Huh, I thought the only thing Skyrim got wrong was the lack of 100 more issues of the lusty Argonian maid.

@gerbandeflerban6783

7 жыл бұрын

And all the glitched quest (god the quest)

@ImperatorBaldo

7 жыл бұрын

George Zhang or maybe the shit level up system, shitting on the Attributes and MYSTICISM

@trollgamer7435

7 жыл бұрын

it would be fine if we had an lusty argonian maid build by FudgeMuppet ;D

@Nutt_lemmings

7 жыл бұрын

Leveling system is better in skyrim,makes more sense anyways but the perks do suck

@kazumablackwing4270

7 жыл бұрын

Lemmings-Gaming not really..the attribute and major/minor skill system worked better

there is an old man in the wilderness with his grandson and he reveres the old nordic pantheon, as opposed to the imperial pantheon he sends you on a quest for kyne, to hunt spectral ghosts of animals and if you kill him afterward and go to sovngarde, he's there wandering the mists which brings some questions are there more old nords who prefer the old pantheon? maybe a few younger stormcloacks wanting to completely reject everything and all imperial, and even if the old nord gods are unworshipped nowaday's you'd be hard pressed to find a nord who doesn't know who shor is.

@grizzlytoof5114

7 жыл бұрын

Turkish where? I MUST PLAY THIS QUEST

@krulltheskull

7 жыл бұрын

I believe he's referring to Froki's Shack and the Trials of Kyne, or something like that.

@brandont860

7 жыл бұрын

yeah i'm pretty sure that's the one

@FatrickAteman

7 жыл бұрын

yeah here if you want to see it elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Froki_Whetted-Blade

@mr.hankeythexmaspooteamhea6136

7 жыл бұрын

+Turkish That's first thing that popped in my mind when i watched this video.

2:52 "And all they do is worship the 8 divines..." Looks like we have a thalmor in our midst. 9 divines or nothing, ya dirty elf

@charlesford7887

7 жыл бұрын

Looks like we have another lore-ignorant idiot! He was talking about Elsweyr, which is under firm Thalmor control. And the Khajitt don't even worship the Nine.

@netherwalker1762

7 жыл бұрын

Oi, lighten up mate, he made a joke about the video, and that's alright. Let it happen... 😄😄😄😄😄

@ethannorman7537

7 жыл бұрын

Yall just jealous that the thalmor are taller than your character

@BigAutisticDaddy

6 жыл бұрын

+Ethan true... but i'm TICKER than those glorified toothpicks.

Based off the title I can tell y'all have been talking to zaric some more

@chaserseven2886

7 жыл бұрын

jacob owens yh me too

@BrozanJal

7 жыл бұрын

Yep somebody's been listening to Zaric good on you guys

@danwizzle91

7 жыл бұрын

jacob owens definitely but that's certainly not a negative his what if series was awesome as hell

@FrostFireTiger

7 жыл бұрын

I felt the same. This video has Zaric written all over it.

@brandont860

7 жыл бұрын

jacob owens so true

I can only guess that Bethesda switched out the gods for the sake of simplicity. it's a shame though because a whole full-blown religious war between the nord rebellion and the Imperial empire would have had more weight behind it if there was more than just Talos at stake.

@ratatoskr9366

Жыл бұрын

Yeah MK confirmed that during early development, the nordic pantheon was gutted for "simplicity" reasons. Nords revere Talos, but they never understood why other races revered him more than the original eight. Which is why its such a middle-finger to the lore of Skyrim that they made the Nords all about Talos. Nords should be all about Kyne, the Warrior-Goddess.

@alexdietz7362

Жыл бұрын

​@@ratatoskr9366 it is justified by the passage of time. There are references to the 'old' nordic ways. Things change. The people calling for change fighting the status quo in the past create the traditions of the future. The traditionalists fight the rebels who shape the traditionalists of the future. It's ironic, but i believe it's a way human society reaches equilibrium. Civilizations need to adapt to changing times, but also not to fix the parts that aren't broken. It's some sort of political science we don't fully understand yet.

@ratatoskr9366

Жыл бұрын

@@alexdietz7362 Yes, we all know this. Just because we can justify it lore-wise doesn't change the fact that it was omitted for lazy reasons. You could have done the same with Morrowind's religion, but you would be gutting a major aspect of their unique culture. So too is what happened to Skyrim.

@sgtmarcusharris4260

Жыл бұрын

The idea that the Nordic pantheon would be to complex and hard to understand is really showing of how little faith Bethesda has in its players intelligence

I think it does make sense that the Nords would have the imperial pantheon in many of the larger cities. After all, for a long time they were the Empire's strongest and most loyal warriors. However, I do find it very strange that you'll even find references in the everyday speech of nords in skyrim to the old pantheon ("By Ysmir!")without shrines existing to them. It would have to me made sense to see Nordic Pantheon shrines scattered all over the place, and in rural towns and anti-imperial holds.

@waahmed7830

4 жыл бұрын

I always saw it as the old gods are worshiped out in nature and dont need no temples. We have Kynesgrove as an example. Dibella, Kynareth and Maraare the only divnes to have temples and they are the nordic hearth gods after all.

