It was probably Rikishi, who did it for The Rock.

@EliteTrainerKenway

4 ай бұрын

😂😂😂😂

@an0gr0br

4 ай бұрын

No! He did it for the people!

@Themyththemanjamesm

4 ай бұрын

Yo! I love this comment 😂

@ChrisFactor

4 ай бұрын

Zing👍

@danevertt3210

4 ай бұрын

He deed it

Regardless of who killed WCW, Kellner is a monster. He killed so many amazing cartoons.

@lovecraftianleviathan8918

4 ай бұрын

He cancelled Angel, too, even though it was the highest rated show on the WB at the time, ending the Buffy universe, which could’ve been the next Star Trek and would probably be running to this day if he hadn’t been so petty.

@jcngokai-76

4 ай бұрын

@@lovecraftianleviathan8918the irony was that Jamie Kellner was a wrestling fan, but he also understood that if a business under corporate ownership couldn’t sustain its own success in the long term, you might as well just cut the losses.

@rinzo2009

4 ай бұрын

So Jamie was the guy that cut short the life of Batman Beyond, eh? He's just made a hater in me. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

@num1Jaysta

4 ай бұрын

@@lovecraftianleviathan8918 And never getting a Faith Spinoff

@matthewpulama106

4 ай бұрын

As the meme goes, "F*** Jamie Kellner! All my homies hate Jamie Kellner!"

Scott Hall said it best “We made allot of money and spent WAY MORE then we made.”

@conservativewarrior777

28 күн бұрын

He always believed it was mismanagement that lead to WCWs demise!

@josephchristiansen1803

28 күн бұрын

@@conservativewarrior777he wasn’t wrong though.

It was death by 1000 cuts.

@darylmixan8170

3 ай бұрын

Wrestlers had huge guaranteed contracts and the stable was so huge that guys didn't have to wrestle or come up with content. Most of the talent was older ex-WWF stars that were already established and didn't have to prove anything... The fueds got old real fast... It was exciting in the beginning of N.W.O... It was like a few badass gangs fighting each other... Like Hells Angels vs Mongols, so that was sweet... but then it became that week after week... and the fights weren't personal, they were just kinda like "these guys are rivals so they hate each other"

@RobertHenderson.poopiebear

3 ай бұрын

Good point. I think Hogan was the biggest problem but I have to agree... It was a perfect storm of nonsense going on backstage and in the boardroom...so in the end there's plenty of blame to go around.

@FerretJohn

3 ай бұрын

​@@darylmixan8170no, it was not the wrestlers, not even Hogan. Yes the top guys could practically do whatever they wanted, but if you give guns to monkeys you don't blame the monkeys when people get shot.

@CurlyFromTheSwirly

3 ай бұрын

Death by 10,000 broken guitars

@jaybeeo1530

3 ай бұрын

Really was

It was mainly backstage management. Then the AOL/time Warner merger.

@SinistralEpoch

4 ай бұрын

The Nitro book goes into that pretty well. It's not even up for debate anymore. It was never the TV booking that actually killed it. lol. AOL/Time Warner's folks didn't want wrestling. The Time Warner execs in particular had wanted to kill WCW for years because they could get better revenue for running re-runs of Seinfield. The only reason WCW stayed around was because Ted Turner promised Crockett when it bought it that as long as he was in-charge, wrestling would have a place on his network, and kept his word. If you're going to read any book on the subject, "The Death of WCW" is a terribly sourced book. Very little of what's in that book could be considered "fact" by journalistic standards - it relies on a lot of rumors and gossip. "Nitro" on the other hand, is *very* well researched. It talks to first hand sources, including former Turner execs. Which is where that theory comes from.

@clifforddavidson7273

4 ай бұрын

No it was the booking that killed WCW because well yes Time Warner eventually took WCW off television. You know what would have saved it if it didn't lose 60 million dollars in a single year you know what caused it to lose 60 million dollars in a single year the terrible booking so

@Cander5142

4 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@clifforddavidson7273thank you. Been saying this for years against this dumb argument. If WCW was still a big success there is no way board members and share holders would allow this. Everyone uses the “well the board didn’t want WCW from the start”. They are referring to a different time when WCW was not a success and losing money. Things were vastly different in 2000 in the landscape of how companies operate. Especially publicly traded ones. It was no longer something advertisers kept away from too. Another thing very different from a decade+ prior.

@arashitendou5941

4 ай бұрын

@@Cander5142even so anyone that even does a cursory search on Kellner can show you the guy is a corpo suit of the worst kind By WCW’s end it had largely trimmed away its worst parts and would soon have its most expensive ones out of contract and gone (Hogan, Nash, etc) I mean the last Nitro showed this with who was actually on the card Many people backstage and working both for Ted and WCW had small hopes that Eric could make the purchase earlier on cause if he could buy the rights he could keep WCW around and secure it elsewhere possible (that last part of moving it was rumored only) But Kellner had zero care and just sold the entire program and all assets on the cheap allowing Vince to pick it up with hardly even a dent in his account Then in the future and Kellner continues his reign of corporate crap and he actively killed multiple cartoons on his own networks thinking children wanted more live actions shows instead, most of which factually got lasted no more then 1 or 2 seasons before THEIR ratings sunk and no one watched them

@JimmyinGA

4 ай бұрын

👏

Whoever told Tony Schiavone to spoil the Mankind vs Rock finish.

