What do you think the self is?

@r2c3

3 жыл бұрын

The source of both pride and shame...

@h7opolo

3 жыл бұрын

besides physical biology, the self is essentially an individual memory bank of experiences constantly applied to a cognitive schema generated by sensory awareness that ultimately motivates goal-seeking behavior.

@h7opolo

3 жыл бұрын

@ozymandias nullifidian uh no, because his self is significantly impacted by his impairment.

@Gazic

3 жыл бұрын

@ozymandias nullifidian Good answer. I wouldn't trust anyone who claims to know for sure.

@h7opolo

3 жыл бұрын

@ozymandias nullifidian . regardless, his self meets my definition. now go troll someone else.

I found that after about age 25, I've really been thirsting for Philosophy and a deeper understanding of the world. I love conversations like this.

@bisurker

3 жыл бұрын

That's probably because your brain finally finished developing. There's an arguement to be made out there that 25 should really be considered the age of maturity.

@Anne_Onymous

3 жыл бұрын

That's why I laugh when people want 16 year olds to be able to vote in government. Imagine deciding important stuff about the entire country and every life in it, when you're only half way to maturity and can barely handle deciding what to eat for dinner?

@kimberawification13

3 жыл бұрын

@@Anne_Onymous LOL they'd be a more informed group of voters than many adults today, sadly.

@austinjrb

3 жыл бұрын

@@Anne_Onymous one of my favorite philosophers had said a similar thing to you. I definitely agree. Especially with the lack of regard for past wisdom us younger people have (that seems to be getting worse too btw). It'd be one thing if we valued and appreciated our elders, and stood on their shoulders to reach higher ground. Separated the wheat from the chaff... but a lot of youth want to throw the baby out with the bath water. As complex and difficult as the world is, we're arrogant enough to believe we'll do better by starting from scratch. It's a damn shame. The utility of old age, experience, and the accumulation of knowledge over time is criminally under-appreciated.

@johngalt6838

3 жыл бұрын

Because you have been indoctrinated for ignorance by a malevolent system. You're intelligence is breaking the barriers.

I grew up in between eastern and western cultures. Granted having too much choices and overly focused of self in the “west” makes people anxious and self-indulgent. But people get anxious performing “duties” in the “east”, and people make “safe choices” hiding in social expectations secretly hate themselves too. This lady in the beginning makes it sound like everything would be better if you give up choice and just do what the culture demands you unthinkingly, while in fact, both extremes are toxic.

@alaricgoldkuhl155

3 жыл бұрын

Great insight. All extremes are toxic dude. That's why the Middle Way.

@MSPWrit3r

3 жыл бұрын

I 100% agree - balance is everything - living in an extreme of either view will produce anxiety and I would love to see how they pulled together their statistics because I would bet money that there was bias in the presentation. I lived in Japan for a little while and saw how duty culture was oppressive to some people because they couldn't express themselves as they wanted to be able to. I never really got close enough to anyone in Japan to have deep conversations about how they felt about society, but it was more my observation based on random comments Japanese people made to me where they said they wished they could be as "free" as I was. In fact, as a westerner living in Japan, I received a lot more leniency than a Japanese person would, since they thought that I wouldn't fully understand duty culture and to an extent they're correct. I never received any questions about why I was close to 30 but still single and without children, yet, my single or divorced Japanese colleagues received these questions ALL the time and non-stop and while their responses were covered up by smiles, some were badgered to the point of tears (despite smiling through it) and it broke my heart. I'm back in the US now, and in discussions with my Buddhist coworker who grew up in an east asian country, she's expressed the same. She has a mother that is very abusive to her and for the longest time she felt so much shame and guilt to fulfill her duty as a daughter and take care of her aging mother, yet, at the same time, her mother would say the most awful things to her, but she put up with it to fulfill her duty despite the damage it was doing to her mental health because she was made to feel that if she didn't, her worth as a human went down. She eventually sought out counseling and is now doing much better, and still has a relationship with her mother where she is a caretaker, but she's able to put up boundaries to protect her own mental health, which is something she had felt before was in conflict with her duty and would make her the "bad daughter" her mother told her she was. I'm not saying that the western view of self is perfect, either. The pressure to be original and to "make your mark on the world before you die" is also suffocating, because you're left feeling like if you don't do something extraordinary, then your time on earth is worthless, and that is why a balance between the two is so important. You don't NEED to leave a lasting mark on the world - you CAN BE a cog in the machine and that does not make your worth any less than someone who revolutionizes the way something is done or the way people think, because while they're getting the recognition, they DID NOT get there all on their own, but thanks to the work of countless others that may never be known. It's important to understand both extremes so that you can figure out where along that spectrum you feel most comfortable, without society making you feel that you MUST act one way or the other to have worth as a human being.

@alaricgoldkuhl155

3 жыл бұрын

@@MSPWrit3r DUDE! Exceptional post man. Eloquently put, but dare I say, probably pearls before swine in KZread comments. Not that there's anything wrong with swine per se. Lovely creatures. Just no appreciation for pearls unfortunately.

@theobolt250

3 жыл бұрын

So she did not really got into what real self is and the needs for a healthy and strong self? Furthermore I agree completely with your view on the matter. Thanks for your insights from experience.

@pouya3945

2 жыл бұрын

Self-illusion or thinking is like a transparent curtain that adds an extra layer of information to our vision, we see our thoughts but they do not exist in front of us! This is the human ability to see things that do not exist! The problem that occurs in humans is that, when the nervous system contracts, the thinking process automatically begins to think! And because most people have more or less nervous system contractions, they have this extra thought! And in the long run, these thoughts almost become an additional operating system, and it makes its own decisions! If the nervous system relaxes, this process of extra thought will automatically stop and the new human being can see the world as it is without disturbing the mind! After that, it can be understood that creation is predetermined from the beginning to the end day! As consciousness we only understand the life story, and the rest is out of our control!