@blehscary303

4 жыл бұрын

I hate to be to be a debby downer, but I think it actually makes sense lorewise that the Nords worship the divines. I mean the 8(later 9) divines were literally supposed to be a compromise between the old Nordic and Elven pantheons, in order to convert and unify them both. If anything why are the Nords only in the last 200 years worshiping gods literally made(in part atleast) to cater to them? It's analogous to the Catholic Church moving Christmas to the winter solstice. The Nord's made their mark on the divines, I think it make's sense that they worship them. And instead, just reference the old gods as sort of mythology/folk tales. Maybe it would make for a more interesting game, and maybe I'm being boring. But I like that the Nords worship the divines, and I think it makes sense.

@hammerite6418

3 жыл бұрын

@@blehscary303 so you’re defending Bethesda for simplifying the religion and removing half of the Nordic culture it doesn’t matter if it makes sense or not it’s dumbed down and not as cool

@valeclaw1697

3 жыл бұрын

Id argue its not a criticism about sense: Elder Scrolls universe, like many fantasy universes, are logistical nightmares lol. What matters is what Skyrim had been set up as for years before, and that simplifying it lead to many missed opportunities.

@BroadwayRonMexico

2 жыл бұрын

@@hammerite6418 From a lore perspective though, it fits. It's been centuries of strong core integration in the Empire since the time most of the lore books on the Nord pantheon were written (late First Era to early Second Era). If you look at the Roman Empire as a reference, itd be pretty unrealistic if there wasnt heavy imperialization of the culture. We actually do see a lot more of the Nords' old beliefs and practices in ESO, during the mid-Second Era

@ Everyone who comes here to rationalize this. 1. Yes, it's reasonable and plausible to assume this could happen. 2. Doesn't change the fact that it's the lamer of the two options.

And I didn't think role-playing as a Skaal born, Stormcloak sympathizer could get any funner. Death to the heretical Imperials!

Why did Bethesda get so lazy? It really bums me out.

@cold_Lightning9

7 жыл бұрын

*Looks at Maven Black Briar*Yeah...those fucking essential NPCs....

@mmirlas2820

7 жыл бұрын

Cold Lightning9 "You should see me when you get bored, stranger." You know who

@ManofFrench45

7 жыл бұрын

Pineapple dude Have you ever been to the cloud district? of course not

@REXFORGT

7 жыл бұрын

$$$

@halfhalo33

7 жыл бұрын

to simplify it for the dirty casuals.

I think it was probably on the cutting room floor where Bethesda thought "Let's have a war where the Stormcloaks are trying to preserve the Nordic pantheon and the Imperials are ok with replacing it." But ultimately, probably decided this would be far too complicated for casuals to follow along with for one of their main questlines so the conflict was reduced to just Talos worship (far easier to understand).

Keeping true to diverse lore > simplifying lore for casuals.

@Bardathe111

7 жыл бұрын

I'm just gonna take this back.

@NunoPlague

7 жыл бұрын

I was surprised with Elder Scrolls Online's lack of simplification on the Lore section. Sure, uninterested people can ignore conversations and quests, but the stuff is still there for those interested. Here's hoping the team of writers of TES VI doesn't pussy out and uses all that there's available.

@Arborem

7 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't count on it (and was "pussy out" really necessary dude?). I would have to say ESO has done a great job world building and incorporating even obscure bits of lore. My favorite incorporation of lore would be the way in which the creative lead for the Thieves Guild really took charge in designing Abah's Landing. Seriously just listen to her talk about it in that ESO live preview they did over a year ago. She was so fucking hyped on the lore, so passionate! She's such a lore nerd that she got excited about architecture XD

@NunoPlague

7 жыл бұрын

"To pussy out" to take an easy way out, to act cowardly towards a challenge, to bail out. It's the internet, no one needs to watch their language. And yes, I particularly loved the attention ESO has given to the Green Pact, down to the architecture and furnishing there was nothing made of wood, just leather and bones. Same goes for the references here and there to cannibalism and funerary rites. Loved that the bosmer got some much needed love!

@NunoPlague

7 жыл бұрын

That's beside the point, Vanders. We've established the meaning of the popular saying and we moved past it. No sense in lingering on the same topic when everything about it was already discussed.

Man now I want to play as an Imperial Inquisitor or Nordic Zealot who goes around smashing those who do not follow their gods.

@Seraphim_Belisarius

7 жыл бұрын

Poly Gamey As a Nordic Zealot, get Heimskr as a follower, lol.

@hugmonger

7 жыл бұрын

Lol its been less than an hour and I already forgot about this idea X.X .... Eh, I am just going to go back to trying to make my tiny argonian war lord.

@mmirlas2820

7 жыл бұрын

Poly Gamey Imagine Heimskr leading a lynch mob of Orthodox nords, killing altmer and burning down temples to "Talos"

"Ysmir's beard..."

@BadGamer40

4 жыл бұрын

By shor

@rhettorical6128

4 жыл бұрын

Shor’s bones!

