I grew up in the modern charismatic church, but have recently found my way into this denomination. As someone from the outside, I can say that I've received a very warm welcome and have been treated very graciously. I don't believe I've found a Church that endeavors as much to give Christ the preeminence in head, heart, and hands, which is a beautiful thing. Though there were many distinctives mentioned in this video, I believe the Gospel is the heartbeat of the Church, and the preaching of Christ is the sweetest I've experienced anywhere. To anyone in the United States: you're warmly welcome to come visit our congregation in Texas anytime!

@ReadyToHarvest

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Joshua for coming by and sharing your experience!

@mkshffr4936

2 жыл бұрын

That would be a treat.

@ETHANGELIST

Жыл бұрын

Amen Joshua! I love my FP church in Auckland ^_^

@BandlerChing

Жыл бұрын

This church has a history of hiding child abuse. They seem very friendly and welcoming, but the next thing you know you are homeschooling your kids (because you don’t get invited to things if you don’t). You find every aspect of your life becomes public domain. Very intrusive.

@bloodboughtbigphilr8266

Жыл бұрын

To their credit, like the Free Church Of Scotland that they split from, the Free Presbyterians have always been strong on the free offer of the Gospel to all everywhere and sets them apart from high or hyper-Calvinism.

You do such a fantastic job of explaining different sorts of Christian sects in an objective and unbiased manner. And I love that you cover some of the smaller, more obscure, and sometimes downright bizarre ones. Keep up the good work, my brother.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

Depends where you are. The Free Presbies are a small church but do a lot of international missions, so are less obscure than some independent congregations.

@doraashby

2 жыл бұрын

What do you mean by “downright bizzare?”

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

@@doraashby You could probably start with snake handlers or any which involve flying saucers.

Nicknamed in Scotland 'the Wee Wee Frees', 'the Wee Frees' being the Free Church of Scotland who they seceded from. Largely found in the Highlands and Islands and a lot hold their services in Scottish Gaelic which is the everyday language in many parts of the region. Definitely the strictest expression of Presbyterianism in the U.K. Not far behind is the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster who despite the name they have no connections with. The Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster was started by the late Ian Paisley and influenced more by American fundamentalism. Paisley was close to the Bob Jones family and was often a keynote preacher at Bob Jones University for special conventions.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not convinced Paisley's lot are that Presbyterian. He was practically moderator for life, or at least a long time. Yes, a notable number are Gaelic speakers, but the organisation has not served the language well, unlike Protestant churches in Wales.

@bloodboughtbigphilr8266

2 жыл бұрын

@@thursoberwick1948 I suppose Presbyterian in name only as that has a strong resonance in the North of Ireland connecting a big chunk of the Protestant and Unionist community there to their Scottish forebearers. Paisley was the son of a Baptist pastor. The church he founded allows both infant and believers baptism. His brother Harold was a great evangelist who had a fruitful ministry and associated with the Plymouth Brethren (Open) spending most of his years in Canada. Unlike Ian, Harold steered well clear of tribal Ulster politics.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

@@bloodboughtbigphilr8266 One major difference is the Scottish FP are linked to Gaelic, see here - kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWeB3LyggKWyY7Q.html But the Paisleyites hate the Gaelic language. I agree with your point about the Baptists, strong Baptist influence on the Paisleyites.

@bloodboughtbigphilr8266

2 жыл бұрын

@@thursoberwick1948 I think it's more Irish Gaelic the Paisleyites have a downer on. The Scottish Free Presbyterians like a lot of Wee Frees too would be very nationalist in outlook favouring Scottish independence from the U.K. This would majorly set them apart from the Free Presbyerian Church of Ulster who strongly view themselves as British and want to maintain the Union in it's present form.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

@@bloodboughtbigphilr8266 Surprisingly, some of the FPs are very anti-Scottish independence. I find the Paisleyite opposition to Gaelic hypocritical - there are a number of Protestants recorded as speaking the language in the 1901 and 1911 censuses. In fact there were more Irish Gaels in the Shankill protestant area of Belfast back then than the Falls Road RC area.

