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When making pizza, it is essential that the last fermentation occurs at room temperature and the dough should be removed from the fridge at least 5 hours before stretching and baking, otherwise the gluten would just be too tight and cold to witness your stretch and it's going to snap back as your try to extend it. For any other type of bread I'm all for cold fermentation.

@SteveSpekk

Жыл бұрын

I agree! Although I do a combo of both. About 70% hydration and like less than a tsp yeast. couple slap and folds then leave in the fridge with incremental coil folds ( about 3-4 hrs increments) After like 12 hours I let it sit anywhere from 3-6 hours room temp. Never over ferments and is very light/crispy!

@TheDuckofDoom.

Жыл бұрын

Pizza can be cold fermented in a basic pizza shape. That is how we did it at a restaurant I worked at long ago. Stacks of flat dough separated by wax paper in the refrigerator. Used directly from the refrigerator with only a minor stretch and time for topping befor baking.

@magistral5732

Жыл бұрын

@wolfedog99 that may work for NY style or sheet pan pizza but I was referring to Neapolitan pizza which is the kind I like the most and I make more often.

I bought a 100 gram (Max) scale only to weigh yeast, salt, sugar and baking powder. Before buying that, it was very difficult to accurately measure very tiny amounts. It has an accuracy of ±0.05 grams. It can even weigh a single staple!

@mateusfccp

Жыл бұрын

I am still looking for a good scale for homebaking. I have one similar to Charlie's, but mine does not revert to zero haha. Sometimes it simply does not update the value, then I press it with my finger or remove and put the bowl again and it will properly update. I am not sure, however, how precise is it anyway.

@fransvandewiel4842

Жыл бұрын

I have the same and use it for salt and yeast weighing. They call them jeweler scales. Not expensive, but for sure more accurate than 3 kg scales. Another way is weighing 1 or 2 gram and divide it in equal parts, use only one of the parts.

@ritualchaos7182

Жыл бұрын

Yes! I bought jewellers scales for... well... weighing silver etc. and ended up using them more for cooking.

@JohnPMiller

Жыл бұрын

In Colorado, it's easy to find small, accurate scales, because people use them to measure "herbs". They're very practical for measuring yeast, salt, coffee, etc.

@Mormielo

Жыл бұрын

I got a drug dealer scale too. Since I often do three days CF of small batches of dough (4 pizzas) i often use very small amounts of yeast.

First comment just want to say this guy rocks.

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

Cheers, Mike! 😎

@Jeepy2-LoveToBake

Жыл бұрын

I agree - wholeheartedly!!!

I prefer cold fermenting in the fridge, because it gives me a wide time span for baking: I prepare the dough every Wednesday and bake on the following Friday, Saturday or Sunday, always with great results.

A proofing box could really even the playing field here in terms of predictability! I built a cheap one for my home baking with a styrofoam cooler box, seedling mat and a temperature controller, and it stays the same temp all seasons, really really useful!

@kevinu.k.7042

Жыл бұрын

Spot on = I do the same - I reckon it is a major aid in getting reliable and repeatable results. Essential for those doing test bakes like myself. 👍

@mhouslay7281

Жыл бұрын

Great idea - thanks.

for easy weighing of salt, yeast and other small amount ingredients, I bought jewelry scales, now weighing them is super easy

Those small amounts to weigh is why i got one of those "jewelers" scales that measure to 0.01 gr. Very practical for the small amounts of yeast and salt i usually need.

The cold bulk fermentation is great for me. In addition to adding great flavor, I'm not locked into a specific time frame. I have a back injury and don't know how much I'm going to be able to do in advance. If I put a batch of dough in the fridge and can hardly move the next morning, it's good to know that another day won't lead to ruin!

