Hello, Jim. Me again. This is a great video. Um... Besides kite size and windspeed, I think the thing that has the greatest affect on line strength is knots. Knots! Aargh! I did some scary tests last year using sacks of sand and various strengths of my favourite 8-strand braided Dyneema (dacron sea-fishing line), and although the lines came up to spec with regard to their claimed breaking strengths, tying knots in them made a HUGE difference. I don't recommend anybody tries such tests, by the way - a synthetic line doesn't just snap under load, it explodes. A 300 lb line failing is quite frightening, even with safety goggles on. I tied and tried lots of knots: most of the hitches, the full- and half- blood knot, the overhands, the figure-of-eight, as many of the classics as I could remember, and even a few dodgy made-up 'granny' knots. I won't go into detail here because I don't want to hog Jim's Channel, but the main point is that a single knot - just ONE, if badly chosen - can reduce a line's strength by over 50%. Yes, FIFTY PERCENT. It's worth mentioning that more knots = more weaknesses (which is why it's not a good idea to use any anti-twist swivels in a long line). Gentle knots with smooth bends (such as Jim has recommended before in his other videos) give the best results, with a strength-loss of around 12 to 15%. The soft curves of a doubled-over figure-of-eight knot are particularly good when forming the loop that will attach to a pig-tail. Ideally, (for a single-line kite) this is the only knot any line should have in it. Anyway, that's one reason why kite people go for 300, 500, or even 750 lb line for a kite that may never develop more than 60 lbs of pull; it's to provide a decent safety margin for knots (a safety-factor of 8x is good, but it depends on the steadiness of your local flying conditions). A thicker line is also much more pleasant to handle without heavy gloves. Knots aren't a problem in mild conditions, but a sudden gust can snap a light (and thus thin and more wind-efficient) knotted line with ease. Kevlar [aramid fibre] line is its own worst enemy, by the way - it's horrible, hard, slippery, yet incredibly abrasive stuff. Knots in kevlar keep on self-tightening indefinitely under load unless they're pre-sleeved in a soft polyester sheath. Under extreme tension, knots in kevlar actually 'melt' right through themselves. I'm working on a video to demonstrate how knots affect line strength, but it may take a while to set it all up again. I suppose I should have filmed the original series of tests, but I wasn't really in the video-making mood last year (and Arthur kept pestering me about chocolate Hobnobs).

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Pete, for that information, and I'll certainly look forward to the video when you make it, and I'll put a link on here to it. Knots are certainly something I should have mentioned, but as you know I keep things as simple as possible in that regard. Carry on the great work!

@lorv8628

6 ай бұрын

On an 8 meter octopus, what line should I get? After reading your very helpful advice, would 200 lb--even 300 lb--be good?

Other than gusts, one important thing that also need to considered is for conditions like during "user errors" or "can't be avoided" cases, eg the wind suddenly picks up when you are launching and you are just 1/3rd to half-way bringing the kite up (with the kite being anchored). I encountered once before, i could not bring it down as it was pretty gusty and even a 3.5mm line was like trying to cut through my gloved hands, and instead of continuing to let it up (less pressure on the hands), i just let it go at the 15m mark away from the kite on a 50m long line. The kite shot upwards as well as a slack was induced on the line, so the kite also went backwards as it went up. It hit the stops and the impact load of the Tadpole 20 broke the 2000lb line (it might not be truly 2000lb, but even though it's probably no less than 1000lb). This is even though i have sleeved the knot like what you'd do for stunt kites so that the line at the knot has a turning radius much wider than its diameter so that it has better strength. For kevlar, dyneema, even flying at 50-60m the 3% max elongation might not account for much. Even polyester might not account for much (iirc 6%?). Climbing rope (nylon) with its > 10% should be better, it's built for such scenarios ie to break falls. You can watch this. 5900lb nylon rope survived, but 20,000lb dyneema broke. Now i know it's just a very short length of rope, but the basic concept is there. kzread.info/dash/bejne/iXh90Y-Qis65kbA.html&t But before anyone goes out to buy climbing nylon ropes, it's very heavy + pretty large in diameter. So whenever possible, avoid those user errors. :)

Glad to see you back, Jim--and with such an informative video, too! I see you had some wind..I hope it was a fun day flying.. :)

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

All that was filmed ages ago, Priscilla, and only edited yesterday, but I do hope to be back flying next week. Sadly, the lady I was helping care for died last week (funeral was two days ago) so my duties are at an end.

