Because they long for the ritual, they long for discipline, the beauty, and the rigor of worship, which protestantism is SORELY lacking.

@youngalek4434

Ай бұрын

Truth is the main thing us Orthodox long for☦️ Christ has but ONE bride

@billmartin3561

Ай бұрын

I had beautiful liturgy and worship in the Episcopal church. But I found the TRUTH in the Catholic Church.

@emilianoking9400

Ай бұрын

@@youngalek4434Christ does have but one bride, His elect people. Praise be to Christ who came to save all those whom the Father gave Him!!❤️✝️

@youngalek4434

Ай бұрын

@@emilianoking9400 which is the Church, not an invisible “something” of “born again” people.

@emilianoking9400

Ай бұрын

@@youngalek4434 just because the church is not a specific institution does not negate the fact that Gods people is a group of people whom God has saved from all different tribes and tongues. If you look at the apostolic fathers. It’s clear that the Catholic Church was the church of believers around the entire world. Look at the Polycarp prays

After a while of searching, i found a Baptist Church that lifts up church history, the traditions and ordinances of the faith, The Lord's supper and baptism, as well as missions and spring Churches in Haiti and Jamaica financially and in other ways. It leans more reformed but has a great balance of making sure the layman understand Scripture, the churches history and our duty to fulfill the great commission

@Savedbygrace22

Ай бұрын

Sounds like my church! Praise God🙏

I think y’all need to dig deeper on what Tradition means to a Catholic. It isn’t just about singing old music for the sake of it being old. It isn’t about “going to church” in a “relic” as one of the guests called it. To be fair, growing up Catholic in the 80’s, I didn’t know either. Now that the world is in a tailspin, all of us are coming to understand what the Tradition actually means. Holding on to the TRUTH of Jesus. It is the only thing that will save us.

@FalconOfStorms

Ай бұрын

Holding on to the truth of Jesus Christ is what I do as a born again Protestant Christian.

@PatrickSteil

Ай бұрын

@@FalconOfStorms You might do so... but do all other who follow protestant principles? Does protestantism have anything built into it to keep people from incorrect assumptions and interpretations that lead them to stray from the Truth? Is it Biblical to divide the Truth of Christ into many different "traditions" teaching opposing things?

@FalconOfStorms

Ай бұрын

@@PatrickSteil all of the One True Churches, from Mormonism,.to Romanism, to Eastern Orthodoxy, all have at least as much heresy and errancy as Protestantism as a whole. It's wild when people who were ruled by female prostitutes for half a century boast that they don't have female priests. The problem terminally online One True Churchers is that they put tribal affiliation above Christ. This is why they can never accept the spiritual catholicity of the actual one true Church -- the entire Body of Christ. Nothing I can say to a One True Churcher will get through their trash tier Catholic Answers arguments because it's not about facts for them. It's about finding identity in the group.

@FalconOfStorms

Ай бұрын

@@PatrickSteil How much is it divided within your specific One True Church? Lecture me when there's an abortionist in my church and no Joe Biden in yours.

@PatrickSteil

Ай бұрын

​@@FalconOfStorms on this point, we are in complete agreement. Biden does not embody Catholic principles. His policies and statements are a scandal to anyone who identifies as a Christian. But hear me out. If a Protestant concludes that abortion is morally permissible and uses the Bible to substantiate their claim (following their tradition of sola scriptura), they are left without a central Church authority to correct them. This is a significant issue because calling oneself a Christian while believing in abortion is fundamentally contradictory. Without recognizing that Jesus gave His Church the authority to guide us, we miss the vital connection between submitting to the Church and submitting to Jesus' authority, which leads us to the Truth. Modernism, liberalism, and transgenderism have invaded Christianity, allowing personal interpretations to override divine guidance. However, the Catholic Church steadfastly upholds God's Truth as its guiding principle. There may be individuals who label themselves as liberal Catholics, but in truth, such a category does not exist. To be Catholic is to submit to Christ the King fully. Consider judging the merits of Catholicism by its official teachings and its most faithful adherents, rather than by its worst representatives as we are all sinners and if the Church were perfect, I could not join her :) All Christians should strive to do this when evaluating any claim from someone with whom they disagree - assume their best intentions rather than the worst.

These three guys are gonna make great Catholic converts...

@ByzantiumArchon

27 күн бұрын

I pray for that, as well.

I think there are a lot of reasons. One big issue is modern worship is made with women in mind (30ish moms). I also see a lot of my friends leaving churches that have went full MAGA. They don’t want to hear politics but the gospel.

@jsharp3165

Ай бұрын

Amen. Conservative Christianity has become overtaken by worldly political concerns. When I see Christians equating Trump's trial to Jesus' trial and then proclaiming they still trust and follow both, that scares the daylights out of me.

@gregb6469

Ай бұрын

So what about all the churches in all denominations that have gone Leftist Woke? There are far more of them than 'MAGA' churches. Whole denominations have gone Left, and the real Christians among them have had to leave.

The intro song needs to be a whole album.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

Growing up with the 90s sitcom intros, it's pretty funny and entertaining.

My favorite top 3 Protestant KZreadrs getting together even though I'm a papist 😂🙏🇻🇦✝️,I'll ask our blessed virgin mother Mary to intercede for us🙏 Godspeed ✝️🙏

Protestants are going to have to face the fact that we have left the battles of society up to others... "CHRIST IS KING!" needs a response from us, many people today are looking for fellow soldiers to fight the evil in society.

If I had to guess, I’d say it’s for the same reasons Christians in then1st Century we’re embracing Judaizers. They want it to APPEAR more serious, or more religious. I came out of Catholicism. I remember my parents saying they didn’t feel like the they had gone to a worship service in the church I attended as a young man. They desired the smells and bells

@johna6828

Ай бұрын

looks can be deceiving for even the devil masquerades as an angel of light

@thewaterguy17

Ай бұрын

Or maybe they actually want to be more serious but the husks that are pretending to be the historic Protestant churches are doing everything they can to go the other way?

@bradyhayes7911

Ай бұрын

Christians in the 1st century weren't embracing Judaism. Many of the Jewish converts were under the impression they'd need to hang out to Jewish traditions, because Christianity was a continuation of OT Judaism. This was ultimately settled at the Council of Jerusalem. But it's not as though the Roman converts were itching to get circumcized

@kdbrich

Ай бұрын

@@bradyhayes7911yes, you’re right. I made a typo. I meant to says Judaizers. I believe autocorrect got me. The Judaizers were preaching a false gospel ans some were being drawn in.

@EricAlHarb

Ай бұрын

smells and bells is the boomer response to what is going on. I am a cradle Orthodox and every week we have 5-10 new protestant enquirers. Something is very wrong in evangelical world.

3 brilliant contributers, I laughed cos I am subscribed to all 3. More of these please, Matt as open and encouraging as ever, Zoomer guys content and scope and ease of getting it brilliant and the host who gave space to let the guest speak, (rare theses days) Superior (hosting) theology .. cheers from 🇬🇧

@andrewhambling

Ай бұрын

Superior hosting indeed

Love the collab with Matt Whitman! I haven't watched as much of Reedmed Zoomer's content, but so far so good.

It seems half way through this video, the reality of this discussion kicked in…

Because its true. Thank God for leading me home to the Catholic church

I have come to the conviction of historic protestantism and reformed theology. I am a member at a non-denom church, however the lack of the “seriousness” of church is an issue i believe can be created as well that doesn’t suit well with young men who are in pursuit of biblical and historic Christianity.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

Historic Christianity isn't protestantism.

@amirsmith9269

Ай бұрын

why catholics and orthodox don’t like us man…. 😔

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

@@amirsmith9269 I like you guys just fine, I love non-Catholic Christian's. but there is some real dishonesty when protestants read the early Church writings about how they interpreted the bible. We can see baptism washes away sins and Christ is present in the blessed sacrament. There is no doubt about that being the original teaching. I want you to consider that Jesus already left someone in charge when he went back to God the Father. The Apostles, they laid hands on their own Bishops and transmitted the authority Jesus gave them to other faithful men. You cannot just start your own Churches up. You have to be properly ordained, and because Protestant Pastors are just ordained by those whom cannot transmit any authority due to lack of apostolic succession, they are not valid pastors and their Churches including yours are invalid. Who ordained your pastor? Some dude who obviously was self ordained also. Keep in mind what happened when Moses himself was opposed by Kora. Kora likewise took the same protestant mantra of "The Church is us the people not Moses" and God stomped him and his followers into the ground for opposing God appointed authority. Think about it seriously. Just think about it. Your pastor is not a pastor bro.

@BirchKST

Ай бұрын

@@dman7668the church fathers are neither Protestant or Roman Catholic. We just let them be themselves. It's the Roman Catholics who say they agree with them 100% when they clearly don't. Watch any of the debates by James White with Roman Catholic apologists and you see the RC guys just fall apart.