@jeremyzak654

4 ай бұрын

That would be Eric Bischoff. It was a tactic he used during the Monday night wars. WWE would pre-tape there shows back then and Eric would spoil the results of that match on Nitro ahead of time. It was a tactic that worked up until he got to The Rock vs. Mankind. I guess Bischoff underestimated Mick Foley's popularity and it completely backfired on him😂

@MrBranh0913

4 ай бұрын

No they said that even after viewers switched they then switch back to Nitro. Because it was going to be Kevin Nash vs Hogan. Then the finger poke of doom happened. There was a lot of interest in this match. So it was a missed opportunity. This was probably Hogan creative control. Who knows

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

@@jeremyzak654he also underestimated Austin as well…

@shuturmouthkeeptlkn9384

3 ай бұрын

​@MrBranh0913 Nash said it was both him and Hogan who came up with the "finger poke of doom" he though it would raise heat until next ppv, but by that time fans had enough of WCW wrestler creative control and tunes out in mass. I was one of those fans.

@nexus6163

3 ай бұрын

eric getting rid of syxx

It's kind of funny that Jim Crocket Promotions died when Dusty and Flair and "all the boys" took full advantage of Crocket's ambition and started living it up on private jets and living like rock stars and grabbing as much money as possible and then the company tanked and Jim sold it to Turner. Then Bischoff became the next sucker to fall for it.

@chrischar9428

4 ай бұрын

Or when Crockett didn't have a competent accountant

@darylmixan8170

3 ай бұрын

WCW unfortunately tried to be WWE... If they went back to a Jim Crockett platform it would have worked.

@hundoe100

3 ай бұрын

Wcw was far more profitable than jcp ever was I think end of the day what ultimately killed wcw was the constant change of bookers after the AOL time warner merger, which was not in 96 as stated in this video.... toward the end when they had John Laurinaitis booking it started to be good again, or at least much better than it had been, and on a cheaper budget and they still ended up selling sadly.

@chrischar9428

3 ай бұрын

@@hundoe100 change of bookers...lol

@hundoe100

3 ай бұрын

​@chrischar9428 constant change of them ... yes. The little storyline they had made no sense, they would just stop with nothing ever coming of it. People getting pushed then all of a sudden they're opening nitro and not even in a feud they were in. IIRC when they had Kevin Sullivan back booking was why Benoit left, and he took Eddie Dean and Saturn with him... I never said it was the sole reason but im sure it played a big part. It's almost like if you changed writers 5 times on a season of a TV show, but they all had different ideas of how the season should go....

"And in the end, the death of WCW was blamed on...oh lets say, Moe."

Vince McMahon: "It was me all along!"

@sampleoffers1978

4 ай бұрын

It was, via Bischoff, but whether broader pro sports sanctioned the implosion when they saw the money it made that one year is question. It really did not peak in it's booking and might have been sustainable, with less funding needed than mlb or nfl.

@majintv24

4 ай бұрын

Jim Ross"Oh Sunuva Bitch"

@Lemont5236

4 ай бұрын

“Ah son of a b****”

@rnalonto

4 ай бұрын

JR: AWWWWW, SON OF A B----!!!!!

@alienlife7754

3 ай бұрын

🤣😂😆

When the bubble bursted, AOL was liquidating assets like madmen. They not only sold WCW, they sold all the sports teams; the Atlanta Braves(baseball), the Hawks(basketball), the Thrashers(hockey),all the buildings they played in and other assets. Vince McMahon swooped in, bought it and then killed it.

@rlouie05

2 ай бұрын

For a few million, which VKM made back by "best of WCW" tapes from their video libraries alone. AOL wanted WCW gone at any cost. Too bad even AOL is now a memory too.

It's a mixture of all of them, but the AOL merger definitely affected them the most.

@DebitAdams

4 ай бұрын

Ted has an personal connection with WCW and would pump it with money to keep it alive, AOL was an business that didn't see WCW as an money maker anymore.

@HarleyQuinnSoldier

4 ай бұрын

​@@DebitAdams AOL wanted to make it appealing to advertisers & Ted was the only one who wanted wrestling on Turner network

@DebitAdams

4 ай бұрын

@Red_Hood_Outlaws If WCW keep their high ratings and was beating RAW, it would have been appealing to advertisers. WCW numbers weren't always accurate and running at an loss, that's why the top names signed contracts with Time Warner instead so their contracts wouldn't be considered in their finances.