"The wee kirk, the free kirk, the kirk without a steeple The auld kirk, the cauld kirk, the kirk without the people." A chant about the relationship between the Wee Frees and the estsblished Church of Scotland. As a Catholic from Scotland, I have no dog in this fight. Though my father and his family were nominally part of the Church of Scotland.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

In a way you do have a dog in this fight. It may not seem like RCs and these folk have much in common at first site, but both exist in spite of an established church.

@spraffman

2 жыл бұрын

@@thursoberwick1948 You're right - never thought of it that way. It's also interesting that the Western Isles have a strong population of both Wee Frees from Lewis to North Uist and Catholics from South Uist to Barra.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

@@spraffman Both for similar reasons although the outward forms are different.

@Alan_Mac

Жыл бұрын

This vid was about the Free Presbyterian church, not the Free Church. They are separate denominations.

@spraffman

Жыл бұрын

@@Alan_Mac I stand corrected. The Wee Wee Frees.

Could you do one on the Free Presbyterians of Ulster

I met some of these guys once. Disagree with Presbyterianism at large but got a lot of respect for anyone this zealous and traditionally oriented

@Phill0old

2 жыл бұрын

What's your problem with Presbyterians?

@enochrockwell7202

2 жыл бұрын

@@Phill0old presuppositional differences and different origins

@Phill0old

2 жыл бұрын

@@enochrockwell7202 So that's a whole lot of nothing. What presuppositions do you think we have?

@enochrockwell7202

2 жыл бұрын

@@Phill0old it's a whole lot of everything haha. Protestant ones for a start. I'm not about to argue in some KZread comments section dude, I was just making a comment and it was a positive one

@Phill0old

2 жыл бұрын

@@enochrockwell7202 You dissed Presbyterians you can't say why, ok.

Very cool to see you doing these. I’m in the Presbyterian Reformed Church and hoping to see that video soon.

@TheChancerian

2 жыл бұрын

Mason!!! What’s up buddy???

Good and fair summary. I've been attending an FP church in Auckland for 8 months. Been greatly blessed by the Lord. They are VERY gospel and eternity centered. It's good to be challenged in our many assumptions and to be called solemnly to seriously serve the Savior. (say that five times fast lol)

@FollowerofJesusChristmySavior

9 ай бұрын

Are u referring to the one in Otahuhu? If so how is it there?

@ariannaarohas

8 ай бұрын

I would also like to know how it is at this Church? I know the Lord is leading me to stricter spiritual discipline. And By God's Grace I found the otahu church online.

@FollowerofJesusChristmySavior

8 ай бұрын

@@ariannaarohas could I have the link ?

@ariannaarohas

7 ай бұрын

@@FollowerofJesusChristmySavior sorry I did send through the link but it got deleted you can Google it online they have there sermons on there.

Should do the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) denomination - similar to the FPCS yet still holds some differences

Great video! I would love if you do a video on the Independent Lutheran Church in Germany. Just as a video idea since we are mostly unknown too due to the long time of state church policy in Germany. God bless

Thanx, Joshua🌹🌹🌹

Would love to see a segment on the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster & their sister churches, the Free Presbyterian Church of North America. I do not belong to either of these. I am an Independent Baptist, but am interested in your researching these for others. Thanks for your hard work. It is appreciated. Keep it up!

@ReadyToHarvest

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Elbert! I definitely will do a video on them at some point. I have had others request it. I would like to do a set of videos on denominations in the British Isles too. So much to do!

@JudithSanchez-ht6jn

2 жыл бұрын

Our Lord Christ and the decirles preach one gospel but the reformation allowed that any person established many congregations than today people even without study the Bible’s claims that the Holy Spirit revealed to him or her.

Still looking forward to an eschatology video. :)

Their website reads right now that they are closed for the Sabbath and against internet usage on Sunday on every part of the site.

