I love how a 30+ minute video is a brief primer on this channel. No, I'm not being sarcastic, I actually love that.

@NWinnVR

4 жыл бұрын

Right!? Some of us have a longer attention-span than a goldfish...

@Lead_Foot

4 жыл бұрын

ZFS is not very beginner friendly.

@BjarkeBruun

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lead_Foot you are not suppoed to change it out with XFS or ext4 afterwards, it is a learning process that you'll stick with for the rest of your life, so you have time to learn :-)

@axnyslie

2 жыл бұрын

There's another channel that has an introduction to ZFS video that's 90 minutes long. Just the introduction.

@thingsiplay

2 жыл бұрын

Others do a 12 minutes video and title it "everything you want to know about zfs".

I'm an engineer with almost 30 years experience in the storage industry at a low level (the bottom 3 or four turtles in the stack you alluded to) with other Sun Microsystems engineers who worked on most things you're talking about, including the full fat ZFS. I properly enjoyed your video and really like the fact that you mentioned that computers barely work. Storage reliability is one of the most complex computing problems out there in a world obsessed with the higher parts of the IT stack assuming everything Just Works (tm). Latency, throughput and reliability quite often can be mutually exclusive practices. When you test for any issues and see some race conditions in the lab every 6 months... you can bet your customer base (depending on its size) will see that kind of issue in 6 days. Storage is Hard, like... properly hard. :) Thanks for your video. It brought me back to why I do this.

@shahabsamkan4027

9 ай бұрын

wow a whole paragraph explaining what your qualifications are ... cool

@gc1087

6 ай бұрын

​@shahabsamkan4027 who cares, it's just background on his experience before giving a opinion. 🤦🏽‍♂️

@JimBob1937

4 ай бұрын

@@shahabsamkan4027 , qualifications are important. It's usually indicative (but not always) of the depth in which they're viewing the problem. Less experienced people tend to gloss over important details, or even be unaware of them. So, qualification listing is a way to convey that depth without going into an entire thesis regarding those details.

@goofballbiscuits3647

4 ай бұрын

​@@shahabsamkan4027 wow, you're insecure about others' success 🎉

Oracle acquiring Sun is classic example of some evil corp buying a really good company and destroy it.

@hassanzahin7852

4 жыл бұрын

Actually Sun Microsystems intentionally chose a license that isn't GPL compatible so that Linux can't add zfs drivers in it's kernel.

@ThePhoneix999

4 жыл бұрын

@@hassanzahin7852 isnt the legal opinion on this divided? Strictly talking about openzfs.

@Kusriyason

4 жыл бұрын

@@hassanzahin7852 That was not why CDDL was made and this has been hashed many times by the people that created ZFS and got Sun to try to open source their stuff. The suits didn't like the fact that the GPL didn't preserve certain rights to the business, and the Apache License while good wasn't quite enough to make the suits feel better so they made the CDDL which was the GPL and MIT licenses mashed together with all the bits that made the suits feel nervous stripped. They also say hind sight being 2020 they regret not fighting harder sooner to get it licensed into an existing opensource license. The FUD that they made the CDDL as some sort of genius mastermind plot because they hated the GPL is just that, FUD

@Kusriyason

4 жыл бұрын

@Richard Clutterbuck Yeah that's right on that. Ubuntu is basically saying by precedent currently a user can choose to do whatever they want, so "ZFS is no different than loading the NVidia drivers, fite me" in effect. Nobody really wants to take up that fight because if they win they basically kick Linux hardware support in the shin, if they lose they weaken the GPL.

@axelfoley133

4 жыл бұрын

Oracle watched 300 and thought that classic line was brilliant. Oracle: "Our errors... will blot out the Sun!"

Time to take notes!

It's pronounced ZFS not ZFS.

@sinizzl

4 жыл бұрын

>Americans can't even pronounce ZFS as ZFS

@plapbandit

4 жыл бұрын

What on earth are you talking about, CLEARLY its ZFS. I mean come on, ZFS just sounds... silly

@techzone2009

4 жыл бұрын

It's aladeen not aladeen 🙏

@tin2001

4 жыл бұрын

I read every one of those as "zed eff ess".

@clansome

4 жыл бұрын

@@tin2001 Me too

Wendell:"Brief primer" Me: "Really? Brief?" Wendell: "30 minutes" Me: "Oh, ok! That's very brief for ZFS!"