@HarleyQuinnSoldier

4 ай бұрын

@@DebitAdams my point being that it ultimately was AOL that killed off WCW as well as Ted Turner just putting money into every little thing without second guessing it

@DebitAdams

4 ай бұрын

@@HarleyQuinnSoldier Similar to my first comment then

I'm not a Russo defender, but as far as leaving WWF because they were adding a show and going to WCW who were also adding a show, I believe Russo has said that the issue was that he wasn't going to get paid more for the added workload and responsibilities. Moving to WCW saw him take on more work and responsibilities, but he was also paid more to do it.

@MrLuisisthebest

4 ай бұрын

You forgot to add "bro" to the end of your comment. Otherwise, good point bro

@Gametester110-qf8vs

3 ай бұрын

@@MrLuisisthebest WTF, bro? Why'd you even bring that up? Not cool, bro. Not cool.

@Vau_

3 ай бұрын

WCW already had Thunder when Russo joined and Thunder was not his main responsability. Plus he was allowed more time with his family in NY than in WWF. Vince wanted him on the road 365 days a year.

@YashMezzala

3 ай бұрын

Respect the hustle

@CurlyFromTheSwirly

3 ай бұрын

Oh boo hoo for little Russo.

The president of time warner I assume will be the answer. Lossing their tv spot is always gonna kill your program if no one can watch easy

@omarkennedy7056

4 ай бұрын

Ok not 100% right but called it

@jimbowlan5804

4 ай бұрын

@omarkennedy7056 Turner owned wcw when Ted lost control of his own company in the merger aol didn’t want wcw so biscoff had a backer but aol didn’t want wrestling on their tv when that happened biscoffs backer backed out and aol sold wcw to vince for Pennie’s on the dollar

@Brimbino

3 ай бұрын

Thats bullshit answer if thats what they say, (just started the video) because lets be real if wcw was still doing massive number the tv spot isnt going anywhere

@kidthorazine

3 ай бұрын

@@jimbowlan5804 Yep, and this was about a decade before streaming really took off, let alone live OTT streaming.

@jcngokai-76

3 ай бұрын

@@jimbowlan5804 wasn’t just AOL, the TimeWarner management also hated wrestling

KELLNER CANCELLED THE BATMAN ANIMATED SERIES!!!!!!!! This man is the epidemy of evil.

33 1/3 % chance that it wasn't Scott Steiner

@Elffy69

2 ай бұрын

Kurt angle knows he can't beat Scott steiner so he won't even try

@alyours2889

Ай бұрын

But that is not taking account of the other 74.23% advantage from his peaks...so it was more like 107.53% - 3.43% from the bad refs...so it left 104.10% ...+ 21.83% of awesomeness bonus...so 125.93% chances it was Big Poppa...get it right brah! 😊

@WordsMatter1982

9 күн бұрын

The math checks out ​@@alyours2889

I think you did Bischoff a bit dirty in his pre-Nitro era, after he took charge from Bill Watts. He wasn't spending big at the start, he was carrying out a lot of cost saving measures including the move to Disney MGM, cutting travel costs, cutting production costs including staff, and only going after Hogan and Hart - all other wrestlers came to him, including Randy Savage who he basically got for free due to the Slim Jim deal. In fact arguably he saved the company in 1994, because Watts left it in such a bad condition.

@datacipher

4 ай бұрын

Yep.. and his strategy was a lot more than: spend money and buy talent lol. He also got a bunch of other basic facts wrong… salary, etc.

@Robman0908

3 ай бұрын

WCW was close to closing their doors prior to the nWo story. It saved the company…at least until Time Warner finally killed it off

@djangofett4879

3 ай бұрын

Bischoff also wasnt a card carrying KKK member like Bill Watts... so he has that going for him. he wasnt in the KKK

@user-mw2hn6zy9y

3 ай бұрын

But the problem is, wcw cost what a good quality first baseman did to Turner.

@datacipher

3 ай бұрын

@@Robman0908 that is true. It was conveyed to Eric when he took over that as much as Ted liked wrestling, if it didn’t turn around he was pulling the plug.

When WCW told us that Mankind won the World Championship. And everyone flipped to WWF to see it

@sampleoffers1978

4 ай бұрын

And that was probably Vince wanting to hurt Foley on paper, but Trumped by wcw sabotaging itself.

@jjlegg

4 ай бұрын

Absolutely loving these new Saturday vids like this

@RobertGreenwald

4 ай бұрын

Revealing WWE’s results was a Bischoff thing, so that would be traced back to him.

@Tim_is_a_hooligan

4 ай бұрын

Tony Schiavone killed WCW confirmed

@ianbyrne465

4 ай бұрын

@@RobertGreenwaldI just love that they were doing it for years and being petty, only for it to coincide with the Fingerpoke, and ended up being a major blow when they convinced people to tune to WWF

WCW killed WCW. Allowing old guys to have creative control and not allowing young guys to breakout Scott Stiener, DDP, and Booker T Should have been Main Eventers long before they where. Guys like Konnan , Kanyon, and Buff Bagwell could easily been top guys.

