There's like a billion planets, but only 18ish primarchs; The loyalty of a primarch is worth more than a planet.

@jamesjamka

Жыл бұрын

Each primarch is worth 50000

@hoked2194

Жыл бұрын

If the Emperor did assist Angron's cause, it would send a bad message to other compliant planets. No one wants to pledge loyalty to an Imperium that destroys it's subjects. Even though it could probably have been covered up like the Rangdan Xenocides and Alpharius.

@jamesjamka

Жыл бұрын

@@hoked2194 well the emperor could've just exterminatus the planet and wiped out all of the troops and diplomates memories

@hoked2194

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesjamka Yeah, it's a bit of a plot hole that'll likely get explained by "it was all a part of the plan" bullshit.

@SamueL-td7fb

Жыл бұрын

​@@hoked2194I'm sure the Imperium that has hundreds of thousands child super soldiers cares deeply about the love and loyalty of its subjects

"The Emperor is the greatest scientist in 40k!" Angron with his butcher's nail: 🍷🗿

@GunNutproductionsOG

Жыл бұрын

To be fair it’s not like there was any way to get them out of Angron but at the point he got the Mechanicus to start to replicate them you'd think the Emperor would be like “Don’t you fucking dare, I’ve punished my other sons for less”

@duyanhbui5386

Жыл бұрын

@@GunNutproductionsOG no one can save you form having brain cancer

@rowrowflo

Жыл бұрын

@@GunNutproductionsOG I’m pretty sure the only reason why the big E said no is because his son would have died if they removed the nails or a very high chance

@ridgefrost

Жыл бұрын

Perturabo had the ability to look at any piece of tech and instantly know how it worked and how to improve it and its said he got that ability from his father, every ability a primarch has is alot more powerful in the emperor so u telling me after studying angron's nails big E wasn't able to find a way to fix or remove them? and even if angron died in the process doesn't he have the ability to heal anyone from like anything?even literally bringing people back from the dead?, it would even be easier to heal a primarch cuz they all have a healing factor, some more so than others but they all have one It almost feels like the emperor honestly planned for the heresy to happen, he is a cold and calculated man but somehow hesitated to kill horus (cuz he is the son) what?, he specifically sent leman to go get magnus knowing the bad blood between em, despite being able to see the future he favoured fulgrim over the khan thinking the khan would be the traitor, bruh, its like his brain and powers didnt work half the time

@nopetrainconductor9840

Жыл бұрын

Well according to the books the emperor even tried asking others for help fixing angron but the pain engine has literally become his nerve system so any attempt to remove it or tamper with it would just kill him faster. On another note I believe when the emperor found angron he decided to leave him damaged so that khorne would have a less useable pawn

You just can't attack a planet that's joining you, yeah sure

@wadiyatalkinabeet2514

Жыл бұрын

*Exterminatus has entered the chat*

@MugiwaraZero

Жыл бұрын

Fulgrim moment

@SamueL-td7fb

Жыл бұрын

that's not even a 30k vs 40k thing the Crusade era-IoM did that shit weekly, instead of today's daily

@ninjabreadman8166

Жыл бұрын

Monarchia of my youth.....

@emiyakiritsugu6329

Жыл бұрын

​@@wadiyatalkinabeet2514 what's it?

Big E LITERALLY could have sent just 40 of Angron's Astartes or like....1 Custodes and helped Angron take the world in a FUCKING DAY

@SeraphimRoad

9 ай бұрын

Nah, no time. Emp had a meeting at 5. Palates at 6 and by 7 return to Terra to continue dabbling on his web way project. Emp is a busy man.

@lordlopikong6940

Ай бұрын

Angron allies weren't worth saving. But it was an important aspect to angron mental health. Big E should have just rescued everyone and when angron watches his brothers die from the effects of the nails. he'd want revenge on the world and boom angron kills the world and swears loyalty to the emperror.

@gigabuck9091

19 күн бұрын

@@lordlopikong6940 You forget that the primarchs was to be his generals, in big E mind how can such a creature who is mutilated and cant even conquer their homeworld campaign to the stars? He probably would have let him die in that battle and offered no help onlooking only to witness angrons death but at the last moment had a change of heart because of his humanity.

@Integritys_Sum

18 күн бұрын

Didn't he make a deal with the Chaos gods to let them take some of his sons? he was effectively selling his childrens souls.​@@gigabuck9091

@leovillant768

15 күн бұрын

Yes

I always say keep in mind that when GW created the basis of their lore they were just a bunch of guys who cobbled it all together after too many beers in their local pub after hours. And making sure it was just different enough to not get sued into oblivion by the Tolkien and Dune estates being their main concern. I mean, the angry guy is called Angron? They didn't put much effort into most primarchs backstories. And it could be a lot worse. The guy with the steel hands called Ferrus Manus got killed off right from the start of the Horus Heresy. At least Angron gets to still kill things.