When using a low cost electronic balance. Remove the bowl while adding or removing yeast. Be sure the temperature is even, the electric piles have good charge [ low power can cause erratic error ], and stay several meters away from any electric devices.[ microwave ovens are the worst, but internet routers, electric motors, and cell phones can all add electronic noise ] Also helpful is dilution. Measure a large acurate to measure amount like 5g of yeast and 45g of sugar or flour [total = 50g], mix them thoroughly and now 3g of mixture will contain 0.3g of yeast. The problem is that many low cost designs use a small amount of averaging or rounding to stabilize the signal and display, and this averaging will wash away small and slow changes in actual mass. Removing the bowl while adding or removing prevents this rounding problem and greatly improves repeatability. Expensive labrotory balances are stabilized with additional internal precision and noise filters, but at 10 times the price. Even with no averaging, another problem with a digital balance at the low end of the display, is that you do not know how much hysteresis the design uses for the last digit.[ labrotory balance manufacturers will provide this information ] Hysteresis acts like a buffer. Using the display resolution of your balance of 0.1g as the example and measuring an item of true 0.25g. With no hysteresis every air current and bit of electronic noise (from all sorts of natural and artificial radio signals) will make the display flip rapidly between 0.2 and 0.3 ; With a hysteresis of 0.02 the mass-signal must grow beyond 0.26 before the display will change from 0.2 to 0.3, and a falling mass-signal must drop below 0.24 to change from 0.3 to 0.2. So, if the display is 0.2 the true mass can be anywhere between 0.14 and 0.26, and this would be acceptable for baking. However, many balances with poor noise filtering may set hysteresis much higher, like 0.09, in which case a display of 0.2 could be any true mass between 0.11 and 0.29 depending on wether it was growing or falling. Which is a 260% variation from end to end, or a range of 55% to 145% of indicated.

Your videos are just the best, I can't wait to try a long cold fermentation on my next batch of bread

Interesting outcome. Based on your results, I would use the room temperature method when I am running low on yeast or the price of yeast increased a substantial amount. Otherwise, yes. Just popping dough in the fridge is much easier.

@mateusfccp

Жыл бұрын

Well, happened to me once that I though I had yeast in home but I had only half of the yeast that I was expecting (I had 2.5g and the recipe required 5g). Just fermenting for longer solved my issue!

@AdrienLegendre

Жыл бұрын

You can put some yeast in warm water at 80° F-90° F (27° C-32° C), add a little sugar, wait a few minutes, and grow all the yeast you will ever need.

A superb test and tutorial. So thorough. :) Yes, I should do my folds whilst chilling the dough for the reasons you give. It seems so much more controlled than my current folds on the work top then chill. _I must remember this!_ So much good info on fermentation here. It would be good to compare sourdough leaven in the same manner. You mentioned bacteria. There aren't usually any LAB's present in a yeasted dough. Though I've read that pasteurised and dried LAB cultures are now being prepared for the commercial bakeries as a shortcut to sourdough baking. The extra flavonoids from the long fermentation are coming from the yeast. And why not? It works for beer 😁 Yes, regarding scales. You demonstrate the issue so well. To weigh in 1/10th's of a gram the scales should really be at least marked in 100th's of a gram. Reading reviews most scales showing tenths really only manage whole grams with any reliable accuracy. So I just switch to teaspoons. _Instant Yeast:_ 1 tsp approx. 3.15g 1/2 tsp approx. 1.6g 1/8 tsp approx. 0.4g ? Rounded 1/8 tsp 0.5g? Great stuff Charlie so very well done as usual. Plenty of nuggets for me too. Thanks and Cheers. 🙂

So glad you made this video. I have been watching your videos for a while and I did have questions on the cold vs room temp fermentation which you answered very well. Thanks very much. You have made me such a good baker :).

I just wanted to say thank you for these videos. They make a difference. Yesterday I was working late, struggling against some misbehaving servers. I've been ill all week and finishing work at 10 pm was the last straw. I gratefully started to wander off to bed when I remembered: I have nothing for breakfast. What do I do? It's 10 pm. Do I go out in the middle of the night in February to buy a stale loaf of white bread at the corner store? Or... could I...? I guess your videos are sinking in because I mixed up a dough very similar to the one in this video. I've got an 8 hour cold ferment. I'll quickly knead it up so I can go to bed. I can get up at 6 and just about have enough time to proof and bake it for my regular 7:30 breakfast. Not going lie, it wasn't my best loaf. The bread was right out of the oven when I sat down, but my goodness it certainly beat stale super market bread and a freezing cold walk in the middle of the night! I never would have considered this before I started watching this channel. It doesn't even make sense :-) But it made my whole day today. Got up with a smile on my face and did my best for the rest of the day.

You're videos are very helpful. They save me a lot of time because you do experiments that answer questions I have. Sometimes I do the experiment myself IF i can't find someone online that has already done it (or if it's very specific to a variable in one of my particular recipes).

Great instructional video on bread making yet again. I haven’t tried proofing in the fridge, as I am normally keen to do my bread making in one day but I must try this method. Thank you for posting Charlie. 😀👍☘️

Another super interesting video - I really enjoy these comparison videos. Always a great day when your videos come out!