@BigBass-xf5yi

3 ай бұрын

Nash wasn’t the greatest booker either.

@charlottestreet3301

Ай бұрын

​@@BigBass-xf5yi the hog wild also cost them money to and also hairing kiss

You also have to take into account the popularity of the N64 games at the time. It can’t be stressed enough how the license of the AKI games going from WCW to WWF influenced many kids to make the switch as well, which was all right around the time that the switch over of fans started hitting

@jokerswank6082

2 ай бұрын

AKI was the shit when it came to wrestling games. Still playable to this day unlike what Acclaim and LJN put out.

@Schwarty81

Ай бұрын

Def was not video games lol. Jesus

No matter how many "Death of WCW" videos and docs I watch... I can NEVER get enough. Never...

@BiggieTrismegistus

2 ай бұрын

😄 By this point we've been watching them for about 2 decades. I read the book too.

Ok the most frustrating part about all that is finding out what Kellner did to my cartoons. Anyways, excellent video!

the death of WCW wasn't just one thing. it was a multitude of multiple things, from bad leadership, bad booking, bad decisions, ego, bad luck, among other things. There are a ton of moments that let wcw crumble, from them saying mankind was gonna win the championship, to the finger poke of doom, to putting the belt on Arquette and Russo, to plenty of others. There was just so many things that wcw did wrong.

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

I also think Statcsde 97 was poorly booked (Sting squashes Hogan and instead it was the “fast count”

@1980Triumph

4 ай бұрын

Man, you know so much without having been there and having never talked to anyone involved

@thefuturist8864

2 ай бұрын

@@1980Triumphthere have been countless videos, articles and books about that period in wrestling history. It’s not necessary to have been working for WCW to know what was going on. I think you wanted to make a smart quip but failed. Never mind. Go and read a book about jokes so you know how to make them in the future.

@tremaynecaldwell1693

2 ай бұрын

I agree

@1980Triumph

2 ай бұрын

@@thefuturist8864 - yes and they all say that it was the merger and the lack of interest from management regarding wrestling that killed the business. So, when some wrestling fanboy makes stupid claims like this it just ruins any real meaningful conversation.

Starrcade '97 was such an easy lay-up that even now, 27yrs later, it boggles the mind that they fucked it up so greatly. Even ignoring the idiotic decision to have Luger beat Hogan first (thus showing it was not a John Wick-style impossible task), the match should have just been a glorified squash with Sting trouncing Hogan (even no-selling the Atomic Legdrop), winning the title and ending the nWo angle on a high.

@glennross85

4 ай бұрын

It was Hogan. Hogan did it for the Hogan.

@RG-lr4pk

3 ай бұрын

​@@onewarriornation602don't forget Sting's drug problem. Bischoff and Hogan take all of the slings and arrows and both have NEVER mentioned Sting's problems. Thankfully Sting finally put out an article a couple of years ago where he even said he's lucky to be alive considering how bad his issues were in 1997.

@onewarriornation602

3 ай бұрын

@@RG-lr4pk That's what's funny about the Hogan Derangement Syndrome the neckbeards all have, Sting has come out numerous times talking about how he was heavily addicted to painkillers and alcohol during that whole thing, miserable and his life was falling apart causing a whole host of issues. Yet the basement dwellers plug their ears and continue trying to run with the Meltzer narratives regarding that time period.

@CurlyFromTheSwirly

3 ай бұрын

That was WCW. Either ignoring/forgetting long term plans or simply throwing them away for spontaneous idiocy. I'm not saying the Luger victory was bad, but for him to manhandle the whole legion of nWo run in attempts was,sometimes that could have been done differently. Such as even when Goldberg won the title the next year, it was DDP who stopped the run in letting the match continue fairly.

@CurlyFromTheSwirly

3 ай бұрын

​@@onewarriornation602 You think a hero beating up a villain would be worse than what actually happened? 😂

Jamie Kelner pulled the plug on the dying patient, but someone else put the patient on life support in the first place.

@austindolan7182

2 ай бұрын

they also axed monstervision, which was such a fan favorite they brought joe bob back almost 20 years later.

I’m really enjoying these, well edited, well researched videos! Keep it up!

This was a phenomenal video, learned a lot of stuff about WCW that I wasn’t too familiar with. Well done WrestleTalk!

@TrippieFox

4 ай бұрын

Exactly!!!

Another banger of video essay. Keep them coming, i love them

Luke... this was yet another incredible piece of work you all put together. The research and detail was amazing! Thanks for another great video essay guys. Love these!!