@isiahalcindor6278

Жыл бұрын

I would agree with you if other primarchs weren't almost flawlessly written, i.e., corvus corax and perturabo, to name a few

@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623

Жыл бұрын

@@isiahalcindor6278 I wouldn't call it perfect written. Perturabo going rogue because he has a hissy fit with Dorn? I think the Black Library writers did a good job with him. But the whole Horus Heresy era as it used to be bears all the hallmarks of something written down over a pint in a pub on the back of a beer coaster. Not much thought went into it, because it wasn't that important. The emphasis was on gameplay. Lore obsession only came much much later. After which the damage was already done.

@jordcarter2359

Жыл бұрын

Angron is named after a bouncer the GW Devs used to know in Nottingham. They nicknamed him "angry Ron" hence Angron. You can look this up it's well documented.

@kuroshm

Жыл бұрын

@@isiahalcindor6278 yes, that’s because like the other man said, they’re all just blatant copyright infringement from better and timeless fiction/history.

@samiippotsuboku2580

Жыл бұрын

Still the lore is much more detailed and organized then comics be it DC or marvel So they did a good job

You can annihilate a planet that turned your kid into vegetable

@GamerGrovyle

Жыл бұрын

That requires caring about your kid

@orctrihar

7 ай бұрын

Wrong He could remove it, Angron refused.

@QuanPham-ty2xl

7 ай бұрын

​@@orctriharhe can't, if they try to remove it, he will die

@johnozzmond9728

5 ай бұрын

​@@orctriharIt's been stated that the nails are an older version that actually replaced good portions of his brain and are wired all through it all the way down to the brain stem. The version implanted in his chapter is removable. His is not, and in fact Sanguinius in their big fight actually tore out a lot of his brain when he ripped the nails out. Granted, he was a daemon by then, so that was a lot less lethal and it seems like he somehow regenerated the nails. Probably Khorne's doing.

Alternate Angron could literally save humanity by helping his brother's pain and preventing the entire heresy from happening. He's a support character basically a healer.

@bluelick7578

Жыл бұрын

So that’s part of the reason a lot of his brother can actually beat him like that? He’s a healer playing a melee dps? 😂

@johnclement189

Жыл бұрын

@@bluelick7578 basically yes, he was a chill and a noble person before the butcher's nail and helps people with their depression by absorbing them.

@synergy8879

Жыл бұрын

@@dia3803 angron with his over sized doctors bag in one hand and another with his phd in the medical field charging with his entire legion of apothecaries who are wielding bone saws and power drills

@halfknight2310

Жыл бұрын

@@bluelick7578 actually, yeah. That’s exactly it. He was meant to be the tank healer. But instead, he became a raging beserker. Something his own body and powers weren’t suppose to do.

@ForgottenHonor0

Жыл бұрын

Angron was a white mage. And you NEVER. FUCK. With the white mage.

Angron: "How could you do that, Father?" E: "Why is my Labrat talking?"

Imagine if the emperor landed on the planet and helped angron win the fight, angron might have been extremely loyal

@WhEnthusiast

Жыл бұрын

@@ReconCrusader ahem ahem ferrus manus ahem

@Kobble03

Жыл бұрын

A rebellion being doggedly hunted to the brink, and right before the go down screaming and swinging in a gorefest to make khorne blush, the radiant light of the Emperor basks over them as he teleports down to Angron, draws his flaming sword and together let out a stunning battle cry that immediately turns the battle around. God that would have been the dream for Angron, even if at the end only he and the Emperor survived.

@synergy8879

Жыл бұрын

@@ReconCrusader i’d take a tactical world eater over the iron hands. hell, i’d take the death guard, iron warriors, thousand sons or emperors children and swap for iron hands. the iron hands are the most replaceable out of all the loyalist legions.

@henrywhitmore8344

Жыл бұрын

That is called the “dornian heresery” a fan theory of if the traitors remained loyal and the loyalists turned traitor

@WhEnthusiast

Жыл бұрын

@@synergy8879 i wouldnt say that, they had fucked up the dg, ec and some other traitors after their father died, id just swap them because he dies so fast which in it of itself is just bad writting to me

probably every time Angron asked Big E had a moment of "which one were you again?"

The issue with the "Already Joining the Imperium" theory is that if they were loyal to the Imperium, then why couldn't the Big E or another primarch just tell them to stand down and let Angron and his warriors go? After all, they've already imposed their will far more readily and harshly on other planets, and you would think making a good impression on one of the emperor's sons would be worth far more to them than the compliance of a single world.

@ChillAssTurtle

Жыл бұрын

Because then thered be 1 less primarch to join the heresy n he and malcadors plan for it wouldnt come to fruition without angron helping horus get to terra

@AtheAetheling

Жыл бұрын

Compliance is vital though, and attacking a planet that has already accepted your rule is something that's rarely been done; it had the potential to cause problems further down the line. The Emperor has also consistently been shown to value humanity in large groups as well. And in truth the Emperor just probably thought it would be less of a headache if one of his sons was a bit mad at him for a while. He grossly underestimated Angron's hatred.

