in Hungary, and fierce battles there. I would put my wote to the 4th theory.

Lithuania did throw out Mongols from Eastern Europe at Battle of Blue Waters in 1362.

@user-ic5ie9rj7v

2 ай бұрын

In fact, it is not a battle between two armies. The Mongols came to collect tributes, and their force number was small less than 1,000 men, but the Poles and Lithuanians refused to pay the tributes and fought and expelled the mongols

@1MuchButteR1

2 ай бұрын

@@user-ic5ie9rj7v Grand Duchy of Lithuania invaded Kiev. Which was not annexed yet. Lithuanians were not paying tribute around Vilnius and Belarus region of GDL.

So very interesting❤

Recent Hungarian archeological findings have established that, in addition to some major battles and sieges, there were many pockets of resistance - ultimately reducing the number of Mongol troops which, together with the escape of King Bela IV and the survival of Hungarian forces in teritories in unoccupied Hungary (NB. NOT the entire country was occupied, but mostly its lowland central area/Great Plain).

What about population density? Perhaps the Mongols tried to occupy Hungary but found the structures of government they had used over people they conquered in the steppes didn't work so well in Hungary with its dense population and close neighbours, and they concluded occupying Europe would be more difficult than they had planned, so Batu retreated to what he knew he could hold: the steppe. A kind of add-on to the military weakness theory

@laistvan2

2 ай бұрын

Europe started building fortresses(and fortoficated bridges) since 814-1100 when Arabs, Vikings and Magyars attacked them and these saved them unlike another places of the world(except Japan).

@eljanrimsa5843

2 ай бұрын

@@laistvan2 Do you think the Chinese and e.g. the Assassins did not build fortresses?

@jemoedermeteensnor88

Ай бұрын

@@eljanrimsa5843 Conquering a fortress for every 1000 inhabitants or 1 for every 100.000 makes a big difference. Just because there are less defenders doesnt make the siege much faster, almost all sieges in history are won by attricion. Where most people would make the sensible choice to surrender for a better outcome, Europeans have had the habit of resisting to the bitter end in case of sieges.

@eljanrimsa5843

Ай бұрын

@@jemoedermeteensnor88 In the conquest of the Khwarazmian Empire alone the Mongols laid siege and conquered Samarkand and Bukhara, cities bigger and richer and better defended than any city in Europe at the time, and laid siege and destroyed two other cities Otrar and Gurganj so completely that only ruins in the desert remained. They killed around a million people each in their bloodiest conquests in Merv and Nishapur, also two cities which never regained their former size and importance.

@jemoedermeteensnor88

Ай бұрын

@@eljanrimsa5843 But bigger cities are just worse to defend often. Rome practicly surrendered in a week while being by far the largest city in the world at that time. Also at Samarkland they fought on the open field and not at the city walls. Just because someone is not fit to command an army, doesnt mean no one is.

“With no safe place left in Hungary, the royal family finally escaped to Austria to seek help from Duke Frederick, who arrested them, extorted an enormous ransom in gold and forced the king to cede three western counties to Austria.” Hungary and his European neighbors..

is it me or is the mic switching volumes? great video despite it !

@KingsandGenerals

2 ай бұрын

Mistakes happen. Where did you notice it?

@aurianbuysschaert955

2 ай бұрын

@@KingsandGenerals it was quite prevalent during the whole video i think it might be on my end. i just noticed a change when closing a program. :)

One interesting thing I've heard but can't confirm is that the composite/reflex bows of the nomadic people were unsuitable for much of Europe, since frequent rains/humidity damages them, so they're much better used in drylands.

very noic

They learnt that they were approaching the land that would spawn the legend that is "Ronnie Pickering" and decided to cut their losses

@daarom3472

2 ай бұрын

y' kno whoi'am?

@sobolzeev

2 ай бұрын

No, that is a bad explanation. In fact, they did better: made one of the men of this land their ambassador.

that feels like a quality analysis. worth paying in my opinion

An interesting if somewhat unsatisfying and inconclusive video. My own pet theory is combination of two of these four. I think that the death of the Great Khan would have prompted messengers to be sent as a top priority, making it perfectly feasible that the message got to Batu while he was still in Hungary. Batu now faced a potential threat on his eastern border and now had a force significantly diminished by his Hungarian campaign. We know he was cautious in his dealings with his Mongol rivals so it would be perfectly consistent for him to play safe and conserve his strength for any threat from the east. I rule out the terrain and climate as any obstacle to the Mongols, and the idea of a "punitive expedition" - the Mongols simply didn't think of anything other than conquest.

@OhioDan

2 ай бұрын

"I think that the death of the Great Khan would have prompted messengers to be sent as a top priority, making it perfectly feasible that the message got to Batu while he was still in Hungary." To me, this is still the most plausible explanation. The withdrawal was too much of a coincidence otherwise.

Just remembered the alternative mongol invasion History they made on Wizards and Warriors. What happened to that?

@YuuSHiiiN

2 ай бұрын

It went to shit after having the Mongol become dumb and start fighting needless battles which were not in their favor.

