Am I the only one thinking "could you please actually show the cars they are looking at and talking about, instead of their talking heads"?

Thanks for bringing back After/Drive on a consistent basis.

@nerdglider

9 жыл бұрын

I agree this show makes staying subscribed worth it :)

@user-if4im5bz9p

8 жыл бұрын

+nerdglider с

I loved the Bertone Corvette Ramarro Concept from 1984. I thought it was beautiful, and got to see it live at the LA auto show.

I like that FIAT barchetta they made. I know it looks a bit silly but, I found it interesting for some unknown reason.

I always loved the X1/9, I own one as well. Totally impractical like so many other small mid-engined cars :P

Although decidedly NOT a super car, I absolutely LUSTED after the Fiat X1/9 when I was young. It just ticked all the right boxes in my idea of a small, light, sporty car. For that matter, it still does. *drool*

Great show again. The Countach and Stratos were up on the wall back in my youth. Also the Fiat x1/9 and the Ferrari 250gt. I do remember reading R & T magazine from late 70's to the late 90's and there always seemed to be Bertone concepts featured frequently. All the one mentioned are great too and many more that weren't. I imagine there must be a book or two written about Bertone designs. Anyway, look forward to the next after/drive.

You guys nailed nearly all of my Bertone picks. Honorable mention goes to the Pirana/Espada, just love its outlandishness.

Coincidentally, on Jay Leno's Garage KZread channel today he posted a video on the one-off 1967 Bertone Pirana.

@Tarkov.

9 жыл бұрын

I just noticed that, how peculiar.

I can't get enough of After/Drive. At first I was like WTF is this I don't like talking but I really like the mix of you three. Keep em coming and +1 to the documentary idea!

Hi guys, it's a good thing that you decided to honor the Bertone styling house. I always enjoy After/Drive featuring both Mikes and Zak, and was very excited when I saw the title of the new episode. Upon starting the episode though, I wondered how qualified you guys are about talking about the subject.Sadly you confirmed my suspicions, and one of the rare comments I need to write on KZread has to be of negative feedback. The whole talk was riddled with inaccuracies (for god's sake Spinelli, "Ferrari Era" ?!!, and it's "Zero Stratos", 1971 Countach adapted form the 1974 Bravo Concept ?, I have many more) or misleading info. Also I understand the short time constraints of the format but what you offered had absolutely no depth, just mentioning the names of Franco Scaglione, Giorgetto Giugiaro and Marc Deschamps, all of whom were lead designers at the firm would allow people to gain a much better understanding of the influence in every major era of the studio. Also would allow anyone to make a simple Google search if they want to know more. You know every car story is ultimately about people, and Bertone's story is much more than Marcello Gandini. Having watched this episode with all the bad info greatly undermines for me the accuracy of what is being said in After/Drive from now on. I really hope you will do your homework better in the future. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the show, I just want it to be fun, informative and accurate despite the topic.

@drive

9 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the lack of depth. Originally, the premise was to start a conversation down here in the comments about Bertone and viewers' favorite designs. The Bertone legacy is way to deep for just a conversation, and unfortunately we're not a documentary show. Naturally, much was left out. As for the inaccuracies, I apologize for the Stratos concept misspeak. (I had a senior moment on the name.) I'll add an annotation. I'm standing by "Ferrari era," as a quick way to talk about the late '60s to mid 70s Bertone designs, though I'll admit it would have been more accurate to call it the "Dino era."

@N1kk3l

9 жыл бұрын

/DRIVE First of all, so nice of you to the care at all about Bertone. I'm very happy that you're trying to engage people on the subject. And I do love the show. And I realize it's a talk show and it's shot live and in the heat of the moment you can make a mistake or two and that's fine. But it was obvious to me that you guys didn't even went trough the Wikipedia article in preparation. And that's what really prompted me to comment, there was so many things that weren't correct, I just listed a few, there were much more. As for the Dino a fun fact, if I remember correctly Pininfarina which are Ferrari's design house of choice were taking too long to design the car, and Ferrary went to Bertone with the project. And the resulting Dino 308 GT4 is believed to be a design which they had laying around originally intended for Lamborghini's Urraco. Designs studios had such practice back then. The Miura design is still debated, it may have been based on something Giugiaro originally penned for Bizzarini, this would explain why it's so different from the other cars Gandini did. Then again it might not be, people involved have different stories. Thanks for replying, and keep it up. I do appreciate you bringing After/Drive back to KZread, a platform that might not be satisfying you financially.