@I2dios8

Жыл бұрын

@@AtheAetheling Still doubt that, because attacking them isn't the only resolution here. If the Emperor told them to stand down and allow him to extract Angron and his warriors without a fight, don't you think they would do that? And if they refused, then they weren't really in compliance.

@slayer6498

Жыл бұрын

@@I2dios8 The warriors all had nails and probably wasn't worth the time and effort to extract them.

@superspies32

Жыл бұрын

@@AtheAetheling the Emperor built Imperial truth based on equality, science and no religious. He just use the first for excuse of burning those slavers and maybe 10000 years later IoM may become a better place than Tau

There's a short story about a custodian having a conversation with the Emporer about this. The Emporer claims that the butcher's nails would have already transformed Angron into an unthinking beast but the only thing keeping the last shreds of his mind intact was his fury. The Emporer states that, if he had saved Angron's friends on Nuceria, Angron would lose himself completely to the nails and become useless to the Emporer. So the Emporer chooses to give Angron a reason to continue to hold on. The Emporer makes himself the object of Angron's hatred so that Angron will remain focused enough to be used as a weapon by the Emporer, at least for a while, before the nails eventually kill him.

@ANTSEMUT1

11 ай бұрын

That only gets you so far and without any end to angrons suffering, he is just a sillier Doomguy.

@alleywaydude399

Ай бұрын

Doesn't he have like some of the best technology for current humanity and can straight up heal machines and ALSO beat a literal shard of the void dragon?

@dramsac17

Ай бұрын

@alleywaydude399 well... yeah but have you ever seen a tree grow through a chain link fence? Angron's primarch physiology has healed around the nails, integrating them into the structure of his barley functional brain. He should be dead already. Even the Emperor has limits and it's simply not possible to remove the nails without killing Angron. It's important to keep in mind that this story exists to explain why the Emperor allows Angron to end up the way he already is in the 40k timelime. Angron's story doesn't become more satisfying or less tragic if the Emperor removes the nails because we already know how the next part of the story must end. Angron becomes a demon of Khorne and he has the nails in his brain. It's fun to ask questions like: how different would Corax and Konrad or Guiliman and Perturabo be if they swapped homeworlds and upbringings? But ultimately it has to happen the way it does for them to end up where they must be for the setting to exist as it is. It's just nice to have some justifications for why certain things happen that otherwise don't make sense. Like why doesn't the Emperor heal or kill Angron. And this is why.

@alleywaydude399

Ай бұрын

@dramsac17 I feel like there could have been a far better explanation...I mean the emperor has created the custodes and countless super humans, essentially having mastery over technology that can alter genetics, biology, so on and so forth. Not only that, the technology he has is far more complex than the one that makes up the butchers nail. A little bit of surgery mightve done the trick but I guess an explanation is better than none.

@dramsac17

Ай бұрын

@alleywaydude399 the butchers nails are acheotech/xenotech they're actually extremely advanced and despite all of the resources of the Imperium/mechanicum cannot accurately recreate them. The versions that are implanted into the World Eaters after they find Angron are a primitive reverse engineered approximation of what they think the original butchers nails were but the only remaining example of the original technology is irreversibly entwined inside Angron's brain. This story is showing us how the Emperor really feels about his "sons." They weren't created to be happy or to be loved or to be cared for. They exist to struggle and to suffer. Their pain is less important to the Emperor than the purpose he intends for them. The fact that this reflects poorly on everyone involved is the point. The traitors need to feel justified in their rebellion. The reader needs to have reasons to both love and hate the Emperor and Angron depending on your own interpretation and philosophy.

I like to imagine that the Emperor was just really busy, running a very tight schedule for conquering the Galaxy, and so just didn't have time to deal with any more whining. "Look, I rescued you, gave you a Legion, and now I'm 20 minutes late to the invasion of Ruritania. Why don't you just say 'thank you' and then get the hell out of my face." AKA "Shit Father"

@moodyowlproductions4287

Жыл бұрын

Angron"I still hate you and screw you...father"

@bigmoe9856

8 ай бұрын

I like to think that Angron being the Emperor's Empathy made Big E astrocize him sense, you know, Emperor casted aside his more sympathetic side (Star Child) when beginning his rise.

If may suggest an opinion. The Butcher's Nails was a death sentence for Angron. It's suggested many times in the lore and Fandom at large that the only reason Angron survived as long as he did is because of his hatred for his father. What if that was the reason? To keep Angron alive as long as possible and thus useful to him?

@lordlopikong6940

Ай бұрын

Very possible, but if Big E really for saw the Heresy, angron becoming a prince isn't worth his controbutions during the crusade

The fact that nuceria is near Ultramar made me laugh, imagine Roboute find Angron Before Imperium Find Angron/ultramar. Imagine some Battlebonded Roboute and Angron

@maltheri9833

Жыл бұрын

Would've definitely helped Angron to have a close bro to tell him "Maybe turning your sons into blood thirsty maniacs in eternal pain isn't a good way to build your legion."

