New topic I keep hearing over and over again that I want to address. People say that an average person would never need to shoot through auto glass at an attacker. Two things here, one; I did say "Duty Ammo" in the title and this ammo IS ammo that is contracted to many police agencies - so that should have been common sense but apparently it is not. Secondly; an average citizen could have to shoot through glass legitimately. Anytime I have ever seen footage of road rage incidents, nearly 100% of them end with a lead driver slamming on their brakes and running back towards the driver behind them. As an armed citizen seeing a man running at them with a weapon, are you going to yell "time out", unbuckle and get out, aim and fire? Probably not, you're welcome. One might hear my example and say "well angle the glass the other way then!" - Well, this video was mostly the testing of duty ammo, and law enforcement usually shoots inward, PLUS....you know, that glass is heavy and it's not standing by magic - I had to use the angling inward against my gel block shelf to even keep the glass standing. Have some common sense before you troll me people. And the viewers that have always been respectful and nice in the comments, I appreciate that. You can say anything you want, just do it respectfully and I won't have a problem with it. Even if you have something legitimate to comment about, starting a comment with "you're so dumb, who would you even _ _ _ _etc" is a good way to get blocked. It's not the content of the comment, it's the attitude.

@TheWalterKurtz

Жыл бұрын

Some people obviously didn't gain anything from the summer of 2020.

@PatriotPaulUSA

Жыл бұрын

Especially on the interwebs, the lack of common decency and just respect to others seems to get progressively worse in each generation, sadly. Now with this latest generation being socially deprived of school friendships and or having to learn while they and their teachers are behind a mask, and a PC screen for a year or so has made it even worse. So much is not learned and passed down anymore in many cases. Imagine the little ones trying to learn to speak behind a mask with the teachers behind them too! It has had to screw them up. So many kids without fathers in the home to teach life experiences, respect and morals etc. Schools and daycare raising the kids 80% of the time, its terrible. Forget about being taught morality, empathy and respect for others in todays public school environment. They can barely get kids to be able to write and do basic math by graduation time in many cases. The stats show it. The bad math, bad english, and tests show it. The bad grammer IRL shows too. We have had decades of the teachers and academia dumbing down the tests, and this is where we are, and what they wanted, evidently.

@kahndumz1852

11 ай бұрын

This is the saddest part of the gun community, people who just want to put everyone down because they are "dumb" instead of having constructive criticism that is openly welcomed in the community. As you stated above its not the content of the comment, but the attitude in which it was said. Why cant the gun groups just be happy we have this awesome right and that people who have never handled or owned a gun are buying them in record numbers and looking for wisdom and information from those who have experience, and this is the kind of comments they see. Shame on us. Keep the videos coming my dude, there are those of us who actually appreciate your videos and tests so we don't have to spend the time and money to try them ourselves.

@tax905972

11 ай бұрын

glass would be on a angle

@dstglizzytwotonez4298

10 ай бұрын

Can we possibly get a federal HST vs HydraShok vs Speer GoldDot vs Underwood GoldDot/XTP. UNDERWOOD usually uses Hornady or Speer bullets in their cases and it would be great to see how all these stack up against one another since they are the most used rounds in the law enforcement community. I really wanna see the HST vs HydraShok and Speer GoldDot all in 124gr/135gr +P loads.

What's cool is that projectile technology is so good that all of these rounds did what they were designed to do.

@ms.annthrope415

9 ай бұрын

They all performed to an objective standard as created by Dr. Martin Fackler for the FBI. Prior to the FBI Protocols, every ammo manufacturer designed their ammo to whatever they felt like doing without regard to any objective tests. The problem, is that like all science theories, it has to he validated by corroborating it to real life shootings. Every scientific theory must be validated or else it is trash. Whether it is a COVID vaccine, vulcanology in predictinf volcanoc eruptions, astrophysics on dark matter calculations, molecular biology, the theory must match the predictability of real life data. So far I have not seen any corroboration between the FBI Protocol to real life shootings. So it is untested and not a validated theory.

@yc2560

2 ай бұрын

But they didn't, three of them underpenetrated.

