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@Cliffordlonghead

10 ай бұрын

First

@Cliffordlonghead

10 ай бұрын

Awesome video

@Sabcy2

10 ай бұрын

Of course the real question is, who is closer to the gods, the Zonai, the ancient hylians or the Oocca?

@chrisleedavies3652

10 ай бұрын

I think the hyrule in botw/totk is the new hyrule discovered in spirit tracks

@mokarokas-1727

10 ай бұрын

@@chrisleedavies3652 - Not a bad theory, but anything else goes too as there are references to lore events that never took place in the Spirit Tracks timeline - and vice versa.

Regarding the shrines existing before gloom: The shrines do not exist solely to purge gloom, they exist to purge Darkness. When Ganondorf gets the secret stone, the symbol that shows up translates to Darkness, a clear opposite of Rauru's Light. Darkness exists as a fundamental element of this world, just like Light. Gloom is just the name given to Ganondorf's Darkness powers.

@thekiwikid5710

10 ай бұрын

So as soon as ganondorf reawakens, the shrines of light sense the secret stone of darkness and his darkness and reawaken.

@Sarah_H

10 ай бұрын

@@thekiwikid5710 like the Sheikah tech in BotW that was designed to sense Malice (specifically the Guardian pillars rising up from under Hyrule Castle when Calamity Ganon re-emerges in the flashback scene)

@thekiwikid5710

10 ай бұрын

@@Sarah_H but alliesangalli1757 just explained it

@Gamerman2910

10 ай бұрын

Plus idk if gloom is replaced with something else in the original Japanese text like darkness or smthg

@pipedream2556

10 ай бұрын

But then what the heck is Malice? It's so similar to Gloom yet doesn't count as Ganondorf's darkness enough to trigger anything? The same issue he was talking about still kind of exists

Weren’t the Light Dragon and the Sky Islands above the Cloud Barrier? Since only the GSI was raised into the sky by the old sages, the other islands must have been above the Cloud Barrier. So was the Light Dragon after she transformed.

@DarthTingleBinks

10 ай бұрын

Was just gonna say this. The absence of the sky islands and light dragon in the other games is probably one of the easiest questions from TotK to answer.

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

Indeed. The three Dragons probably went through the Cloud Barrier in BotW, and they successfully disappeared from view. The Light Dragon and Sky Islands were always there from the Zonai era onwards, hidden above the clouds.

@neptuneplaneptune3367

10 ай бұрын

Agreed. We dont know how much of Zeldas conciousness remained when she became a Dragon. But most likley enough that the Dragon knew she had too stay away from Hryule until the Upheavel. Wich was especley important as Zelda knew the Calamaty COULD infect the Dragons with its malice. Better not risk herself getting corruptet so better too stay aboce the cloud barrier where NO ONE can touch her.

@DarkAngelBluejay

10 ай бұрын

Oh good. Someone said it. Now let's hope Bandit sees it.

@magica3526

10 ай бұрын

we even see the cloud barrier be lifted with our own eyes...

The sealing spike that Ganondorf hit with gloom at the beginning is what caused the shrines to emerge, and also caused the Upheaval. You can't get a good look at it in the game, but the 3D model reveals a lot more. The sages also only raised the Great Sky Island, a lot of the other islands were already up there. As for why they weren't seen in BOTW? The cloud barrier (first shown in Skyward Sword). The upheaval made some islands fall, but it was Zelda (as the Light Dragon) that pierced the cloud barrier and made the sky islands visible from the ground.

@ImaginatorVT

10 ай бұрын

However Rauru took Link to the Great Sky Island, yet he doesn’t remember the Great Sky Island ever being on the sky. So I guess his hand followed the Great Sky Island’s location as if it was following a GPS

@StormsparkPegasus

10 ай бұрын

@@ImaginatorVT Yeah, it was explicitly razed by the sages AFTER Rauru "died" sealing Ganondorf. Maybe his arm was just capable of teleporting to the Temple of Time, no matter where it was, and he was off a little bit due to the place being in the sky, and that's why Link landed in the chamber of awakening.

@crimsonstar6247

9 ай бұрын

@@StormsparkPegasusJust an FYI, “raze” means to completely destroy, while “raise” means to lift up.

@StormsparkPegasus

9 ай бұрын

@@crimsonstar6247 Yep I know...I did the second post on my phone so autocorrect messed it up.

@cansan9403

5 ай бұрын

That still doesn’t make sense in the context of a closed timeloop. If Ganondorf made the shrines rise, they still shouldn’t be visible in zeldas memories.

One clue you may have skipped over is the stone plaque located at the end of the escape tunnel designed for the Hyrule family. It states that the castle was built there specifically to seal the demon king below it, which would mean the history of Gannon being sealed would have to have been passed down the royal family.

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

If the castle was placed to keep _this_ Ganondorf permanently imprisoned this pretty much confirms that Rauru's Hyrule CANNOT be the very first Hyrule from before The Minish Cap as we know that past Hyrule Castle have been _destroyed_ and replaced in later games.

@spustatu

10 ай бұрын

That's my problem with this idea, too.

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

Let's be honest, it was more likely passed down the Impa family. They've been the top secret keepers as well as the head of the Sheikah since before Hylia reincarnated herself. As far back as TAoL, Nintendo have relegated the role of lorekeeper to Impa's line.

@SailorYinYang

10 ай бұрын

@@javiervasquez625 I've discussed this with some friends and we've come to the consensus that Rauru's Hyrule is the second/third Hyrule. First is the one from Minish Cap onwards and through the Child and Downfall timeline. Potential second is the New Hyrule founded by Tetra after Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass. This one, with Rauru and Sonia is A Hyrule but not the first Hyrule. Given the sheer timescale we're talking, multiple versions of Hyrule could have risen and fallen given that the events of all the other games are so far in the past that they are considered myth.

@Gaawwdd777

10 ай бұрын

@@SailorYinYangAgreed I subscribe to this theory more than any other because otherwise nothing else works. It's all so far in the future (and possibly with merging timelines, due to Rito/Zora coexisting) that everything else we've seen in the series is long gone and into the realm of myth.

Personally, I think the Kingdom of Hyrule seen in BOTW and TOTK is not the same one seen in almost all previous Zelda games. At some point in the Zelda Timeline, the Kingdom of Hyrule fell, and some time after, the Zonai came and Rauru founded a NEW Kingdom of Hyrule. And it's not like this theory is that much of a stretch. In the adult timeline, the Kingdom of Hyrule sank below the sea before the events of Wind Waker, then Link and Tetra founded a new Kingdom of Hyrule in a distant land after the events of Phantom Hourglass. So, I think my theory has a lot of ground to stand on.

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

Except it is a stretch as it's not titled "new" and Rauru is unaware of a prior hyrule. The thought never crosses his mind that Zelda could be talking about a prior already known hyrule. What's really happening is that all other Zelda games are just legends told in this hyrule and there isn't a timeline. The very fact that Rauru is a zonai gives evidence to this (the legend that is OOT was wrong in this detail)

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

100% agreed with this conclusion. 👌 You're not alone in believing in this new Hyrule being a *soft* reboot.

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

​@@lenk8374 ¿Why would Zelda be talking about a "prior" kingdom when she herself has NO IDEA that previous kingdoms existed? Neither Rauru or the current Zelda know that past Hyrule existed in the long past which is why neither of the 2 ever even _questions_ their certainty that the Hyrule they both know is the only one that's ever existed. Same thing with this new reincarnation of Ganondorf who's clearly NOT a predecessor of the one from Ocarina of Time otherwise he would have known about the _Triforce_ and the fact it was sealed within the Sacred Realm as per the *human* Rauru having sealed the relic there for safekeeping.

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

The silence of Zelda and Rauru on a prior hyrule is evidence that there wasn't a prior one. To say there's another hyrule prior is clearly eisegesis.