@slayer6498

Жыл бұрын

@@maltheri9833 I can imagine that maybe Vulkan tried to have that conversation with him and it ended badly

@TheBacknblack92

Жыл бұрын

Imagine the humiliation if the only primarch who couldn't take over his own planet before the Big E arrived has his planet absorbed by the only primarch to build his own interstellar empire

@TheBacknblack92

Жыл бұрын

@@maltheri9833 angron and rowboat would not get along due to the butchers nails. Angron would probably attack Gillettemas and then the full force of ultramar would come down on his planet. Bob Charles Guillieman probably wins that and then the emperor arrives and covers it up. He probably never even tells Bobby G it was his brother. We'd have 3 lost primarchs instead of 2

@clementbianchini8651

Ай бұрын

@@TheBacknblack92 sometime during the expansion of Ultramar before the meeting with the Emperor Nucerian high raider to their new overlord Guilliman: there is a feral best terrorizing the countryside, could you take care of it as a token of our loyalty? Guilliman: alright Then the Ultramar army lead by Guilliman proceed to kill Angron

It reminds me of that one comic where every Primach sits at therapy (or something like that) and the Ork was the therapist The ork asks: "Is there something that bothers that you can all agree on ?" Which all primachs reply with: "Father!" Which was so fucking funny 😂

I like TTS idea that the big E teleported Angron onto his ship by accident when he was going to just leave Angron to die.

@usuariopromedio963

Жыл бұрын

Realyyyy????.. Never see this episode Must be hilarious

@knightblade0188

Жыл бұрын

Wait what episode is this

@quesocoatl21

8 ай бұрын

@@knightblade0188 Maybe it was mentioned in a livestream discussion?

@orctrihar

7 ай бұрын

Nice

I liked Baldermort's idea, that he (the Emperor) knew Angron would resent him. But he saw it as the means to fuel him to continue living. Since at this point the nails couldn't be removed without killing Angron

@admech590

Жыл бұрын

I guess...but honestly, this isn't a life worth living. Everything hurt for angron...everything, except killing people in a blind rage, which gave him some sense of emotional post nut clarity that made him forget that his brain was mutilated (forgive me for being crude, but that's basically what his existence was like).

@jamesmahon6788

Жыл бұрын

@@admech590 I won't deny that, but it's definitely part for the course with the emperor cause he definitely is not a good example of a parental figure

@Neyreyan

Жыл бұрын

Meh, speculations since at this point the emperor could do almost anything. I am pretty sure regenerating nerve tissue was not very hard in the golden age

@jamesmahon6788

Жыл бұрын

@@Neyreyan It probably wouldn't have been an issue to deal with the technology of the golden age. But remember we aren't talking about a normal human, not even a mere space marine so it could be either near impossible or perhaps it'd take too much time, that the emperor didn't want to spend. But that's what's great about the lore, fans are able to speculate

@Neyreyan

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesmahon6788 i think its just a plothole. The emperor made 20 primarchs, probably a million astartes, the golden boys and "saints". Or the bigger theory is that the emperor saw the heresy coming and its part of his plan as malcador implied. Probably the emperor knows he will always fight the chaos demons if he wants to main his galactic empire and that the galactic empire is the only way for humanity to survive. Probably having primarchs be chaos god champions will allow for a solution to this dilema. I am pretty sure angron got cured of the butcher nails by the chaos gods so i doubt the emperor couldnt do it or transplant a new brain while his soul remained in the body. Technically they shouldnt have been able to do that to angron in the first place, konrad was considered the weakest primarch and he still managed to get control of the planet

Best theory for me is that the emperor knew that no matter what, a fixed amount of his sons would turn traitor. So he purposefully fucked up with the shittier ones to ensure that they fell to chaos and leave the good ones behind.

@maciejas2471

Жыл бұрын

And then Horus walks in

@40mm-Grenade

Жыл бұрын

​@@maciejas2471 The warmaster was guaranteed to fall to chaos wasn't he? It's better Horus fell than the lion. Horus is great, but he's not the best primarch.

@jeambeam3173

Жыл бұрын

​@@40mm-Grenade I think the Emperor couldn't see the fate of a few of his sons that being Magnus and Alpharius or Horus or maybe all 3 I can't remember

@citizenkhan4696

Жыл бұрын

@@jeambeam3173 Jagathai Khan was the one who truly was beyond Emperors gaze. Everyone thought he would fall to chaos.

@snaildude268

Жыл бұрын

​@@maciejas2471 erebus*

Emp: "Nah these guys would make terrible marines, the nails make them unstable" Also Emp: "oh you implanted even worse versions of the nails in all your marines and murdered the ones that didn't want them? Sweet"

@theanathema3062

9 ай бұрын

I don’t think I ever endorsed what Angron did to his legion?

Part two Erda. Even here, I shall not stop.

@citizenkhan4696

Жыл бұрын

Not canon

@guardsmenedwin6213

Жыл бұрын

@@citizenkhan4696 what do you mean?

@citizenkhan4696

Жыл бұрын

@@guardsmenedwin6213 Erda doesn't exisst.

