One thing that is rarely talked about, and is surrounded by misinformation when it is talked about, is how malleable SAT scores are. I taught at two SAT training centers in China, and one thing that quickly became apparent to me through that experience is that any person, even if not very bright, who sits through enough hours of instruction and takes enough practice tests can increase his/her score by many hundreds of points. I have met so many Chinese students who go to multiple prep centers and also take prep courses at their schools -- and this is after spending ten or so years in an educational system that is a test-taking boot camp. By the time they take the SAT, many of them have taken dozens of practice tests and have sat through over a hundred hours of prep courses that have been refined over decades by an industry worth billions of dollars to super efficiently teach students the knowledge and strategies they need to crack the test. If you administer the SAT to students who haven't spent an ungodly amount of time and effort prepping for it, perhaps the SAT serves as a good proxy for IQ or intelligence. If you administer the SAT to students who have made a mini-career out of prepping for it, it's not so indicative of raw intellectual ability.

@PharaohsNews

4 жыл бұрын

Super Cajun Yeah it’s just taking the drivers permit test at a certain point. Especially in a place like China where children are expected to devote hours to studying daily. Once you accept that, then you realize it’s about who’s taking it more serious, I.e. who has devoted more study time to it.

@cayanaraycaudhuri

4 жыл бұрын

Well, true.

@sheps5656

4 жыл бұрын

But then surely they fail at Harvard or wherever... It's the being a graduate that gives the second important data point

@MrNicoJac

4 жыл бұрын

@Sheps But hardly anyone who got accepted into Harvard gets kicked out. You have the rare drop out along the likes of Jobs/Gates/Musk/Bezos etc who still end up being famous. But most of the lower echelons just coast through Harvard with B's or C's while their parents put pressure on teachers not to fail their shitty kids.

@PharaohsNews

4 жыл бұрын

MrNicoJac right and only Steve Jobs parents weren’t incredibly wealthy beforehand though. Musk, Bezos, Gates, all old money. Look it up.

You can have an extremely intelligent person (exclusive ed) but if they have no social skills or dont have the ability think outside the norm they are a dime a dozen. Standard genius is over rated.

@tanveersingh8290

4 жыл бұрын

I would agree with you

@ezioauditore5616

4 жыл бұрын

you need social skills to find the cure for something, except talking to other who are in the same working field

@cjzanders5430

4 жыл бұрын

My girlfriends brother got a 36 on the ACT and works at Burger King. It’s sad.

@danbailey8513

3 жыл бұрын

@Derek Zhou spoken like a true genius

@mujtabaalam5907

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, that's why Ivy Leagues filter them out.

A good portion of ivy league students have legacy and come from families that have been wealthy for many generations. I don’t think its fair to say that everyone who is in an ivy league college is a genius, but ones lifestyle growing up and how they were raised is definitely a big factor.

@Mina-np5pl

2 жыл бұрын

He didn't say everyone was. He said that they were very likely to be.

@LordAus123

Жыл бұрын

@@Mina-np5pl could you translate very likely into an objective measure for us?

@jamess.2491

Жыл бұрын

completely wrong now, unless your parents donate millions of dollars legacy doesn't mean shit. actually, being a first-generation college student counts for much more than legacy now.

@jacob9673

Жыл бұрын

This depends on your level-none of the the PhDs there are going to be legacy.

@FM-dm8xj

Жыл бұрын

so if thats true, then they would have to drop out for failing to meet academic standards lol. This is ivy leauge....theirs no need to make anomalies the norm to cope bro

Or mommy and daddy cheated and paid the school admins. 😂😂😂😂

@cannabisconnoisseursclub7554

4 жыл бұрын

@@dezertson2011 a bunch of elites got caught if you didn't know. Im sure there were many morevthat havent been caught. Those schools are good for nothing more than association with power. Big shifts in the way education is achieved in the future. ✌

@PharaohsNews

4 жыл бұрын

dezertson2011 yeah no John McCain’s daughter on the view and every politician’s kid goes to Ivy League off merit. Give me a break. It’s really not that rare and rich people have been funneling in money to private schools to get “favors” in return FOREVER. To just look at whose in these “esteemed” institutions and say: “wow these are really smart people they should lead society” is something that was maybe true in the past but nepotism has corrupted.

@rainbowcake4771

4 жыл бұрын

Bull Dozer Yet majority of Ivy League schools are still predominantly white. Affirmative action is just a way to pit minorities against each other, and so universities can cover their obvious racism. It only helps blacks and Latinos and disqualifies Asians, Arabs and other minorities. Besides blacks and latinos don’t even apply to Ivy League schools as much as other races.

@dektran4843

3 жыл бұрын

endowments are legal bribes

@jyotiradityaguleria907

3 жыл бұрын

or daddy donated a building

SAT and ACT are not a fair test of ability to succeed, you don't need to be good in every subject to be successful. In fact being good at one thing(one area such as math) is a better indication of potential).

@bluevan12

2 жыл бұрын

There is an obsession to be good at many things when in truth most people are average or worse at doing most things and should concentrate on one or two they can do really well.

@donaldthompson7766

Ай бұрын

@@bluevan12 Our ancestors had be good at everything to survive. That's why we are here.

1) Not all IVY league student are high-quality student, the majority get in because their parents had "connections. 2) The government is an example of an institution run by incompetent people. 3) You can be a really great intelligent student but you don't end been IVY since you lack the funds and connections. 4) School is not about intelligence is about following instructions without doubting is the right way.

@saga2795

4 жыл бұрын

The truth is very few students who are accepted into these selective schools have “connections,” nor do Ivy Leagues only look at test scores and GPA. Almost all of their applicants have near perfect grades - what they’re really looking for is something that makes that person unique, whether if they’re a music prodigy, started their own business in high school, was a captain of a sports team, or won multiple awards for one reason or another. You are correct, however, that it is more difficult for underprivileged kids to get into these universities and that students with connections have a higher chance of getting in, but again, most of the students who attend Ivy League colleges earned their way there.