Greetings from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺 Excellent episode and discussion Pastor Keith with all three of my favourite podcasters all in one place. Keep up the great work. Blessings, Andrew

I love both Matt and Zoomer. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Matt's work is a major reason I'm a Christian at all. However, I've gotta say I was pretty disappointed by the takes they presented here as to why converts (such as yours truly) are drawn to the apostolic Churches. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the arguments being presented by the Catholic apologetics scene are, on the whole, more convincing than the arguments that are being advanced by their Protestant counterparts. Catholic apologists as a whole simply seem to understand Protestantism a whole lot better than the other way around. As a result when I started trying to weigh the various options, I would find systematic presentations of Protestant theology from the Catholic apologetics wing, and "Catholics worship Mary" or "Catholics aren't allowed to read the bible" on the other. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the *sole* Protestant apologist I can find that can hold his own against the best Catholic apologists is fan favorite Gavin Ortlund, with most of the rest of the scene being pretty readily dispatched when they're confronted by their opponents. That's not what was said here. What was instead given was a mile-high psychoanalysis of a group of people and reducing their conversion experience (which they probably took very seriously!) to, basically "smells and bells" and "the algorithm made them do it". Go back and watch the record on Suan Sonna's conversion journey. Did that seem like someone who was enthralled by "smells and bells"? Go and read Scott Hahn's book. Would you say that he was captive to "the algorithm"? What I was told, over and over, when I was evaluating churches, was that the churches of the Reformation are trying to go back to the "faith of the earliest church". Is this not the same as wanting the "smells and bells"? Is this not the heart and soul of the house church movement, which tries to pretend that their gathering resembles what the Apostles created? The answer, then, was clear: If these churches could not stand up to the example set by the earliest Church Fathers, then that is a church that is not living up to its promise. Every time I've heard from or talked to a convert, the Church Fathers are on the Mount Rushmore of reasons they converted, not because of the how pretty the buildings are. Of the positions that you're going to run into in the Fathers, you're going to see them all affirm at the very least: 1) A literalist reading of the Eucharist 2) Baptism for the forgiveness of sins Can you be a Protestant and believe these? Yep! But that's part of the problem: you get to pick and choose what you believe, and find a Church that conforms to that. And the more you read the Church Fathers, the more that (I believe) you'll find that these supposedly medieval accretions coming really early, like: 3) The sinlessness of Mary 4) Veneration of the Saints 5) The authority of the Deuterocanon 6) The monoepiscopacy etc. Zoomer seems to imply that the Council of Toulouse was related to the Reformation. This is false. The Council occurred in 1229, more than 200 years before Luther, and it was not the case that the French were reading these bibles and became Huguenots. They were reading the bible and becoming Cathars. I'm not sure if this was his intention to imply that there was a connection in that direction, but this assertion was at best highly misleading. If this wasn't what he was referring to, I'd be interested to know what he was pointing to precisely. The EO and Catholic Churches have never held each other in irrevocable damnation. Both celebrated shared sacraments for a long time after the schism. I've seen Zoomer repeat this a few times in other contexts, so I'm not sure if he's really looked as much into this, but I'm assuming he's getting this from Gavin Ortlund, to which I'd just say that I think Michael Lofton does a good job of addressing this. As to the decline in Protestant institutions, I'm well aware that Yale et al were founded by conservative Protestants. In fact, it's kind of hard to miss, given the Hebrew text on the Yale coat of arms. As was noted, however, Catholics and Orthodox have largely maintained control of their institutions over the past millennium. Moreover, I'd note that the places in Europe where the Church has survived intact are almost without exception the Catholic and Orthodox ones, and the countries that were most aligned with the Reformation have fallen from the faith a long time ago. If Protestants can't maintain their institutions for less than 500 years, and really universally so, maybe that is a sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with the Protestant approach to institutions in the first place. Anyway, next time if you want an actual presentation for why this is happening, maybe try *asking* someone who actually went through with this.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

Yes I think that thier attempt to understand this is missing a fundamental fact, the Orthodox and Catholic Churches do own traditional Christianity because it is the original Church. They own that traditional Church mantra because they are the original Church.😅

@Adam-ue2ig

Ай бұрын

For every 1 that joins atleast 6 leave Catholicism in America (Pew Research, 2015). The internet Catholic apologetics scene offer a kind of illusion that people are converting in droves when in fact the reality is much more bleak. Also Javier Perdomo has a channel now in which he interviews converts from Rome to Protestantism.

@Sonicmax8728

Ай бұрын

I agree completely man. I feel like a lot of the conversation boiled down to “ your right Protestants are going in the wrong way, but so are the Catholics and the orthodox!” To which I would say just couldn’t be farther from the truth. While main line Protestants either turn more and more theologically liberal or go the way of the mega church( which is unsustainable in its own right), the Catholic and Orthodox Church have been doing very well towing the line in holding down traditions while working with the modern world to bring the gospel to more people. I just feel like a lot of times Protestants such as these fellas ( who are wonderful KZreadrs btw) can’t really seem to come up with a good solution so it just turns into “Protestantism going bad, actually Catholic and orthodox going more bad!”

@thewaterguy17

Ай бұрын

I find it odd how personally protestants seem to take historical anathema's from the councils. Anathema, at least from what I've read, does not mean "damned to hell", it means total separation from the one, holy and apostolic church and contrary to what some might say, those two things are not the same thing. Being in separation from the church is very bad obviously but the church does not decide who "goes" to hell and who "goes" to heaven (to use Protestant language), that is between the individual and God himself.

@Sonicmax8728

Ай бұрын

@@thewaterguy17 I agree with this. They get really fired up about it even when we have pushed back and provided the actual Trent definition of anathema used

I thoroughly enjoy your channel! My kids all can't wait for your next video! I am a Baptist pastor and my older kids can totally understand and get a kick out of the different characters that you present! Comedy gold for Christians!

Charles Spurgeon has left the building! If only there were some preachers like that today! One honestly never knows what is going to be preached from the pulpits in many Baptist churches. I know because I traveled that road. That includes the most conservative churches because even they are so into the culture and the distorted modern worship music. In most true conservative liturgical churches, and I’m not limiting it to the Catholic Church, as I am a LCMS confessional Lutheran, you know exactly what you will be fed Sunday. You know you will 1) get the gospel of Lord Jesus Christ, 2) the holy sacraments 3)preaching directly from the Bible, 4) biblical worship songs and 5) opportunity for confession and absolution every Sunday. Liturgical is the most dependable form of Christianity today.

@njspencer79

Ай бұрын

I sat in a LCMS church on Sunday in a small city in E Texas. It was not like that all. That was a shock. I expected liturgical high church. It was like Evangelical SBC/AoG with a pastor in a robe. That is not a compliment. Going on about empty seats etc. 2-50 songs like 7-11 but worse. I am still trying to figure out what exactly the talk had to do with the text cited. I looked around there weren't that many empty seats and the demos were more robust than most small-med churches. In general you are right. I have sat in various churches most I am shocked when they stick to the Bible. Most often its read a few verses followed by disjointed rambling and none near the text read. The exceptions have been ACNA, OPC and PCA churches. They tend to be on point. I haven't sat foot in many LCMS other than that one. I am not inclined to judge a whole group by that experience it was a surprise though.

@unit2394

Ай бұрын

Amen! That’s why I love being LCMS. Sadly, as the first commenter in the replies has said, some LCMS churches have been infected by contemporary worship and thinking as well. I pray that will change. I will say that I have seen a lot more of what you described in the LCMS church you visited in PCA churches I have looked at and been to though, and at least as much if not more in ACNA churches. But I still believe that even with those bad contemporary encroachments that the LCMS, ACNA, PCA, and OPC are all better than most other denominations today (particularly the LCMS of course because that’s my chosen church home).

@njspencer79

Ай бұрын

@@unit2394 The ACNA follows the normative principle. I expect modern instrumentation. They have tended stick w/ more in depth on lyrics. The doxology w/ acoustic guitar, violin and drums was different. But decent. Other than the literal 2/50 song Pastor pointed that out. I didn't count. My bigger criticism is sermons that say we are covering X texts and they don't. Completely just whatever is on the pastor's mind most cases nothing involving the text. I call it the baptist ramble. I am in TX. Swing a cat and hit 2 baptist churches. I personally prefer a church organ sure. ACNA's use of modern instrumentation has generally been respectful. It is more the lack of seriousness with other groups is my takeaway. I see a lot of either car lot in a recession behavior or an entertainment show. The OPC, PCA and ACNA all did very well keeping to the text and keeping things appropriate for lack of a better term. Again single sample (lcms) the combination of things surprised me. I was on a mini vacation which is why I was there.

@leviwilliams9601

Ай бұрын

Same here in the CREC 👍

@thanosman3491

Ай бұрын

Excellent Baptist preachers going against the culture today are Voddie Bachaum, Paul Washer, Joel Webbon just to name a few.

Excellent conversation, gentlemen!

Great insights in this episode - another excellent one - thanks! 👍

“Don’t say hit that sounds violent” still cracks me up on the intro!