Well done Jim on explaining simply a topic that can become very technical.

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

As you know, Carl, I know nothing of technicalities - I just fly lots of kites!

Jim you are now my favorite KZreadr keep up the good work!👍🏽

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I'll try - I've been very busy the last couple of months but may be back to regular flying soon, weather permitting of course.

Very informative Jim! Thank you

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it, Nigel. I hope you're having fun.

Thank you for the advice Jim, been waiting for someone to show some actual numbers on pull strengths for multiple kites, appreciate you taking time for this and all your other vids, they're very inspiring and really helped me get into and build my collection of kites, as well as feel safer flying them. I appreciate the oddities of the sky such as my skeleton, baby trilobite, 40ft cobra, 5 meter octopus, and soon to arrive 7 meter octopus. Going to go for the tiger parafoil and that rainbow monoflow Hengda delta next. I like to keep it safe and use 150 lb line for mostly all these guys.

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Meiumi. That line sounds good for those kites, and it's certainly always good to have a safety margin.

@meiumi9456

5 жыл бұрын

@@JimNicholls I have been wondering though what kind of kite reel you prefer, the carding reels, the yo yo reels, or if any, the mechanical winding reels? Where do you usually get yours from?

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

I have always used hoop spools, as you may see sometimes in my videos. I bought most of them from Into The Wind years ago, although a few have come from other sources (Picture Pretty Kites mainly). They are simple, which I like, and quite durable.

Helpful Jim. Will have to try that under normal wind conditions here to see what's taking place. I fly mostly with 500lb line for 16 sqm trilobite, but the jellyfish seems to pull much harder.

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

My most-used lines are probably the 300 lb ones, Michael, but the JF certainly merits 500 lb in a strong breeze. It pays to err on the side of safety, as no-one wants to lose a nice kite.

One more thing to share, for those who are flying kites for "altitude", ie high up and also far away, do factor in the drag of the wind on this very long line, even though it might be very thin. A kite might only pull 1.5kg at beaufort scale 3, you use a PE fishing line that breaks at 6kg. You have sleeved it such that at the knot it seems very large, so very large turning radius, 6kg breaking strength at the knot. You fly it at 700-1500m at a remote part of the country even though the line slacks a fair bit at the part that's closest to you (line drag). It might still break, coz at higher altitudes there might be higher winds, and any gusts isn't going to be felt much by the user due to the long length (a lot of elongation).....so the stresses at different parts of the line at different altitudes It happened to me before.

*with no reel answer! 😜 Good video. I find that overkill is usually recommended and I generally stick with that trend. I have yet to regret it.

@JimNicholls

3 жыл бұрын

Overkill is fine, unless you are trying to launch a kite in light wind, when the extra weight and drag of a too-heavy line can make a big difference.

Like You, I usually go with the Mfg. suggested line unless it's way too heavy for the winds & then I'll use a lighter line or just launch a different kite. I also err on the side of caution more often than using a lighter line!

@JimNicholls

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, safety is important, but using common sense instead of adhering blindly to what the manufacturer or someone else suggested is the best way, as you have obviously found.

A very informative video Jim. Thanks for the tips for line strength? Do you have a video for correct line length?

@JimNicholls

4 жыл бұрын

Line length is whatever you want it to be. I have 250 feet of line on most of my reels, but seldom fly above 150 feet. I have a couple of longer lines for the times when I feel the need to fly high.

I think your text at the end sums it up nicely.

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks, David. It's a very technical subject, but I'm not a technical person so I try to keep things simple.

Thanks for this one! Now when I get asked about lines I'll point them to this video. Great observations from 2100BLF.

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

I think the comment from my friend Pete ("something in the air") is very pertinent, too. Knots are undoubtedly the weakest part of a line.

@mrlionel1965

5 жыл бұрын

Ever since I saw that video of the BOL breaking the line, I switched all of my knots to figure 8s. I don’t have anything really big, but some of my kites do pull quite hard. I use minimum 200lb for most of them. I think I am ok with that.

Informative video, thank-you! Any line-strength recommendations for someone getting into kite aerial photography?

@JimNicholls

Жыл бұрын

That depends on the kite you're flying, the wind speed, and the load you're lifting. For a whole lot of expert advice, see kapforum.org/discussion/ .

Thank you for the information. Now I will do the same with my Kites, because I think that my lines are too big and I can fly with smaller lines.

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

That might be true, but be careful and allow for wind gusts or you might lose your kite!