@SilverGamingFI

4 жыл бұрын

I wish there were more sayings like that Like Kynes Winds, by Orkey's trickery, by Tsun's axe, By Alduin's maw etc.

@WhiskeyPatriot

3 жыл бұрын

By Tsun’s Frosty Breeches!

I think that the old gods are still worshiped in Skyrim by the majority of Nords, just by Imperial names. Think about it, most Nords you meet only bring up gods who have well liked equivalents in the Nordic pantheon, and whenever they speak of them they sound entirely different from any Imperial interpretations. For instance, Talos is never regarded as a god of governance and rarely regarded as a great unifier, but rather is worshiped as a war god and a paragon of what every Nord should be. In the Temple of Mara, they explicitly call Mara the "Handmaiden of Kyne", and it clearly has no connection to the imperial Cult or the Temple of the Divines in Solitude. Sure there are still priests of Arkay in the Halls of the Dead, but those could have easily been commissioned by the Imperial authorities. As for the Temple of Kynareth, it was definitely originally a temple to Kyne, but the priestess there now probably believes in a more Imperial interpretation, although she may simply be trying to be inclusive.

@a.s.7936

16 күн бұрын

I always understood it to be this way but I guess some people just don't get it.

Skyrim? Wrong? *TRIGGERED*

@blueeyed5074

7 жыл бұрын

Blasphemy!!!

@oyvindyt

7 жыл бұрын

Madness!!!

@nukinonmalawn1

7 жыл бұрын

CODY BAUER Damn them, trying to suggest how MY beloved game could be more interesting and unique

@kriegofficergary6921

7 жыл бұрын

CODY BAUER HERESY

@aero5560

7 жыл бұрын

CODY BAUER believe it or not, Skyrim isn't completely lore friendly. grow up. if you're gonna get triggered, get triggered at the fact that nobody but me and a couple of others still play Oblivion

“After death, his spirit ascended to the heavens to become the ninth and youngest divine, under the name given to him by the Nords-Talos.” - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages. Talos is his Nordic name, Tiber Septim is his Imperial name. The name Ysmir is used for living Dragonborn and doesn’t apply to him once he ascended.

@benbittinger9789

2 жыл бұрын

It is also used by some Shezzarine that have not been confirmed as dragonborn, such as Wulfharth of Atmora.

@Super50ldier

Жыл бұрын

@@benbittinger9789 Ysmir is a name given to Pelinal Whitestrake, Wulfharth, Tiber Septim and Last Dragonborn.

it actually does bring up the whole "Talos is Ysmir" in a quest where you sleep in an inn and a ghost appears mistaking you for Ysmir when you ask the innkeeper who that is she says that it could be one of the many names of Tiber Septim

@Alizudo

7 жыл бұрын

Actually he mistakes you for "Hjalti". She *_assumes_* he's talking about Tiber Septim, but there is no proof of that.

@dakotapiercy174

7 жыл бұрын

oh my bad. Ik there is some talk of Ysmir somewhere in the game guess I just assume it was from that quest

@bryanmanuel4945

6 жыл бұрын

Isn't he right your Ysmir.

@st.martinlutherofwittenber5523

3 жыл бұрын

@@Alizudo Hjalti is his original Nordic name there is loads of proof for that

@Alizudo

3 жыл бұрын

@@st.martinlutherofwittenber5523 She, the NPC, has ZERO awareness of that fact. She is making an assumption based on no evidence, even if it's true.

If the main quest remained relatively unchanged, having the Dragonborn slay Alduin also adds a lot of depth to the quest. You’re not just slaying the chief dragon, you’re slaying a god. And in same degree becoming a “Christ figure” (going to the afterlife, defeating a god, and returning).

This is one of the reasons the nords are my favorite race in the elder scrolls, their pantheon.

Something id like to know the "Final Battle" that all Nords wait and train for in Sovngarde the one where Shor "Lorkhan" who returns restored and with Tsun and Kyne will lead all the dead Nords into war. Is it a revenge war against the Elven gods and Aldmer or is it Sovngarde and Atherius battling all of Oblivion? An Aedra vs Daedra war?

@Super50ldier

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe it's Shor leading the Nords to battle against the Aldmer and Alduin is the Nordic version of Auri-El.

Well the real nords got christian in 200 years

@gaminreasons8941

7 жыл бұрын

lars Olofsson Therefore saying it's unlikely is actually ridiculous.

@moongirl786

7 жыл бұрын

+Iars Olofsson That is very true. Still, I would have liked to have seen an underground cult to Shor and the rest of the Nordic pantheon; one that went as far as to reject Talos and worship the real Ysmir would have been superb as well

@Bardathe111

7 жыл бұрын

You can find that group you want on Solstheim; it's the Skaal. They were unaffected by the empire and still worship the traditional pantheon.

@Cossu0l

7 жыл бұрын

Bardathe111 No, the Skaal don't worship the Nordic Pantheon, they worship the All-maker, even back in Bloodmoon, the NPCs pointed out how the Skaal were different from Skyrim nords.