Something I've noticed is that Roman Catholics are now more involved in the mainstream Christian media scene. When I was still a Roman Catholic, all the mainstream Christian media was Protestant, such as VeggieTales, God's Not Dead, K-LOVE radio, Focus on the Family, most Christian rock bands, etc. Any Roman Catholic content was hidden away on EWTN, and it wasn't advertised like Protestant content was. You had to be a Roman Catholic to know about it, because it was made by Roman Catholics for people who were already Roman Catholic. Nowadays you get things like the Cabrini movie and the Hallow app advertised on KZread and major TV networks. Unlike in the past, they REALLY want this stuff to be seen by non-Roman-Catholics, as perhaps an evangelistic tool. I don't know if anyone has converted because of these things, but it's obvious that Roman Catholics have woken up to how powerful Christian media can be, and now want the same portion of that pie as the Evangelicals.

Working at a Bible museum has given me plenty of opportunity to speak with Christians of different maturity levels and denominations. I've seen two major threads as of late: 1. The want to experience God. 2. The want for Christianity to be a mystery religion. The first point touches on beauty of worship, the institutions, and traditions. Protestants and Restorationists have become so winsome in an attempt to appeal broadly they have ejected hard theology. It has allowed "string of pearls" type beliefs to take over versus context and actual study. Rome and Orthodoxy has catechism, creeds, and confessions they truly cling to with fervor. The individual believer has a framework to rest on and some need the pomp of high church to feel they have encountered the divine. The second point ties in with the first. A blend of Dieism and Gnostic thinking. The drive to know something others don't. I've fielded more questions about Enoch and pre-trib eschatology than anything else. I'd much rather have a conversation about why we picked the epistles of Paul to include in canon over yet another idea of Daniel's 70 weeks. Orthodoxy especially has this mystical feel that allows believers to sink into the ritual of it. The guardrails set in place to experience God also protect from this craving of the unknown. The Reformation has a rich history of creeds like Westminster, Heidelberg, and the 39 Articles. Turning back to them wholeheartedly is the way forward. Focus the believers' minds on exploring the richness and depth of the Lord. Use Superior Theology to live Superior Lives. RZ's final admonition to "touch grass" is very true. We must live coram Deo and show the holiness of God to the world. Transform the mainlines from social clubs to the Church Militant. Turn the zeal of these young men to serving the will of God and help make His kingdom visible to all. A church withers on the vine if most men leave when they hit college age.

Am I crazy, or at no point did they even consider the idea that Catholicism/orthodoxy might be true and that is the reason people are joining those churches? Maybe i missed it. One thing I did like about the conversation was the element of Algorithmic drive behind movements within their comments sections. Very interesting to think how we are being subtly manipulated by these forces.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

They cannot do that. Imagine Keith going to his Church and saying the Catholic Church is the true Church. That would not work out well for his career as a pastor. Even if the Catholic Church is the one true Church Keith has gone so far down the protestant rabbit hole he has no choice but to prop it up even if he learns it is a false movement and a false Church.

@KnightFel

Ай бұрын

@@dman7668 It's not even that, it's just that the Roman Catholic church is truly NOT true. There is no saving gospel there, and church history is not friendly to Roman dogma, which is why Henry Cardinal Newman had to invent the development hypothesis. Young men are not moving to Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy because they are true, it's not some great awakening happening. If it were, there would not be a split between Rome and the east. The reason this is happening is the failure of American churches to preach the actual gospel. Rome doesn't preach a saving gospel, but they do have pretty buildings and smells and bells, and that's what's so attractive. If you know the gospel and have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, you could never swim the Tiber or Bosphorous.

@FalconOfStorms

Ай бұрын

You in fact may be crazy because they did discuss that and, as RZ pointed out, if that was a primary reason then it would have been true 20, 50, and 300 years ago. If truth is the key factor then why are the churches in Europe empty. The hosts in this video understand the parables of the wheat and the tares and the sheep and the goats. Whitman nailed it when he pointed out that all churches were founded by Jesus Christ.

I love Redeemed Zoomer’s background.

Thank you, guys, for walking through this topic very insightful.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

I do not know that it was insightful. All I mostly heard is Zoomer: "Protestants have traditional churches too" Matt: "The youtube algorithm is pushing Catholicism video's" This really does not explain why people are actively moving towards Orthodox Christianity or Catholic Christianity. I am glad you enjoyed the video but it was 50minutes of dodging more weighty subjects like "Is the Church really just a collection of like minded believers" because Matt tried to say that all Protestant Christians can trace their existence to the Apostles in Acts 2. This was such a dumb thing to say because clearly they cannot do that obviously. Their Church's do in fact have starting dates, and they all kind of laughed nervously when they were confronted with Catholics/Orthodoxy pointing that out. Well, they can laugh at that idea, but people bouncing away from protestant ideas are not laughing. They feel duped, because once you see the early Church history you learn that most protestants make sure NOT to talk about it, because it does not favor their movement. Which is exactly why I would not talk about that either. Frankly I think it is shocking for example that the baptist Church can even survive getting a single member once you whip open Church history and find they are teaching baptism does not wash away sins is contradicting pretty much over a thousand years of Christianity teaching that it does! This brings me to my point is that the ugly truth is Protestantism was able to successfully dupe people for a long time but now that youtube videos exist providing more accurate information people do a double take (my wife is a perfect example of this) and now they do their own research and see that protestantism lies.

@willw1753

Ай бұрын

​@@dman7668 It was the same for my wife and me; it wasn't an algorithm or smells and bells. (what a lame argument) It was the fact that we were flat-out told lies by pastors that came out one day because I was curious and looked into things they had said. I wanted to see for myself whether it was true or not. "Is that really the truth? Do the Catholics really do that?" And that's when the avalanche of lies came forward, and there was no going back.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

@@willw1753 My wife would have been happy to continue being a protestant, but then she started learning things about Church history and learned about some obscure thing called "The Eucharist" and was completely shocked that this was a baseline belief held by Christians. This in turn raised more questions like "We don't we believe this to" And before you know it the woman is going to RCIA and totally disgusted by much stuff the reformation straight up dumped (throwing babies out with bath water) when it left the Catholic Church. Now I am living with the most die hard whacko Catholic you ever met been it's been a fun ride and I myself have now seen the early Church writings for myself and have come to the conclusion that protestants while amazing well meaning people, are deluding themselves over what their own religion originally was teaching them.

Trying to break this down into a mere social phenomenon is a big mistake. True, it may be certain societal needs, psychological issues, or whatever that gets you in the door, but what keeps you there is a true encounter with God that transforms. If you dont experience that in Orthodoxy, which might be because you have the wrong outlook on Church, then you tend to leave, either to another church or to none. Orthodoxy also just draws you in to a deeper and deeper relationship with God and his Church. Unless you ignore it, it never just leaves you on the sidelines.

How do those who hold to Apostolic Succession approach the followers of Apollos who baptized separate from the 12 Apostles and had followers (his own denomination) explained in 1 Corinthians 3:4?

Here's my 2 cents worth: in 2004 I was in college and Pope John Paul II passed. It really affected me. He was the only Pope I knew and I truly respected him. As a Protestant coming from a mixed Catholic/Protestant family I was drawn into studying Catholicism. Some things I knew and some things I didn't. I almost became Catholic but couldn't get past certain major hurdles like Purgatory mainly. I still love the Roman church but still a Protestant and that's okay. My studies while this was happening have helped me in my fire chaplaincy tremendously since I've come across all kinds of faith positions and perspectives. The irony of this is that I'm a member of the Church of God (Cleveland) which our favorite Calvinist (😊) just did a video about. Yeah...I feel like I'm the odd guy with this huge menagerie of Church denominational family mix to come from who's a member of the COG. 😆 Anyway phenomenal video. 👍

Very insightful analysis of algorithms.

@willw1753

Ай бұрын

People are being shown those things because they are searching for the truth, and different things will pop up when you start searching. The algorithm sees you searching for answers and provides many different versions from Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant points of view, but people are finding the Protestant views to be unmoving and untrustworthy.

The catholic church (Rome and otherwise) is a teaching office. Many, many catholic "teachers" are bad. But the teachings are true. So to answer the question, the reason young men become catholic is because of the church's teachings about family.

“Touch Grass”- I love it!

@DaughterOfChrist1997

Ай бұрын

😂😂

Hi Keith, I don’t always agree with you, but I still think you do good work the interdenominational meetings are my favorite videos on your channel. I am a Roman Catholic I converted at 25 (I’m now 30. )I would’ve loved to talk to you about my experiences.

