I’m so glad I’m not the only long time fan who adores this game like this

The simple fact that this game generated a debate that lasts to this day and continues to change people's perspectives is more than enough to know that it is much more than a common video game.

I personally think that the fireflies didnt ask ellie for consent for the same reason joel didnt ask ellie. They were afraid of what she would say. Marlene didnt want to risk ellie saying no. 45:06

what i think is most interesting about the first conversation in tlou2 with tommy and joel is joel, being the lovable character that he is, still has many flaws and they shine through there. he doesn’t say “i killed them” he doesn’t say “i took her” he says “i SAVED her” he thinks what he did was subconsciously heroic. he really doesn’t truly see what he did wrong and although this is a flawed mindset, he’s still the loved joel he was. it’s truly like a weird father dynamic where you don’t know if you love or hate him. i never understood the hate of the second game. it’s too one of my favorite games.

@wisehat

4 күн бұрын

@@purplebanana9 joel is very easily one of the best characters in gaming, what they did with him would be so hard to replicate

@Invalidationcoded

Күн бұрын

I don't know that it's that he thought it was "heroic" or didn't see "anything wrong with it", it's that it was a very clear choice to him. Save her, or let her die. And he couldn't bear the alternative. So he saved her. There's no moral question in it for him, it was simply the choice he felt he could live with. This ties back to when he says "you keep finding something to fight for" later to Ellie. Ellie became his reason. So naturally, he must save her - it doesn't matter if it's wrong or right on any front. It's a very selfish decision, but so SO human, and that's why it's great.

@ramondpotter573

Күн бұрын

​@@Invalidationcoded Definitely agree with your paragraph 👍

Same here (along Part 1) and nobody in this universe can convince me otherwise. I haven't stopped loving or stopped thinking about TLOU since 2013 & Part 2 only refueled it and did the exact same thing again. Sadly the game is buried by so much shit online that it's no longer fun to TALK about.

Thank you man!!! I am so glad to hear that someone else is as passionate about this game as I am. You see everything the same as me about this game. This was a good video to watch not only for the opinions but how much effort you put into it. Keep up the great work!

@wisehat

4 күн бұрын

@@spincitygaming will do! And im happy i share your passion

The Last of Us 2 really made me fall in love with video games again it's beautiful!

I hope your channel blows up buddy. Love your love on TLOU 2.

It's one of my favorite games of all time because of the gameplay! It gets so insane on higher difficulties. Very easily the best enemy AI I've seen in a stealth game

As another fellow fan of TLOU2 I relate to your passion for the game, The storytelling, characters, and emotional journey make it unforgettable. Your heartfelt perspective really resonates with me, and it's great to see someone who shares the same deep appreciation for this absolute fucking masterpiece. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and reminding me why this game is so special man this video was nothing short of a banger!

@wisehat

5 күн бұрын

@@JayDaScoobs im glad to see someone resonate with the game like i did, its so spectacular and i hope part 3 is even better

This is honestlly the best video I have ever seen about this game, I played it for the first time earlier this year and was worried about not liking it because all the things people always said about it but this game is such a master piece, I loved the game and loved this video

i also love this game and i acknowledge the flaws, but i will never understand how people think those flaws ruin the game

tlou 2 is so aesthetically pleasing it just makes it my favourite game of all time

Wow!!! I'm impressed with your opinions for this game and the way you broke down why was awesome!!! This game deserves the chance to be appreciated for the masterpiece it actually is!!!

What a beautiful video. ❤ So glad to see people with the same view as me on this game, I could talk hours about it. Love how much effort you put into this.

@wisehat

20 сағат бұрын

Thank you so much!

You are so right on every point, great video

Amazing quality and production in this video I love how you pieced everything together

@wisehat

3 күн бұрын

@@narrow5741 thank you sir who i dont know

That weird sound you hear out of nowhere is me clapping. Bravo... your video is... amazing. Simply amazing. You UNDERSTAND this game. You UNDERSTAND the message OF this game. Thank you for makin git

@wisehat

7 сағат бұрын

Of course and thank you!! Im glad this resonated with you

Man you really got some people in their feelings.😂 This game is amazing. The story is so engaging and the gameplay is incredible.