I have gotten a few comments about glass angle so I thought I would address it. First off, this is a windshield from a 1980's Ford Ranger, so the angle isn't much different than what it would be in the actual vehicle. Secondly, I am not going for deflection with weird flattening of the bullets as I would miss the gel block entirely, rather like what I had said about using a 5" pistol - I want to give the bullets the best chance to do well. This isn't a test necessarily about the best load/ammunition, rather it's a bullet/projectile test so I wanted to push the bullets at a very similar velocity of +/- 1,200 FPS to see what bullet design is superior.

@CJ_On_Target1999

Жыл бұрын

I thought the test was awesome. Why are people always bitchin? Ugh.

@jpb1231000

Жыл бұрын

GREAT JOB!!! I LOVE this vid.... If you have a Tokarev 7.62X25 or CZ 52 I'd love to see a similar test w/ S&B FMJ's, Privi FMJ's and Privi HP's.... Love having my CZ 52 around and would LOVE to see you test it.... I'lll donate the Ammo....

@PatriotPaulUSA

Жыл бұрын

All the FBI testing I read said that HP ammo is always best when shot between 1100-1300 fps. IFIRC. Slower than 1100 and it doesn't perform as well, faster than 1300 same thing. I do have a copy of it, I downloaded it, I need to read it again sometime. 😊

@dontbetreadin4777

Ай бұрын

​@@PatriotPaulUSA I wouldn't trust anything they say or 'Document',

4" barrel Sam! The 5" barrel has become something of a unicorn in the LE world. Think G19 or P320 Carry. Final note, Good job on including the glass. Not a lot of people doing it. Thanks!

The way you hit at 25 yards with ease is proof enough how taking those 75 yard shots is so beneficial! If you can consistently hit at 75, anything less will become easy! Happy Friday!

@nathanlambshead4778

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. I use to love shooting at clay targets set up on a sand backstop at 100 yards with my 6 inch 686 Smith. It taught me trigger control and especially follow through like no other exersize can. At first I had a hard time hitting the sand bank. lol. After awhile, hitting the clay 2 out of every 6 shots, with the other 4 knocking sand all over them. Other shooters at the range did not believe what I was doing till they saw it. Then they tried it. One of them went out and bought a 6 inch revolver. lol

Great test! Man, HSTs impress, no matter what. Wow.

We used 124 grain Gold Dot +P when we switched to the Beretta 92. The armory guys did some tests at a local junkyard and picked this round. That was many years ago so things can change. We were told in training that the angle of the bullet's contact with the windshield makes a difference and bullet deflection could happen as well as lack of penetration. Thanks for another great video.

@PatriotPaulUSA

Жыл бұрын

@adriannenu2320 The FBI Test protocol specs 2 different angles that they have to shoot the auto glass at. (a compound angle) I am sure its exactly for that reason as you said.

@ms.annthrope415

9 ай бұрын

Windshield angle works like angled armor plates. It takes more energy to penetrate a more acute angle windshield than a flat, perpendicular windshield.

@avastyeescurvydogs

5 ай бұрын

Not a complaint but an observation - every bullet is different and a sample size of one doesn’t definitively show us more than what it shows us. A larger sample size would be more reliable, so don’t give up on Gold Dot after a one-round test. I appreciate the test and enjoyed the video!

I’d still run the HST. I like the simple design. It performs very good in most applications.

Shooting through windshield glass is, I believe, more applicable to LE requirements than to armed civilian's needs. The LE protocol was established by the FBI... which recently selected the Hornady 9 mm +P Luger 135-grain Critical Duty for their own agents. I do not recall seeing much in the way of 135-grain JHPs around. Very good testing, I'm impressed how you got it done when windshields are a very tough and challenging barrier to penetrate and not deflect the bullets. Very well done. I'm currently shopping for new 9mm carry ammo and this is, as always, very helpful.

@deamcn6548

Жыл бұрын

Yeah the only other 135 grain 9mm load I'm aware of is the Federal Hydrashock deep. Those are very impressive from what I've seen as well.