The internet helped in this “movement” but on the ground I honestly think the biggest draw is Holy communion. I questioned communion in the Protestant world 3 years ago, and that specifically is what started me down the rabbit hole. It wasn’t some random thing I saw on the internet, it had nothing to do with that. It was a genuine concern about communion. I knew in my gut something was wrong about how my church did communion, but I didn’t know why. It was always a nice “add on” flippant thing. Come to realize, many others had that same exact experience. My own pastor had been studying the Eucharist at the same time I did, and as I was letting them know I was leaving to become Orthodox, they just happened to switch to weekly communion. They believe in the “real presence” all of a sudden. The next question is why is Christ not present in the waters of baptism? When I realized what the early Church believed about communion, and that not a single reformed Church within 100 miles of me believed the truth about it. That was a huge problem. The reformed Church was at least consistent within their doctrine, but not with the mysteries (sacraments). So then you move to considering Anglicanism and Lutheranism, and both of those are in shambles. So they are quickly dismissed. They don’t really believe the truth about communion either though. So it’s down to the RC and the Orthodox Church from there.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

Interesting. Ths is almost exactly what my wife said to me. She even attended Keith's Church for awhile. She stated she always felt like something was missing. Once she started learning about Church history she explained how shocked she was she was not aware of the fact Christians believed in the presence of Christ in the sacraments. As I said in my comment which I will echo here, the reason why people are going back to Orthodoxy and Catholicism is simply because information is now more easily available thanks to KZread and the internet. People can now very quickly learn more about original Christian ideas. She was mortified to learn she didn't know these fundamental truths about Christianity. Everything from baptism washes away sins to Jesus being present in the sacramental bread and wine. It was like for her finding out her father (protestantism) murdered her mother and was happy with this new status qou. This comment made me wonder if she posted this for a minute due to how similar it is to what she says lol.😅😅

@LadderOfDescent

Ай бұрын

@@dman7668 You would honestly think this was something to do “because it’s cool”, and because it’s a trend. I don’t believe that is the case at all. The questions about the Eucharist is what prompted this for me a few years ago. Completely unrelated to anything I read, heard, or heard anyone else question. As I was studying a couple of years ago, I searched the question “are a lot of people converting to Orthodoxy” online. I could find nothing supporting that at the time. No one in my church was talking about it. So I know I came to this on my own. There was no outside influence on me. Then, not even 3-6 months ago the roots of orthodoxy channel flooded KZread with content. A good time after I’d already converted. So I think this was happening on the ground, so to speak, over the last 4-5 years. I just think people are finding out that others ALSO completely unrelated to them came to these conclusions on their own and it helps them not feel alone. It’s going to APPEAR as if the internet caused this, but I think if people are honest, they are going to see a different picture.

@LadderOfDescent

Ай бұрын

@@dman7668 Which direction did your wife go if you don’t mind me asking?

The Church of the living God is the pillar and foundation of truth. (1 Timothy 3:15) Young men want truth and the Catholic church is where it is at. There is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. Others are just offshoots, and do not have the fullness of truth.

Our church is victim to this trend. Pray for my elders with me.

Did Hans Fiene write and sing the theme song?

@jacobbyarlay3420

Ай бұрын

Yes. Yes he did

I really want people to do a poll rather than just assume. Nothing wrong with trying to use disparate bits of evidence to answer this question, but it still would be nice to have some firm data.

As someone who is born in 96 right at the edge of the millennial and gen z divide, I appreciate church history while also embrace contemporary style of worship. I grew up in a traditional black pentecostal home, so I been on both sides of the coin. A lot of the traditions i grew up with were legalistic and superfical. When I started to branch out and learn theology and church history I began to embrace reformed theology. I attended a traditional Southern Baptist before going to a reformed baptist church. A lot of southern baptists have a disdain toward calvinism despite being theologically closely related to calvinism. After going thru a study of the 5 points last year with a church leader I began to embrace calvinism while also not idolizing it.

I was once attracted to it because they seemed so much more serious, and the ceremony was beautiful as well. But the more I learned about catholicism the more I realized how wrong they were.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

No worries friend, that's how I felt about protestantism 😅😅😅 but we still appreciate your love and dedication to Christ!

@unit2394

Ай бұрын

Same. That’s how I felt about Rome, and the East to some extent. At one point it seemed inevitable that I would convert to Roman Catholicism. Instead, I stumbled onto Lutheranism. Learning about historic Protestantism and how it was a reactionary movement to go back to the Scriptures and the church fathers, away from what are clearly later modern innovations of the church made me realize that it was the most faithful expression of Christ’s Church.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

@unit2394 I am sure Luther at this point would be far more mortified over what has happened to the reformation than his disagreements over Catholicism today. We certainly appreciate the Lutherans holding to traditions we both share such as infant baptism or even the idea that baptism washes us of our sins. What use to be baseline accepted even among Protestants is now up for grabs.

Here's 11 honest reasons why I started to look into the Roman Catholic Church as a Non-denominational Christian and am still wresting through.... 1. Grieved by commercialism/"branding" of 'action-verb' Churches. 2. Grieved by 'Big Personality/Showmanship' Culture and the pride it fosters. 3. Grieved by doctrinal disunity on almost everything (soteriology, eschatology, communion, baptism, spiritual gifts, on and on and on. 4. Grieved by a culture of triumphalism. 5. Frustrated by the neglect of the meaning of objectively beautiful art and music vs KLove. 6. Grieved by the business model of church. 7. Grieved by cheap communion (a tic tac wafer and a plastic thimble of Welch's grape juice). 7. Having thoughts like, "Is this it...?" 8. The frustration/bewilderment of such low 'success' in my narrow evangelical Christianity that assumed Catholics/Orthodox are wholesale unsaved but yet comprise of the majority of believers presently and obviously historically. 9. Evangelistic/Charismatic "Holy Spirit Russian Roulette" in public and realizing that the Sacraments are Holy Spirit bound in a consistent/predictable way by faith. 10. Realizing that many protestant doctrines.beliefs are new (dispensationalism/cessationism/calvinism, symbolic communion, rapture, etc) and not found in the Church for 1500 years. 11. Catholics/Orthodox aren't Calvinist and have never been. . . . Then I've realized so many things I love happen to be of Catholic origin/influence/inspiration....we as protestants are eating the fruit but neglecting the tree its from. 1. Frank Capra's "Its A Wonderful Life" 2. The Passion of the Christ 3. Jonathan Roumie of 'The Chosen' 4. J.R.R. Tolkien and 'The Lord of the Rings' 5. Rich Mullins desiring to receive the Eucharist and his Franciscan Vow of Poverty shortly before his untimely death 6. Christ's-Mass on December 25th 7. Christmas Carols 8. Culture of Chivalry 9. Christendom 10. Enya 11. G.K. Chesterton . . . Then you have to deal MAJOR 'wrenches' in the protestant system.... 1. Tammy Peterson (Jordan Peterson's wife) gets miraculously healed through praying the Rosary and wearing the Scapular. Do we just write it off? Just 'demonic healing'? 2. Fatima. Just didn't happen? It was demonic? 3. Marian Apparition "Our Lady of Guadalupe" during the Prot Reformation/Western Schism. Again, just demonic? I could go on...but there you go.

@Coteincdr

Ай бұрын

It's time to come home brother!

@DaughterOfChrist1997

Ай бұрын

Interesting & fair points, but I cannot trust the catholic institution.

@BoondockBrony

Ай бұрын

1. Papists can be saved and God can work through them despite of their error 2. Fatima is a weird thing since it happened yes. But a lot of things were added once Lucia took the vows and that's when it gets sketchy 3. Ironically I think the fact Guadalupe happened when it happened is a sign it was cooked up by Jesuits/Rome itself once they realized they lost the central Europe. Just because it isn't demonic doesn't make it true.

@jeremystrand7095

Ай бұрын

@@BoondockBrony 1. I agree 2. But just agreeing with Fatima really breaks down so much of the protestant system does it not? 3. If it was all cooked up, that will be a tough case to make in court. Not saying it is or isn't, just recognizing the weightiness of it and even in missionaries like Fr Juan Diego in Central/Southwest US who was working 100+ years before the Puritans showed up and 200+ years before the American War of Independence. Just things I feel like we don't even know or consider. Peace!

Came here from Matt’s channel. Thanks so much for facilitating this. You and Matt did a nice job of gaming through this. A couple of times the other guy lost me. I feel like he wasn’t being as charitable. Also I’d like to hear from some people who made this move. I think the algorithm and TikTok is part of it but I also suspect it’s the perceived weaknesses of the seeker friendly mega church. I don’t know that I’d call it a Ted talk dressed up with music but that’s a trope I’ve heard. I do think there are people who want something that feels more rooted in historic Christianity. They’ve been burned by toxic culture war issues and politics and have seen that in their small group and wonder if there’s something with a different aesthetic that also has an intellectual appeal. I hope to see more collaborations like this!

As a protestant. It's because there are plenty of manufactured leadership opportunities to mature in there faith and plenty of different roles and positions are available for them in those religions/ denominations.