LOU2 is way better cuz it has "Survival-Mode" Hell it even has great character selection than the first game (If only they added "Kid Ellie" in Survival-Mode

I’m so glad people are still talking about this game🙏 I love tlou 2 so much and never understood the hate😭 at the beginning I hated Abby but after replaying she actually became one of my absolute favorite characters in all of media🙏

Your voice is perfect for video essays!

@wisehat

Күн бұрын

@@boogiebong420 thank you!!

Absolutely 🔥 work bro

Some actions cannot be forgiven.

thanks for the context on behind each scene 😭

Honestly on release I hated this game, like I genuinely hated I just thought it's a stupid ass revenge plot. But as time goes on my opinion on this game has changed and ive come to appreciate and really love it

Glad to see someone appreciate Abby. I have gone to like her immensely over the years, even more than Ellie, as controversal as this may be for certain fans. Loved the video. Amazing job 🫶🏼

@wisehat

2 күн бұрын

thank you so much man glad to see someone else appreciate her

This was excellent new sub earned!

@wisehat

5 күн бұрын

@@lhump thank you so much kind sir

ohh boy, this is gonna be a journey to sit through

@wisehat

8 күн бұрын

@@triggerfilms chilllll

amazing video!, so refreshing to see there are people who can really take the time and aprecciate the complex and emotional narrative Naughty Dog made with this game, I have loved this game since day 1. I just hope this video came out sooner so people could see through the controversy and undeserved hatred this masterpiece of a game got!

thank god this is a good explanation for people who hate this game and how we play the person who killed joel. in this world (tlou) everyone is a bad person depending on what they do. yes joel killed the fireflies yes he killed the fire flies bc he didnt want to lose someone and joel killed abbys father who abby was someone she didnt want to lose and wanted her revenge for her father i bet if it were the other way around it would be the same thing i loveee abby and ellie the seraphites the wlf the rattlers i just love backstories the scenery (same with red dead redemption i love how micah was written) and i love this cbi thing and how ellie is immune what pissed me off is that false advertisement sucked i genuinely thought joel lived then dies 1 hour into the game but this game to me is something to me (i got platinum in just the 3rd time playing) thank you for explaining this my sister always ask why im always playing this game this is why lmao

i just finished the game for the first time and i can never agree more. literally everyone craps on this game but as if now this is my fav single player game

@wisehat

6 күн бұрын

@@not.bruce.wayne99 talk bruce you got the wzdm stamp of approval

@not.bruce.wayne99

6 күн бұрын

@@wisehat i aint bruce lil bro (shhhh)

@wisehat

6 күн бұрын

@@not.bruce.wayne99 my fault notbruce

@not.bruce.wayne99

6 күн бұрын

@@wisehat nah but fr this vid was 10/10

@wisehat

6 күн бұрын

@@not.bruce.wayne99 thank you man the support means to much!! Put my heart and soul into this

Coming back to this to argue on one point because I slightly disagree with you - Ellie doesn't "forgive Abby" for killing Joel. I see it in a different way; the real issue was that Ellie could not forgive herself for the state of their relationship at the time of his death. She projects this on Abby and blames her for "taking that chance away [from her]". Ellie held it against Joel for doing what he did at St. Mary's hospital, and yes she has plenty of reasons to have felt the way she did about it - but even then, there was no taking back what Joel did after he did it; he couldn't restore that scenario to Ellie where she sacrifices herself to save her world, even if he wanted to. But she continues to hold it against him for quite a while - it's only right before his death that she concedes she might be willing to TRY to forgive him. This inspires a great deal of guilt and pain in Ellie when he dies almost immediately after that. It leads to her not being able to forgive herself - at the moment she lets Abby leave in the end, she is finally giving herself permission to heal and feel happiness - this is exactly what she wasn't doing the entire time she was with Dina before, and why she desperately went after Abby again. She didn't know how else to help herself, and was in a similar place as Tommy mentally. Two broken people who didn't know how to cope with their own grief. I also like how you can see the misunderstandings in both Ellie's and Dina's perspective in their conversation before Ellie leaves - Dina says "we have a family, she doesn't get to be more important than that" about their family, but it's not that Ellie thinks Abby is "more important" than that, it's that Ellie won't let herself have it. And Ellie says "I'm not like you" because she's continuing to think that it's what has been DONE TO HER that is making her this way - when a good deal of it is something she is doing to herself.

