6:41 Okay, but when Aang goes into the avatar state after finding Monk Gyatso's body in the Eastern Air Temple, is that not Cyclonic Rift? Flavor win if you ask me.

@ana-alyciajuarez5958

5 ай бұрын

And if you wanna be like “cyclonic rift has water brrrrroooo!!” When he’s a giant sea monster in the Northern Water Tribe and smacking and washing dudes away, sounds like a rift to meeee

@joseluisrw

5 ай бұрын

They could always use river's rebuke or whelming wave and that wouldn't be obnoxious.

@garrettpeoples4139

5 ай бұрын

@@joseluisrwor you could stop trying to deck police a choice that is totally reasonable for the theme of the deck

@abderianagelast7868

5 ай бұрын

​@@joseluisrwThey could also run both of those cards alongside Rift since Rift is already pretty on-theme for elemental manipulation

@Nr4747

2 ай бұрын

@@joseluisrw Theme decks are usually quite a lot lower on the power scale than almost all fully synergistic decks, so I personally wouldn't call running a few powerhouse cards that happen to be perfectly on theme "obnoxious".

I made a “snakes on a plane” deck with Xyris, the writhing storm. Essentially, he makes snakes, and I play a few other snakes, to crew vehicles. I took out all of the wheel effects, combo pieces, etc., and people still kill them on sight. But honestly, I’ve also won enough with it that I see why. It’s a super fun and stupid deck that also happens to do well.

@azzychentnik1663

5 ай бұрын

I ran into a problem like that in a deck, apparently yargle and multani isn't what people expect when I say I'm running frogs😂

@kieranheaton4951

2 ай бұрын

That sounds hilarious.

On MTGO there was a format called "Tribal Wars" where the one restriction was that one-third of your deck has to be the same creature type. It was a simple-enough restriction but still made the decks feel thematic. I apply that same standard to my own theme decks in EDH, and I also let people know before playing that "1/3rd of the deck are " so there's that expectation that there will be some "non-theme" cards but the majority are themed cards and lands.

Thanks for addressing this. I have an elephant tribal deck that my son is always harping on me to upgrade. But to upgrade it, I would have to take out some of the bad elephant creatures, or cards with an elephant in the art work and I just won’t do that. Granted, there are support cards in it that don’t have an elephant on them, but it’s at a minimum to make the deck playable in the play groups it sees time. And I believe that’s the key here. Playing these decks in the appropriate groups to make sure everyone has a fun play experience. Heck, that’s an episode in and of itself.

@baixiaolang

5 ай бұрын

See I like the way you described it. Even in your elephant deck, you admit there are cards that don't have elephants in them (at a minimum, to make the deck playable). So when he says early in the video "are these cards honorary unicorns or anything I missing something?" I thought that was a silly question bc while obviously Craterhoof isn't one, I don't see anything wrong with Tooth and Nail being in it despite not having a unicorn in it, bc obviously, you would have to have SOME non unicorns (non creatures) in it to make the deck playable. Now ofc if the power level is supposed to be low and their non unicorns cards are all high power that's a valid point, but there's literally only 71 cards with unicorns in them according to scryfall and the vast majority are creatures, so like yeah, obviously there are going to be cards in most unicorn decks that don't have unicorns in them. Craterhoof I would say is 'cheating' though, bc if you're saying the deck is an all [creature type] deck then all the creatures should be that type, but imo the other card types are fair game, especially when there's a limited amount of that creature type in the art of non creature cards.

@MetaKaios

3 ай бұрын

@@baixiaolang There's a basic Plains with unicorns on it, which is technically an unlimited amount (in terms of having enough to fill a deck with). =^)

@Slayerlord13

9 күн бұрын

Sorry for commenting months late but I have to know, do you still upgrade it by adding occasional newer cards with elephant(s) like Generous Gift?

@timtrain35

9 күн бұрын

@@Slayerlord13 Yes! My recent adds were Conclave Evangelist and Unyielding Gatekeeper..

@Slayerlord13

9 күн бұрын

@@timtrain35 Nice!

It could also that since powerful goodstuff cards tend to also be expensive commodities that people have few if any copies of, they might choose to include those cards in the decks they love most. Like a beloved pet deck.

I play a Kenrith gates/landfall deck that I forced the gates theme a lot harder than I maybe should have. The theme is forced by only being able to fetch for gates, the only non-basics I run are gates, maze’s end, command tower, and the world tree, and I typically don’t even cast Kenrith. Even with those restrictions I still get the “Oh you’re just playing a super powerful commander for its value” even when people have played against the deck in the past. Some people will never be happy with how you build your decks unless you’re handing them wins.

@Iker888

5 ай бұрын

With certain commanders it’s just hard to ignore that intrinsic fear. I’ve had more than one game with “silly” Kenrith decks that blew me out of the water. That’s why I like to play inconspicuous commanders.

@RobbyRobRob42

5 ай бұрын

@@Iker888 I usually do too, sometimes there just isn’t a commander that meets the theme or provides the base you need to be able to build certain decks. I do see where you’re coming from and have seen people do the same though

@Controlqueen31

5 ай бұрын

The problem is that people doesn't know what threat assessment is. What I mean is that some Commanders are value engines or powerful enough to play anything around them and be like "Watch this snowball". That's how they see you Kenrith, even if you don't play it and say things like you posted here. A commander that draw cards "easily" like Kenrith, Korvold or Chulane... Are always dangerous and an ace under the sleeve for value.

@davidbain7629

5 ай бұрын

I feel that. I did the same thing with gates golos. Turns out it was waaay to good for my play group. I was thinking the gates alt win con as a meme but it turns out gates alt win is not as hard as I thought. I recommend not looking at it as my friends don't understand my power level and more of do I understand my decks power level? Like how fast/consistent is my deck. Is it better than I think? I constantly do this because as a long time player (and I would like to say good) my understanding of "good" is different than others.

@rexempire3365

5 ай бұрын

​@@Iker888 Be careful with "Under the radar" style Commanders. You might get targeted down because someone else played a CEDH deck with a figure head Commander (they might be afraid that you're doing the same thing).