Good video guys! Its good to see people talking about this topic. I would like to point out that when I left Protestantism for Catholicism, it was much more than simply "wanting tradition." The main thing for me was following Jesus. If I can offer some respectful push back, I do feel the video missed some of main aspects of conversion to Catholicism and EO. I agree with what was said in the video about not just jumping from denomination to denomination as well as the role the internet has played in manipulating people. However, that is not the case for many converts including myself. I became convinced of Catholic teaching by reading the the reformers, the church fathers, scripture as well as scholarly work on this subject. The fact is that I could not find the main tenants of Protestantism in the early church. Even in the earliest writings of the Apostolic fathers, you see things like the priesthood, the three fold episcopacy of Bishop, priest and deacon. Not only that but the importance of these bishops in a succession. Then you get to the belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This was undoubtedly the view of the early church, and it was not just in a general "spiritual " sense. Church fathers use different words to describe the change that happens in the elements of communion by speaking the words of institution. At the end of the day, I tried so hard NOT to become Catholic. But I just couldn't square the fact that Protestantism was entirely absent of the very earliest days of Christianity. I love my brothers and sisters that are Protestant, and sometimes they are in fact more faithful Christians then I am. At the end of the day though, I need the grace found in the sacraments to strengthen and nourish me in my walk with Christ. I have been Catholic for over 4 years now and have not looked back. The last thing I would point out is that it is a very lengthy process to actually become Catholic or Orthodox. There were a couple times in the video where it sounded like some of the people that you have interviewed are claiming to be Catholic or Orthodox but haven't even been to Mass or Liturgy. One does not become part of the church until you have completed a process of a catechumen and have received the sacraments of initiation (baptism, confirmation, and first communion). Until that has happened, you are not Catholic. Even if you assent to the teachings of the church, you are not in full communion yet. Once again, good video and great conversation! God Bless you guys.

I'm sixty-three, thanks R-Zoomer for the man-splaining :)

This was very interesting. The two reasons I have seen more converts to Roman or Latin Rite Catholicism are the early church fathers and a strong desire for tradition. There are two other interesting trends within Catholicism. Among the college age and young adults there has been a movement towards going back to the Trinidine Mass in Latin, so ultra traditional. The other interesting movement is among young families in particular to move to one of the Eastern Catholic rites for the richness of the Divine Liturgy, that remains mostly the same as it was in the early Church.

It's easy . We studied Church history and the Bible .

My answer is that my generation thinks in reactions and is not willing to be critical of their new behavior and attractions after they reacted.

I’m a reformed Baptist and have been finding myself more in the Doug Wilson camp. My views of Baptism haven’t changed, but taking the sacraments more seriously, using songs that contain deeper theology, and the emphasis they place on the covenant community and being bold with the Gospel without constantly flirting with ever progressive social agenda that arises is a bit compelling. It is also why I loved following Apologia, but I’m not finding many Baptist churches like that.

As a 30 year old man who attends an evangelical church, I suspect the prevalence of contemporary Christian music instead of hymns during service is a contributing factor. Just doesn't feel right at church. The Catholic and Orthodox churches have a superficial "holy feeling" to them many protestant churches are lacking.

@icxcnika7722

Ай бұрын

Your comment reveals a pervasive, ingrained antipathy endemic within many hostile Protestant traditions toward the ancient apostolic traditions. By denigrating the mode in which they have historically expressed devotions as "superficial," you demonstrate that you have a fundamental misunderstanding predicated upon ignorance of their justification for their praxis. Are you so hubristic and cynical as to assert that these Churches are not inherently serious and meticulously intentional with regard to how they structure their liturgy and the sincerity within the laity that you have to ignorantly cast doubt on their devotional and modes of expression by calling them "superficial"? As an Orthodox Christian for half of my life, your statement overlooks the substantial and rational motivations that may lead an individual to transition from Protestantism to a more established tradition. Often, what I am seeing in Protestant circles is the necessity to explain the net loss/gain in Protestant to Orthodox conversions, and the only reason that is offered up is a weak polemic that is (that can be substituted as a proxy for coping with the loss of those coming into the RCC/EOC), “aesthetics,” aka the “smells and bells,” or the desire to be joined to an older tradition. As if such a thing has never occurred as a motivating factor or a reason why some people convert to magisterial reformed Protestantism, need we remember the increase among young men to Calvinism in the late 2010s, i.e., "The Young, Restless, and Reformed movement." Regrettably, I have yet to observe a genuine Protestant response addressing potential shortcomings within their own theological framework. Such a response would necessitate the virtue of self-introspective humility and explore reasons that might lead individuals to seriously consider the theological propositions of Orthodoxy. Alternatively, the reasons presented appear to be mere distractions, fervently attempting to undermine the validity of conversions. These attempts divert attention from the deficiencies within one's theological camp by either disparaging the other or, at best, unfortunately misleading those who have made informed decisions to embrace Orthodoxy for legitimate reasons.

@PhilipBelmont

Ай бұрын

@@icxcnika7722 I could never be part of a tradition with such an obsession with saints. Didn't Jesus tell us to pray to the Father, yet you are all praying to the saints instead. Our God is a jealous God and the reverence of the saints in your tradition borders on idolatry at best. It is a merger of Christ's religion and Roman paganism with the saints acting as stand ins for the old pantheon.

@icxcnika7722

Ай бұрын

@PhilipBelmont // I could never be part of a tradition with such an obsession with saints. Didn't Jesus tell us to pray to the Father, yet you are all praying to the saints instead. // There is so much confusion, I don’t even know where to begin to untangle your thoughts. Analyzing all your queries would be a huge undertaking. Your comment reveals the theological and philosophical bankruptcy prevalent within the contemporary Protestant ethos. Your first error was asserting the "exclusivity" of prayer in Christ’s words, where He didactically demonstrates a practical example of proper prayer directed to the person of the Father. If we are to take your main contention against Orthodoxy/Catholicism to be the intercession of the saints, then maintaining such a rigid interpretation of "prayer" is going to be counterproductive to your position. Okay, so Jesus has his disciples pray to the Father. Does that therefore mean we can't pray to Jesus, or what about the Holy Spirit? As a matter of fact, there are no prayers directed verbatim toward the Holy Spirit in the entire New Testament. Does that therefore mean we can't or are not permitted to direct prayers toward Him? If you say we can pray to the Spirit, then you have essentially contradicted yourself by expanding the exclusivity of prayer within Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke 11:2-4. So which is it? Can we ONLY pray to the father alone or can we pray to Christ and the Holy Spirit as well? //Our God is a jealous God and the reverence of the saints in your tradition borders on idolatry at best.// The fact that God is a jealous God doesn't mean or imply that God gets jealous when His saints are honored. They're honored in virtue of Him, not in spite of Him. The implicit theology here is one that can be called “univocity of glory” since it hinges on the assumption that God and creation must negotiate for the same glory; whatever is granted to the one will be less available for the other. Calvin had reflected this univocal concept of glory when he objected to the cult of saints on the grounds that it divided up God’s power, allowing saints to “claim some part of it for themselves.” God and creation thus came to be related like two sides in a zero-sum economic transaction. In Calvin’s systematic theology, the same zero-sum impulse manifested itself in the notion that God’s majesty is correlative to man’s misery, leading Calvin to argue in Book III of The Institutes that God had to orchestrate the damnation of large numbers of humankind so that “the glory of his name is duly revealed.” (sec. 3.23.8.) In Calvin’s liturgics, the same dialectic manifested itself in the notion that material elements must be removed in order to create space for God’s greatness. In this zero-sum theological game, God and creation compete for the same space, and it seems axiomatic that God must always win. This zero-sum impulse has a clear ideological correlation with Nominalism. Behind the nominalist discomfort with universals was the perception that God and the world exist in an inverse relationship, so that whatever fixity or inherent order is acknowledged to exist in the latter, must necessarily come directly out of God’s portion of glory. Nowhere is this FALSE dilemma more evident than in Calvin’s tendency to pit the material and the spiritual against each other. // It is a merger of Christ's religion and Roman paganism with the saints acting as stand ins for the old pantheon.// Correlation does not equal causation. Yes, none of this is true. This old canard comes from Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons, a pseudo-historical 19th-century Presbyterian and known anti-Catholic notorious for his embellishments of historical accounts. This is a false equivalence fallacy.

@jdkayak7868

Ай бұрын

The sad part is that most American Christians don't even know the real old Psalms and hymns that were sung for millennia but instead just the American folk hymns in the last 150 years in the "revivalist" churches.

@PhilipBelmont

Ай бұрын

@@icxcnika7722 So basically, praying to the saints is no different than praying to Jesus or the Holy Spirit. And somehow you're not exalting the saints to the level of gods? You are Eastern Orthodox, correct? What do you make of Revelation 17:5?

I look at the pictures on the wall behind the host and my position against the Reformation as a whole is affirmed

Would you consider having Pastor Jordan B Cooper on your show/channel? Are you familiar with Pastor Bryan Wolfmueller's work, and if so, same question with regard to him?

Is that LutheranSatire singing the intro?!!?!?

Maybe interview Matt Fradd or Fr. Gregory Pine from Pints with Aquinas

@26:04 YES! Thank you for that answer, Matt! That is the truth. I can’t stand when people say Protestants are following a 500 y/o church. No, it’s the early church, Acts 2. The Church.

This is an American thing. Globally, more ppl are becoming Pentecostal.

