Thx uncle Steff. Insightful video as always.

Love your vids. Keep up the awesome dev work and have a happy 172nd birthday this year.

@StefanMischook

11 ай бұрын

Thanks! Gracias! Merci!

Agree Stef. MERN stack is really just a stack for tutorials/learning I think, but this is often not communicated in tutorials and so newbie coders fall into the trap thinking it is popular in the job market. It is rarely used in the real world. Echoing some of what was mentioned... Relational database is nearly always preferred, document db is for niche requirements. Learning two languages is really useful for your skills and knowledge too, it allows you to compare and contrast between differences in other languages which will make your foundations and understanding of programming stronger. You can learn how different languages deal with things like packages, compilation, modules, oop or functional paradigms, static or dynamic typing, it will likely help with learning data structures etc too. You will also just be a lot more marketable in the job space.

@eg4933

10 ай бұрын

ya shut up but kisser.

@ai_serf

4 ай бұрын

it's never the language that slows me down. it's having to learn new languages.. we should always be hesitant about preoptimizing our stack. i would prefer a stack that uses only one language.

@edmundob.guevarra9565

4 ай бұрын

This. The only reason I'm using the MERN is for learning purposes since most full stack project courses on KZread are on MERN stack. My preferred backend is Python + Django Rest Framework + any SQL database. I'm also considering ditching react altogether sticking to just Django + HTMX + SQL but job opportunities are whats getting me stuck in the frontend learning hell.

As an occassional programmer, a single language is a HUGE advantage for me. I can completely understand if you're a pro.

@mario_luis_dev

11 ай бұрын

languages are fairly easy to pick up. The bigger complexity is in learning and getting comfortable with frameworks. If learning a new language means that you’ll have a framework that works best for your needs, then it’s a much better choice than just sticking to one language and dealing with a more limited framework that’s only going to give you headaches in the long run

@michaelholmes924

9 ай бұрын

Suddenly front end focused programmers are not professionals? Some people want to focus on something besides making a backend work in a new language.

@mario_luis_dev

9 ай бұрын

@@michaelholmes924 frontend developers don't have to worry about picking up new languages as much as backend devs do, but they have to keep up with the ever evolving landscape of frameworks and libraries that seem to be coming out every single month...You spend a considerable amount of time learning a new library and by the time you get quite good at it there's already three other new competing libraries that are even better than the one you studied...

You're absolutely right. But when it comes to looking for a job then we've to be specific to language because company will preference to candidate who is more proficient in that particular framework.

Thanks for the vid, Stef! Personally, I tried writing an app using NestJS on the backend and Angular on the frontend, and I found myself getting confused as to what part of the code I was looking at, because it all looked so similar. I'm sure I would get used to it with time, though, and I'm sure for some it works very well. As with pretty much everything in programming, there are multiple viable ways of going about things.

Thanks Unk. Good advice.

i use REACT or VUE with LARAVEL and its works awesome. laravel is very easy to understand and its syntax are gem. i hope if PHP introduce something like react based on PHP that would be great lol.

@vatsalyavigyaverma5494

5 ай бұрын

Livewire

@aadityathapa

Ай бұрын

I think livewire is something like that

@DEBUGENTITY

Ай бұрын

@@aadityathapa ya but no one use it in market right now.. React & js frameworks are capturing the frontend market.

@aadityathapa

Ай бұрын

@@DEBUGENTITY True that’s why I use react myself too

It’s funny how these people would rather spend their time learning some BS new front end framework but yet they’re afraid to learn another programming language.

@blackshock4able

11 ай бұрын

Even though I still a newbie and didn’t get a job yet but i always tell everyone programming is not about only html css and js, every programmer even web devs need to learn some programming basics and concepts, data structures, algorithms, design patterns, testing, system design concepts, no one should be a proficient at these subjects but having some understanding to an extent would impress the HRs and lets you write better code.

@Limestarz

11 ай бұрын

I think the thought process wasn't that they are afraid to learn another language, but that they could build out a full stack app faster then someone that is learning a new language. At least that was the heavily implied argument that you heard online about why you should learn nodejs.

@pablom8854

6 ай бұрын

" learning some BS new front end framework " cool, keep using templates.

