This week only- MASSIVE sale over at Jenson USA on Marzocchi (and Fox!) product!!! If you need a new fork, make your choice on air vs coil, and NOW is the time: jenson.sjv.io/MarzocchiForksJKW. Oh, and anything purchased from that link will help support my videos- thank you!)

in conclusion, Jeff needs a stiffer coil spring

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

It sags about right, and I'm 10 lbs under the max weigh rec for it. Big part of why I prefer air is that it's so much more adjustable!

@alexisonbike3652

10 ай бұрын

Having owned a Z1 coil, it's just like that. If you go higher spring the fork feels bad. The coil fork just really rewards chunky trails wheel on the ground smashing into things kind of riding. To achieve that it needs to have low resistance and no progressivity so it can move easily

@TivonSanders

10 ай бұрын

​@@alexisonbike3652 So for XC racing, that sounds great but the thing is, coil forks are heavier than air sprung ones, right? Coil definitely would have you logging in slower lap times I assume.

@alexisonbike3652

10 ай бұрын

@@TivonSanders Indeed you need gravity and speed for the fork the feel good. Best application are gnarly enduro tracks or bike park I found. It feels particularly amazing on break bumps you can barely feel them

@TivonSanders

10 ай бұрын

@@alexisonbike3652 Makes sense. Good info, thanks!

Marzocchi’s spring chart is conservative. I weight less than you and rode a 170 coil with the medium spring and it was incredible. I used no preload. The fact you needed to max out preload shows you need the firm spring. Sag would be close to the same with no preload on the firm spring and that poppy support would return. That said, both forks are excellent and you can’t really go wrong with either.

Great comparison! I think you should try swapping to a firmer spring on the coil. I have a z1 coil with a extra-firm spring and weigh about 180lbs. The firmer spring provides really good support without having to add as much damping but also keeps a sensitive begginig stroke because of the coil spring. I like to ride a little bit of everything from trails to jumps and find this setup to work really well on everything.

I love my Z1 170mm coil. Replaced a Fox38. The coil moving more is cause coil has less stiction/hysteresis. You also need to run the next firmer coil spring to make the comparison more fair. But you are right on riding style. I'm a wheels on the ground type, love plushness with lots of traction and much prefer coil over air. I prefer tech rock gardens and such. I'm about 140lbs. riding weight, soft coil, no preload, compression fully open. Closest I gotten to bottom out is 15mm. I can feel it more active but not the pogoishness that you feel.

@farmachook

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for including your weight. I'm about the same, 135-140 lb kitted and was wondering which spring to use. Obviously the "soft" is what Marzocchi recommends, but I've seen other reviews saying the medium was too soft.

@DaBinChe

7 ай бұрын

@@farmachook Depends on riding style too. If you jump and drops a lot then firmer. I don't do much jumps drops, mostly rocky tech trails.

Ive got a grip2 swapped Z1 Coil and it feels absolutely insane. I never run tokens on my air forks anyway so i was excited to test it out and never went back after that.

beautiful 4k shots, was awesome to watch and im only halfway lmao! going to send this to my friends just so they can understand more of both coil and air's place within mtb

I absolutely love the Z1 coil! I swapped out my Fox factory 38 for them, they feel so much better. I'm 178lbs running a medium coil, bike is a '22 Patrol. I've done 21 Whistler park days this season and the forks haven't skipped a beat!

Don’t forget, the red lowers make you 5% faster 😂 Great video and perfect timing! I just bought the air model through Jenson today, incredible deal 👍

That was an excellent review. Very well articulated the role and benefit of both. Nicely done and thank you.

I just got my new Ripmo AF with the coil fork set up and out on the trail today. I love that bike! I don’t have much experience with FS bikes, but even with the coil the bike felt much more playful than my Giant Talon. It would be interesting to compare the bike with an air fork, but from today I felt very confident with the coil, as an average rider looking for confidence I think the coil suits me well. And like you said we’ll get used to either one!

Vorsprung Smashpot with hydraulic bottom out is Butter in my Fox 38!