@drive

9 жыл бұрын

Kostadin Kostadinov Maybe we WILL do a documentary.

@N1kk3l

9 жыл бұрын

/DRIVE If you do decide to do a documentary on this or another studio, or about car design in general, I would be glad to help. I'm a designer myself (although in another field) and maybe can be offer something interesting to go in the videos.

@drive

9 жыл бұрын

Kostadin Kostadinov Will do. Thanks!

I understand why the X 1/9 wasn't mentioned in the piece, but for those of us who began driving during that period, it's the first time a design house was badged along with the manufacturer on car that many of us owned and drove.

My first car was a Fiat X1/9, although not the most beautiful Bertone, it is probably one of the most affordable Bertone's of the era.

'00-'05 Opel/Vauxhall Astra Coupe, the wedge is subtle but the roofline is a graceful sweep, somehow it works and I love it.

Haha what a coincidence having this show go up just hours after Jay Leno posts a video about a 1967 Bertone Pirana!

FIAT X 1/9

There are many that spring to mind BUT, you already have my number 1. That B99 Jaguar concept.

Fiat 850 Spider, 1969-70. I had two in college, yellow one and a dark green one. Strong engine. Oversteering swing axles on bald tires. Never had any problems except rust. I think Nuccio's young protege Gorgetto Guigaro drew it. The Fiat X1/9 by Gandini and modified by Dallara is a jewel ('icsunonove'). Today I have a nikon D800 camera which I believe was designed by Guigaro/Ital Design.

james may with the weird eyes on the left said "you know" about 800 times, and the guy on the right almost didn't talk at all. because the guy in the middle kept interrupting

have to say guys the Opel coupe, Alfa GT's they made are great ways for the masses to enjoy design. Opel coupe has the shoulder ironed line you spoke about and GT too has the soft rounded roof with strong crisp shoulder lines

Cool episode, but could you make that pointless sensorship beep at 22 minutes any louder? I'm not entirely certain all of my neighbours heard it.

@PhattyMo

9 жыл бұрын

Indeed. It's more offensive than the word it covers up.

@zakarioze

9 жыл бұрын

PhattyMo I saw it as humorous. Your life must be pretty frustrating if a quick beep can offend you so

Fiat X1/9. It includes all the elements of what Bertone stood for. It redefined what could be accomplished design-wise in a compact size and it still looks pretty fresh by today standards. Mid-engine, rear drive, light body - this design could've stood the test of time with gradual evolution and compete with cars like Lotus or the MX5..

I like the AfterDrive videos a lot, I do have a suggestion though. Whenever you talk about a car I'd like to be able watch the image of the car for a little more than a few seconds. Maybe have a small image of the car in one of the corners for as long as you talk about that specific car. Other than that, great episode.

Surprised there was no mention of the Iso Grifo. My favourite.

@50acre

9 жыл бұрын

***** That would be baller. A Grifo with the with the Chevy would be easier to have, I think. And it looks better than the later models with hideaway headlamps and Ford engine.

All of the designs that were acknowledged in the video are very interesting automobiles. The last one that Mike mentioned was the most interesting to me. Recently the concept car for the Lincoln Continental was released, and you can clearly see a resemblance between it and the Jaguar B99. One of the more interesting features that should have been carried over to the Continental was the suicide doors. The B99 concept proves that suicide doors are not a dated look, and can fair quite well in today's market.

The Lancia Stratos and early 60s to late 70s Alfa Romeo GTV are my two favorite designs. Up until today, I didn't know that Bertone designed those cars. I'm liking that Jaguar concept too.

My favourite is the Opel/Vauxhall Astra Turbo Coupe. Mainly because I had one and I loved it. Though to be honest my actual favourite is the Bertone Mantide.