This is so interesting. I always thought that our sense of identity is one of the most important things we have because it affects feelings of self-worth and confidence which goes on to affect just about everything else, I never really thought about how the self could be an illusion.

@igot5onit423

3 жыл бұрын

It really determines what lens you look at it from.. the double slit experiment is a good example.. Reality is not always what it seems

@igot5onit423

3 жыл бұрын

@ozymandias nullifidian so are you saying philosophy is more opinion-based.. Well obviously.. because everybody has different points of view.. The interesting thing with Science is when you get down to Observation at the human level it gets difficult to determine if you're affecting it and if you weren't there would it even exist🤔

@austinjrb

3 жыл бұрын

Keep in mind that while these are talented thinkers sharing a profound idea, it's not gospel. You could easily make the argument that your sense of identity is one of the most real aspects of being here, and approaching it that way tends to be more productive and pragmatic (that's certainly the case for those of us with less aptitude, of which we are the majority). Think about it. Accept the proposition that your sense of self is an illusion... so then, now what? What change in behavior follows the acceptance of this concept? It's vague and leads most of us to an intellectual desert. The implications are too broad and undirected. Compare that to the acceptance that your sense of identity affects your feelings of self-worth and confidence... the follow-up to that is natural and clear. If any of us hears something like that, then you'll obviously want to optimize your confidence and sense of worth so that you succeed at the things you want to succeed at. I'm not saying I disagree with them or knocking their brilliance. I wish I was half as smart as someone like Sam Harris... But as a man who grew up in and lives in the hood, I think a lot of this stuff, at some point, gets away from the ball of dirt we live on and becomes an exercise in intellect.

@igot5onit423

3 жыл бұрын

@@austinjrb I'm probably not going to be is articulate or is eloquent with my comment as you just were but I think the simplest way I can say it is are human brains are not advancing at the level of technology/ science.. I don't know if humans were supposed to evolve to this point where were actually able to contemplate our existence because our basic functions are still the same... So it would be less stressful to go with the theory of you have a "self" because that's what are primitive brains want to do because we're at the end of the day's still Hunter and gatherers biologically

@HeathSawyerisHeheboy

3 жыл бұрын

@@igot5onit423 It seems to me in the moment that a population like humanity will in some part create a quantum wave of possibilities, though sparse I'm convinced. Without critical thought If you are asian, euopean or of pacific ethnicity your point on the wall maybe more predetermined than we may be willing to accept. Observation alone can't be enough, surely there must be a quantum delay as our worldview influences our perception? Having 3 speakers was a good choice for this video.

When a person says "finding one's true self" It sounds like a lost cause to me because that would mean going back to when you were a blank slate/canvas before any of the social and environmental influences imprinted themselves onto you. Nearly anything that you think you are is probably traceable to an experience you had (and/or a trait borrowed from your parents). I think it's probably better to recognize, manage and make use of those influences as we move through life.

@silentmouse2136

10 ай бұрын

Wow you have an interesting perspective but I don’t think the true self discounts lived experiences. I think it’s more so about what are the abstract elements that govern your behaviour through your life and really make you, you, as a distinct individual. Example: part of what uniquely defined Kobe was not basketball per say but learning. And that deep need to learn manifested itself in different areas of his life. (Basketball) & (Learning story telling).

@budo4

10 ай бұрын

​@@silentmouse2136 You may be right but demonstrating a knack for learning might be traceable to a borrowed trait from a parent or it was taught. What if that trait was innate like you’re suggesting but suppressed? Unable to give us a clue about whom the person is. Exactly who you are is hard to figure out when you could be many different things if you were born to anyone and anywhere else on the planet.

Modern life is full of isolation and lonliness. Not enough loving relationships where we feel noticed, acknowledged and known in depth by others.

@AndreaDingbatt

2 жыл бұрын

@iArt Loneliness is at epidemic proportions, within Western Culture, sadly. This is a major cause of depression, and, depression also causes loneliness.... Learning how to listen, properly, is something that we should teach our children, because we certainly can't trust the education system to be doing this... The skill of being able to empathise, in an honest, helpful way, thus giving people a chance to vent, without jumping in with unsolicited advice... (This is my biggest challenge, lol!) Effective communication skills should also be encouraged, and nurtured. Humans need to remember that they evolved, successfully, as a Social species, it is not a 'dog eat dog' survival of the fittest model, that has the most benefit in Nature, As we are now seeing that 'Symbiosis' is The most successful, least destructive paradigm... Namaste 🙏 Andrea and Critter Family. XxX

@tylermacdonald8924

Жыл бұрын

I agree but I think this is also a confession. You may just need to find yourself

"If there's an experiential internal qualitative dimension to any physical system, then that is consciousness." - Sam Harris Never have I heard it put so simply and it just clicks. Brilliant, thanks for sharing, Sam.

@MrShahid0072

3 жыл бұрын

Dude has way with words

@itsROMPERS...

3 жыл бұрын

Seriously? It doesn't mean anything! "Experiential internal"? There is not "experiential EXTERNAL", so drop the second word. "Dimension" just means "place". "Qualitative" just means "can't be measured, ineffable; a feeling" as opposed to "quantitative", which means "measurable". And he starts it all with "if", which means it's an option, not a definition. Then he talks about "physical system" by which he probably means "organic biological", although a car is also a physical system, so did that apply here too? Naturally it boils down to, "if you feel something, that might be consciousness". It does sound nice, but I don't really find it that helpful. Sam Harris talk pretty.