@TheChancerian

2 жыл бұрын

Yep. Strong sabbatarians.

Perhaps you can cover on Bible Presbyterian Church

As someone from Scotland, I’m intrigued, what led you to cover the FP church?

@Rydonittelo

Жыл бұрын

We have them all over the world.

These people hold out in Scotland mainly in the Gaelic west where they share the Outer Hebrides with Catholics and other Protestants of a less rigid persuasion.The southern half of the archipelago is mainly Catholic and the northern half mainly Protestant.

A footnote: the FPCS, unlike other churches in Scotland, explicitly and unambiguously opposed a "yes" vote in the referendum on Scots independence for the UK. Why? Because the United Kingdom remains technically a protestant kingdom subject to God; the Scottish National Party promotes the model of a strictly secular, non confessional state. Haven't checked but I think the statement may still exist somewhere on their website (which incidentally closes down for the Sabbath - go there on a Sunday and you can access only a firm but courteous message explaining that the internet is not proper for the Lord's Day).

Ironic that none of the members can watch this video when it came out

@TheOrangeGrove

2 жыл бұрын

Yes they can - as long is it is not on the Sabbath. We never watched television and only listened to the news sometimes on the radio as adults.

@grangermontag1824

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOrangeGrove The video was released on a sunday

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿WE ARE THE PEOPLE 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 ✝️

@k-v-d1795

5 ай бұрын

I know many scottish people (all of them protestant) and I always wondered if this church is loyalist in essence? I've never seen any of you using the UK flag.

Many of their distinctive attitides and beliefs were once widespread amongst Scottish Presbyterianism but their innate conservatism has meant they now are the sole defenders of these views.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

The Free Church of Scotland, the Free Church Continuing, the Cameronians etc may disagree.

@paulthomas5088

2 жыл бұрын

@@thursoberwick1948 Yes I agree these Churches have also upheld the Reformed faith.

I dont know if this is an applicable request... but ive been deeply curious about Celtic Orthodoxy. They arent in communion with the East however. Its an enigma 🤔 Also, Great video!

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

It's really a two men and a dog outfit. Mostly a handful of eccentrics. I kind of wish there were more of them but there aren't.

This is crazily unexpected to have them in Ukraine.

@grangermontag1824

2 жыл бұрын

Also Singapore and Mozambique. Must be missionaries

🎧 Podcasts? 🎧 Does this creator have a podcast on Google or can anybody recommend any good Podcasts along this or any other interesting genres? Any will do. I'm very open and broad minded. Many thanks 🙏😉

@ReadyToHarvest

2 жыл бұрын

I do put my videos into audio form and upload them as a podcast, but I have not been consistent with it. Just search for Ready to harvest in your podcast app. At some point I will bring it up to date. I have been exceedingly busy the last few months on a project for December which I will announce later this week.

@London-Lad

2 жыл бұрын

@@ReadyToHarvest thank you 🙏

@sorenpx

2 жыл бұрын

Be more specific about what you're looking for and I might be able to provide some recommendations. Right now your request is a little TOO broad.

@London-Lad

2 жыл бұрын

@@sorenpx hmm 🤔 Suggest a little known, understated podcast that you would love to suggest to people of any genre? :)

@ReadyToHarvest

2 жыл бұрын

I like to listen to the futility closet podcast also.

God bless the FPC. I love their Psalmsinging so much. Greetings from Germany.

Neat denomination: although I don't intend to join them

And here I thought a perfect church didn't exist.. 🤯

There's one in N Ireland? There's 2 within a few mile radius from me and I live rural. There's actually 560 in NI and 230,000 members. X

@ReadyToHarvest

Жыл бұрын

No. You're talking about the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, which is a totally different denomination.

Are there any mainline denominations that practice baptism by immersion alone?

@ReadyToHarvest

2 жыл бұрын

Depends on what you mean by mainline denomination, but in the US, The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and American Baptist Churches USA are considered mainline and only baptize by immersion.