@mr.hankeythexmaspooteamhea6136

7 жыл бұрын

+moongirl786 Closest thing you'll get to that is an old Nord archer living in a shack east of a tower with a dragon in it, worships Kyne & starts raising the boy that survived Helgen. Here's the map if you want it: srmap.uesp.net/?centeron=Froki%27s+Shack

in oblivion Burma is more like Skyrim than actual Skyrim

The gray breads say "you are Ysmir now" to you

The nords were always described as the barbarian/Hunter clans in the north, I would liked to have seen a lot more warrior halls and hunting lodges scattered across Skyrim with a better civil war storyline. Still a good game though

I've always wondered why there was pretty much no talk of all of these ancient nord gods. Just another reason to support the Stormcloaks

sadly im afraid that tes 6 is even going to be more water down and over simplifed based on the quality of FO4

@AsteriaRiselta

5 жыл бұрын

Watch them combine one and two handed skills with marksman and it'll now be called the martial skill. What else can they simplify? Do we need to choose race/gender anymore or will they just give us an assigned character?

@Mattchu.the.Pikachu

5 жыл бұрын

@@AsteriaRiselta what he means by that is the depth we've seen in fallout 3 and fallout new Vegas and skyrim will no longer be there. That stuff draws me into the world

@AsteriaRiselta

5 жыл бұрын

@@Mattchu.the.Pikachu I know what he meant, I was giving examples to further prove the point, i.e. simplifying the game to the point where you dont have to think about anything, combat skills are further dumbed down, the story is even *more* simplified than ever and that's still not even touching upon arguably the biggest issue of TES VI which will be almost entirely paid mods

I always figured that after being a province of the empire for so long the Imperial pantheon became the "Official" pantheon for purposes of trade and unification. Using the age old method of syncretism to absorb the major Nordic gods and the rest just being relegated to regional deity status not much known outside either professions or specific cults. Rumor has it one of the dev team said an early concept was to have the stormcloaks do just that. Hold up the Old Nord Pantheon as part of their "Skyrim for the Nords" bit. And allegedly the stormcloaks territories would have had temples to the old pantheon instead. However I can't.find anything specific confirming or denying this. It's just a rumor I heard.

The old gods should’ve definitely been talked about more by npcs in the game. Instead it’s mostly dragon stuff like the cult, we should’ve been able to learn more history than just the dragon cult stuff

Well, the Alessian 8 Divines has been a major fixture in Tamriel since the founding of the First Empire. Hell, the Nords even helped found it! It's no surprise to me at all that the Alessian 8 Divines are the primary pantheon in Skyrim. That said, it shouldn't be the only pantheon or belief system. I feel a 60/40 split between Alessian and Nordic pantheons would have been the most appropriate.

@melofiloxd1429

2 жыл бұрын

It should be like 20/80 at most

@Super50ldier

2 жыл бұрын

@@melofiloxd1429 Why?

@KNIGHTMAREMANIAC

Жыл бұрын

They worshipped Nine originally, Shezzarr fell out of favor by the 2nd age

I do think it would've been better to have the Nordic Pantheon rather than the Imperial, but i think they just used that to avoid confusion.

My nord character still believes in the ancient nordic ways, she even proudly wears a set of ancient nord armor.

FINALLY! I've been itching for this type of vid from you mates. Thank you so much

FREEDOM OR SOVNGARDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Xchillest

7 жыл бұрын

Claire AwesomeSauce I salute you my friend

@mwh6043

7 жыл бұрын

Claire AwesomeSauce As a true empirial, I approve of this message.

@cr7_cod_battle_w2k13

7 жыл бұрын

Claire AwesomeSauce the empire surrendered to the dominion smh

@mwh6043

7 жыл бұрын

Ulfric is a ignorant puppet of the Thalmor.

@cr7_cod_battle_w2k13

7 жыл бұрын

Ulrich is not an ignorant... He knows the way of the voice

Well, we need someone to make a mod adding new temples and priests to Skyrim that worship the nordic pantheon

I have to say this is 1 of the most interesting videos you guys have released in a while. Very interesting stuff.

The best video you guys have made honestly, I would love to see more stuff like this.

These lore videos are on point. Keep up the good work guys.

The omission of the Nordic pantheon is especially bizarre if you spent some time in Bruma in Obvlion talking to NPCs. The border town had a distinct culture and feel from the rest of Cyrodil. Then it went the way of the medium blade skill.