@saga2795

4 жыл бұрын

Long Schnozzed Tribesman Your logic here is completely flawed. How could the _majority_ get in because they aren’t white if the _majority_ of most, if not all universities in the US are comprised of white students?

@86SuperRay

4 жыл бұрын

@@saga2795 he does not care about logic. he is plain racist and probably gets worked up whenever he sees a minority on campus LOL

@rlkinnard

2 жыл бұрын

you don't get good at science without critical skills.

@Mina-np5pl

2 жыл бұрын

The MAJORITY of ivy league students aren't there because mommy and daddy paid. Those people do make up part of the class, but they aren't the majority. Do you actually know anyone who went to these schools?

I did my masters at Yale and the quality was way worse than in my home country. American education system has test based structure while European is more argumentative. Bc of this I had a way better background than the us students. It was the easiest year of my education and assumed to be a top school world wide

@agentsmithofthematrix5111

4 жыл бұрын

U.S should be capitalized

@gerttopmuller

4 жыл бұрын

Große Böse what are you talking about? Every country in Western Europe is a free marked. They definitely have more social programs than the US but some EU countries have better environments to succeed as an entrepreneur. That is just straight up fact. If you are actually a German you would know this.

@gerttopmuller

4 жыл бұрын

Intense you have misunderstood how progressive taxation works. You do not pay 75% of everything you earn. Au contre (pun intended) - it is progressive to your earnings And the top level of tax in France is like 45%. At least when I lived there. I’m quite certain that no country in Europe has a 75% tax even for the richest people.

@brettstefanishin574

4 жыл бұрын

Große Böse A lot of European countries also have a culture of not bragging about ones achievements, while in the US you’re encouraged to take pride in your accolades. Capitalism is more than just an economic system, it’s a cultural model that encourages excellence and competition in all aspects of life, because that’s how you get the best of everything.

@brettstefanishin574

4 жыл бұрын

In a lot of socialist countries, there’s a culture of keeping your fellow citizens “in check” as in, making sure that guy sitting next to you doesn’t get too far ahead. There’s a reason why America is able to attract the best and the brightest from around the world and it’s because Americans love and glorify winners. A guy like Donald Trump would be hated in Europe.

Ivy leagues' purpose is for rich kids to meet one another and develop relationships between families and create business deals. You don't actually learn squat from the professors and resources are probably as good as any other college. If you're a poor kid going into an Ivy League, chances are the only thing you are going to get is a job being a fairly high paid worker, but don't expect becoming an executive in a fortune 500 company unless you come from a family of influence and used your stay to develop relationships with other rich kids and their families.

@hehe-zt4zy

2 жыл бұрын

how do you know?

@yamchayaku

2 жыл бұрын

@@hehe-zt4zy take a wild guess

@itzelmontalvo6645

2 жыл бұрын

@@hehe-zt4zy They probably went to an ivy.

@michaelmurphy326

2 жыл бұрын

i went to one and the b school...yes in any setting 'networking benefits'...its 'not deals' at this level...its often simply obtaining an interview...you will get in the door but once in its up to you. I have a theory about alll the preasure cooker education received....i feel that these grads are the 'shock absorbers' for capital...often in the most demanding, long houred, areas....there is a whale of a price to pay for the money and lving in an overpriced place like NYC takes so much of it away on basics. These universities are also in a downward spiral culturally...when i see a North Korean escaped former sex slave who went to Columbia complain that the bs being taught in these schools....class/race warfare a la Alinsky...and knowing that Columbia apologized or ignored the reality of 50 of Stalin....its difficult to say 'this was the finest education' available...but i went there before they became CRT...i was deeply appreciative...it was an unholy 'ass kicker' yes they will flunk you out...but that..then....i wouldnt have done it any other way...

@archdukefranzferdinand4429

2 жыл бұрын

I would say there’s occasional acceptions to this case but I also agreed. It’s all setup so the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor or in this case middle class stay middle class. If people think these Ivy League schools are about intelligence and these noble principles they always claim to be upholding then they’re kidding themselves. If you manage to work your ass off you might pass the barrier of entry in the intelligence department. But if your family doesn’t come from money then the tuition is what you have to worry about. Usually not a problem for the richer ones who attend. See how they filter things ….. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Extrapolating someone's IQ based on their SAT score doesn't consider the intrensic bias of the test. Also, there isn't one way to define an Intelligence Quotient

@Macheako

4 жыл бұрын

Vocab doesnt equal intelligence lol

@gerttopmuller

4 жыл бұрын

UnleashedPro926 totally. I’m a big fan of some of Jordans views but as a psychiatrist he should know better. He probably does and that only makes it worse

@maguar5027

2 жыл бұрын

@@gerttopmuller The fact is that IQ(regardless of your personal definition of what intelligence is or what it should be) is the greatest predictor of career success and life satisfaction measured scientifically. People are afraid of this fact because the idea of something being assigned to you at birth, being unchangeable and having such a strong impact on your life scares people so that they are in denial about it. I think that Jordan Peterson of all people knows this more than anybody being a psychologist. He knows people want don't want to hear it yet he still says it

@y_olk

2 жыл бұрын

@@maguar5027 Having IQ being the greatest predictor of success in a world where people select for it despite evidence for or against it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

@maguar5027

2 жыл бұрын

@@y_olk We don't always select for IQ. In fact there have been studies made that tell us for example that in interviews someone is way more likely to be chosen if they are for example tall, good looking and extraverted which in most cases has nothing to do with how competent they are at that job.

Why dont people understand that there are infinite types of intelligence. And you dont need an IQ or IVY to succeed. You can become fuckin anything. It is all about the impact.

@travelpro23

2 жыл бұрын

This!! 💯

@therealwewin

2 жыл бұрын

I found intelligent life

@roya8683

2 жыл бұрын

I wish I could agree with you, but some thing I found is that to achieve success you need smart people to trust and follow you, Ivy League schools give you a halo of credibility. you don’t NEED an ivy league background, but it definitely helps.

