Were you surprised by the winner? What hardtail vs. full suspension challenge would you like us to try next? Let us know in the comments 💬 👇

@JasonFoxLCB

Жыл бұрын

I'm surprised that Rich was the ultimate winner - making Isaac do all the climbs. 😆

@gmbn

Жыл бұрын

@@JasonFoxLCB 😂 Not wrong!

@dangrows_za4798

Жыл бұрын

Id love to see a trail riding comparison between the two. I just bought a hardtail. In the future I'd like to know why buying the full sus would be so much better. Also a maintenance comparison between the two

@peterfranzjr.1190

Жыл бұрын

Isaac is a fantastic counter to Ollie. I'm glad that GMBN has someone to dig into the calculations now!!

@jpandriesse3954

10 ай бұрын

No, wasn't surprised, maybe a little with the technical climb. I would love to see what the needed power/watts is for both bikes if you do a 75 -100 km tour with about a 1500-2000hm difference, on mixed terrain (70-80% singletrack). And a conclusion from the rider how the experience was, besides the cold hard numbers. Loved this video by the way ;)

I would love to see a hardtail vs full suspension when it come to long distance rides, bikepacking, adventure riding etc.

@lostinature

Жыл бұрын

would watch 👍

Great show, loving Isaac and Rich as a presenter combo. Please don’t be afraid to nerd out and do science, especially having someone who understands and can explain it. Here’s hoping for more GCN for grown ups. There’s loads of us who don’t mind some longer form and intelligent content. Top work lads. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

Surprising to see how close the results were, and also a bit surprising to hear Isaac’s comments on the differences in feel. Great to see such attention to the scientific details too! It’s not all about performance though (or even cost)- I really don’t choose my bikes based on what is faster or more efficient. I choose my bikes based on what is the most fun to ride on my favorite trails…which is why I only ride hardtails now! (When I get a bit older I’m sure I’ll have more fun on a squishy bike tho lol)

@markmoreno7295

6 ай бұрын

Glad to hear that I am not the only one who calls them “squishy” bikes! But just to quaff those who wonder, yes I have a Ripley which in my town makes the riding pleasant due to our pot-holed infested roads. My road bike I use for longer rides on smoother rides.

Well done, Isaac & Rich! You took a potentially vague and multitudinous set of variables and kept it all very 'real world' in the testing. I enjoy geeking out on stats as well, but you resisted the temptation to lean too much on that stuff and kept it real! Good on ya.

My first dually arriving today! Love the comparison content

My local bike shop recommended my first real bike being a hardtail. After watching this, I'm glad they did. Been fun learning on it, that's for sure!

Best video for a long while. Goes to show that decent modern Hardtails are very capable bikes 👍🏻👍🏻

When I used to race marathon XC category mtb, after several seasons on a hard tail I went to full suspension. Being able to save some energy by having the bike absorb some of the abuse, and more line options makes a world of difference over longer distances and time. Even a suspension seat post can be worth a tiny bit of extra weight. YMMV

I wasn't surprised at the overall result but really surprised how close on the rooty damp middle test. Excellent test and top job from Rich, showing yet again his expertise at delegation 🤣

@gmbn

Жыл бұрын

Working smarter, not harder 🧠 The guys were surprised by the results too, as you can probably tell!

@richardpayne5176

Жыл бұрын

Adapt, improvise, overcome 😂😂😂

I'd like to see a comparison of some of the budget bikes that people actually learn on. Cheap new hardtails (£500-700) used bikes, parts bin bikes. Is a 2023 £600 hardtail better than a 2013 Used full squish. Just my thoughts.

4:50 Poor Isaac, he gave an entire "physics lecture" and none of this made it through the editing 😂

Great pairing of presenters... very enjoyable video for sure!

Just for fun could you do a test where a person goes up a trail with a lighter bike 10-12kg with a weighted vest (10kg) and then with a heavier bike 20-25 kg (maybe even electric with no motor help) without the vest? Would be a fun comparison and video.

Hardtail vs Fullඞ

@joelibrary7359

Жыл бұрын

sussy baka

Hardtail for the win

I think for the technical climbs, even though he was putting the same power to the pedals, his heart rate was probably higher on the hardtail because he was having to work a lot to absorb the bumps.

Surprising. Im new to mountain biking. Coming from road cycling, definitely feel mkre confortable with my hardtail. I guess as you suggested, learn on this, and maybe later upgrade.