Actually, your interpretation of Talos is incorrect. Well, it's correct and incorrect at the same time. Ysmir Wulfarth was the first Shezarrine, the first mortal avatar of Lorkhan, or Shor. Tiber Septim was not Ysmir, but the Greybeards gave him the honorific title of Ysmir due to him being a Shezarrine as well. However, Ysmir was still alive. Due to the events of the Battle of Red Mountain, Ysmir became the very first lich on accident. During the battle, Dagoth Ur used Sunder to strike Ysmir, and Sunder, being a tonal instument capable of bending the laws of nature and the divine, sundered Ysmir's Shezarrine soul while leaving his body behind. Henceforth, due to his zombie-like appearance, Ysmir would be known as the Underking. Zurin Arctus would become the second Shezzarine that we know of, and would serve as Imperial Battlemage for Tiber Septim, the third Shezzarine. In order to conquer the Summerset Isles, Tiber Septim used the Numidium, but in order to do that without the Heart of Lorkhan, he needed the souls of two other Shezzarines. The Underking wished for an end to his cursed eternal life, and so he and Zurin Arctus merged souls so that Ysmir and Arctus inhabited the same body and their souls were used for the Mantella to fuel the Numidium. However, this only caused the Underking to become even more zombie-like, and he would not be able to die unless reunited with the Mantella. See, here is how Talos is known to have become a divine according to Loremasters. When Tiber Septim died, he did not ascend to godhood, at least not immediately and not by himself. Rather, Talos is the amalgamate of the souls of all three known Shezzarines, which includes Tiber Septim. This required the Underking to die, so it was when the Underking is finally reunited with the Mantella at the end of TES II that Talos became the Ninth Divine. This is further supported by the fact that there was no Talos worship prior to TES III Morrowind. You could worship any of the other eight divines in TES II, but Talos did not yet exist. And yet, TES II occurs long after Tiber's death, so how come he has been worshipped since Tiber's death? This is where the Dragonbreak, the Warp in the West comes into play. The Dragonbreak, which occured when Ysmir and Zurin Arctus, known collectively as the Underking were reunited with the Mantella, reunited with their souls, is thought to have had drastic effects on the timeline of Nirn. With his souls back in his hands, the Underking was finally allowed to die, and the Mantella was destroyed. This warped the timeline, causing the Miracle of Peace, killing the protagonist of TES II: Daggerfall, and sending the souls of Ysmir and Zurin Arctus back in time before letting them ascend, sending them to the exact moment of Tiber Septim's death. The souls of the three Shezarrines, united as one, then ascended to godhood as Talos, the Ninth Divine, filling the position of Shor, the missing god.

@kurisu1204

6 жыл бұрын

MaxTheMaximumGamer I feel my brain melting

@melofiloxd1429

2 жыл бұрын

Least convoluted elder scrolls lore:

@Super50ldier

2 жыл бұрын

Filling in the role of Shezarr, the Missing God.

@Super50ldier

Жыл бұрын

NDEnbyGamerMax Pelinal Whitestrake is the first Shezarrine, not Wulfharth. Pelinal was the first to receive the title Ysmir. Wulfharth is the second Shezarrine to receive the title Ysmir. Then Zurin Arctus the third Shezarrine and Tiber Septim was the fourth Shezarrine to receive the title Ysmir.

@Super50ldier

Жыл бұрын

NDEnbyGamerMax Wulfharth is not the Underking, he's the Ash-King. Zurin Arctus is the Underking.

Great video, the nordic culture is indeed a complex and incredible aspect of the lore

Not sure what youre talking about. Theres tons of mentions of the old gods. However, the main starting conflict of the story is the civil war between Nords who want to go back to the old ways, and the Empire who they have belonged to for hundreds of years trying to keep them. So its safe to say Imperial religion may have stronger roots with those loyal to the empire. And dont forget, the Imperials are actually decedents of the original Nords who came from Atmora, so their own religion is an amalgamation of Nord and Elven religion after they were enslaved by the elves. So its not hard to make the connections that they worship the same gods, albeit with different names. Just because a god is known to act one way around one group doesnt mean he will be the same around another. Sometimes you have to know how cater to your crowd and act accordingly.

@secondandonly8032

7 жыл бұрын

Meh Bleh actually, the imperials descended from the nedes

@mehbleh1310

7 жыл бұрын

The imperials are the product of Nord and Nedic interbreeding, And while their origin is unknown they were also believed to come from Atmora, therefore probably sharing a common ancestor. elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Nede

@AsteriaRiselta

5 жыл бұрын

Considering that all the way through Oblivion the Nords had their pantheon while they've been a part of the empire for hundreds of years already, now suddenly in the last 200 years they just up and abandon all that for the imperial one? Again, you can explain that away with some half-assed lore but you got the right idea; they're catering to their crowd accordingly. In this case it's casuals that for the most part just want to rush in and kill things.

@elvenbredx6012

4 жыл бұрын

yeah, no ! Imperial are descendants of needs that come from wandering elnofay not Atmorans or at least it is up for debate and even if they are of Atmoran descent the 9 divines are construct of the first empire religion of Elisa the Slave Queen and not of old Atmoran gods. After Akatosh killed the true king of the gods S'hor (his equal from the creation, he came to the aid of humans to help them defeat the only other force strong enough to defeat him - The daedra sealing Nirn so Daedra could not meddlea and asuring his state are the highest among the aedra - thus the 8 divines Being worshiped in all this time to gather power and secretly helping just the high elves in this time to destroy the construct of the world to free the elves from the mortal trap that they are set in.

@Super50ldier

2 жыл бұрын

@@mehbleh1310 Actually the Imperials are a product of Atmoran not Nord and Nede and Nords are a product of Nede and Atmoran which makes Nords and Imperials cousins.