@MrShahid0072

3 жыл бұрын

@@itsROMPERS... Good point but i don't think he said it like that because it's "Oh so deep". It's just said in a formal language. Language someone like Dan Dennet would understand because someone like him is clearly so absorbed by their "intellect" that they probably don't "feel" anything (exaggerating here lol) and this kind of language works for these people and usually these are the kind of people who don't seem to "get" what is being talked about when someone says "consciousness". We all know these kind of people don't we, who just don't seem to get what people mean when they are taking about consciousness. So using this framing is not a bad take imo.Also physical system is probably used because currently, we don't really know what consciousness really is or what makes "anything" conscious. There could be A.I. out there right now who might just be conscious, just as trees might be conscious, but we have no way of knowing for sure. I think all those words he used are necessary..most people start describing consciousness as "internal and experiential". Atleast most people that I have talked to. It may feel like he could do with just "experiential" but experiential or "experience" is already is synonymous with consciousness and if it was that obvious to most people, there would be no need to define consciousness all the time and everyone would know exactly what you were taking about. But sadly this is not the case. Like fish swimming in water may not know what water is, many people don't understand what is being talked about when when they hear "consciousness" because it's reality is so immediate (like water for fish) that you can miss it. That's not to say people don't feel anything or are not self aware. They surely are but they just don't immediately get what people are taking about when they are taking about consciousness and this is just an attempt to get through to those kind of people. Some people simply know exactly what is being talked about if you just say "awareness" or "experience". Consciousness is a tricky topic to talk about. P.S. You don have to be that mad is what I mean. You seem pissed lol. Everything cool?

@hortlockthelivingdead4676

3 жыл бұрын

@@itsROMPERS... how do you define consciousness then?

@fwd79

3 жыл бұрын

@@itsROMPERS... yes Jeff, seriously. I think it is a brilliant observation and as an “IT guy” I see it as a potential path to creation of A.I. with self awareness. Because when we have such a decent definition then application becomes easy. We are working with AI machine learning etc but self-awareness remains a dream. I already discussed it with my inner circle and might actually spread it around IT community. Let’s see where the idea takes us. 🙂

I always thought of the self as something other than the ego. The ego is the organising principle that makes sense in a narrative way of past and future, while the self is the present true sensory perception which I dont think you really can not experience without filtering it through the ego in at least some degree

@womb.w-o.2piR

2 жыл бұрын

I couldnt agree more, and I believe that by attaching the idea of the "soul" to this self (as the first speaker talks about,) you are trying to bring ego to that self, and is a last grasp at "I am." It is rare to ever experience this self purely, as it is always diluted and changed by the only way we can access it, which is through our body, identity and mind. Trying to say that the pure self is unique is the work of the ego. Why do we have to claim the awareness at the center of us as us, if we all are made aware by the same phenomenon why would each instance be unique to the individual?

@mikesamovarov4054

11 ай бұрын

Yes! My SELF is all of humanity. There's no separation! No egos.

Finally!! An explanation that includes culture. Our selves can also be extended to our past, present, and future, both spiritually and physically. We all come and go. We all die a physical death, but our spiritual selves live on.

@vladniculae6114

3 жыл бұрын

That goes exactly against what Sam explained...

@itsROMPERS...

3 жыл бұрын

That is absolutely ANTI-THETICAL (opposed to) anything said here. They don't say our "spiritual selves live on" which is good, because they do not. You have no past life, and you do not go on to be someone else after you die. Think about it: what point is there to being someone else that you can't remember? For that matter, maybe, besides being yourself, you're also living as someone else RIGHT NOW! Couldn't "soul sharing" be a thing? MAYBE WE'RE ALL JUST THE SAME PERSON, but if we are, what difference does it make, you'll still feel just like you do. It's not like you can still speak Swahili from another life. Basically, there just no reason to think we have "souls" that live on, there's no reason to think we have souls at all. But even if we did, we can't knows it, so what good would it be? If you can overcome your fear of death my thinking that you continue to live as a stranger, great. But it's meaningless. Sorry.

@mikesamovarov4054

11 ай бұрын

Culture is learned. It's not our SELF. Culture is flexible and therefore fake attribute, like clothes or physical body. My SELF is all of humanity. There's no separation or death. Life keeps on going and evolving, I am all of life and all of this universe. I am everything. I am ONE.

Very interesting. I guess the one upside to being undefined in identity like I have been with BPD, I haven't been restricted in choosing who I can become if I work on it and redefining who "me" is without the same rigidity that others have. The worst was dealing with the empty spot that was there and fear of making a leap to moving toward individuation away from codependence as the self. At 31 years, I've barely begun inching toward my start.

Want to learn about your "self" and grow? Do what makes you uncomfortable and doesn't come naturally to you as long as there aren't any physical dangers involved or moral lines you are crossing. We are wired to survive not to thrive, so this has you pushing into the unknown like surviving. In doing this you will learn an immense amount about your "self", grow, and learn new skills in the process. The uncomfortable things are only uncomfortable at first right before you start and/or do them, but then it gets less uncomfortable as you learn nothing bad is happening to you. You learn to conquer the fear of the unknown within. An easy way to go about this is to prepare first before doing the uncomfortable thing, ie. Speaking in Public: first, you start small, like teaching a class of some sort. You prepare to teach the class and then teach the class. Then, after a while, you plan and prepare to give a speech or presentation to a larger group of people. Finally, you give that speech or presentation. Continue to do this more times. Throughout this process, you will learn a lot about public speaking through planning, studying, preparing, and experiences giving public speaking. In the end, you will have learned much about your "self", whatever uncomfortable thing you took on, and the lesson that it wasn't what your mind made it out to be. It was less uncomfortable than you thought! What makes you uncomfortable reveals a lot about you to yourself. You have to be willing to look exactly where you don't want to! There lie the treasures that are within; which is in and is the "self"! Your "Self"!