I respect redeemed zoomer but the main reason why i am about to become Catholic is because when all your life you have been told, “ThEY WorSHiP MaRY” “ThEY WoRK foR TheRE SaLVAtiOn” “ThEY PraY To DeAD PeOpLe aND WorShIP SainTS” I know not all Protestants think this but I was a long time user of CARM and Got Questions, I’ve read THOUSANDS of Carm Articles and in some way am still indebted to that website but Matt’s arguments against Catholicism is just Trash, but back on topic, the reason why i personally am on my way to being Catholic is the awful arguments Protestants and reformers have put forward that are horrible and in some cases Just stupid, along with the lies that was feed to me in my Baptist Church about Catholicism. In other words Protestants can’t lie anymore with a rebuttal about what the Catholic Church Officially Teaches.

@LoleexRU

Ай бұрын

My understanding is that Catholics do pray to Mary and pray to dead people to intercept on their behalf to a reachable God. Also, they don't believe in salvation through Grace alone. They also have extrareligious text that they hold canon. ..is that not correct?

Hi Keith, At the beginning of this interview, you said you haven't spoken to Catholics on this, but that you were hoping to someday. I think this panel would have benefited from people in the situation you're talking about: Protestant > Catholic or Orthodox. If you are serious about a good faith discussion with some KZread Catholics who made the move in that direction, below are some considerations: - The Catechumen (Brayden, Gen Z Baptist to Catholic) - The Nazerene Catholic (Ben: Nazarene to Catholic) - Kyle Whittington (Baptist or Pentecostal I believe; to Catholic) - Intellectual Catholicism (Suan Sonna: Baptist to Catholic) - Quest for Faith with Bryan (Church of Christ > Catholic) - And myself (Reformed Evangelical > Anglican > Catholic) As for Orthodoxy, I don't know of as many, but I do believe Barrel Aged Faith (Kyle) was Protestant > Catholic > Orthodox. Blessings, Drew

@justsomeguy9192-hx7jv

Ай бұрын

And I don’t see any converts from Presbyterian on your list since they have SUPERIOR THEOLOGY

26:18 Acts 1:8 "But you [THE APOSTLES, NOT MATT WHITMAN] shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth." Acts 1:20-26 20 "For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'Let his habitation become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it'; and 'His office let another take.' 21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us-one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection." 23 And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, "Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place." 26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles. This is apostolic succession, clearly So when you put that in context with the passages you are talking about in Acts 2, that doesn't dismiss apostolic succession apostolic succession still exists, it's the Word of God In practice, what does that look like? KZread what an African Catholic Mass looks like. KZread what a Japanese Catholic Mass looks like. Every end of the Earth, Churches with leaders that have succession that goes all the way back to the Apostles. Just as instructed in the Bible.

@Jerome616

Ай бұрын

Boom.

@SM12397

Ай бұрын

I'm sorry, but this is terrible argumentation. Because the services look the same does not mean it's the truth.

@nottiredofwinning3736

Ай бұрын

​@@SM12397 Looks like you missed my argument. I'm not relying on the fact that the services look the same to make any point. I'm also not arguing that the Catholic Church is the true Church, even though it is, that's not the conclusion I'm making here. I'm arguing that the apostolic succession practiced by the Catholic Church is Biblical - it's found in scripture. The significant part of my statement is that Catholic Bishops in Africa, Japan, and every end of the Earth can trace their authority all the way back to the original apostles. Not that they merely look the same. Are you sure you judged the quality of my argument fairly? It seems you didn't understand it.

LCMS has young people. Our age groups are just more evenly disbursed i think.

@BoondockBrony

Ай бұрын

It does but it really depends if your church is connected to a school. Mine is not so it really is just the grandparents or sometimes parents of older kids/zoomers there. I am convinced that is what makes the LCMS still an older sect to many. I am not a zoomer and I'm more or less probably the youngest regular there.

Haven't watched this yet, but in my experience with non-denom churches, nothing is really required of you. You can come and go, and the atmosphere is "sit back and enjoy the show". Seems shallow. The performative (vs. participatory) music also is confusing, as some don't even know if they are to sing with the band or not (soloists tend to overtake the stage). The program/marketing/demographic driven model is also a deterrent. These types of places come off more like social clubs with a Christian veneer.

@Jerome616

Ай бұрын

Divorced? No big deal! Contraception? come on in! Gay marriage? Cool, just don't say it too loud (yet) Need i go on? Indeed, "just show up, sing a song, listen to a bible study, and believe in Jesus and you are good to go" seems to be the non denominational way.

A couple obvious reasons: 1. They want a religion, not a nitpicking theology club, and 2. You can pretty much hold to the magical 5 Points of Calvinism and still technically be within Catholic orthodoxy

@njspencer79

Ай бұрын

Pretty much Anglicanism then. Looks like the RC in many outward ways. The 39 principles are Reformed aka Calvinist. Sermons are very Presbyterian. According to social scientist Ryan Burge (The Great Dechurching) the 3 denoms that are growing are the ACNA, PCA and AofG.

@WayneDrake-uk1gg

Ай бұрын

@@njspencer79 I saw an old Jordan Cooper video where he was basically criticizing the RC theologians for defining their internal doctrines so broadly that they can "accommodate anything you could throw at it". Personally, I think that's a great ecumenical mov (at least to the extent that Rome actually does do that), but it seems to cause others do double down, stick to their guns, and maintain their distinctives. Also, speaking of Anglicanism, if there's one Communion to which the substance of Cooper's criticism legitimately applies, it's gotta be them. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful tradition, and I could listen to Rowan Williams for hours on end (and not just to sleep), but you kinda need a firm ground on which to stand if you wanna move the world

@njspencer79

Ай бұрын

@@WayneDrake-uk1gg Quite possible. The AofG growth rate is declining fast of the 3. PCA is stable. ACNA is conservative fork that rejects the liberalism of the CoE and Episcopal church it is growing pretty well despite its small size. I believe it started around 2005. My central point is even within Protestantism there is a rise in high church traditionalism amongst the younger gens. They I think are following that great Texas Philosopher Hank Hill "You aren't making Christianity better you are making rock n roll worse. " LOL

15:00 really really insightful on algorithmic prowling

@georgeluke6382

Ай бұрын

Philip Schaff “on the Principle of Protestantism” helped me in thinking about Acts 1 and 2, balanced with Protestantism as a medieval reform movement. Asking when our church started is hard because of what the question might mean or not mean. Are we talking about exegetical inception? Historical development of the Western church? Strip malls v cathedrals? Liturgies? Something else?

@georgeluke6382

Ай бұрын

40:13 May God grant the failure of the secular Western order and the overturning to a better Christendom!

@georgeluke6382

Ай бұрын

46:30 really interesting debate on the ACNA

@georgeluke6382

Ай бұрын

48:13 the 3 qualifications

@georgeluke6382

Ай бұрын

49:11 on the CREC

Too many people do not understand hermeneutics very well. Also too many lack discernment when reading church history.

CREC has conservative, traditional ,and young people.

@redeemedzoomer6053

Ай бұрын

But buildings tho

@ryanmckenzie3627

Ай бұрын

@@redeemedzoomer6053 Many of our congregations are indeed poor, my congregation recently got turned down for a loan to purchase a building, but some of our larger congregations have buildings, like Church of the Redeemer in Louisiana.

@redeemedzoomer6053

Ай бұрын

@@ryanmckenzie3627 I don’t like the CREC cuz it’s a double-retreatist denomination. Split from the PCA which split from PCUSA. That’s why they’re poor. Can’t stick to one denomination for more than a generation

Good video. Woah some of the recent comments are mad.. yikes.

I think one of the reasons that the "converts" are relatively evenly split is simply due to the fundamental disagreements between the Roman Catholics and the East Orthodox churches on theology. If you come from a Presbyterian, TULIP type background firmly rooted in the Western Tradition your more likely to be drawn towards Rome whereas if your more of an "Evangelical" or Methodist type, you'd probably have less misgivings with the theology of the East.

@BoondockBrony

Ай бұрын

Yeah methodist/evangelical also have weaker theology for the most part so EO is easier to plug and play with them so to speak.

It has nothing to do woth esthetic in my case, although it's a plus. But it was just reading the Church fathers that convinced me of the Catholic Church.

@BoondockBrony

Ай бұрын

That's funny patristics made me convinced anything but Romanism was true.

@Coteincdr

Ай бұрын

"universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority" -St Irenaeus of Lyon Maybe you missed this part in your studies.

@SM12397

Ай бұрын

​@@CoteincdrYeah, we're gonna need a citation for that quote. Also, that doesn't mean he was talking about the Roman Catholic church if accurate, just the church in Rome.

@Coteincdr

Ай бұрын

@@SM12397 Sure, "Against Heresies" Book 3 Chapter 3. He is talking about the Bishop of Rome aka The Pope. And also, what would it mean to agree with the Church in Rome? Obviously it has to be with the Bishop, you can't agree with a building, the context is about the Bishopric, so you have to agree with the Bishop of Rome, who is the representative of the Church in Rome. But you can go and read the full Chapter if you want.