Yes please, more hard tail content, even better if it’s slack enduro hard tails

Don't mind a hardtail, but I love the smoothness of a full suspension. I take more time up the fire road for the comfort of the full suspension

Yeehaa mountain biking and science; two of my favourite things Love the glint in Isacs eye when he talks data 😊

I have been looking for a video exactly like this one! The only test that was surprising was the tech climb. Unfortunately, though, that trail looks downright smooth compared to the trails in my area. I think the bigger the rocks and roots are, the more of an advantage the full sus has.

Would have loved if you would share the riders height when you compare and show these beautiful bikes. Many here are inspired in our buying decisions and would be nice to know what sizes experienced riders choose. Rich on a large Nukeproof Scout, how tall? Thanks for yet another great video!

a full squish built for pedaling will be easier to clean more technical climbs. Its nice to stay in saddle and spin away than having to manage body position and weight transfer (kinda like dynamic yoga) on a HT. that said, the amount of watts spent on a FS always be higher and a HT will be more 'effecient'. what will leave you more tired at the end of the day will depend on the trail

great video, don't mind a bit of nerding at all. Didn't know which way it was going to go. I guess though for energy conservation putting those same watts on the sus vs the hardtail, is going to be less effort on the sus? So over a full XC race for example you stay fresher longer?

Rich his personalized Nukeproof Scout is 🔥

I think you can get more details on difference in efficiency, maybe some tire patterns faster on hardtails and some faster on full suspension, and the difference in weight of rotating mass as on rims and tires might be double the effect of bikes weight difference

Hardtail seat angles get steeper as you sink into the fork.

If most or your riding is smooth fire roads uphill and standing up on the descends, then a hard tail is fine. But riding bumpy bridleways and fields while sitting down I wish I had a full sus XC bike, I can’t take that saddle massaging my ass anymore 😂

That's very good news 😄

It comes down to the efficiency of the hardtail. You will not losing Watts from the bombing of the suspension no matter how small how supportive it is. The hardtail has an insert in the wheels which makes it harder to rotate, it's heavier than the full suspension but still one on anything but the most technical climbs were traction is the most important factor all due to the efficiency of the drivetrain.

If you have the budget to spend an additional $2k for the full sup bike, it should not be surprising that it outperforms the hard tail. Other than budget, though, the hard tail is better for new riders who want to fully appreciate the sport or just want to have more fun and literally feel the ground that they are riding on.

Suggestion: What is modern geometry and why is it here or better?

It would be interesting to test climbing a trail bike with the lockout on vs. fully open rear shock. I have found that the firm setting sort of unbalances my suspension and it feels like more energy loss as all the bumps get dumped into the fork. Could also be poor rider response…

If you're riding around every day and doing a variety of terrain but you're not racing or pretending like you are, HT will do the job. If you're doing marathon riding or racing for long distance, you're better of with full squish. I prefer HT for ease of maintenance pe personally.

HT for the win ! :))))

Isaac geeking out sounds a bit like a MTB version of Dr Bridgewood :) better looking of course. Anyone looks better on mtb. love it.

😂Neil taking notes best bit

if you just to recreative biking, go hardtail but if you want your ass not to suffer and have the money, get a full suspension

Seen that comin.. you have been debating this for years. Once a month atleast. Doubt the outcome is over going to change.

When does Isaac get a proper jersey?

Can I get the full video of the white board??

@sid06

Жыл бұрын

I was honestly looking forward to the rest. Isaac was explaining it interestingly.

@OmnieStar

Жыл бұрын

@@sid06 Same!

I may put my rear sus in firm if im on tarmac og fireroad, but when i am on the singletrack/trail i dont have time for that!

they should drop some fertile ground on those roots if its a main path

Nice video, but we are missing hart rate. Watts are power, HR should show how hard for the body was to generate this energy. Now we can not see full picture.

I like using my hardtail and not just because it was what I could afford :)

Recently my wife showed me up on her hard tail. We did 10 Under The Ben, I was on my XC Giant full sus Anthem. She did 10 minutes per lap faster despite having to trickle down many techy descents!!

I'd bet if the guy on the full sus locked out his rear suspension, he'd be much faster on the climbs.

Fat bike hardtail with a 4.8 inch Jumbo Jim rear tyre with correct PSI is a rapid climber.

Hmm. Then why does WC XCO all ride FS?

What i guess is, that on a full sus, you will be able to put down more power, without the back wheel slipping. It's just a guess - i don't own a full sus and maybe never will :D Maybe one day - a Nukeproof (Hardtail) :D

More power wins all the time. ❤

Isaac, you're such a nerd... And I thought I was bad...🤣Cracking vid though; keep them coming. ANd Rich, did Isaac make you feel old? Is that why you didn't ride? 😬

I wonder how a light weight XC build on the hardtail would compare.