@wisehat

18 сағат бұрын

@@Invalidationcoded you’re 100% right, the wording i used definitely wasnt the best but every point you made was valid and was the same thing i was trying to articulate it ifykwim

i loved this game and have defended it from many detractors. HOWEVER, I have come to realise that naughtydog had swept a SA under the rug at their company. David Ballard was the victim. In the light of this game asking to ‘see the other perspective’ it feels like it rings hollow in the wake of a SA allegation that ended with David Ballard being silently fired from the company after telling HR. The game feels off now, and I can never see its messaging the same way again

@wisehat

6 күн бұрын

@@kkickks damn what the hell . That does suck mam Jesus

@kkickks

6 күн бұрын

@@wisehat I found this out a couple days ago, he broke the news in 2017. Nothing has been done since. ND did an ‘internal investigation’ and found nothing, of course

Don’t the voice on the cassette player at 30:23 sound oddly similar to Mel?

Greatest Game ever

A lot of people seem to miss the point on this game. Of course there are valid criticisms; the pacing seems to be hit or miss for one, though it worked for me. But even today so many people point at things that actually don't matter too much in the overarcing story and use those as examples as to why the game was bad or created to force diversity. Most of the things people point to as forcing a woke agenda could be removed and it wouldn't really impact very much. The only one that would require more extensive attebtion would be if they didn't include Ellie being gay, but seeing as we already knew that from Left Behind I don't see how people would possibly believe it wouldn't still be part of her character in Part 2. I really think Part 2 is an example of diversity done _right._ The characters might be gay or trans or whatever, but it's only a portion of their personality. They were created as full, flawed people who _happen_ to be gay/trans/etc. I'm a gay woman and I'm honestly sick of media conpanies trying to push representation in everything, because it often is done to the detriment of the story. I'd rather have no representation than _bad_ representation. And this is from someone who's been a gamer since NES and really did get sick of having to play male protagonists in pretty much everything growing up lol I won't pretend that seeing Ellie as the lead protagonist, so a gay woman, didn't actually mean a lot to me; it absolutely did. I grew up during a time where i had to be closted for fear of being assaulted or fired for it. But if Naughty Dog used the game as a way to focus on LGBT stuff rather than telling a good story (that really has nothing to do with that), I would have hated it. But the focus of the story was on the hard path to forgiveness. Everything else was just a small part of the characters. I actually really related to Ellie in this game. I've felt similar rage; my childhood wasn't sunshine and roses, and learning to let go and forgive others (and myself) was probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. Ellie wasn't just struggling with her feelings around forgiving Joel, or learning to forgive Abby. She couldn't forgive herself for pushing Joel away for so long, for losing him without actually repairing their relationship. A lot of people also criticize her decision to go hunting for Abby again after the farm only to let her go. I think it fits. When Ellie left Seattle, she didn't do it on her own terms. She was beaten and broken, with people she loved who were in even worse shape. So when she left Seattle, it was because she _had_ to. When she let Abby go in Santa Barbara, it was Ellie's decision; she decided to let it go. She didn't want to be to Lev what Joel was to Abby, or what Abby was to Ellie. She needed it to be her own choice so she could start to heal. Having the choice taken from her was worse, especially after everything she went through. Also, it's always refreshing when I hear someone else who appreciates Abby's character design. So many people say no woman could be built like that without steroids, which is not at all true. Is it common? No. But women with her build do exist. My girlfriend has the same build; she's a firefighter/paramedic who is required to work out for her job. She doesn't use steroids. Just willpower. That complaint, above all, makes me eyeroll the most. And then there's Joel, and his death. People say he would never, _ever_ tell people his name, or walk into a room with people he doesn't know, or be at all complacent. I would wager most people who say that have never actually been in a setting where complacency is the difference between life and death. Even the most hardened, street-smart, battle-ready person can be conplacent. It doesn't matter how many years of experience you have. Anyone and _everyone_ is susceptible. I work in a field where complacency is a swift ticket to injury or death, and I've seen people get hurt or end up in very bad situations because of it. Hell, I've been there myself, after a decade in this job. It happens. You do your best not to allow it but it's evwntually gonna happen and you just have to hope you come out okay on the other sode and learn from it. In that scene you can see that Joel reads the room and knows something is up. He knew he was in a dangerous situation but it was too late. And to your point about how people seem to think his death was far too undignified for him; those people seem to want plot armor for a character they love. I get it. I love Joel's character, too. But i think the way it all happened was so mich more impactful. Death doesn't care if you love a person when he comes to claim them. Death is equal opportunity, and in a world as brutal as in TLoU, everyone is fair game. It comes so suddenly, and is so shocking, to anyone. Anyone can be a victim at any time, even if they have a heart of gold or people who love them. I think one of the most important messages in this game is to learn to forgive the people you love and spend as much time with them as possible, because you never know when that time's going to be up. I really enjoyed your video. It was well articulated and hopefully can help some people who didn't like the game to understand why so many of us appreciated it. I think it's a testament to Naughty Dog's abilities that we are still having these discussions in 2024, not even just about Part 2, but even Part 1. I love debating the minutiae of both games, and have reached a middle geound eith people who really disliked Part 2 on more than one occasion, where we can each understand why the other likes/dislikes the game. I'm also kinda jealous you managed to get through Part 2 without being spoiled; I got spoiled with the leaks because I was watching anything and everything about Part 2 up until relase and the backlash from the leaks was just so insane that people were intentionally trying to spoil everything.