@Itwasnme

3 ай бұрын

I'm a new front end developer, I am currently learning react, thinking of going mern. But mostly because I also want to go into data science and game development. Us mern stack still a bad idea

@pablom8854

3 ай бұрын

@@Itwasnme Go with mongo if you have a use case for it, if not, use the default: sql

I think ExpressJS is great if you're building something really straight to the point. NestJS is built on top of Express comes with a lot of handy stuff out of the box, such as dependency injection, jest, logging, swagger, etc. But even so I'd still think twice before commiting to Node specially if my domain is highly coupled.

thank you so much for the video, please if you can the next time try to give us at least one example, when i should use many languages and why exactly ?

@nsilou

2 ай бұрын

Msal khil khoya!

I am just about done listening to conflicting opinions from various tech KZreadrs. One says to learn this, the other says to learn that, this is good, no that is bad. I'm sticking with JavaScript, Express, React, and PosgreSQL for now in the web development course I registered for. I need to lay off KZread and Twitter it seems.

@StefanMischook

10 ай бұрын

Well said!

More jobs in node than django. Spent a year and barely and jobs seen. More in node but most i see are 5 years or fullstack

Here's the question If this is just talking about individual developers. Your argument could passed. But if this is a small company or small starting company, wouldn't they always start with a techstack they know? Then just change when needs to come?

@actionphotopassion5082

11 ай бұрын

A startup will push for the cheapest solution. Meaning the most mainstream monkey coding thing to do. And that is clearly javascript. Being reat, vue, express whatever. But yeah the most mainstream is the way to start. I worked for a startup, the stack was vuejs for the front a'd django for the backend. Was a cool experience but always the same story with startups, no money 😂😂😅 So in that conditions, it's obvious that this kind of company won't bet on Oracle solutions and powerBI for instance... At least certainly not at the beginning. So javascript, nosql db.

Listen to this man. I fell for this when I wanted to get into software. There were hardly any MERN jobs in the US. Focus on something that enterprise uses to increase odds of getting a job (it's not mern). I wasted a year of my life on MERN when I could have gotten a job way sooner. That is some serious harmful advice out there.

@Mr.mysterious76

10 ай бұрын

What combination got you the job? What do you suggest i should learn after javascript/react?

@yumyum7196

10 ай бұрын

@@Mr.mysterious76 for me it was C#/.Net

@ichbinhier355

3 ай бұрын

@@Mr.mysterious76 front end react or angular back end java or php or c# forget about node js

@Mr.mysterious76

2 ай бұрын

@@ichbinhier355 Why should i forget about nodejs?

This video is very true, I was thinking about this topic recently when I was talking with someone else using/learning the lamp stack. Now, I am using the mern stack in some of my projects. One of the selling points was indeed the fact that it was all javascript on backend and frontend, but Stefan left out the actual sale's pitch which was that "startup's" were using mern or at least nodejs with some form of javascript in the frontend and all that jazz and that was the argument for startups to want to hire you because if you just know javascript they could train you on the backend to make you a fullstack dev. But, so far in my backend experience I can say that I could have gone with probably anything else and would have been just as lost. Having said all this if what stefan is saying is indeed true then I can simply switch stacks just as easy, and no harm no foul and I come away having learned another language. While I think mongodb can be problematic the usage is very similar to sql and I think if I had to change back to sql it would not be a problem but I did learn sql first so maybe thats why idk. As far as switching to other parts of the stack like lamp (or something) I think its not as easy as Stefan says, at least for newbies because the ecosystem for people learning is all about the resources online and newer books. I think React and python have a massive ecosystem at least in terms of resources. So, to some extent and especially true before tools like chatgpt came along I hedged my bet on where resources would likely be. And if you have bought tech books you know that deprecated code is the worst so you might have tech stacks that have been around awhile but the resources might be too outdated. At least, I have experienced outdated resources quite a bit. So, something like mern where you have books or resources online it might not be the best its more likely to work somewhat because of how much newer it is. But at the end of the day I think it doesn't really matter because if you are going to progress as a software developer you are going to learn new languages all the time anyway.

Awesome video I have see. A lot of these online boot camps pushing mern. I am worried people trying to get into tech will learn this and find out the job pool is too small.

