Today we take a look at low volume approaches and training consistently to failure. Why does it seem like a lot of lifters online are getting superior results with this methodology? Joining me today to discuss is Dr. Pak Androulakis-Korakakis who has researched what the minimum effective dose for training is. Give him a follow as he posts some fantastic fitness content on his Instagram: instagram.com/dr__pak

@Reppintimefitness

10 ай бұрын

Natty 4Life

anyone who is stronger than me is not natty. Sorry, gamers. That's just how it works.

@OmarIsuf

10 ай бұрын

And anyone weaker than me is clearly just not working hard enough.

@Peatore

10 ай бұрын

@@OmarIsuf I'm trying so hard, bro

@mattymattffs

10 ай бұрын

But you can't even get a 45 off the ground :(

@rickyp3329

10 ай бұрын

😢 gamer grills on twitch nowadays can out lift me do I just give up and donate them my life? ❤

@Son_0f_Jor-el

10 ай бұрын

If someone has to tell the world in their bio that they’re natty, they’re most likely not natty

People eliminating junk volume will always be a good thing. A lot of people by training to failure realized they were never even _close_ to failure before. The magic is less in actual failure in more in the fact that many people just finally started to train hard. People who were training one way for a while switched up the methodology and surprise surprise, new gains. It’s almost like when you run into adaptive resistance, any fresh, effective stimulus will yield new gains. Same goes for the people who only do low freq to failure and run into a plateau. There are all kinds of adaptations that lead to getting jacked and strong and best results come from dipping into all of them at different points in your training career. I’ve made gains on everything from max effort long workouts 2x a week up to “easier” 5-6x a week. As long as I didn’t do any one thing for way too long

I have recently moved towards this style of training compared to my previous PPL 6 days/week and Upper Lower 4 days/week. And the biggest thing for me is overcoming this mental block when it comes to lifting because I'm only in 3-4 days a week, and responding to how my body recovers instead of feeling this need to be in the gym despite my body not being ready. My weekly gym duration is lower which helps my lifestyle and there are elements of progressive overload in weight that I skipped over in favor of volume for volume's sake. At the end of the day, it's about what you enjoy and what will keep you consistent for years to come. We're only in a race against ourselves

@TheTurtlesrockz

10 ай бұрын

loved the video and your personal take and experience is similar to mine, been working out 3 times a week, and the mental/physical recovery is very refreshing! doesn't feel like a chore to workout, actually get excited to get the opportunity to work. Decide to take the long term approach eat clean and over time muscle will come! I'm no body builder, just want to touch my toes and grow old with no high cholesterol once I hit 49 y.o.

@himeshsinghshishodiya

10 ай бұрын

True. Not everyone and everyone's lifestyle is the same. I personally train 6x a week with an Arnold split, takes me 1.25 - 2 hrs each session.

@henri3672

10 ай бұрын

Imo this is a bigger problem of the internet pushing progressive overload/training harder than last time and most people equate it to 5-6 times a week in the gym when recovery is also part of training

@BaneTrogdor

10 ай бұрын

Yo man my experience is totally the same, i'm finally making progressive overload after decreasing number of sets.

@jakepotts102

10 ай бұрын

Or switch between times of lesser frequency and increased frequency. Using upper lower or full body seems best for this.

Great video. Here's my experience, FWIW, as an old guy: I first trained HIT style in around 1977 or so at Roger Schwab's Main Line Fitness in Bryn Mawr, PA. Schwab wrote articles about HIT and actually trained Mentzer for a contest, and his studio was strictly HIT: circuits of Nautilus equipment that emphasized pre-exhaustion, with sessions supervised by trainers who pushed club members to take each exercise to failure and beyond, for a single set of 8-12, with two second positives, four second negatives. A lot of the equipment allowed you to do the pre-exhaust isolation exercise and compound follow-up with changing machines, so the emphasis was on moving from pre-exhaust to main exercise as fast as possible, with little rest between bodyparts. It was classic HIT (Nautilus) style at that time. I trained there for most of a semester (and got gym credit for doing so). Toward the end of the time that I trained there, they got a squat rack, but other than that it was strictly Nautilus. The equipment was great; the studio was immaculate; the trainers were awesome; and people worked really, really hard. (I saw several guys faint in the locker room after workouts.) My experience was that I gained for about 8 weeks and hit a plateau. That was not a unique experience. I have tried HIT training any number of times since, and the experience was always the same: great initial gains, then sudden plateaus. I have come to believe that HIT works best AFTER someone has been training high volume--maybe slightly overtraining on volume. The sudden sharp reduction in volume and increase in set intensity causes a growth spurt, and then a lot of people burn out within six weeks or so. The people who thrive on it are often folks with large joints and long muscle bellies (like Mentzer, Viator, and maybe Yates) or people on gear (like Mentzer (who also relied on amphetamines), Viator, and Yates). I'll add one thing to this overlong comment: I once exchanged emails with Casey Viator. He was Arthur Jones' principal guinea pig and he was the subject of the Colorado experiment. He also was a really impressive bodybuilder. (If you don't know who Viator or Arthur Jones were, or what the Colorado experiment was, look that stuff up. Mr. Google will happily supply with what you need to know.) Anyway, in the emails, I asked Viator about Mentzer's consolidation program. Viator was friends with Mentzer. Viator told me that he had inherited some of Mentzer's clients after Mentzer died, and Viator said a number of the ones who had been doing the consolidation programs didn't even looked like they trained. He had to raise their volume. Viator still swore by HIT (even though he also used a volume approach before contests), but he was dead set against training ideologies and cults. He told me that all that matters is what works for you. Sorry to go on so long.