Sam Harris made a comment about many feeling as if they were a self being carries by a body....paraphrase......never felt that. Maybe because I’m a musician and we know that sometimes the fingers take over and we are just part of the ride. I’ve finished a tune and looked around wondering how we got there. Our hands and feet are so involved in ourselves they can’t be separated.

@youknowwho9247

3 жыл бұрын

The sale is true about your brain. Every bit of conscious deliberation "you" have ever done was just physical processes of cause and effect. That's what most people don't realize. They assume there's an ego doing the thinking. There isn't.

If you liked this video, I highly highly recommend Michael Puett's introductory course on Chinese philosophy. It's free on edX and really easy to follow even if you're not a philosophy nut.

@vvh923

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks will check it out!

I think there is a core feeling of self that is consistently present, although it gets camouflaged by various moods. We can certainly get far away from the self that resides within us. Emotional problems will blot out this core self, however. Once the chaos is resolved, we find our true core, again. At least this is what I think and believe today. I wonder how I will feel tomorrow; hopefully the same. I can evaluate my sense of presence, daily by thinking of the Polyvagal Theory, using the three different levels. High. Mid. Low. It's an accurate tool that I happened onto.

I like the model of identity of it being a localization of consciousness that has its nature and drives effected by personal desires, external phenomena/environment. That seems to hold true whether that consciousness is located in what this video over-generalizes as the east or west. East or west can apply to anything. You can be different if you grow up on the rich east side of town or the poor west side of town.

Hey, that's a nice self vid . Concise, no music, strait up good stuff about the cosmic noodle. thanks Our sense of 'self' is the context of humanity that has helped shape meaning to this experience called life. its been there of a long time, a product of countless struggles and victories. i wonder if it has outlived its usefulness.

@troy3456789

2 жыл бұрын

The "self" as people think they have (this is going to bake your noodle) derives from the myth of free will.

Love it! Learned some valuable insights into being more culturally responsive. The self is so interesting in a social or individual context. My thought for the moment is that freewill is proportional to the amount of world views we can willingly act on.

@earthjustice01

3 жыл бұрын

So, animals aren't free? It seems to me that animals make choices, but are not at all aware of other world views.

@HeathSawyerisHeheboy

3 жыл бұрын

@@earthjustice01 Hi Charles, animals are certainly free to make choices but the motivations connected to those choices are not as diverse as our own because of metacognition / our ability to think about our thinking. Said another way, the more information, knowledge, experience or wisdom we have to draw upon, the more combinations of new ideas we can potentially create.

@earthjustice01

3 жыл бұрын

@@HeathSawyerisHeheboy I don't know if you can plausibly argue that the degree of freewill is proportional to the amount of world views we can act on. The most significant choices we make are sometimes intuitive or gut reactions that have nothing to do with world views.

@HeathSawyerisHeheboy

3 жыл бұрын

@@earthjustice01 I get what you're saying but every single person has at least one world view and that will influence them even subconsciously and that view will likely effect the choice they make. It is a basic instinct to want to live for example whether animal or human but given the circumstance and belief system a person may choose to die. Suicide bombers, terrorists or even pacifists that choose not to fight back when their life is in danger are examples of this. Gut instinct may actually be more social conditioning than we think. What we say is acting on instinct is likely a statistically predictable response for most of our own social / ethnic group and can be measured. I think there is more than enough science, psychology and philosophy out there to argue the point.

@earthjustice01

3 жыл бұрын

@@HeathSawyerisHeheboy There is a difference between free will, which one could argue that you either have or you don't, and deliberation about choices based on reasons. We have more reasons than animals and thus richer and more varied choices. Free will does not go by degrees because it is more a conceptual framework. We must assume freewill in order to understand what we do and why we do it, as well as why we judge behaviour in moral terms. whereas a lot of animal behaviour can be explained simply by instincts.

Can we appreciate for a moment the simplicity in which concepts that we are unable to even recognize about ourselves are being articulated?

Great distinctions of the self to kick off 2021❕💯

i find that my perceptions of 'the self' have evolved .. now i see a 'laughing Buddha' behind things, i see myself as a culturohistorical palimpsest .. being in the world but not of the world .. free from desire, free from emotion .. an observer from another dimension .. yet steely in determination in THIS realm.

@allertonoff4

3 жыл бұрын

i'm just the fool on the hill watching mountains of clouds rise and fall

@itsROMPERS...

3 жыл бұрын

"palimpsest"? Nice. I wanna be a palimpsest too!

@allertonoff4

3 жыл бұрын

hadn't you noticed .. you already ARE ! ;] ..

@allertonoff4

3 жыл бұрын

​ @That Guy .. what a nice and thoughtful guy .. don't worry yourself Amigo .. i am quite stoic and Zenlike in my attitude toward social media, it is a madhouse of exploding information, i like to get a little bit MAD MYSELF .. indulge myself in the flocking CHAOS :]

Nice. Thanks guys.

Excellent upload.