The Radicalz left after Bischoff was gone. That was what made WCW call Eric back

@dodesskiy1

4 ай бұрын

All 4 were upset they never had the main titles. The worst part to me personally, they were making good money. They had their specific fans, including myself. Under Bischoff they were allowed to do normal matches exactly like in Japan. What I saw in the WWF with them was misusing them severely at first, then having them in things still worse than anything they did in NJPW, ECW, or WCW. I'd say in 2 cases the pressure to look "big" enough for Mc Mahon lead to the early deaths, and in 1 case murder too. I get it they took steroids before then, but I bet they really overdid it in the WWF. To me Malenko's treatment was the worst. He was my guy in the mid 90s, and then they do that to him. Oh well, what happened happened.

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

Kevin Sullivan getting the book also made Benoit wanting to leave for obvious reasons

@TL2354

4 ай бұрын

@@dodesskiy1What the hell are you talking about?

@kc1john

4 ай бұрын

And Russo too. Kevin Sullivan booking was somehow even more of a disaster. He tried to put the title on Benoit as a last ditch peace attempt only for all of them to immediately leave anyway the next day. Made the company look like a joke, which it pretty much was at that point.

@CurlyFromTheSwirly

3 ай бұрын

​@@TL2354 It seems he's talking about WCW

"WCW screwed WCW" -Jamie Kellner

Loving these special Saturday videos. As a WCW kid I was super sad to see what happened. Great video as always.

Once again the WrestleTalk boys have put out an amazing video essay! Keep up the incredible work!

Jaime Kellner didn't just kill wcw. He killed wrestling. Giving vince no competition is why wrestling slowly sank in popularity and ppl saying now is like the attitude era...no. not even close. wwe has improved but it only gets at best 1/5 of the attitude Era audience

@soulcrusher807

3 ай бұрын

It is super popular now. The difference is TV is dying. So ratings are not a good way to gage the popularity. It especially has become bigger around the world.

@BeyondDaX

3 ай бұрын

​@@soulcrusher807 It's super popular but it's only super popular everywhere but 'merica with their tik toks, fortnite and whatever else zoomers like.

@BlossomField91

3 ай бұрын

@@soulcrusher807 Pro-wrestling is not as popular now as it was in the 1980s, 90s, and early 00s. Hulk Hogan, Stone Cold, and The Rock in their heydays had mainstream popularity that transcended wrestling. People with zero interest in wrestling knew who they were from pop culture. Everyone knew who Undertaker, DX, etc were No one since then, not even John Cena, managed to do that. Certainly not any of the wrestlers now. The chances are, if you have never followed wrestling (and don't have kids, etc who follow it), you've probably never even heard of Cena (except from Hollywood nowadays maybe), Reigns, etc. Brock Lesnar became 100x more bankable (and he was already a top WWE star when he left in 2004) because he went to UFC and won the Heavyweight Championship. If he'd stayed in wrestling he would've never reached those heights.

@BlossomField91

3 ай бұрын

I think you overestimate how much of this under control of Vince and the pro-wrestling world. If Vince could've kept the Attitude Era going, he would've. But it was beyond his control that he lost The Rock and Stone Cold as full time wrestlers (no one has come close to the starpower they had) and wrestling losing relevance in pop culture because of the internet and the rise of things like UFC. Vince *tried* to keep the Attitude Era going, technically, with the Ruthless Aggression era. It was still TV 14, it still had lots of violence, blood, objectifying the fuck out of the female roster (bra and panties matches etc), 'adult' storylines. It just didn't have the same appeal or star power anymore, and they were bleeding money. That's why they went TV PG and started catering more to kids, because it was great for getting that sweet advertising revenue in.

@soulcrusher807

3 ай бұрын

@BlossomField91 the difference now is not in the home base, but the expansion into other markets. That more than makes up for not being as popular in North America.

Love these deep dive type videos. Great work as always fellas.

Before watching: it was the AOL-Time Warner merger that did WCW in. Ratings for the 2 weekly shows were still the highest of any program on either station. But AOL wanted nothing to do w/ wrasslin'. EDIT: yup! While guys like Hogan, Bischoff, Russo really started it swirling the drain, even Turner making mistakes, it was the final merger that really killed it. Bischoff could've at least saved the brand w/ AOL cooperation. They didn't. Competition was over, WWE was alone and the product has never recovered.

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

Wwe would kill to have those rating these days and I honestly think the company would have turned it around as Aj styles was coming into his own, and such…

Great Video Now though, you have rekindle my hate for Jamie Kellner Bastard took away half my favorite cartoons!!!!!!!

That doesn't work for me, brother.

I never knew that Turner opposed the AOL merger, and wanted one with NBC instead. Can you imagine how different the entertainment landscape as a whole would have been if they had listened to him? Warner would have grown to be as big or bigger than Disney. I think the real killer of a lot of things were the Time Warner board decided to go with AOL, and I also think that not enough people give Turner the credit he deserves

@khaitranngoc4176

3 ай бұрын

WCW and 90s NBA on the same network sounds like Money. Lots and LOTS of money.