@passthebutter3

5 ай бұрын

No need to apologize for the length haha. I want to know more! Your comment was very insightful and fun to read.

@Segagens

4 ай бұрын

Mentzer says to ADD REST DAYS to prevent plateus. Did you do that?

@adamsloane1748

4 ай бұрын

@@Segagens Good point. Arthur Jones and Dr. Darden recommended that people make one day of their training week moderate intensity and then, if necessary, scale back to two full body exercise days per week. Mentzer took some of these concepts to further extremes (hence Viator's comments). I found that adding rest days was only temporarily effective, but maybe I should have given that strategy a longer try. Ultimately, I think the lifter's temperament and physical makeup are key factors in the success or failure of any particular training approach. Mentzer believed that, fundamentally, everyone is the same and one size fits all. I have my doubts.

glad to see you're still putting out quality content. a true youtube fitness OG

Thanks for touching on the topic, Omar. Can’t wait for the video!

Great duo, love seeing Dr Pak more frequently

I moved from a PPL to this style and I’m getting much stronger with less gym frequency. It’s amazing !!

Great take on the topic!

Mike Mentzer's definition of going to failure was not the same as the modern definition of "stopping when you can't do another rep". He was doing drop sets, rest pause, forced reps, forced negatives, partials, etc. AFTER the initial set.

@RustyShackleford86

10 ай бұрын

I've heard Mentzer say failure is when you can no longer do another rep in good form.

@himeshsinghshishodiya

10 ай бұрын

​@@RustyShackleford86 Yet he'd do all the shit the OP said and immobilize his muscles.

@RustyShackleford86

10 ай бұрын

@@himeshsinghshishodiya yea he would take his own techniques to extremes but for the average joe it was just until a rep couldn't be done in good form.

@FridgemaxxedHybridoreanLifta

10 ай бұрын

He also did meth and tonnes of anabolics lol

@MarioMedinaaa

10 ай бұрын

@@RustyShackleford86 Mike Mentzer said "a muscle has three levels of strength: positive, static (holding), and negative (lowering). All three must be trained in order to stimulate maximum muscle growth" and "considering, then, that a muscle has 3 levels of strength, it is obvious that you must exhaust all three levels before a state of total muscular failure can be reached" from High Intensity Training The MIKE MENTZER Way With John Little, chapter 5

It's always a good day when Umar posts a new video

I'm gona trust Mike Mentzer any day of the week. Most people don't train to failure and cant accept that more is not always better

Dr. Pak 🔥 . Enjoyed the iron culture podcast with him a ton

Seems like HIT has managed to rotate its way back in as the current fitness trend. Never base your training solely around the latest fitness trend and train the way that gives you the best results, enjoyment and most important of all is sustainable in the long term so you can still be lifting in your old age.

It's all personality. People who chronically half ass their workouts do well with this approach because it forces them to actually train hard. People who train super hard might get more out of frequency training because it forces them to ease up to be able to recover. People should just to both

What many people forgrt when speaking about Mentzers approach is that quite often he did (and advocates for it in one of his books) so called pre exhaust sets, where he does a set on an isolation exercise to failure followed immediately (like seconds) by a to failure set of a compound exercise that mainly hits the same muscles. For example leg extensions followed by leg presses. Additionally he proposed to basically always do tempo reps, where one slows down the eccentric a lot and holds the top position of the lift for a second or two, and finally after your last rep you had to hold the top position also for as long as possible and do the last eccentric as slow as possible. This already increases the amount of work and volume done in "one set" enormously, compared to what most people understand as "one set".

@virtuerse

10 ай бұрын

Something about Mentzer always struck me. I admired his physique but never joined the HIIT cult despite doing some of my own HIIT training (more traditional kind). His advocacy for tempo reps isn’t something I knew about but intensity manipulation via pre exhaust sets and tempo reps sounds incredibly difficult. This is surely an intermediate to advanced practice, novice lifters don’t need much stimulus to grow. All this to say if you’re a beginner, keep it simple people. You’ll know when you need more effort and Mentzer’s methods are a good tool to use along with other lifting strategies. EDIT: spelling mistake

@experienceaccelerated7039

10 ай бұрын

HIIT and HIT are different things. @@virtuerse

@virtuerse

10 ай бұрын

@@experienceaccelerated7039 yes, I thought I expressed learning that differentiation in my original statement but it looks like I did not. Thank you for the correction.

@lastninjaitachi

9 ай бұрын

Mike mentzer did steroids of course anything worked. He was a pro body builder during arnolds era. Dont know why he is even being brought up.

@experienceaccelerated7039

9 ай бұрын

Mike Mentzer personally trained hundreds of clients over his career as a trainer, most of them being natural. I think he witnessed what works and what doesn't plenty of times. @@lastninjaitachi

I like to believe that alot of people at the gym don't train hard enough. The idea that you go all out failure is a sure fire way to ensure muscle damage. When you tell people that 'getting more volume' is good, it leads them to think that its just about the number of reps and sets rather than the intensity. If you do 15 sets a week but were all 5 reps shy of failure but you only cared about volume, then obviously there is no overloading stimulus to enduce hypertrophy. When you finally tell people, go AMRAP minimum sets, people actually train hard because thats what the program states. I think its because alot of the time, training very close to failure is painful and hard, and not many people like to reach that point. But when you plateau you are willing to try something different, when you finally get out of the comfort zone of RPE 6/7 that's when the gains start to come in. Only then increasing volume at higher RPE is beneficial. This is may be why the paper concludes higher frequency is better, because it allows the fatigued muscle to recover, to be able to go hard again next session.