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

@@lenk8374 Dude do you realize what you just said...? _"If a 5 year old boy who's never gone to Italy tells me Italy does not exist then it must true... right?"_ Just because they do not *KNOW* that past Hyrules didn't exist (how could they when Rauru's race only arrived to the surface thousands of years _after_ the previous Hyrules disappeared and Zelda is just a 20 something girl with _limited_ understanding of her kingdom's History) that does not mean they DIDN'T. That's not how it works and i'm baffled that you made up this "argument" without actually thinking it through. Unbelievable.

6:46 actually, Gloom DID exist before TOTK as mentioned by Zelda at the start of the game. This is because after the great calamity, the castle was almost completely destroyed, which disturbed the seal and allowed gloom to spread through Hyrule and for Ganondorf to awaken

@Darkbboy_

10 ай бұрын

🤓 umm actually

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

¿Don't you mean "Malice"? That's the predecessor to Gloom back when "Calamity Ganon" was a thing.

@KingZorLink21

10 ай бұрын

@@javiervasquez625 no I mean after BOTW and Before TOTK

@KingZorLink21

10 ай бұрын

@@Darkbboy_ ya I am a nerd

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

I would have hoped that's common knowledge, that Link and Zelda went tunnelling through the castle due to the sudden influx of Gloom.

It's the Ganondela effect. Some people believed that the sages attempted to execute Ganondorf at the Arbiter's Grounds, when obviously the Sages tried to pummel him in a dank cave at the center of Hyrule.

@mokarokas-1727

10 ай бұрын

lol

The sky islands and the light dragon were already there in botw, just obscured by the clouds There is even an npc in one of the stables in botw that talks about the sky islands, if you talk to that same npc in totk they comfirm that the sky islands can be seen more clearly now

My personal belief is that the roots are a direct result of the shrines. Think about the shrine as a seed (even has the shape of it and its planted on sacred dirt) and the roots growing downwards from it. When the shrines dissapeared, the roots dried up and its only when Link uses the light stone when they get their light back. The shrines also magically appear, they dont emerge from the ground like sheika shrines so its obviously just magic

Why the assumption that Rauru and Sonia's founding of Hyrule was the *first* founding of Hyrule?

@catalyst539

10 ай бұрын

Finally, another who understands.

@bagofshhh

10 ай бұрын

It’s at least the third founding of Hyrule by my count.

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

Because that makes sense.

@igor78965412320

10 ай бұрын

cause its all fake. its a fairy tale. link does not exist. this may just be a story they wanted to tell disregarding the other games

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

@@bagofshhh maybe fourth, if the incorporation of the other races under one banner after the Civil War before OoT is included alongside New Hyrule.

I don´t think this is an alternate reality, I think the events very much still happen in our known timeline, but not before OOT as some may think, instead I think it is a re-founding of the kingdom long after all the games we knew from the timeline, where those events became nothing but myth and fairytales, and the kingdom of old faded from memory. Rauru would be the First King of that new kingdom of Hyrule. It wouldn´t be the first time a new Kingdom of Hyrule would be established either (Spirit Tracks) The Zonai of the time long before Rauru was even born, whom created the sky islands, knew of the existence of past heroes of Hyrule, and possessed relics and tunics of them which they placed in chests in the depths, with old maps being located on the sky islands, islands which not even the Rito could reach on their own as told to us by the Stormwind Arc song, so they were left untouched for countless years. The Forgotten Temple, which was already built by the time of Rauru's kingdom, was also built with the purpose of recording and preserving the history of the fights against Ganon and the generations of heroes across time. There's the fact that Ganondorf is the only Gerudo of his entire tribe who has the characteristics of Ocarina of Time gerudo, that being yellow eyes and round ears, whereas all the other gerudo of his time possess pointed ears and green eyes, a very distinct detail, specially given Creating a Champion told us a common belief was that they developed those ears from mating with Hylians. It is possible that this is still our Ganondorf, the same Ganondorf from ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, wind waker, etc. It would explain why his features are those from OOT. Not only that, but BOTW and CAC very clearly state that Calamity Ganon was the same Ganon from Ocarina of Time, and TOTK Ganondorf spawned the Calamity. Then there's the Rito, who can´t exist before OOT and TWW since the Zora would evolve into Rito after OOT. There's a lot more, such as the Bridge of Hylia existing in Rauru's era when it was not built until Twilight Princess, being non-existent in OOT or TMC, but to not make this comment longer than it already is, I'll leave it here. I made a video about the placement of this game a while back.

@BanditGames

10 ай бұрын

I remember seeing your discussion on this topic somewhere, maybe on Twitter or discord. Honestly I don’t see why it couldn’t be a new Hyrule entirely like you’re saying. The geography of Hyrule shown in the past cutscenes definitely indicates this is the case. Shenanigans, I tell you.

@UltimateTobi

10 ай бұрын

I am in full agreement (except the part that TotK Ganondorf is OoT Ganondorf). It'd be weird for Gerudo to have pointy ears (TotK memories), then round ears (OoT), then pointy again (BotW & TotK). And the geography to be only consistent between TotK memories and BotW & TotK but different in all the other games. (Sure, could be handwaved away with "gameplay", but I'd think it'd make more sense to have that one consecutive span of time with all the other games having played long, long before the memories of TotK.)

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

No. There is no timeline. All other Zelda games are Legends told in this hyrule. Some things in these legends might be true (like the sages and Rauru), but somethings might not (rauru was actually a zonai and founded hyrule).

@UltimateTobi

10 ай бұрын

@@lenk8374 In short: lore and plot don't matter. And BotW's and TotK's added lore and plot won't matter a couple games down the line. That'd be unfortunate.

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

While i disagree with Zelda Lore's belief that the Ganondorf seen in Tears of the Kingdom is the _same_ Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time due to his clear lack of knowledge of the _Triforce_ and the omnipotent power it grants for him to shift attention to the less powerful secret stones i do wholeheartedly agree with his research which makes a very compelling case for the Zonai to have arrived in the surface *after* the timelines ended and the old kingdoms of Hyrule vanished from History. It simply wouldn't make sense for the Zonai to have arrived before Ocarina of Time as the geography, Lore and history does not add up with what happens in between the imprisonment of this Ganondorf and the arrival of the Era of the Wild.

Starting with the appearance of the new dragon and the sky islands: as others have proposed, they could have been hidden behind the Cloud Barrier, which we do see the dragons utilizing in BotW. And Zelda, while she may have lost her memories and self, seems to still have some cognition of her mission while in dragon form, and would thus know to stay above the Cloud Barrier until the events of the Upheaval in order to maintain the timeline. As for the Shrines of Light, I think there's actually an even easier explanation: They appeared when Rauru's seal broke. It would make sense if Rauru had to summon all of his light powers in order to keep Ganondorf sealed. As the shrines are clearly products of his power, Rauru's singular focus on the sealing of Ganondorf could have caused the shrines to disappear. As they are so clearly connected to Rauru (and/or his arm), I don't think it's a stretch to think that he was constantly manifesting them until his focus was required elsewhere. This would also cause them to disappear once more after the end of the game, so if we do see a threequel, I wouldn't be surprised to see the shrines not present. Moving onto the actual timeline inconsistencies, I personally think there's one of two possibilities, based on what we see in the game(s). The first possibility is that the Hyrule we see Rauru and Sonia in is not quite as old it is implied to be. The map is obviously the same map as BotW, so definitely the same land, but the fact that the Rito exist implies that these events take place after Windwaker (or that this game rewrites the history/evolution of the Rito). Taking place post-Windwaker is supported by Rauru's crest bearing a striking resemblance to the Rauru from Ocarina of Time's face. If this is the sequence of events, then the Hyrule that Rauru and Sonia founded would be a Hyrule that came into being after the waters from the Great Flood had receded. The Ganondorf we see would then either be a reincarnation of, or somehow revived from the stone statue, the Ganondorf seen in previous games. It wouldn't be the first time we saw an incarnation of Ganondorf that was not physically the same being as the one from Ocarina of Time (if memory serves, Four Swords Adventure's Ganondorf is canonically a different one). Considering the King of Hyrule in WW specifically wished for the land of Hyrule to be washed away, Rauru and Sonia would not be incorrect in thinking they were the first king and queen of Hyrule, as this would be an entirely new kingdom of Hyrule, mostly unrelated to the previous one. This would also explain the lack of any evidence of the Zonai prior to BotW, as they hadn't appeared in Hyrule prior to the events of WW. The other possibility I see is pretty much the opposite. Perhaps the time is far longer than we may be thinking. Somewhere in the span of millions or billions of years. This is basically my "Wheel of Time" theory, where the cycle is much more important to the history of Hyrule. We've now seen two instances of Ganon/Ganondorf being successful in his conquering of Hyrule, resulting in the utter destruction of the kingdom (the events preceding Windwaker and the events preceding Breath of the Wild. I'm not counting the downfall timeline because while Ganondorf does obtain the full Triforce, he's still sealed before he can use it). I think it could be possible that the cycle has the smaller cycle of the hero, but also a larger cycle of birth, growth, and then destruction. Within each larger cycle, there could be multiple cycles where someone with the spirit of the hero rises up against someone with the spirit of Demise, but the larger cycle will always start with the establishment of a new Kingdom of Hyrule, and end with its utter destruction. This theory also cleans up the mess of the current official timeline as we know it, as they could be the outcome of an identical smaller cycle within the context of a different larger cycle (as in, the downfall, child, and adult timelines all exist on the same timeline, but are separated by eons).This could explain so many things, including map discrepancies, apparent historical inconsistencies (two different Imprisoning Wars?), as well as (from a game dev standpoint) giving the writers a bit more freedom when trying to place games in a cohesive timeline. It would also open the lore up for more interpretation. How many of the creation myths of Hyrule are accurate accounts of events, and how many of them are previous heroic cycles that have been mythologized into something unrecognizable over time?