The 1974 Bertone Bravo. Timeless elegance; case closed!

I really like that"Maston Artin" as I've heard in past...

I love all the old Lamborghinis. My favorite would have to be the Miura. Maserati Khamsin is pretty cool, too.

Enjoy the videos and the discussion. Would have been nice to see a little more of the cars as you were describing the design details. Maybe a smaller picture in picture for longer. Just a suggestion, I look forward to more Drive videos!

Bertone designed cars are pieces of ART 100%

For some reason I always think of Charles Grodin when I see Zack. It's the weirdest thing.

Really enjoyable discussion. Great video. Fave Bertone design would be the 1950s BAT concepts. Surprised nobody mentioned them. Right off-the-scale design.

Maserati Khamsin, FIAT X1/9 (yes, I said it), AM Rapide Bertone Jet 2+2

@Zzuni1

9 жыл бұрын

Hey bro' ! I totally agree with your choice of the Maserati Khamsin. I've had my Khamsin for 11 years and I can't drive it without being photographed, smiled at, women giving me phone numbers at the traffic lights, or being stopped by admirerers. The police have stopped me a couple of times not because I'm a Black Brother in the U.K. driving such an exotic car - but because the like the car so much !! Anyway, I'm surprised AFTER/DRIVE didn't mention it along with the Lamborghini Espada, SIlhouette, Urracco, Jalpa, Iso Griffo, Bertone Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo Montreal.

Nice vid. I agree with nearly all the choises. The first one, the Bravo, was already spot on. I do however drive one of Bertones best as my every day car! I am talking about the XM, the last of the great Citroens, Mine is of a later vintage but I put the first, asymmetricly badged nose on it and also added the same flat but still slightly rounded hubcaps on that where originally on the windtunnel models. Both further accentuate the discussed slightly off the wall futurism that made Bertone designs so great. Being one of the last edgy cars it looked a bit long in the tooth for quite a few years but people start to turn their heads again. An example: Last year I drove it through Italy and an 18 year old guy almost literaly dropped of his bike.You could see him think: Ah, un XM style Bertone! In its dark green metalic paint it still looks like the ultimate mob car of the future, especially in that bright Italian sunlight! Don't even get me started on the unique hydropneumatic suspension system and the overall driving experience. It's the ultimate Grand Tourer, a spaceship in disguise.

These are all great picks, tough to argue with them... although there's just way, way too many great Bertone designs to give a definitive answer. Lamborghini Espada and Alfa-Romeo Montreal immediately come to mind for me (in addition to those already mentioned) since both show the transition from the curvy era to the Gandini/wedge/sexy black plastic era. I also really love the jet-age styling excursions from the early '50s; didn't realize the Fiat Turbina was a Bertone design (love that photo with it and the Z.E.R.)

Great conversation, and some really great picks...but damn just cuss, that beep scared the shit out of me!

the Bravo was the direct predecessor of the Lamborghini Urraco, Silhouette and Jalpa. All three deserve mention.. they were fantastic designs.

99% looking at the presenters, 1% looking at the cars. Not good enough!

Good episode. You will find a lot of Navajo styling cues in Gandini's Citroen BX.

real nice do have AFTER/DRIVE back for real

Absolutely the Bravo is my favorite. I so wish that Lamborghini had actually produced this car. Not just the rear wheel arch, but the integrated louvers on the back and that central indented line around the car that cuts through the BRAVO logo is just an amazingly elegant design.

While it was never considered a supercar. The Fiat X-19 was way ahead of it's time in design and was a very capable sports car in SCCA road racing & autocross and I might add a pure blast to drive.

those cars on the background

Very glad you didn't forget the B99. I think it is awesome and possibly the best saloon ever designed. Just one thing, you mentioned that it's an 04 car, I think it's more like a 09. By the way, I own a very rare, at least in Spain (only 7 were sold), volvo 780 bertone

I really wish they would do a review of the iconic S4 B5 I would even give my own S4 B5 to review :) keep it up!

My favorite House of Bertone design is the Lancia Stratos hands down!