When I started training I tried to hit 10-12 sets per muscle group per week and got some gains, but now I'm trying to do the lowest amount of sets that still allow me to progressively overlord. Do the volume that allows you to progress, not some number that you were told.

@benhallo1553

10 ай бұрын

Good point

"I don't know. MAYBE BECAUSE THEY'RE WORKING HARDER THAN LAST TIME?!" -Greg Doucette "Full ROM with a slow eccentric and pause at the stretched position." -Dr. Mike Israetel "Lengthened partials with enough frequency." -Milo Wolf (soon to be Dr. Wolf) "Fake weights." -Jeff Cavaliere.

2000- Train to failure 2010-Studies tell us to leave reps in reserve 2023- I'm getting good results training to failure Conclusion: Stop overcomplicating fitness the only study that matters is the one you do on yourself. Try different things out and see what works for you instead of stressing over the newest study. Fitness was never meant to be complicated even a prisoner can get into great shape. The reason why its been so overly complicated by social media is if you where told it was simple no one could sell you anything.

@Riffs_and_lifts

10 ай бұрын

Exactly. When are people going to understand that training to failure with low volume AND training with higher volume just shy of failure both have their place? Everything works, some methods work better for certain people than others

@DOOR.DASH.TYRONE

10 ай бұрын

@@Riffs_and_lifts Agree 100% I learned that lesson during covid lock downs. I was forced to switch from high intensity to body weight training with high volume and frequency but limited amount of weight. My conclusion is it all works as long as you try hard enough. Obviously based on age, injury risk, schedule, how much energy you spend at work this will all change your preferred method of training but any reasonable approach can work as long as your giving it your best and progressing the workout in difficulty.

@SmudgedScreen

10 ай бұрын

Why are you scared of education?

@GluttonforPunishment

10 ай бұрын

Right. I think of new studies in the fitness industry as recommendations for things to try and see if I like them, not as information to base my personal programming on as if their results were law.

@Justinsox39

10 ай бұрын

⁠@@SmudgedScreenbecause everyone is different. You need to try different things to see what works for you. I’ve been lifting over 20 years and have tried everything. They all work so i just do what i enjoy and what keeps me from getting injured constantly

Your raskol gear looks very smart bro

I'm 52 and have trained volume for 30 years. Started doing HIT 3 months ago. I'm spending 75% less time in the gym and I have to say I'm really enjoying it.

I tend to do a bit of both depending on if I'm in a massing or cutting stage. If I'm on a bulk and my recovery is on point I tend to do more volume with maybe 1 or 2 sets to failure per muscle and that results in longer sessions. When I'm on a cut or my sleep and recovery is not that good I tend to do shorter sessions and going to failure every set, that results in less systemic fatigue. Both are about the same effectiveness is my guess

I’ve come to realize leaving reps in the tank just increases the amount of sets you need

@OMAR-vk9pi

10 ай бұрын

Brain dead logic

@ianbrown5955

10 ай бұрын

I feel the same. Good logic.

@KurokamiNajimi

10 ай бұрын

@@OMAR-vk9pi Alpha Destiny (Alex Leonidas) believes the same thing now, if someone as elite as that is having the same experience you should start to entertain the idea. It’s no different than needing 30-40 sets to grow if your sets are 4+ RIR

@Xefaw

10 ай бұрын

More intensity less sets, less intensity=more sets has been proven time and time again

@himeshsinghshishodiya

10 ай бұрын

And also reduces the physical and mental fatigue. You need to find a balance between both - Fatigue management and Intensity.

Made it into another Omar Isuf video: 2:34. Sweet!

Jeff Alberts journey continues ep 5. Pro doing low volume. Only squatted 2x a month and hit 475. Trained 2-3x a week. 3-5 sets per muscle group. Other high intensity bbers Ben Howard, Mr.AmericaHeart. Stuff works. I’m doing the same and finally hit 190x4 ohp.

We create stress then we recover THEN we adapt then we can do more, I made very good beginner gains as a result of just hitting the weights hard, big compounds, putting weight on the bar, minimal sets. Then I got intrigued if maybe the grass was greener elsewhere, looked around at the "science based" stuff and got carried away with volume, Looking at "science based" guys in the online sphere one guy called Peter Attia not strictly a lifter but associated with Brad and others claimed to be doing something like 23 sets a week for legs!!! within my first year and a half to 2 years of lifting I was squatting near 200kg, natural, at around 85kg. The absolute most weekly sets I ever did for legs was about 8, including hamstring work. within my first 6 months of barbell training I had squatted 3 plates and pulled 190kg - with only 1 set of 5 a week. Basically mogged a lot of science guys who have been lifting for decades with an rusty barbell and a handful of sets a week, genetics, heavy weights, and mental strength to push yourself hard can do a lot for you.

Dorian Yates, in his own words has repeatedly said that he only follows his popular "Blood and Guts" style of training for 8-12 week stretches at the maximum, and worked with as well as recommends a usual volume centric training style for the rest of the time. For instance, look up Mike Thurston's videos where he trains with Dorian. Dorian says this clean and dry in one of those videos, and if I remember right, I think it was the video where they work legs. Even then, Yates' version of HIT has way more volume than what Mentzer was pushing later in his career. You're not supposed to permanently work in a true HIT style all the time. Newer lifters past their newbie phase who are still busy doing pump and feel type of training suddenly get a different and arguably better stimulus when they move to a HIT-centric training mode, because they are suddenly constantly pushing themselves and working in proximity to failure. Besides, volume is not simply reps x sets. It's weight x reps x sets. Overall work volume increases as you add poundage. Progression feeds growth, you can progress in multiple ways. Also, sure, go ahead and train leg once every 10 days as a natural, novice - intermediate lifter. You do not do enough damage to your legs in a session to need that kind of rest, you're not Platz or Mentzer.