@martinquintana2458

2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. 30 min video 😅

I love ZFS, it is the best FS I've used, at work and at home. I really like the snapshot functionality

Excellent, this comes up literally the same day I buy three 6TB drives for my first ZFS setup. :D

@erisdiscordia5547

4 жыл бұрын

Hope you didn't buy any of the SMR drives :D

@blackmennewstyle

4 жыл бұрын

@@erisdiscordia5547 Yep it's basically what happened to me, they were all these fake WD Red 6Go NAS HDDs, i bought them before the issue was exposed...

@longnamedude3947

4 жыл бұрын

I would check that they aren't on this list, if they are, return them now and get a product not on this list. The list: www.ixsystems.com/community/resources/list-of-known-smr-drives.141/

@praecorloth

4 жыл бұрын

Hopefully I'm not too late. Save yourself a lot of time and headache. Get another 6TB drive, and set up a pool of mirrors. RAID5/RAIDZ is dead.

@mdd1963

4 жыл бұрын

better hope none of them are SMR drives!

I use ZFS everyday, we use it on most of our storage devices, and I'm still learning new stuff about it on a regular basis. Sun really did some great work.

2:50 oh the days we've had SUN-BLADE workstations with Solaris OS , SPARC processors and the rest .... such nice systems to work on ... some still survive till today (almost 20 years later)... only a few of us original IT guys know how to use and administer them so their days are numbered (in preeeeeeetty small number).

@trumanhw

3 жыл бұрын

I was selling Sun Ultras (off lease) from Ford ... to the tune of 300 x Month

I’m so glad people like you are working so hard to educate us; I owe you. If you are ever in London, my house is your house.

Thank you for this. Having someone like you explain it is so much more digestible than reading a ton of technical documents.. Would love to see a video like this for *XFS* ! But if you don't want to that's totally understandable.

I'd love a video on ZFS tuning. So far, all articles etc. on this topic have been a complete mystery to me, the documentation is just not very helpful to me in this regard. It only talks about hundreds of tunables without any comprehensive explanation (that a person without a deep understanding of the source code could understand) what they mean.

@xxcr4ckzzxx840

4 жыл бұрын

+1

@bobhope1160

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah same

@jokinboken

4 жыл бұрын

The books Wendell recommended at the end are very good. Try them.

@andarvidavohits4962

4 жыл бұрын

Create a pool and a dataset. Run 'zpool get all | less', run 'zfs get all | less'. Read through all the flags and properties, Google them and learn about them in the manuals 'man zfs', 'man zpool'. Read openzfs.org/wiki/Performance_tuning and start tweaking the settings with 'zpool set' and 'zfs set'. Once you're comfortable tweaking through the ZFS commands, you can start tweaking your OS' kernel parameters and the ZFS services, if need be.

@autohmae

4 жыл бұрын

go to ZFS subreddit, it's pretty good

As a viewer from the overseas. I appreciate your Aloominum vs. Al-u-min-i-um - I mean Zed vs. Zee distinction.

@pappyman179

4 жыл бұрын

As an American, I do to. Not sure why, but I do.

@jamesrockford5145

4 жыл бұрын

American men dont wear bonnets. I would never drive a car with a wind screen, I prefer a wind shield

@tenminutetokyo2643

3 жыл бұрын

Nick Norton Everyone in US says Aluminum. Even our Aloominum foil in grocery stores has it printed on the box.

Wow - thanks for the shot at 13:00 of your old offices. It made me realize how long I've actually been watching your videos! Boy, how time flies...thanks, Wendell!

Thanks for these videos, Wendell!! We really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us! Please keep making more Linux videos!

I enjoy these types of videos way more than tech news on the other channel, I would really like if the focus would shift towards teaching material such as this!

Thanks for this great fireside chat Wendel, you are the best

Love your videos, Wendell! Thanks!

Thank you, chill background music.I enjoyed this.

Great high-level overview video Wendell! I wonder if you do a next installment could you fit unRAID (XFS/BTRFS) in there with a similar approach? Like basic overview, differences, applications?

This was so incredibly helpful and educational. Thank you so much!

Good stuff Wendell. For months I poured over reviews of raid cards to run a raid 5 array. Then I was introduced to FreeNAS and ZFS, and when I found out all was needed was a decent hba, I was sold. ZFS is crucial for data protection.

@mrlithium69

4 жыл бұрын

This is the best reason. Redundancy brought to the masses with inexpensive HBA cards, and all you really need is a bunch of RAM to run it, which we have. ECC is not even required, its just important to have. Also, its open source and we can tell what its doing. Using something like FreeNAS will teach you ZFS and BSD at the same time, if you decide to use the command line, and take control of your own data destiny.