1962 Ferrari 250 GT SWB Spéciale Bertone Série II www.viaretro.com/wp-content/gallery/bertonezagatoduel/1961_Bertone_Ferrari_250GT_04.jpg Magnificent design.

CARABO. Mainly because it was so over the top. Stratos Concept is my #1 choice, but Carabo is a very close second.

Did Bertone design the Iso Grifo? Because that car is absolutely beautiful.

The B99 wasn't 2004, it was 2011, and was nominally an attempt for Bertone to show how they'd do what we now know as the new XE. It was after the XF and new XJ had firmly established Jaguar's new design language, though, and the C-X16 that became the F-Type was shown just six months after the B99 was displayed. Kinda made that whole "setting the stage" of it being from 10 years ago leading into a long slide for Bertone seem pretty poorly informed. What it shows more than anything is that in the closing years, Bertone was pretty out of step with the auto industry - a design that had nothing in common with the rest of the lineup pitched for Jaguar's entry-level 3-series fighter? With suicide doors and a leaping jaguar that Jag had clearly left behind? That thing might have made sense as a custom build super-luxury XJ variant to go up against the RR Wraith or what is now the S-Class Maybach, though.

the seats they have sitting on the tire. what kind of seats are they?

love After/Drive keep it up

Haha "Delete that" NOPE. Big cut earlier, though. I was thinking about how similar the Ghia lines are to Bertone though, too. Don't feel bad

Not sure if you mentioned this, but while the Alfa GTV was a House of Bertone design, I believe the designer at Bertone was Gourgetto Gougaro (Sp) who went on to leave Bertone and design other classics like the Volkswagon Rabbit and other iconic designs.

the Lancia Stratos and the Lamborghini Countach (Marcello Gandini) are amongst my favorite edgy car designs done by Bertone =)

my favourite bertone design has to be the BMW 3200 CS. It influenced the design of BMWs so much. but that jag .. oh my god why didntthey make that

Interesting discussion. Would prefer if the images of the cars were left on view for longer. Still a fascinating overview.

I drive a 2007 Alfa Romeo GT which is a Bertone design, a beautiful car in the flesh and even sports a Bertone badge!

My favorites: Countach, Alfa GTV, Fiat X19

the 105 gt was made in Portugal well into the 80´s , just to the portuguese market , movauto factory

Great idea for an episode however perhaps it would be an idea to show more of the vehicles you are discussing rather than three fella's sat on old car seats in a garage........come on guys get it together!

sem duvida para mim o projeto mais lindo do Bertone são o Lancia stratros HF Zero e Lamborghini Athon Speedster, o design é atemporal.

Wow i forgot about that Jaguar, awesome. Alfa gt junior, montreal. Alfa Carabo, the three alfa BAT and the one i really loved the Alfa Romeo Pandion

The HF Stratos concept, because Michael Jackson turned into it in Moonwalked, and I loved that movie as a kid. I always liked those scenes with the car in it.

@crusher9485

6 жыл бұрын

Moonwalker, darn ac!

Bertone Alfa Romeo Carabo 1968, Fiat X19, Ferrari 308 gt4

28 minute video about Bertone design concepts, 27 minutes of looking at you guys while you talk about them. WTH?

The Carabo is probably unbeatable to me, but that green plays a major role. I might not even care about tye design if it was trope italian red.

I owned a 67 Mazda Luce, which was apparently designed by Bertone for Fiat, but they didn't want it.

Great video again guys How about the Fiat X1/9 designed by bertone. A lot of interest in it's conception mainly due to American legislation/protectionism. Perhaps the Largest volume car they made which had true bertone exotic essence. Truly epic handling even if it had a smaller engine. That just made it more practical and affordable. Maybe one of the coolest names for a mass produced car too. It also had a great influence on the sports car market, Toyota mr2 for example. And you can currently buy one for an absolute song!

Lambretta GP motors scooter is my favorite of all his work.