@lordoblivion8038

Жыл бұрын

​@@citizenkhan4696if erda doesn't exist. Then how tf did the emperor created 20 primarchs to begin with? Do not give me bullsht reason of "Only emperor created 20 primarchs without erda" You do know human biology that man and woman NEEDS to create a baby right? Only other animal species can gave birth without a male

@guardsmenedwin6213

Жыл бұрын

@@citizenkhan4696 are you saying it doesn’t exist cause you hate the lore, that lore is iffy, or because retcon?

Alot of the primarchs had shit reasons to turn traitor but with Angron I'm just surprised it aint happen sooner

I would guess that the Emperor, saw what angron had become and decided that he wasn't worth keeping due to the nails which couldn't be removed and would kill Angron in a couple years. He saw what became of Angron and decided his loyalty wouldn't be worth it in the long run.

@historytank5673

Жыл бұрын

That’s what I initially thought too, but then thought, wait, how did those slaves escape?? They all had butchers nails so surely they would have a kill switch, so I think what happened was the emperor did help Angron, but when the rich elite saw this they actives the kill switch (they didn’t before because to them this must of been a great show with some risk) The kill switch kills all but Angron who’s memory is fucked, he only remembers what we see, the emperor tries to explain this to him but Angron is too angry to listen or see reason, also to make things worse the nails have welded themselves to his brains core making removal nigh impossible without fucking up his brain more which would either kill him or make him so brain dead he’s practically dead… or so useless he might as well be dead.

Angron probably wouldn't have join Big E even if he had helped and stepped in to intervene, the dude doesn't like kings or tyrants. Angron had to loose his brothers and sisters and have a chat with Khan before joining. There is another Theory that James workshop wrote Angrons lore very quickly while on the bus, hence the plotholes.

@trexpeliahelvetios2302

Жыл бұрын

I mean, he could kidnapped him AFTER that. Atleast, he would not despised him so much and didn't feel regret his whole life.

@monarch9522

Жыл бұрын

@@trexpeliahelvetios2302 true, but you could also reasonably say angron was gonna get his ass handed to him either way putting the emperor into a lose lose situation with angrons favour

@moodyowlproductions4287

Жыл бұрын

James workshop?

@SirKanti1

Жыл бұрын

@@moodyowlproductions4287 the bloke who made Games workshop.

@WarPigstheHun

Жыл бұрын

What bus?

I like to think that the reason why Big E didn't regenerate despite being a perpetual is a form of self-punishment for all the stuff he done.

@darksider2903

Жыл бұрын

He can't. He has to focus on his wounds to heal. But all of his focus and power being used to stop an endless tide of demons. He will heal in 1 min if someone fix the imperium's webway 🤔

@slayer6498

Жыл бұрын

@@darksider2903 With the imperium cut in half it is possible for him to be able to put more effort into healing himself.

@superspies32

Жыл бұрын

@@slayer6498 No, if he do that, the second Eye of Terror will emerged from Terra and consumed entire galaxy

@blacktemplarbarachel3387

Жыл бұрын

@@darksider2903 wouldn’t that just make terra get absolutely rushed by like all of the eldar?

@mekhismith2452

9 ай бұрын

Its implied that the reason He doesnt regenerate is because He's dead on that throne, like actual corpse, no pulse, dead, and that the "emperor" that giulliman speaks to is the Warp entity created by the Ecchlesiarchy. Cant remember where but theres a line that says something about His body being dead and His mind dying as well, so maybe his soul is just staying near his body since thats where the chair is

Angron wanted to die free. The Emperor denied him that. Then forced him to live knowing everyone he cared about was dead. At best, the Big E realized Angron couldn't live without rage. More likely, angry Angron is a loaded mad dog to fire at his enemies.

Big E: "Look, son, we have a schedule to keep, and I can't just stop to help runaway slaves."

@superspies32

Жыл бұрын

10K years later, after the fall of Cadia. Angron - as a titan-size Deamon Prince with the ability to respawned immediately on real world after be killed, with 50K CSM behind: looks who is in schedule now? I will use Failbadon as hammer to put 1000 nails to your skull and rip you out of that golden toilet for what you have done.

Since the butchers nails were slowly killing Angron, perhaps the "adrenaline rush" (or some other chemical) of hatred kept Angron being alive for longer. As long as Angron was angry, he could stay alive for a bit longer and keep the effects of the Butchers nails to a minimum.

@lordlopikong6940

9 ай бұрын

For a man named the god emperor of mankind and creating knowledge that stands the foot of technology, you can't remove a few nails in the brain? People in Warhammer legit have IA as brains or biotech replacements.

If Angron's army was saved and allowed to fight alongside his legion even without any marine augments Angron would be satisfied with his old warriors dying on his side and his anguish wouldn't reach the level of causing a major disturbance in the Warp.

I can imagine a man that rules a galaxy spanning specie has different priorities than your average suburbs dad

@DeuxExNoir

Жыл бұрын

I bet you would be just as retarded and treat your son like utter dogshit too, wouldn't you?