The self is the memories and the decisions we'd make based on them. Both body and mind are not self because they have their own agency (your body doesn't ask you for permission when it issues an immune response nor does it tell you what it did; your mind doesn't ask you for permission when it throws thoughts at you in "auto-complete smartphone" fashion.

@WoodenSpoonz

2 ай бұрын

If the self is the memories and the decisions we'd make based on them, does it mean you are no longer yourself if you have amnesia?

Thank you for the video

I wanted to comment "I feel a headache coming on" but after reading the comments I realized I'm just dumb. There are really smart people. Although I feel it's paradoxical that we're having a complex conversation about self when as Mark Epstein said; we take it more seriously than we should. Even though the complex conversation is letting us know we shouldn't. My head hurts.

Appears a though the greatest societies are built in millions of individuals asserting ourselves... Life shouldn't be measured in how well one complied

I believe that by attaching the idea of the "soul" to this self (as the first speaker talks about,) you are trying to bring ego to that self, and is a last grasp at "I am." It is rare to ever experience this self purely, as it is always diluted and changed by the only way we can access it, which is through our body, identity and mind. Trying to say that the pure self is unique is the work of the ego. Why do we have to claim the awareness at the center of us as us, if we all are made aware by the same phenomenon why would each instance be unique to the individual?

@mikesamovarov4054

11 ай бұрын

Soul is the opposite of ego! Ego is your body with its needs and desire to take and consume. Soul is in our connection to others, to evolution of life on earth, and everything in the universe. Soul is one humanity. Our SELF is all of us, together! There's no separation or death. Only one desire to give and create. Big difference!

How does one choose when we, "just choose" [1:57s]? It is no longer a choice but an abdication to choices made by another entity(ies). A purely individual freedom based approach can make one feel more alone in a deep sense although socially we can form meaningful friendship and relationships with other like minded individuals. I would also argue that our perception of our selves in relation to the world is affected by a lot of noise from the volume of information fed to us using algorithms to skew our notion of ourselves wrt to the world around us. For me, value systems are important, once defined (and refined over time), I am free to frame my existence and information hitting me against my values and inner identity.

For once I'm actually impressed with something Sam has to say, and find it very deep and thoughtful. Beautiful even. Makes me want to finally dive into his and Peterson's debates.

I loved the video, especially Gish Jen's part (why say "& more", mention her by name, too!), since I'm Indian, and we certainly have an interdependent society rather than an individualistic one.. And I'm certainly gonna read that book by Sam Harris, but the "3 layers of your identity"? Am I missing something, or is the title not relevant to the content?

@MrOssyMoro

3 жыл бұрын

If you are not gay, arranged marriage with a random girl is good, isn't it?... keep your duties Asian society, I need my rights.

@brownie9620

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrOssyMoro you don't know what you're talking about, do you? Ps. Arranged marriage isn't forced marriage.

@MrOssyMoro

3 жыл бұрын

@@brownie9620 I know VERY WELL what I'm talking about. Indian parents expect you to get marry and have a bunch of children, they put a lot of pressure on you, I saw it with my eyes! I know you are not forced to marry in arranged marriage, but your sexual life and love relationships should be your business, not a family business. In Italy no many people get married and have children nowadays and that's great! Life is better without those little monsters around, more time and money to spend for ourselves. We only have one life.

@Pluto102

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrOssyMoro Go enslave someone or steal some lands..

@MrOssyMoro

3 жыл бұрын

@@Pluto102 I'm communist.

Gish Jen. Why isn't the woman who speaks first in the title of the video?

@rememberitsallagame

3 жыл бұрын

Good question, I liked what she had to say the most.

@CosmicValkyrie

3 жыл бұрын

Editor made an oopsie.

@money619er8

3 жыл бұрын

The others guys (i know harris is) are probably more famous, and they want more clicks on the video

@ascgazz7347

3 жыл бұрын

@@money619er8 well that’s pretty shitty of them if true.

Who’s to say we only have 3 layers? I’m more than sure this idea will change. It’s like how they used to say there were 5 stages of grief, but it’s now been updated to 7. Or how there only used to be the ‘fight, flight, or freeze response’ - but ‘fawn’ was added to that list of survival responses in more recent times. My point being, I think there’s DEFINITELY more than three layers to someone’s identity. It’s silly to attempt to measure that.

“These are the people who will encourage you to go after your dreams and will inspire you to succeed. Stick to them like a barnacle to a rock.” ― Steve Backley

I exist, and to know that you exist you have to be conscious of your existence, it is this knowing that you " be " or " am " that is the self.

I find myself being drawn more, and more to eastern philosophies.

The more "sophisticated" accounts of Buddhism I encounter, the more ridiculous the whole thing seems to me. Granted, our images of ourselves can be a source of illusion and self-deception. There are myriad sources of illusion and deception, so I wouldn't worry too much about our sense of self in particular. We have a sense of ourselves because it helps us to make sense of things. That's a good thing.

@youknowwho9247

3 жыл бұрын

That's debatable. Most scientific evidence to support the opposite claim, which is that our sense of ego prevents us from making sense of things.

@earthjustice01

3 жыл бұрын

@@youknowwho9247 I guess that's why we've been so unsuccessful at populating the planet compared to other species.

Important!

If I change my mind or beliefs am I still the same me (self)? Ship of Theseus. I think the eastern notion of ego dissolution has to do with this and the attachments formed to the parts. Anything you identify with in order to define yourself ; job, country, beliefs, hobbies, muscles, money, etc, you will either lose or change at some point in your life and this will inevitably cause great suffering unless you learn to detach from the ego and it's identification with things that are impermanent. Now if only there were an easy way to accomplish this. lol

Asian philosophy and culture is on point for living a happy and fulfilled life.