It's like Germanic Paganism (Viking Gods), It died off, They all hated Christianity to begin with, then were converted to Christianity and Germanic Paganism died off

@tasukaan6504

7 жыл бұрын

:D

@netherwalker1762

7 жыл бұрын

:D

@harrisonworley936

7 жыл бұрын

True it did die off but one we know it's real (we fight tsun ffs) and two it wouldn't die off that quickly and the grey beards still follow the religion so presumably Ulfirc does as well, it's not hard to imagine that if the stormcloaks won then he would re-introduce the Nordic pantheon to Skyrim

@gaminreasons8941

7 жыл бұрын

Harrison Worley I distinctly remember Arngeir referring to Akatosh and Kynareth.

@mustyfan1584

6 жыл бұрын

Tasukaan The European people were forced to convert to Christianity, it wasn’t a choice. I wish Germanic Paganism was still a major religion.

This is such a good point I never really thought about. Great Vid again guys 👆

About the Nords using the Imperial Pantheon instead of their own traditional: I found this on Alessia, The Empresses and the founder of the first empire of Cyrodiil (During the First Era): Alessia's first major act as Empress was to abolish worship of the Ayleid gods. However, she was a shrewd politician, enough to realize that her people had never known any other gods. The Nords violently opposed the Ayleid gods, and chiefly worshipped their version of Lorkhan, whom they called Shor. The elves, however, hated Lorkhan, whom they called "The Trickster", and completely rejected any worship of him. Alessia knew she had to be careful in choosing the official state religion; she could not afford to anger her Nordic allies, but her own people could not adjust to the complete Nordic pantheon in just a single generation. Her compromise was to merge the two religions, choosing to keep the less controversial Ayleid gods, such as Akatosh and bring in popular Nordic ones, such as Dibella and Kynareth. She sidestepped the issue of Lorkhan by leaving him out of her Eight Divines, but identifying him as the "missing ninth god", a brother to the Eight Divines who was otherwise absent from the pantheon. The worship of the Eight Divines, along with the Empire itself, would go on to become the most prominent religion across all of Tamriel. I feel like she had this taken care of a long time ago.

@evanmann7036

7 жыл бұрын

Im not saying that they still didn't. Real life example Roman mythology. They worshiped the normal or established gods I should say but they still had some that they saw starkly different then the greeks and some that were exclusive to Rome. What im saying is how easy would it be to go back to a system that has long been established and was the dominate religion of one time.

@evanmann7036

7 жыл бұрын

Well Skyrim is cannon so clearly something or someone changed that. As a life long Nord i don't understand it either. I'm trying to make sense were their are holes here. Any explanation you can offer?

@evanmann7036

7 жыл бұрын

All very true. I feel as though the nords in skyrim are very loyal to the Empire. (That is like 50% of the reason of the Stormcloaks. Ulfric gets betrayed at the Incident at Markarth by the Imperials.) So for The Nords to use their system(which features quite a bit of figures that were syncretised form the Norse pantheon) on the daily but still have these old different gods as well sounds perfectly reasonable to me. For most of time the Empire didn't care about what you worshiped unless its a Prince.

@valeclaw1697

4 жыл бұрын

With all due respect though, I feel like that would not sit well with many nords either: mixing their beliefs with its radical opposite in Elven religions and trying to convert them to this new religion... Nords are a very contentious people on the best of days.

@melofiloxd1429

2 жыл бұрын

What this tells is that the Imperial Cult was made for the Cyrods rather than anyone else. Having Skyrim forgetting its gods to worship imperials one could have happen, doesn't mean it should have, it'd be just like Summerset forgetting its gods aswell.

What about the All-Maker ?

@hagdeff

7 жыл бұрын

that's Maiq the Liar, there's a reason he's been in nearly every game and hasn't aged

@randomname8867

7 жыл бұрын

expand dong Bethesda wanted to make a new religion

@zylaaeria2627

7 жыл бұрын

I always thought the All-Maker was a Nordic personification of either Anu or Anui-EL; especially with how the Skaal refer to the Black Books as not of the All-Maker, i.e not of Anuic origin.

@o.cowdery4675

7 жыл бұрын

This. They don't have Alessian influence so they have no Akatosh, and their "Alduin" is Thaartag. They're like the Dunmer in that they embrace the opposite aspect to most humans: stasis.

@callumunga5253

7 жыл бұрын

+Dimitrije Popović I thought Alduin was one fragment of Aka, just as Akatosh is.

I read somewhere that the symbol used in puzzles in Nordic Tombs represent the gods. For example, the dragon is Alduin, the whale is Tsun, the moth is Kyne, etc.

"What Skyrim Got Wrong" could be a great series.

By Ysmir, you'll never leave here alive

I agree, but you can usually see people in more rural areas of Skyrim saying things like "Shor's bones!" or "by Yismir" so it's definitely still there.

They also ruined how skyrim is supposed to be REALLY cold and snowy everywhere. (Is global warming in skyrim a thing?)

@levikolevy

7 жыл бұрын

Ducky gosh dang elves!! Causing global warming!!! Melting our ice caps and glaciers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@grizzlytoof5114

7 жыл бұрын

It's their spells!! #StopSkyrimGlobalWarming

@levikolevy

7 жыл бұрын

Ducky this whole civil war thing and the banning of talos is all a front! All they really want is to raise sea levels!!!!!!

