Which Knife Defense Program Is The Best? | EWO vs. KCC vs. EOR
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@washingtoncommandcenter5541
Жыл бұрын
Man..... Did you not only kick the knife out of his hand... but then into what would have been his NECK had he not been wearing a helmet? that's something you would see in a movie and call B.S.
@ambulocetusnatans
Жыл бұрын
I have a small business, and driving that far would add a couple of extra days to the trip, and flying is too expensive at the moment. Do you have any friends closer to Chicago?
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
@Ambulocetus they all travel and teach in multiple cities... so hopefully they end up near you.
@purebloodheretic4682
Жыл бұрын
W.E.Fairbairn was the OG of Knife 🔪 Defence! & Developed the 'Defendu' Program for the British Military! He even Co Designed the 'Sykes Fairbairn'🗡️ Knife issued to OSS & Commandos! These are Very Old - but Proven techniques that do Save Lives!! He coined the term "Gutter Fighting" for his 'Anything Goes' No Rules survival Fighting & Defence system! I'd Highly recommend his books! to Anyone for Practical Self Defence! - Cheers👍
@elliotsotovazquez1667
Жыл бұрын
Greeting!! I saw a few days back your video about pistol crossbow for defence, love it. If there is a opportunity look for the Vlad Impaler Ek Archery Crossbow, you will love that crossbow.
“And… and… I kicked a knife out of someone’s hand.” 😂
@999jay999
Жыл бұрын
SenseiSeth enters chat....
@aaftiyoDkcdicurak
Жыл бұрын
I prefer to wave my hands around producing kanjis in thin air and then teleport 20ft behind my enemy's holding their heart.
@renier4415
Жыл бұрын
He kicked the knife out of his opponent hand and into his opponents head. Crazy
@steviek1980
Жыл бұрын
BADASS!
@edi9892
Жыл бұрын
And I stomped down on a spear! I just wish, I could do such BS reliably. LOL
When we do it at our place we go full wrestling with training knives, basically BJJ and wrestling with knife attacks. It's basically a form of sparring and you realize how hard it is not getting cut and stabbed, but you also learn what can work and what doesn't, how to possible control the attackers bodies while also keeping your focus on their weapon. It's very difficult, but I feel it's good training. You also understand how much fitness really makes a difference, like with any fighting.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
That's a quick way to sort out what works.
@frontenac5083
Жыл бұрын
@Remix God LOOOOOOOOOL!!!! 🤦🤦♂🤦♀
@Traceur172
Жыл бұрын
@@frontenac5083 kinda hard to stab someone when you can't see
@lilnibba2905
Жыл бұрын
@remixgod4496 just buy gun
@brandondb6190
11 ай бұрын
@remixgod4496yeah no doubt, fuck all this knife vs unarmed jazz. Once someone pulls a weapon, either pull yours, find one extremely close or run for your life.
The three things I learned from combative edge classes I took: 1.knife fighting sucks. The training is hard and in the end there may not be no clear winners 2. Wresting is the way especially when it comes to controlling that weapon bearing arm 3. Situational awareness is more important than skill.
@magnusryder
Жыл бұрын
Knife fight/grappling is as tiring as basically every grappling martial arts that exists, it's taxing on the body and the mind
@BogalaSawundiris
Жыл бұрын
I think Shuai Jiao, Judo, Tai Shou practitioners have a high survivability in a knife fight
@BillyBobThorton777
Жыл бұрын
@Oodles of Noodles ehh idk about you but I wanna stay on my feet if we're outside on concrete. Too much unpredictable shit could happens even moreso than on two feet IMO
@Shacksies
11 ай бұрын
@@BillyBobThorton777Wrestlers are better at staying on their feet than anyone else, until they want it to go to the ground. If you don't want to be on the ground in a street fight, you should learn wrestling. It's how you learn takedown defense.
@MNTrader2012
7 ай бұрын
@@Shacksies Just easy target for sewing
Amazing courses. Also had the privilege of taking all of these courses over the past year and I would definitely agree with you. I know we have discussed these courses a lot, and they are all great for their own reasons. Regardless, if you are serious about learning self defense and more importantly knife defense, go take these courses. Big reality check. Plenty to learn from these courses as well as the instructors themselves.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Oh you've taken these courses?