I made a Lathril deck with a theme where I used the elves to convoke out giant beaters like impervious greatwurm or Mossbridge troll. I like to think of it like the elves bowing down to summon these ancient powerful gods from the deep forest. Called it "The old Gods" , one of my more fun decks to pilot.

@johnnyborbon5085

5 ай бұрын

Omg this sounds so cool, I need to see a list!!

@kylemaycock

5 ай бұрын

Would Binding of the Old Gods in your deck be a flavor win or flavor fail 🤔

@jaredcrawford923

5 ай бұрын

Considering it is in the list, I'm thinking win. lol@@kylemaycock

@ExeEspe-by2ct

5 ай бұрын

@@kylemaycockI feel like it’d be a win, the elves are binding the old god to their will

@AnkoniteReaver

9 күн бұрын

Pray to the old gods

It's pretty hard to draw lines. One person's casual inclusion is another person's boogyman card. I think it's just as important to teach people tolerance of other's quirks as it is to teach sensitivity. Also, putting a couple of good stuff cards into a theme deck is not only fine, it should be expected. Precon power level is about the lowest that the overwhelming majority of tables play at. And precon powerlevel is pretty high these days. Boosting a joke deck's power level to that of a precon is a good move in my opinion.

@robertk1834

5 ай бұрын

heard this story so many times, nothing new here

@harleybaker4684

5 ай бұрын

Big agree! My most recent semi ioke deck was animar with keruga companion because I found doing nothing until turn 3 to be hilarious and let me play a lot of my favorite pet cards that usually cost too much mana to be considered alongside staples. To make it viable with my group I had to add some stronger things in there to counteract the inherit disadvantage

@yugioh1870

5 ай бұрын

The easiest line to draw is just "Is this card legal in the format"

@bryceosborne4357

5 ай бұрын

Currently working on a saproling deck with grismold as the commander. Not sure of cards like arachnogenesis and ezuris predation fit the theme but..tokens? Feels close enough

@constantine270

5 ай бұрын

​@@yugioh1870 im sorry but a lot of card are not banned but guve advantage the moment it hit the table or Just exist in the deck from my point of view all tutor (even the Land one) should be banned in "casual"

The big indicator to go with "Good Stuff" was, in my personal experience, a surroundings/playgroup moment for sure. Basically someone that you play with decently a lot, or even your own self, decides to press the nuke button, showcasing an increase in deck power that make other decks weak and unable to perform on the same level. This requires the rest to play catch up, sacrificing their deck's thematic integrity in turn to produce at a similar level as the reasoning behind the push to use "Good Stuff". Sometimes it's a sting towards the player and becomes a bit more cookie cutter, but other times it's giving the fire power to push for the theme to produce better and more consistently. In my personal experience, someone decided to buy a prebuilt +$200 Zacama deck and we still played $20-$40 precons at the time. It was rough, even in an archenemy setting at the table, but we all broke down and realized that our decks couldn't cut it cosistently, so we started not just getting thematic upgrades, but getting "Good Stuff" as well as an "Aha!" to the Zacama deck. It's definitely turned into most of our decks including "Good Stuff" and becoming must haves when building, unless we makes builds purposefully not including them. It's a bit of a slippery slope, but it's entirely a subjective build inclusion when playing!

@przemekkozlowski7835

5 ай бұрын

It's definitely an escalation thing. You play with the same group of people every week and everything is pretty casual. Then people start tweaking their favourite decks as they get new cards. Suddenly, the other players find themselves losing more until they find themselves shut out of the game. They start modifying their decks to get back into the game and the power creep increases.

This video said a lot of things I'd been thinking for a while. For me, it wasn't a Charix crab deck, it was an Archelos Turtles deck. But no matter what, the turtles were always the worst cards in my hand, and never contributed to closing the game. My solution has essentially been that the theme in my theme decks has to contribute to my gameplan. I can't make a meme-y turtles deck if those turtles aren't pulling their weight. My current favorite deck is also a theme deck, but the theme is a tribute to my friendship with my best friend, and many of its cards aren't included because they're (necessarily) very good, but because they represent those memories. But those theme cards aren't totally divorced from a more focused strategy, and definitely help out. If I were to summarize it, I'd say that the deck's strategy comes first, and then I go looking for on-theme alternatives to the cards in that more focused version of the list. But when I pull it out at game night, I don't say "it's a theme deck." It's still emphasizing the strategy the commander promotes. Instead, it's probably better described as a "subtheme deck," if I wanted to represent it that way. Very well-said. Great video! 😁

@1321Jester

5 ай бұрын

Love my turtles deck , archelos at the helm tho felt so bad, but I use Igna and esika so now my turtles get to do stuff, they dorks that draw into more turtles, it's so enjoyable to play. However it does have some of the things he talk about but the engine and wincon is still the turtles, since they have toughness matter to be big beaters

@TeaHauss

5 ай бұрын

This 100%. If the theme isn't how I win, I end up scrapping the deck

A themed deck doesn't really have to completely and utterly chain itself to said theme. My Ayula, Queen Among Bears deck is very much themed around bears, and I'll routinely hunt down cool cards with bears in the art (i.e. Fade from History, or the LotR version of Beast Within). However, I still enjoy adding cards that I find to be generally good (i.e. Vigor, Toski, the green Ozolith) and then I simply retroactively add those to the worldbuilding/myth I envisioned for the deck at the time of its inception.

@thadrin

5 ай бұрын

I have an Ayula deck too. Of the 36 creatures in the deck only one* either is not a bear or has art featuring a bear (Syr Faren the Hengehammer, Owlbear Shepherd, Quirion Beastcaller for example). I'm still running a suite of good green ramp, a Rhonas Monument and some fun tricks so the deck isn't completely linear and can maintain a hand. As Joey says... a theme deck still has to be playable. The deck has won, and sometimes done so in devastating fashion, but it is in no way overpowered. * That one non-bear is Renata, called to the hunt. I bought an Altersleeve so the card LOOKS like a bear, and I always say they would have put "of bears" on her tpe line if it wasn't already full.

@drewinsch2916

5 ай бұрын

One of my favorite cards in my Ayula deck is Winter Orb (with the polar bear art). It's not as efficient as it could be otherwise in a deck that has access to blue but it works well with Bear Umbra at least.