The broscience in this comment section is off the charts.

I hit a PPL doing two exercises per body part in the three days doing 4-5 sets per exercise, this is a 6 day on one day off routine, the first three days i focus on more heavy compound movement weight low rep ranges and the second three days I focus on more isolation movements hit lighter weight higher rep ranges, and with a rice, veggies and chicken type diet with a pre workout, whey protein and creatine supplementation im experiencing some awesome gains

Wouldn't periodizing both approaches be optimal in the long term?

Arnold and Mike has comparable physiques but trained totally different. The analysis? Pharma grade dbol

@romerosneck

10 ай бұрын

@@everyisnaadisfabricated3784 I mean they did actually train very differently.

Something to consider in this discussion is that the body's signals are essentially built around disturbed chemical equilibriums. Any stimulus will have a half life in the body, therefore if you want to train infrequently, you must train hard enough that the stimulus will last through the needed recovery time. The same applies to a high training frequency. If training very often, the workout must be hard enough to produce stimulus, but not so hard one does not recover for the next session. It would seem there is a wide range of frequencies and their corresponding workout intensity that produces near optimal results, and it is up to the trainee to determine how they would like to proceed with their current training block. In this comment "intensity" refers to a combination of how close to failure and per session volume. It would be more accurate to describe the relationship as a triple point of per set intensity, per session volume, and session frequency.

@terrycrews1584

10 ай бұрын

Why does the stimulus have to last through the needed recovery time? If you are talking about "optimality" I think is less important in terms of actual recovery, as it always comes back to the fact that people end up overtraining themselves. More recovery > Less recovery for x% of extra gains. Its hard to find the precise amount of recovery you need through studies, because we are all different. With volume comes possible CNS failure if your workouts get too long.

@Mastobog

10 ай бұрын

@@terrycrews1584The stimulus doesn't need to last through the recovery time, but if you are getting the full growth stimulus of your workout and still have an extra rest day until you work the muscle again that's wasted training time. It's just about finding that balance, but there are many balance points, not just 1.

@terrycrews1584

10 ай бұрын

​@@MastobogThat only applies if you already know what your body is capable of and you know what you are doing, which is not discoverable purely from studies. We can observe human science but cant say anything is close to certain.

@benhallo1553

10 ай бұрын

Nice comment

@benhallo1553

10 ай бұрын

@@terrycrews1584good point. I wonder if when ppl say ‘see what works for them’, I wonder if they over estimate what they can ‘see’.

HIT (in a broader sense, i.e: the theory, not the implementation) is not the only way to get results, but it is the smartest and most efficient if you have what it takes (being very strict and unforgiving with your own technique, have the mental toughness to maintain composure under big weights and near failure) i love it

That example from Dr Pak isn't a low volume/high intensity example (5-10 sets per week/0, 2, or 3 in reserve). That is medium volume and medium intensity. There is currently a trend of doing the Mike Mentzer routine. That is a high intensity workout of hitting a muscle or muscle group for one completely intense set, then you recover the muscle "and" the body for 3, 4 days, or longer. Each muscle or muscle group is only worked out for one set once a week or longer. Out of the gym in 20 min. He taught that you don't need more than one all-out set. Anyways, I'm in the midst of trying it out for 3 or 4 months to see if it works as well as some claim it does.

Tbh, even if it isn't optimal; I really enjoy lifting using HIT, and as long as the weight I'm using and the reps I'm doing are going up, I'll be happy

Made strength gains for the first time in a few years basically (embarrassing I know lol) switching to Mike Menzters HIT training. 5-6 sets, to failure (complete failure, no nonsense). Definitely sticking to it. 3 times a week, about 1.5 hours max total training. I call that winning.

@waffen7408

10 ай бұрын

5-6 sets is really decent all failure. 1 Set isn't ideal for a lot of ppl. Full intense with forced reps, occasional dropset/superset, Sometimes even 7-8 sets.

@ianbrown5955

10 ай бұрын

I'm doing one all out pre-exhaustion, super-settted and pyramided set per muscle/muscle group. It takes two minutes to do the set to finish. It's actually two or three sets all in succession with none, or little rest (just enough to get into position on each exercise of the set) I do three body parts per workout for a total of 20 minutes. I need a few minutes to recuperate from each set. I do this every 3 or 4 days, so each muscle/group gets worked out every 9 to 12 days. I started this 3 weeks ago to see if there is anything to this type of training. I've rolled twice so far. I'm gonna try this for about 4 months.

@Hobohunter23

9 ай бұрын

@@waffen7408 I only do 1 set of each exercise. 5-6 exercises, one set each, to failure (per workout)

It's good to try low volume approach. That way you learn what true failure is.

I think one of the things with HIT training that is overlooked is the emphasis on "proper exercise performance" as Mentzer puts it. Or basically doing 4sec negative, 2 sec hold, 4 sec positive. Also, research often focuses on "optimum gains". But gains are still very good at the lower, more sustainable volumes. Also for protein, at 0.7-0.8g per lb of bodyweight vs the optimal 1g per lb, you still get most of the benefit, but your wallet and gut will thank you for the lower protein. For us average Joes, we want to be healthy, look good, and be in it for the long term.