@staysafemartialarts
Жыл бұрын
@@hard2hurt yes i had the super short hair that you didn’t care for :)
@ananda_miaoyin
Жыл бұрын
@@hard2hurt Looks interesting and maybe will check out if offered in my area (Northern Cali) but I will be very honest here. I have no illusions about "getting the knife" and wrestling out of it. I will either mag dump the guy or if I do not have a jammie on me, I will evade until I find a brick, bat or a really nice rock. Or...I will run my ass off. Before you say anything about running is bad, I am a trained runner and can outrun most! Thanks for bringing this awesome course to my attention and I love your channel. I am not a young man and have seen my share of "Bullshido" and you are as legit as it comes.
I don't know how many compliments you get on your composition and writing, but that was a killer intro. There's not a chance I'm not watching this whole video after that. Fishhooked like a sprat
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Not many... but thank you! Also, the quote is "fishhooked _by_ a sprat" lol.
@kravvormagagor9595
Жыл бұрын
@@hard2hurt indeed it is. You kinda remind me of the mighty McGroin or whatever his name was a little bit. Could pull it off in costume anyways.
That knife kick was straight up what Gabriel Varga taught you. I saw the sparring footage. When you two broke the clinch he was throwing head kicks. You downloaded that and started doing it to knife-wielders. Well done, sir.
@BogalaSawundiris
Жыл бұрын
Excellent read
I'd give my left gonad to take any of the 3 courses discussed in this video. I know that sounds insane, but I'd rather give it freely than lose it in a knife fight because I had no idea how to defend myself against a knife wielding psycho. Also, I have 3 sons, so I don't really need both of 'em anymore.
@malkomalkavian
Жыл бұрын
You're allowed to trade them for stuff once you're done with them?
@yamiyomizuki
Жыл бұрын
@@malkomalkavian not legally
@drummachine5787
Жыл бұрын
@@yamiyomizukiain’t this a free market? I can sell one of my nuts if I want to!
@allosaurusfragilis7782
Жыл бұрын
@@malkomalkavian...you didn't know this? I traded mine in for an audi...
@tommyvercetti7326
Жыл бұрын
@@allosaurusfragilis7782 A8?
I’ve done 1/3 of the courses in the video (basically just KCC), but from footage of both Craig’s and Ryan’s material, I can firmly recommend all of them. Very few programs can be so realistic without being edgy, and these are the best courses for using functional combat sports skills in a weapons based environment. Great video!
Excellent comparison and contrasting of these courses, and awesome assessment from someone actually experiencing these and applying the training under intense pressure.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Intense is right.
That knife kick was pretty sweet. Great video!
Great video, and excellent lessons learned! The first time I had a little bit "fun with knives" with a friend in my backyard was an eye-opener. We went the dueling route - we used sheathed knives (the blades were a bit dull, too, so we didn't have to worry about the knife poking through the sheath) and went at 20-30% sparring intensity (no face stabbing). I had almost zero wrestling experience and some striking and knife-swinging practice, and the friend had zero martial art experience. The lessons: 1. After a swing or two, it devolved into wrestling with knives. 2. In just about 15-20 minutes (with some breaks), we were both successfully closing in and clinching up without too much damage. 3. My size and skill advantage mattered little at the cutting range and much more at the clinch. 4. Taking the initiative and violence of action had a bigger influence on the outcome than anything else. A similarly short and playful session or two with my little brother as an attacker (some short rolled up/taped up notebook as a stabbing implement) and me unarmed defending taught me: 1. Shelling up like a boxer helped me survive the first couple of stabs (hit in the forearms) and allowed me to clinch. 2. My lack of wrestling skills became obvious, and it was difficult to control the opponent. 3. The attacker was fixated on the shank and stabbing and left openings for clinching/striking. 4. Slamming him to the ground seemed like a much more effective option than trying to strike and control (we went light with trips and lifts, no actual slamming happened). 5. His lack of proper aggression (out of respect/fear of pissing off his bigger brother) made it easier than sparring with my friend , but I was still getting stabbed a bunch. In just a couple of short casual sparring sessions, with no expert coach and me going off of "Folsom Prison Knife Techniques" and some stories about how knife attacks happen, it became apparent that good wrestling fundamentals (Judo came to mind back then because it was more common where I live) executed with relentless aggressive intent were the key to surviving (or killing the dude you just assaulted, from the attacker's perspective). Since then, I always wondered why most online knife defense guys/gals had never taken 5 minutes to see how an actual assault would really go down and learn from it.