@shaneharrisnj3484

3 ай бұрын

​@@khaitranngoc4176 funny enough, NBC and TNT both co-produced NASCAR races together from 01-06. Plus, commentators Bill Weber, Wally Dahlenbach and pit reporter Marty Snyder split time on TNT with NASCAR in 2007 and 08, while also doing American Le Mans (IMSA), CORR off road trophy truck racing and Champcar (CART) on NBC following the 1st departure of NASCAR on NBC.

Before I watch this it has been stated repeatedly that the driving force that killed the promotion was Ted Turner being phased out after the Time Warner merger. Time Warner did not want wrestling on either TNT or TBS and eventually got their way. This was well in motion before Vince Russo was even hired.

I always felt bad for Ted Turner over the AOL merger. He gave wrestling a home. A couple bad decisions and he lost control of his company. But, yeah, that Jamie guy killed so many of my childhood shows 😡

Nice! An educational video from wrestletalk including the right amount of jokes! No overdoing it with a mask or unfunny jokes. I appreciate videos like this. It reminds me of the old days of wrestletalk

Nash booking himself over Goldberg was the beginning of the end

Love these Saturday video essays

16:41 You know, back in the PS2 days when when the Smackdown games were the best thing ever, I created a wrestler called 'The Wall', never knowing that there was a wrestler by that name in WCW. In fairness, I didn't watch WCW much.

@undertakernumberone1

4 ай бұрын

want me to one up ya? WHen i got my hands on one of the PS1 Smackdown games... can't remember which one... I hadn'T had much exposure to pro wrestling at the time except for the old SNES Raw game. I put UNdertaker and Kane in a team named "Big Red Machine"...

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

The Wall got over the guy he was supposed to the bodyguard of (Alex Wright had a great rebrand and unfortunately he stopped lifting weights and came in all pale and flabby)… he had a nice Chokeslam

@jokerswank6082

2 ай бұрын

Funny enough I had a friend who created himself on no mercy and called himself "Chainz". If I had known there was already a wrestler with that name, I'd have called him out on it.

@user-fc3ki3gb7u

Ай бұрын

You mean Snoozedown

According to Bischoff, Hogan very rarely used his creative control… keep in mind he has a lose Billy Kidman…he used his creative control for his match with Sting because Sting didn’t want to win because he was struggling with an addiction issue but in Hogan’s mind it was the only conclusion that made sense so as a middle ground they settled on a Dusty finish, notice Sting didn’t remain champion for long and after he lost it he disappeared from TV.

Would be funny if Vince was wearing a Ted Turner disguise, and then came to WWF and then said "It was me WCW! It was me all along!"

Love the time and work that went into this. More of this sort of content please.

Only a few mins in, but props on the production of this guys! Top top work!

If I may paraphrase Jim cornette here on this topic "Everybody had a finger in that ol' W***e"

Hogan then Russo. Starrcade 1997 was the start of the beginning of the end followed by the Fingerpoke of Doom.

@michaeld1889

4 ай бұрын

Agreed. If Hogan had lost clean and let the nWo die: it wouldve been remembered as one of the greatest stories ever. Still beloved and everything leading up to that match was perfect but Hogans ego won't be denied. Then, there was Russo's "reset" God it was awful.

This was excellent! It was informative, funny, and outright entertaining. Well done! I look forward to more of these in the future.

I love videos like this! I'm always wanting to learn things that i never really knew i wanted to know about lol.

Luke you really did a great job on the two videos i've seen you do deep dives. You guys deserve wrestling awards for this content. Informative and entertaining. Well done WrestleTalk team.

My answer will actually always be AOL Time Warner. At the end of the day, they pulled the plug. They refused to give Eric a time slot when he offered to buy. Blaming Russo and Bischoff’s creative choices, Hogan’s politics, etc is deep and interesting. Unfortunately, the real answer is just boring, corporate America

@Sting283

4 ай бұрын

Guaranteed contracts no matter what. Spending like crazy. It was a ship with no captain

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

This and I still think giving Hogan that much creative control, when he also has the biggest ego (dude no one cares you lost to yjr Warrior at WM, we didn’t need that only works in thr WWF, Warrior in wCW

@chrischar9428

4 ай бұрын

​@@Sting283guaranteed contracts eh...thanks Bill watts

@MaximumCarnage5150

2 ай бұрын

You can blame AOL all you want, but that doesn't explain any of the issues leading up. Loss of viewership, loss of money, etc. It was dying/dead and lingering before AOL

@charlottestreet3301

Ай бұрын

​@@MaximumCarnage5150 and having a free PPV

These video series are amazing. Keep up the great work

This was such an interesting deep dive and see what I missed during the Monday night wars. My cousins got me intro wwf back in the late 90s but I had 0 knowledge about wcw.

I support wrestletalk

Jamie Kellner is actually a wrestling fan, it was the longtime Turner Executives who hated wrestling

This was actually a really well put together video and it explained so much.