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

100% correct on this Hyrule been a _new_ kingdom after the old ones disappeared after the end of the 3 timelines. The evidence presented across both Zelda's Memories and openworld gameplay make a strong case for this Hyrule to be a "successor" of previous ones just like the current Link, Zelda AND Ganondorf. Your second paragraph is spot on.

Guess the thing I’m happy about if the timeline merge is the canon theory is that it means many of the last villains are still alive in the era of wilds, meaning villains like Veran, Onox and Vaati could make a return.

@Diamond_Aura

10 ай бұрын

Ah yes, Vatican, the villain of Minish Cap

@Joz1996

10 ай бұрын

​@@Diamond_AuraThe Picori sure don't like swiss guards

@DjDeadpig

10 ай бұрын

@@Diamond_Auragoddamnit

@hardcorevictor2552

10 ай бұрын

I personally do not wish a specific villain return, I wish the return of the Twilight Realm and somehow, Midna.

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

They didn't merge. They just didn't exist. All other Zelda games are legends told in this hyrule. Some of the things that happened may be true, some might not. All legends have some truth at the core of them

The floating islands were always above a sky barrier. the same sky barrier that we see dragons flying into in BOTW, when they appear to enter a portal. A similar portal appears when they fly into what is presumably the depths (since they also fly into the depths in TOTK). We even see the sky barrier being dispelled at the beginning of the game right before jumping from the great sky island(maybe it wasn't this exact moment, it could have been earlier). This explains why the people below believe they appeared out of nowhere. This also happens to match the existing concept of a sky barrier from skyward sword where, from below you can see the sky, but not any sky islands.

The kingdom Rauru and Sonia founded doesn’t have to be the same one founded between Skyward and Minish Cap. Hyrule could have fallen long ago and Rauru and Sonia could have founded a new Hyrule. Similar to what happened in the Adult Timeline. Hyrule was flooded, and a new Hyrule was founded be Link and Tetra.

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

Except it's not called "new hyrule" but just hyrule. Rauru doesn't seem to know anything about a prior hyrule otherwise he wouldn't be so puzzled by Zelda being the princess of hyrule. Also Rauru turns out to actually be a zonai. This means OOT was wrong on that detail. There is no timeline. All other Zelda games are Legends told in this BOTW/TOTK. Some parts of these Legends are true and some aren't (like with Rauru for example)

@mattdekker5693

9 ай бұрын

Or you guys can just accept this game is a massive retcon and stop trying to connect it to other games. I can literally feel the hatred Nintendo has for zelda theory youtubers just playing this game with how inconsistent it is, even to itself.

One point of contention I have with the idea that Zonai stuff only popped up after the events of the Upheaval is that we know for a fact that Zonai architecture existed in Faron back in BoTW.

They do actually explain that Ganondorf is the secret the Royal Family was keeping. A tablet in the tunnels underneath the castle say that it was built for the purpose of keeping him sealed. I think it's pretty clear from the text of the game that the sky islands, Shrines of Light, Light Dragon, and even the caves (since Misko hid all his armor in them ages ago) were always there, they were just... hiding. But it never explains _where_ they were hiding or why no one could see them. It never explains what the Upheaval was or why it made the sky islands, caves, Shrines of Light, and chasms reappear. It's like it's just an excuse for them to have all these new things in the world without having to explain their sudden presence, but they didn't realize that they still _did_ have to explain their presence. It just seems like they don't care about storytelling anymore. Even the environmental storytelling from the first game has been neutered. Now there's TWO Temples of Time for some reason, and a lot of locations that were clear references to places in the old games no longer are with TotK clearly being intended as a reboot. I don't mind it being a reboot (that's a lie, but ignore it for now), except BotW clearly treated the other games as canon. It wasn't just locations. Some of Ocarina's sages were mentioned by name, and the Zora History tablets explicitly reference the events of Ocarina. Those tablets were all changed in TotK because I guess Nintendo was hoping you'd forget about that explicit confirmation of canon. Now it's _impossible_ for any pre-BotW game to be canon, given what we see in TotK, which creates a really weird disconnect between BotW and its direct sequel that's only amplified by the world suddenly having new things in it with no explanation.

Hyrule Castle was intentionally built where it was to keep anyone from disturbing the seal on Ganondorf.

@UltimateTobi

10 ай бұрын

Which means TotK's past cannot be between SS and OoT, because the castle moved or got destroyed several times.

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

@@UltimateTobi ^ This. 100% confirmation: Rauru's Hyrule does NOT predate previous Hyrules from the Era of Myth.

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

Ganondorf taking over a castle with Ganondorf underneath it, and Ganondorf just remains there when Ganondorf is defeated. Nothing unusual or illogical about that.

@justarandomguyontheinterne681

9 ай бұрын

look up thr parallel reality timeline theory, makes sense to me. Basically its a new timeline All thr "ganondorfs" were just malice puppets

@javiervasquez625

9 ай бұрын

@@justarandomguyontheinterne681 The _Stone Tablet_ underneath Hyrule Castle in Tears of the Kingdom outright *CONFIRMS* that the castle built in the Era of the Wild was SPECIFICALLY BUILT to keep TotK Ganondorf imprisoned making him a *REINCARNATION* of previous Ganondorfs. That said how could a "parallel reality timeline" exist when Nintendo has never _confirmed_ it's existence?

My theory is that the sky islands were always there, but we just couldn’t see them. But some people can. I think this might be a possibility because there is this kid in botw at a stable (I forgot the name, it is near the lost woods) and he says that he sees sky islands, and that only good kids can see it. But when the upheaval happened, then every one was able to see it.

My theory is just that the past where Zelda goes is between the end of the chronology we know and breath of the wild, perhaps that would explain why the most of the lore in botw and totk does not fit with the original chronology. Perhaps the zonnan went down from the sky after the original chronology ended between that and botw.

The sky island and the light dragon weren’t visible because of the cloud barrier that we saw in botw that the dragons would go through. They only became visible after link completes the great sky island and the light dragon breaks the cloud barrier, letting link descend from the sky and also letting those below see what is above. As for the light shine, the probably just came up out of the ground after Raru activated the first one, or when the light dragon broke the barrier. Or seeing as the blessing shines seem to be in some weird pocket world thing, they could have just came out of that after what ever the trigger event was.