@Mina-np5pl

2 жыл бұрын

It's technically possible, but much harder, especially the further up the ladder you're trying to go. You want to get a solid, well-paying computer science job? Sure, you don't need any specific school. You want to lead a department at Google? It's in your best interest to aim as high as you can.

It varies, but at the end of the day it’s you that matters. Your traits. You are special. No school will ever instill that. It’s a school with strengths and flaws. A lot more flaws than people realize

This guy makes a great point. You don’t get into an Ivy without stellar stats and these usually in most cases translate into highly successful intelligent people who are able to think on their feet and problem solve. This is exactly what any stellar company worth its weight wants in an employee.

@chrisle2674

2 жыл бұрын

Veterans with degrees are number 1 recruited group right now. Spoiled kids from Ivey league have high call out rates and bad attitudes

@Rin-gn5by

Жыл бұрын

you do realize that the real world of elite college isn’t meritocratic…. right..? And that test scores aren’t an accurate measure of intelligence….They’re outdated and full of regurgitation not critical thinking…

If I'm the Harvard administration, then I see this reasoning as an indictment on the education at Harvard. If employers hire someone because they were able to get into Harvard, they're making that decision on the basis of what that person accomplished before coming to Harvard, not because of the education they received while there.

@LordAus123

Жыл бұрын

It’s about the network, right? Harvard is intensely aware of its reputation and arguably it is its reputation that matters most - everything coming out of the university is respected worldwide. Certainly having sway with the decision makers of the world is the greatest asset of a Harvard education, right? Information itself is too democratized now for any institution to honestly claim it can impart superior theory or intellectual development to others in its class. Harvard is all about the weight of the club - if you’re accepted, you matter. Period. At least, that’s what these companies see.

It's interesting to hear people talk about ivy League students being highly intelligent. In my school, we learned to be intuitive, learn fast, deal with very complex material, process huge amounts of data in record time. But above all, we learned one valuable lesson which is keep low profile and keep learning 😉

@thesecondbot8270

2 жыл бұрын

Which school you were at?

Looking forward to the full interview.

@Butterfly-mk9pj

3 жыл бұрын

Lana!!!!!!!!! I am your subscriber.

@watchingyoutwo3800

2 жыл бұрын

If the professor is all knowing then who gave the colleges professors this knowledge? If the Angels where the all knowing then who gave them the knowledge? The Elite are the Angels servants! The Elites believed they where given a verbiage of their words to keep mankind from acknowledging that GOD encapsulated the earth cause they were removing the DNA of God and replacing strain of it to accommodate their own agenda. You are all under their personal effects as they have already carried you from generations to your death! The elite don’t care cause they want to know they believe they are superior to mankind even when angels have no reason to expect they the elite where using each other for profit! Elite have lost there right to even know that they are all in the Metaphysical realm which is “Space Force “ which the elite have hidden that everyone has been bought and sold when they piggyback your cellphone to benefit off of the lives and watch your family’s and foreign customers use this verbiage to perks to incriminate the people of the United States and profit sorry all the elite are no longer on the top of the world cause they are servants of the angels that lied to them.

@NazriB

2 жыл бұрын

Lies again? Ivy Fund

We don't have SATs in Mexico, but if you want to get into a public university, you still have to do an admission exam, top scores are the ones that get there, but that's the easy part, you still have to pass all subjects to graduate. Private schools, you only need to pay and you're in.

@kasparovthegodofwar

4 жыл бұрын

Bad Xerge can low income families send their kids to university?

@JR-mk6ow

4 жыл бұрын

In Portugal the best Colleges are the public ones. There are national admission exams and only the best get in. That way you cut a lot of bullshit. There's only one or two private schools that are worth it. If you are paying there's no way to get in the public universities. Also college only cost you 1k € per year (privates are between 4k - 6k)

@Xergecuz

4 жыл бұрын

Edward Anthony Yup, you can pay for it on your own, tuition per semester will go from 3,000-6,000 pesos and minimum wage is ~5,000 pesos a month. If your average is above 9.0 you get 50% discount and if it's above 9.5 you only pay administrative costs.

General knowledge is not used for IQ tests. IQ tests abstract thinking and reasoning and is 'culture fair/neutral' which is why some children under 5 can score very highly; they do not know anything about the world yet but their problem solving talent is high. Very confused about why Jordan said this, he should know better.

@samscott6880

4 жыл бұрын

"General knowledge is not used for IQ tests" The WAIS-IV has what can be described as a general knowledge test that assesses your long term memory.

@coolgrandeur

3 жыл бұрын

I understand your view, as problem solving ability is fluid intelligence aka IQ, while general knowledge is learned knowledge ie crystallised intelligence. Since Jordan didn’t say that SAT directly tests for IQ, but said you can derive an IQ score from it, that probably means it can be acquired from the elements that test problem solving

@DorianLS

2 жыл бұрын

As Sam Scott correctly observed, the most important and commonly used IQ test, the WAIS, has 11 scales. One of them is General Knowledge. If you think about it you'll see why general knowledge is related to general intelligence. The more intelligent you are, the more you will observe, the more you will read and the more you will pick up from the world around you. There is also a Vocabulary scale. The same principle holds here: the brighter you are the more you will pick up the meaning of words from their context. It is true though, that those brought up in disadvantaged situations would be at a disadvantage with regard to both these scales.

@phasematerialsresearch9319

2 жыл бұрын

Because Jordan Peterson is not as intelligent as his acolytes believe he is.

In the late 60s, I studied for the SAT by using study guides available in book stores for very little. No tutoring, no practice tests. I did very well in verbal and English Achievement, so maybe that reflected my IQ - but my math score was very average despite studying and practice tests on my own. All this over-tutoring and prepping is really not necessary to do well in the SAT. The SAT reflects verbal and mathematical talent, and material you have covered in class or can figure out on your own. At least in my time it did.