Another great one. I learn so much from your videos!

Great video thanks. I now always try to do Cold fermentation as I really notice a big difference in smell and a significant improvement in taste and texture. I particularly like doing cold fermentation for pizza dough using both initial Poolish and main bulk fermentation in the fridge and then the final fermentation at around 20C. Love your helpful videos. Thanks very much indeed.

I really enjoy your video presentation - they are clear, informative and methodical. I've done room temperature fermentation but not in the fridge so I can't compare (at least not yet). The first time I came across no knead bread was about 4 years ago and I was amazed how well it works. I'm from an 'era' when we were told you almost had to be brutal to your dough to develop the gluten. No knead dough goes against those 'rules', I guess in part because of the way dry yeast has developed (no such thing available when I first made bread). Thank you for your videos and the fuller written explanations on your website, they are much appreciated (as is your happy smile.) 😊

You're a hero for making these videos. I think i've learned more from watching your videos than hours of googling and reading blogs and forums

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

🙏

Probably the most helpful, and enjoyable, baking channel. Amazing work.

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

Cheers, Ben! ✌️😎

Just found your channel & LOVE IT!

Cold fermenting intimidated me and when I actually tried it, I didn't like the taste. It was too acidic for my taste buds. Through your vids, I discovered that I loved making bread with the preferment. It is soo delicious.

@romystumpy1197

Жыл бұрын

I agree,Im a preferment person, I prefer the taste and texture

I started to bake bread because I thought its cool to make my own. And now I'm becoming a scientist! Interesting video!

What I am going for is consistency and flavor. My first cold ferment was a bust due to a few over ferments. I see this will require more focus. As you stated a cold ferment is practical so it's the method for me. The temperature is steady and gives a more consistent result that is very helpful. Now all I need to do is find that focus😅

Great tutorial as usual

Awesome video. I prefer a combination of both cold for preferment only and room temperature for bulk fermentation and final dough rise. .. I feel what is placed is room temperature, hours are counted double if in refrigerator due to the cold temperature slowing it down if using same measurements. So if bulking 12 hours in room temperature is like 24 hours in refrigerator when using same exact ingredients measurements which works for me. Thanks

@chrisblanc663

3 ай бұрын

He should do that experiment. 12 hour warm, with 24 hour cold. (I know he did something like that, but there were several loaves he was measuring at the same time, I think focusing it on just the one difference between two would be helpful). I can also try it myself…

I have been warm fermenting for years, until you made me try cold fermentation. There is no way back for me now, cold fermentation is my way to go. Thank you

Room temperature fermentation uses less yeast and extends the window which the dough is good. This is useful for making pizza. There are calculators for room temperature and yeast quantity. It is definitely not easy to get it right every time. Cold fermentation has the advantage that you can use the dough over several days which means you can eat pizza whenever you want.

By the end of the video I lost track which was which, like a shell game. Thank you for your many excellent baking videos!

@ChainBaker

2 ай бұрын

They're always in the same place 😉

Hey Charlie, I'm so glad you made this video. It's great as always. I told you that you would be surprised by the results 😄 As you explained, cold fermentation has the upper hand in terms of practicality. Regarding the experiment itself, I think it could have been more accurate if you used a more sensitive scale, like a jewelry scale, to weigh the yeast (which is super critical for room temperature fermentation as you mentioned). Also, for me, the yeast level for a 14h fermentation at 20°C seems high (I'd halve the amount from 0.15% to around 0.07%.). I think these two little tweaks will give the advantage to the room temperature fermented bread, taste and texture wise. It will also be interesting to compare a 6h room temperature fermented dough with a 12h cold fermented dough. Maybe not as an entire video, but just as a personal test. I am sure the results of this will surprise you even more :) Other than that, you have once more proven that this is the best baking channel on KZread!

I'm still playing with the idea of preferment. Been using a poolish mostly, but a biga works well too. Haven't done a cold ferment, just leave them overnight. I, personally can't tell the difference in taste, but I have been told my bread has some pretty good flavor.