@touristguy87

Жыл бұрын

...yep, can't have data-protection without zfs!

@Alphahydro

Жыл бұрын

@@touristguy87 I can't see it any other way

This is probably the best ZFS explanation I've ever encountered in my life.

Very well explained, insightful video. Thank you for this.

Thanks Wendell, I love these, now when is the next one? ;-)

This is so informative and well-explained! Respect man!

Great stuff as always!

Love your work my friend! thank you so much for your splendid explanation

Awesome video and explanation of ZFS. Now I have the bug to want to learn more. Thanks so much. 👍

Thank you Wendell, this is one of the best introduction to ZFS, it's clear and concise, it's easy to understand from a beginner's perspective. Would love to see more of this type of video!

Thank you so much. Eye opener!

Thank you for this video, you did a good job dimystifying zfs

Excellent overview! Thanks :)

Good stuff Wendell !

You have a good voice for explaining. Kudos.

Would love to hear a comparison between ZFS, WAFL, and Nimble CASL

Thanks Wendell, great as always! If possible I'd like to see a LVM deep dive as I'm not yet understanding it totally. I always thought LVM would be unnecessary but with what you now said, it makes much more sense now. Also have you or anyone else tried out a recent version of bcachefs?

Thanks man, this was both informative and your voice is like unix ASMR :3

I live in a country with 2 to 14 power-fails/week and I had a lot of garbled music files, so I'm very happy with ZFS and its Copy On Write. I even have my dataset with music stored with copies=2, basically introducing a mirror for that dataset in an otherwise striped datapool.

@bertnijhof5413

6 ай бұрын

@amitranaware9356 That is why I have a 1200W Avtek Surge Protector. But in general power supplies and motherboards die more often, because of power fails.

Im amazed on how simple you manage to explain this complex topic. Thanks for all the effort you put in to your videos! Btw: I think its pronounced ZFS ..

Fountain of knowledge as always. Great explanation Mr Wendell. Not that I understood much of it :-)

Awesome video!

you said asymptomatic in such a way I just knew this was uploaded this year

2 years later--ZFS is still rock solid and I have to say the only time I have lost data, is when I tried to use the command line to move data instead of TrueNas native data transfer. Probably error on my part. I understand more now about ZFS, and love freeBSD which natively supports it and so I have not done anything with BTRFS. Great Informative video !

Great video. Thank you

Thanks! Been doing flashes of OpenBSD & Ubuntu, both of which offer 'experimenting' with ZFS. Gonna try them out today

Ha! I did the raid 5 recovery last week, that was fun.

Great insights. Have you done vid on how long solid state storage lasts versus hard drive (spinning rust)?

Thanks. I like this format and appreciate your videos. I'd watch a 30min on XFS as well if you end up doing some other file systems! I've been running UNRAID servers for many years and would like to peek under the hood a bit more.

Brilliant vid thank you! I have a much better understanding of ZFS now! awsome :)

I started using ZFS a few days ago, and I was really blown away at how incredibly simple it was. I wanted to configure four identical disks in RAID 10, and this was the only command I had to use: $ sudo zpool create NAME mirror VDEV1 VDEV2 mirror VDEV3 VDEV4 And that was it. No need for formatting or lenghty initialization processes. It just worked right away, and performance is excellent. I'm sure ZFS can get really complicated for more intricate setups with caching and tiering and tuning, but for my simple use case it was refreshing to see how easy it was.

Thanks. That was brilliant!

Great video ofc, but would love to have a similar video about btrfs

Thank you for the excellent video. I am considering switching from Windows 11 to TrueNAS for my home file backup server.

love ZFS in FreeNas/FreeBSD. when BTRFS gets more reliable I will learn and use it. Thanks for the video W. :)

Here I am almost a year later watching this video. Why? I bought a QNap NAS to play with, and I'll eventually buy another one to back up to. Thank you once again Wendell for putting out these, and I'm now subbed to this channel in addition to the L1T channel. :)

This is perfect thank you, definitely will educate others with this video haha

Cool, that corrupted picture you used was of an FRC competition from 2015 if I remember correctly. Winnovation was one of our regional teams when I was in high school.

I put butter on everything, just not my file system. BTRfs is catchy, like you can't say "I can't belive its not ZFS" it doesn't roll off the tounge

@mdd1963

4 жыл бұрын

Once Redhat abandoned BTRFS as an option, it was doomed...