I believe the real quality ivy league student has their own business not working for someone else.

@adwaye

4 жыл бұрын

Everyone works for others. Some employees earn millions a year. Some with own business barely earn 40k. Own biz is not for everybody.

@timmcdowell4092

4 жыл бұрын

@@adwaye spoken as a true proletariat

@therealwewin

2 жыл бұрын

@@adwaye nothing better than being your own boss.

i don't think they hire because of "iq". they hire because these students usually have a top notch alumni network and are usually willing to work their asses off. emphasis on usually because history has shown there are enough students that just got in via wealthy parents and shady deals. than again, with parents this powerful and wealthy, you usually have an even more interesting network.

If someone from a private university that isn’t an Ivy League graduates with a better gpa and degree than a Harvard student and they both apply for the same job, Would you leave the person with the higher degree just because the other person came from Harvard. That is just rubbish. The university a person attends should not be a determining factor for if he or she may get a job. If that’s how the companies actually work then we might as well return to the aristocracy period. Since that’s what you mean. Might I also remind you that Ivy League schools cost a lot, that is why mostly only rich kids get into that school. Your mindset on this matter is clouded and you need a change of view.

@Mina-np5pl

2 жыл бұрын

It depends on the university. It's disingenuous to act like the GPA has the same value everywhere you go. At lower-ranked schools, the standards are set lower, the class progresses through the material in less depth and at a slower pace, and the other students aren't as high-achieving. It takes less work to stand out in a place like Fresno Community College than it would to be the valedictorian of Harvard, where many students are very accomplished and driven.

If you’re thinking of a career with work life balance and experience life without focusing 100% on the materialistic rewards which some consider achievements ..... stay away from those Ivy League school and BIG companies .... working 40 hours a week, commuting 10hours and sleeping 40 hours ...that’s already 90/168 hours a week. More than 50% of time is spend for this and you only have 40% time for excercise, food, family , friends , entertainment......it’s not worth your life.... that’s excluding overtime at work and working on weekend.....make less money to earn more time for yourself is a good bargain....

@Traumatised311

2 жыл бұрын

Making less money isn't an option for those who buy above average cars , travel abroad alot and have more than 2 kid, most parents work so much so they can give their kids a good life style

@rk8946

2 жыл бұрын

@@Traumatised311 there is always an option ….. there is also always a reason….those who made the choices knowingly cant play victim, they pretty well knew wat they signed up for….

@Traumatised311

2 жыл бұрын

@@rk8946 that's true but common sense is not common unfortunately , people have 3 kids then say we can't afford the childcare so my wife is a stay at home mom cause that's a better financial decision , or they splurge money , also if someone buys an average car and makes good investment they would get better returns , if they have one or two kids wife can work when they go to school , less hectic schedule , but they sign up up stupid things, I can't believe educated people having more than one kid in America like come on u guys, u want careers and also 3,4 kids 😐🤐🙏

@therealwewin

2 жыл бұрын

Finally someone with true intelligence.

I agree with a lot of this but the claim about SAT being a proxy for IQ is absurd. I’ve definitely read that the biggest determinant of SAT score is your parents’ income.

@C_R_O_M________

4 жыл бұрын

Connor Hawley is it possible for a very low IQ person to score very high on an SAT test? I highly doubt it.

@danielle4855

4 жыл бұрын

Connor Hawley Can you explain?

@innercitadel3279

4 жыл бұрын

@@dezertson2011 no but you have better resources to succeed

@innercitadel3279

4 жыл бұрын

@@dezertson2011 I'm saying if your poor you don't have enough resources. Most people in ivy league schools r from well off zip codes. I'm not saying they are smarter .

@innercitadel3279

4 жыл бұрын

@@dezertson2011 I'm talking about Americans not Indians

So why does Harvard openly discriminate against whites and Asians in favour of low to mediocre performing blacks and hispanics?

@lembafranck3490

3 жыл бұрын

You are the epytome of selfhatred dude I will pray for you

I can answer this for you. It’s a quick and easy way for HR to recruit kids. Ivy kids are no different than kids from regular schools. Maybe the only difference is SAT and ACT scores, but it’s not gonna help them with real life problems.

@destruction1928

3 жыл бұрын

What's a real-life problem? Very hard to determine, since what some people take 2 decades to solve, some people do in 2 minutes, if we were still solving life problems we would never send a rocket to the moon, we ara far away ahead of that, not even close...

@chrisleeeee7702

2 жыл бұрын

@@destruction1928 fun fact, one of my friends who nailed everything in an academic perspective, who’s so good that I can’t even dream to compete with, she was crying so hard today, because she couldn’t get her ielts test booked. In the end i had to book the test for her. In any academic sense, I should never be accepted to a university that’s better than hers, but I still am the one that can get things done. Maybe this is what real skills are?

@therealwewin

2 жыл бұрын

@@destruction1928 you can have a degree but if you don't know how to be honest you're pretty much worthless.

@Mina-np5pl

2 жыл бұрын

But SAT/ACT isn't the only difference between the kids at all. Usually they also have much better writing skills, lots of extracurricular activities, leadership, and some kind of interesting narrative that resonates with the admissions committee. All of that PLUS the SAT/ACT does show that the kids tend to be very motivated, hardworking, talented and smart. The bitterness in these comments is sad. I didn't even go to an ivy league and it's not hard for me to see.

@keep1treal61

Жыл бұрын

Yup that’s true but these universities don’t teach common sense. Most of which don’t have. They rely on pictures

The way schools admit applicants is completely different than how companies hire applicants. One uses grades and test scores and the other uses job skills, work experience, personality, how well you interview and having connections help. The way he suggests employers should hire is like a man choosing a wife based on how much money she makes and what she does for a living or a woman choosing a husband based on how young and slim he is.