I appreciate your very, very clear and scientific style of explaining the usage of preferments! I am German experiencing under Africa's real life conditions with preferments at (our) room temperature (31°C). Because of the fact that electricity is extremely unstable here, I can't use a fridge for cold preferment. With my poolish, I came up with max. 0.025% dry yeast (we don't have other types here) and 15 h optimal (and safe) time. I developed a method to measure this tiny amount of yeast using small syringes from the pharmacy with back calculation from g to ml yeast. I prefer the room temperature fermentation method because it might be a solution for those without access to energy in the "rest" of the world

@Fahnder99

2 ай бұрын

When you use premade iceblocks made at the on-times, you can compensate for the missing stability. the most important part of the fridge is the isolation.

It's always a great day when you upload! =)

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

😍

Ive been cold fermenting overnight and getting great results. (Thanks) But this last week I was wondering about leaving it on the counter overnight. Now I know. Thanks. With such small amounts I'll use a teaspoon or half a teaspoon and forget about exit measurement. Seems to work OK. But taking its temperature is the most useful info you have provided. Thanks again.

Nice comparison video, Charlie... always great info in your submissions. For me, I taste no difference between fridge and room temp, however, I use both methods based on the time I have available. Cold ferment gives me great freedom and no need to panic about over fermentation, whereas room temp is wonderful if you have some lazy times ahead for the day. Did I mention I love bread? 😁

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

😁

Great video, thanks. I wish you had included a third option, though: to leave the dough on the counter until you finished the folding process and then put it in the fridge. That seems to be more convenient and probably reduces the amount of yeast.

Make me so cleared all of them. Thanks

Great video.

I think the difference between cold and warm fermented doughs is more stark with preferments or sourdough involved.

Tip for weighing very little quantities. Tare the scale without the glass, then put the glass, it will show the weigh of the glass, then just add the little amount of yeast and it will give you a more precise result.

My search has been for a method that requires minimal effort while achieving consistent results (because I am lazy). Influenced by your experiments, I have adopted this method: Prepare the dough in the morning and refrigerate it until bedtime. Then I set it out in the kitchen to bulk ferment overnight. By the following morning, the dough is ready for the final steps prior to the last proof. The final proof has typically completed in 1-1.5 hour at an ambient temperature of 60 degrees F. In summer, ambient temperature will be 80 degrees F. I think this change can be dealt with by taking the dough from the fridge to an empty insulated cooler. I think the long fermentation time makes a noticeable improvement in the taste of white bread but the improvement is even more pronounced in whole wheat bread. It could be my imagination at work but I think the bread is a great deal softer as well.

Hi Charlie. An advantage of room-temperature fermentation is that you can use butter or oils that solidify at fridge temperature (like olive oil and avocado oil). If you want fat in a recipe you plan to cold-ferment or cold-proof, you are limited to ones that stay liquid at fridge temperatures (like canola oil).

@ChainBaker

5 ай бұрын

I regularly use butter in cold fermented recipes. Makes no difference at all 👍

@2ukulele

5 ай бұрын

@@ChainBaker Really? That is interesting. I am just making my first cold fermented batch as we speak (thanks to your videos) so have no experience. Thanks for the info!

Old baker here. I learned in the 70s from a Farm Journal 1969 bread book about the "cool rise" method and have baked with great success. But learned most old recipes use way too much commercial yeast. 8 hrs cold final rise, pulling loaves out as preheating oven. Nothing fancy like stones, covers, etc. Now many decades later I simply reduce a lot and find 12/24 hrs gives good result. Of course working in bakery we used bulk retardation then shape and rise in proofing cabinet. I generally make sourdough now with overnight bulk then shape and cold final. With cold final you have less concerns with over proofing.

I found the same problem weighing yeast and salt. I found the perfect method. I keep a bunch of small plastic cups from single serve apple sauce for weighing and I now have three scales. One for weighing large amounts for flour 100g up to 5 kilo. A second scale smaller for weighing 50g to 500g and a small high accurate scale that weighs 0.001g up to 50 grams for yeast and salt. You can get them from Amazon for $20.

궁금증이 같은 베이커들의 의문이 해소되어서 매우 명료해졌어요 공감 할수있는 영상에 감사합니다 thank you for your utube🤍

I was actually able to learn some baking on this video, having at least partially forced myself to focus and not get distracted by our host's mesmerising looks and voice😆🥰🥰👍👍

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

😁

I like using room temperature fermentation for high hydration doughs. Low hydration or enriched dough in the refrigerator

If I may share....you can weigh small amount of yeast or any dry powder by putting any initial weight first to the scale like a small bowl just to set an initial reading, then add the desired weight of the yeast. Been doing this and always gave me more accurate amount... Cold fermentation is always the best.