I feel like most of the things you point out about the closed loop could easily be explained as Zelda and Co setting stuff up to align with what she knows. The islands that get raised, are raised after she dragons herself up, and they are kept separate by the sky barrier. I'd have to go back and check, but I got the vibes that the light shrines can be summoned by Rauru, so it's entirely possible they can be hidden by him too.

Also you have the time loop wrong vis a vis the sky islands. The sky islands only become visible when link is lifted up to into them.

Which boss was your FAVORITE in Tears of the Kingdom? (HINT HINT for the next video...)

@Cinnamon7

10 ай бұрын

Demon King Ganondorf.

@PeekinBlyne

10 ай бұрын

​@@Cinnamon7Same

@catalyst539

10 ай бұрын

The Master of the Secret Stone

@zeldafan6124

10 ай бұрын

Yeah Ganondorf was a cool fight

@DjDeadpig

10 ай бұрын

Demon King Ganondorf all the way, though I wished he resembled a pig a bit more just for old times sake.

I believe that kind of timeloop is known as a 'bootstrap' loop. Is similar to the timeloop in Lost.

@orpheusgrotto

10 ай бұрын

Yes. Lost's first five seasons is just a giant bootstrap or predestination paradox fixing itself, as we are shown the full self-consistent timeline in a non-linear order. There's even an argument to be made that the bootstrap paradox is actually larger than this, and the sixth season is also part of it. TOTK is arguably the same, that is to say, the minor islands and the Light Dragon were always in the skies, hidden behind the cloud barrier all along BOTW. And there's some magical or technological shenanigans happening with the disappearance of Sheikah tech and the sudden reappearance of Zonai Shrines.

I'll refer to Thinking At Max Volume's timeline video(s). As for the shrines, if you look closely, the shrines seen in the memories are in different locations. So they either moved in accordance with the plan or got built afterwards. Sky Islands and Light Dragon could be obscured by the cloud barrier that has existed since SS. Transparent from below (makes things invisible above), partly obscuring from atop.

@Sarah_H

10 ай бұрын

The shrines around the Temple of Time (the ones we see in the Molduga Assault memory) could've been raised along with the Temple. The entire landmass has since shifted in the sky and is no longer above the Great Plateau, so the shrines around the Great Sky Island wouldn't be in the same place relative to the Temple of Time that they were in while on the ground

DLC should clear up the final details through Zelda's point of view. Otherwise, that's a missed opportunity!

Since Kotake and Koume's names in one the Gloom blade, I would like to see this iconic Legend of Zelda foe Twinrova to be brought to Tears of the Kingdom for DLC Either as a boss for the playable Princess Zelda with the Ancient Sages or with Link accompanied by the New Generations of Sages. Thus, conclude Ganondorf's story as we get to explore his own origin so many Zelda really wanted to see.

Interesting theory. I have personally wondered if Sonia's time power merged into the shrines doesn't have something to do with their appearance. I mean, you don't need Time magic to fight evil, you need the Light magic. So perhaps her time magic allows for these shrines to reappear when most needed. It doesn't explain why they didn't appear in the Calamity, but it could explain their appearance now. As for the sky islands, I have assumed that the sky barrier has always been a think separating those islands from Hyrule. Then Ganondorf's actions weakened the sky barrier and when Link needed to get below the Light Dragon finally broke the sky barrier showing all the islands in their true glory. This could explain how the Light Dragon and the sky islands stayed hidden this long. We already knew the other dragons would enter portals to another realm from the sky in BotW.

I’ve always believed that the Light Shrines fell from the sky just like all the other smaller islands. This would make sense considering the shrines seem to act more like portals rather than a physical entrance to a closed space. It also makes sense considering the existence of the crystals, which seem to just be shrunken-down versions of the shrines that you deliver to their pedestals.

Whoaaaa. I'm glad you're back on KZread, love your theories and you're frickin' hilarious!

So nice to see your face again Bandit! Very interesting video, I love speculating on Zelda timeline ahah

A re-foundation of Hyrule in the unification of timelines. That would explain everything. They started afresh with queen Sonia and king Rauru, but they unearthed the older relics in the process.

@victorceju

10 ай бұрын

And that would also explain why do we have Ritos in the foundation of Hyrule when it's implied they were an evolution from Zoras as Windwaker implied

BotW and TotK fit perfectly into the timeline after Windwaker. The depths are old Hyrule lost beneath the waves, the new land above was created by the second Great Deku Tree, and the Trifofce is still buried somewhere in the depths (old Hyrule) where Ganon’s Tower was located. In fact, it could be explained that the Zoni mining unearthed the master sword in the stone and Raru unsealed Ganondorf when he removed the sword. 4:50 As for the closed time loop, there’s a little girl at one of the Stables (I think southeast Hyrule field) in BotW who states she can see islands in the sky but no one else can.

maybe changes in the past (like the zonai islands and shrines) takes some time to 'reach' the present and affect it?

Cloud barrier. You literally see the Light Dragon parting the clouds to expose the land below when you first get to dive off the Great Sky Island. It's why you can't see Skyloft in Skyward Sword despite there being clear blue skies on the surface.

Everyone talking about the TOTK timeline either alludes or outright states that the era Zelda is sent back to takes place before Minish cap. To me, it seemed clear from the game that this era of Hyrule founding actually takes place *after* all the other Zelda games (besides BotW). This new Hyrule is one of many kingdoms with that name and its founding by Raaru and Sonia is just another part of the ‘inevitable outcome’ that Nintendo said BotW took place in.

I love that Tears of the Kingdom is bringing so many theories out about the timeline placement. I remember about 2 years ago that there was a theory that the Ganondorf from Tears of the Kingdom could be the Ganondorf from Twilight Princess due to the Ganondorf from TP having a scar on his chest, the same place Raru's hand was where he was trying to hold back the gloom and it didn't help the fact that when the game FINALLY came out and in that first cutscene when Ganondorf says Zelda and Link's names and Zelda is shocked to hear that and I was too! That scene really had me thinking that THAT Ganondorf was from another timeline somehow and it made this game that more chilling.

I think the explanation is simple, just not merging realities. If it's a closed timeloop, that means Zelda was well aware of what was to come between Ganondorf being sealed and his reawakening. Thus, the defenses she and the Sages prepared for the eventuality that would be Ganondorf's reawakening were designed such that they didn't conflict with what Zelda knew of Hyrule's history pre-Upheaval. The Sky Islands and Light Dragon? They were raised so high up that they could not be seen from even the highest peaks of Hyrule. The Light Dragon in particular doesn't even fly low enough for Link to reach without excessive Zonai engineering until he speaks with the Great Deku Tree about the Master Sword's location. The Shrines of Light being absent until the Upheaval? They were "reprogramed" to go into hiding and stay hidden until the Upheaval happened as to not conflict with the history of Hyrule's defenses that Zelda was all too familiar with. Zelda knew that in the interim between Ganondorf's sealing and release that Calamity Ganon would ravage Hyrule a couple of times and those attacks would be dealt with by the Sheikah and Hyrule's chosen Champions, so the defensed prepared for Ganondorf's release were set to intentionally ignore those threats as to not create a paradox, even if Malice is a weaker, self-driven form of Ganondorf's power. It ultimately comes down to Zelda being smart enough to avoid creating a time paradox.

Dear Lord. One of the kids in BOTW actually TOLD us that there were sky islands up there. And yes, the Light Dragon was up there all this time - just not visible. The same way ALL of the dragons are not visible down in Hyrule....... "Alternate reality" is not a "simple" solution. The problem isn't even there to begin with. Your dismissal of the shrines popping back up when Ganondorf raises the castle is basically just an opportunity to pleasure yourself with a ridiculous "theory".

@catalyst539

10 ай бұрын

Said kid was most likely referencing SS.