Wow, I haven't heard that music from Final Fantasy VII in forever🤣

I like Gish Jen, Michael Puett & Mark Epstein. I got lost in Sam Harris's turn - it was too deep for me. The more I learn about human psychology, there's this mix sadness and clarity that I get. Is it just me?

Gish gen makes a lot of interesting and insightful remarks

ถึงอย่างไร ขอมีคำไทยบ้างนะครับ จะได้เข้าใจตรงกันทั้งโลก

" I love you " the self is what love flows through.

@mikesamovarov4054

11 ай бұрын

Yes, we are one love. One life. One consciousness in this universe. Probably divided in many planets, and many individual bodies fully connected as one Creature!

True sense of freedom comes when we are no longer driven by ego. In Muslim religion the Quran says what we think is just an illusion and we are separated from the reality with a veil. The dreams we dream when we are sleep also seems real .. so who knows if like inception what we think is real actually is another layer of consciousness in our dreams.

What is secular? What is religious? Within the usage here. Important and needs to be explained.

Until neuroscience is more complete in the understanding of what consciousness is I will not believe everything in our mind is from physical interactions

@mikesamovarov4054

11 ай бұрын

Consciousness is our entire humanity, evolution of life on earth and everything in this universe. One connection and one consciousness. Science of Kabbalah already studied this, it's not new info. It's thousands of years old.

Nothing Is good or bad and nothing is right or wrong.we are born by love and should love with forgiveness and thankfulness and survive by taking geographical and seasonal foods is life.just live.❤️❤️❤️. this is all self, selfish and concious.❤️🙏

@mikesamovarov4054

11 ай бұрын

No, ego is body with its needs to consume. Soul is all of us and everything in this universe, as one. Soul is spiritual and giving. Ego only consumes. Huge difference! Soul is love. Ego is destruction.

True self is knowing there is only one. The only freedom we don’t have is living in a society. As more individuals act in groups more self choice you will have. My opinion

If it has no significance to specify our differences then by that system similarities have no significance as well. They should both carry equal significance and be understood for the two sides they hold upon the same coin.

Did anyone have any books or articles or anything about eastern and western identity? Even studies or something

Condensed!

Believing nondualism ‘I’ think the Self is the idea that we are seperated from our others while we actually exist as one energy always in movement, living our lifes experiencing individualism in the west with ‘free will’ and in Asia more all together. Fortunately ‘I’ am both;)

@hartinivanrijssel8986

3 жыл бұрын

@ozymandias nullifidian For me it means Awareness or Universal Love/Life

As someone who grew up in a culture of duty, and obligation, I actually don't think it's entirely healthy. Sometimes, people are so engrossed in "duty" that they don't even talk about how they really feel, and that can lead to pretty unhealthy relationships. But at the same time, I feel like the over-obsession on the individual and one's own identity in the West is also not very healthy. We need a middle ground.

I find it strange that the first speaker, who happens to be the only woman, is not represented in the title.

"We are a process". Bravo.

Big Think: What do you think the self is? Me: googles the word self. "The self is an individual person as the object of its own reflective consciousness." Ah, got it. Thanks, Google!

I’ve wondered for a while now it’s simply theoretical but if we were to slice away a human who could do die at what point exactly would our consciousness and sense of self be locked to, I suppose the head and the brain, like if we were to decapitate someone, their experience of self I imagine would still be in their head and not the body that’s been detached from them, if we started chopping away the ears, eyes lower jaw, your consciousness is still somewhere in the brain 🧠, I just wonder if we were to take apart different areas of the brain at what area is our sense of self tied to if that makes sense? I know we are able to function without certain areas of the brain, like is our sense of self tied to the hippocampus or another region? I suppose it’s a bit of an answer less question but yeah I’ve often wondered 🤷‍♀️

Me, Myself & I. 😊

Just follow what you're told is great until it isn't.

Soul consciousness is complex and quantum, not defined by the intellect or any culture. It’s a dynamic expression of thought, emotion and experience which originates from within our nature. Listening to people intellectualize the self as if they’re experts just shows me they are not experiencing or expressing their true nature bc they’re trying to define it. The self is..explore it from the inside out

"Know thyself" was written at the top of the Temple of Apollo at Delphi. Of course, we are unique, and of course, we are not the interactions of our neurons.There is a tendency in modern societies to use all means even ancient religions or even science to make us feel and persuade us that we don't have a self and that we are all the same like the masses and so, that we need to behave like the masses because it is the best way to control the masses. So, it is going to take a lifetime because people tend to repel what they don't like about themselves, or what they are even afraid to face about themselves and they repel it to the subconscious, as Carl Jung aptly stated. So know thyself!

We are processes but the processes that can be intelligible to scientific analysis are not all indentical, completely random, or infinite, no, to exist does not mean to be an indivisible unit, but that doesn't mean formless, shapeless, infinite either which is to say everything one has a definite self just most people mistake this for what they and others think about them.

Whatever your cultural beliefs, it's pretty clear that every individual is unique. Even if you have an identical twin, he or she has had at least some different experiences than you have. A culture that pressures people to conform instead of focusing on individuality isn't necessarily an improvement.

@mikesamovarov4054

11 ай бұрын

As much as each individual is unique, the SELF is still ONE creature. There's no separation between individuals. We are one with other people, our evolution of life on earth, and the entire universe. We are one consciousness. ONE. Our SELF never dies as well, only individual body dies. Not SELF.

Sooo... what exactly were the 3 layers again?

@ulrikfriberg8995

3 жыл бұрын

The three sea shells, don´t you know?