Never understood the whole obsession with the whole “same language for everything”. I use Spring Boot professionally and Rails for side projects. I’ve never once had an issue when I needed to sprinkle some JS for reactive elements. It’s all the same concepts

would create a video explaining sample small industry projects you need to create to showcase what you know to you employer rather than one big project with no dynamics to demonstrate for example small projects like a checkout page, pdf generator, import/export excel payment integration page crude operation, qr code scanner, email/sending, authentication user sign up and many more features used in the real industry that you would suggest to get that spot to get hired

🖖🖖 Hi I am an up and coming nerdling. I just wanted to ask you a few questions. What is the difference between your bootcamp and the individual courses you have on studio web? If I buy all of the courses on studio web is that the same as your bootcamp? Love your content thanks Stefan.

@StefanMischook

11 ай бұрын

Hi! The main value of the bootcamp, is the bi-weekly group coaching sessions, where you get to ask questions and listen to our discussions. This is done on zoom ... so these are live video calls. Beyond that, there is about 70hrs+ of exclusive video material, all the courses and certifications.

.... Or you just can use Express, React, Node and SQL. ( For just in case somebody ask you what is your stack and feel a bit confused, just say: I'm a SQLERN developer )

@cornevanstraten7664

11 ай бұрын

PERN is a common stack (PostgreSQL, Express, React, Node). Maybe that's what you mean.

@dainelgarciga9814

11 ай бұрын

Yes, that fits the idea well, I didn't know the term, thanks.

@user-th2cp8uh8r

5 ай бұрын

I'm not a pro yet but is it true that a combination of sql and no sql is the best? transaction for sql and general data for nosql?

I was caught up in the mern craze as well, later switched to pern (postgres sub for MongoDB). rly depends on the specific requirements of the project.

I agree with you but these new JS frameworks actually shrink the time you put in developing a project like next.js

Yeah, you are absolutely right about using only one language. But if a indie dev wants to develop its saas idea quickly then learning mern because they all use same language makes sense. Agree ?

@pablom8854

6 ай бұрын

No, thinking in React is not easy, MERN isn't easy. This guy puts the MERN stack as it was easy to learn and then in the comments, all php programmers start to talk about it as if it was easy. There's a reason why I don't follow this guy, somehow they videos appear in my feed sometimes. React is hard, thinking in React and bulding your app in top of this isn't easy and to properly move data you need typescript so it gets a lot more complicated. Mongo is very powerful, this guy talk about it as if it was some random toy but it isn't.

@pablom8854

6 ай бұрын

Also the problem is that we have so many "fake" mern stack programmers(from bootcamps) that it seems like it is easy but in reality is hard to master.

@mma-dost

6 ай бұрын

Absolutely man @@pablom8854

HEY MR STEF ?? I purchased your 2021 web dev course but I see you updated it should I purchase the 2022 version??? is there huge changes ??

@TN-es7ei

11 ай бұрын

You should have lifetime access, so you could try to look at the new material in the course.

Any real project is serverless and serverless projects can use any language they want, whenever they want. The js documentation is great and why learn another lang if I have no reason to?

Nerdlings is a really good word to describe them lol

Worked a job that used an Express backend. I liked the simplicity of it, but Express is not suitable for any medium-sized app or larger. It's not a reliable technology because unhandled exceptions (in asynchronous code) can cause the backend to timeout. It becomes difficult to maintain as the app grows as well.

@DevlogBill

11 ай бұрын

Ristas, do you find with Express you are writing lots of async code like promises, setTimeout, and setInterval? I don’t know much about JS backend frameworks but I think I may have heard something about since it is JavaScript your using async a lot.

@amcmillion3

11 ай бұрын

Express is absolute garbage I have no idea how it got as popular as it is.

@risitas5874

11 ай бұрын

Because it's super easy to understand and get started - unlike Enterprise Java@@amcmillion3

@risitas5874

11 ай бұрын

@@DevlogBill Old code may be using callbacks. Newer code will use promises or async/await. setTimeout and setInterval is very rarely used and usually there is a better way of accomplishing what you need to do

@DevlogBill

11 ай бұрын

@@risitas5874 Thanks for letting me know. I only asked because I've working with Django and I even tried out Rails once but ended up staying with Django. But not once had I seen on the backend async? I only hear async with node and JavaScript frameworks. I thought async would be only used on the browser? I was amazed to find out it was used on the backend. Still learning backend technologies.