@wisehat

Күн бұрын

Thank you so much for your thoughts!! Your interpretation of the characters are literally spot on (esp the thing about abbys build i hate when ppl talk ab that) but realistically thank you fr, the diversity of tlou is so well placed and reminds me a lot of real life, i will never understand anyone who doesn’t appreciate any kind of diversity

@AcenoxiRiley

Күн бұрын

True , people criticize/ruin/toxicated/bad-attention about LOU2 (I recently found why "Gamer-Girls" troll the LOU2 community years ago)

Honestly, yeah, this game is amazing and has been since it came out I’ve been a fan since before the original even came out, I’ve always loved the uncharted games and kept on top of naughty dogs games, I was around for for 7 years before part 2 came out and played the original tlou dozens of times, I loved Joel’s character and when he was killed in part 2 I was really angry and sad but it just made me want to see how it resolved, I can understand some peoples hate for part 2 but at the end of the day, it really is just about understanding the other side of the story and not being so enveloped with hate that you can’t learn to forgive one for their actions, clearly a bunch of people simply don’t understand that, disappointing Haven’t watched much of the video but can’t wait to hear what you have to say!

@wisehat

4 күн бұрын

@@Lunar2909 the discourse on this game is so stupid most of the time but you’re completely right joel is soooo cool i love him. Thank you so much

1:23:56 Can someone explain to me the phrase "his eater is gone"? I don't understand what eater means in this context (english is not my native language).

@wisehat

3 күн бұрын

@@Helion_Prime his wife and him took a break and no problem dude

@Helion_Prime

3 күн бұрын

​@@wisehat Thanks for answering so quickly. This is one damn good video essay. I enjoyed every bit of it. And yeah, I was one of the people who were confused at first glance about Tommy's behavior in that scene, but then I got the remaster, played it with the commentary on, and I understood the whole perspective.

@wisehat

3 күн бұрын

@@Helion_Prime thank you and im glad you did, the whole game revolves around that kinda mindset and when you really look at Tommys Situation it makes sense to me

Love the gameplay, didnt like the story, but still always fun to see people’s thoughts

See, it took me a few playthroughs to realize this, but…Abby is not a good person. I know, duh, obviously, but, that never really hit me until the last time I played through the game. Her response to the WLF killing a bunch of kids boils down to “not our fault lmao”. That’s messed up. I love Abby, but with one caveat; I love her POST-meeting Lev and Yara. Then, you see her grow into the person she used to be and could’ve been, had she not been absolutely consumed with violence and revenge and apathy. I love her relationship with Lev. I remember the first time I played through the game, I didn’t want Ellie to kill her at the end, and I’m glad she wasn’t.