@ianbrown5955

10 ай бұрын

My first 15 years of bodybuilding, I didn't take supplements. I made steady gains just fine by eating good food when I was hungry. I always went high intensity, but I look back and realize that I did too much volume; that may have stunted my growth as a young man.

i used to swear by something similar - sets of 5 or less, heavy singles, etc and the results spoke for themselves. always PRing, always getting bigger. however i was also always getting hurt and now both my shoulders are so buggered up wiping my own ass is difficult.

I do a mixture of high intensity and volume split in 2 sets. And for some reason after 4 months of training im almost about to Out muscle nattys that train for years. Might be my supplement stak but doing a mixture of both seems to be very effective fir me at least.

@otis6418

10 ай бұрын

What's your supplement stack? Creatine, protein, ashwaganda??

@themasterofanalyticsandwie1342

10 ай бұрын

@@otis6418 Well the list is long. I wouldn't recommend using it for every instance but my current one is -Lemon Mrytle tea (Muscle protein synthesis) -Shilajit (Testosterone boosting) -Ashwagandha (Testosterone boosting) -Tongkat Ali (Testosterone boosting) -Rhodiola Rodesa (Stress management) Yeah that alongside a good diet helped me building lots of muscle quickly naturally. But I would only do it when someone wants to become competitive Wich I want to do. I would be more minimalistic when it's just a hobby. But lemon Myrtle is really a secret gem in all of them

i believe some people respond better to this type of training while others do better on high volume

I'm old...I'm 51 and was influenced by Mentzer and Yates over 30 years and have been training this way almost that entire time, even through my time competing in my 20's. I still train this way and think it is the best way to train as a natural lifter.

@Dmoriarty1993

10 ай бұрын

You could live until you're 100. You're not that old.

@ianbrown5955

10 ай бұрын

@@Dmoriarty1993 62 over here. I train with intensity too.

@andrewfitzman

9 ай бұрын

May I ask what your training split looks like?

@76063co2

9 ай бұрын

@@andrewfitzman sure thing. There are two splits that I have effectively used over the last 3 decades. The one I recommend for most is splitting the body over two workouts. This is the same workout that Dorian Yates used in his early days. Day 1 -Chest/Back/Shoulders/Abs Day 2 - Rest Day 3 -Quads/Hams/Calves/Triceps/Biceps Day 4 - Rest Day 5 - Restart Day 1 or take another rest day as needed. All sets are between 8-15 reps. For larger muscle groups (Chest, Back, Shoulders and Quads) I perform two exercises, usually starting with a strict or isolation exercise, followed by a compound. For example, Quads always starts with Leg Extensions, followed by either Leg Press or Squats. You won't be able to use as much as typical for the compound movement, but it's about results, not being able to brag about your bench.....AND your joints will thank you later in life. All of the other smaller body parts get one exercise each. Every exercise first gets 1-2 warmup sets with increasing resistance. The final set of each exercise is considered the working set, and is always trained to failure. Once reaching failure, I will perform rest pause (10 sec rest and go back for 2-3 more reps to failure) or a drop set where I immediately reduce the weight and again go to failure. Use a slow controlled speed, with very little momentum. You should be able to perform that regime indefinitely and make good progress. The other split I have used is a Push/Pull/Legs split, with a day of rest in-between each of the three sessions. I would only recommend that for someone looking to become a competitive bodybuilder, because splitting the body over three days instead of two, allows you to add one more exercise per body part. This is also the split you find in Mentzer's original Heavy Duty book, and a very effective one. Hope that helps.

oh wow, you've been training for 3 years and you've...progressed!? what a surprise! Good luck with the injuries.

Oh, I'm not the only one who gets recommended videos with Mike Mentzer's training methods

@TheGreektrojan

10 ай бұрын

The KZread algorithm started pushing Mentzer's stuff about 6 months ago-ish for whatever reason and many people have run with it since. Its funny because they think its the hidden ancient secret of bodybuilding but his training style was well known even before the internet.

I have the feeling that studies looking at training to failure vs volume are looking at a very different type of muscle failure compared to what HIT advocates like Mike Mentzer did. In the studies, failure mostly was defined as when an exercise cannot be performed any longer. But if we take Mike Mentzer for example, he did not stop at failure. After that, he'd hold the weight, then do a slooow negative, and he always seems to superset an isolation exercise pec deck with bench press without a break in between. This will activate many more muscle fibers than just stopping a set when no more reps are possible and calling it a day. In addition, he did not do only one set. He did two sets per main target muscle, one per exercise. I recently started some sort of rest pause / myo sets, and my muscles are annihilated afterwards, sometimes even slightly hurting for hours. Compare that with training to failure to which my muscles just say "so, now what?". Its a completely different experience. I had some of my best gains back in the day not with bro splits or high volume training, but with drop sets, where I would note the reps for each of those sets and force myself to set new records next session, for every of those dropset sub sets. I also had the same experience that when training for maximum intensity, volume and frequency would have to be reduced massively, and actively managed. I'd train every muscle only every 6 days. Another possible effect from high intensity / low frequency / low volume could possibly be that the muscle is exposed to way less accumulated stimulus. For example, with high volume training you often end up training the same muscle 2 or 3 times a week, with a lot of sets, for long sessions, while with HIT you'd create a very high, but very short stimulus, and then nothing. For like ages, until the next training session a week later. So this could mean that HIT infuces less of a anabolic resistance than volume training. Therefore, HIT could provide a longer time where the muscle responds with more hypertrophy. It seems to me that the debate is far from over, because it seems to work, if the muscle is trained to more than just normal failure. Something studies do not seem to look at.