@aburoach9268

2 ай бұрын

@@YuuSHiiiN it's not over, they plan to continue it, they're just spicing things up, to then the Reveal the true Imperial might of the mongols By sending another Huge Army group under Hulagu to support Batu's force, Instead of sending hulagu to the middle east Or at least that's my speculation

A few decades later the Mongols did come back and were decisively defeated by Poland and Hungary. So... was their intent different in the 1240s than it was in the 1280s? What changed that would cause the Mongols to come back and try again in 40 years when Europe was better prepared to face them?

@greatsarmatae

2 ай бұрын

2 entirely different cases, those in 1280 were neighboring Cumans in fact, not the old imperial host.

@suhelmallick

Ай бұрын

after subotais and jebe's death, they werent the elite they used to be@@greatsarmatae

Mongols hated being static or complacent, sitting upon a conquered land to chill. They were always on the move, it was one of the aspects of their success. Indling in Hungary surrounded by enemies who are camped in strategic castles would give chances of preparation to their enemies and also after a while the tale that they are unstoppable would quickly start to break.

Let’s get ready to dive in!

The Ecological Theory might fit why the Mongols never Finland. We never had grasslands, only forests. On the other hand it may also been due to economical reasons: there just weren't much to rob in poor Finland.

@laistvan2

2 ай бұрын

They have been neither North-Russia long but mostly steppe-zone and they were defeated also in Vietnam swamps...

They pushed onwards at even greater challanges. How many times they suffered major casualties yet returned against Mamluks? Delhi? Vietnamese? In Vietnam there was an even harder ecology, more casualties yet definitely tried more times at it than Europe. In Europe they didnt even suffer a decisive defeat unlike other examples. Long story short we will never know what their reasoning was.

@arda213

2 ай бұрын

@@randomuruk7230 You need to check the chronology.

The Doc. I need

I think the biggest knowledge hole consists of what the Mongol decision-makers felt and thought about the Mongol Empire, its neighbors, and so on at the time of the Mongol retreat from Hungary in 1942. The timing of the Mongol retreat from Hungary in 1942 also makes this question more challenging. The point of time when Ogodei died was also the same point in time in which the Mongol Empire was experiencing a transition between being a single-throne empire and the breakup of the empire into four independent polities. Up to this time, the Mongol Empire was still held by a "glue" consisting of commanders and administrators appointed by Genghis, such as Sudodei. But once these officials faded from history, there was not much glue left to keep the empire in one piece.

The Europeans learned how to fight the mongols. Mongols didn’t have siege equipment and high masonry walls offered some protection

Probably the great Khan remembered that he forgot the onions on the stove somewhere near Baikal river and urgently had to return

16:23 Batu should totally be played by Keanu Reeves in a Mongolian film

You should do why the Timurids failed to last long

Can you imagine if you had to travel all the way back to the heartlands of Mongolia.. Start From the frontiers of Europe.. Knowing that for the next few weeks or months of continuous riding it would take to get back “home” in a reasonable amount of time.. Oww

@josephphoenix1376

2 ай бұрын

But that is exactly what they do....

Quite intriguing. The idea of the "Great Khan death" had always seemed to me to be an established fact.

Yes i love this channels so much , i love the mongols and it's empire

"Bro, the food was better in China"

💚♦️Waiting for a video about the migration and invasions of the Magyars🏇🏻

Another two mysteries about the Mongols: 1 What stopped the Mongols from actually trying their luck in the Indian subcontinent? 2 How far the Mongols can go into Africa if they managed to get through the Mamluk Sultanate of Egypt and Syria?

@user-uj2tk2tv3z

2 ай бұрын

They lost against delhi sultanate in india

@lerneanlion

2 ай бұрын

@@user-uj2tk2tv3z I know that. But what I meant was what stopped them from launching another campaign, of course.

@user-uj2tk2tv3z

2 ай бұрын

@@lerneanlion maybe they didn't wanted to risk further loses

@laistvan2

2 ай бұрын

They didn't like hot climate. They lost against Japan, Vietnam, Delhi, Mameluks and within 100 year disintegrated and almost disappeared from most part of Europe.

Bro it’s definitely Ogedei dying, come on..

17:49 / 18:24

Really Hoping this is you guys getting prepped up to get back to that Mongol alternate history over on wizards and warriors! XD Ngl. It's the reason we subbed to W&W is the first place! It's our favorite thing on that channel!

*Yo Kings and Generals can We See a Video done on the horn of africa and the history of The Cushite Macrobians and The land of Punt* 👋👋

They even destroyed cities in today montenegro and reached Adriatic but no one mentioned this that they went that far south

@joebloggs5318

Ай бұрын

They went further than that. They met a Muslim army at Ain Jalut and got the shit kicked out of them.

@vladimirboskovic

Ай бұрын

@@joebloggs5318 im talking about europe but hey they did not have to worry about logistics

Interesting video. One thing I'd add is that relative to China and parts of the Middle East, Europe wasn't particularly wealthy back then. Less available plunder combined with Europe being so far from the Mongol heartland plus the Mongol forces getting stretched thin and continuing to face resistance might've convinced Batu to quit while he was ahead.

As Czech I must point out mistake in map that put Prague on Elbe river insted VLtava. On place wher town of Liberc is now

What? The Mongols left? As far as I know there is a facts based channel called Wizards and Warriors that covers the big Mongol Invasion of Central Europe. The series isn’t even finished yet, so the Mongols are still in Europe? 😱

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if it turned out they left only because they simply got bored?

@randomuruk7230

2 ай бұрын

No it would be stupid