@wisehat

2 күн бұрын

youre 100% right but no one in this game is one frfr

This account has some wild takes lmao

@wisehat

5 күн бұрын

@@earpolution05 gonna take that as a compliment! Thank you fella

@misterhoobomaster

3 күн бұрын

This take isn't as wild as you think it is. It may be "wild" online in "discussion circles" but the people I know who played Part 2 that aren't chronically online mostly loved the game.

finally someone with a brain talking about this game. Completely agree with 1: Ellie and Dina´s relationship isnt forced on us and 2: The game doesnt manipulate us into liking Abby ( The last video I just watched said that). Despite watching gameplays I only got to play the game this year, and I began HATING Abby for what she did and rooting for Ellie cus you know, shes our girl! When Abby is caught by she scars and strangles one of them with her legs I caught myself actually cheering for her and scolded myself for that ( because Im on Ellie´s side, obviously!) I remember in the beggining not liking Joel´s death because it was so... underwhelming. We barely got time to grive or say goodbye. And as I kept playing that happened again and again. They killed my man Jessie! just like that, like he was just some guy! and then I realized... He IS just some guy to the other side. He is important to us as the player, but on the other side he´s a nobody. The same with Manny. I got the parallels without realizing at first. I kept saying he was Abby´s Jessie, he was the POC bestfriend until he died. Just like that. Like he was some random guy. Because to Tommy, he was. Thats when I realized that this whole thing wasnt about good or bad. We view Abby like the bad guy because we already know Joel and Ellie, but if the first game was about Abby and her father, we would be hating on Ellie. The other side isnt bad cus they killed people we cared about, because we killed their loved ones as well, and for them, we are the monsters. I wish and I know Ellie wished she had been given time to grieve Joel and Jessi ( and Abby to grieve her whole crew), but sometimes, death is just like that. Especially in a world like that. People just die. No heroic deaths no nothing. Imagine all those who died on patrol, or all those hanging bodies on the forest and on the beach! They had families and friend and yet we dont seem to care. I like that this games gives something that feels like a real world. People have names and inside jokes and have dogs that they love. Everytime we kill someone, theyre friend scream, they scream for their dogs just like I would scream for mine. It forces us to remember that no, these characters arent just NPC , thos are people and we´re killing everything they love and they must be terrified!

imma tweak out bru

@plague74

6 күн бұрын

bro same i fr was abt to crash out when he said its not controversial to say part 2 is better than part 1

@wisehat

5 күн бұрын

@@plague74 chaosive look what youve done #Ididnowrong #seethelight

that's adorable but this game has way too many narrative issues not only from a personal perspective but a writer's persepective as well

thats a great analysis. i think its a good game too but hated joel dying . i think there were a lot of fans of him and i don't like when u get close to a character and they rip them away. and elly shouldve kill abby, she sucks. i bet in 3 abbyll cut her arms off and shell regret it

@vee._x

2 күн бұрын

You cannot like Ellie if you hate Abby, and it's the other way around too, they went out for revenge for the exact same reason, avenging their father figure. Joel was a great character but he wasn't a good person and Ellie didn't kill Abby because she realised it wouldn't make a difference to how she felt and the cycle of violence would just continue. I also believe Ellie let Abby go as that was the moment she allowed herself to forgive Joel which was what Abby took away from her, we can see Ellie attempt to leave it behind when she leaves the guitar that Joel gave to her.

@wisehat

2 күн бұрын

i highly doubt ellies gonna hunt abby AGAIN LMAOOOOO

Every major moment in this game only happens bc of coincidences. To me it made everything they tried to do feel cheap since it was so contrived instead of feeling natural. Thats one of 2 things that hold the story back for me personally. The other being Abby having 0 arc to make me give a fuck about her. Everything they tried to do with Abby lead up to her wanting to kill a pregnant Dina proving shes nothing more than an animal and psychopath who should die bc actually insane. Lev stopping her from killing Abby doesnt change anything. To say it did would be like saying Joel got seth to stop being a bigot bc he stopped seth from being a bigot… But good video man high ass quality for sure only suggestion i would have (which is a nitpick) would be to get a better mic but your current mic is good enough to chill with for a while

@wisehat

6 күн бұрын

@@dmdudes2 how could you not care about abby 😭😭 you play as her for 10+ hours, yall just blinded cuz she killed joel and immediately mentally check out of the game, abby literally just maneuvered thru a crazy bloody war and came back and saw her man and her best friend CLAPPED . How is the joel ans seth thing the same thing at all though ion see it , thanks for the praise though appreciate it 🙏🏾