Peterson is right to point out that it's better to have the smartest rather than the dullest people in leadership positions, but he's wrong to assume that having the smartest people in leadership positions is better or equal to having the wisest people in those positions.

great saying... so straight forward... I like it

Peterson’s point is well taken. I’m sure those schools offer a good education, but practically all of the students are already outstanding people when they arrive. If you get somebody who’s smart, ambitious, driven, and maybe a little vicious then as long as you don’t screw him up too badly he’s still going to be those things four years later.

How are SATs a measure of IQ? I know people who scored well on these exams simply because they had individual training each evening and weekend. That's like saying we have the best wr in football because we have the fastest player in the league. It's not that simple and if this guy had the "problemsolving" skills that he claims he's looking for then he would know that. A test can't measure a persons desire to work hard and develop his/her skills. We need to drop these antiqated forms of entitled measurements. Let's examine people holistically.

@SevenththLetter

4 жыл бұрын

I typically like to hear Jordan speak, however, on this topic, the host (Patrick) is testament to what Jordan said in this snip as NOT being the case. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but it appears that the folks with the most tenacity and willingness to work hard are the ones that are truly successful.

@C_R_O_M________

4 жыл бұрын

He said it’s a (good) proxy. Hence he highlights a correlational relationship. He is right.

@oyasoominasai6306

4 жыл бұрын

C_R_O_M__________ Bruh... so now everyone that scores below the Ivy League standard for the SAT is essentially are incompetent?...COOLIO

@ubermenschexplorer4910

3 жыл бұрын

Lol good luck with that non-objective approach! It would likely have more bias

@Mina-np5pl

2 жыл бұрын

How do you suggest that we measure people, then? The process is already holistic. It isn't just about grades, they also look for extracurriculars, difficult circumstances in life, leadership, etc.

1) Standardized tests are generally very culturally biased and 2) Harvard in particular (but this is applicable to all ivies) have factors that allow otherwise undeserving students to get in, e.g. legacy system, athletic participation, relation to staff, relation to donors When all of these factors are considered together, it becomes abundantly clear that graduation from an Ivy league institution is a poor proxy for intelligence

@jasonpark4293

Жыл бұрын

Your logic in this paragraph is a good proxy for your poor intelligence.

@imhopelesslyaddictedtofent4266

9 ай бұрын

@@jasonpark4293 lol found the guy who went to harvard

The fact that legacy applications and candidates from ivy feeders have a greater absolute probability of getting into these ivy schools does bear the question though. Given a choice of merit or money, will these "institutes of excellence" not be willing to compromise on meritocracy? Honestly, just dive a little deeper in any aspect of today's society and you see how hollow everything actually is.

On the one hand it's a tragedy for a person to persistently try for jobs beyond their IQ level but on the other it's wrong to tell a person they are unintelligent.

Right. Going to an Ivy League school proves not only that you’re educated... but that you are capable of achieving very hard things.

@urosuros2072

Жыл бұрын

30% of Harvard student got in via "special program" meaning their parents are either very famous and influental or they paid a lot of money to get in even tho they didnt have grades good enough

@bangstar719

3 ай бұрын

@@urosuros2072 where did you get that info? show me the authentic source of students getting via those "special program". Besides, Harvard is need-blind, which means that "Your financial need and your aid application will never affect your chance of being admitted to Harvard."

Ivy League schools go by the student parents names more than SAT scores.

A very interesting perspective to hear. I like when people attempt to make the case for why traditional education has any validity in today's world because we have people left and right becoming millionaires on the internet without ever going to college let alone for some highschool. I still don't think college should be what the prices are for admission and truly wish they made you think more about things that make sense in the real world and is always up to date, but that's why one day I still believe they'll be forced to only do only education and make it a very affordable subscription model that if you want access to it, it's there and far more accessible to all.

SAT is not a reliable proxy for IQ as it may be thought out to be. At this point, it is simply an indicator of who studied more for it. So it's still valid that it may be an indicator of diligence and wealth (for professional prep).

I thought they read your essay and decide if you match their diversity quotas

@86SuperRay

4 жыл бұрын

is this why the over half the ivies are white? but but but i thought whites were being discriminated against???

@littletath

4 жыл бұрын

Yup me an Asian is crying bc there is a specific quota that’s lower than the rest😭

@yellowballoon4143

3 жыл бұрын

@@86SuperRay I lost brain cells trying to read and comprehend your comment. America is majority white by quite a sizable margin so it would only make sense that most if not all colleges except for HBCU'S would be majority white. There is already hardcore evidence that Harvard is trying to push diversity so much that they are purposely turning down over qualified white and Asian students to try and take on more students from other ethnic backgrounds.

@86SuperRay

3 жыл бұрын

@@yellowballoon4143 the biggest benefactor of aa is white women

@yellowballoon4143

3 жыл бұрын

@@86SuperRay Yea, too bad we're talking specifically about Harvard and not AA as a whole. Way to try and switch lanes.

Honestly I have 0 problem with that, it just completely makes sense.

Ivy League: Touching Ivy sap alone can cause contact or allergic contact dermatitis, which is a very itchy-and uncomfortable-rash. Contact with English ivy can also cause swelling and shortness of breath.

The baseline employee just has to be so much more justified than “he has a great personality”

I had an ophthalmology consultant who wanted to work in private clinics in UK such as spa medica as they pay amazing hourly rates compared to the NHS however the competition is intense. He was boasting how he has earned his medicine degree from Oxford and blah blah I told him let me forward your CV in a weeks time the clinic replied “ Doctor doesn’t meet our requirements and is not suitable for the job “ Long story short it doesn’t matter where you study from

Where is full interview?

@toyota4x4legend

4 жыл бұрын

It comes after the short teaser highlights.

I thought that the SAT prior to being recentered, so pre-1995, was correlated with IQ, but anything past that doesn’t correlate. Some high IQ societies use SAT scores prior to 2005, so perhaps there’s still some correlation of SATs from 1995-2005, but none that I can find use SAT scores past that. Is this not true? Am I misinformed or is Peterson wrong in saying that IQ currently correlates with SAT scores?