@ianbrown5955

10 ай бұрын

I agree. Studies are lacking in the failure that Mike taught. I have always used intensity, but too much volume. I'm trying HIT for 3 months to see how it works. After my 20 min workout, I am totally useless. I go to failure, rest-pause, then superset the same group with a lighter weight with no rest; I annihilate. I shake at the end of my workout. I'm giving myself 3 days between each workout, but 9 days between each muscle group. I know that I will have to give everything I have in one set per muscle group or muscle. There's just too much talk; I'm going to experiment on myself. I know one thing: My 20 workouts are much more draining on my body than my 1 hour workouts of regular "failure" work

@bobbobson4030

10 ай бұрын

There are already studies on this...they are called drop sets

@reinerheiner1148

10 ай бұрын

@@bobbobson4030 Its not neccessarily the same. With drop sets, you drop the weight. Which is not the same as rest pause sets, where the weight stays the same. There could be differences in what and how muscle fibers are recruited. But, even the drop set studies do not replicate what Mentzer did, its still on a way lower intensity level. I've used drop sets in the past, with actually greater success then high volume training. But its still way easier to my muscles than using multiple different intensity techniques while not dropping weight. Once you manage to annihilate your muscles like that you'll know what I mean. Another difference is that with dropsets, you basically have no breaks between sets, which means you accumulate a lot of lactic acid, which will reduce the number of muscle fibers you are able to recruit. With supersets like Mentzer advocated them, you also take no break, but, he'd have to go from machine to machine, instead of just reducing weight on a machine with drop sets, resulting in more time spent recovering and thus less lactic acid accumulating. Same with rest pause sets. So there are already at least 2 differences between HIT and just using drop sets. I've been an advocate for evidence based high volume training for a long time, but then I realized that they never compared real HIT with volume in studies. I still think that they are right, and that one set training is worse. But HIT is not one set to failure, nor is it a drop set to failure. Its just a completely different, much stronger stimulus. When I was training to failure, the classical way, my CNS would block me from using all of my muscle fibers still, and I'd just burn out doing this over multiple sets for multiple exercises per muscle group, yet I would not set the best possible stimulus. When using HIT the right way, you bypass the bodies CNS limits. You keep forcing the muscle to work beyond what the CNS wanted you to be able to. And thats the main idea in a nutshell: Create the maximal stimulus in the shortest amout of time, then rest and recover for a long time. Again, nothing like 1 set to failure, and way beyond simple drop sets.

A couple more considerations: 1. *Nobody can out-train a bad mullet.* 2. *There's no so thing as a good mullet.*

@arissp4950

10 ай бұрын

The evolution of the brocoli heads is now the brocoli mullet. Ffs

@nehemiahjuan950

10 ай бұрын

Strongly disagree. The power of a mullet can not be contained.

I got ripped through high volume training and bro split training (back/biceps monday, chest/triceps wednesday, etc.) Now I maintain my muscle mass and strength with less intensity and upper body (2x a week) / lower body (2x a week) splits. Both work. There are many ways to develop muscle and strength.

@IVEdge

10 ай бұрын

Sounds like PPL not bro split.

Most people who have started training to failure and are noticing results are the ones who never trained hard enough before and I can bet that still many of them in this group are not actually going to true muscular failure.

Im glad omar is still natural. I remember when he did a pr and said any more than this needs steroids and restricted himself

Do these techniques apply to jelquing? Asking for a friend

Because thats what training hard actually does for you. People took the whole 'dont train to failure' thing wayyyy too far... and ended up just training like pussies. Always leaving tons of reps in reserve, never training with heavy weight etc etc. Then they wonder why they hit a plateau - usually after newbie gains - and never get past it. You need to train fucking hard and then have plenty of rest and recover. 3-4 hard sessions a week with ample recovery is infinitely better than 6-7 half ass sessions a week.

@xantonify

10 ай бұрын

Yep, and it's better to have a slightly lower volume than recommended and train hard like to technical- / to failure. Than having loads of volume and not being able to recover. The attitude should be like, less is more and quality over quantity approach.

@themasterofanalyticsandwie1342

10 ай бұрын

I also don't understand why you shouldn't train. High volume to failure. I always do this and see awesome gains with enough protein intake. I also do some hit with it

@ADR_JaiDe_N

10 ай бұрын

​@@themasterofanalyticsandwie1342because you can train to failure with a fewer reps using a higher intensity? Lol less reps to failure= more intensity whereas more reps to failure=less intensity

@themasterofanalyticsandwie1342

10 ай бұрын

@@ADR_JaiDe_N in the end it depends of what you want. For example high intensity to failure does nothing to my legs while it does wonder to my biceps. My chest likes a mixture. Sometimes high intensity puts the tendons to failure before the muscle does Wich means less growth especially in the quads

@ADR_JaiDe_N

10 ай бұрын

@@themasterofanalyticsandwie1342 7-11 reps to failure is ideal in most cases . Less intense Warm up sets are also important and lower body legs need maybe 30-40% more reps regardless of high/low volume training compared to the upper body .

When talking about the low-volume approach, saying '2-0 RIR...maybe even 3', could raise some eyebrows. I'm guessing he had the more taxing, compound lifts in mind when he said this, as a 3 RIR on a number of isolation exercises wouldn't be a 'pretty hard set'.

Science aside it’s a fun way to train!