@daveb9342

2 жыл бұрын

@@ReadyToHarvest Thank you. 👍

@Mic1904

2 жыл бұрын

I may have misunderstood your question, but in my experience, the vast majority of Baptist churches, and certainly Reformed Baptists, tend to baptize exclusively by what you're calling 'immersion' (I assume you mean a person submerged fully in water, which I call submersion).

I’m glad the Lord is more open and welcoming than denominations.

Oh wow my dad grew up in their church and I often went along to their services with my gran. It was quite an experience, very different from my own church. Very 'backwards' from my POV: you stood up to pray and sat down to sing (only psalms of course and no instrumental music) and all the men wore black suits and all the women wore skirts and hats, like it was fifty years ago (this was in the 2000s/2010s). Sermons were 2 hours long minimum and prayers a half hour long at least (once there was a second sermon in Dutch for some visitors from Holland). Congregation was a mix of Scottish and Dutch, mostly all (my) relatives. Never thought I'd see them covered on here lol. They're an interesting outlier in the Protestant world. Not exactly fundamentalist but definitely not Evangelical either (being Hyper-Calvinist and all). I guess the closest label you could give them would be a kind of Protestant Traditionalism, in that they try to replicate as much as possible the exact manner of worship and spirituality of the 16th century Scottish Church. In a lot of ways they remind me most of of Orthodox Jews, what with how legalistic they are.

I'm a baptist and this is based

@requiem7204

2 жыл бұрын

Nope

What's the difference between songs and hymns?

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

Musical backing. They are very against any kind of instruments in church other than the human voice.

@TheOrangeGrove

2 жыл бұрын

They sing psalms as in the bible.

So very few churches attempt to follow the Bible as much as FPCS does. God bless them.

@Rydonittelo

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Not often you hear people speaking about us positively these days 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

@ea5port419

10 ай бұрын

They are modern day pharisees

@CanadianAnglican

6 ай бұрын

At the Anglican Church I go to all are welcome to partake in communion even if you aren’t baptized.

@jamesreed5678

6 ай бұрын

@@ea5port419The Pharisees were condemned by Jesus for making up their own rules rather than following scripture. Is the FPCS making up its own rules? Or, are it's critics doing this?

@SZD.

3 ай бұрын

Good to know that you support slavery and r∆p€

There are probably many Christians who would be delighted to be part of an organization that has this long a list of criteria for full membership. It seems also probable that half or more of such people would not join an organization that teaches that government (i.e. taxes) should support their own or any other religious organization. The next question is when or how we (English-speaking people) will adopt a definition of "religion" sufficiently inclusive to include people whose understanding of the universe opposes the concept of a supreme being, thus preventing governments (i.e. tax money) from being used for the purpose of promoting THEIR beliefs or enforcing THEIR prohibitions.

Is this the same church as the Free Church of Scotland Continuing?

@ReadyToHarvest

2 жыл бұрын

No. We will be talking about both churches in next week's video.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

No, it's not... This is the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, aka an Eaglais Shaor-Chleireach or Wee Wee Frees, as opposed to the Free Church of Scotland, aka an Eaglais Shaor or the Wee Frees. An Eaglais Shaor Leantainneach (the Free Church continuing) is a recentish offshort of the Free Church. All three are similar in flavour and have a connection to Gaelic speaking communities, but are different groups. The Free Church Continuing is by far the smallest.

@Mic1904

2 жыл бұрын

@@thursoberwick1948 Not quite sure where you're getting that from - by most measurements, the FC(C) is larger than the FPCS in Scotland (at the very least, not 'by far' the smallest by any metric). Though, with the benefit of 100+ extra years, the FPCS does have a wider, larger and more impressive foreign and mission component (though, the FC(C) being slightly less separatist is slightly more inclined to cooperate fraternally with local indigenous like-minded Presbyterian churches than the FPCS, which accounts for some of that difference). Relatively speaking, as far as the alphabet-soup of smaller conservative Presbyterian groups go, they're by no means a small group (no where near the Church of Scotland or residual Free Church of Scotland by a long way, obviously).