@SnowShackboy

9 ай бұрын

I was gonna mention the Smashpot as well. I have one in my ZEB, went just 5LBS over their recommended coil and it rocks. plenty poppy and supportive but eats up all the bumps at speed

I have the low end Pike on my Norco Optic and switched it over to the Push ACS-3 coil with air bottom out protection and it’s been the best thing since sliced bread. I was between coil weights and went with the heavier spring and glad I did. Probably because of how bad my Pike was but my hands were getting slaughtered on low frequency stuff but it just eats it up now for 3/4lb weight loss.

Great comparison. Really insightful and useful. More like this please!

Awesome comparison. Thanks a lot. I didnt even know thwy made an air version. Makes me ponder my decision in the future.

Good review. Lines up with my thoughts on air fork vs coil fork. I added a Vorsprung Smashpot coil to my Fox Rhythm 36. I definitely feel like I lost a little “pop”. But i don’t feel like I compromised on midstroke support. Maybe Marzochi’s problem is they only offer spring in 3 different settings. Vorsprung springs come in 5 lbs increments

Another great video! Thanks, Jeff!

Omg Z1 Coil baby. I’ve had such a good time with that fork this season. I am more a wheels on the ground guy. I also point my 153 thru the roughest wettest stuff I can find. May add Smashpot or Grip 2 or both leading into next season. Haven’t been completely dissatisfied with the Grip damper, though. I have to agree it is a very active fork. And for my weight (97kg geared) it has decent sag with the heavier spring. Probably helps that my 153 is overforked to 170, as well.

Awesome review!!! Thanks Jeff.

Great video Jeff & for sure, Devilcross wet would DEFITINELY be more rowdy 😆 hence why I avoid it dripping wet.

Great video and really interesting to hear the comparisons, nice work! I have a Fox 38 with the standard GRIP damper and don't feel the need to extend to the GRIP2 damper. I'm bang on 74kg so don't push the damper to either the extreme end of weight/settings that some may prefer the extra 'tuneability' that the GRIP2 offers at those extremes. I think rebound, low speed and volume reducers play a more significant role personally. Caveat I am a self proclaimed average rider so I'm probably not either by skills, weight range or riding style the target market for a GRIP2 damper. Be interested to hear what you think about benefits/compromises of more adjustability vs less adjustability for the average rider. Great channel and awesome riding! 🤘 I wish I had a 10th of your trail skill! 😆

Hi. Thanks for the vid, though I would suggest to put a stiffer spring , allowing less damping and keeping the fork higher in its travel. Then you get an even poppier feel than air with still more traction and the only cost of 1/2 pound . Take a selva from formula and changing spring is even reversible and has the weight of the Z1 air

It will be more interesting with the right size spring. I put my first coil shock on, I've noticed I don't have near the pop, but can fly over chatter better.

Love my marzocchi z1 coil, eats up chunk and drops but it definitely isn't the best for jump lines and climbing, like mentioned in the video the first portion of the stroke is significantly softer which doesn't lend to the most confidence on jumps and loses a little bit of efficiency when pedaling. Ive gotten used to it now so the down sides have dulled as I've adapted.

I am a Moto guy as well as mtb. An interesting thing to try would be to add oil to the coil side reducing the air gap. This will speed up rebound and give a bit more support. That’s what it does in the Moto world. If you get bored, give that a try.

2 uploads in two days, tis a good week.

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Pearl! Been hustlin'!

Awesome video 💯

I love my 160mm Z1 coil on my NP Scout. Xfirm coil for a 205# to 210# riding weight. I agree, if your more of a wheels planted on the ground, trying to get as much traction as possible sort of rider... you'll probably prefer the coil. I say this cause that's the sort of rider I am. I feel more in control with the coil. I can pull weight of the rear tire and lean on the fork way more before you start getting beat on. If you lean that hard on an air fork it beats you up a bit. But that's just my experience.... OH and if your one whose hands go numb on chattery trails, coil WILL help quite a bit with that.

Very pleased with mine . glad i went with air. for my 177 lb 80 kg i went 65 psi with 3 volume reducers . Never bottomed out .actually i just did a video about it also :)

I just switched from a coil fork to air fork on my kona hardtail and it's much more confidence because the coil fork was constantly trying to buck me off the bike. The coil was always too soft or too stiff and ALWAYS too wild. With the air fork I feel connected to the bike and ground so much more. Traction and feel is huge.