I live in the west but never had the mindset, I naturally form a mindset similar to that in the east.

This is so important love it! my self is growing every day. I don't like avocado's so I'm gonna say I'm not an avocado though...

@pattonjeffrey6

3 жыл бұрын

Huh?

@OlleyThorpe

3 жыл бұрын

@@pattonjeffrey6 they say the self is like an avocado 🥑 😂 and I don’t like them. 🤣

@crystalsunshine

3 жыл бұрын

@@OlleyThorpe Well I chuckled Olley. :p

@russb24

3 жыл бұрын

No problem, just be a nut!

@crystalsunshine

3 жыл бұрын

@@russb24 Nuts are healthy!

Hello selfs

The ego is a master of deception. It will tell you everything you want to hear.

I don't think self has an identity outside of the physical manifestations that we are and experience. Myself, himself, herself, ourselves. Self is not unique to the individual the individual is unique to self. Self physically manifest and self organizes into many different physical manifestations. Self finds personal identity through experience. Internally self has no identity at all. There is only one self and it lives inside of all of us. Take away our memory, experiences and our ability to look in a mirror and all we have left is an internal self peering out into the world searching for an identity. Without memory to reflect upon experience self can't identify.

In the post modern societies, the individualism is becoming more and more artificial instead of nature. People are deliberately making massive effort to be different but deep inside they want the same things. Sometimes the individualism has also manifested itself as being self-centred or being selfish.

What buddha had said are beyond our imagination and yet so true, are we really exist and what left if we are really exist in this universe

Is this the ultimate coincidence that triggered the fan to shut down just when I thought about it and all other appliances were running smoothly

All the people who have gender dysphoric discussions forced on them as if it was the zeitgeist norm of the age can really benefit people overcome the concept of over labeling themselves and the obsession with self

I am a strange loop, an illusion, an anomaly, a temporary aqueous solution in a gaseous environment.

In Buddhism, the self is not negated. In Buddhism, meditation and enlightenment called nirvana is focused on. Nirvana is achieved when we realize that the self is not separated from the others. The realization is that I am you and you are me. The self is not negated but heightened to the higher self through the realization. All is me and I become all. All is nothing and nothing is all. All things visible is temporary and void invisible is everything. It is consistent with the quantum mechanics. Everything transforms into everything. Everything is in everything. Everything is another version of me. But choice also matters. We could be pigs. We could be cows. We could be a Buddha if we could get to the truth. ^^

To sum this up. 1. Body 2. Mind 3. Soul

@igot5onit423

3 жыл бұрын

Body ..yes Mind.. check. Soul🙄🙋‍♂️

@igot5onit423

3 жыл бұрын

@ozymandias nullifidian a made-up concept so people will feel better about the end of their existence.

@igot5onit423

3 жыл бұрын

@ozymandias nullifidian 9 times Outta ten the most rational explanation is the right one.. Random is the word of the day.

My opinion: the “selfless” philosophies of the “east” seem conveniently tailored to authoritarian rule.. it seems it would be much easier to rule over a population focused on “duty” and being part of the herd. While “western” individualism can lead to some angst in life, it also seems to promote creativity on a number of levels not seen as much in the “east” … who is creating new smartphones, software, fashion, etc, and who is copying?

@vijayvijay4123

2 жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more.West experience life and the world actively while East experience them passively but it is such passivity that brought out a variety of esoteric physical disciplines such as martial arts and yoga.

Min 230 - min 320 With regard to the elderly, we USED TO live like family and share intergenerational responsibility. Then? We made a choice as a society hell bent on winning (winning what I do not know, but whatever) and then we raced off to nuclear families! We skipped passed healing between marriages and created turmoil for ourselves. We did, to a certain extent, leave a portion of "duty" behind. But then we came up with an elderly home reality! Yay! Our species is so smart! And it worked for a little bit but then we ran into some snags. So then we ran back looking for family to solve the problem. Well, skip a few generations of taking care of the family and YEAH! yer gonna get some conflict. But it was a choice. Some elderly didn't want to be cared for because they didn't believe the same thing as the person most capable of caring for them in their family. They PREFFERED taking the elder home option. Its not just about the youth saying "i don't feel like it", its about all the individual realities we've been given permission to have. Not just as a society under a constitution, but as those who comprehend quantum physics and or who are in a free will relationship with their god or version of a higher power. We're just now finding ways to blend duty and self. I for one am entirely on board. I am a single person with 1 child. And the likelihood of my ex and I dieing nearly at the same time is pretty high. So why am I expecting my only child to care for me and her father at the same time generally speaking. And then what is her reality? Its being told to go be the happiest self FO A LITTLE WHILE and then,at the very end, do what you were born to do. Take care of mom and dad. ...yeah. No. So,as an AMERICAN 🇺🇸 with choice and free will, i do the duty I feel bound to IN MY WAY and remind everyone its their responsibility to take care of their own selves. Now. Because I was in that middle blendy wake up generation, what we have is 2 realities that don't match and its likely mostly due to americans rushing. Because that's one thing we got really good at. So,i have a great aunt and grandmother,and a slew of aunts and uncles ALL from that generation that didn't keep traditions going and didn't maintain learning together, and ALL OF A SUDDEN here we are in a relative quandry. No pun intended. Will we solve it? We want to. Because as breeding beings, it willALWAYS BE TRUE, that humans will be born alone (yes even twins) and die alone. And its what we build today that matters. America is in PROCESS. CHINA IS NOT NOR HAS IT EVER BEEN IN ALL THE HISTORIES I'VE READ ON CHINA. ...well, except that one female who they nearly entirely erased, who actually did well and loved the people. ...