You put out a video last year, I think, and It was a small blade that another fellow may have designed and It showed him block your arms with his left arm and go for the right side of the groin twist and pulled up, and I'll never forget how devastating that would be, THX for posting. 👍
Great video, really appreciate all the work you clearly put into doing this.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Yeah... it was a rough process making this one. Thank you!
AWESOME VIDEO! You are right! It's really about your personality, fighting style, experience as far as who is the best teacher for you!
Mike you're my go to for realistic self defense concepts love your videos man
Basically all courses are awesome! great vid as usual
One of the things that I can't get out of my head about martial arts of any sort is the selection bias. You're sort of training to fight against other martial artists, but most of the time in real life you're not doing that. Then again, I guess that does give us something to do after the first couple weeks.
Thanks for this super informative and most helpful video. Your vids always bring practicality and common sense to personal defense.
Everything you say about knives makes me feel good about what my MA friends and I have been discovering for decades. I started in judo when I was ten and was always looking for self defense applications in everything I could study. Wrestling, karate, Kung Fu, FMA’s, at their core, are all grappling. When you introduce a knife into the fight, it,by necessity starts a grappling match. So my fellow students and I,through the years, always got the knives out in our free time. I’m glad that through all of the hard work that we put in, we developed skills that I see in all of the courses you’ve presented. Some kind of parallel evolution, after all,we’re all essentially the same. Thanks for your great work and be safe
Great insight, appreciate the shout out and the hard work.🔥🔥🔥
There's a particular tactic I learned very quickly when doing active resistance sparring with knife defense, which is the hand transition. You lock up on the knife hand and start trying to control it, they just snatch the knife with their other hand and go to town since you're now open. I noticed that the defender was particularly vulnerable to this tactic when wrestling. In my (admittedly limited) experience, no knife defense could be considered feasible or practical if you couldn't overcome this tactic. Did any of these three classes address this?
@ehisey
Жыл бұрын
That is part of the whole edge control. isolate and prevent them form making the transtion. you can see it being done in the clips.
@bayyinahawesome415
Жыл бұрын
Mike's done a video on Kevin's channel mentioning a person who studied 170 knife attacks and transitions like those never happened in the heat of the moment.
My AG1 came in yesterday, worth it for sure
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Gamechanger!
Thanks for the reviews, super informative.
Very Informative video, thank you for sharing!
Good stuff man I’ll have to sign up for some of these to have them come out
This was a really great video, your best yet
Mike..ur channel has always been one of my favs.❤
I love what you do. Very needed.
Great video. Just did the Kcc instructor online program. Hope i also can work with Craig in the future
Bet that kick felt good when the knife flew out of the hand during the Australian championship. It’s always good to have room to run when facing knives, but also good to have grappling in the pocket if need be. Both are great
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
I didn't actually realize it. I thought it was all dome.
@hayow2624
Жыл бұрын
Make way for Sensei Mike. Sumo when?
Excellent video with a plethora of info. We will check it them out and train.
Bro! Good stuff man and absolutely agree! These 3 groups are where people need to be to improve their knife Defense skills. Solid review!!!!
I replayed that knife kick scene so many times lol its like the chefs kiss finisher to that challenge 🤣
"3 butt-scooting grabby-boys" I'm rolling 🤣🤣🤣
I've taken EWO twice, and taken the regular level and instructors level KCC. I haven't done EOR, but I've attended HR6, and my first EWO was at Charlotte, so I'm familiar with Ryan's team. I agree 100% with your assessment. I'd also highly recommend the KCC instructor program.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Since you've done the others, you will really love EOR. It will feel like going to an amusement park!
That reveal in the end that you kicked a knife out of someone's hand is a plot twist worthy of M Night Shamalyan
For me the problem always was the skill level difference needet to be succefull in a knife defence. When the knife guy has just a little experince in knifefighting you need to be so much better to have a chance, it's a lifteime of training vs a weekend of training and bad intensions.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Yes. The knife is serious modifier. You could be a guy who could easily handle most dudes and the knife changes the equation by a lot.