Another condition similar to what i have described is with misbehaving kites in very turbulent winds with down drafts....depending on your area's particular local meteorological conditions and terrain. Depending on whether you have a dedicated pilot kite kinda parafoil or the Ma Qing Hua various versions of soft kites which can also double up as lifters, my thinking is that you also might encounter in which the kite might dive straight down, so what happens is that this also induces a condition in which there is a loss in height and also slack in the kine. If it so happens that the lower level winds are gusty/strong, it might inflate again and a similar condition exists.......it would shoot right back up and also extend backwards, giving a sudden impact force. That might break the line. One last condition also can exist, a thicker line can withstand more abrasion, it might account for something if you are flying dyneema and you are flying in a regular kite field with other pax with poylester, china tyre line, kevlar even. Unless you always conscientiously check the line for cuts and stuff like that. So a 2000lb line might not be sufficient for a kite recommended to fly with a 2000lb kite, depending on what kind of accident conditions may occur. The Tadpole 20 actually is recommended to do a 1500lb line and i was flying with a 2000lb line, and seriously when i was saying "strong winds", over here it usually means beaufort scale 3 to gusts of BFT 4 ie 12-19km/h gusting to 25)....... though that is somewhat rare here, i guess that is pretty common in Jim's location. heh heh...... (i think when you guys say strong wind, it means 50-70km/h)

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Your conditions in Singapore are much more volatile than those we get here, so I think more safety margin needs to be built into your choice of line. We often have days when the wind barely changes all day, and can get away with lower margins. You have much more knowledge of the technicalities than I do - I just go by experience, which I've found can be quite a good teacher although there's always more to learn!

If you have experience with 2 or 4 line powerkite/foils or revs, you'd also know the characteristics of the power window and that a foil when flying at high speeds can actually generate immensely higher pull then a similar sized pilot foil at static. So a stick kite/foil when flying or "misbehaving" in the powerzone would generate a fair bit more pull. See how my Trilobite 65 is misbehaving in this vid, sometimes it might even dash quite fast from side to side thus generating even more pull than expected. This can happen and can be detrimental if you get some surface gusts due to some meteorological reasons. At my location, i am further not blessed that sometimes we are flying over water/sea. kzread.info/dash/bejne/en6u2rCYdLupqLQ.html

@2100BLF

4 жыл бұрын

@Christopher Moss I have tried flying the Trilobite 65 solo as well in various winds (smoother winds, more turbulent, low winds and higher winds), long story cut short it flies best below 15km/h winds and begins to misbehave in higher winds. Even my purple/yellow 65 version is not the "original" version. The fabric is quite different from say my Tadpole 20 (the Ma Qinghua one which he asks the factory to do). Unfortunately there are also quite a bit of physical and logistical constraints at my usual flying ground + i don't drive.....so no luxury of flying higher without taking risks. Many people asked me to do that just fly it higher better winds etc, but it's usually they are not the main pax retrieving 5kg worth of nylon plus 26 metres of dual tails in conditions hitting 40 deg C heat index, luckily in the past many of my pals have helped, but still there is a possibility might be too difficult. "Crashed" it 3 times before, it's quite a chore to retrieve it as it's not an open space and some parts are restricted spaces which i cannot climb into and razor sharp concrete which would spoil lines in a jiffy even if you have the manpower of friends helping to pull it up from the pool or reservoir. If i have the luxury of wide open space here i'd just fly it out with 95 metres of line and let it sway and misbehave a bit and be done with it. :) I usually use my 4.5mm chi-nema (11g/metre) of around 4000lb with the 65, just down to preference. Easier to handle though overkill for my conditions. I do have 2000lb 3.5mm kevlar which i sometimes use during light winds of BFT 2 and not when it's not expected to be a windy day/season. PS. My tadpole 20 is a much better flyer, have flown it with 90m of line before towing laundry, no issue.

Jim, are you using braided 2mm diameter line on those big kites?

@JimNicholls

3 жыл бұрын

I always use braided dacron line. Twisted line is not worth buying. The strength is dependent on the wind at the time, but I buy my line in measurements of breaking strain, not diameter. 300lb is my most commonly used line for the bigger kites, 500lb if there's more wind or a lot of loading on the line (line laundry).

What kind of kite line were you using for the ultra foil 30

@JimNicholls

4 жыл бұрын

300lb braided dacron.