I like the convenience of cold fermented, but I can see cases where the time factor might make me pick room temperature.

I would say one advantage to the room temperature method is that it is more forgiving with the amount of yeast you use. Since the fridge makes yeast go dormant, you need to make sure the amount of yeast is dialed in for your dough/fridge/etc or else you could easily end up with underproofed or overproofed dough. Whereas with room temperature fermentation you can just leave it for one or two more hours to finish proofing since the yeast grows exponentially. Of course you can take the underproofed fridge dough out of the fridge to finish proofing, but then you lose the advantage of working with cold stiff dough. I would also say that the improved rise and less fridge space are valid reasons to use the room temperature method, especially given that the taste difference is not that significant.

Cold methods I like for consistency. But the knowing the principles of baking, I can choose either method (or a combination) depending on time and how I'm feeling.

My main problem is that I don’t have sufficient space on my fridge, to do cold fermentation, unless it’s a very small loaf. But I don’t bake unless it’s at least 500g of flour.

While there is a slight difference in the mass volume weight between instant dry and active dry yeast, it's not enough to make a material difference in home applications. Using 1/4 teaspoon of either yeast is about 0.8 grams, so for 3 grams of yeast, measuring three level 1/4 teaspoons (3/4 tsp) of yeast will give you about 2.4 grams and measuring a four 1/4 teaspoons (1 full level tsp), will give you about 3.2 grams of yeast. Close enough for the home baker. Using 3.2 grams vs 3 grams isn't going to materially affect the home baker. When needing small amounts of yeast, calculate the grams needed and divide that by 0.8. That will tell you approximately how many 1/4 teaspoons of yeast to use. Round up or down to whole or fractional 1/4 teaspoon measures as you see fit. With that said, a 1/8 teaspoon measure will give you about 0.4 grams per level spoonful.

In culinary school they taught us if you want to measure small amounts of an ingredient you need to measure something else to make the scale more sensitive. For example if you weight the water first then add the yeast without zeroing you will get more accurate results than by weighting the yeast alone. Same for salt. I'm using that tip for baking and it seems to be working. I can't verify if it's true or not though. It might be a good idea for experimenting. Also cold ferments are ideal for warm seasons to have better control over temperature without worrying about water temp, flour temp etc.

@TheDuckofDoom.

Жыл бұрын

For digital electronic scales that particular technique is false. The problem is not one of sensitivity, rather the opposite, it is due to filtering and internal vs display resolution, rounding and buffering(hysteresis).

Weighing trick I learned in Chemistry: Tare, put something that weighs a known amount (5g) and then aim for 5.3g in this case. I also have a very sensitive milligram scale. I use the same trick. It is easier to get a scale to measure from somewhere higher than naught.

I have the same scale, when it's not changing just push on it slightly to read higher and come back down, it kinda refresh it

best dough I made was 60% 00 flour at room temperature overnight, 280g pizza ball with 2.7% salt and 0.5g yeast. It's hard to believe such little yeast yeads such hugh results. I noticed this dough was much more moist inside than the cold fermented dough.

I run a popup pizzeria, and I know you said other than fridge space, but on a commercial level of 100+ doughs on a mobile scene, a fridge is not an option. I use yeast water (40 mL hoenycrisp apple to 800 mL spring water) at 2.5% innoculation, 3% salt, and STRONG flour 14-15% protein w350+. We get a solid 36 hour RT fermentation with that, and it can fight the elements where a temperature change will do less damage. I've always been curious if we subbed actual dry yeast how much that would be. Great video!

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

I need to get into yeast water. I've never tried it, but it seems really interesting!

@LevitaNostra

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker it is, it allows for a slower fermentation than sourdough without as much bacterial deterioration of the gluten. You can make a levain with it or make a direct dough with it!

I've got a beer and honey bread proofing right now bro thanks for the video🔥🔥🔥

You are great, i like all your videos. Can you please make a separate video talking about over fermentation, what's bad about over fermentation? And how to know if my dough is over fermented or not? And is there a way to repair an over fermented dough? Thank you ❤️

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gGeqyrqsY8WWZ9o.html ✌

@tallcedars2310

Жыл бұрын

My first cold ferment was over fermented, my fault. I did not get back to it for 36 hours and it had risen only slightly in the fridge. I let it rise in the pan and again got busy and missed the rise, it sunk. For 5 minutes I tried to knead it back to a ball before calling it quits. Your questions were running through my mind also.