@dmdudes2

6 күн бұрын

@@wisehat Because Abby A. manipulated her dad to do the surgery he didnt want to do B. She tortured a man with no remorse idgaf she killed Joel but how is she ok she tortured the man? C. Was a bitch to all of her friends including Owen bc he was dating Mel D. Turned on the entirety of the Wlf who all knew her by name meaning she had a relationship with these people E. Wanted to slit a pregnant persons throat letting her slowly bleed out while Ellie watches F. Just like the rest of the game has every major moment filled with contrivances like running into Joel, being saved by yara last second, not getting shot by tommy instead of manny when when tommy was after specifically Abby and had been looking at them through a high powered scope long enough to recognize them, how she happens to leave right before Ellie gets the aquarium, how yara happens to save abby from issac. And so on but thats a lot. Also Abby wanted to do something terrible like a kill a pregnant lady. She couldnt bc a 3rd party stopped her. Seth wanted to do something terrible like be a bigot. He couldnt bc a 3rd party stopped him. See how there is 0 character change or realization that what they’re doing is fucked up? They literally just stop bc someone else asked them. Though maybe Maria making seth apologize the next day would be a better comparison for you.

@dmdudes2

6 күн бұрын

@@wisehat y’all see someone dislike the game and just dont read what they have to say. It’s actually crazy how u can disregard everything i said and say “you just didnt like the fact she killed Joel” when Ellies story had just as many problems as Abbys. But you still managed to read the praise. Get your head out of ur ass

@dmdudes2

6 күн бұрын

@@wisehat to be clear tlou1 had contrived writing at times but it was reserved for 2 very specific parts so they dont get in the way of the rest of the story. The first being Joel being able to survive the fall onto a spike. This was done for the Ellie david section to happen. And the 2nd was Joel and Ellie stumbling on Tommy. Which was done bc how the fuck else would they find him. But thats one 2 moments of contrived riding vs every major moment having it

@wisehat

6 күн бұрын

abby didnt manipulate her dad what he was gonna do it anyway he was trying to convince marlene to let him do it her torturing joel makes perfect sense..? why would she let the man who she thinks ruined her life get a quick death c literally doesnt mattee at all everyone in these games is a b*tch to their friends and the tensions with her friends makes a lot of sense considering their situation the wlf turned on her first to be fair they literally locked her up (they only did because she went mia didnt know of the scars) and i think her turning her back on them makes perfect sense for her character (explained in video) For E, at the time (and literally since) i also said this in the video, she most definitely inferred Ellie did the same with mel so literally you cant blame her lmao Running into joel and yara are fair tbh yara is the only one i was kinda like wtf? But running into joel makes sense had to interlock the stories somehow , the manny one was just cause he was closer i mean duh She wasnt there when ellie got to teh aquarium because she went to the island to find lev? and it wasnt right before it was in the morning And literally almost killing a pregnant lady and seth saying things (he wasnt gonna do anything at all) i said why Abby stopped and didnt kill dina in the video and how it perfectly fits her character, not “just because someone asked her” and she does realize like what 😭😭

Your opinion is wrong, cope and seethe.

@wisehat

4 күн бұрын

@@notarealgamer07 get a grip son

@Lunar2909

4 күн бұрын

Bud, sounds like you’re the only one who is seething, cope loser

The radical left wing propaganda they tried to stuff Part 2 with is what kept it from being a masterpiece like Part 1. If there is one thing gamers HATE it’s having radical left wing ideology shoved down their throats non stop after they paid $60 for a game for entertainment. The 68% Metacritic rating really shows how badly Naughty Dog screwed up with that. They made Ellie a pervert. They made Dinah a sexual predator. They made Lily a mentally ill murderer. They made Abby a dude. Basically the only normal characters in the entire game are Joel and Owen and they killed both of them off. All in all 3 stars out of 10 for the brainwashing and propaganda.

@wisehat

3 күн бұрын

ur actually astoundingly dumb no lie

@mysteronix

3 күн бұрын

Your video brought all the crazies to your yard. Game is GOAT.

@wisehat

3 күн бұрын

@@mysteronix talk ur shit goat

@forfeckssakekevin8815

3 күн бұрын

I really hope you’re trolling because this comment is the most basement-dwelling chronically online shit I’ve ever seen lmao

@pomegranate_enjoyer

3 күн бұрын

@blake7587 genuine question do you have a fucking brain? Like how do you even manage to formulate an opinion like this? Is there anything swishing around in there aside from tumbleweeds?