@SuperD00D

9 ай бұрын

I have 124 +p hst’s and 135 +p criticsl dutys. I also have 68 gr +p .380 extreme defenders

I've been retired for almost 2 years now, but we used Hornady Critical Duty line of ammunition. We had 3 ois shootings with 9mm 135gr +P. I still carry the 135+P. And the 3 I remember were DRT. Respond accordingly and accurately, y'all!!!

Would love to have seen the Extreme defender +p in 68/90 to see how they did. Great test BTW, fun to watch!

@jeremywilson8334

8 ай бұрын

I just ordered Underwood 90 grain +p. After this video I'm wondering if I should have went heavier for auto glass :/

Great video! Testing all of those high end rounds and adding the windshield glass has to be your best test to date. Honestly they all worked great. I would have thought the Hornady Critical Duty would have penetrated the most through the windshield. I do believe there is a difference between Winchester Defender and Ranger T series. Both are bonded but the Defender doesn't produce the sharp talons. Please do the same test with 40 S&W. I know that's a lot to ask. Thank you for all of your work!

Im a HST & Gold dot kinda guy.. regardless of caliber you can trust your life to those bullets

I'm a HST user, going back to the original Hydra-shok in the early 90s. Two real real world uses turned out my way so I keep using them.

The 124 Gold Dot and HST have been around a while. The Gold Dot 147 grain G2 and the Criticwl duty 135 grain +P are newer and engineered for better penetration through barriers such as auto glass and sheet metal. Trying to hit a target inside of a vehicle is not easy because the barrier mediums are not all that consistent. Angle of the wind shield may or may not have been a variable.

@SuperD00D

9 ай бұрын

The hst and defender did the best on the glass

Excellent real world tests. You have crystal clear goals, Well planned & executed videos & clear thinking. Pleas keep up the excellent work.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I try to visualize what I want to do and then do it.

Great video, I appreciate you taking the time and spending the money to do a thorough test!

Great testing protocol, Sam! One of the best I have seen you do for us. Very comprehensive.

All those rounds are great. Thanks for doing these tests. 👍👍

A much appreciated video! Thanks, Sam. Keep up the great work

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Great work- I love the windshield.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

Awesome vid! Always enjoy your context. You have given me a lot more respect for a 38 special as my edc. I love your respect for revolvers

Great test! Lot of work involved, thanks! Glad that I have HST and Gold Dots in my carry guns. Can’t go wrong with any of them.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. The work wasn't too much more than normal, believe it or not the most difficult was ammo acquisition. Decided to go local on ammo, drove a hundred miles in various towns to get all 124+P lol

@lens7859

Жыл бұрын

@@GunSam well I appreciate you, and hope KZread does also, I sure get hit with a ton of ads.

I LOVE THIS GUY.. straight to the point, and informative🎉

Fantastic vid! Those GDs were clocking very similar to some of the neutered 357 Sig we've seen. But honest 357 ammo and a 5" bbl is amazing. Don't know what your plans are for the rest of the glass but I'd like to see this same test with a 3" gun. And maybe either 357? How would the lighter but powerful 327 do? Great work!

Really cool. Very strange that the GD performed that way. Keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of agencies that use HST use the 147 gr standard pressure. Another similar test through auto glass with the 147 HST (current iteration, 2 skives and visible red or blue primer sealant), 147 GD and retry the 124+p GD would be very interesting. Same with the HST and GD 10mm offerings. The Underwood Barnes rounds too,. Very interesting stuff.

You got a whole ass windshield for the test? Wow that's dedication to your viewers, thank you.

Good comparison. Very interesting and informative. Appreciated! Thank you.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks

My EDC pistol is the Glock G48 with a 4” barrel with Federal HST 124 grain +P JHP. I feel very confident in its expansion for my PD ammo!!! Great video!! I’m a subscriber!!!