The Ferrari 250 GT that Bertone styled is (IMO) the most beautiful Ferrari ever, as well as Bertone's most traditionally beautiful design (followed by the Muira). Of course, this isn't what Bertone is known for, but these cars remind us that they aren't just the 'House of Wedge'... Of course, the ALFA 2600 Sprint coupe, Montreal and Sprint GTV are also superb designs, if not particularly 'timeless'... Of all the Bertone 'wedge' cars, the Lancia Stratos Zero concept is the finest of them all - period. It's the purest form, and strikes a unique balance between curves and straight-line wedge. The rear-view mirrors alone, are a tiny work of genius...

I wonder why Jaguar actually didn't make that car for real. It looks amazing, especially in 2004, that car could come out today and still look modern. It was definitely ahead of it's time. As you guys mentioned it wasn't too crazy so I could see it being an actual production car. Good competitor to the Bentley Continental GT.

Not to worry. The turbo brick enthusiast are still very much around.

Athon. I was right in '80 and now! Marzal nice too.

for me it's only only choose, Lancia Stratos

I know this is way off topic, but my father used to own a Volvo that was designed by Bertone. I don't remember the exact model of the vehicle, bit it was way ahead of it's time as far as design. I told him we should keep the car, but ultimately we ended up selling it. if anyone has a picture of this vehicle I would appreciate it.

Back when real cars were made in the sense that people and companies built cars out of pride and to demonstrate to the world and to the other car manufacturers that they were the best. Damn they were actually competing with each other.

When will you guys be getting the GT4??

It's hard to tell who stole from who… the Bravo has the Countach wheels, the Pininfarina belt line and looks almost exactly like Giugiaro's Esprit! Interesting show (though neons suck)

1942 Alfa Romeo 6C 2500 SS Coupe, 1952 Abarth 1500 Coupe Biposto, 1953 Alfa Romeo B.A.T. 5, 1953 Arnolt Bristol, 1953 Aston Martin DB 2/4, 1953 Aston Martin DB2/4 Drophead Coupe, 1953 Dodge Zeder, 1953 Fiat Siata 8V, 1954 Alfa Romeo 2000 Sportiva, 1954 Alfa Romeo B.A.T. 7, 1954 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint, 1954 Aston Martin DB2/4 Spider, 1955 Alfa Romeo B.A.T. 9, 1955 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider, 1956 Abarth 750, 1956 Abarth Record, 1957 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Speciale, 1957 Fiat Stanguellini 1200 Spider, 1957 Jaguar XK150, 1958 Abarth Alfa Romeo 1000, 1958 NSU Sport Prinz, 1959 Maserati 3500 GT Coupe, 1959 OSCA 1500, 1960 Ferrari 250 GT Prototype EW, 1960 Gordon-Keeble GT, 1961 ASA 1000 GT, 1961 Aston Martin DB4 GT Jet, 1961 BMW 3200 CS, 1961 Ferrari 250GT, 1961 Maserati 5000 GT Coupe, 1962 Iso Rivolta GT, 1962 Simca 1000/1200S Coupe, 1963 Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint HS, 1963 Chevrolet Corvair Testudo, 1963 Iso Grifo, 1964 Alfa Romeo Canguro, 1965 Fiat 850 Spider, 1965 Ford Mustang, 1966 Jaguar FT, 1966 Lamborghini Miura, 1966 Porsche 911 Roadster, 1967 Alfa Romeo Montreal Expo Prototipo, 1967 Fiat 125 Executive, 1967 Jaguar Pirana, 1967 Lamborghini Marzal, 1968 Alfa Romeo Carabo, 1968 Bertone Panther, 1968 Lamborghini Espada, 1968 Lamborghini Miura Roadster, 1969 Autobianchi Runabout, 1969 BMW 2800 Spicup, 1969 Fiat 128 Coupe, 1969 Iso Lele, 1970 Bertone Shake, 1970 BMW 2200 TI Garmisch, 1970 Lancia Stratos Zero, 1971 Lamborghini Countach, 1971 Lancia Stratos HF, 1972 Citroen Camargue, 1972 Fiat X1/9, 1972 Maserati Khamsin, 1972 Suzuki Go, 1973 NSU Trapeze, 1974 Fiat 127 Village, 1974 Lamborghini Bravo, 1974 Maserati Quattroporte II, 1975 Fiat 131 Abarth, 1975 Fiat Visitors Bus, 1975 Fiat X1/9 Dallara, 1976 Alfa Romeo Navajo, 1976 Ferrari Rainbow, 1977 Jaguar Ascot, 1978 Lancia Sibilo, 1979 Volvo Tundra, 1980 Lamborghini Athon, 1981 Mazda MX-81 Aria, 1982 Citroen BX, 1983 Alfa Romeo Delfino, 1984 Chevrolet Ramarro, 1986 Citroen Zabrus, 1988 Lamborghini Genesis, 1990 Chevrolet Corvette Nivola, 1991 Lotus Emotion, 1992 Bertone Blitz, 1992 Fiat Cinquecento RUSH, 1994 Bertone ZER, 1994 Fiat Punto Racer, 1994 Porsche Karisma, 1995 Lancia Kayak, 1995 Opel Maxx, 1996 Citroen Berlingo Coupe de Plage, 1996 Fiat Enduro, 1996 Opel Slalom, 1997 Alfa Romeo Sportut , 1998 Bertone Pickster, 1999 Alfa Romeo Bella , 2000 Bertone Slim, 2001 Oldsmobile O4, 2001 Opel Filo, 2001 Saab 9X, 2002 Bertone Novanta, 2003 Alfa Romeo GT Coupe, 2003 Bertone Birusa, 2003 Opel Insignia, 2004 Aston Martin Jet 2+2, 2005 Cadillac Villa, 2006 Bertone Suagna, 2007 Chery A6CC Coupe, 2007 Fiat Barchetta, 2008 Bertone B.A.T. 11, 2009 Bertone Mantide, 2010 Alfa Romeo Pandion, 2011 Jaguar B99, 2011 Jaguar B99 GT, 2012 Bertone Nuccio, 2013 Aston Martin Jet 2+2