Take tech influencers with a grain of salt. Single language could very well be beneficial.

i just love it when a 20+ it experience guy goes, "So you think JS is going to make your life eaiser?". Shit is about to go down

Yeah, to me its a little weird that with all those MERN, MEAN, MEVN.. we always have the commonality of mongo in heap, as if its being promoted in some ways. Whereas sure there are situations where RELATIONAL dbms would serve the purpose better, say if one builds something beyond traditional webstuff where data structure's more complex.. No wonder In modern realities we have more advanced db models & tools like graph and even graph-relational dbms which of course have their place in industry, but very few talk about.. So i would argue mongo is not the king

You are telling EXACTLY what I m telling to other new to the field guys!!!! ❤❤❤ The most new guys are hearing others from KZread or other platforms some "ex-Googles" and the thing that this is the only right way to build web aps, and when comes the real world booom....

Thanks Dad

Indeed, only writing javascript could make your coding easier but your deployment will be harder, due to it's dynamically typing system, you'll take too many null, undefined errors way more than a statically typed language. This hardness also exist for php. If you can handle the more hardness on your code than choose a statically typed language. But writing with mern stack means using microservice architecture and it's more harder to code and way more harder to deploy than monolith apps. Young nerdlings, trust me. I've used both of them(actually, i used pern stack, only database is not mongodb, but postgresql) and i'll prefer to do make monolith apps with express hundred times more than other.

What are your views on Golang on building the rest API ? Or should I learn node js..

Over the years, this stack is so rarely used in the real world, I always thought of it as a Programmer Bootcamp stack to get people over the fear of using new technology.

@iraholden3606

6 ай бұрын

Proof?

@busyrand

6 ай бұрын

@@iraholden3606 Job search and work experience...

@syjay

5 ай бұрын

I work in a company and we use this stack alongside python and django strictly for the backend , also most people I know work in different companies use this stack with some exceptions , y'all need to stop these reverse myths based on your personal experiences the world doesn't revolve around you

@na2718

4 ай бұрын

@@syjay It's not a "reverse myth" - there are jobs that use that stack, but they are very few, both comparatively as well as in absolute numbers. And @busyrand is right - there's a reason practically any bootcamp I've seen here teaches MERN - not because the opportunities are huge, but because it can be done rather quickly to the point where they literally hire the people that finished their bootcamp to teach the next. Good for the business.

I do t think language is important, as long as you stick with one and get really good at it

React will make your life harder.

MERN is a great stack where a lot of deliverables fit the model. Where I see lots of problems is the gravitational pull into monolithic architecture it seems to have with junior devs. I have mongoDB collections with millions of rows and 0 - 5 relationships between collections. The query time differences between that and SQL are negligible. Any db driver can be poorly used. SQL asserts dominance when the tables have LOTS of fields and foreign keys, and sophisticated queries are being used. Nothing wrong with MERN being the first stack and swapping out the parts that don't meet a spec. With all that said, just don't use Ruby and you'll be fine. 😂

@nickfleming3719

11 ай бұрын

Monolithic refers to an app that avoids using a ton of microservices. Monolithic architecture = good.

@moestaxx286

11 ай бұрын

@@nickfleming3719 monolithic is way more simplier. once you get to microservices shit gets way more complex lol

@destroyonload3444

11 ай бұрын

@@nickfleming3719 monolithic = neutral. microservice = neutral. Requirements apply pressure to the scales of one architecture over another.

@billvvoods

11 ай бұрын

Monolithic = smaller and hard to scale/extend.

@zeyadaghaffar

11 ай бұрын

whats wrong with ruby

its too hard for them.... mom is not there to bring them cookies and milk and tell them their are doing great just becasue they exist.

thanks.

@StefanMischook

5 ай бұрын

Welcome!

The one language for everything thing is just another way to sell an idea. I've never fell in that trap.

I am a MERN stack and I am going to stick with it 😂😂😂😂😂

@The.Now.Network

10 ай бұрын

Yes brohh😂😂, I'm also thinking of learning it..this is how these KZread'rs make money, they just talk like they know everything...sometimes you have to try it for yourself and seee..

@Yarkaha

10 ай бұрын

yes! they make money through recommending frameworks or new shinny things and get paid. and throw you on a clif and then recommend you to their courses..@@The.Now.Network

@Twst3628

9 ай бұрын

Human being, how can you be an abstract idea/concept??