@samscott6880

4 жыл бұрын

Back when the SAT was taken without any aids or tools?

@dathunderman4

2 жыл бұрын

He’s not wrong as we’re talking about a correlation. A correlation doesn’t have to be a perfect 1 to 1 linear relationship, it can be weakly to strongly correlated. I think it’s reasonable to assume that IQ and SAT scores have at least a weak correlation.

"SAT is a proxy for IQ" I think you mean "proxy for means to study for the SAT" .

I want to study in universities like ivy league, stanford etc. But gre,toefl scores are mandatory here.I am not financially able to pay the application fee for TOEFL,GRE exams (even if I get a fee waiver). I'm not able to pay applications fee of these unis. There are so many intelligent students who are studying in normal colleges due to their situations. These types of top colleges are for intelligent+wealthy family students.

"first of all" it does happen, with alarming regularity.

1st of all this correlation used to be the case but manny years ago the way SAT is scored changed and now correlation with intelligence is much lower 2nd 30% of Harvard student got in Harvard via "special program" meaning their parents are either very famous and influental or they paid a lot of money to get in even tho they didnt have grades good enough. So 1/3 of students did not even deserve to be there Not even counting people who get their degree because of sports etc...

This is touching on something I have always wondered. Peterson said that companies hire Ivy League Graduates because the admissions processes at these schools has already done the weeding out for them. Ok, so if someone is accepted to an Ivy League school but does not attend an Ivy League School, should they indicate on their resume that they were accepted at a prestigious school? Do, or would, companies consider just the acceptance at the school as grounds for hiring those employees ?

@barryfitzhugh8739

11 ай бұрын

YES, most definitely, in my humble opinion, obtainment of an Ivy League School Acceptance {LETTER } in 2023 and beyond [assuming clean criminal record & verifiable community interaction] to be valued at $235, 837, 934. 99 over a 7 year period following completion of a Bachelor's Degree in Business Administration from a nationally accredited university.

@michaelterry1000

11 ай бұрын

@@barryfitzhugh8739 Thanks, my question was an honest one, I honestly do not have a strong opinion one way or the other. I have discussed this issue with friends for years. Would you go so far as to say that someone who was accepted to an Ivy league school, but never attended, is in a better position in the job market than someone with a completed degree from a state school? Everything else remaining equal of course.

@barryfitzhugh8739

11 ай бұрын

@@michaelterry1000 JOB MARKET ⁉️ The probability of a High-Tech trained millennial who earned an Ivy League acceptance letter becoming an Owner/CEO of a multimillion 💵💰 startup limited liability corporation increases exponentially with the notable inclusion of an Ivy League acceptance letter Critical Thinking Prowess.

@t.s5806

8 ай бұрын

A lot of people choose schools like MIT, Stanford and Caltech over ivies. And for good reason.

Good connection means get hire.

Ivies get your foot through the door but that’s it. Almost all ceos are not ivy grads. I work for Deloitte and most upper management positions are from non-ivy schools. It’s overblown.

Also a true story. THE IV League education system on this planet is named in honor of Alan Iverson. He attended every single one of my kingdom creation classes for twelve thousand years. Isdaore- he has won Olympics- plays on the expert basketball league- wrote portions of the bible- held many "suffrage" conversations and promise for punishment for both the African slave trade and the Jewish holocaust and upon returning home will be offered a permanent position on Isadores royal court now known as the 16th chappel. God has a couple different chairs for him to consider and he is pretty much qualified for any chair that he choses. Frankly- he deserves it and he earned it.

It's not difficult to bribe your way in or be part of a certain family. I refuse to hire Ivy League.

This is absolutely true. Except when it has a percentage of acceptance that is invalid or nepotistic because of money.

The SAT is not a proxy for IQ. If it were, then formal instruction and dedication to studies would be irrelevant; the largely congenital nature of intelligence would prevail and allow indifferent students from poor-quality schools to achieve scores just as high as those obtained by the most dedicated students from the best schools. But of course, that really doesn't happen. Still, large data sets lend themselves to overbroad and dangerous conclusions like Peterson's. For example, suppose we administered IQ tests to two groups of people: (1) all American adults who are presently employed; and (2) all American adults who are presently unemployed. Doubtless, the first group would have a higher average IQ because the second group would contain far more people with serious impediments: dyslexia, mental illness, drug abuse, alcoholism, etc. But of what value is the generally higher IQ of employed group when assessing an investment banker who became unemployed two months ago? Can we reliably conclude that his IQ is likely to be lower simply because he's in the unemployed group? The point is that human performance is deeply affected by time, place, and circumstance and that people succeed or fail for different reasons, so drawing broad-stroke conclusions about large groups is stupid. I've noticed this even in my own work as a lawyer. Believe it or not, here in New Jersey, we sometimes encounter people who are associated with organized crime. although many of them are rather wealthy, virtually none of these people has a college degree, and many dropped out of high school after getting terrible marks. Still, a wildly disproportionate number of their children have attended elite schools and joined elite professions. And no, they didn't buy them in---not directly anyway. Query: how does the son of two dropouts win early admission to Columbia? Because raising a kid in a wealthy neighborhood with great schools will raise academic performance regardless of heredity. Consider in this vein George W. Bush. Your ears tell you that he's a factory worker. Yet he obtained a very good (if not outstanding) SAT score: 1200+. What conclusion can we draw from that? Is Bush simply very good at masking his intelligence? Or did enjoying every socioeconomic advantage known to man help an average person achieve above-average test scores?

If that the case then Google , IBM, and apple should start making college degree a requirement for job applicant. But then you have Bill Gate, Zuckerberg, and Steve jobs richest people on earth who don’t have or didn’t finish their degree.

@laylaphan7095

Жыл бұрын

yes but these people left Harvard.... not some random unknown college. They did not drop out on a whim, but because they had a greater plan for their future.