@gregory3499

4 ай бұрын

I count Toski as a bear in my deck. I mean he is the BEARer of secrets.

@drewinsch2916

4 ай бұрын

@@gregory3499 that's clever.

Yes! I always go for flavor and theme over staples in my tribal decks! I wouldn't play silly tribes if I didn't want to have fun playing them with odd cards

@drewinsch2916

5 ай бұрын

I tend to value flavor over power too but it can be tough when you want your deck to hold its own against players who don't build theme decks.

All hail Charix, King among Crabs! I started building him as a meme obscure sea creature deck, but he’s morphed into a sword wielding, chariot riding, one shot kill, voltron powerhouse. My pod loves to see him, just not swinging their direction. There are a few instant speed swap power and toughness spells that exist and they are always hilarious to pull off.

@pmahnke3

5 ай бұрын

Decklist! I have a foil charix needing to be used.

@gpwaltz

5 ай бұрын

Deckliiist

@kirbyfanprime

5 ай бұрын

Oh, yours too? I also put in a small "Islands matter" theme with Strata Scythe, Tempest Djinn, Blackblade, and so on.

I like your thought process, interesting video, really resonates with how I struggle to build decks.

THANK YOU SIR! I have been searching for a good not blue deck and you commander commander deck is brilliant! It is the last color combination of commander decks that I do not have yet.

Love my Charix, True Lord of the Rings deck. He is the one crab to rule all in my heart. This deck is capable against the good stuff and a genuine joy to pilot. It was definitely a difficult task weighing many of the "Good stuff" cards I could/should include but ultimately I always thought about how I wanted to win and built accordingly. Running it against Eldrazi, Slivers, and the like of just powerhouses of decks did highlight some blaring weaknesses that the deck has like 1 or 2 cards to maybe slap a small bandage over, but I fully intend on keeping the deck as is power level wise as I can manage to sneak out a surprise win 1 of 5 ish games. Plus the group I play with gives the deck so much praise for its surprising strength. Also love being told "it should not work as well as it does given the theme". This keeps me building and brewing.

@bowlcut880

5 ай бұрын

Mind dropping a decklist/moxfield username? I'm curious about this build! Sounds fun!

@AkuEevee

5 ай бұрын

Moxfield deck name: Charix, True Lord of the Rings

Thank you for this video Joey. It definitely cast some light on an issue that I have with one of my " theme decks". The ultimate point of the deck is to create an engine that breaks acorn catapult and turns it into an infinite damage, combo. The issue with the deck is the construction of the combo is incredibly difficult to accomplish. The commander of the deck is Kenrith. The unfortunate play pattern of the deck is to use incredibly efficient ramp and a highly tuned mana base to put me a head-on resources and fix my colors quickly. The next drawback is that the deck pulls no punches on tutoring. The interaction is also efficient, however I don't run an enormous amount of interaction, my personal playstyle is usually put your head down and try and get the win, ignore your opponents as much as possible. I'm not sure if there's a solution or more appropriate way to build my deck, however your discussion on the topic does have me interested in putting the deck face up on the table and really seeing if I can nail down a less spiky play pattern to accomplish the ultimate goal. As an afterthought I do have to explain, my local play group is either highly enfranchised players with multiple decks typically in the upper range of power, or as that is the case with part of our play group proxy cards are welcomed and encouraged. It's not so much playing this deck with my local play group that creates an issue as they are familiar with the overall play pattern of this deck. Mostly the issue arises when I'm playing in unfamiliar groups, where players recognize how quickly I am putting myself ahead on resources and how often I am casting spells to tutor for combo pieces. I am often exchanging life for mana resources and dealing a great deal of damage to myself in the process and not really creating a creature board state for potentially blocking. The biggest downfall of the deck is crumpling very hard to a table of players hellbent at sending every combat step at me. A totally reasonable reaction I might add

I think this was a great summary of the topic. I try to build most of my decks this way with a tight restriction. My opinion is it leads to interesting deck building by not playing the staples and when one of those staples happens to fit, even. I like looking to flavour text and art for typal decks. A personal example is an elephant typal deck playing teferi's protection and generous gift. Due to the nature of commander being self correcting is that if you are learning hard into a theme that usually buy political favour allowing more time to develop your game plan.

@michaeltillotson3711

5 ай бұрын

The staples fitting is an important part of it. I have lined the cards painful quandary, but I always take it out of decks. But I built a bad decision deck and it had to go in there

I think one of my most off the wall theme decks is my Parnesse, the subtle brush deck that I describe as "Decision Paralysis", every card gives the opponent a choice for what happens (e.g., Captive audience, Dwarven driller, Prince of Thralls, Wand of Ith). When building I did have to carve out a caveat that mana rocks were exempt from the rule, since grixis is bad at ramp and many of the theme cards are expensive. I do have a fair amount of good stuff in the deck like Torment of hailfire, Rhystic study, and Temporal Extortion since they do technically give the opponent a choice, and with potential do nothing cards like Dash hopes and Rhystic Tutor in it I think the power level isn't too high. I do describe the deck as a stacks deck when introducing it since that's the bulk of the theme cards.

As a person who flips the script on decks packed with power cards (goodstuff as you call it), I will tell you the secret to making a "bad" deck, at the very least, make an impact, is low-cost removal. You don't run the risk of overtaking the game with power cards, but you buy enough time in the game to do something else impactful, but on theme. For example, in my "jank" Rafiq deck that seeks out Urborg and utilizes many of the cards that punish people based on swamp count, I run Wash Away, Natural State, Unsummon, etc to disrupt explosive early turns, in order to buy the time necessary to eventually do that cast Karma and pass, "You guys each die on your upkeep because of your now high land count." (I've done this twice so far), or swing with a 25/25 Angry Mob for lethal damage with the assistance of Rafiq's double-strike buff. The deck in question is named "Karma's a Bitch" and rightfully so, as I will say that every single time I cast Karma when it will kill someone in the rotation.