What is the steepest hill with a length of 1 km an average rider can climb? Thanks!

Was the gearing the same between the two? Even a small difference would make the same effort go faster for the bike with a gearing that puts more distance into it with each stroke, but it might feel the same to the rider.

I was waiting to hear about the tire tread between the two bikes. I don't think I heard anything mention outside air pressure. It is--after all--where the power meets the ground. If I was riding packed trails and pavement most of the time, there's no way I'd bother with a full suspension.

@exothermal.sprocket

Жыл бұрын

@@Isaac-Mundy Yeah I guess I didn't hear him specify, unless I was asleep during that part.

They should make a back shock that locks from a press of a button to switch from hardtail and full suspension seamlessly.

@gmbn

Жыл бұрын

There are electronic lock-outs on some XC race bikes now that work like this 👍

@bottle1211

Жыл бұрын

@@gmbn nice!

I’ve got: a Whyte G160s (full suss) a On One Fatty (120mm fork and 4” tyres) a Titus Fireline (130mm fork and 2.6” tyres) And going by my Strava segments, it’s the fat bike and Fireline that give me all my fastest times - uphill AND downhill. Full suss is overkill for 90% of riders and rides. Unless it’s proper mountain biking - like traversing Munros or other mountains - or you’re doing jump parks like Dyfi then there’s no need for anything other than a hardtail.

Before I even watch this I can tell you(as an X cx racer) It depends on the type of climb and how much grip is required. Most times the lightest bike is the quickest up hill.

Isaac Mundy - The Ollie Bridgewood of GMBN

27.5&29 hardtail vs mullet hardtail please.....

Where is Blake? I demand more Blake! I miss him(((

I own all the bikes because they are all great. And because I am financially irresponsible.

recently bought a top of the range full suss after years of hardtail and i hate it going to sell it soon and by a more aggressive hardtail for me full sus are slow and boring

hmm but that's a hardtail with about 140mm front suspension if I'm not wrong, usually Hardtails bikes are 100mm, of course pedaling efficiency wasn't as expect while climbing with that amount of travel on the hardtail.

I wonder if anyone have tested filling big fat tyres with helium, and felt if it does anything with the weight and how the bike rides.

150mm front fork? Try it with a 100mm. I ride a ProCal 9.6 and while I love the bike, that 100mm gives my kidney's a workout over the roots/rocks, but man can it climb. I have a cheaper 2019 XCal with a 100mm travel and it is just brutal. Beyond belief brutal.

For me hardtrail climbs easily because full suspension is more heavy in the pocket😂. Full suspension is expensive to maintain. I use Chinese 3x10 hard trail bike with ltwoo a7 gearset. I ride in hilly region of nepal

@Psi-du2lw

Күн бұрын

@@deepakgurung3853 Now that's using MTB in its natural habitat

Isaac also showing he is GMBN’s James May 😂

I had a hard tail,, couldn't really ride up hills ,,back tire kept jumping and I lost my footage,, now I have a full suspension lamere carbon fiber,, much better for me,, but,, way more money 😂😂😂

Never thaught I would hear phonk in a GMBN video

I guess it's the hardtail that will surely win because of it's efficiency of climbing a hill without any bounc efron the rear haha😜

@flatpedalswinmedals7274

Жыл бұрын

Plus you aren't hauling the extra weight. 👍

@garethh2240

Жыл бұрын

@@flatpedalswinmedals7274 extra weight?

@sersolo3112

Жыл бұрын

@@garethh2240 the rear suspension and whole linkage and arm in the rear duhh

@garethh2240

Жыл бұрын

​@@sersolo3112, try actually watching the video. The full sus is lighter by about 500g..

@bryanmiller5692

4 ай бұрын

@@garethh2240 most full suspension are much heavier than hardtails

Would the added weight of a locked out full suspension vs a hardtail make much difference? Not much tbh. The riders fitness would make more

Why would you do the final test as a steep smooth climb? Should have been a proper technical climb as each test would be progressively rougher.

So I bought a full suspension bike after riding my hardtail for over 10yrs. Love my full suspension bike. But still thinking about getting a newer hardtail bike like the nukeproof scout. I'm just worried that I'll gravitate to the hardtail and my full sus will be left collecting dust. Lol

@oiyile1971

Жыл бұрын

Re-sell if you can!😂

After about 3 years the last Keurig stopped working kzread.infoUgkxBrV-RbF5Nk0Rlt9i15aao-YMzqzTG8Vf initially was able to unblock, however eventually we couldn't fix. That one was a replacement unit sent by the manufacturer after we had problems with our very first Keurig. This works fine (lol, at least for now) however I didn't realize the water reservoir was so much smaller than our prior unit. With 2 people having one or two cups of coffee each morning, it seems like I'm refilling it daily. Otherwise just happy to have the convenience of pod coffee vs. making a morning pot.