WCW's demise was like the 3rd ending to Clue; they all did it but Turner murdered WCW in the hall with the revolver...

I just remember getting fed up with WCW and stopped watching. Every week each episode of TV seemed to end the same: a big match was announced, you look forward to it, then when its finally time it ends with the big chaotic WCW ending... and for a while there I was OK with that because you kind of understood they wanted to save the big finish for the next PPV. But then these chaotic endings with everybody running in to the ring and garbage flying and all that started happening at the PPVs as well and it just got to "Why am I paying $50 for this PPV if its not going to finish any stories?" and then "Why am I watching Nitro if its not going to finish any stories or lead to a finish on the PPV?"

@dodesskiy1

4 ай бұрын

I think you're describing Russo's way of looking at it all. Cornette hated him for it in the WWF. Russo didn't care about wins, losses, belts, DQs. He wrote TV shows. And he wanted that shock value. I've recently decided to watch one show from 1999 when I stopped watching. Man oh man. It was a train wreck. BTW they wanted less offensive kid friendly TV and they hired Russo? I bet you they never watched any pro wrestling period.

@Sting283

4 ай бұрын

​@dodesskiy1 Except it was happening in 96. Russo wasn't in charge of writing at WWF in 96. WCW started being repetitive before whatever you're trying to say. He's right. It got to the point where the NWO is coming out. Here comes 3/4 of the locker room. Just no direction

@carlosnn8150

3 ай бұрын

All good, but NWA Power and AEW are bores. It can't be all crash tv, but it can't be all Cornette-fanboy wrasslin either.

@daviddalrymple2284

2 ай бұрын

Yeah. Those "flying garbage moments" were exciting for a while, but it got old after 2-3 years of the nWo just winning everything. And then when the nWo red/white split happened, it became a tedious stalemate. They had booked themselves into a corner, because they couldn't afford to let Nash or Hogan look weak. And speaking of booking themselves into a corner, you had Goldberg's winning streak. By the end of 1998, Goldberg had already squashed 90% of the roster. Nash was the most credible challenger left. I think that something like the screwy finish to Starrcade 98 was inevitable. I was actually cautiously optimistic about "The Fingerpoke of Doom", since I had grown so tired of the Hollywood/Wolfpac feud not going anywhere. It seemed like, maybe, the nWo reunification would be the first step toward the dissolution of the nWo. (I was right, in retrospect, but not in the way I expected.) Then, maybe, WCW would turn it around and give us something fresh. Instead, it was more of the same nonsense. And Jericho leaving was the final straw for me.

I don't think WCW was too far gone to save. Look at how TNA turned itself around, look at how NJPW recovered from Inokyism. Given a chage of philosophy it could have been restored. The Time Warner executives killed WCW.

Awesome vid guys, really enjoying these types of videos.

I got a papa johns pizza ad at the first ad break lol great work again

Officer Barbrady?

@AndreNDP

4 ай бұрын

The 1998 Denver Broncos?

@nexusgiga

4 ай бұрын

Maggie Simpson

actually the referee said on Chris van Vliet that Sting said to count fast and Hogan said to count slow so he just went down the middle and did a normal count. So he I think he didn't wanto decide between them. But really it just shows the division in the roster and unnecessary power struggles in the back.

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

It shows this was such a bad idea… Hogan had been the biggest chicken bleep heel, never defending belt, talking for 20 Mins (19 mins too long), and just being a total coward, until that match and he turned into monster heel and made Sting look bad… man I wish Eric had just had more faith in Foley and Austin and kept them and never brought HoganC unless he has limited creative control and he does what the booking says for PPV

@1980Triumph

4 ай бұрын

A bunch of dudes on the net whining about a slow/fast count.....who cares??? Does a count have anything to do with the closing of the company?

More videos like this please! Love the essay style videos

Road Wild wasn’t the only PPV where the live crowd was let in free. 1995’s Bash at the Beach was held on a public beach and the crowd was let in free too. I was there. If you have Peacock or the WWE Network, I’m the goof in the ugly military glasses and silly purple tiger stripe hat that was cheering on Harlem Heat at about an hour and six minutes in, so I know this was a free event for the crowd. 2024 me wonders how much money in production costs was lost because it was free to us, unless of course the filming of an episode of Baywatch and merch sales made up for some of that cost

As someone who grew up watching WCW, the merger was the beginning of the end and then management who were basically the voice of higher ups who had no idea what they were doing. Shame WCW was amazing!

Batman Beyond catching strays for no reason

We need more "documentaries" like these please. I know they are a lot of work but they are awesome!

Dang it Luke! You turned this into one of my wife’s shows where “we may never know”…thank you for bringing this type of content back!

Please do The Rise, Fall and Rise again of TNA🙏🏾

@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb

4 ай бұрын

Wasnt russo in charge of that for a while ?