@mrx2586
10 ай бұрын
@@hard2hurt If I tried to defend myself against the sort of person who can "handle most dudes" I cant imagine a knife doing me any good at all let alone being a serious modifier. Frankly if I was being attacked by such a person and all I had was a knife I would give up immediately and make absolutely no attempt to fight at all because as far as I am concerned there is absolutely nothing I can do. If possible i would dispose of the knife so it cant be used against me and if this was not possible i would give him the knife in the hope that it appeases him.
Si, great content as always!
Mike, fantastic video!!
Cool video, I wish I could've seen some of the techniques, but I understand why...😊
I see some of my coaches in your video from KCC and EOR and they take what they learned and teach us.
FMA is legit in this. I attacked a FMA instructor (with 7 years experience) with rubber knife, freestyle and wildly, and he blocked everything. He was so skilled that I couldn't "cut" even his hands which were blocking my knife hand.
@Happy-go-luckyTV
5 ай бұрын
Of course it is... thousands of reps against a knife vs your typical "mcdojo". Better BJJ wins. Better boxer wins. Better fma wins. Knife > than trained fighter. It's been tested countless times. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Don't bring fists to a knife fight.
@MasakanSolaris
4 ай бұрын
@@Happy-go-luckyTVok....I'll bring chainmail to the knife fight see how you like that.
Thanks for sharing Sir! Would be amazing to train as you do, expanding your knowledge and experience always 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼💪
No discussion about knife defense and knife fighting is complete without investigating the deThouars Kuntao Silat Serak. There were 4 brothers. Three of them have passed in recent years. However Willem is still alive, and has a solid group in Colorado, and his youngest brother Victors school, the VDT Academy, is still going strong under his senior student/instructor.
Great stuff!
That kick was badass Mike!!!!
Thank you for reviewing those knife defense courses.
in my experience focusing on the knife hand and controlling it and then them as a whole served me better than focusing on attacking the person. Striking them as soon as control has been attained...yes for sure.
Nice! My little red rubber knife made it into the first Eli clip!
At our school, we did a knife seminar where we used red markers. Three minute sparring matches, both people with red markers. The least marked competitor stayed “alive” and sparred the next fresh opponent until they “died.” No one left unmarked. Every student left with lethal marks. We all learned the lesson. Make lethal strikes first, then move out of range. And whenever possible, carry a badder weapon at range. The other lesson we learned is to carry a knife on each side, so a trapped arm doesn’t make you helpless while being stabbed. Everyone who attended the course now understands the advantages of two knives, a walking stick, and a gun.
This is the best video you have done
We used training knives in the gym today, I learned how to escape the off arm's grasp and only get stabbed a few times before running away. How the hell can people actually successfully do anything else?
First you learn, then u teach. Teaching is part of the mastery I've come to learn.
Thumbs up on the kick and everything else actually Thanks for the info
I did like that Ramsey Dewey successfully used a Hapkido lock I've learned for knife defense in the USDC pretty cool
Slow clap for that smug ending. That was pretty cool.
Good stuff!
Excellent video, thank you for sharing these reviews and analyses How well did the t-shirts hold up to being grabbed? We grapple with street clothes sometimes at my gym, and I've only seen one shirt (a dress shirt) tear apart. T-shirts seem to get stretched out more than they come apart in your hands.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
They stretched, but never so badly that they stopped being useful
great video
Ironic that it was you and not Sensei Seth who did the kicking the knife out of the hand. Amazing stuff.
Did they immediately stop the Self Defense Championship and give you the trophy after the knife kick? They really should have. You should hang a big screen in your gym's lobby that just shows that on a loop and when someone comes in inquiring about training just point to it and say "cash, check, or credit?" Seriously though, this was a very thoughtful contrasting of the courses. My knife defense experience has come from a kali, wing chun, military combatives base (I think it most resembles EOR of the three) , but I have pressure tested and it seems to go fairly well. I would really enjoy any of these courses I think. I may try to get down to Fit to Fight next time I'm in NC.