@Emtbwebb

4 ай бұрын

My rockshox coil suspension is totally junk, dangerous they have a mind of its own its like it wants to throw me off the bike most days! So terrible when i hit the jumps too! Today i think we are all too fussy with bikes, go back 30 years and we all rode bikes with no suspension and enjoyed every minute of riding! The MTB world today is all about 💷💵💶

need a firmer spring for sure. Also to me, until you go > 170, its really hard to tell binding on a fork that a Zeb or 38 yield over a 36/z1 or 35 from a Lyrik, Diamond, Ohlins etc.. however the stiffness is not always benefitial dependent on the bike you're on. IMO a hybrid is best, and DVO does an ok attempt, but if you could get that plush linear truely off the top traction you get from coil but also the progressive platform of air to push against and to prevent harsh bottomouts, you'd be winning.

I subscribed for your sense of humor.

I have the Rockshox 35 coil and this Z1 coil would be a really nice upgrade for me.

Jeff have you ever tried an MRP ramp control? You seem like the right type of rider for one. Ramp it up for jumps, back it off accordingly for each trail type.

Z2 was my first real fork loved but since built a Pike 150 and have not looked back

Tests forks... proceeds to manual through everything. 😂 Great video and very helpful. Wish I could ride with half as much style as you do.

Another awesome video. I do have the Zoke coil on my Ibis Ripmo AF and I won't go back. But then again, I'm an old fellow who doesn't jump and I enjoy the sweet squish.

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

Well there ya go, the coil is ideal for you Joe! I thought the coil fork on the Ripmo AF helped a ton with the softer nature of the front triangle stiffness. The air forks made it feel flexier, the coil seemed to help a bit with that. Most folks might not notice, but I thought it was cool that it was a pretty apt choice from Ibis.

@justinlascala2288

10 ай бұрын

I swapped mine out for a Lyrik select plus and it suited my riding style much better. Lyrik also weighs considerably less. The Z1 coil is heavy AF for the Ripmo AF

@joebullington4997

10 ай бұрын

Thanks, Bud. Yeah...for my more relaxed riding, the coil works. But for your riding, I definitely see the advantage of the air fork. When I was younger and raced in the state series, I only ran air forks. I just felt they responded better to more aggressive riding. Take care and Happy Riding!!@@JeffKendallWeed

@joebullington4997

10 ай бұрын

I'm a big fan of the Lyrik...I will definitely consider that for a future upgrade. Thanks for your input.@@justinlascala2288

Nice work🔥

Jeff, you are such a unique rider that I completely agree with all your criticism, but for a regular trail rider, who deals with chunky rooty, gnar, I want something to smooth that out. Do I jump? yes, but there is no way I will ever ride with your vigor. That being said, I would still go air fork with a coil shock to get the best of both worlds. Great video Jeff.

Vorsprung smashpot is all you’re missing out on

I have both Z1 air & coil 170mm forks, with many more hours on the coil. The coil has been excellent! I’m luckily in the firm spring’s happy spot. The only harsh bottom out I experienced was on Original Sin running 160mm and too little compression damping. There’s a bit of a weight penalty with coil, but you do get free 160-180mm travel adjustment, via spacers. And it’s coil, so very consistent and requires far less servicing. Edit: Also worth mentioning is the OE axle is HEAVY. I lost 70g by switching to a Kabolt thru axle. That’s a massive unsprung mass loss for $40. I’ll be giving the Mezzer a whirl soon, as I’ve heard great things from Shockcraft Suspension (Dougal on mtbr forums). Very adjustable air spring(s), wide damping range, and easy travel adjust via spacers. Oh, and 37mm stanchions. What’s not to love?

@hannes6114

10 ай бұрын

Massive?

@158158cow

10 ай бұрын

@@hannes6114 Considering it’s unsprung mass, that’s something you want to take advantage of. It’s 70g/0.15lb less mass (which is effectively dead weight) that needn’t articulate with bumps. For people who spend hundreds on top of the line forks and/or tunes, it’s a small price to pay for more responsive suspension action

@Bluelights17

5 ай бұрын

Did you ever try out a mezzer? How did it compare to the Z1 coil? Dougal gives a lot of good info, however, I’ve always felt he’s far too interested in graphs and charts than actual on trail feel. I owned 2 mezzer pros. They were probably my second favorite feeling fork of all time. But I had nothing but issues out of them.