My Lulu/Cultist of the Absolute deck is a tribute to Doro and her ‘80s metal band Warlock. Non-basic lands are venues, Cultivator’s Caravan is the tour bus. Krav is the demon mentioned in “Metal Tango”, while the Krav/Regna partnership is an “Unholy Love”. 1/1 tokens are the fans (her “forever warriors”). There are cards that represent songs or even specific lyrics-“I Rule the Ruins”, “Touch of Evil”, “Burn the Witches”, “All We Are”, and more. Introducing Battle Angels of Tyr as the “promoters” never fails to get a laugh. There are some powerful staples-Land Tax, Smothering Tithe, Esper Sentinel (gotta get paid, right?) and Anointed Procession all come to mind-but because so many of the typical “deck building template” rules were sacrificed to the theme, those staples don’t overshadow the point of the deck. The deck has never won in its half dozen or so appearances, but it’s been fun. It’s like staying up late for Headbangers Ball all over again. 😂

My most recent and favorite themed deck has been my “welcome to Innistrad” deck. It’s built with cards only from the Innistrad blocks and lore. I was able to make it 5C because the mtg universe versions of the Stanger Things SL are characters from Innistrad.

but what if the theme is goodstuff

@4:08 absolutely killed me 🤣🤣🤣 "I play... WISHCOIN CRAB!" 😂😂😂

Funny story about Taunt from the Ramparts, I was watching a pod at my local game store and one of the players was running the Rohan deck. He cast this spell...while two of his opponents each had a Wandering Archaic on the field. He could not pay the tax, so three versions of this spell were put on the stack and resolved. When I realized what this meant for the fourth player and voiced it to the table, we all had a very good laugh.

I feel like the horseshoe crab combo is a win, I think finding combos with synergy with your theme is pretty cool! Now craterhoof in ur theme thats different, but abusin a funny lil crab dood is dope

As a loyal crabs player, I use Chulane as the commander. Some people when I pull that out think I'm going full-on value engine whenever I play it. However, the only reason I use Chulane is because it gets me all the colors other crabs fall in. Yes, it does have a few cards to help it out, but it's not all the goodstuff cards. But it's always fun to get to play Scuttlegator or Sharktocrab.

So funny thing, really. My friend decided to make a theme deck. The theme was that he based it around our group's Pathfinder game (which admittedly was inspired by MTG and Ravnica so there was an easy "in" for the deck, but it gets kinda crazy) and would have ALL of the creatures and spells based on characters, both PC and NPC, and events from the campaign. The commander is Rem Karolus, so he's restricted to 2 colors... AND he managed to get a card to fit every party member AND a bunch of important NPCs! One of the cards he runs is firesong and sunspeaker, and their PF game actually featured two twin Minotaur clerics from the Boros faction! And even all of the Earthquake spells were able to reference different events form the campaign! AND IT WINS GAMES! The cards that best fit the references turned out to be exactly what his deck wanted for synergy! It's absolutely mental lol.

@vanstromi7810

5 ай бұрын

Can I see this deck list? Super intrigued! Sounds fun!

@jemm113

5 ай бұрын

@@vanstromi7810 I wish I could, but he doesn’t post his decklists online, he does it all caveman-style.

@vanstromi7810

5 ай бұрын

@@jemm113 well tell him to write that sh down and take a picture of it 😂

@vanstromi7810

5 ай бұрын

@@jemm113 so easy, a caveman could do it 😂

This hits pretty close with a recent deck I built, trying to do Gorex, the zombie turtle and doing a sort of monoblack "zoo" deck with a bunch of undead animals. Putting in an Ophiomancer definitely fit the reptile theme, but now I'm looking at a spare Skullclamp wondering if it's too strong to put in. Wondering how it'd affect the budget, the theme, the power, just that one card is giving me such a headache. Strong points in the video are definitely going to help.

@constantine270

5 ай бұрын

It depends if you can always Take advantage of the skullclamp when you have (meaning having a bunch of 1 toughness) yeah its strong but if its only because you play the ophiomancer why not go play it

@Appe07

5 ай бұрын

I like skullclamp in it if it’s the one with the art looking like a scorpion. That fits. 👍🏻

@lVideoWatcherl

Ай бұрын

Zombie animals and 'Skullclamp'? Soinds like a match made in heaven, the skullclamp extracts the last bits of brains from your creatures, or from the creatures you want to feed to your Zombies

I have an "X-Men The Animated Series" theme deck around Melek, Izzet Paragon as Gambit. The goal is to fling burn spells from the top of the deck, but I also want the other X-Men to show up even though pure spellslinger would probably be more powerful. Sometimes mechanics and flavor align (Nivix Cyclops and Arclight Phoenix). Sometimes the flavor wins out over function (Rusted Slasher, an artifact creature with regenerate, is...not good, but its so perfect and you can't have an X-Men team without Wolverine). But the themed creatures are only 10% of the deck, so the vibes of the non-creature spells have to be immaculate. Burn spells, impulse draw, storm spells, Gamble, anything that has me throwing cards around and causing mayhem. And of course, every spell with Gambit in the name, especially the bad ones. People don't mind getting Mind's Desired for 12 when they also see me flub the 3rd flip on Fiery Gambit. A full commitment to the bit is integral to success. If someone asks me if its a Storm deck, I gotta put on my worst Cajun accent and say "Non, mon ami, this is a GAMBIT deck."

The most underated topic ever! Glad that you take it up. I'm still tuning my darklord sauron with 9 nazgul into a useful & high powered yet also meaningful; last December I got fed up with all the loses with the deck that I implant 2 combos into them. yesterday I overhauled them all into useful villainous sauron (what if sauron got a small help by abaddon and davros)

@TargetSniper365

2 ай бұрын

I also have a dark lord Sauron deck and I found that adding in “good stuff” was critical to win. I also built it as a reanimator deck with heavy control elements and it’s now a legion of evil since I run 4 praetors

Clean and efficient takedown of that chatter! In reference to the video, I have two decks that I can think of that are opposite ends of the spectrum. My arixmethes sea monsters deck has some added good stuff while my grixis good stuff deck eventually had a Sonic theme attached to it. While I will say their origins are intact, both have fun cards that need some amount of good stuff in order to "do the thing". I've found my happy middle, but am always on the lookout for thematic cards to replace the good stuff.