@hotmesshomeec

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker My understanding is that there is a difference between over-fermenting and over-proofing. The video linked deals more with under/over-proofing. This is more about getting the right amount of puff before baking. If you over-proof the bread structure won't be able to handle all the puff and will collapse. The danger with over-fermenting is slightly different and not as limited to the individual stage. As yeast (and LAB in sourdough) do their thing, they create alcohol (and lactic acid), this makes the microbiome of the bread higher in alcohol (and more acidic), this makes it harder for the yeast to survive. The yeast grow exponentially until the environment becomes to high in alcohol and then they die. So if you over-proof, you can usually re-shape, leave it to proof again (will take less time) and then bake. But if you tried to do that AGAIN, your dough would probably be over-fermented and be too high in alcohol for the yeast to make enough rise.

Well, I like both.

Okay, silly me - I decided to start on this after you posted the video (thinking 12 hrs, yes I can do this today), not really taking into account dough prep, the 30-min chill, extended proofing and then baking time. I think i had a few hours of sleep. 😴😴🛌 The results were very similar to your video. Photos have been posted on "Charlie's Baking Buddies".

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

Lan, the nocturnal baker 😁😴

@Jeepy2-LoveToBake

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker 😆

I bought a small jewelry scale (0.01g) for weighing small amounts. It is cheap and worth adding to your kitchen.

Your local head shop has precision scales for weighing less than a gram. It's about 15 bucks but can be as much as 60, depending on how precise you want to be. If you're weighing just tenths, then don't worry about the expensive one you don't need it.

Great video as always, Charlie. Was nice to see the comparison. I’m only a home baker, but I like the flavor that cold fermentation brings. Your recipe for cold fermented ciabatta is the best! 🥖🍞🥯 ✌️😎

I use a 0.01 graded scale weighing, yeast, sugars, salt, Diastatic Malt Powder, and spices/herbs. And I prefer to do a slow cold & warm fermentation with low yeast content, in my standard loaf size with 300gr water and 460gr flour I use 0.6 gr yeast, I always scald 160gr of the flour at start and wait 30 min before I add the rest of the ingredients, then I let it sit in room temp 25-30 degrees C for about 30 minutes, then it goes in the fridge for 8-72 hours (sometimes I make dough for 3 loaves) and take 1/3 after 8-12 hours, 1/3 after 32-36 hours and 1/3 after 56 or even 80-84 hours, when I get the dough out I let it warm up for 2-4 hours, then I fold it, and put it in loaf pan, I let it rise in loaf pan for another 1-3 hours before I bake it.

THANKS

I actually use both forms of fermentation. I allow the dough ball to proof room temperature 12 hours, desired rise, then I cold ferment. Imo, they taste the same.

This is such a great comparison! I have a question though when it comes to producing open crumb bread. Would you say room temp fermentation is better to produce such bread since cold ferment produces tighter loaf?

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

Personally, I think cold proofing is a great way to achieve a more open crumb. There will be a cold proofing guide coming soon. But you can certainly achieve it with any kind of fermentation.

@marysebolduc7016

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for this comparison video. Is all those advantages are the same for cold fermentation with sourdough bread ? Should we increase % hydratation also?

I have been toying with the idea of extended power outage bread… so I’ve been thinking of making my normal bread as a room temp ferment to cut down on manual kneading. I mill my grains fresh, so it takes a long time to knead. I would have to manually mill the grain, but then I could make a no-knead, no fridge, bake on coals bread. Something I want to play with this year.

@ChainBaker

7 ай бұрын

Let me know how it turns out!

Great Baker, and handsome 😊😊👍👍

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

😍

Great video! Question, would sourdough follow the same principles as dry yeast? I’m trying to use sourdough for all my bread baking but my starters are pretty active. Thank you!

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

Same principles apply. I personally like to do cold final proofing when I make sourdough bread.

@michaeljohnrizzo6643

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker I do, as well, but struggle with starter percentage because 20% is too much because my starter is so healthy. I’m at 15% now but even that quantity, after a cold proof, seems to over proof my doughs. I’ll keep adjusting. Thank you!

I use cold fermentation for pizza dough, because it gives me the option of waiting another day or two. I prefer 3-5 day dough, but I'll do anything from 1-7 days. I usually make enough dough to have pizza twice.