@paulsharma4807

3 ай бұрын

@@laylaphan7095Steve jobs did not go to Harvard

@bangstar719

3 ай бұрын

@@paulsharma4807 not all people can demonstrate their inner intellectual curiosity and personality. The thing was, "Steve Jobs later explained that he felt the college education he was receiving was too expensive for his working-class parents and that he didn't see the value in it at that time."

Why should you hire Ivy League graduates? Not because they are the smartest, hardest working, but in order to get in to Ivy League now is more important not WHAT you know, but WHOM you know.

Well, a bit out dated. They reduce Asian sats. The reduce white sats. The increase Black sats by a lot. So how does this work for knowing you hired the best of the best?

Not the case, people develop on college too.

When parents understand how phenomenal their child is to get into the paid Masters+Phd program at Columbia University. I feel like I did it. LOL

The thing is, the USA is a land of marketing genius.

How is he defining incompetence towards the end of this video? Elitist mindsets make me absolutely SICK. 🤮

@BeastReview

2 жыл бұрын

What do you mean?

@abelievereverrising283

2 жыл бұрын

He didn't say that non Ivy's are incompetent

Not all Ivy school have low acceptance rate. Caltech and MIT are more difficult than most Ivies.

Why did the Ivy League graduate bring a ladder to the bar? Because he heard the drinks were on the house and thought his diploma would help him figure it out!

None of Ivy League students could ever be the next luis Miguel, Jose Jose, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, frank Sinatra, Freddie Mercury. Because singing talent is not like iq those singers were born with natural talent for singing. You can’t teach natural talent for singing. You are born with talent

because they are the best at what they're hired/studying for probably in the world.

Very true, top selective schools picking the top students in achievement thus ave student at that school will be more successful than average student at non selective school.

It’s very easy to get into a IVY LEAGUE school. Take 12 credits on a non matriculated basis, get straight A. Then state that you wish to matriculate toward a degree program…you’re in. All you need to do is demonstrate that you can do honors level coursework.

@MattGarcyaDC

4 жыл бұрын

lol

@rlkinnard

2 жыл бұрын

it is not so easy to get into harvard that way.

@Mina-np5pl

2 жыл бұрын

This tells me that you have no idea how these processes actually work. First of all, getting straight As is not easy, especially if you're in a decent school where the standards aren't very low. There are also TONS of kids with good grades in AP/IB/etc. programs and only a few seats. The grades alone are not enough to get accepted. Typically the selected students have a lot of leadership, a compelling narrative, and interesting extracurriculars that they show commitment to.

@kalitor217

2 жыл бұрын

@@rlkinnard For you perhaps before anyone else it is that easy all you have to do is prove that you can do honors level work in fact that’s one of the criteria for people who wanna do MBA to remote learning on Harvard‘s degree coursework that’s online look it up do your homework instead of shooting off with your mouth

@kalitor217

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mina-np5pl it’s true A’s are hard if you’re stupid but if you have reasonable intelligence and you work hard Ace or quite easy stupid people can’t learn no matter what so you’re right in that respect with respect to getting into schools if you’re going to a school and a traditional level yes but there are many ways to get a college degree and you don’t always have to do the four years live or on the campus sort of thing a lot of people were doing they go to school at night and or a lot of people go online the idea is to get a degree not to necessarily have the college experience you want to get the coursework you want to get to degree online is the best way or night school or adult education especially continuing adult education there are many ways to skin a cat narrowminded people always see obstacles which is why they’re easily stumped

Hombre meritocratica vale, pero que tal a precios proporcionales a los ciudadanos normales para que al menos se puedan plantear ir y no quedar fuera porque no quedan becas, ese es el privilegio de algunos, que tienen mas posibilidades por su clase ya de inicio, y su dinero no es su inteligencia

Most people buy their way into an Ivy league... Jordan is pretty much wrong here. There are very few slots for real merit students + fees are prohibitively expensive for most people, even after they make it on merit. There are very few ivy league schools that waive of fees for smart candidates.

the amount of assumptions and generalisations in his claims makes me doubt his credentials as a rational psychologist. - is the sat score the only criteria to get in? - is the sat score the right reflection of intelligence/IQ? - are all companies that hire from ivy looking for high intelligence, or they value social and interpersonal skills more? - do people with low IQ and high quality of education have a higher chance of making it to IVY than people with high IQ and low quality of education? to find the answers, you just have to look at any batch sample from ivy and track their economic and educational background, I assume a sample would consist more of basic IQ, high quality education than high IQ and low quality education.

But sat score barely matters. Most kids with high sat scores get rejecged. Its the bare minimum

He talked like only ivy league students are smart or are the only people who should benefit from society

@Soeales

3 жыл бұрын

He sounds like he got a stick shoved up his ass. He thinks SAT scores are everything.

@TaylorJohnson1

3 жыл бұрын

No he didn’t.

In this case I agree with JP... especially since I got into Harvard the hard way (i.e. no SAT prep, no tutors, no admissions advisor, sending in app at the deadline, arguing during the interview, no sleep 😴, valedictorian, tons of extracurricular leadership).

@jgc1077

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, you're a real hero, pal.

@paulrivera5231

2 жыл бұрын

Jealousy, jealousy... misery, misery

@jgc1077

2 жыл бұрын

@@paulrivera5231 Ad hominem arguments occupy a pretty low station in general, but the you're-just-jealous gibe stands out for being particularly lazy and desperate. You're a self-congratulating doofus, and there are plenty of reasons other than jealousy to find that loathsome.

@paulrivera5231

2 жыл бұрын

You deserve the congrats since that reply is the most important thing you do in your pathetic, useless life. I mean doofus, wow that’s great for a four year old, but it sounds so sagacious coming from you.

@jgc1077

2 жыл бұрын

@@paulrivera5231 You write like an imbecile. How many times did you check “Hispanic” on your application?