I now believe my theory is correct, Tears of the kingdom implies that all games prior to BoTW follows the unified timeline theory because ganon becomes a demon king after the establishment of the first kingdom

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

Ganondorf's army are post-OoT Gerudo. He is not the first Ganondorf (since they evolved green eyes and pointed ears after the defeat of OoT Ganondorf) and this is not the first Hyrule.

@neptuneplaneptune3367

10 ай бұрын

Eeehhh its also possible hes just a reincarnation. Its not like it would be the first time Ganandorf reincarnatet, he did so fore Four Swords Adventure

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

@@neptuneplaneptune3367 exactly what I'm getting at. This one is another birth of Demise's hate, after the others.

This Zonai "founding" simply has to be after all the other games. Gerudo being green-eyed and pointed-eared is a significant post-OoT evolution, and that's what the Zonai era Gerudo are. Also, Rito are post-WW. Zonai clearly don't appear in any of the other post-OoT games we see (due to the Ganons we see and lands we're on), so everything from TotK, BotW and AoC simply comes after every other game. And don't forget that Sky Islands and the Light Dragon were above a *Cloud Barrier* which is essentially impervious to all but deities.

@catalyst539

10 ай бұрын

Ignore AoC, it’s not canon.

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

@@catalyst539 well, yes it is. It's just *another* timeline split. The Champion successors and Tulin were taken into the new timeline created by Terrako, honed their skills there, and got returned to their own timeline and time after, with more fighting ability and personal development. Why do you think the Secret Stone theme is a remix of the AoC victory theme? It's because AoC was a major leg of their development (even Tulin, who has his gusts start here as Tulin's Tornado) and becoming a Sage is the culmination of their journey. Why else would Nintendo pay such specific attention to the story and details instead of leaving it to Koei; a story that slots so perfectly into the BotW saga and explains how the Champion successors got to where they are now no less?

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

@@xinpingdonohoe3978 (sigh) Here you are spreading LIES and BIAS all over again... I swear to you i was gonna give you a like to agree with _everything_ you pointed out regarding the timeline until you brought Age of Complete Disregard for Narrative Coherence making me stop out of a sudden. No way i'm supporting another A.J Thomas into spreading more misinformation and emotional bias after all the mess that's been happening since Tears of the Kingdom came out.

@Ahouro

10 ай бұрын

@@xinpingdonohoe3978 No AoC is not canon and i know that because it do not appear on the canon timeline on Nintendo´s Zelda timeline page.

@catalyst539

10 ай бұрын

@@xinpingdonohoe3978 The AoC victory (mission complete) theme is a remix of the Blight Ganon victory (defeated) theme in the first place, which may I remind you is from BotW, the game made before AoC. That logic doesn’t stand. Edit: Before you attempt to prove me wrong- you cannot. What I said is an actual fact.

thanks for the new video!!!

I've had the theory since the game came out that Demise's curse caused a time loop in itself, hence why Sages & the Imprisioning war are events that pop up more than once, and why so many different races & civilisations have founded the kingdom of Hyrule, each loop has slight variants that change but the core of the curse, a chosen hero and godess descendant fighting an evil force is always always present, even if the evil force isnt always ganon, or the sages arent always there,

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

I believe the same as you regarding a "loop" although my interpretation of it does not involve a literal _time_ loop like the one seen in Tears of the Kingdom but rather "magical" loop which makes specific events repeat themselves across a singular timeline as an act of the Demon Tribe's curse to forever torment the Hero and the goddess by never allowing the kingdom to thrive and develop. Basically Ganondorf prevents the kingdom from advancing as a civilization forever keeping it stuck in a perpetual cycle of conflict with no end.

Rauru’s arm magic didn’t just keep Ganondorf at bay. It also kept all the shrines hidden until the moment they would be needed, i.e. when Link and Zelda encounter Zombie Ganondorf. When his arm magic ended, everything it was suppressing (that wasn’t apparent in BotW) came to be.

I believe that the Zonai formed in all three timelines separately and each used the Triforce together to merge the timelines after the events of the other games. They then had to establish Hyrule again. This would explain why the ancient Hylians have much longer ears than the present day ones, a detail that is not present in Skyward Sword. This could also explain how the Zonai created replicas of armor from games that took place a long time after the original creation of Hyrule. (or possibly even managed to find the actual things considering that they did have access to the secret stones including one that had the ability to manipulate time.)

Dang I didn't get notified you posted a video. Better late than never ig. Always nice to see you upload. Especially Zelda stuff 🙌🏼

Since from a developer's standpoint they pretty much already endorse it; Aonuma already confirmed the original Hyrule Warriors is set in another universe whilst having a circuitous connection to the timeline, and Miyamoto from an interview in 2011 stated that it would be much easier if the series could abide by the primary narrative of the franchise (i.e. the perennial connection between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf) under the tangent of using "any setting" without restriction from a rigorously strict continuity. He also mentioned in 1999 that the primary explanation behind Ganondorf's origin, at the time of Ocarina of Time's release, was structured around the Triforce which, basically, if you look at the thematic transition of most of the core games in the timeline since A Link to the Past (I don't know if you care enough about the Zelda timeline to notice the major premise it revolves around) they are based around the historical events of the Triforce, with Ocarina of Time essentially being the fulcrum behind the split timeline that carries that same narrative premise of the Triforce into other games that follows after it. In that very same interview he says he isn't satisfied with what Ocarina of Time provides about how Ganondorf ultimately became the way he is (i.e. his position of being one of the three main characters of the trio) and hopes that future games will provide some clarity as to how he got that position. In a 2002 interview, Miyamoto mentioned that very same premise of just the Triforce story anchoring the timeline can become stale and boring and opts to switch things up. Couple that with what he wishes for in 2011 about the relationship between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf being inset "in any setting", along with him not being satisfied with Ganondorf's origin story in Ocarina of Time, and it roughly translates to Miyamoto wanting the story of the Legend of Zelda to be as flexible and versatile as possible with no strings attached; just maintain that Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are eternally bound to one another and everything is set. Well lo and behold, Skyward Sword gives us that origin story of Ganondorf's position in the trio with Demise's existence: "the abstract embodiment of evil that transcends time as an absolute existence." Demise declares that very existence is forever etched into the interrelationship between Link, Zelda, and his hatred for all time; one that isn't necessarily bound by the Triforce narrative. Also Y'know what? Fujibayashi in an interview about a month ago specifically stated that this connection between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf in Tears of the Kingdom is a new one, new as in outside of the Triforce story but is still axiomatically bound to Demise's proclamations about himself from Skyward Sword which all in all honors Miyamoto's wishes about the story of the Legend of Zelda being flexibly cohesive to an all encompassing narrative without too many restraints in the continuity. Now that's from the developer's perspective of giving precedent of a multiverse, in-game there's already virtually solid confirmation that a multiverse exists, with Termina in Majora's Mask and Lorule from A Link Between Worlds being parallel worlds. Moreover, there's a supplementary source from the old Zelda.com that insights the Gods actually created a multiverse at the dawn of creation; stating that "Termina is but one of millions of worlds" they created at the absolute beginning. So yeah the elements of the multiverse are definitely there and Tears of the Kingdom's Bargainer Statues has a pretty strong potential link with something the original Hyrule Warriors (which is set in another universe) introduced in regards to other dimensions, but I won't get into that here.

I saw someone named bioalpha say it was a parallel reality timeline coexisting or something with evidence and im convinced keeps the og timeline canon and has a new canon timeline

I think TotK's past wasn't actually the founding of Hyrule, which explains how Ganondorf wasn't sealed during the older games. The cloud barrier explains the sky islands and light dragon. As for the shrines, Ganondorf was still sealed during BotW so there was no need for them. They appeared when Ganondorf reawoke because they were actually needed

I think malice is just a less concentrated version of gloom. The gloom that poured out to make calamity Ganon would’ve had to wait awhile for the rest of the gloom, and subsequently aged and became malice over time. Gloom is present in TotK because this is a fresh outburst of it, not one that took ages to form.

Yay! New vid. Like 10 minutes AGO I checked if there was a new video and it said no. So cool.