@jacobscott7261

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, like keeping his demigod sons on his side. He has thousands of planets and 20 primarchs

@Commander_Boreale

Жыл бұрын

@@jacobscott7261 the Emps didn't care about keeping them on his side. All he expected was total unquestionable obedience, and if a Primarch or a Legion can't do that, they get purged, like the 2nd and 11th.

@jacobscott7261

Жыл бұрын

@@Commander_Boreale Ik, that’s my point. Expecting unquestioning loyalty is one thing, but if you kick a loyal dog too many times it’ll bite. You can’t expect people to remain loyal if you don’t give them SOMETHING in return. Love, respect, basic kindness. Honestly, if the emperor had just respected his sons the heresy probably wouldn’t have been nearly as bad.

@bluelick7578

Жыл бұрын

Vader has entered the chat

The Emperor could have just barged in the middle of the fight and say "stop fighting!" and they would stop. 🤷‍♂️

@xuanphongnguyen1104

4 ай бұрын

Instead of they stop, they stab The Emperor😂

Big E can simply order that planet DON"T touch Angron's friends or facing exterminatus.

Man really decided winning the loyalty of a planet was more important than the loyalty of a primarch

I actually never thought of the fact that the world could have been accepting Imperial compliance. That being the reasoning would probably set off Angron even more.

Y'know a lot of betrayal could've been avoided if he just had a five minute one-on-one talk with each of his sons

Angron did nothing, poor dude.

The Emperor is like a boss who says, "We're a family here" until you need something.

@Tyranid_Hive_Mind

8 ай бұрын

They only want the family discount

I think the Emperor treated him badly because Angron wasn't "perfect" anymore because the people of Nuceria (the planet Angron landed on) had literally cut parts of Angron's brain off so they could make the Nails fit on his brain. Why would the Emperor want to save such a barbaric planet that had mutilated his son. Also because of Angron's rage, the Emperor had to show him who was the boss to try keep him inline.

@Equal88

Жыл бұрын

That planet deserves exterminatus .

@blacktemplarbarachel3387

Жыл бұрын

Wow saying that makes the emperor sound like a slaanesh follower if he wants his sons to be so “perfect”

@thefigther1549

Жыл бұрын

That didn't happened with the maniac of Kurze Big E just was an asshole because he can and will, even Mortarion was treated better and that man is a literal bag of walking shit

@Xer405

Жыл бұрын

​@@blacktemplarbarachel3387 Because he didn't want his son to be mutilated? They literally removed pieces of his fucking brain 😂

@oceanberserker

Жыл бұрын

Yes. And look how well 'showing him who's boss' worked out.

I like Baldemort's explanation, that Angron would not last much longer with the butcher's nails regardless and the only way to keep him alive was to fuel this all encompassing rage and give it a target, so that Angron would be quite literally too angry to die until he had his revenge against the Emperor

Angron was so unfortunate he did his rebelion during the only day global friendly fire was diasabled so Emperor had no choice 😓

"You can't just attack a planet that is in the process of joining you" The Inquisition: "wait what?"

Isnt there a theory that E knew a set amount of his sons will turn out to be shitheads, so he treated the guy with nails in his brain whose power is empathy badly, making him turn to chaos?

@ChillAssTurtle

Жыл бұрын

Not a theory, its canon.

@sovietnugget8237

Жыл бұрын

Pretty sure that's canon actually

@superspies32

Жыл бұрын

Not only primarchs but maybe a lot of citizens. So he begin project Webway to cut human from Chaos. Then if he succeed, he may began to purge psykers since their existences now caused more trouble than benefit.

@BM-wf9uf

Жыл бұрын

Originally Angron was supposed to be a god level empath. It was his Primarch power as you say. But the butchers nail destroyed that, it cut Angrons connection to the warp off. Its also why unlike the other Primarchs Angron didn't have an all imposing aura.

In Baldermort's "Primarch Project" video [@~54:00] a custodes guesses that hate gives Angron life. Nails without anger is apathy There's also the theory that Angron had a strong sense of justice, and saw the crusade as a failure. Why give Khorne an intact demigod So Angron is either a traitor, a wreck, or a wrecked traitor. The poor bastard.

We have to be missing context that will likely never be explained because securing loyalty from Angron would have been the advantageous move and a super strategist like the Emperor would know this. It's almost like he wanted his son to hate him...

I feel like, the Emperor could've teleported ALL of Angron's warriors away, then faked their death, maybe by like, using his psyker powers to alter the perception of reality for the attacking arming, convincing them they won the battle and burned all the corpses.

@christopherholmes7324

Жыл бұрын

I could live with that.

@stingerjohnny9951

Жыл бұрын

But that would require him to make a smart decision that wouldn’t fuck him in the ass later, and the Big E would see that as pure heresy.

I assume it has something to do with that little mystery trip to the warp that the emperor took and never elaborated on to anyone

I think the emperor wanted to break angron because he saw in angron a man he couldn’t control. Without the butchers nails and a fractured mental state, he would’ve never tolerated the crimes of the greatest tyrant to ever live let alone serve him. Primarchs like Guilliman and Vulkan cared about the common people in terms of effective administration or economic prosperity, but Angron cared about the common people in terms of political freedom, which is the one thing the emperor would’ve never allowed. The emperor wanted a butcher, not a freedom fighter.