I’m not really liking the Mike Menzer’s single set to failure but for everything else he is absolutely one of the most knowledgeable bodybuilders ever

@moreroids_morehemorrhoids

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, multiple sets to failure just feels better, one set to failure (well close to it) for me is underworking. Perhaps I'm not actually close to failure who knows

@terrycrews1584

10 ай бұрын

@@moreroids_morehemorrhoids Usually there is also a mental cap in place, Mentzer and Yates had a training partner with them who helped them on the last reps. You can substitute that with your favourite intense exercise music and doing that 1 set as a rest-pause set, after failure -> wait 8-10 seconds, 1 rep and repeat 5 times and blast everything you can on the 5th rep of the rest-pause.

Take two weeks off from all training.(Allow for full repair) Do two sets to fail on each exercise. Two sessions a week. Do that for two months,maybe three. Write down rep/weight increases on exercise and changes on scales/tape measure. Do another two weeks off. Same but one set to failure. Two sessions a week. Record everything. Then two weeks off and then whatever volume and multi days a week you want. Record as well. Compare your data at the end. See how YOU respond.

I love the "don't listen to him, listen to me" attitude of nobodies

Anyone have a sample workout split for this?

if you're focusing on moving weight as fast as possible in good form, you don't need failure. If you're trying to be a bodybuilder than yeah, you need to use lighter weights...go to failure...move at a slower tempo etc, etc.

RP Strength is a big reason people are getting more jacked in general.

The problem with high intensity is that most people don't even hit failure. They think they hit it. Also both Mentzer and Yates talk about technical failure meaning that you can't do another rep with CORRECT form. Yanking the weights with cheating form just for the sake of one more rep isn't failure. Furthermore, everything works high volume and high intensity. Also don't forget that Arnold which is the ambassador of high volume was also doing high intensity as well. His last set would always be as heavy as he could for as many reps as he could and then beyond failure with his training partners. It's amazing what TikTok trends can do to people. Train both ways, mix them and find out what works best for you.

Why can't we agree that physiology is not a one size fits all - try different approaches - rotate approaches from time to time (which will automatically happen if you have a job, family, or other responsibilities - can't always put 1.5hr a day to train) And be consistent - that's what matters

I train max 2 hours a week its easier to adhere to and constancy and high intensity are all you need

I think the thing a lot of studies don’t take into account with muscle growth is the factors that increase with volume that is not muscle. If you do a 8-12 week study and your measurements for muscle growth is anything but MRI or muscle biopsy, the researcher will not be able to distinguish what the lean mass gained exactly is. If you put 2 groups against each other and one has more volume, there’s a good chance their glycogen stores will be able to hold more glycogen via improved glycogenesis. This effect is transient. The moment you stop with the higher volume, the improved storage of glycogen dissipates. This is what some people also confuse with “sarcoplasmic hypertrophy” which cannot be targeted specifically by training. If you were to take a year long study, what you would likely see is that after the initial 6-8 weeks of training with more volume that effect would then disappear as the increased glycogen storage is maintained and the rest of the gains made will be equivocal to a lower volume group that has been gaining muscle the entire time. Volume is not the primary driver of hypertrophy and never will be. It was always mechanical tension. I don’t think this means that 1 set is enough, but I also think beyond 6-8 sets for a muscle group in 1 session is superfluous.

Why? Its the best way to make gains..

I do a full body program that alternates on an A/B/A, B/A/B type frequency, similar to Starting Strength and StrongLifts, but tailored to the stuff I like to do. I do 2 sets per exercise instead of 3, and then I finish the workout with rest pause isolation work based on the areas I want to focus on. Is it optimal? Nah. But I feel better, recover better, and am happy with my slow and steady progress rather than burning out. I have energy to train Jiu-Jitsu on the evenings between my weight training evenings. I get injured less often than when I was hitting it really hard in years past. This is what I like. Give a good effort, I work to failure on those 2 sets per compound lift, and on my rest-pause isolation work, and get good enough results for the time and effort.

I dont really like Mike's one set to failure. In contrast, I dont like RIR or RPE work. I like the 3 working sets with one set to failure per workout as promoted by John Meadows. I also like Rep Goal system from Steve Shaw from Massive Iron for progressive overload which can also have the final rep going to failure.

@nomongosinthaworld

10 ай бұрын

Rep Goal is still ideally done with most if not all sets to failure or 0RIR depending on the exercise.

@bacawaka2813

10 ай бұрын

@nomongosinthaworld it's fine for both. I’ve done both.

PRoblem is that most people dont know where failure really is.. Same as me, i think its done, but in reality i have much more in me

I started doing reps to failure with almost no rest and it gave me gains and lot of free time! But the theorical experts will say otherwise 🤓

So what about D.U.P then, how does that apply to this? Do we go to failure on heavy lifts too, doesn't seem very safe :P

@nomongosinthaworld

10 ай бұрын

It depends on the exercise mostly. The more stable it is the easier you can push it to failure without risk. Of course load also matters, as you’ll feel more safe pushing a 20RM than 1RM but since you wanna stay above 5 reps for hypertrophy anyway you shouldn’t worry about it too much

Geoff alberts is one of e the best natural bb ever! He has been training low volume for his whole training career!

So, the old brosplit is great again??? Back in the day I trained really hard 4 times a week following a split Jay Cutler put out in a magasine. Chest/Biceps Legs/Calfs Back/Triceps Shoulders/Abs At backdays biceps got hit again indirectly. Triceps got hit again at chest day Shoulders and chest gave eachother some love too.

@labigizmo

10 ай бұрын

How many exercises, sets and reps did you do per session please?