I always thought that “Free” as related to Free Presbyterian was in reference to the “Free Church” movement where they believed in the “Separation of Church and State” and thus refused state sponsorship of their denomination! Am I mistaken here? What you are saying is the exact opposite! I don’t understand why they would believe only Psalms should be sung whereas the scriptures clearly proclaim “Psalm, Hymns, and Spiritual Songs!”

@esserman1603

8 ай бұрын

'Free' refers to being free from the power of many landlords, who would choose ministers in churches with ease in Scotland a long time ago.

@Mic1904

3 ай бұрын

You are using the term 'Free Church' in the sense of 'Evangelical Free Church' which is a mostly American term that you are correct in saying highlights a separation between church and state. This is a completely different meaning and context of the term 'Free Church' which refers, as the commenter above me has said, to a Presbyterian movement in Scotland to reaffirm the church's freedom from land owners to impose church ministers on the people. They remain thoroughly in favour of the Establishment Principle, however, where the Government is duty bound to protect and promote the Christian religion.

"we don't add rules to scripture except for KJVO and only referring to God using thee and thou in prayer"

@esserman1603

8 ай бұрын

You can also use 'thy'

Luther said the papacy was the anti christ, not the pope. Is this the position of the various Presbyterian groups? They refer to the organ as "the Devil's bagpipe".

How does the Free Church of Scotland differ from the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland?

@esserman1603

8 ай бұрын

The Free Church of Scotland is less conservative than the FPCS.

well this is very close to my own Presby denomination but I wear jeans to church 😛

@williamjameslehy1341

2 жыл бұрын

Heathen! Gather the kindling!

@mikezeke7041

2 жыл бұрын

What denomination are you?

@peachsangria8704

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikezeke7041 RPCNA

I’ve been a member of the PCUSA my whole life. While I probably disagree with the FPCS in many ways I wouldn’t mind checking out one of their services.

So to what does the word “Free” in their name refer?

@Mrchevybelair57

2 жыл бұрын

Free from the church they left I assume.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

It's to do with established churches and landlords. The Church of Scotland in the old days used to have their ministers appointed by the local landowner... which was a big problem in the Highland Clearances, when people were being forcibly evicted from their homes and its aftermath. The Free Churches were set up to be "free" of the influence of both the state and the landowners.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

@@inwyrdn3691 Don't discuss history you don't understand, bud.

FUN FACT: "Lord's Day" can be translated in both Spanish and Portuguese as "Domingo".

Good luck trying to read anything from their website on a Sunday.

Where in Scripture does it say that you can only sing sitting down? Or prescribing the frequency of communion, or communion seasons? They are going beyond Scripture.

@Mic1904

3 ай бұрын

_"Where in Scripture does it say that you can only sing sitting down?"_ They quite clearly say, as quoted in the video, that both sitting and standing for singing are acceptable and Scriptural. They also don't prescribe frequency of communion for anything other than organisational reasons - traditionally, members would travel to neighbouring churches to commune with each other throughout the year, with each church taking on the responsibility of hosting such a thing usually something like 1-2 (I've occasionally seen 3-4 in other traditional Presbyterian groups) times a year. The end result is that, actually, members are communing frequently, and not just with their own church members, but communing with other churches and Christians. So in that regard, neither of the two things you highlight are 'rules' in the sense you've asserted them as, and the results are Scriptural in practice.

@anselman3156

3 ай бұрын

@@Mic1904 My point is that every church does things which are not specified in Scripture. God has given the churches responsibility to organize times of assembly and forms of worship. If I remember rightly, I was responding to the claim that the FP Church only does what is laid down in Scripture, viewing what other churches do as not laid down there. So, some of their criticism of other churches can be applied equally to them. Incidentally, it is Scriptural to kneel in prayer, but I think they never do that in their congregational gatherings.