Awesome work and data thanks Sam all you do.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Dude… Your reviews are awesome..! Thank You for sharing.! 🍻🇺🇸

Nice video. Thanks for taking the time to test all these rounds. I've always been a huge fan of the PDX-1 Defender rounds and this really further solidifies why. I'd say all of them were respectable and I'd certainly trust the lives of those important to me and myself with them. However, I am partial to the rounds that tend to have larger expansion and create the most cavitation. This is why I generally prefer bonded rounds, overall. Like any responsible concealed carrier, I hope I never have to utilize them for their intended purpose, but it's definitely nice having peace of mind that the round will do exactly what it's designed to do!

Love the channel brother. For real, appreciate the energy it takes to make these things. *Bing banG*

Great test & results. Thank you.

Your reviews are God's work.For the same reason that when I'm in my boat I don't want to have to worry they my life jacket or fire extinguisher will function as advertised 😊

Really cool test. I haven’t seen anybody else do a gel test like this through glass so props for the creativity. It was surprising to me that the gold dot seemed to be the least performing ammo both with and without the glass. Winchester defender impressed the hell out of me. I hadn’t ever considered it but it seemed to do the most damage, maybe even slightly more than the HST. Cool stuff!

@Yetified_Mayhem

Жыл бұрын

Definitely pleasantly surprised by the Defender. And don't own any

Very cool, thanks. I live in the city so I can't do these kind of tests, much appreciated. My carry ammo is Hornady Critical Duty 135 grain (regular and plus, whatever is available).

GS. Good and very interesting video. Always nice distance shooting. Thanks for sharing and take care.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, take care.

Thank you. Very nice 25 and 75 yd shooting. I miss when my vision was that good.

Had a QC defect issue with 9 mm Winchester Defender BJHP +p 124 gr. One round of 20 had brass crushed back from possibly bullet insertion during mfg. Otherwise they worked well both in SAR9 and G3C. Great testing! Thx for the post!

Thanks for the review.

Great test love the channel

@GunSam

2 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Hey man, nice job, nice video! Winchester??? Surprised me too. I really thought HST had everyone. Once again, great video! Awesome!

Great tests!

You deserve so many more subscribers Sam.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Yeah, I been doing this for 16 years. I see channels pop up, in 2 years hit 100k subs with almost no content. I don't get it.

Awesome video. Subscribed!

Hands down! Hornady ZombieMax! I know, it's Almost impossible to get these days... But at the time, It was rated as the most accurate 9mm Ammo available. Accuracy is always, as Aunt Martha used to say, A Very good thing!

@arello3112

7 ай бұрын

I had to look it up that’s really cool. I can only imagine how hard to find they are. And I bet they are a premium! I just started to really get into shooting and carrying in the beginning of this year. Thank you for teaching me something new!

@KandaJE

7 ай бұрын

@@arello3112 They are simply rebranded Hornady XTP - eXtreme Terminal Performance (In the late 90's early 2ks rated as the most accurate 9mm bullet) with a green ballistic plastic insert but in a "Wicked Cool" box. I think they missed the boat by NOT making the ballistic insert Glow in the dark Zombie Green...

Very impressive presentation 👍

Ah yes, the Kryptonite test, pretty much what a windscreen is to ballistic tests. Great video.

Really going above and beyond with the barrier testing. Barriers like auto glass also make a big difference when comparing sectional densities and larger calibers. Big heavy bullets deflect less, and are less dependent on perfect hollow point expansion for adequate terminal performance. More so if the glass is at a greater angle. This kind of testing could really separate the best performers and show caliber differences under difficult conditions.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Now that I have established that a couple of designs here are better than others, I may have to do a caliber war within that design. Like all HST or all Defender in 9mm VS .45 ACP VS .40 S&W VS .357 Sig or something of that nature.

@nothim7321

Жыл бұрын

Do all the calibers....

@artfulalias3984

Жыл бұрын

@@GunSam You probably know. The 357mag load developed for the FBI in the late twenties was a hot 158 grain. It was designed to be effective against the heavily constructed luxury cars gangsters favored. The load developed for the FBI in the late 1980's that started the modern handgun bullet construction race was the 10mm.

@jameysmith2043

Жыл бұрын

​@@GunSam That would be awesome!

I would love to see the same test in 40 S&W.