@notevenironicallyfunny204

7 жыл бұрын

That's Bethesda trying to diversify the climate in the game, not a lore thing. At least, that's what I believe.

@secondandonly8032

7 жыл бұрын

Ducky Skyrim always being described like that was probably over exaggeration

Here's how I see it, Kyne and Kynareth are indeed the same goddess. The Nord version is more associated with storms and harsh weather. Kynareth is more associated with fair weather. (complete headcanon)

Love that you guys have been talking with Zaric

I don’t think it’s a big issue how Skyrim showed it personally.

In regards to the Ysmir thing, its a title given by the Greybeards to anyone they recognise as Dragonborn. After you complete the trial of Jorgan Windcaller the Greybeards actually call you Ysmir in their chant, making the Dragonborn the 3rd Ysmir.

When i first started playing, it took me quite a few playthoughs to actually start understanding the world i was in. Once i started making connections, i was mindblown as to how deep and alive this world was. But i suppose i would have needed far, far more time to understand elder scrolls religions if there was more than one panteon in skyrim available. It IS a shame they left out the nord panteon in the nord homeland, though.

I'm loving all the skyrim videos

You know how mad I'll be when I load up Elsweyr and here a Khajiit worshiping the divines instead of their cool moon gods and stuff.

Taking out the Nordic Pantheon is like taking the Hist out of Black Marsh.

Hell, they could've even had different deities be more or less prominent in the different holds: Jhunal in Winterhold, what with Azhidal (who was born in Saarthal) and Shalidor; Shor and Ysmir in Windhelm; Kyne in Falkreath, et cetera. It would've gone even farther to make each hold feel distinct, and it could've been fun to walk around Windhelm being put on a much higher pedestal for being the Dragonborn rather than simply having the guards occasionally give one or two lines to that effect.

I agree so much. Skyrim is one of my favourite games of all time, but the setting lacked that extra exotic element to it that the Elder Scrolls games are so perfect for that adding a little more of elements like this could've fixed. Plus making the stormcloaks far more traditional would create a clearer contrast with the Empire and make the civil war actually seem to mean something, rather than just decide whether you'd prefer to fight the Thalmor now or later or whether you prefer the colour red or blue.

I’d love to see a much much more in depth video about the Nordic pantheon

On the topic of Nords, you should talk about how strong the Tongues were and the might of their ancient empires. IIRC The Chimer and Dwemer had to band together to beat them.

I definitely agree with you guys the original nordic gods were so badass and had this norse theme that the nords have and diffienterated the nordic religion to all of the others in tamriel

@wavriappleseed8647

7 жыл бұрын

kyle schuh What you mean 'original' ?

@ironcladschuh3006

7 жыл бұрын

I mean stuck with the original names of the gods before they were switched to the imperial names

@wavriappleseed8647

7 жыл бұрын

oh, yeah my bad. Misunderstood ;)

@ironcladschuh3006

7 жыл бұрын

That's OK man don't worry about it

I love these videos 💯

Could you imagine if in Oblivion they failed to properly depict the main Cyrodiilic ethnic groups and just had them all as a monoculture, or imagine if you could only play as only one of the potential khajiiti form

I hear a lot of mentions of Kyne in Skyrim along with Kynereth. I think the names are used interchangeably depending on how traditional or how imperial an individual or city is

I have to completely agree because the religion of the Nord People in general would really set The feelings of the difference between the imperial provinces in Skyrim and her people

Very much agree with the arguments here. Having the juxtaposition of the Almsivi Tribunal Temple and the Imperial Cult in Morrowind was really important for world building.

There needs to be a mod where if stormcloaks win skyrim becomes more traditional including bringing back old religion entirely

well, Akatosh is in the traditional nordic pantheon if i remember correctly, as a duality. Part Alduin, part Akatosh. As for the elven aspect of Auriel, in the end of the first era his elven aspects were attempted to be purged, and it broke time

Maybe try and do a build centered around the ancient pantheon

Thought you'd mention it but the Grey beards actually name YOU, Ysmir dragon of the north, I always saw this as cool as I always liked to think my character was the reincarnation of talos who had come down because the people of Skyrim had recently stopped worshiping him, I mean the character from oblivion ends up as the god (deadric prince) sherogath so how cool would it be if in ES6 it turned out that the dragon born was actually the reincarnation of Talos (hence why he/she is so awesome at everythin)

I always role play nords to worship the old pantheon, it's just more fun.

I always like FudgeMuppets videos.

I just realized during this video: is the bone bridge in front of shor's palace where the phrase "shor's bones!" comes from?

I was surprised nothing was made of the pronouncement of the Greybeards in which they bestowed the name or title of Ysmir, Dragon of the North, upon the player. Thinking back to the old fame systems in Morrowind or Oblivion, the recognition of a new mortal as Ysmir should have been a bigger deal. This would have been interesting if the player character's gender was also taken into consideration. Would people still exclaim, "By Ysmir's beard", or would it alter to something along the lines of "By Ysmir's bountiful bosom"?