@158158cow

5 ай бұрын

@@Bluelights17 I found a lightly used 2020 Pro. Aside from the bumpers at the bottom of the lowers dislodging when doing travel adjustment, no issues to report! First ride impression was very good. Need to put more hours on it. Also got some new 2021+ lowers with bleed ports and updated bumpers for a good deal. So far, so good

@Bluelights17

5 ай бұрын

@@158158cow how does it compare to the z1 coil?

You should do a brake review… you are so in tune with your bikes that I think you’d do well at it. Few examples: TRP dhr evo, Hayes Dominion A4, Magura, etc.

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Anthony- I'd love to! Not sure if I have the bandwidth at this point, but its a dream topic!

@insanebmxthomas

10 ай бұрын

@@JeffKendallWeed just to chime in, id for sure enjoy seeing you review anything really. im also a playful rider so i value your opinion more than most other's.

I bought both air and coil versions of the rst stich. Idk why I did that but I prefer the air one at 180 lbs I could dial it in perfectly, notice the stanchions seals on this fork (both versions) didn't work well until a couple hours ...

I have Both 😎 First Run On the Coil In The AM Whistler 😎

I feel like you'd want to also test coil on both ends compared to air on both ends. The issues that you are having with the coil seem to be based around the fact that the coil fork is cycling through travel too frequently and I'm wondering if this would be an issue if the rear gave the same feedback to preserve geometry. If geo is disrupted by suspension movement, I'd generally prefer to be bottoming out the rear shock because bottoming out the fork while the shock is locked out puts me at risk of losing control during hard compressions on DH tracks. What do you think?

Thanks for the helpful video. As a new MTB rider, I'm trying to figure out whether or not upgrading to an air fork will help me on my entry level Salsa hard tail. To that end, I wish you had covered the differences with climbing between these forks. One of the hardest parts for me is climbing when the trail is winding and/or bumpy with roots and rocks. It feels like I'm reverse fishtailing, if that makes sense. The front end goes back and forth and so much energy goes into that and not the climb itself. I end up working really hard, but getting very little progress and often have to walk the bike up the hill. Obviously, no one wants to do that. I'm in decent shape so I wonder if it's more to do with my set-up, my lack of MTB experience, my fork, or maybe even the bars are too wide or the geometry of the bike is not great for me. Anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, especially if you think the stock coil fork may be a factor.

There are so many opinions out there. I truly don't know what fork brands are good anymore.

Very deep and interesting comparison! I have a Z1 air and am interested in trying out the coil kit. On a side note: about that coil adjustability, it would be nice to have something like the older days Marzocchi, with both air and metal spring, so that you can really fine tune the thing.

Maybe you can now try running coil shock now to. Probably mike to bike more balanced.

I loved my boxxer coil. Kinda regret swapping it with rc 2.1 damper one. Or maybe its just harder to set it up.

As always amazing video! I often wonder how do reviewers get around the tuning of forks. I've been riding a fox 38 grip all all summer but its in the shop for a rebuild and thought I'd try an Öhlins RXF38. First ride I thought it was horrible and next ride I got it tuned a tad better, next ride was a bit better but wow the last two days of riding and it feels amazing. I assume you've been riding so long you can tune a fork pretty fast. For me its add compression opps nope.. reduce compression oh.. ok but now rebound feels fast ok increase that opps no feels worse, etc.

I'm curious about 2 things. 1) would speeding up the rebound a touch help to aleviate that deep-riding feeling of the coil fork? I've noticed that anytime I ride a coil rear shock, I always run a few clicks faster on the rebound and more usually more compression damping. 2) If one would be running no tokens on an air fork, how close would it get to the coil option in comparison?

I suspect you would prefer the Vorsprung Smashpot coil conversion rather than the basic coil fork. I believe you will get the best of both worlds (air spring progression and coil traction) with the Vorsprung Smashpot. Maybe you could compare all three forks? I believe that would be a first comparison on KZread.