@jameysmith2043

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

@colt10mmsecurity68

8 ай бұрын

Totally agree!

Traveled out to North Carolina to look at some property. Sitting in Hotel tonight watching your vids. Beautiful weather today close to 80 degees. Best regards

@GunSam

8 ай бұрын

Michigan happened to be like 35 degrees and raining all day. It's 'fun' when January gives me highs of 27 degrees lol. I still film

Nice work, I would like to have seen this test done with the 4” I think that’s what most duty weapons are and most civilians that aren’t carrying the 4”are carrying 3” to 3.7. Thanks for putting this together it was very useful information!😊

@GunSam

3 ай бұрын

Most ammo only gains like 50 FPS on average with this pistol, it's mainly the 115 gr +P and +P+ that gains over 100 FPS VS a 4".

Awesome test and video! My defensive mags are all topped off with either +p Gold Dots or +p HST’s. It’s mainly because old habits die hard. I don’t think it’s a high probability that I’ll have to shoot through glass like an officer may. Also, you’re a heck of a shot, man!

Great comparison.

Yet another awesome video! The problem with law enforcement agencies is that they're restricted to a tight budget. As such, they have no idea what they're missing in terms of effectiveness pertaining to non-expanding barrier-blind projectiles (i.e. Underwood Xtreme Defenders), ESPECIALLY in 357 Sig.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. I plan to test some Xtreme bullets in glass when I get a chance.

@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS

Жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Awesome! I think there's a good number of us who are waiting to see the results! Although the 68 grain is amazing for eliciting devastating tissue damage due to the 2K+ velocities .... the 90 grain XD's have a better ballistic coefficient and should provide better groupings. Either way, the more data on the Underwood XD and XP's .... the better!

@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS

Жыл бұрын

Still trying to figure out why Lehigh hasn't come out with an Xtreme Defender in 115 gr, but oh well.

@mblake0420

Жыл бұрын

​@@TERMINAL-BALLISTICSgimmick

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

@@TERMINAL-BALLISTICS I think that's their Penetrator weight. My guess is 115 gr at that sectional density, not expanding...might over-penetrate even if the nose was the Xtreme Defender and not the penetrator design. I have always thought that the low weight, low sectional density and velocity alone is what makes them work well and not over-penetrate.

Cool test 👍

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Great test! Would love this in .40 cal.

@DinoNucci

Жыл бұрын

40 is the correct answer vs human sized questions

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Some good duct tape, I think I could get a couple more tests out of this glass.

@Tacteyecool

Жыл бұрын

​@@GunSamplz do 😊

Very interesting tests! I think all that ammo performed satisfying. Maybe few shots of same brands through wind shield could give better perspective. I also wonder about critical ricochet angles for such ammo (difficult to test) from the windshield. Good shooting👋

Good test. I like the critical defense they usually do good in a test like this.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

I have not seen any tests with Critical Defense through auto glass. Do you happened to know if it's been recorded anywhere? If so, send a link.

@jonclark8155

Жыл бұрын

@@GunSam @ Iraq veteran 8888 did a test with them. I’m at work right now.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

I just question it because the construction of that bullet is thin jacketed, non bonded and designed to expand at low velocity. All of those things should deform a bullet more than typical and make it a bad choice for auto glass, at least it seems that way on paper. That's why I ask.

@jonclark8155

Жыл бұрын

@@GunSam I must have made a mistake all I’m seeing is critical duty. I swear I saw a video on KZread with critical defense going through a windshield or drywall. I’m guessing it wouldn’t hurt to see if it will it’s up to you if you want to see what it does. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

We carry Winchester rangers for our duty ammo at my agency. And so I started carrying the defender off duty to match with what I carry on duty. I've been really happy with the Winchester ranger/defender. Thanks for showing me this test. Now I know my agency made the right decision with our lives.

@TheRealSwampOperator2

8 ай бұрын

Gotta have good ammunition when your out every day violating your oath and cramming unconstitutional laws down the publics throat.

Very cool lab video!!!

Gold Dot 124 +p was my favorite till the price got jacked up. Now I carry XTP 124 +p.