Lol Moms were put on poles! I actually just watched that Buff Bagwell Darkside of the Ring 😂

This was perfect for the kind of KZread video I was searching for this morning. I’m always down for a wrestletalk docuvideo like this, the recent ones like this have been awesome. Go check out more of their channel if you haven’t already.

I love Luke in these kind of formats. Give me like narrating over wrestling history all day everyday.

After this video, WCW kinda looks like the Organization version of Cesar

Warning signs for AEW NOT TO FOLLOW. great video guys. In the wake of the big contracts of okada, mone and ospreay, we're starting to see the checklist ticked one by one. Lets see if AEW can keep the tv deal.

I loved every bit of this. Can I have more? Thank you in advance.

These videos are fantastic. I'm sure there are more planned. But if they get around to it, it'd be great to get one on Kurt Angle's career. Starting with his time in the Olympics. Regardless, I'm watching any topic they put out in this format.

I still remember as a little kid when Bobby Hennen revealed the big gold belt on a Saturday morning wrestling show. As a wrestling fan, it ranks as in top 3 mark out moments in my life.

@glennross85

4 ай бұрын

I knew WWF was fake but knew about real wrestling in the Olympics. I didnt know wcw e isted and when Flair showed up and they were calling him the real world champ my 6 year old brain thought this meant that Flair was the legit shoot wrestling world champ 😅

I feel like Vince Russo drove WCW into the abandoned ally where Time-Warner assassinated it.

Pieces like this are when Wrestletalk is at its best. May have went a tad off topic in the beginning but I loved the history lesson.

You convinced me that it was Bischoff because he couldn’t reign in Hogan. I remember feeling this at the time, too. Speaking personally, I bailed on WCW when Jericho did.

Please be kind in the comments!

WCW shouldve did what WWF eventually did when HBK lost to Austin at 98 Mania. The next night on Raw HHH took over DX Nash shouldve took over the NWO after Hogan lost to Sting. Nash shouldve said Hogan dropped the ball but now I have picked it up and then introduced a brand new member. A big reveal

@PhillysOkayestDad

4 ай бұрын

A big reveal of their newest member… …AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENA!!!!

@nexusgiga

4 ай бұрын

​@@PhillysOkayestDadthe worse part is that Cena was in the power plant which means he could have been nwo

@Sting283

4 ай бұрын

This only happened because of drugs and a back injury though

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

This is how I book Starcade 97, Hall and Nash start to get annoyed always helping hogan but not get any of the credit, finally they tell Hogan he is on his own, Sting squashes Hogan, Hall and Nash kick Hogan out and now Hogan can do his face run … or the NwO dies and w have the wolf pac , with limited matches

@GAURAV25855ify

3 ай бұрын

True but eventually around that same year around April mayish there was THE NWO SPLIT

Love these videos. Keep them going.

The idea that Bischoff didn't have a hand in the demise is ludicrous. Bischoff 's arrogance and short sightedness was a long term disaster.

It was Bill Watts after Jim Herd got fired then Eric Bischoff.

@davidsalvador4247

4 ай бұрын

I believe there was one more person between Jim herd and bill watts.

@Dj0287

4 ай бұрын

@@davidsalvador4247 Kip Frye

@ajk

4 ай бұрын

Yeah Eric was an on camera guy strictly at first.

i bet it was jeff jarrett. he broke 6000 guitars, never drew a dime. those must have been expensive! lol.

@sampleoffers1978

4 ай бұрын

Guitars were write offs he was unsung financial franchise

My view is it was all of them, they all had a hand in its demise, Hogan, Bischoff, Russo, Kellner, all of them

Great series I generally agree with the thesis bad deals prevented any value contracts. Almost any positive growth would lead directly to a rise in expenses

Hulk Hogan is a known liar Starcade 1997 he probably didn’t want to put Sting over without actually saying it

Mankind is gonna win the WWF Championship

@user-fc3ki3gb7u

Ай бұрын

Boring!!!!!

Excellent product, as always.

This was a fantastic video. Favorite quote: " Hope there isn't a bubble."

VINCE RUSSO

"Hogan had a shelf life" LOL then Hogan shows up to WWF and blows the roof off the building at WrestleMania and gets another world title run and the fans loved it.

@JarrenBlake

4 ай бұрын

Which is all short lived. Proceeds to TNA and well yeah....There needed to be long breaks at the very least between runs and some new angle each time otherwise it all became stale quickly.

@ShawnReed-ny1hd

3 ай бұрын

Didn't hurt he was facing The Rock

@user-fc3ki3gb7u

Ай бұрын

Hogan sucks

Haloween Havoc 98 was the beginning of the end. They had to show the main event that people PAID to see on Nitro. EVERYTHING after that just snowballed from there

@andu1854

4 ай бұрын

I think DDP should have won title and then build for Starcade 97 (where Goldberg wins title back after figuring out how to avoid Diamond cutter)

Great video. Very good stuff for the weekend.