The planet already pledged allegiance to the emperor. Couldn’t he have called off the battle, and potentially mediated peace and pardons for Angron’s forces?

@oceanberserker

Жыл бұрын

He could have, yes.

I like Baldermorts explanation that the nails are killing Angron quicker if he has nothing to hate or no reason to be angry, so Big E basically gave Angron a reason to hate and therefore extended his life. With the extra time Big E could study and eventually remove the nails which we all know, he couldn't in the end. Of course Baldermort explained it way more thorough and cinematic and there are also a lot of unanswered questions in this theory, for example that Big E couldn't have known all that just from orbiting the planet.. but yeah, Big E is either a huge d*ck or a somewhat caring father depending on the interpretation.. mostly the first though.

@gweds

Жыл бұрын

Yea I like this reasoning as well

@BM-wf9uf

Жыл бұрын

Based on Guilliman's conversation with Big E after his resurrection I think i'm sticking with Emps being a d*ck lol

A primarch’s loyalty is worth the compliance of 1000 worlds

You can't just attack a planet that has pledged allegiance to you. Emperor Palpatine: Something something Lord Vader! Something something my beer!

I read that without something to almost constantly piss Angry-angry-Angron off the nails would have tortured or killed Angron, to save his son he became his reason to hate.

@oceanberserker

Жыл бұрын

If that's E idea of making himself out to be a martyr, he failed. MISERABLY.

Real reason: Angron didn't activate his plot ability to solve the problem before or even after Big E showed up, so he lacked the will to wield the power of a true Primarch.

Since he was predetermined half his sons to chaos anyways, he treated some of them like trash so that he would be sure to know who he would lose.

When a planet that pledges allegiance to you destroys your son's brain and turns him into a gladiator slave, it's not the worst thing ever to attack them.

@halfknight2310

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. If the emperor was a better and true father, he would have been like “Sir, the planet has just pledged allegiance, you can’t just attack them.” “… tell me, do you see what they have done to my son… they enslaved my SON! They carved his brain out and mutilated him and you expect to show mercy?! KILL THEM ALL!” The emperor could have done that. He could have sent the war hounds (former name of the world eaters) or even his custodians to help Angron. Hell, he could have just gone down there himself and fight alongside his son. But nope. Big E decided to be an idiot and is somehow surprised that Angron turned traitor.

@g34rg0rl

Жыл бұрын

@@halfknight2310 Well said!

I have a theory that he did indeed help Angron but the planets elite used a kill switch to wipe out the reveling slaves (reason they don’t do this sooner was becouse it was a good fun show to watch and then the emperor ruined it) Obviously Angron survives cause he’s a primemark but it takes a toll, his memory of his encounter is fucked, so he only remembered the bits that we know, not the part where the emperor desperately was trying to save him (either due to love or seeing him as a great tool or mix of both) This could also explain why the butcher nails could not be removed without killing Angron, perhaps they had become part of Angrons brain function meaning removal was literally removing a key component form a brain.

@thedyingmeme6

Жыл бұрын

Interesting theory, ny guy

"You can't just attack a planet that's joining you" Cough cough Monarchia cough cough.

I feel like attacking their own planets is half of what the Imperium does

Nuceria was a Roman town near Pompei, it was destroyed in the volcanic eruption. It’s pronounce new - ser - eee- ah

If he was as a tool to the emperor... Imagine a tool that is wearing out in an unfixable way, but you can still get a couple extra uses before it breaks. Are you really going to take the time to polish it? So why then would he seek to make happy a tool that was not long for this galaxy, but he could still get a few extra 'compliant" worlds out of?

@admech590

Жыл бұрын

Because he's a father? He can't just ignore his problems because he's too busy.

@autobotskyflame6287

Жыл бұрын

@@admech590 Tell him that 🤣

@thewildcardperson

Жыл бұрын

​@@admech590 yeah you dont know any real powerful people do you there differnt then normal people they know what they build will have influence over millions so there business is more important then family

I have been having a lack of good warhammer 40k but this man my saviour gave the best content ever

I would go with " shit father " for $1000, Majorkill.

*gives list of earnestly plausible reasons for not saving Angron's slave friends* Or he could just be a bad dad.

@oceanberserker

Жыл бұрын

The latter. Definitely the latter.

Well there is the theory that the emperor knew heresy would come and that they would have half the legion against him and that he saw angron failed rebellion as a sign that angron would not be a primarch that useful by his sides and that it was better to have the seed of treachery in him so that mean he would keep a better primarch by his side. You treat the one you think are less worth so they go in the rebel camp

The last part is an understatement. You know what is the real heresy? Having such a dysfunctional family.