Fascinating test, Sam. Interesting how the windshield affected the Critical Duty. You touched on the subject of deflection by angled glass; that could be an interesting video. Angle the windshield as in a modern car, set a large target as far behind it as a driver would be in a car, see how far from point of aim those bullets land. I’m curious as to whether the heavy slow bullet of a .45 would outperform the 9mm or do worse. Would a .45-70 be best of all? 😉 I’m not likely to shoot a driver who is trying to kill me, but it would be interesting research. So would, otherwise identical, .357 125 gr. JSP vs JHP.

You can’t hardly find the Winchester defender around here. I can order some from one of my favorite places. I’ve seen the Ranger T and one fail the heavy clothing test. I haven’t seen many test on the defenders.Sure would have liked to see the underwood +p extreme defenders hit the glass. I’ve watched them out perform most everything in other test. Great test!

Ready to see the same test with 40 caliber

Nice change of pace with the windshield. Personally, I like that real world scenario test. Any spare car doors laying around your house ? Thanks for sharing and regards from Washifornia !

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

No doors...

GSRA got a windshield for this?!?! Impressive!

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Not that difficult to acquire.

Gr8 test n you should do the windshield test more or get as much as u can out of it n also some wall barriers just to switch things up!!

Great video Sam Winchester Defender did better on one of my test also with two other major brand names on 147gr . It just does not look like a " Flower " that so many other people want to see

That's a great presentation you did there. I'm not sure who you borrowed that windshield from, but they are not going to be happy when you bring it back. 😉

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. lil duct tape, they won't notice

Cool video thanks.

You are THE ammo reviewer. I unaware of anyone else so comprehensive in their review of 9mm, 40, .38 and .357. This is off topic, but I have been sort of binging your videos because I am considering a new model 66 to replace an old one I regret selling many many years ago. Then your videos got me to thinking about the 686. Do you have any views as they relate to 6 shot versus 7 shot?

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

The 66 and 686 comparisons are interesting. The 66 seems to balance better in the hand with the 686 seeming muzzle heavy, but when actually firing, the 686 has better balance. I personally wanted a 6 shot because mentally I am used to 6 shot as being the 'correct' capacity, six shooter etc. I would say the 7th round would be personal preference. With such a heavy and larger frame, a 686 with a 7 shot cylinder makes perfect sense. Nothing wrong with either.

Hope u try some hornady American gunner 124 gr +P XTP bullet , A nice budget round Wonder If the toughness of the xtp bullet would help its cause

I wonder if the critical duty would have done better in the 135gr. But then again you could say the same for the rest in 147. Great video.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. I think I may try that along with .45 ACP, .40 etc

Interesting results! I wonder how the 124 Federal Punch would do? Some folks think it's basically the same as the HST, but I find it penetrates deeper than the HST.

Wow that gold dot group at 25 yards shooting that fast...impressive!

Hey Sam, just saw a great test with .380 Fiocchi Defense Dynamics...you should do those short and long barrel...and I remember they did great in your 9mm test for cheap ammo...maybe you could test .40 and .45 too seems like a good, perhaps propriety bullet design. Also, you can buy 500 rd mixed .40 most JHPs FOR CHEAP would be awesome if you just tested a bunch of different ones you can figure out through your Real World MDF testing please

Awesome thanks

That's an excellent video and answers some questions many of us have. I know the local law enforcement agency where I live tests through auto windshields. They allow their officers to carry HST and Gold Dots. Secondly, the bullet weight can matter on these tests. A close friend is an instructor and LEO in a different municipality. They use 147 gr HST and have had, unfortunately, more than one officer-involved shooting where an individual attacked an officer with a knife or gun. Long story short, the 147gr HST is lethal through a windshield and through winter clothing. I hope you get a chance to repeat this test with the same bullets in 147 gr,. The Critical Duty doesn't exist in 147 gr though, only up to 135gr, as far as I know.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

I keep 147 grain Federal HST in my compact guns with a 4" barrel and in my standard gun with 4&1/2" barrels I keep the Winchester Defender 124 grain +p so I guess I picked the 2 best in this test for my loading choice!