@memorycard1000

10 ай бұрын

@@labigizmo It varied a lot. The mindset was many reps and pump. Lol. I have no definitive answer. We just trained until we felt like we were done. I sometimes felt like puking on legdays. Anyways. Always started with a compound movement. Alway went on feel but mostly we strived for 10-15 reps per set. We often threw on a bit extra weight the first set and did as many reps as we could. Then the training began with sets of mostly 10-15 reps aprox. Gha. There were no perfect program with sets and reps. Only chasing pump and train until we felt pleased. I would say for chest it could be like 4-8 sets of benchpress depending on mood and feel. Then upper chest 4 set. Inner and/or upper-inner chest 4 set. Something like that. It was years ago. And we went through many phases of reps and sets too but we trained harder back then for sure.

Currently it seems like we have two options: training like bodybuilding champions or like college students with minimal lifting experience recruited on studies.

You're just not gonna tell me leaving 3 reps in reserve on rows or bicep curls or something is better for hypertrophy. i literally feel like i didnt do anything

@nomongosinthaworld

10 ай бұрын

Yeah cause it literally won’t do shit beyond the beginner stage

Pie Chart shoulda been perfect for this video

Just here for the commercial. ✌🏻

Im a natural lifter been lifting for 7 years and why natural lifters are getting better simple because we train past failure

Simple.... its the best brain stimulus to create new/or thicker muscle fibers. As for " insane" ... doubt that unless very fresh in gym life. I train 12 + years and no matter what i do or who train me a d how i leave my guts on the gym floor ... " insane " results are no longer to be seen no matter the approach , given recovery is covered and also food and supplementation are on point. From here onwards ... either juicing or i have to accept this is my most and have to learn to love it and not be 2 greedy for enchanced physique 😂 Tbh ... compared to average ppl on street or my ex classmates who look like old guys .. i can be very very satisfied at 39 years old, but my problem now is more in my head than in the mirror, after many years of training i am now at a point that its always "not enough" ....like not enough buff when bulking or not enough size when cut to 10... when i bulk i a. 100kg at 20% bf 178cm when i cut i am around 89 kg 10-12 bf :/ i wa t to br around 100kg at 12 % ... i really doubt its possible after so many years and if i dont touch anything ped.

dr pak is so handsome

One day I tripped in my bedroom and tossed a container of creatine on my pillow. After micro snorting creatine all night I had a horrible bowel movement the following morning but after a dirty breakfast I filled out to the peak male form.

Optimal baseline: 4 sets per muscle group per week all to failure with partials

i think training to failure or near can be very successful because you can mage it very easily

You would think he would be more jacked because he would know so much with his phd. At the end of the day the only important thing are to train and not get injured

whenever volume becomes the goal, quality of training turns to garbage.... if you think otherwise you're wrong

I think it's more about the fact they are staying lean and nutrition versus failure. They would get the same gains with more volume and less intensity with the deficit they are in. Most of these kids are pretty thin overall and not very strong - chasing the Zyzz aesthetic.

The dumb thing is, even "high volume" bodybuilders like Jay Cutler would actually pyramid up to a top/working set. Meaning for every 4-5 sets they claim to be doing on each exercise, they're often only performing one actual work set. So, if they're performing a chest workout with 5 exercises on a bro split (hitting every major muscle group once a week) they're really only performing *5 WORKING SETS* a week. I'd say 5 working sets per muscle group a week is *LOW* volume.

Its very simple. Most people do high volume and work half ass.. If most people cut their reps and doubled their intensity theyd see results

🥇

Where have you been Omar, what the fuck man

@OmarIsuf

10 ай бұрын

I spent the last few years building a business which unfortunately led to highly inconsistent posting on KZread. I'm back however to a more sensible schedule and will be uploading 1x per week. Every single Monday. Appreciate all the real ones who have stuck it out.

@ghostdoggtv

10 ай бұрын

@@OmarIsuf You have been missed and your timing is as good as ever. Welcome back. Pog AF

Credit jay vincent

I wish more people would adopt Mentzer's training approach. The gyms are getting crowded lately, so 1 set and then a month of rest will be rather helpful for managing that. 1 set to actual failure is enough for optimal gains... not for those that are doing the 1 set but for the serious lifter that will benefit from their absence!

@DarkoFitCoach

10 ай бұрын

Oh come on. Dont be so jelly. Hit works

@latsblaster

10 ай бұрын

​@@DarkoFitCoachSeriously? Not getting the point?

@DarkoFitCoach

10 ай бұрын

@@latsblaster suck it buster

@djo-dji6018

9 ай бұрын

The sense of entitlement...

Lol a video about naturals with mike mentzer, Dorian yates and max whatever his name is as the thumbnail. You forgot Mike o hern too.

The saying more than one way to skin a cat comes to mind

What about training to failure for 15 to 25 sets a week 😅

Im the last real natty alive thats official 💯

I think some people respond better to higher training volume, some people respond better to lower training volume. If you feel like your 2nd training session of the week for that muscle group you are not fully recovered try lowering the volume. If you are not making incremental gains then increase the volume. Simples.

@henri3672

10 ай бұрын

It also comes down to what your body is accustomed to. Eventually your body will adapt to the stimulus of a certain style of training and when you change i.e go from high intensity to high volume etc it will be a big change that your body will see good results from it.

I'm sick of wasted time in pacing myself for multi sets...

The real question is: Why is this training, and Mentzer, getting so much push in social media right now. He's all up in my feed.

@joojotin

10 ай бұрын

Because so many people in recent times are advocating and promoting HIT and getting results. Menzer was one of the most popular people that advocated for HIT. Menzer was way way ahead of his time but he did get some things wrong, especially during his later stages of his career.

⭕️💪🏻 training harder than last time HTLT

@Scumbagsunitedclub

10 ай бұрын

🦜💪👍