I'm getting into MTG and really like the Vishgraz commader style. Toxic+summon mites. Got inspired to make a "Starship Troopers Bug" theme. I know the mites can't block but a horde of bug with Toxic sounded fun. Now do I have a bunch of token doublers/triple? Yes. Some wasn't cheap but managed to trade for some of em at my LGS. Adding in a bunch of cards that generate mites is the goal. Do I expect to win? No, especially when the table figures out what I'm doing but once again. A horde of bugs to attack ala Starship Troopers just seemed great for a theme. (Helps that Vishgraz is a big bug lad)

As a generally new commander player I’ve had this become my major problem. I love theme decks but it becomes so hard when you want it to be able to be fun and powerful without those money cards

@gpwaltz

5 ай бұрын

I think it's just a matter of finding the right playgroup who's also down to play jank. If you could wipe any table with a truly thematic "Oops, All Crabs!" or "Women Looking Left in the Desert" deck, then we'd see a lot more of that. But you have to pick a lane, I think, and get out of the no-mans land of "vaguely powerful but held back by a half-assed commitment to a meme"

I've got more than a few strict meme/theme decks under my belt! It's always a phenomenal challenge and helps sate my endless appetite for deckbuilding. Some of my faves: - All Alliterative with Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant - One-Word Only with Progenitus - Pirates and Sea Monsters with Admiral Beckett Brass & Gyruda, Doom of Depths

I made a Rasaad deck with a crab theme! It's a toughness matters Voltron deck and it's silly and fun and actually has performed pretty well in the online group I play in!

I include power cards that fit the theme of my deck (Mana Crypt in my coin flip deck). Beyond that, I follow the generalized 12 ramp 12 removal method, whether on theme or off.

If you make custom proxies for theme decks, it helps buy-in a lot!

@Dragonfly9078

5 ай бұрын

This. I have an MLP theme deck and the first question I ask about any card I consider adding is "can I find art that makes this make sense?" If the answer is no, it doesn't go in, and if the answer is yes, then my opponents can see exactly why I felt it fit the theme.

@MetaKaios

3 ай бұрын

I feel the opposite. I'd be fine with custom proxies only in non-theme decks. Otherwise you could just put any card you want in a 'theme deck' by changing the picture, and to me that defeats the purpose of building a theme deck. Limitation breeds creativity. EDIT: Did you mean just making custom versions of cards that already fit the theme? (eg. putting TMNT art on Kappa Tech-Wrecker or Gemrazer) If so, your statement makes more sense to me now.

@Dragonfly9078

3 ай бұрын

@@MetaKaios yeah, kind of like what they do with the Universes Beyond, the card fits the deck but custom art illustrates that connection better. Now the caveat to that is if the theme is related to the art of the card I wouldn't change that. If your theme is "creatures with spears" or to use another MLP example "creatures with smiles," then yes I agree 100% you could just make an alter that has a spear or a picture where the original didn't, which completely defeats the purpose

This reminded me when I first started playing Commander. I built a Merieke Ri Berit voting matters deck. The deck lasted a week before I took it apart

This video really speaks to me since most of my decks try to adhere to a theme. I've been gathering cards for a Ninja Turtles deck that I'm too scarred to start building. Turtles, Weapons, Ninjas, Mutants.....way too many directions to go in for one deck.

there is no issue with a theme deck having staples in it - unicorn craterhoof is hilarious. (craterHOOF, get it? covered in horns, too.) they probably did that because they were told their deck needed a wincon

This happened with my Gargos hydra deck. It slowly became a green good stuff deck. This video has given me the motivation to revamp it to strictly hydra tribal. I'll make another green deck to use the stuff taken out.

I've been through this with my General Tazri Ally deck...after a LONG journey, multiple rebuilds and giving up... the key is to just be self-aware. If you're supporting the jank/niche with strong cards. Just say that at rule 0 and play your strong, themed deck 🤷

Thank you wotc for making cards for commander.

This is prophetic timing, I just got back from a EDH game night and had some interesting thoughts on HOW I build decks. For example, tonight I debuted my "Tribal Foundation" deck, where I have a 50 card core of Tribal support and mana fixing. The other 50 cards ends up being modular, taking in 50 cards of whatever tribe I choose. It, in theory, lets me set up any tribe I want in much less time....but I find that a lot of the generic all purpose tribal support like Door of Destinies and Steely Resolve aren't as driving on the actual THEME of a tribe than say, Merrow Commerce or Catapult Master. So a lot of the deck felt like good stuff and I honestly ran out of room for a LOT of the more weird and fun stuff I could have run if the colors and scope were more specific... In my other decks, I almost ALWAYS have a deckbuilding start of "What/how much ramp, what removal, how do I draw cards, how do I protect my stuff, how can I stop my opponent's combos" and so very often the answers to those are very "Goodstuff" cards. I always want removal for all sorts of things, so I put in Path to Exile and Krosan Grip. Protection is usually Heroic Intervention, card is Rhystic Study, etc. And when those key things are the FIRST thing I build....they get filled faster. Between staples that grow from 10...to 20...to 30 or 40, plus 30+ lands...suddenly the actual UNIQUE cards of my deck is barely a quarter of it! So, like you did allude to, I think a lot of it comes from intention. Most decks should have answers, if anything I find that EDH players play less answers than they should, but it is one thing to shore up your established support with some winners and another for you to default to a best of list with a splash of a theme as an after thought. But I do adore the jank, it is my favorite things to explore in ANY game, the weird and what if, the curious combinations and elaborate setups. And I think you got it right, if a deck finishes a game like you'd expect, if the engine driving it is as you expect, than I think it is a success. A unicorn deck can save it's butt with a Teferi's Protection or a Path to Exile, but I would love to see it win at the charge of a glittering horde not a combo kill from non-unicorn stuff. But that is why it is ALWAYS good to discuss with your pod the way you want to play the game, as anything can be fine if everyone is on the same page.

Thank you, you’ve given me plenty of things to think about. I don’t get to play often, so I tend to cram “good stuff” into every deck, and it feels off to me. And as a Glorious Combat player, Taunt from the Rampart SLAPS.