Impressive shooting at 25 yds and especially 75yds, especially how quickly you are popping the rounds of!!! The HST, Gold Dot and Defender did very similar, the Critical Duty was surprising to see how bad it did in the windshield test given the low expansion. Before making final decisions it is best to test multiple rounds to see if the windshield test for the bullet is consistent.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Personally, I think maybe one more shot of the Defender may be warranted as the expansion was significantly lower than the other rounds through the glass, however....the rest of them mushroomed or expanded out huge against the glass, so I don't think another test is going to show 'worse' results, but I suppose it's possible the Defender could be a one off and show 'better' results and penetrate the same as the others.

I appreciate and like your production . Here in Australia we cannot use our firearms as self defence weapons , only USP , NRA , IPSC & General target shooting on a specified pistol range and only shoot at a range and definitely not for hunting . But from a scientific point of view about going through glass into a flesh like medium . It helps you understand when watching a movie if the bullet would go through the glass into the victim and end them .

My edc is a S&W m10-14 loaded with 158 lswhp from Buffalo Bore, +p of course. 158 at 1100 fps will get the job done.

That round that escaped the gel and then went forward to hit the windshield looked pretty cool. All things considered, I think all the ammunition did well for its intended purpose. As you said, a windshield is a pretty tough target to deal with. Speaking of which, did you buy a fresh piece of glass for this? That's some dedication! From what I could see, that was a serviceable piece of glass. Of course the camera doesn't always show everything. As an end note, the power level of 1250fps from a 124gr bullet is about what I get from a 2" barrel J-Frame when shooting typical 357 Magnum loads. They are at about my control limit and over my comfort threshold from my M&P340. That's not going to change my carry though. With summer temps now getting up near 90ºF and humid, carrying something like that Shield is just not going to work for me. No one seems to notice the J-Frame in a front pants pocket. Great video as always.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. I did find that bullet too, laying besides the first gel block. I realized this was somehow the bullet that left the block, but on the range I was dumbfounded. Saw it in the editing later lol. Looked identical to the HST I did catch, so I just ignored this rather than cut in and edit. The windshield...my late grandfather was friends with a local junkyard, the local junkyard loved him and they know my mother as well. I asked her to go there and see how much one would cost, he gave it to her for free. I gave my mom 50 bucks after though lol - finder's fee, I was like I probably would have paid at least that somewhere else. The glass was totally in tact too, said 82-92 Ford Ranger on the glass.

@Fudmottin

Жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Wow. That is a good deal!

I just wonder if they would have performed any differently if the shots through the glass were hits a little bit more spread apart. Good shooting and thanks for the info. Also.... I would be interested if you could compare them to the Philips head bullet to see if they really are a barrier blind bullet

Excellent..!!

Next time see what the copper bullets do. Great test.

Thanks

I have all of these and was trying to decide which one to use for home home defense setup. Looks like I really can't go wrong with any of them but I'm picking gold dot because it has the most energy.

This is the best test I have seen with a windshield. Adding that gel is a great technique. Most of the LOE in my area are using 40. How much of a difference would that make.

@GunSam

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Thanks. The .40 S&W tends to penetrate a lot more than 9mm because of it's bullet mass and flat nose. Now as far as hollow points go, I would take an educated guess and say there would probably always be 12-16" of penetration rather than this 8" stuff, just based on bullet mass (if it was 180 gr used).

@ctsnider88

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@@GunSam thanks.

@cavemanjeff4251

Жыл бұрын

Being in law enforcement, I really appreciate you going to the extra trouble acquiring a windshield and doing this test. Starting in the 80's we had .357 revolvers, then went to .40 Glocks, then back to 9mm Glocks , currently issued standard pressure 124 hst's. Quite a few shooting incidents involved vehicles so I was happy to see this comparison, thank you.

I'd still pick 124 hst because its cheap af and will do the job. I paid 139 for 250 rounds of it today. Can't beat that.

The Winchester uses a different bonding process they use a flux to weld it to the jacket look at the base of the Winchester round

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info.