The Big-E couldn't get the nails out. Too far gone

emperor treated some of his sons like Mr. Rogers from "will you be my neighbor" (bald, purple snake dildo, the emo kid. chocolate man, Harry Potter) and to some like Amber Heard to the drunk pirate (Walking Abortion, Space Mongolian, paper skin, Bete Iron Man, Pope). so obviously he wanted those Primarchs to betray him and was giving them reasons to so. SO THE QUESTION IS WHY ???

@hmroid6884

Жыл бұрын

All according to plan

My theory: The Emperor knew from the get go that the 12th Primarch would betray him. Angron himself stated that without the nail he would have abbandon the great crusade a long time ago. He trated him like shit because he was gonna lose him anyway.

@ohamatchhams

Жыл бұрын

So The Emperor is either confirmed that either with: -Emperor being neither omnipotent and omniscient that will outrages the Imperium LARPers -Games Workshop writers that wrote these chunk portions of the lore are just putting shit writing That's it, everyone will neither like nor prefer the real answer either way

@Chaplain_Valen

Жыл бұрын

@@ohamatchhamsshit writing, you can tell because it’s far more common than you’d think, eg Erda, Neoth name drop, reflection cracked, etc.

the big E knew half his son's would flip so he tried to make the shit ones flip

BigE's ambition, power, and genius are absolutely eclipsed by his cruelty

Nuceria = "Nick-area" Apparently.

@ColdNorth0628

Жыл бұрын

Nah. Thats some busted english.

@chainsawsubtlety9828

Жыл бұрын

@@ColdNorth0628 I don't know what the Aussies speak, but it's not English. I mean, what the Hell is a "drongo"?

I will say this about Big E, he was not perfect but I like to believe that deep down he loves his Sons even if based on what Guillimen has said, he only sees them as tools.

@slayer6498

Жыл бұрын

I want to believe that was just a "In the Moment" situation and he does care for Robot Gorillaman, in all fairness though he did treat some of his sons better than others.

@jonathanj.7549

Жыл бұрын

@Slayer649 I hope so as well, and I do agree he had favorites like Sanguinius but he seemed greatly hurt and disappointed by what had become of Mortarian

@slayer6498

Жыл бұрын

@@jonathanj.7549 Tried to please him by banning psykers but that failed, and gave the title of Warmaster to horus and he went traitor.

Yeah you can't... Ten thousands years later inquisition purging a world for mistake: "Oops"

"You can't attack someone who pledged allegiance to you!" The Thunder Warriors: "Oh, NOW you can't, I see how it is."

*cocks bolter* Did you just question the God Emperors actions?

To say Angron got thd crap end of the stick is an understatement.

Those gladiator inspired soldiers look awesome.

In short the horus heresy is just one massive misunderstanding

The Emperor already knew what would happen...

WOIZ IZ GUNNA KRUMP DAT GIT WAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH

Warhammer 40k can pretty much be summed up as "Dad Emperor being shit dad"

The biggest Bad Dad there ever was

Big E: "I created you and saved you" Angron:" and I'm gonna make that everyone's problem."

This is a "emperor first, dad second"

Major I love the shorts they are great for quick answer questions that arnt deep enough for their own videos

Ngl you had us in the first half.

Goge Vandire would like a word with you on that compliance bit

"Probably a sht father" he *IS* one

Angrons actions made sense. Emp was dumb as hell with him

@FormerGovernmentHuman

Жыл бұрын

Made sense, true enough, but he could have used that pain to liberate other worlds like his and save trillions of slaves. Instead he walked around like a depressed pitbull ripping out the throat of any of his sons that got to close. Then he passed his problems onto his sons. You know what as I spell it out, it unfortunately makes way more sense than it should. Victims almost always go on to create more victims.

@marvinlalandos773

Жыл бұрын

​@@FormerGovernmentHuman hard to think rationally when you have to live your life with your brain being constantly tortured with extreme and excruciating pain

@nimmha6708

Жыл бұрын

yeah it made sense how he made his own sons kill each other as a punishment for failing. F*** Angron, he's a clown.

@oceanberserker

Жыл бұрын

​@@FormerGovernmentHumanBetween the damage done by the Nails and E's UTTER shittiness, how could anyone have expected anything less? Angron was screwed from the start and every person who could've helped, LEGITIMATELY helped him, only hurt him further or just plain refused to do so. And the moral of the story, kids, is that when E fucks up, he fucks ROYAL. And when it's his fault, it's REALLY his fault.

@orctrihar

7 ай бұрын

Except it's lie

Plausible reasons.... that damn a compassionate yet already devastated man's soul to doom.

” …that he would be able to beat the answer out of his father”. Horus: 💀

He made him show that learning early you are the NUMBER one and others give the life for you is UP

Normal day in warhammer

This makes a lot of sense when you really think about it

I feel like he just couldn’t be bothered since he probably already knew about the butchers nails anyway

Finally, majorkill shorts

“Beat the answer out of his dad” The emperor:💀

The emperor doesn't see his sons as actual sons. They're just tools.

And there is the theory of he wanting Angron to turn traitor too.

I'm sure other planets would understand Big E coming down to help his son the the planet was about to kill