There's a "YOU FELL FOR MY TRAP CARD" Sultai morph/foretell/manifest deck that I'm brewing up, it looks reaaaalllly fun, I think this video has inspired me to take out some staples for more on theme stuff.

I had to force myself lately, when creating my Najeela, the Blade-Blossom deck. I built it by containing 36 lands and 62 Warrior-creatures and two creatures that become Warriors when entering the battlefield (Roaming Throna and Titan of Littjara). I'm still pondering whether I take the last two out and go all Warriors.

@GrizzneyGames

5 ай бұрын

If I owned a copy of her, that's exactly how I'd build it. Every warrior I could find would go in there, even if it was a vanilla creature. 😅

@connorjennings4203

5 ай бұрын

Titan of litjara definitely looks like he could be a giant warrior, and roaming throne could be throne of an ancient warrior king :)

My only "theme" deck is my Mirko Vosk and the theme is "Dracula's Castle" from the Castlevania games. The great thing about that theme is that it all the "good stuff" cards still make sense because I try to make them match up with a monster or moment from the games, even the "good stuff" cards. And the one time anyone asked why is had something like Omniscience in the deck, i just had to reply "I''m freaking DRACULA, that's why!". Also its a mill-deck :)

@Garl_Vinland

5 ай бұрын

“What’s cyclonic rift doing in a Dracula deck?” “HYDRO STORM!”

@michaelsparks1571

5 ай бұрын

@@Garl_Vinland I actually say its when Death steals all of Alucard's stuff at the start of Symphony of the Night.

Charix crab tribal was actually the first deck I ever built! Since crabs will instinctively hold onto anything they can pinch, giving the big crab a few pieces of equipment was easy to justify. It's not an absolute power house or anything, but it gets by fine at the less sweaty tables - even if it's full of non-meta picks. Sure, Rhystic Study and Cyclonic Rift are nice, but I have Witch's Oven and Lembas so I can have crab rangoons and endless breadsticks.

To add to this, I run a fallout only deck, with Atraxa at the helm. (Getting a custom proxy of it). To consider, is I got few board wipe options, but one of them is Farewell.

I'm working on building my first deck (I'm a new player) around the commander Inga and Eska, and I specifically had hoped to visually create a colorful deck. Thus far in my research, it's going to be quite the challenge. If I can't accomplish my "rainbow theme" with Inga and Eska though, I'm okay with attempting it with a different deck down the line.

@ethelredcrimmins8984

3 ай бұрын

Look up Cromat.

Man, I know this feeling hard. When I got the Buckle Up precon I was super excited to play a mecha deck, do some Gundam LARPing. Now Shorikai is my commander and Intruder Alarm and Lab Maniac and Lab Jace are my wincons.

I tend to pick out a handful of cards on theme, a handful of cards that are *mechanicaly* on theme (i.e. good synergies) and then a handful of card draw & interaction. Bonus points if I can start blurring the lines between the categories.

I made a Chatterfang deck, all I knew is that I put every squirrel related card I had and could get on my budget and then filled the rest with stuff that made tokens, some stuff that had sac payoffs and the generic removal and draw cards I had I included a single combo that made infinite squirrels but didn't even need Chatterfang It was in a game with a friend I noticed a different infinite combo where a lot of the parts had redundancies, later I learned of another, then as I cracked tutors I added them, cutting on some of the weaker stuff Now the deck is mostly a token spam deck that either uses them to find a combo or an overrun effect, I also don't call it my "all squirrel" deck anymore I do have a second copy of Chatterfang and have been considering making a second one where I take the theme much further and stick to it, just make enough squirrels and make them big enough to take on the Eldrazi like I intended to when I started the deck

I do have a Crabs deck! It's crabs plus "return to hand" removal effects.

Another way to consider thinking about a theme that is not working, consider expanding it to something that will. You will still be able to scratch the fun theme itch while actually playing. Instead of making it a crab deck for example, go with a "creatures of the sea" deck. This could move into Kraken, Leviathan, Serpents, etc

I totally get Joey’s point, I made a rock deck for Stella where all my manalith tokens were hand samples from the field, and every card was a dinosaur or rock related. I also have a morph deck that has cyc rift, overwhelming stampede and end raze forerunners. I think some weaker themes stuggle to find ways to win, so some staples are fine for closing games if the alternative is equally egregious (ie pickle lock is my on other win condition, morphs aren’t that strong on their own)

@georgedenny9446

5 ай бұрын

*Svella, Ice Shaper, autocorrect got me

I run a fairly fun Monoblue Landfall deck with no counterspells in it. The funniest part is watching all fellas face's waiting for a counterspell that never comes. And yet that deck somehow manages to be resilient and reactive as hell.

For me the only time I've been happy with theme decks is when they have satisfying wincons. If I can't figure this out I usually move on to the next idea.

I don't typically build a deck around a theme perse. I usually build around one of three things: a mechanic, a tribal, or a specific commander. I do have a friend though that plays an ocean themed mono blue deck where the majority of cards are, in fact, themed around ocean creatures or at least have some connotation with water.

with the time deck, i feel like a one of nexus of fate or beacon of tomorrows where you come across it every now and then but never search for them then that really fits the flavour to me, but maybe not for yourself

LOL! Sounds like a recent certain Commander game I saw online where the theme was Un Set, but only a couple of the players stuck to the actual spirit of the build.

CRABS!

I agree with the video, only thing I'd like to add is that the bad feels are coming quite a bit from feeling misled and that that can also be avoided through clearer communication. Rather than leaving it at "This is a crabs deck" add that "it's still running heavy hitters of Blue though so it's definitely not all jank." I think that getting on the same page about decks and powerlevels is a key part of playing (especially with people you don't know), and rather than vague numerics "this is an 8/10" I feel it's worth doing a super brief rundown of "this Turtles deck is go wide deck with big combat finishers but I have some alternate wincons" or "This is my Santa christmas theme deck but the core is Elf-ball with artifacts as the presents"

Hey my Old Age Mutate Ninja Turtle deck with Archelos does pretty much as you described Joey. 😊 The deck actually synegizes kinda well because you can use the ninjas to reuse the mutate creatures and mutate onto the non-human ninjas or Archelos. Plus you have a wide variety of abilities because of the support thags been printed for both themes. Archelos being a stax piece himself makes him a big target though. I resonate a lot with this topic because I love building unique decks. I usually dont include staple cards and try to find other cards that work well and fit the theme I'm going for.