If Nissan were to "borrow" that Sprint GT design for their Sentra or Versa it would sell like crazy today. Japanese automakers would've benefitted greatly from the House of Bertone.

It's a tie between the Ferrari 250 GT SWB, Lancia Stratos, and the Mantide.

@marsvltor2

9 жыл бұрын

Fred - the SWB was by Pininfarina...

@bogdansandu7873

9 жыл бұрын

marsvltor2 Check this out and let's talk about Bertone after...@1959

@bogdansandu7873

9 жыл бұрын

marsvltor2 @1959

@bogdansandu7873

9 жыл бұрын

marsvltor2 Sorry tried to paste a link and it did not work, not sure why... at any rate google Ferrari 250 Wax and follow www.rmauctions.com Ferrari leggenda e passion... many pics and detailed stories about Bertone, Ferrari and how cars were 'born' in those days.

How about the 1984 Chevrolet Ramarro..... cool sliding doors and the view from the rear is stunning. And the steering column......if there were an Apple Icar, it would be right at home.

@GrussimoGarage

9 жыл бұрын

Ha! You are correct. Keep the videos going. BTW, any CCC's out on the West Coast yet?

If you were familiar with Navaho woven rug iconography you’d understand why they named it Navaho.

Going with the Fiat X1/9. Only because I used to have one.

Volvo 780 Bertone, now that's pretty

Volvo 780 coupe(because I had one)

awesome)

Is that our boy Negan?

My list - #1 Alfa Romeo BAT 7, #2 Lamborghini Miura and #3 Alfa Romeo Canguro (BAT 5 would be #4)

The Bertone VGT is insane and it may become the last Bertone design ever. Unfortunately, it may not even make it into Gran Turismo 6 as it was planned. If you want to see, google search GRAN TURISMO 6: BERTONE VISION GT CONCEPT LEAKED.

those e30s are life 😍🙌

Is this the back of Vespa Brooklyn?

To me, the most beautiful car from Bertone, and not only, is the Lamborghini Miura, The B E S T

Is that Matt Farah's Vanquish in the back?

@tavshedfjols

9 жыл бұрын

I think it may be his car, before it was shipped over to the UK.

My favourite car from Bertone is the Alfa Romeo gtv 2000 Bertone!

SUPER DESIGN

My first car was a 1978 Bertone FIAT X 1/9. I wished it would have been a better car.