This might be a side issue, but do you have any insights concerning the length of fermentation regarding the breakdown of phytate in the whole wheat flour to make it more digestible? I'm looking to make a very healthy, very easily digested loaf of bread for my granddaughter, who currently has gastritis.

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

I'm mot qualified enough to add anything of value to that. I know that gluten gets broken down with longer fermentation, but not sure how it affects phytate. I am gluten intolerant and I find slow fermented bread to be significantly better for me. But that's just anecdotal evidence.

In my experience, digital scales are sensitive to decimal weights, but only if it's not at zero. So, what I do is get two small containers, add water to the first container so the scale hits X0.0g, then measure the salt or yeast in the other container.

@alf5706

Жыл бұрын

This is my experience too. You have to weigh it down a bit to get accuracy. I usually just use a bigger (heavier) bowl.

increasingly Ive been leaning towards CF vs RT ferment. Dough is easier to work with and more flexibility with timing of shaping, proofing and baking with the cold ferment.

Suggestion for video: What effect does adding some cornstarch to bread dough flour make? Does it rise more? Does it five it a more of a crispy crust? Thanks.

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

Here is one example kzread.info/dash/bejne/dYN7vLGnabXKqcY.html I am planning to make a video about various starches in the future.

I’m all for the cold fermented method, it’s more convenient for me anyway, I can control the time and/or the day I want to bake it, and the bread taste better too!😊 One question, if it’s over fermented in the fridge, can you still use it like the starters?🙏🏻

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

It is very hard to over ferment. Watch this kzread.info/dash/bejne/hKmNyNd7pbLcd84.html 😉

@fayeliu2601

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker I did…🙏🏻❤️

I've tried room temp fermentation before but I found it wasn't really worth it, as sometimes I decide against baking the bread the next day due to changes in plans and such. Cold fermentation simply is way more flexible, I often leave it in the fridge for 2-3 days more than I initially intended and I get great and consistent results. This is mainly for pizza, mind you, but I think bread would be fine too.

Hmm I’m finding that my whole wheat bakes are not rising in the fridge and in fact deflates if left for more than 24 hours. Could be the dough drying out? I live in the tropics with average temperatures around 30 so room temperature proofed bread here is as good as tasteless 😅 will adjusting the amount of yeast also counter the effect of hot summer temperatures?

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

If the dough has deflated it means it has over fermented. Try lowering the final dough temperature or lowering the amount of yeast 👍

Ok tell me if I’m saying this right ..I can bulk ferment room temp and then final proof in frig..overnight proofing if I’m saying it right usually for me creates some really good tasting bread..but can you do both? Cold ferment and overnight proof ?

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

I have not tried it, but it may work. There's only one way to find out 😎

Why in some recipes, for example in breads, the dough is fermented in the refrigerator and then goes directly to the oven while in others, such as pizzas, it is fermented cold but then left at room temperature to rise. Is it just to stretch the pizza dough more easily or is it part of the fermentation process? If I make bread, can I put it in the oven straight out of the fridge or should I also wait until it reaches room temperature and rise?

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

It depends on the bread. If it's a large loaf, then it may be a good idea to let it come up to temperature. Smaller loaves and rolls can be baked right from the fridge. There is a cold proofing guide video coming out today btw.

@TheEzemikedirnt

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker Thank you very much for answering. Your channel is amazing!

Quick random question: I had a a couple loaves of cold- fermented lean dough. I bake them up , let them cool for more than +2 hours and put them in plastic overnight? The crust is no longer crusty and the bread is mush in the center. Do have have any suggestion as to why? I was heartbroken this morning.

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

The mushy center may be because it was not baked enough. The crust will go soft regardless of what you do, but the plastic bag will definitely speed up the process.

@AGreen-nx7tg

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker thank you so much! I figured.. not only are you videos awesome, but I watch even more because of how often you respond!

I wonder if can we do cold fermentation and cold-proofing on the same dough? And does this double cold-processing make a significant difference in the result?

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

I am planning to try that sometime soon. Not sure how it will turn out though :)

@audreyzhao6991

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker Let's find out! Love your experimental spirit

So I got another question for you..if your making a loaf of bread does it matter how much yeast you use if your goin to overnight proof it? I’ve been looking at so many recipes and some use a “scant” some use 15-20 grams does it make a difference as far as the cold proof process?