I agree with your final conclusion, because it is principle based and that is what all my training is based on, the knife is not the problem the brain of the attacker is the problem. I never focus on any kind of defense, you cannot win on defense, my focus is on decommissioning the attacker as fast and as violently as possible, you have a much better chance of surviving a cut than the attacker has of surviving a crushed wind pipe.
two best thing i learnt in deal with knives is 1)it not the knife that kills you it the person with the knife and the best way to survive an account it try and take out the guy with the blade and the second one 2) better to do what they want unless they give you reason to believe they will stab you any way or you can't live with what they want you to do.
One thing that most people overlook is that you are most likely going to get cut and through the adrenaline you have to focus and get mean and nasty without any hesitancy because if you don't then you are dead. ** A good friend of mine fought off a suprise attack and was stabbed 9 times before he disarmed his attacker and had punctured his lungs and almost bleed out before he could get to the hospital. Even in the Marines we needed more knife fighting skills because its usually tought as a last defense. God bless you and thank you for your info.
This is the video I have been waiting for someone to make for the longest time So the big question, what are the biggest take aways? Grab the knife arm first? Clinch up and use clinch attacks? Just start throwing punches? What key things should a person spend the most reps on if we were going to tack something onto the end of regular training?
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Currently working on that
@driver3899
Жыл бұрын
@@hard2hurt Yesssss. I was really hoping you were going to say that! Would be super keen to see you do some kind of weapon control course too, I feel like you have a lot to contribute to this space
@midguard7917
Жыл бұрын
Great question. Also my biggest question after seeing many knife attacks, which is can you actually get inside and control someone's knife arm if they are aggressively moving and stabbing with intent to kill you? Most knife attacks have the defender attempting something like this, and if they lose control of that arm, they will be stabbed repeatedly usually in the head, neck, shoulder, or torso faster than they can possibly try and regain control of the arm. It would be great for you to do a rundown/basics video Mike (without spoiling these great courses.)
Mike, it would be cool if you made a video discussing SOCP, Special Operations Combatives Program, as they have a good bit of weapon defense tactics. You're not far from some special people.
I love you Mike!
That kick at the end was sick
Hey Mike, what is your opinion on knife proof clothing 🤔
Would be cool to see you work with or try ISR-Matrix or Kelly McCann!
Kimura can be awesome tool for this type of self defence. Elli probably has that covered.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
It doesn't materialize much. It can be useful, but if you lose it, you are in a very bad spot (inside the arm with the knife). Outside 2 on 1 is superior because if you lose it or choose to disengage, you are a little safer.
That's pretty cool those little packets and stuff what do they taste like though it looks like spinach green I'm just curious
To bad you didnt go try itay gils knife defense now that would have been super interesting he has a really good system for this. Thank you
Your super video leaves me with a question (maybe a quote from you in an earlier video?). The best defense in a knife/grappling/boxing fight is to avoid it in the first place. So, have the firearm in your hand first, before the fight begins?
@boonkgang1536
Жыл бұрын
Yea but someone can pull a knife way faster than you can pull a gun
Nice finish
I have listened to a few stories about people only having knives against bear. And they were used as piercing weapons more than a slashing weapon. Great tip on clothing. I wonder how I would do in lv 3 ballistics jacket wrestling someone. I have wondered if bear could rip through it.
Rules of knife fighting. 1. Don't get into knife fights! 2. Seriously don't you will die! 3. Learn how to do emergency trauma first aid! Seriously where is that stuff in "self defense"? You can be great at fighting but not knowing how to stop bleeding, perform a Heimlich, administer an epinephrin auto injector, administer Narcan, do CPR, and locate and operate an AED leaves you defenseless. A video about basic first aid gear and where to put an AED in a place like a gym (like yours) would be really good and open up some useful discussion about having AEDs around in public places, especially athletic facilities.