Thank you for this my group was trying to get me to deck out my unicorn deck, and it just did not feel right to do.

Most EDH staples are utility cards. Cyclonic Rift, Fierce Guardianship, Esper Sentinal, Rhystic Study, Smothering Tithe, Teferis Protection, Bolas' Citadel, Blasphemous Act, Chaos Warp, Heroic Intervention, all of these are strong ways to help you protect your things, draw cards, and be relevant. It's so the same argument with Sol Ring, "It's only casual because everyone has one". My friend was like "ugh I don't know how to protect my Allys in my Ally deck. They always get wiped and then I lose", and I was like, "well, play teferis protection", and he was like "but that's not an ally", like....what? That's not sticking to a theme, that's just bad deck building. I'll never judge what people play, but yes, Rhystic. Esper, BoP, Heroic Int, and Teferis Prot are all in my multicolored only Aragorn, The Uniter deck. The decks needs card draw and protection. Cards become staples because they're consistent and strong, and unfortunately there isn't an effect of every type in every color and card. Whether it's healthy or not for the format, if an opponent is playing a specific color, then you should expect to potentially see those cards The card I have an issue with is fierce Guardianship since its literally free. Any deck with blue in it just gets a free gotcha card and that's kinda cringe. I don't feel that way about the other ones because nothing hurts more than a counterspell from a tapped out player

Had a Yasova Temur Theme deck with almost all the cards from the Tarkir Block. it gets destroyed everytime. Now its a good stuff deck.

3:18 Playing a crab deck is a punchline...for your opponents

I run Blasphemous Act and Wrathful Raptors in my Dinosaur Theme Deck because every dinosaur story should end with an asteroid impact.

I personally have a vial smasher and sakashima deck. It is my brothers Yamazaki clone deck and people are often thrown off by the commanders. I play a bunch of tutors in my list to find the brothers Yamazaki and if I have them I use the other tutors to find clones or a mirror box. I always state clearly that I intend to win with only the brothers and what my intentions are with this deck. Which is cloning the brothers. I just found that grixis is a nice color pair for this and I rarely play vial smasher.

I have a few themed decks and like you mentioned in the video the amount of good stuff in the deck kinda depends on the theme. My roman legion themed deck is restrictive down to the art but some good stuff cards fit in there like Ruinous Ultimatum which is a rain of arrows on a battlefield. However, the commander is Licia Sanguine Tribunal who I never cast because there's no life gain support. (Thank goodness for the fallout set coming soon) No one's ever given me side eye for good stuff and I love bringing that deck out for newer players or low power pods but at the end of the day it's just a deck that's inefficient at making 1/1 tokens

I have a taxes theme deck with Liessa as my commander, it is a pretty strong for a theme deck creature dies you loose life, cast more spells I get treasure, and you loose life. The whole game plan is about my opponents actions either making them loose a little something or give me a small benefit. I prefer to do themes around an interesting game plan.

You just inspired me to make a turtle deck

The first Commander Deck I made is a Faerie tribal themed deck that turned into a combo loop deck that can go infinite.

Change the art to match the theme and use mpc?

I think the best themed deck that I have is my simic dnd character deck. its all archer (and kinda snake) kindred, with almost no card draw, no counters and SOME of the good ramp. but everything besides the green ramp and ezuris predation is thematic towards my character and the things that she wore or killed in her time as an adventurer. there are some great named dnd spells from both dnd sets. i like it, and i love the story behind all the equipment behind it. the biggest bomb is Koma, but it applies to something that she faced, albeit at 17th level, but still. im even getting aesthetically themed lands, that im excited to put in the deck. if you have a beloved dnd character, i give you a challenge to make it a commander deck.

You made me want to revisit my sethron deck which often gets stomped on

@nsos28

5 ай бұрын

Same

I've had to deal with part of this myself recently. I made a Glissa, Herald of Predation, Phyrexians deck with only cards from Phyrexia: All will ,be One, and March of the Machines. It's got good variety and support just from those two sets, but one card I always go back and forth on because it's not a Phyrexian, but it's in MOM (technically) and works with both the commander and theme so well: Fynn, the Fangbearer. Helps win in a way the deck already tries to, is from the sets I specified, it's just not the right creature type... It's the only exception in the deck, so I can justify it to myself, and I do make it's presence known at the start of a game (One non-phyrexian you need to watch out for,) but I understand if people don't see it that way.

I had a transformation theme deck. It used planeswalkers to make creature tokens and then I'd polymorph them into big creatures. My restriction was only use cool creatures I would want to transform into. So like dragons, dinosaurs, and sphinxs. But I did use draw spells like Mystic Remora, Rhystic Study and Silvan Library. I wouldn't hold it against anyone who used draw spells to help get a strange theme going. Card advantage isn't baked into every theme

I remember playing against someone’s “elden ring” deck that was a najeela deck for which they simply made custom reskins for every normal najeela card

I find it funny because I just gifted all the crab cards to my friend for christmas, and now we are all building janky theme decks; crabs, turtles, frogs and so on.

I have a coin flip deck that is one of my favorite to pilot, originally I built it to just be straight gambling w/ coin flips and dice rolls but I hit the omniscience trigger on Yusri like 2 or 3 times and my normal playgroup started playing much higher power decks or purposely targeting me when I was playing it. So I transformed the deck to make it less gamble and more good stuff so, in the end, it was my playgroup’s reaction that made me power up my deck with “good stuff”.

Yeah, similarly i want to build a Derevi Commander Commander, like yours. Unfortunetly, Derevi is good stuff

Fun Fact: I’ve also heard “GoodStuff” used to describe teams in Pokémon as well.