Jim, my Pink/Black and Blue Conyne, from Weifang Hengda, arrived today. It came in a nice short bag inside a short box. It is a bit harder to assemble than I imagined it would be. The leading edge spars had to be connected, both are housed in the kite. I could not push them all the way down to the end of the edge as I would normally do with a delta kite, but it didn't seem to hurt the flight any. The rear trailing edge where the tails are connected do flap a bit. The horizontal cross spar is in three sections, very tough span, the kind with the red thread with two tie off points. The three vertical spars, two have to be put pushed and put together inside a sleeve, flexed a bit and pushed into pockets. The middle one, fixed in place inside the nylon box, is in two pieces and the joint point is really loose fitting. There were two pieces of line attached to loops at the points where the spar pieces slide into the box. I assumed you tied them together to hold the spar together. That didn't work well at all, so I attached a small swivel to one of the strings , put the vertical spar together and attached the swivel to the opposite loop, this pulled the material tight and holds the spar joint together. Its a good looking kite, nice material great colors. It flies well in light wind. I suppose the kite assembles this way to keep the package short for e packet shipping. Its a big kite for such a small bag , it works, but I would have preferred to not have so many joints. cloud.video.taobao.com/play/u/17379906804/p/1/e/6/t/10301/68755042.mp4

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Sounds as if you sorted it all out well, Derrick. I think we'll see more of this as postage gets more expensive and sellers try to economise by making the kites pack down smaller. Not good, but the alternative of higher prices is not good either!

@derricksrandomviews

5 жыл бұрын

@@JimNicholls I agree Jim. That is one of the advantages of buying a soft kite, like a trilobite. It can be put in a small package. By the way, I have been given a budget of around 200 bucks to buy myself a birthday kite, not sure what to do. I like the Luna Month kite a lot as well as the Giant Monarch, but I do have a storage limitation, any suggestions on what to look at?

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

No idea what to suggest as there are so many possibilities. But the Luna Moth is a fragile kite and only suitable in a very restricted wind range. It looks great, however, as does the Monarch. I keep both of them partly-assembled, which does use up a bit of space. Have a browse through Picture Pretty Kites, who have maybe the widest range and also offer 10% off any kite.

@derricksrandomviews

5 жыл бұрын

@@JimNicholls Thanks Jim, my living in a motorhome does put a bit of restriction on what size kite to get and how to store it.

@derricksrandomviews

5 жыл бұрын

1drv.ms/u/s!AhdZufTSU1Fd6BfowA4BLvrvuy8_ picture of the kite from Weifang Hengda with my modification. I narrowed my search for a big, and not cheap kite, to Hoffman's sparkling triangle box, the Quattrostelle, and George Peter's Orange and Red Sky Bird Kite, I also like George's Moth Delta. I ordered a 2 meter Red/Black and white Trilobite yesterday. It will be my first one of those. I would get a huge Jellyfish but its big, takes up a lot of room both for storage and a place to fly it. Its fun having a fist full of dollars given to me by friends, and they all are asking what I am going to get.

thanks for the demo

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Hope it was useful, JR. See the useful comment by "something in the air" about knots - another important consideration.

Hi Jim could you recommend some beginner kites for a beginner like me ?

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Deltas are good (maybe something about 7ft wingspan), or a parafoil or sled, which come in many sizes and are easy to take anywhere and usually fly well.

@user-fr1zc1jy3j

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks again Jim!

I cant read the text on the screen,can u make it larger & easier to see in future?

@JimNicholls

7 ай бұрын

Sorry, I can't do that. After making over 2,000 videos with 6,500,000 views, yours is the first complaint I've had about the size of the print. If you are watching on a phone, I guess it must be hard to see, but on a bigger screen most people clearly have no problem.

@neilcrompton3488

7 ай бұрын

@@JimNicholls text is fuzzy & totally unreadable.

@JimNicholls

7 ай бұрын

I just watched that video on my monitor and the text was perfectly clear, even without my glasses. The problem seems to be with your screen, not the video.

@neilcrompton3488

7 ай бұрын

@@JimNicholls im using an s13 samsung phone text is too small & very fuzzy!,even when using full screen in landscape mode.

@JimNicholls

7 ай бұрын

Perhaps you are not viewing at full definition (1080p) which you can choose in the video settings on KZread. Anyway, there's nothing I can do about it. No-one else seems to have a problem.

I had only one line and it never failed me...then I go married. I don't use it any more.

@JimNicholls

5 жыл бұрын

Just as well, Glenn!