I enjoyed the conversation. I’ve been a fan of Matt for a while and Redeemed Zoomer has the potential to mature into someone I could respect. But, instead of these two gentlemen, why not ask some people who actually have left Protestantism for Rome or the East? Why ask people for conclusions they arrive at based on anecdotal evidence? Why not go directly to the source?

Yeah most evangelical churches are really weak on the gospel and watered down so Catholics are just seen as another denomination. It starts with contemporary christian music bluring the lines with artist like matt maher. Evangelicals like francis chan and the bible answer man. But i grew up evangelical and didnt know church history still i studied protestant history from j a wylie and found out protestants have been around since the first century at least. After looking into it no way id become catholic.

Because they have access to the early Christians and Church history on the Internet and KZread. It’s clear they weren’t protestant, maybe not Roman Catholic but definitely not protestant.

The word "anti" in antichrist does not mean someone who is going to be openly anti (against) Christ. That word "anti" in the original Bible language can actually mean "IN PLACE OF". So could the bible antichrist be someone who has actually put himself "in place of" Christ? Well, we have further Bible evidence to support this. In 1 John 2:18-19 it says that there were "many antichrists", who "WENT OUT FROM THE CHURCH". In other words, John is pointing to the fact that those "antichrists" were WITHIN THE CHURCH!! Not only that, but Paul in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 calls the man of sin the "son of perdition". Now there is only one other place in the Bible where the name "son of perdition" is used, and that is in John 17:12 talking about JUDAS! And what was Judas? A professing follower of Christ Jesus. Someone who deceived from WITHIN the "church". "The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who TAKES THE PLACE of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity." (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994). "ANTI" - Christ = "IN PLACE OF" Christ!

I would tell anyone who cares about what Christianity actually is, don’t ask what denomination will I be, but seek the TRUTH. The Truth WILL set you free. If the Truth is Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc, Catholic or Orthodox then so be it. Seek HIS truth.

@tonyfisher9961

Ай бұрын

So they are all true?

@PatrickSteil

Ай бұрын

@@tonyfisher9961 If they teach contradictory truths they cannot all be true. Either one is true or none is true.

@tonyfisher9961

Ай бұрын

@@PatrickSteil I don’t know if that makes any sense. I don’t understand what you are saying. I feel like your sentence is contradicting itself.

@PatrickSteil

Ай бұрын

@@tonyfisher9961Sorry, I had a couple typos. Corrected it above.

@tonyfisher9961

Ай бұрын

@@PatrickSteil I agree that the Catholics have the truth.

As someone who was a Calvinist for 10 years and has seen many Calvinist’s convert over to primarily Orthodoxy I think there is another concern. One is lack of teaching on church history. Many times denominations will teach church history to their benefit without going into all the details. When people find out how disconnected Protestantism is from the early church it raises high concerns. Not only that but the high influence from St. Augustine in much of the Protestant tradition is another concern. When you have your eyes opened to church history you are left in many cases with only a few denominations that look anything like the early church. I personally have not converted to Catholicism or Orthodoxy for various reasons but for those who do I understand their concerns. Protestantism has to start arguing basically how it isn’t like Mormonism in that it’s a new invention or idea. Otherwise the more access people have to church history they may end up leaving Protestantism behind.

Love the intro! Jesus is acting in ALL of the sacraments. In confession, Jesus forgives…through the priest (John 20:22-23). Having a single visible head of the church DOES create unity…sure there are squabbles inside the church, but the church teachings are established (the CCC). The fact that future teachings cannot contradict scripture or previous dogma means the church cannot go woke. Catholics restricted reading of the Bible because there were many uncontrolled mis-translations being published by Protestants.

Im sorry I am a cradle Orthodox so I may not be entirely familiar with this. But isnt protestantism all about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Why discuss institutions when the value is placed on a "personal" relationship with Christ?

It’s probably because of James White.

@Jerome616

Ай бұрын

😂

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

Seriously as funny as this comment is I think there is an genuine ring of truth to it.

BASED means sticking to a controversial opinion because you believe it's true

Orthodoxy is appealing for a variety of reasons but having been on the online Orthosphere for several years I’d say primarily it’s bc it’s exotic & seemingly has a reactionary bent to it, however this is not the case in the general population as the majority of Orthodox Americans are pro choice lgbt affirming democrats. Online it’s a whole different animal (a severely autistic one). Most orthobros - especially content creators - are relatively new converts & very zealous. I was initially very attracted to various fathers, saints & monastics who seemed to embody humility so dramatically but what I found in the Orthosphere was the opposite.

@icxcnika7722

Ай бұрын

As an Orthodox Christian for half of my life, I believe it is an erroneous assumption to categorize all converts as "orthobros" or "tradcat." Furthermore, your statement overlooks the substantial and rational motivations that may lead an individual to transition from Protestantism to a more established tradition. Often, what I am seeing in Protestant circles is the necessity to explain the net loss/gain in Protestant to Orthodox conversions, and the only reason that is offered up is a weak polemic that is (that can be substituted as a proxy for coping with the loss of those coming into the RCC/EOC), “aesthetics,” aka the “smells and bells,” or the desire to be joined to an older tradition. As if such a thing has never occurred as a motivating factor or a reason why some people convert to magisterial reformed Protestantism, need we remember the increase among young men to Calvinism in the late 2010s, i.e., "The Young, Restless, and Reformed movement." Regrettably, I have yet to observe a genuine Protestant response addressing potential shortcomings within their own theological framework. Such a response would necessitate the virtue of self-introspective humility and explore reasons that might lead individuals to seriously consider the theological propositions of Orthodoxy. Alternatively, the reasons presented appear to be mere distractions, fervently attempting to undermine the validity of conversions. These attempts divert attention from the deficiencies within one's theological camp by either disparaging the other or, at best, unfortunately misleading those who have made informed decisions to embrace Orthodoxy for legitimate reasons.

@tab207

Ай бұрын

@@icxcnika7722Matt & RZ both provide critiques of Protestantism in this video

@icxcnika7722

Ай бұрын

@tab207 I am aware that my comment was in direct response to your remark, which lacked the necessary justificatory conditions to invalidate the reasons why people choose to leave Protestantism for Orthodoxy and Catholicism. The fact that some Protestant leaders can self-analyze their deficiencies does not mean most are blessed with this ability of self-cognitive introspection.

@tab207

Ай бұрын

⁠@@icxcnika7722ok well I never said I was a Protestant or that Protestantism is correct. I offered an example based on experience, nothing more.

@icxcnika7722

Ай бұрын

@tab207 Please don't backtrack. Only Protestants and/or other secularists already hostile toward the apostolic churches offer this category of polemic.

Don't blame the algorithms! I found myself questioning my non-denominational faith and practice. What is the Church? How do we worship? Why is there a stage, a band, etc. instead of an altar? The internet was there to search. I searched Got Questions, CARM, etc. I deconstructed the hyper- Charismatic views I held. But I was not done. I had deeper questions about theology. I found Bishop Barron and Catholic Answers. I don't blame the algorithms. I searched and I found the best content, the most complete answers and the most knowledgable people- and they were Catholic or Orthodox. Sorry, but Matt Whitman's video with a Catholic priest helped lead me to Catholicism. I became Catholic in 2020. I now help teach RCIA, ( Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults). We have watched Matt's video in RCIA class to illustrate the beauty of Catholic worship in a cathedral. Matt even went into the confessional! The internet cannot take you where you do not want to go. If you seek, you will find. If you seek to understand and experience the sacraments, you will find the faith of the early Church. Only God can reveal that to a person, and draw them to Himself. Until you are converted, all you see is the dry husk of religion. When you experience a conversion to Catholicism, it is a work of grace. Conversion is a revelation- I was blind, but now I see. The Sacraments are key.

@Jay_the_giant

Ай бұрын

You joined an apostate church pretending to have legitimacy with all its bells and whistles. Where there is no gospel, there is no Christ. Trust in Christ alone for your salvation. No amount of works will ever save you in any way.

The attraction to Rome and Byzantium are pretty numerous: 1. The magisterial protestant denominations will *always* be associated to those who are lazy or just buy the false frames that are used by Rome and Byzantium are that of what zoomer males have developed against, progressivism, and imo a lost cause as finding a church in those denominations are slim picking. Laziness is also the issue since normal zoomers rarely dive into the conservative sects of Protestantism so good luck finding an LCMS church full of young people *not* connected to a school full of young people. Basically the local Papist church especially is simply ubiquitous. I am convinced this reason itself is why outside of mocking wokeness, very few papists in particular don't attack them. They in the normal eyes are already self-defeating 2. Three words: "I want more" Rome and Byzantium have more meat to them outside devotions that vary in effectiveness and usually come off to some as man-centered or shallow. Rome has so many pop piety things you can do even I yoinked the rosary from them. The theology these two teach are deeper than just a daily devotional and such. Burn out is real yo. 3. Tradition: In a world where modernism is there, they are seen as fascinatingly timeless this is hammered home by memes so I am not elaborating on them. 4. Peer pressure, really. I think the more zoomers converting, I think the more open to protestants are to crossing the Tiber just to fit in. Especially given online pressure of wanting to fit in. 5. Spite, I don't think this is every convert but I have met many a convert who clearly converted because they just hated their old churches. For good or bad reason, it's something I know that has happened. 6. Ethnic heritage "I am part X so I was interested" is what many zoomers have said. It's a motive I never cared for since I am multiethnic and while I am German. That had no impact on me becoming Lutheran but it's something

I have not gotten tired of the intro. It is so ridiculous!

i am reformed because i oppose the papacy and them burning us at the stake however i am not puritan because according to experts puritanism led the wokeism

@jwilsonhandmadeknives2760

Ай бұрын

Calvin had a guy burned at the stake.