Critical duty is like an expanding and “deforming” “slug” made to expand no matter what or also like “deform” if it can’t expand through car doors, and also penetrate to 18”, so they limited expansion to help penetration and also make the “deformation” through a car door similar in final diameter to actual expansion. And then that also helps the polymer insert I think it’s called ftx help it to always achieve expansion through heavy clothing since it’s doesn’t really need to expand all that much to be performing as intended Edit: wow after watching the video surprised to see that while Inwas correct on the “deformation” can’t believe the crit duty deformed to 0.675” through glass lmao. Gold dot got big too. Weird Hst is so big into the gel then the smallest through the glass. Still big enough though and better penetration I personally like HST. 115 gr critical defense is also better imo. And I like the .380 critical defense but out of a 3.25” or longer barrel. It doesn’t expand out of 2.75” barrel like the lcp etc

I would agree with the lack of recoil statement. I was shooting underwood 9mm +p+ and really didn’t feel a lot of difference with the 124 grain fiocchi ball ammo I normally use. I was surprised that even the 10mm underwood didn’t feel a ton different than the s&b 180 grain truncated ball ammo. Maybe the calibers are just too small to make that much difference?

The vagaries of lead core JHP’s for potential barriers, the various solid copper bullets can be expected to excel for penetration and wounding effect.

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

I haven't tested them yet with a barrier, my my initial thought in referencing some bullets is that they might not do well. I don't know which bullets you are referring to specifically - now copper HP's might do well, but fluted copper solids like the Xtreme Defender style might not do well at all. Reason is they have to be going fast and enter the target both fast and nose straight. Hitting a windshield can take 60% of the velocity off the top immediately, now you got some 68 gr bullet doing 700 FPS with a bent nose as it enters the attacker....not sure that would do any better than FMJ.

Damn +p ain't no joke it looked like you were shooting a 10mm with the amount of muzzle rise. Glad I got +p HST in my edc.

Great Testing Gun Sam! Its the wrong weight Hornady round that you have. The 135gr+P is their big winner evidently. I am Not a Hornady Fanboy let me say 1st off. However, Hornady won the Federal Ammo contract after years of work to make their "Critical Duty" LEO 9mm 135Gr +P ammo the best at barrier defeating. I believe they beat out Federal Premiums HST for the win (I am not sure on that tho.) Like you said, its much different than their "Critical Defense" ammo, which is NOT a barrier defeating round. "Critical Duty" is mechanically bonded and as Gun Sam said its a harder alloy lead, a special hollowpoint design, etc. The FBI Test protocol specs 2 different angles that they have to shoot the auto glass at, at the same time. (a compound angle) What amazes me is that Hornady's 135Gr +P 9mm would penetrate the auto glass, or 2 sheets of 20 gauge steel spaced apart 3" or 5/8" plywood or 2 sheets of drywall spaced 3.5" apart and then into ballistic gel 18" behind the barrier, and it always achieved 12-18" penetration. It nearly defies physics in my mind. (2 sheets of drywall vs auto safety glass is about as large a difference as I can imagine for example) I am amazed at the Winchester Defenders Barrier penetration. Good for them! I haven't seen any very good HP Expansion tests on that round, but if it penetrates like that, well it may be why. Evidently Hornady's 135Gr +P "Critical Duty" is their best round for barriers in 9mm. As I said, I am not a Hornady fanboy, however I like HST's myself of these brands. I hate their prices, bad availability, and now no nickel plating with either Hornady or Federal. Although the news readers claim their is no supply chain crisis of rare earth materials from China. Facts contradict them as usual. So I shoot a lot of Rem UMC HP (because of cost) but I have both Federal Premium HST and Hornady and others in 9mm I am experimenting with all of them right now and my pistols so who knows, things change over time. Love your testing and commenting Gun Sam Thanks for all your hard work!

I'm not mad at any of those choices.

I’m wondering how the 68 grain plus p underwood extreme defenders would fair

@RJ-rf8fu

Жыл бұрын

Versus the 90gr ones would be good too, see if there's more or less deflection, etc.