I believe that Rauru and Sonia’s Hyrule is a different Hyrule to the one seen throughout the series pre-BOTW and that some great schism took place towards the end of of the three timelines that merged them back into one and all history of the original Hyrule was lost due to it’s destruction then the Zonai descend upon the baron land, all die out minus Rauru and Mineru the past of TOTK and BOTW and then the present of TOTK take place

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

Nintendo got rid of the timeline yet people will do any stretch to clink to that timeline

regarding the whole gloom vs malice, my theory is that gloom is malice on steroids that has been supercahrged by ganondorf's awakaning

I have been thinking at the very least that TotK having the previously “amiibo only” items be findable in the overworld (and even making the mazes be talking about some things like the Phantom Ganon armor as a “otherworldly evil”), that maybe they’re trying to say that TotK just has many worlds bleeding into it. Unless you consider all those things non canon, including the mazes and the “rulers” of owls, boars, and what not, the evidence could suggests that TotK Hyrule is just one Hyrule of many; a separate world where legends of the others bleed in because small objects or maybe even temporary portals open to come from one to another.

@wace9174

10 ай бұрын

Honestly I just think they are easter eggs it wouldn't make sense that the goddess sword and master sword exist at the same time, the fierce deity set isn't just a mask, there are two sets of the wild in totk and botw, and many other instances that contradict the timelines merging

@Diamond_Aura

10 ай бұрын

@@wace9174 I think you misunderstand me. I’m saying a theory slightly different from what Bandit proposed. I’m saying that in essence TotK and BotW are their own canons, but that things that happened in other games essentially “leak” into TotK’s through multiverse shenanigans. However, this allows us to say that not every single detail has to line up with the old Zelda timeline because in essence, Hyrule’s history might be different in TotK’s world than in, say, Skyward Sword, even if there is many similarities and some thing (like the existence of Fi) may be the same in both worlds. Also, there have been past theories about multiple master swords (such as in Wind Waker), so if those have any ground to be made then it’s not impossible to say “could Hylia make a second goddess sword”.

@wace9174

10 ай бұрын

@@Diamond_Aura O I understand now mb

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

Or they're all legends told in this Zelda and those legends got some of the details wrong

@Ahouro

10 ай бұрын

@@Diamond_Aura Botw and Totk is in the same canon as the rest of the canon games.

As a first time viewer, I agree with your points. They’ve written themselves into a corner and felt the need to expand the mythology in ways that are not considerate of the previously established lore. It’s kinda like the comic book industry never being able to nail down their continuity. So instead of expanding on previously existing lore, it was easier to just wreck what was already established and create new magic relics and macguffins.

I have an answer that works but is iffy. The era of hyrule that rauru and Sonia founded are thousands of years after the last game on the timeline. Thousands of years caused hyrule to be destroyed somehow or fall into ruin and be forgotten. Making rauru now the “founder” of hyrule. Could explain why the zonai stones seem to “replace” the triforce in some ways, due to hylians turning away from the goddesses.

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

It may be iffy, but it's the only answer that works, so we say that it's correct.

After growing up with Back to the future i believe from what we saw on the cave drawings Zelda already went back in time before she went back in time and it altered the future outcome to create a timeloop. When she went back in time she told the sages to warn their descendants so that may have canceled breath of the wild entirely or overlapped it.

If any of the stones powers are transferable, even residually, it could be that Ganondorf was able to warp some of Sonia's time powers. Malice then could cause time vacuums on BotW, and Gloom causes them in TotK. Only plot hole there - how did Ganondorf from Sonia's reality absorb all of OoT's split timelines with Malice?...

Maybe the Light Dragon and the Sky Islands were really high in the sky but came down after Ganon returned because the darkness drew them closer.

This is my theory 1. Ganondorfs gloom is just a powered up malice because the calamity weakened raurus seal so maybe more of ganondorfs power leaked. 2. The reason we cant see the sky islands or zelda is because there above a cloud barrier similar to skyward sword seen how zeldas dragon form breaks it after link gives the master sword to past zelda and the dragons in botw flew into the sky creating a portal in the clouds flying through it. 3. The shrines and geoglyphs are now visible due to the upheavel similar to how caves are now visible. 4. Rauru is not the first king of hyrule due to the fact the rito exist in the past zelda traveled to and previous zelda games according to the timeline the rito didnt exist. Also if Ganondorf was sealed underneath hyrule castle since the beginning of the timeline why do other incarnations of demises hatred exist if one of them is still alive, unlike vatti and demise who was trapped within swords possibly another dimension totk ganondorf wasnt and was still active as we can see with calamity ganon. Speaking of calamity stated by impa "calamity ganon has returned time and time again" why is he not active in previous zelda games. I think Rauru became the new king of hyrule after four swords adventure, maybe hyrule was abandoned or its history forgotton which would explain why Rauru doesnt know anything about the triforce or master sword unlike previous rulers of hyrule.

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

That's because the other Zeldas are legends that might not actually be true.

@wace9174

10 ай бұрын

@@lenk8374 bruh

@Ahouro

10 ай бұрын

@@wace9174 He likes to spread misinformation.

Darkseid is a multiversal entity in DC Comics. Venom also operates as a multiversal hive mind. Who's to say that Demise's curse doesn't give Ganondorf the capacity to puncture realities and cause them to collapse on each other?

I found even more evidence for this theory: 1. Where is all the shiekah technology? Especially the shrine of ressurection and the divine beasts? 2. The teleport medallion we can find in totk is just a prototype? But we already used it in botw. 3. Robbie tells you that he invented some of the functions you can unlock for the purahpad 4. The leviathan in the desert is now in a cave? How the heck did this happen in just a few years?! The list goes on and on

BOTW & TOTK placement is so far into the future it makes every previous installment myth and legend. I'm pretty sure this is nintendos way of either making a more cohesive timeline for future zelda games or a way for them to not have to worry about which of the three branched timelines to place the next installment.

Thank you for the video

The reason we don't see the sky islands in BOTW is because they're beyond the cloud barrier. Which we see dispersed by the Light Dragon in TOTK.

Absolutely this. To put it a different way, The events of the Zelda universe occur in a timeline in which Zelda does not go back in time. When she does go back in time it creates a different timeline. But since the timeline breath of the wild and tears of the Kingdom take place in is a convergence of all timelines, It just pretty much gets added to reality instead of another fracture timeline

Something that wasn't mentioned here but I think is an important piece to your puzzle is the monument in the royal escape tunnels under the castle. I can't remember the exact wording but the jist is that the hylians built the castle over where Raru remained, sealing a great darkness away. It is explicit when it says that the castle is crucial to keeping this great evil sealed, and should it ever be disturbed, it would weaken and break the seal. This tablet to me indicated that Ganon was always down there and it was recorded in a place only the royals would know of. It also explains why we don't see gloom until after the calamity, because the castle kept all that in place, and the moment it's disturbed during the Calamity, the less powerful but still deadly malice escapes first, then gloom as the ruins of the castle can no longer keep Ganon in check. It's also important to note that when the calamity struck, malice exploded from under the castle, where Ganon was trapped. This aligns with Gloom. We see in the depths that gloom has been snaking and smothering everything in its path, indicating to me that it's been building up for a long time. Gloom is so developed down there that it's formed gloom roots, most of which lead back to the castle and to Ganon himself. These roots may have fed him while he was sealed, allowing him to build enough power to manifest the calamity over and over, enough for it to become tradition and anticipated. But when the castle was disturbed during the last calamity, that was enough for the Gloom to snake its way out of crevices and wells and start hurting citizens. There's also the intro to take into consideration. We know that Lookout Landing has been in construction for a while, meaning the royal bunker was known about and utilized. The secret passage had been sealed but it would make sense for the bunker and passage to be connected at some point, and then sealed for an unknown reason. It's also noted that Zelda knew of these passageways under the castle leading to Ganon, but didn't know what was down there. Both of these things were here before the upheaval, history of the castle literally written in stone, and these things could've been discovered by anyone. This series of events is consistent between the two games, which indicates to me that if Ganon did collide AU's, he did it at the founding of hyrule under Raru. Or there's something we're overlooking that better fits this into the same world. It's really hard to tell since Nintendo gives us the freedom to speculate.