Bro that knife kick was dope af😂😂😂
do video about brain trauma in combat sports and how to minimize the risk pls
I literally laughed out loud, when you put Sensei Seth on blast. Now, everyone at the dialysis center keeps giving me confused looks 🤣
When I was about 15 we had this kid in my town that huffed gas and did crazy shit. One day he was at a park high as shit threatening people with one of those lock blade buck knives and I said I was going to find a phone and call the police (it was the mid 90's so no cell phones) and he heard me and charged at me with the knife. He held the knife in front of his right pectoral and came at me screaming trying to stick it in my chest. I didn't know much about wrestling but I did study boxing so I decided to ignore the knife and I stepped in and landed a right hand straight on his chin. His head snapped back and his knees went to jelly and took a spread eagle nap on his back. I did have a small cut on the back of my left wrist but I wouldn't have known about it if it hadn't been pointed out to me. Like Spicy Mike said at the end, he did better when he focused on stopping the attacker instead of chasing the knife. I never cared much for wrestling and ever since that day at the park I think the best way to deal with most weapons is a bit of footwork and nice tight right cross.
Have you ever done a video mentioning 52 blocks?? Very interested in this communities take on it
"butt-scooting grabbybois" never has a more perfect descriptor been rendered
0:01 I'ma stop you right there Mike. Usain Bolt's running academy is the best program.
Add Ed' OME to the end for a 4th class . It's really deep into using the knife
In a parking lot the best defence is aerosol siren, try to get a vehicle between you and your attacker, if the attacker holds his knife in front of himself he is also afraid and you should be able to back away screaming for help, if the attacker holds his knife behide him he most likely knows how to use it and isn't afraid, RUN screaming and remember he is afraid of moving vehicles!
Your job looks kind of fun.
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
The thing about "fun" jobs is they always look fun from the outside... they don't always feel fun when you're doing it.
@Jay-ho9io
Жыл бұрын
@@hard2hurt I mean yeah, and on the other hand, you wouldn't go back to a department for basically anything would you? I'm not saying you have the easier job, but I believe you know you have the better one. 🏆
I was thinking of taking a class with Craig Douglas in the future.
every training could be good. but here in the provinces of the Philippines where most people are farmers, they learn to cut, chop with their bolo while working in the farms and cutting grasses and woods. The practitioners of bolo or knife fighting will strike banana trunks to practice stabbing and hacking.
Curious how they determine the winner at the self-defense championships in a knife attack bout, since obviously you can't simulate the effect landed stabs would have in reality. So when you don't fixate on the weapon and say gain control of the opponent and submit them or disarm them etc, but also got stabbed multiple times is there some scoring method or analysis process they uses to figure out if you would have "won" or if you would have been dead 60 seconds ago from massive blood loss?
@hard2hurt
Жыл бұрын
Dying _during_ a knife attack is super rare... you can only guess and muse at if you would die afterwards.
I think in a real knife attack you’re going to have to somehow remember to briefly ignore the knife and defeat the leveraging arm first and foremost. Once the leveraging arm is locked in you are dead. I think that correlates to what you said about how you seemed to prevail whenever you ‘forgot’ about the knife and just counterattacked as opposed to purely defending.
That kick was sweet... Nice.. 👌
Seth is proud for the knife kick.
As someone who's had a knife put to my throat I appreciate this analysis
Butt-scootin' Grabby Boys is my new favorite term for BJJ guys.
"its all about training thousands of reps" this, is by far the most important thing in any martial art. i trained in combative aikido. meaning, aikido vs resisting opponents. for 3 years. it taught me a few very important things. 1. awareness. MMA doesnt teach you to look out for weapons, blind sports, or potential bad scenarios and how to get out of them. 2. REPETITION. six hours a day for six months was spent not being allowed to traditionally strike. but i was defending against them. this was mainly foot work, positioning, feinting, biding time, and developing endurance. 3. your not pulling off any of those moves in most situations, nore should you even try. but learning to take advantage of those opportunity when they arise was the big lesson. 4. the knife defense. everything mentioned above are all things you would learn from these classes also. yeah, aikido in most cases is bullshit. but if you do some research, read some books. study diagrams. but if you take the time to practice all the other stuff it teaches its a very solid martial art.
Would like to have seen Michael Janich and MDV techniques
Have you ever thought to go to ed calderon class? Would be amazing to see what you think of it.
A guy pulled a knife on me out of nowhere while passing me. He stopped the knife one inch from my heart. It happened so fast I had no time to react. He was able to access my torso easily because I didn't see it coming. He just walked away after this. It was the most dishonorable thing I've ever seen. Rogue like in every sense of the word. What would you have done?