Only one correct answer…Foxocchi! Love my Z1 coil with Fox 36 CSU and Grip2 damper.

I feel the coil Z1 would profit big time by a grip2 damper. I'm more of a technical rock garden/roots person when I pick my trail and my coil Z1 served me hella fine, but I noticed I became instantly more confident on anything freeride when I got my new bike that came with a Durolux 38

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

You have a point, but at that amount of $$$, I'd rather just go 38 factory.

@alexisonbike3652

10 ай бұрын

@@JeffKendallWeed Agree, I'm happier with the Durolux now I think. If I rode Mont St-Anne in Quebec all the time I might be better off withe coil, but that's not the case

@testrella04

10 ай бұрын

Yup sr suntour durolux 38 is such an underrated fork at 3/4 the price too!

The medium spring is really soft

Since the coil felt too soft, did you consider softening up the air fork to make it a more fair comparison of their qualities?

I imagine the coil might appeal to someone that rides with more smash and less pop than you maybe Jeff? I am somewhere in the middle, I like to pop and jump some, but not off everything and sometimes like to charge, but I think even with that the air fork is where it is at for me. I am a fan of coils shocks though, but having spent the last few hundred miles on a X2, I am a fan of the middle ground with excellent sensitivity and still some pop so I have not been tempted to plop a coil on my new bike. I hear that the 2024 model is even improved offering more of both the sensitivity and pop.

I have the Z1 coil. I am 175cm & 77KG. I had to move up to the heavy spring. Being somewhat between springs, I've been searching for an answer to ramp up the spring. My idea is to use silicone cylindrical foam to act as a volume spacer. It should neatly fit inside of the coil. First winter experiment for me will be to move back to the medium spring and add half a coil length of foam to see what it'll do... Chinese websites sell silicone foam in 18mm and 21mm diameter. I chose 18mm to have some clearance on the spring. Maybe 21mm would have been better to use. I'll see how it goes. Oh, and for the chemistry nerds, silicone should be less likely to dissolve/break down as it's not oil soluble.

@sjaan7370

10 ай бұрын

Can't you just increase or decrease oil level for volume?

@andykrull9297

10 ай бұрын

That would definitely work too, but how heavy do you want your fork to be…

@sjaan7370

10 ай бұрын

@@andykrull9297 It's amazing how much a small amount will make in the lowers of these forks.

Merry christmass sir.. i need coil fork hahaha.. from phils..

Was coil is more linear than air, is it possible that the coil fork would feel better when pair with a coil shock?

My opinion is that what your money can buy is the best fork for you/anyone

What camera do you use to record your video's while riding down trails, I'm looking to buy a camera to record myself while riding and would like to see what other people are using....Thanks chris 🙂...Oh, looks like a gopro but it's upside down at @1:31 on your chest, could I ask what model it is please.....

Which trail are you showing at 14:20? (I ride Galbraith once a week)

Did you try upping your coil strength?

Red lyrik + red rs ultimate coil shock for me! I also like the support from air fork and its very adjustable. Love the coil shock its just butter, I never felt something like that before! And it pops jumps as well and the HBO works good but sometimes I bottom out still. Will try a stiffer spring at some point.

I would totally buy a coil fork if there was one as good as my 38!

@tjb8841

10 ай бұрын

That’s it for me. Between the more basic damper, and the heavier chassis (in addition to the extra weight of the coil), I didn’t feel excited going for the Z1 coil instead of a 36 or 38.

Do you feel a difference when you're in a manual?

7:57 a z1 air fork in its natural habitat 😅

I would have liked to have seen you try the firm spring with no preload for comparison. ps... takes less time to change a spring trailside than changing forks 😉

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

Yeah going outside my recommended spring rate would be interesting, but the loss of traction and small bump compliance that would result might be sketchy as things get wet and greasy.

@sjaan7370

10 ай бұрын

@@JeffKendallWeed Totally agree if that's the case, but it would be interesting to try the firm spring in dry conditions like we've had since May! At least up until this week 🙃

i think if you want to ride coil fork you might as well get a coil shock out back to make bike more balanced

Depends on you and your riding. NO ONE can answer this but you. Must try all and decide for yourself

Yup, go up a spring rate, simple

Awesome epik video

Are those santa cruz carbon reserve wheels? Reveiw?