I think that raru knew this day would come, when he sealed himself with Ganon the shrines magically vanished because they were no longer needed. When Ganon is discovered and his hand is no longer sealed it awaken his spirit and he called upon his shrines of light to aid with banishing the darkness. To boil it down the shrines we're magically bind to him without his power of light they don't exist.

If it wasn't the first kingdom of Hyrule that was founded, it could take place after Ocarina of Time and a previously destroyed hyrule is founded again not assuming this is a completely new Ganondorf. The absense of zonai tech before the upheaval could have been programmed to only appear only when the seal breaks or something along that line.

The theory we've been waiting for, thanks for the great videos

I honest;y think that the best explanation is that Zonai time exists as the first thing that happens in the timeline at all, even before skyward sword. The forgotten temple having close resemblance to the sealed grounds, the fact that the sky islands weren't raised until after the events of the past, and the suggestion from Zelda at the very beginning of the game that the ruins are "older than even the era of legends," tells me that this is what the developers meant. Hilaya in the story of skyward would be the first descendant of Raru and Sonya, and all the attacks on the kingdom of hyrule would be amalgamations of Gannon's malice. meaning the demon tribe's curse is more of gloating "Ganon boi downstairs is still alive, so good luck with that." it also means that the master sword is very likly to be a self-fulfiling prophecy, because Zelda came back obsessing over the sword, they ended up making one. and every hero and princess could have been named accordingly to assure that the hero link would defeat Gannon. (so yes, I think it is a closed loop and all the stuff that is in totk was simply hidden above/below the surface.)

Bandit!!! Good to hear your voice again! You aren't the only one who basically no-lifed this game. My X-box feels very neglected.

@mr.awesome6011

10 ай бұрын

Having no life has never felt this good

A question I’ve had for a while (it doesn’t have anything to do with lore or timelines): Why weren’t the depths completely flooded with lava during Breath of the Wild? In BOTW, Death mountain was completely flooded with lava, and as logic would suggest, liquids fill up their containers from bottom to top. It’s obvious that Death Mountain on the surface and Death Mountain in the depths are connected (you can dee the lava from the surface flowing down into the depths) so the Depths had to have been full of lava. Heck, Death mountain isn’t the only place that had lava; Hot springs had lava underneath them too. It’s an interesting question if I do say so myself but I don’t think it’s explainable at all.

Breath of the Wild is a nexus timeline where all other timelines eventually converge. That’s why we can find relics from the Link’s from all the conflicting timelines in the depths. All of Hyrule’s branching history has coalesced into one timeline again. I also think it’s a convergence of worlds, that’s why there’s Majora and the Fierce Deity masks from Termina, Rabio’s hood from Lowrule, and the Fused Shadow from the Twilight Realm, it’s all collapsing in on itself. I think if this ends up being a trilogy that the next game will be Crisis on Infinity Hyrules type story and it’ll revolve around a set of conspicuously absent triangles

I figured an alternate reality myself, but an alternate reality needing with the world we know is an epic theory! I just figured they re started the timeline with a reality that had echoes of the world we knew but wasn't the same

I will continue to say that the Sky Barrier is the ultimate reason why we never see any of the floating Zonai ruins or the Light Dragon. We know in BotW that the dragons disappear into the sky through what look like a vortex. Now I know people will say, "but there isn't a bunch of clouds blocking the sky" to which I will say, play Skyward Sword and go to the surface and look up. There is zero cloud cover and you can clearly see blue skys and the such, just like BotW. This easily explains and allows the closed time loop to exist. For the shrines, that's a lot harder to explain, but I am sure there are plenty of theories out there to explain them.

The light dragon breaks the cloud barrier upon completion of the great sky island. There’s a whole cutscene, it’s pretty obvious.

I’m curious on how will Ganondorf and the Light Dragon (Zelda) will fit in the Age of Calamity alternate timeline. 🤨 🤔

@mrbiscuits001

10 ай бұрын

It all depends on whether it actually is an alternate timeline, we don’t know yet as Nintendo hasn’t confirmed anything. But in it’s own reality, I imagine that there isn’t a light dragon, because the calamity was stopped early, Zelda would never go and find the seal in totk and thus would never travel back. Considering the calamity is still in Aoc, the imprisoning war still happened probably just not in the manner we saw. These are just my thoughts though 🤷‍♂️

This merging thing could explain my take on this whole timeline

My theory: The 3 timelines did merge. The Goddesses each ruled over one. Din ruled Downfall where Ganon won. Nayru ruled Child where Zelda was given the knowledge & wisdom to dash all Ganondorf's plans. Farore ruled Adult where a new champion of courage rose despite the previous Spirit of the Hero being completely removed from the Timeline. The Goddesses also determined the fates of their champions, using this fact to mess with each other and their responsibilities. This got to be a problem and so the merge had to take place to resolve this. This resulted in a new history that includes most notably a fall of Hyrule. The Rauru of TotK then founded HIS Hyrule. Then Zelda left the present then returned via dragon life span.

Would also explain why there seems to be 2 types of Zonai now. The barbraoan tribe and the King Rauru type

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

The barbarian type may be the first Zonai, who made the oldest Zonai Ruins of Faron. After a while, they advanced and spread.

Simpler explanation: It's all part of Zelda's plan. The shrines appear because Zelda wanted the shrines to appear. The shrines were not needed in the past after Ganandorf was sealed and Zelda knew that the shrines would be needed after Ganondorf came back, so she and the other sages made the shrines disappear until they would be needed again. Maybe that was necessary to allow the shrines to survive all those thousands of years. The shrines did not appear in Breath of the Wild because Zelda knew that the shrines were not needed to defeat Calamity Ganon. The same applies to the sky islands. Zelda somehow had them sealed away somewhere inaccessible for thousands of years, but then brought them back for Tears of the Kingdom because she hoped they would help Link defeat Ganondorf. Zelda had all the time in the world to prepare everything she could possibly think of that might in any way help Link in the future.

i would be wiling to believe this is outside of the zelda timeline if it wasnt for the past Hero clothes you find in the depths

If the Sky Islands can float, they can be moved. If they can be moved, it's possible they were elsewhere in the world beyond the country of Hyrule. Since Sidon's wife is a Zora from another Domain outside of the Hylian one, it posits that there is more than one country in the world that Hyrule exists in. Someone else mentioned that Ganondorf's powers are of Darkness, and that Gloom is, as far as we're shown, how the Gerudu, Dragon, and Demon King form of Ganondorf's Darkness powers manifest. Calamity (which looks an awful lot like a shadow version of the Demon Dragon) Ganon's powers manifested as what people called Malice (which works like Gloom, but without permanently withering health from those that come in contact with it). Remember that what people call Gloom and Malice are just what the people of Hyrule call things they don't know the source of or understand fully. It's just a name they give it. It's not an official name of the powers present (which TOTK suggests should be "Darkness" based on the symbols on the Zonai Secret Stones). It can be a fully closed loop (which in it of itself is a paradox, but I digress) in TOTK. It is also possible that by simply going back in time, Zelda inadvertently created an entirely other reality, a la the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics. It is also possible it's just a writing snafu. It's also possible Ganondorf purposefully colided realities, although I'd say a more far-fetched one based on previous games. Or, now hear me out, Nintendo doesn't give a shit about the timeline, and BOTW and TOTK exist in their own separate reality that isn't connected to anything other than by loose threads and, offhand, fan service-esque references to previous games.

I think it's fair to say that in a universe where magic and time travel are real legitimate things that can happen, accepting weird things happen with time and the merging and shattering of timelines is the only thing that makes sense and also conveniently excuses any confusing lore things in the process.