:26 Starting off strong in agreement here, Joey. There's this guy at the local game store who many people don't like. What's funny is that he does exactly what you say here. For example, he likes pirates, so he manipulates unsuspecting players to play with him in a low-powered pod with his Malcom-Breeches deck (already a red flag, btw). He runs around 10 cute pirate-y cards, but is vastly ignored by the fact he runs Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb, Gamble, Mystical Tutor, Cracklands with the respective dual lands, and the list of degeneracy goes on. It doesn't stop there, though; when someone tries to pull out a higher powered deck (because 3 people teaming up couldn't stop the guy), he bullies them out of it by accusing them of trying to pub-stomp. I encourage people who complain about him to just not play in his pod, but it is hard to convince people that sometimes "being mean" is very justified. 15:39 I have a remedy for this. What I do in my jank decks with these types of tutors is I just use it as a sifting spell. What I mean by this is I look at the top X cards, where X = 2(CMC) +1 and take an appropriate card, otherwise I fail to find - simple as that.

I ran into this when i was making my “urza and karn’s excellent adventure” deck. If the title doesn’t give it away, it is a deck based around seeing karn and urza at different point in the timeline. So obviously i needed all the urzas and karns i could fit in the deck. After putting it together it became apparent it would be an artifact deck. After looking through the deck I realized i had thrown in loads of phyrexians. That just didn’t jive with my idea of urza. So despite many of the phyrexian cards being really good, i cut them in favpr of the theme.

Yeah NGL, my Dino theme deck was a meme till 2022. New Etali alone tipped it with a few upgrades and now it’s just the best casual deck I own. I’d say it even broke into high power now.

This is why I love Ayula. The commander pretty much singlehandedly makes Bear theme work. Sure, you might want a bit of protection and/or card draw, but neither of these compromises the feel of the deck. The game is still won by making increasingly large bears that maul other creatures as they appear.

So how should i close the game in a gimli dwarf theme deck, because i was using triumph and overwhelming stampede. They are tiny dudes

You have a theme that lacks support, so you combine it with a second theme. You have crabs, so you do mill as the second theme and work with the high toughness to pull it off.

i think the biggest "problem" is during the deckbuilding phase. you would say "of course, when would a player build a deck?": after playing one match. another reason is that wotc made many cards that aren't "cEDH only" but are still extremely powerful in both ways of playing.

The first ever commander game I won was using my Pramikon, Sky Rampart all walls/defender deck. Pramikon is surprisingly controlling as I get to decide who hits who. I use limited enchantments with recursion in case they die as a secondary win condition like all 3 Honden shrines, Propaganda, Animate Wall, Rolling Stones, Fortified Area and the like. The deck needs a lot of card draw to overcome the high levels of junk. The game I won I used Pramikon to maneuver my opponents into killing each other and finished off the survivor with a Wall of Swords with Pemmin's Aura on it and a defender who allows defenders to deal damage with their toughness. No one saw the wall deck triumphing like that. When I get the deck out it makes people smile and they are curious to see how it will go while not running Arcades The Strategist as the commander as he is clearly the stronger choice. People love that I run a wall as my commander, if I were to kill anyone with commander damage it would be the height of hilarity. I plan on getting an Arcades to try a wall/defender build with him in the future but I don't think the deck will be as much fun.

I feel this I wanted to make a chef deck and have a bunch of cheif and food cards, one of these cards was food coma. its a 4 cmc card that exiles another card, I wanted to play it so bad but every time i have had it in hand I just wanted it to be a path to exile or swords. its hard to balance flavour cards and good stuff especially at an lgs where power level varies and while your deck is really flavourfull and thematic there shoving there 20/20 up ur ass while u sit there with a card u cant play.

I'm currently working on a Codie deck themed around the Strixhaven Mystical Archives set of reprint cards, and right now I've had to dip into "generally good big spells" to fill out the list, but I'm really hoping I can come back from that and find better, more flavorful spells to replace those cards.

I built a phyrexian theme deck where everything had to make sense for a phyrexian to have. It’s harder to make a true thematic deck than it may seem

As someone with a charix crab tribal deck and a couple other meme/dumb decks i follow a couple rules when i make them: Dont buy new cards, only use whats in your collection Save your powerful off theme cards for decks you actually want to be powerful Look deep into your commons and uncommons for really cool synergies that are not common Maybe have a secomdary theme that supports the primary theme As few rares and mythics as possible Use as much bulk as possible Make sure you can snicker about it when you play it, you want to find it funny if no one else does And only make it functionable, it doesnt have to be good, just function (eg make your land drops, draw cards, the odd piece of removal, maybe 1 board wipe) So in my crabs deck, i went with all the crabs i could, and hommarids, with an equiptment sub theme, specifically toughness boosters. The wincon is commander damage, my removal are bad bounce spells, sleep and gridlock for my wraths, and i need to up my card draw. But knowing charix, its +×/-× ability is instant speed and not restricted by number of times, so if i boost its toughness, i can sneek in lethal by attacking with an 0/x and flip its stats after blocks are declaired, and the crabby boyz can block all day. A new add i was yhinking of was pinger equipts dor them to pinch my opponents to death. Another dumb deck i have is the WU witch from Eldraine and is as many copies of claustraphobia as possible, that deck is suprisingly good so i might depower it a little, its waaaaaaay controlly and locky, and probably too good for my Elsa jokes.

I realized a few years ago that when people get mad about theme decks, it's because they generally expected a janky creature-tribal deck with little-to-no interaction that doesn't win in any other way than combat damage. My solution to this is to say, "This is my [insert deck theme here] deck. It wins by [wincons] around turn [turn I expect it to pop off]. It has [amount and types of interaction] interaction in it." I've found that this sorts out the salty players who get mad that a deck other than theirs actually has a win condition and puts me in one of two pleasurable situations: 1. I play in a pod that is also playing decks with the ability to keep pace--be that fast or slow--with mine; or 2. I immediately make myself the raid boss at the table where I essentially attempt to 3v1 decks that are lower powered than mine where the players at the table are mentally prepared for it (which is brilliant fun). EDH as a format makes it hard for even a cEDH deck to pub stomp three players that are targeting you simultaneously.

I did indeed make the Nicol Bolas deck a while ago and it's designed to make the player feel like they are doing Bolas-y things and the enemies are facing Bolas.