The third man....& i choose to like it...this is one algorithm..

ONLY HERE FOR SAM HARRIS!

@_BobaFett_

3 жыл бұрын

Largely, Indeed.

Why they use avacado analogy instead of onions? 🥺

Study shows that there is a high possibility of existence after death. Proving the destination and the purpose is still work in progress. But soon, we will realize that if there is a "continuum" of existence after the physical death, then that means your actions in life are not meaningless... This goes to positive and also negative actions. There is always a cause and effect. The self is define by the "choices" you make. To understand the self, one must remain still, and allow the self to speak.

@TheMasterhomaster

2 жыл бұрын

What study? What bullshit are you talking about?

@Icarusrider

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheMasterhomaster If you approach this with that kind of bullshit attitude then you can forget about it. Because you are just looking for a fight that doesn't exist. But if you wise up and want to actually understand your life then start by reading about Carl Jung, and Professor Jim Tucker.

@TheMasterhomaster

2 жыл бұрын

@@Icarusrider Jung and professor Tucker don’t offer any empirical evidence; only theories. Any theory can make anything possible. Problem with people like you is you take a grain of sand and make it a mountain.

@Icarusrider

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheMasterhomaster Don't worry, you will find your mountain once you cross over. Most of your bellicosity comes from your fear of the unknown. Keep punching at everyone and everything, it will all come back to you at the end.

@TheMasterhomaster

2 жыл бұрын

@@Icarusrider you know nothing of me. I have no fear of death or the unknown. Keep spouting garbage about karma and other delusional shit; your belief isn’t everyone’s reality yet you have the typical new age woo woo arrogance that it is. For someone who is so “enlightened” you’re so full of yourself. You’re probably some 25 year old kid who thinks he knows it all.

We are all prisoners of our own perspective.

@earthjustice01

3 жыл бұрын

But we don't have to be. Nothing is stopping us from trying out different perspectives to see what they are like.

@3self

3 жыл бұрын

@@earthjustice01 yes YES. And the internet can used to help with that but unfortunately, it’s has done the opposite as most individual are in ego chambers.

I agree with this. We are all the same boring obvious mess, no matter how especial we try to make ourselves. We should just be human and die like everybody else. It's liberating.

@mikesamovarov4054

11 ай бұрын

Humanity has one soul and it never dies. Stop seeing yourself in fake isolation, we are ONE. There's no separation or death, evolution keeps on going! The only thing that dies is the body. But you are not your body!

The experience of self-transcendence and consciousness expansion is far more ordinary than many people want to give credit for, it has been hijacked by the religious and spiritual as the true self, which is in itself absurd, as there is no self to hold true and the experience itself transcends self and notions of a solid 'I' Enlightenment is not about recognizing that this idea sold as a magical self-transcended state is the ultimate state of human experience, some kind of peak point, that would require still another layer of scrutiny via asking 'what is true' here. true enlightenment is seeing through all the illusions even the experiential transcendence to arrive at a point where the truth of what you are is an empty nothing with biological needs to survive for a period of time.

Eat Corolina reaper :D No place for ego when you look for the relief :D

In the East, evolution is taking more of a collective emphasis. In the West, the emphasis in more on the Individuality..the ego or personal self. In Truth, we are multi dimensional Beings. The Soul or the Self core is the evolving Individuality. This Soul or Self is Divine yet personal. There is a Higher Self that the Hindus call the Atman and which the Buddhists call the "Buddha Nature". The Christ nature in the West is equivalent. This Higher Self or Causal Self is Spirit and is Universal. The goal is to heal the ego/shadow, integrate with the Soul or Self core (located center and behind the heart) this is called Self Realization. When the integrated Soul person integrates at a higher level with the Atman or Divine Spirit, this is called God Realization. This is so rare in humanity, perhaps only a few dozen individuals have attained it as a steady stage of consciousness. A secular materialist approach will only reveal the surface aspects of Self. One must do the actual work of integration. How do I know? After 35 years of grueling inner work, I have attained Self Realization.

Good points, but they are being attributed to an incorrect cause. It's not a matter of "self"; It's a matter of discipline, or, more precisely, the lack of discipline being instilled by authority figures. When children are not taught certain values at home, and that vacuum is left to be filled by society as a whole, and by the children's teachers for the most part, we have the end result that we currently have in our young "adults". I was raised to be respectful and to work toward the goals of the family, the team, etc. But people of my age, from the same geographical and demographic groups (including literal next-door neighbors with whom I was raised), people who were not taught these values, are now those same self-centered people whose default position is their own gain. It starts, or doesn't start, at home.

The body lives in the now. The heart is present . And the mind is the time traveller. Deal with it.

Self is an avocado

What the next person said is exactly what I have believed from childhood.

"Of course, I'm different. Why would I make a big deal of that?" Who else wishes they lived in Asia? Baizuo is out of control.

choice might cause anxiety, but duty causes depression suicide rates in asian countries is much much higher than in the west. South Korea employs people full time to patrol under bridges in boats for fucks sake. first talker was a cultural warrior and not so much talking about self, but about macro cultural differences

Yeah, but many of the people around you will resist your changes no matter how beneficial those changes are for you and some of those people will resist aggressively or even violently. 5, 16, 73 and 74 on my sociopath list come to mind.

Recovery Mode: Engaged

If every consciousness is an illusion then nobody exists effectively? Also is it an illusion to an illusion?🤔

Epic

I cannot help but have the strongest impression that she only touches the outer surface of the real matter.

🥑 So you’re calling me fat?