@hannes6114

10 ай бұрын

Yes and yes

This has some muscles don’t mess with him😮

Without stating the obvious, is there an option for a progressive spring & if not why not ?🤔 they’ve been around in motos since the 80’s and you can get them for a shock so why not for the forks ? I’m a moto mechanic by trade and really has me bamboozled as to why they aren’t common place as that’s always the same argument between air & coil that air is more tunable & progressive! Yes air is more easily tunable 💯 but if you get a coil right and a progressive one they are far better than air on small to medium hits !

If you have to turn the preload up all the way you are defeating the main benefit of the coil spring.

Air springs are for mattresses. Coil front/back all day everyday

Hmmm 140mm fox 34 grip2 or 140 bomber z1 air for my trail bike?

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

The Z1 is a 36, noticeably bigger and stiffer. I like the 34 on my Ripley AF and Exie, but anything 150 or longer and I’m all about 36 (z1).

@E.T_rode_bikes_As_well

10 ай бұрын

@@JeffKendallWeed thank u sir!

Is a coil fork better on hardtails?

@TomLol-ok4jt

2 ай бұрын

Yes

To me Air forks feel dull and unresponsive. To me it gives the feeling of increased unsprung weight as the wheel does not seem to respond as quickly as coil forks. I guess it is caused by more seals causing more friction.

My conclusion is they shoud re visit the coil with air bottom out support and open bath design

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

Hahahaha back like it's 2005 again!

@ixcel83

10 ай бұрын

​@@JeffKendallWeedI had the 2003.5 marzocchi Z-150! That fork was super smooth! The air was great for putting a little ramp up in it. It did weigh a ton though haha!

@burningatthetrailhead

10 ай бұрын

@@ixcel83 I've got some 06z1 sport RV and 07 DJ3 forks that still run mint. They get serviced once a year

@ixcel83

10 ай бұрын

@@burningatthetrailhead I have a 2004 marathon SL 105mm in white that I would like to get going again. It is air and it started to leak air out over the course of a ride. Local shops do not service it. I should probably just hang it on the wall.

@burningatthetrailhead

10 ай бұрын

@@ixcel83 do it yourself. You can get seals, bushings and oil online for fairly cheap

sweet. coil over air.

It is definitely not objective, you have to change the spring in shox which is recomended for your body weight… than it will be objective! It is like run out with less PSI in Air shox.

Nice 🎉

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Hank!

To make it a true test wouldn't using the correct coil spring for your weight and riding style make it more of a comparison. You wouldn't start the test out with a lower than your typical pressure and volume spacers.

If you had a spring that's too soft this video is null and void.

Love your vids but dude you're not comparing apples with apples, here! Get the proper spring rate for your weight - that fork has hyrdaulic bottom out resistance as well!

I’m a little disappointed that you didn’t hit up with a “silly rabbit, Trix are for kids” reference in the beginning. 😊 Good video though. Keep them com8ng.

@16:11 is when you might want to think about bringing out the tree trimmers. wtf man.

Red on the pistachio is a little gross but I know it rides like a cloud

@JeffKendallWeed

10 ай бұрын

Hahaha it looked great IRL! I called it the "not pregnant" bike!

Definitely one downfall of the coil, make sure you have the right weight coil.

@JeffKendallWeed

9 ай бұрын

Or enough extra $$$ to buy multiple sprints and hope one is close enough to correct 🙄

@twiggywolfedc

9 ай бұрын

@@JeffKendallWeed we ran the stiffest spring in the one i got from a buddy. Definitely prefer the air still. Both great forks for the money

None of the above.... best forks? Vorsprung smashpot or secus.

This is the worst comparison I’ve seen. Get a proper setup in that coil shock. Preload is there for small adjustments, if it’s maxed out, you needed a heavier spring.

Now, blindfolded . . . 🤨

Luckily in MTB we have 2 ways of doing everything else the content creators would have ran out of content long time ago

Trail bike = air, DH bike = coil. There, saved you some time.

There really isn't any point riding a fork with the wrong spring rate. You can't overcome that issue. It renders the comparison useless.

After 30 years of riding I prefer air