Excellent high level video. Just migrated from a Synology to my home build Ubuntu, and needed to understand what the ZFS hype was all about.

In a round about way ZFS was a pioneer in software defined storage where managing storage at a low level went from hardware to software. You now see the same principles applied in many other applications and technologies like HCI for instance.

Love ZFS as a gamer. I took my gaming laptop with two ~500GB SATA SSDs, created a mirrored bpool, and then created a striped rpool. Of course, I recommend no one run this way, but it’s fast. Also, with built in compression, potential exemption of datasets from snapshots, and dataset level case sensitivity, I can create separate sets for flatpak, Steam, and Lutris that are fully under my control with increased operability of case-insensitive programs :) No idea how to use it on a server level, but as an insane home user, I love it.

I love ZFS on my QNAP NAS (I'm using QuTS hero) and everything related with it (ZFS cache processes, inline dedup, compression etc.). 💪👍

22:30 You can always se the "copies" property to e.g. 2. By doing so you're telling the filesystem that it should store every file within the given dataset 2 times, on 2 different physical location on the disk. So if one of them is on a location with full of bad sectors, the fs will still be able to retrieve the file from the other location.

17:55 *Hard drive can be a silent carrier: ASYMPTOMATIC !!!!* LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO +1

12:29 It’s a *proprietary* computer on a card. And an inflexible one at that. Which is why I try to avoid hardware RAID.

@mrlithium69

4 жыл бұрын

This may be the only logical thing you've said. This argues for using ZFS instead of hardware RAID. Since ZFS is open source now.

Can you do a comparison between ZFS and ReFS? I'd like to know the fundamental differences and similarities between them.

Really nice and in-depth explanation, great as always! Still, Wendell, what file system would you chose for a NAS, made of 4 hdd, of 10TB each, for which data integrity and realiability are of utmost importance? I have little knowledge in regular coding, and from all my research, would like to chose the OpenMediaVault operating system, but it does not have native ZFS support. It only has a plugin for ZFS capabilities. Would you consider a plugin that incorporates ZFS, reliable? At least, compared to an operating system with native ZFS support? From what I've read, I think I'd rather go with OpenMediaVault, than with FreeNAS, which I know has built-in ZFS features. This is a weird question, 'cause my problem for safely storing/archiving data, has reached a point where all I know for sure, is that I want ZFS to be my filesystem, and would like to start from there, rather than choosing a specific operating system, and then choosing the filesystem :))

OMG, PBS couldn't have done a better job at explaining this. I was with DEC back when ... This was the type of information that was available daily. It's great to see it again. Hit SUBSCRIBE, "YES"

Makes me proud to have had an X4150 back in middle school :P

Any hope for more enterprise KZread videos?

"Brief" 31:49 Wendell!

I have a 12 bay ZFS file server appliance, and i have experienced bit rot, but thanks to ZFS Z3 i have never actually suffered a problem do to it, and it fixed the problem, if i get more than one on a drive, I'll do a scrub to make sure no other drives have corruptions, then swap the drive with a replacement

Taciturn is the perfect word to describe the speaker in this video! We are all wondering, when will he come out of his shell and speak more at length?

OMG FINALLY, BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ALL MY LIFE, NOW PLS COMPARE IT WITH WHAT "OPEN MEDIA VAULT" USES, I NEED TO KNOW WHICH IS BETTER !!!!

@williamp6800

3 жыл бұрын

Open Media Vault uses EXT4 or NTFS. ZFS will protect your data better than either of those.

More zfs videos. Can you make a gluster plus zfs video? Or another scalable zfs solution

I got the basic idea, but I think I'm gonna need to try it practically to get it. Too bad I don't have a lot of drives to create a pool out of

While other people go for 19:9 video aspect for phone users, you are going the other direction (1.66:1). Just shows how special this channel is :)

I used to go to a swap meet in CA with my dad on weekends where he would buy things like 8" floppy drives and huge 68000 cpu-based servers that were basically rescued from a landfill. Two or three weekends later he would triumphantly show me a working command line on an amber monochrome monitor. I miss my dad.

Great video, 30 mins flew by

Great video. I just got my self a new dell Precision 5750 with two NVMe drives and want to do a system wide raid1 setup on gentoo. Was wondering would people recommend zfs for this type of setup? Am just getting my head into zfs at this point and love any tips. Thanks

Might be more a level1linux flavor video, but can you do another deep dive like this explaining CEPH?

Can we get the 10 hour complete ZFS explanation? I just started using FreeNAS and I'm still getting used to the nuances of how it all works.