I wish I was a hero in the elder scrolls. Would be so fucking epic.

This has driven me nuts about Skyrim since day one. I think they watered it down just the same way they dumbed down combat and such for the mainstreaming of the game. It's more complex lore than many people either are used to, or can follow. They simplified many things from Morrowind to Oblivion and then to Skyrim, which is a real shame because it was that depth and complexity that attracted me in the first place.

They talk about sovngarde but never mention the Nordic pantheon.btw love you froki whetted blade

Time to create a traditional barbarian Nord that worships the TRUE pantheon!

Yeah I completely agree. I have strong interest in Elder Scrolls Nordic history and also real life Norse history and culture and I've done tons of research on this very subject and it just makes me feel like I'm apart of a group when you guys talk about the same ideas that I believe in.

When the first crusade comes in

I have a lore and a technical explanation for the absence of the Nord pantheon in Skyrim. The technical explanation could have been to prevent convulution and making the game a bit more simplified in terms of backstory. There may have been consideration for the Nord pantheon during early development, as could be postulated by the Easter egg references of these gods in the NPC dialogues ("Shor's bones! A handsome man in Falkreath.") and the in-game literature, but was later scrapped to prevent confusion. A lore explanation could be two-fold. Either A, the Nords began acknowledging the Imperial gods after the Septim dynasty was established, in a similar way that the Vikings converted to Christianity- by their chieftains and kings converting, in a sort of trickle-down evangelicanism. Or, B, they merely called the gods by their Imperial names as a sort of cultural compromise, or rather as a sign of Imperial cultural encroachment, and the banning of Talos worship was the last straw for the Nords, whose culture and religion had already suffered so much interference and erosion that the damage already done is irreversable, and the Stormcloak uprising is, in some context, a war of religious and cultural preservation against the inconoclasty of the Mede dynasty and Aldmeri Dominion.

Yeah, when I learned that the Nords had their own pantheon, I began to question it myself. Seems like a terrible cop out in Bethesda's part resorting to everyone in the province worshipping the Cyrodilic Pantheon. There was a lot of potential there.

Skyrim was my intro to the Elderscrolls i love it and Nord is my favorite race. But when as learned more and more about their lore i grew more and more disappointed seeing how the Nord's lore was wasnt as prevelent in Skyrim. I still love the game but for some reason the lack of the animal gods in any proper form just really stings for me.

A lot of cool shit was removed from the final cut. An example would be that during the College of Winterhold questline, the Dragonborn would have gone back in time to witness the Thalmor shooting Talos out of Heaven using White-Gold as a metaphysical gun.

Good points! =D Good video =D

Correction: Akatosh isn't Auri-El, this is a common miskate, like the one that says that Alduin is Akatosh.

@Super50ldier

2 жыл бұрын

Alduin and Akatosh and Auri-El are different interpretations of Aka the oversoul Time God.

I hadn't really noticed it, but now that I think about it it is really weird and I hope a mod that can integrate it into the game without breaking it comes soon.

I have a good answer to the first question they wanted too be able to make this game easier

sounds like good material for a mod.

I here kodlak whitemane is in a better place now, for is there any place better than sovengard?

Jon Snow is Ysmir confirmed???

@draco107

5 жыл бұрын

Necro Boomin you ain't saying that now haha

I wish the Nordic Pantheon could have been seen more. What would have been neat is for solitude to have had the imperial pantheon, but Windhelm to have had a temple of the Nordic Pantheon to show the dichotomy of cultures and religions. And depending on who wins the civil war that would change one of the temples to match the other.

8 divines?!? I think you mean 9

@trivialrant9808

7 жыл бұрын

John Perry 8 Talos lover

@awesomeant9509

7 жыл бұрын

John Perry *GASP* by the 8!!!

@ethannorman7537

7 жыл бұрын

Talos is a man, he's not a god

@someonesilence3731

7 жыл бұрын

Elven heretics everywhere.

@DoubleBoost23

6 жыл бұрын

Ethan Norman Fus Ro Dah

Akatosh is hybridized version of Auriel, are you SHORE about that?

hey Scott you guys often say Orci is like malacath and the nords see him as the patron of the orcs but when he's described he sounds like mephala more than anyone else

Ysmir is somewhat of a part of the whole being that is Talos. Talos is Tiber Septim, Arcturius, and Ysmir

I agree with this

"Half right as usual!" The Stoker/Avarri. It was the creation of the Alessian Empire and the organization of the Cyrodillic pantheon that killed the Nordic Pantheon. King Borgas of Windhelm outlawed the old pantheon in favor of the new pantheon created by Marukh. Marukh's pantheon and order died out, and was superseded by the Cyrodillic pantheon of the first Empire. It is quite ironic that Borgas's tomb has nordic carvings of the old pantheon in it. Also Kyne is also the goddess of nature, and the hunt. She is often referred to as "The Warrior-Widow of Shor". Stuhn was also killed by the Aldmeri pantheon during the Ehlnofey wars of the Dawn Era. One note about the Ancient nordic pantheon is that it originated in Atmora

@Super50ldier

2 жыл бұрын

Tsun was killed in the Dawn Era.