Was it impossible to get in outside of a high SAT score? What about the rich people who paid to get their kids in? How many of them are there? Could you address this Jordan?

@ubermenschexplorer4910

3 жыл бұрын

I am not Jordan but let me address. First of all even if those with low SAT scores did get in-and if you are implying they are incompetent- then they will most likely fail when the sweeps of higher cognitive ability is needed. Essentially, in the long term they suck.

As always JP is giving all the right explanation.

An example of society in which incompetent people succeed and are put in front : Romania 2019

@babyyoda4831

3 жыл бұрын

Most eastern Europe

@dariacostea3278

3 жыл бұрын

Vrei sa te referi la lume in general stai linistit ca nici americanii sau orice alta tara sunt mai rasariti

come to INDIA ONE SUCH THING IS KNOWN AS IIT

Their staff very refined, they refine their own sugar. They are not wild flowers lol.

Multinational corporations hire the BEST available Ivy Leaguers First 🥇 because it exponentially increases the profitability achievement of the corporation as a whole due to the fact the Ivy Leaguers are coming in with a mindset of the corporation genuinely valuing his formidable skillsets to exponentially increase the Global Marketing Presence 💵 💰 of the corporation in ⁉️

Lot of people salty about Ivy League schools..why?

Robots basically

Problem solving ability U said

Guwahati University.

Endowments and legacy admissions... I wouldn't hire an ivy league student.

This makes a lot of $en$e! 😎

Nobody understands what JP ils saying, even hé doesn't seem yo. Getting into an Ivy league Scholl is not a mater of intelligence or consiensiousness. Those are juste détails, parts of a much bigger picture Getting in here is about DRIVE. Thats what they look for. Its the single best indicator for success. Driven individuals are thé most likely to produce the best results. They become the best athlets, lawyers, politicians, journalists and entrepreneurs

The SAT is a proxy for IQ? I mean I went to an ivy league and I am somewhat of an imbecile, so there's that

"Incompetent people who do nothing succeed ... that cannot happen ..." Oh yes it can! Come to Brazil, you will see the impossible come true!

@chrisle2674

2 жыл бұрын

Happens all over the world. this guy is trying to make Harvard rich. he is lying

@bennettbullock9690

2 жыл бұрын

@@chrisle2674 I'm not sure if he's trying to make anyone rich, but he is certainly a bit naive. Incompetent leaders are the norm in my experience.

@Michaelatkins15

2 жыл бұрын

@@bennettbullock9690 then they are not so incompetent as you think lol

@therealwewin

2 жыл бұрын

@@bennettbullock9690 only incompetence I see are college kids who think they paid their dues and demand prestige everywhere they go. Worthless as far as progression. You call these leaders?

This wasn’t a very logical take...

"Incompetent people who do nothing - succeed?" - sums up Russia / FSU pretty much

Working with some of these people… their arrogance was too great for them to learn anything from a veteran. Oh well you want to learn the hard way? Learn the hard way I guess.

1:48, Peterson says America is "essentially Meritocratic" Really? Get the f**k outta here!

@RobertSmurda

3 жыл бұрын

It is mostly meritocratic. If you get a 1600 on the SAT, you should get better scholarships or get into a better college.

I would take this 100x more serious if you some groups didn't pay or use connections to get in😂

John 15:10

200k for a degree that's puts you in a job making 100k maybe, lol. Take 100k and invest in 10 stocks. 2.5% gains is $2500 a day! No degree on earth pays that. Stay broke and fooled if you choose.

@hakans9205

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah cuz you can make 8000% annual returns, lmao get a grip

@umarone85

2 жыл бұрын

@@hakans9205i I've earned 7% in a day on my portfolio silly jerk

Damn I wish I could redo high school so my SAT score could be high and I wouldn’t have to be going to no community college now 😢

@late2school835

2 жыл бұрын

They are ppl who have gone from community College to ivy. But think of it this way you don't have a pile of debt on you, it better to go to a good state school than ivy

@akjdhajkdjhaghjkadh9804

2 жыл бұрын

my friend got into UPENN and didnt even submit their scores. plus, money doesnt matter. as long as youre happy

@danielkim3525

2 жыл бұрын

I've seen firsthand people who first went to a community college, transitioned into a decent university, then ended up with a well-paying job. So, they really just ended up saving a lot of money because they ended up with the jobs that they were targeting regardless of the university they attended. Also, keep in mind that the majority of Americans don't even go to college. Don't lose hope.

@jordi2146

2 жыл бұрын

You’re fine ppl go from community college to ivy and other colleges just grind and get out

@davontawilliams3958

2 жыл бұрын

@@jordi2146 im working on that I’m a big procrastinator and was worrying about chasing tail if you know what I mean which I learned my lesson, as you can see I did bad in high school which lead me to a community college and now I didn’t do so well this semester and it’s my first time back on campus before the pandemic happened I couldn’t do the online classes so I took two semester off which held me back from graduating on time and now it’s about to end. I might take summer classes and winter classes so I could make up the credits missed and graduate faster so I could transfer. I have no support I have to motivate myself I’m the first one in my household that is trying to graduate college and now that I got a full time job it’s making it harder to do the work I didn’t do through the semester so I could pass which is my fault but we live and we learn. 😢

essentially, meritocratic....right

@oyasoominasai6306

4 жыл бұрын

And we wonder why society is messed up. When he said we don’t want “incompetent” people to run society he’s essentially calling everyone with an SAT score beneath the standard of an Ivy League school incompetent. Apparently incompetence is now measured by a test that is very segregational. COOLIO

@ubermenschexplorer4910

3 жыл бұрын

@@oyasoominasai6306 Yeah, better that, than to risk assessing someone non-objectively. There is a reason why we have state examinations, IQ tests(use by military) and various other objective measurements. I am not saying these are “perfect” measurements I am saying it is the best we got to assess someone. :/

do big companies hire benzo addicts?

And half a million in debt 😃😃