Hard to say, as I wasn't there, but given that the bikes weigh about the same, you used the firm setting, and even the tech climb didn't look all that tech to be honest, I am not necessarily that surprised. Also, the definition of "efficiency" is worth exploring a little. Your type of test examines the efficiency of the _bike_. I.e.: power to pedals makes what result in terms of time to the top. Nothing wrong with that - it was what you set out to. But given the conditions (weight, firm setting and not too techy) these two bikes are on very even ground. But there's another type of efficiency: rider and bike efficiency. It seems you touched upon it at the end of the video - so one thing is the power that is put to the pedals - but how much is burned in the rider to put that power into the pedal. There can easily be differences. Probably not that relevant for the sort of riding you were examining for here - ie. the casual rider - but for long epic rides it is worth considering where it is easier to stay fresh minded, etc.

What I'm seeing is something you can't measure which is just look how much effort he is having to put into his body movement on the HT compared to the full sus, he is using less upper body muscles movement on the full sus @11:46 test 2 tech climb the canyon is alot more balanced over tree roots etc, look how much deflection on every tree root the scout has the bars moving around on the bike do that over about 10-15 miles of trails and you will have used alot more energy balancing moving the HT bike around. I have a nuke proof scout and it climbs really bad, it's a slack ht for going down and it climbs worst than a specialized pitch pro 2011 I had years ago, the seat tube angle is 73 degrees on the nukeproof scout and the head tube angle is over 66 degree when sagged it's a pain in the butt to climb. The front end wonders around on climbs due to the slack head tube angle and the rear chain stays (triangle) has no give in it (flex) and you feel everything on the scout HT transmitted threw the bikes frame, you can only do so much with your legs, the geo says it all really.

Predator v hardtail

Disagree in part with your assessment on traction on tech. If your climbing along at a good pace then I think the full suspension will have more traction. But lets be honest how long can most people who are not racers keep up a good pace climbing on tech? Most people slow down and start grinding eventually. THis is where a hardtail or lock out really shines I feel.

I skipped past the nerd and science part, to the riding parts. 😂

Hit a jump park with my hardtail rig. Rear tire hit the knuckle of the table top. No forgiveness. Bucked me over and I broke my collar bone landing on my head/shoulder. Full Sus is Safer!!

Look, to be completely fair, you would have to do the test one day, one bike at a time. We would routinely take a break at the top of local trail. And my legs would turn to limp noodles half the way down. On an e-bike it’s totally different. I can go up and down with very little fatigue. So the fatigue factor makes for an a-weighted situation that you would a super computer to figure out. Bottom line: I don’t care My local trails make a FS boring, too east. A good hardtail is way more fun. I could care less if it’s slower, it feels faster and is scarier, in a good way. But that’s just me doomed to riding in my backyard park. All 600+ acres of fun. I might have to move to GB, seems there’s a lot more going on there than where the mountain bike came into being. I forgot what I was saying....

You guys at GMBN don't have a bike weighing scale? Disappointed with the way you guys covered weight.

So which one was better? I don't have time to sit through a whole video

When the going gets rough. The tough get rear suspension. Lol

This isn’t fair the Nukeproof scout is just the best bike you can buy. 😂

feels easier on the full sus maybe because it is your bike, your body is used to it.

HT

came for the bikes, stayed for the math.

This test would have made so much more sense with two XC bikes 😏

My £500Hardtail smokes any full sus any climb Easy day

It’s curious why Isaac being as tall as he is, rides a Medium

@leongjordan5272

Жыл бұрын

From my exp the canyon spectral runs a little larger than most

Rip i dont have a mtb😢

the differences in anything are not as big as what marketing tells you. marketing is always going to make you think it's night and day. the biggest difference, is YOU. make yourself better. don't believe marketing.

My full sus feels better and faster uphill (not measured it). I think it's largely that it has 12 gears and the hardtail 10 so I can pick a better gear for the hill.

😴nerd time

You guys keep looping in the same thing Full susp is always for downhill and not for climbing Ht is for XC and will be always faster for climbing as you again show us. No matter the bike year, materials, weight, etc...the new thing I enjoyed this time was the HT frame with 65 Head angle, beautiful shape, I'll expecting to finally get one in my country including reasonable price👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Lol im over 100kg on my own.