@Yarkaha

9 ай бұрын

All human being are just driven by abstract idea@@Twst3628

The notion of MERN itself is quite silly. Why limit yourself to mongoDB? Why limit yourself to nosql? Even limiting to yourself only to JavaScript is silly, but in my opinion it's still a viable thing to do (I've been doing full stack javascript for a few years now and enjoy it). I just don't get the "M" in MERN.. why limit yourself to one specific database? ERN is totally fine by me, plenty of companies who use express, react and node.

@asagiai4965

11 ай бұрын

Technically you are quite right, why would you limit yourself. Just use and programming and techstack and database you want. Though the reason those MERN MEAN ETC exist is because they probably want a standard practice on development.

@iraholden3606

6 ай бұрын

​@asagiai4965 Also it simply is the most used tech stack in industry atm according to every single poll

Hey Stefan, I think you are just way to long in the game. It makes huge sense to start with MERN - simply because you can build working apps with one language only. When people have been coding for a long time they tend to forget that it makes life way easier if you don't have to learn different languages at once in the beginning. However once you want to get a job as a programmer, you are right - you certainly will have to learn additional languages.

@StefanMischook

8 ай бұрын

I am super long in the game. My ex told me that often enough.

MERN is for the noobs. Thanks for confirming what I always thought. JS was never designed for backend.

@pablom8854

6 ай бұрын

This, the reason why I don't follow Stefan, he always endup talking trash about JS and the comments, of course full of php programmers will agree.

@breezystormatic827

6 ай бұрын

@@pablom8854 i did not say js was trash. Just not the best for backend. Stefan is talking from experience. you better listen :)

@pablom8854

6 ай бұрын

@@breezystormatic827 I'm a fullstack Next/ react/Express, Python/C++, I started to code around 17y ago I don't need to listen to this guy.

Well MEAN/MERN/LAMP/Django/Flask stacks are basically the same thing. The real deal is that all those newest so to say Technologies are probably 15% to 20% of job offerings, actual IT working dev tasks. The current project I'm working on is an old struts fw based app'. But considering the industry using this, I am pretty confident that struts and cobol are still more than 80% of the global market = big commanies (insurance, banking, automotive industry, telco). So basically the "newest" are for newer companies (startup). Noone can push big financial industries to pivot to new technologies. Conclusion: errr only dinosaurs in IT like you and I can help those companies with their struts applications, it's clearly not the kind of framework a rookie would like to put the hands on 😂

MERN as a term is obsolete anyway. Since meta frameworks like Next, Astro, Remix and another...

Ahhh MERN…

replace Mango with MySQL lol

this old guy is the php guy, think even ddid not have any coding experience, MERN stack with single JAVAscript language is a great advantage, especially for making logics. PHP can not do frontend, mainly localstorage on the frontend. laravel is good but not embracing node as backend. MERN is the best . easiest and the most powerful. MERN has the future.

@StefanMischook

6 ай бұрын

I am the OLDEST PHP guy. I knew PHP when it was called P.

@ashokbishwas

6 ай бұрын

@@StefanMischook sorry for hard words, but python and Javascript are the jewels of computer science, do not discredit them.

@Dgmstudios40

6 ай бұрын

@@ashokbishwas "MERN is the best . easiest and the most powerful." This line discredits everything you said.

First off. MERN Stack can not fit the classic or legendary story of a Myth. Its not that old. If the point your are making is that the all encompass JavaScript foundation should not be the singular choice, compared to the other "full Stack" development environments which require a polyglot attitude. If any serious web/App developer wants to achieve credibility rather than a IT certification, then it is always worth to consider the core requirements of the real world PROJECT(s), not just the tools one uses. When a old fart of a carpenter goes to a new world machine shop, they may not know how the machines work, but should be skilled enough to produce better furniture than ikea, using his/her own tools. The big point here is, do you want to buy furniture, use the best long lasting or sell furniture? MERN could be good for a e-commerce furniture store project for a Lecture coursework . But there is a lot more to consider. Of all the 100s of online or GIT MERN projects, I have not seen one that is fit for purpose, but we will see.

432

5 mins of a whole load of nothing.

@StefanMischook

6 ай бұрын

Takes 15 minutes to understand.

This guy is just a hater