What I am interested about is actually the development of bcachefs. It's built on top of bcache but (oversimplified) want to be a ZFS with the performance of an ext4. It's pretty young (with few developer(s)) and isn't mainlined, but can be mainlined into the Linux kernel, is actually stable (compared to btrfs) and a pretty "clean" (for a FS) codebase. Definitely something we should keep an eye on.

I recently built a storage box and I couldn't decide if I wanted to go with NTFS or ZFS (Windows vs FreeNAS (at the time)). I really liked FreeNAS's interface, and after I got over the learning curve coming from an all-Windows background, I was all set to use it except 1) I didn't like the idea that I couldn't add a single drive to the pool. As an individual on a budget, being able to add a single drive here and there is of great benefit to me, and 2) at the time I was still under the impression that using RAID was better than using the disks individually and FreeNAS wanted me to break up the RAID into individual disks. In the end I decided to go with NTFS but now I'm starting to second-guess myself. Can anyone tell me what the minimum number of disks I can add to a vdev pool in ZFS and can each pool be aggregated into one larger pool of storage?

Thanks!

Would be nice to watch a similar video but for LVM!

Fun fact: Sun Microsystems basically reimplemented NetApp‘s WAFL

I haven’t dove into ZFS at all yet, but I am considering setting a DIY NAS for my home. It will store archived data, media, game files and that’s about it. I’m just looking for something rock solid that I don’t have to really worry about after setting up. Are the benefits from the feature set in ZFS enough to make up for the complexity that a noob like myself would have to learn? Also, is there an argument vs the raid that synology uses? Thanks for the info, you’re videos are super helpful for us newbies out here!

Zfs vs btrfs objective comparison would be interesting as a follow up

master class!

things have really changed in btrfs land with RAID1C3 and RAID1C4 additions (common use is raid1c3 for btrfs metadata, raid6 for data). I feel like this should be reviewed in the future and see if the write hole is still an issue as it was

Checksums give you 1 bit of information - whether or not there is an error somewhere. Error-correcting codes tell you where the error is. With binary data, when you know where the error is, you can invert it - therefore removing the error.

Whoops. I thought I was already subscribed. I quite enjoy your personality.

I'm interested in how the Windows port of ZFS turns out. Recently I've been tinkering with the next best thing (kind of) - exporting a ZFS ZVOL on FreeBSD as an iSCSI target and mounting it on a Windows PC. Effectively NTFS on top of ZFS. Surprisingly easy to set up, too.

@longnamedude3947

4 жыл бұрын

Why would you place NTFS on top of ZFS? I'm asking out of interest, I am not questioning your decisions, I don't have a very good understanding of ZFS or Filesystem's. I hope this makes sense :) Thanks :)

@GianfrancoGallizia

4 жыл бұрын

@@longnamedude3947 ZVOLs are a little different from ZFS datasets. A ZFS dataset is a dynamically allocated chunk of storage space with a mountpoint that the OS sees as a UNIX-like filesystem (inodes, users, groups, permissions, etc.) with some properties like "is the data compressed?" or "is the data deduplicated?". A ZVOL is like telling to ZFS "I need X amount of raw storage no strings attached" and then ZFS creates a new (virtual) device with X amount of storage space, but it's not formatted with ANY filesystem: the main use for this feature is to use these chunks of raw data as disk space for virtual machines, but nothing prevents you to set them as an iSCSI target. iSCSI is basically SCSI over Ethernet and Windows can access iSCSI targets (aka iSCSI data volumes) and see them as regular disks and so format them in NTFS.

TLDR: Basic Raid: If a file corrupts, even when there is a non corrupted file on a another drive, you can't get it (unless you send the drives to recovery) ZFS: automatically gets the non corrupted file from the mirror device Also ZFS hasn't caught upto NVME yet (@24:22), to be fair RAID is an array of *"Inexpensive"* drives

"Well, that machine caught on fire-" Me: **LP0 ON FIRE!**

Regarding scrub speed - 24 drive storage: CentOS 7, OpenZFS 0.8.4-1.el7, 1 pool, 1 drive pool global spare, 2 vdevs raidz2 (11 and 12 diskas), 90TiB of data ~= 2 days for a scrub (while other machines are writing about 50MiB/s data to it over the network)

There is error correction encoding at the driver level, so the driver can usually tell, if the data is corrupt. Of course, this may fail too, or just the electronics can fail, but it is not so simple for a drive to fail without notifying it.