Theory: A ganondorf from one of the three timelines discovers his past and future fates across all other timelines, collects the complete triforce and wishes to rule over all them to reverse his fate. Leading to all timelines combining which I dubbed “The Great Convergence”. Link and Zelda defeat ganondorf with help from their other counterparts by destroying the triforce, nearly wiping out the combined hyrule. The few survivors slowly begin to rebuild by some leaving to the skies while others stayed on ground. I’m time the events of Tears and Breath transpire.

I personally think that since the Hylians and constructs of the past didn’t know about link until Zelda told them, in the botw timeline the shrines of light and most zonai structures were destroyed and the shrines of light were replaced by sheikah shrines. But in the totk timeline where Zelda goes back in time, the shrines of light were kept in hyrule and the Zonai structures were raised into the sky for link.

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

Both the Sheikah Shrines and Zonai Shrines were _hidden_ bellow ground until it was time for the Hero to venture into them. As proven through Purah's Pad been handed to Mineru and some of quests in Tears of the Kingdom the Ancient Sheikah took many of the technologies brought by the Zonai and _copied_ them to invent their own technology which would eventually lead into the Divine Beasts and the many Guardians built to fight against "Calamity Ganon". The only reason why we don't see the Zonai Shrines in Breath of the Wild yet it's because Rauru's Seal on Ganondorf hadn't been broken yet and so the Shrines had no reason to ascend from beneath the surface to assist the Hero against the newly awakened Demon King.

@superpandastudios8138

10 ай бұрын

Well it could go either way except my theory is more likely because nobody ever talks about botw in totk, hinting that breath of the wild never actually happened in that timeline.

Whats is this rainbow laser in 5:34? The Divine Beasts lasers weren't RED?

@GoronMerchant

10 ай бұрын

They were red and blue

@fabriciodelesderrier2646

10 ай бұрын

@@GoronMerchant I could bet they were red before shooting a blue laser.

@xinpingdonohoe3978

10 ай бұрын

​@@fabriciodelesderrier2646 they were red, then the actual beam is blue. But some people have created mods to make the colour of the beam, well, you can see what.

@briofhyrule

10 ай бұрын

It’s from a mod

Convergence theories. I love em

Your theory is interesting but the zonai are already present before the merge of timelines, as zonai structures are in faron and the labyrinths exist in breath of the wild.

I have said this before, but my personal interpretation to the weird lore has to do with Demise's curse, which I believe to be more similar to the Cycle of Fire from Dark Souls. I believe that the whole world is trapped in Demise's curse, not just his hatred, the spirit of the hero, and the blood of the goddess. This is backed up by other characters and themes repeating, such as impa, rauru, koume, kotake, and the parallels between totk's story and oot. This means that the hyrule in botw/totk is not the same as from the previous games, as the kingdom itself is bound to the cycle. I believe that the previous Hyrule fell at some point, which led to a new one being created by a new Rauru, which it is stated that oot's Rauru founded the first Hyrule. I also believe that a timeline merge akin to a dragonbreak from the Elder Scrolls series occurred, which explains why so much from all three timelines appear in the two open world games.

My theory: Zelda travels back to events in between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap. While Ganondorf is sealed Kotake and Koume incarnate his soul into different vessels: The other 2 Ganondorfs we see. Zelda created a closed loop but only for two timelines as the child and downfall timelines eventually reach a similar point but due to the events in the adult timeline there is a version of ToTK Zelda flying around the sky unaware Hyrule was destroyed in a flood.

The only way the events of tears of the kingdom work is if you slap it at the end of all the previous timelines. I know not a lot of people consider Hyrule warriors cannon but I like the explanation that MatPat gave: the events of Hyrule warriors merged all the timelines, and then from there start the events of TOTK, allow another 10000 years to pass, then BOTW happens. It’s really the only way the timeline can make sense.

The way i see glooms sudden appearance is that gloom is ganondorfs power, while malice was his pure rage leaking through the seal.. what do you think

We see that the recall ability doesn't respect causality so I think it makes sense that the loop started when zelda picked up the stone and it became a time stone. Essentially, once a stone holds the power of time, the user is no longer bound by cause and effect. So even Before she went back in time, she was able to change time without affecting herself, but the universe will respects causality even if zelda doesn't. This means that, because she will go back in time, the universe enters a loop after she picks up the stone. That's why Ganondorf has memories inside the loop.

The only way the “founding of hyrule” makes sense is that is not the same hyrule from post SS

I love this take on the timeline placement! my personal theory is that hyrule kingdom of king rauru was founded long after the distant past (the pre-existing timeline) and all events in Botw and Totk take place after then. It seems to me to be the simplest explanation, which would also explain why the hero's tunics are found deep underground (presumably from geological activity over 100000's of years) with the exception of the wild tunic set which i guess is just another cool tunic for this era's hero to find. Hopefully, any new Zelda game will shed some light on this "new chronology" and hopefully what is going on with the triforce. love the videos and i hope to see more!

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

The simplest explanation is that there is no timeline and all other Zeldas are legends told in this one

@dakotadean1273

10 ай бұрын

@@lenk8374 that is the ultra simple solution

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

Spoiler alert: The Triforce is currently _inside_ Zelda as confirmed recently by an editor who removed the _light_ coming from Zelda's right hand during the scene where she's reforging the Master Sword revealing a the *Triforce symbol* embedded on the back of her hand. Zelda HAS the Triforce within her spirit.

@javiervasquez625

10 ай бұрын

@@lenk8374 Source or stop spreading misinformation and lies.

@lenk8374

10 ай бұрын

@javiervasquez625 "The kingdom of Hyrule has a long, long history, so long in fact that the events leading up to it's founding and it's early years HAVE FADED I TO Myth. Hyrule's recurring periods of prosperity and decline have made it IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL WHICH LEGENDS ARE HISTORICAL FACT AND WHICH ARE MERE FAIRYTALE.“ -Creating A Champion

I have two things I've noticed in TotK that I think people have been making assumptions about without looking at the details that may not match the assumption. First, Zelda did not recall the Master Sword to her. The Master Sword did that. The Pedestal in the Sky Temple of Time where Link and Zelda trade the Master Sword is a Pedestal of Time like the one from OoT. We know the Master Sword was probably somehow made with the power of time. It can not only open of Gates of Time, but can also put someone to sleep for seven years and then casually recall them back seven years when they need to do something. Time shift stones also recall time back bit for a localized area. At the Temple of Time over top the Pedestal in the back of the Temple. The Master Sword once again recalls time just like in OoT... just only on itself and not Link. This is different from Zelda's recall ability we see used which is based on Sonia's ability. It is however, identical to the recall that Zelda uses to get to Rauru and Sonia's time. Second, I think there's one assumption that we make about the founding of Hyrule that may or may not be correct. Why does it seem like Rauru and Ganondorf only know about the Master Sword through Zelda? Shouldn't the blade of evil's bane, the sword that seals the darkness, the Master Sword be something they've heard about before? Where is the Master Sword in the distant past? Still in the Sealed Grounds? Is there a reason Zelda didn't attempt to track down the Master Sword in that time period? Who knows, maybe Rauru could have pulled the blade... or maybe there was a hero in the distant past who could have. Why wasn't the Master Sword considered in the Imprisoning War? The assumption is... was the Master Sword and by extension the Spirit of the Hero not something that existed in this Hyrule at that time? Is this a time period before or after Skyward Sword? We know that SS was the oldest Zelda story ever told, but we also said the same thing about OoT when it came out. Is there a possibility that Demon King Ganondorf and the Imprisoning War happened before the forging of the Master Sword? Maybe Demise was just another symptom of Demon King Ganondorf being sealed in the Depths. Just one of the earliest versions of a Blight or Phantom Ganon created by the malice escaping from Ganondorf's Secret Stone. It seems unlikely, but Demise's Curse wasn't even a real curse so much as a warning that he was only the beginning, the first seeds to sprout from the unholy plant growing in the Depths. This second thought is mostly there to challenge the time-frame because at any point Nintendo can decide to usurp SS's placement as being the earliest point in the series (because at one point that was OoT's placement as well).