The Catholic Church really invested in social media over the past couple years and in terms of EO you can attribute the uptick to Mari Mari’s short from clips. People are making life changing choices based on 15 second clips, it’s wild

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

Well, I think its more then sound bytes. As protestantism collapsed as a movement people are now back tracking to Christianities roots.

@BoondockBrony

Ай бұрын

Mar Mari isn't even Eastern Orthodox, which is the funny thing to me.

@StillSawyerPhotography

Ай бұрын

@@BoondockBrony he most definitely is. He kisses icons, worships Mary and dresses like a Pharisee lol

@StillSawyerPhotography

Ай бұрын

@@dman7668 sadly Catholicism is not the root of Christianity. Thats regurgitated nonsense that comes out of the mouth of proud Catholics

I will also say this. There is something very fundamentally wrong with Evangelical Christianity it seems to me. We get between 5 and 10 new Orthodox Enquirers (both male and female and university age) every week. If my Church is an indication this represents a very large number of young evangelicals. Im not sure its only an online phenomenon. Also I suspect a lot of the young women are showing up because lots of young men are showing up. It seems to me that somehow evangelicalism has lost the plot, but i dont know where. what I am saying is - this isnt just a question of aesthetics and tradition. Something more fundamental is going on with these people. Something that is sorely lacking in the traditions they were born into. It seems to me that the boomer response is smells and bells (james whitish) But i cant see how it accounts for what we are seeing going on now.

I think something that the Protestant's are missing is the fact that, especially for young men, the Roman Catholic and East Orthodox Church makes demands of its followers to actually change their lifestyle somewhat. It's not enough to just say "I'm Roman Catholic or East Orthodox" and be in good standing with the church. You have to actually put into practice, at least to some extent, the teachings and requirements of the tradition, something that most Protestant traditions (at least in the modern form) don't require or even really talk about.

WHAT IF these young people are discovering TRUTH in the Catholic and Orthodox Church? Truth about Christian teachings that have been handed down from Jesus until now by The Church he started. Maybe they cannot live with the solas which are false and have done nothing but divide the church and thus the Truth of Jesus...

Young men looking for serious theology turns to reformed theology then realize reformed theology isn't biblical then turn to Catholicism or Eastern Orthodox

@Jay_the_giant

Ай бұрын

Young men who love Christ, understand the gospel, and are looking for serious theology become Reformed and stay there.

@scriptwriter1268

Ай бұрын

Or neither of those 2 options

I have to push back on Matt on one thing: Yes, mainline churches have married themselves to liberal politics and people are rejecting that and running toward tradition. But conservative evangelical churches have also been just as egregious in marrying themselves to MAGA politics and anti-wokeism. People are rejecting THAT too. Both tribes believe that getting political power is the solution to our problems. I am theologically conservative and a Bible teacher but I am sick and tired of conservatives' obsession with politics. They spend hours and hours a day consuming politicized media and podcasts. They are driven by fear and anger and can't talk about anything but Biden and drag queens. That is not what the church is supposed to be about. The appeal of a liturgical church is that it FORCES everyone to focus on bible-based prayers and significant scripture-readings (not cherry-picked verses) in a regular systematic pattern that cycles through ALL topics over the course of a few years, not the topics preferred by the preacher or the congregation. It is not driven by modern politics but has been fruitfully used by Christians for centuries.

@threecards333

Ай бұрын

I can relate to your comment. I part of a Reformed Presbyterian church for 7 years (2015-2022) but it got too MAGA, so when I moved I really went the opposite direction and started attending a UMC church. That said the UMC church I attend is in small town Mississippi so it is quite conservative all in all. I personally find myself in the awkward position of being theologically and personally conservative while being politically leftwing (at least left of Biden). The politicalization of church has really hurt the gospel message, especially the backing of morally degenerate politicians for cynical "cultural war" reasons.

If the biblical Gospel isn’t the primary reason why you join a particular denomination/tradition, you’re just a whitewashed tomb. Yes, tradition matters, but the Gospel is essential.

@bradyhayes7911

Ай бұрын

The Gospel, in Scripture, is simply the good news that Jesus died and was resurrected for the forgiveness of our sins. Do the Catholics and Orthodox not teach this?

@Jay_the_giant

Ай бұрын

@@bradyhayes7911 yes, and then they add works to it.

@bradyhayes7911

Ай бұрын

@@Jay_the_giant What do you mean by that? Which works do the ancient Churches add to the Gospel?

@Jay_the_giant

Ай бұрын

@@bradyhayes7911 ask a Roman Catholic how we cooperate with God’s grace, or why they don’t agree with Sola scriptura.

@bradyhayes7911

Ай бұрын

@@Jay_the_giant What does denying Sola Scriptura have to do with adding works to the gospel? Where are the words "Faith alone" in Scripture?

The Roman Catholic institution was a like 1,000 years old. The first millennium of Christianity is what Eastern Orthodoxy and a Roman Catholicism grew out of and for that matter Protestants as well.

Ton of copium that no one wants to join their denomination lmao

Because young men like Redeemed Zoomer are convincing thousands that Rome is “just another denomination” and there is salvation within it. His false beliefs about Rome is leading many astray. Romanists need the gospel. Let’s truly love our Papist friends by telling them the truth.

@billmartin3561

Ай бұрын

Haha, you clearly don’t understand what the Catholic Church teaches. It is all focused on Jesus.

@SM12397

Ай бұрын

​@@billmartin3561So, the three non-biblical Marian dogmas (per Roman Catholicism) I have to believe to go to heaven tie into that how?

@sarahd5341

Ай бұрын

@@billmartin3561you misspelled Mary. Also, there is no peace in Rome. Christ’s work is not finished, it just gave you a nice head start! Now it’s all about your works to keep yourself in the faith. 👉🏻 get to mass 👉🏻 confess your sins to a “priest” 👉🏻 pray the rosary 👉🏻 ask dead saints for “mediation” Romanism is a snakes and ladders religion. It keeps people in bondage. You naval gaze because Christ doesn’t give you assurance, your works do.

Why I am a Catholic Convert: Church history. It makes way more sense to be Catholic when you look at history as a whole. Also the early church believed the same things as the Catholic Church

@geraldhill7547

Ай бұрын

Looking at history? The Catholic inquisitions murdered Christians for not worshiping on Sunday because they still observed the sabbath like Jesus. Catholics murdered more Christians than Jews. Well documented.

Generally if you go to an Orthodox or Catholic church you are not required to believe the earth was created in 144 hours or some complicated dispensational pre-trib, pre-mil system for interpreting all scripture. It's been the same simple message with some feel good sacraments and a lot of activities led by some dudes dressed like wizards for a long time. And they got a pretty building, always open, so you can go anytime and speak to someone.

The pull seems sinister to me. Get into religious traditions and become ineffective, safe and respectable to the world. If you belong to a church that teaches vege tales doctrines however,then I can see someone longing for more.

Because they dont know their bibles.

Having a beautiful building is not important compared to having Biblical theology.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

The reality is that Orthodoxy/Catholicism is the most traditional version of Christianity. They own that mantra because they can own it lol.

@nicovanmu8659

Ай бұрын

You are right, the best theology lies in the Apostolic teachings of the Church Fathers.

Ex Catholic here. Catholicism has a false gospel, it's dead in sin ministering to other dead people. I was born again on 11 June 2016, praise the LORD! My God is the God of the living. Jesus saves.

@billmartin3561

Ай бұрын

I’m a convert to Catholicism. Sorry to hear of your very negative experience and opinion. I pray you find your way back to the church that Jesus established, the Catholic Church.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

What is this false gospel? Does it teach Jesus isn't the Son of God?

Who is claiming one unified thing? Roman Catholicism recognizes other legit churches with true sacraments / apostolic succession. Protestants are unable to meet this Catholic definition of a Church - Protestantism only has mere ecclesial communities on the outskirts. It’s not a church with true sacraments. the apostolic churches are. That’s the difference. Non-Catholic apostolic churches were born out of “schism”. Protestantism was born out of “heresy”.

@dman7668

Ай бұрын

Yeah I mean that's the reality of it. The apostles only can be traced to the Catholic Church and Orthodox Churches.