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

It matters a lot. You want to use less yeast than normally. I go for 1% in both cold bulk fermentation kzread.info/dash/bejne/qmFst9F-l9faZJs.html and cold proofing (video coming soon).

I'm usually in a hurry so I usually warm ferment, plus I have trouble determining how soon to take the dough out of the fridge if I want the bread to be done at a certain time and my oven is tied up or I want to have pizza at 7pm

I prefer the room temperature because it doesn't need time to warm up before final proof.

i am curious on cold proof and room temperature proof for spring roll wrapper (Taiwanese run bing) dough or Malaysia call it Popiah skin.

@ChainBaker

3 ай бұрын

Is that fermented? Looks like spring roll dough.

@alliyaqistina

3 ай бұрын

@@ChainBaker normally it is fermented a few hours. No yeast, just flour, salt and water.

@ChainBaker

3 ай бұрын

If there is no yeast there is no fermentation. The temperature does not matter in that case.

@alliyaqistina

3 ай бұрын

@@ChainBaker noted. Thought there wld be a difference on the temperature for non-yeast dough. Thank you for your reply.

Because of the unpredictability I've given up slow ferments at room temperature with the sole exception of pizza dough where I make it using Helen Rennie's recipe first thing in the morning for use at dinner time.

If you would use fresh yeast, the number would be bigger on the scale. This could help IMO :)

Hello Mr. Baker …how much % yeast for each one, Room fermentation and cold fermentation ? 🙏🏻

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

0.1% for RT and 1% for cold.

Does this apply to soft, fluffy breads like tangzhong/yudane dinner rolls as well? What effect would it have one them since crust development isn't what is wanted?

@ChainBaker

6 ай бұрын

Slower fermentation would make those breads chewier which would counteract the effect of the yudane or tangzhong, but they would benefit from the flavour boost though.

@WhiteCleats

6 ай бұрын

@@ChainBaker Ooh, I got it. I wouldn't have figured that out on my own. Thanks, CB! I practiced doing a cold bulk fermentation with my bread roll recipe just after I asked this question, and when hot (of course), they were great but when cold they were definitely chewer than expected. And frankly, no more flavorful than rolls that are done all at room temperature. What do you think is the best method for fluffy dinner rolls??

@ChainBaker

6 ай бұрын

I would do a same day bake fermented at room temperature and made with yudane.

@WhiteCleats

6 ай бұрын

@@ChainBaker One last question if you don’t mind. I don’t need to deduct the water used for the Yudane from the recipe, right? The point of these conditioners is that I can use them to increase hydration, texture, and manageability, yes? I deduct the flour but not the water. And which percentage do you recommend in this case? 20% Yudane?

@EmmaDee

Ай бұрын

@@WhiteCleatsoh crap! I didn’t consider this at all and feel like idiot if the answer is what I suspect. My dough seems extremely wet and in this case, it likely is lacking a few tbsp of flour. I screwed up.

I recommend what we call here a drug scale. They are much more sensitive and accurate. Resolution of mine is 0.01 grams. Maybe not accurate to 0.01 gram but even if not it's definitely close. Converted to US Dollars it was just 15 including shipping. I now use that for yeast and even salt and sugar for small amount.

Can I assume that if I'm using sourdough starter to make sourdough bread, I would need the same adjustment as your yeast adjustment if I want to cold ferment? It seems like that would require a huge amount of starter.

@ChainBaker

Жыл бұрын

I think cold final proofing is the best cold fermentation method for sourdough bread. And then you don't need to do any adjustments to the ingredients.

@carolr4871

Жыл бұрын

@@ChainBaker Thank you! I will try that with my next loaf. I've been making SD bread for 4 years, and the loaves are coming out great. But I still struggle with the baking schedule, so this will help.

Can you do an experiment where you warm ferment for 12 hours and cold ferment for the remaining 12 hours?

@ChainBaker

9 ай бұрын

I'll leave that one to you ✌️

For anyone doing small measurements like that, amazon has pretty cheap scales that have .01 accuracy for like 10-15 bucks just search cheap jewelry scale 👊🏾

I want to get rid of a large amount of gluten. What do you advise me to do?

@ChainBaker

6 ай бұрын

Long fermentation breaks down gluten and can make the bread more digestible. Cold fermentation is a good option. Here is a video about it - kzread.info/dash/bejne/hKmNyNd7pbLcd84.htmlsi=zgiwQ_x6fZpUHRzh