@Mic1904

3 ай бұрын

@@anselman3156 _"My point is that every church does things which are not specified in Scripture."_ Well, no, friend. All you did was list two things that weren't actually true. You can't make a 'point' with two claims that are untrue.

@anselman3156

3 ай бұрын

@@Mic1904 What do you deem to be untrue? It is true that Scripture does not give specific detailed instruction for the organizing and ordering of worship. The Presbyterians no less than other traditions have to make decisions about these tings, but Presbyterians tend to claim that others are not being Scriptural. Is my statement about the absence of kneeling in FP congregational worship untrue? I would be happy to be corrected if you would tell me when this happens. I think it is also true that they forbid using musical instruments in worship, and the OT allows for them and the NT does not forbid them. Also, they limit singing to psalms, but the NT does not specify that only the psalms can be used. Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs are mentioned.

@anselman3156

3 ай бұрын

@@Mic1904 and then there's the matter of roman collars, and black clothing or gowns for the preachers, while objecting to other church's vestments. Or the forbidding all images but often using an image of a burning bush. These are my observations.

Not sure why they'd hold to the King James Bible when it was commissioned to counter the supposed Calvinist slant of the Geneva Bible, the version of the Puritans.

Some interesting insights here; thanks for sharing. I grew up in a very similar Scottish sect and my step-grandparents were FP (although never church members, which I'll return to in a moment). I think that calling the FPs "post-millenial" may not be right; I believe them to be amillenial. In my experience, FPs never had TVs, so they wouldn't be watching them on any day of the week. There is a somewhat crippling feeling of unworthiness among her people (as well as my own), which prevents many fine Christians from even trying to be admitted to the Lord's Supper and thereby becoming church members (many, like my step-grandparents, remain adherents for their entire lives). They adhere to all the rules and attend every service (twice on the Lord's Day and a "Prayer Meeting" during the week, traditionally on a Wednesday night and a further "Prayer Meeting" on a Saturday night), but the severe and debilitating lack of any assurance of faith is tragic. It's a little bit like they don't realise that the sacrament is intended for the unworthy and that Jesus still keeps company with those who doubt they'll ever be "good enough." I grew up in a church with remarkably similar distinctives. It is a denomination of much more recent origin, of which many of my family are still a part, and many may resent being compared to the FPs, but it is a fair comparison in my opinion. www.freechurchcontinuing.org/

@ReadyToHarvest

Жыл бұрын

I talk about the Free Church (continuing) in this video, perhaps you would also find it interesting. kzread.info/dash/bejne/Zmaoo66undaccdo.html

The Uncial lettering in their logo is very aesthetic.

Hello, can you do a video on those snake-handling churches?

I'm not sure about the Pope is the anti Christ, but I get where they are coming from. Kjvo is kind of irksome tbh, but it's something I could let slide depending on how militant they are about it such as saying kjv saves us.

these guys make the lcms look like the elca

@Mic1904

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly... as someone familiar with this denomination, and aware of the LCMS - you're not even far off!

FrEeEdDoM!!!! -William Wallace, 1298

I am from Singapore but never heard of Free Presbyterian Church. There are Presbyterian and Bible Presbyterian Church in Singapore. Bible Presbyterian are fundamentalist but it is no longer a denomination as the Bible Presbyterian churches no longer have the Synod and each church are independent, just hold on to the name Bible Presbyterian

This is like the Calvinist equivalent of monasticism

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

How? They don't live in sequestered communities or wear unique clothes. Or have choirs.

@TheOrangeGrove

2 жыл бұрын

Some of the teachings and sermons we listened to at the FPC were from a former monk converted to calvanism. He was a purist. I see Free Presbyterian Church religion as purist - spent over 30 years in the Church.

@alejandroalessandro7820

Жыл бұрын

​@@TheOrangeGrovewho was the converted monk? I know of converted Catholics, Jews and others in the FP church but not a monk!

No Christmas Or Easter!?!? :( That sounds pretty Puritanical. :(

@TheOrangeGrove

2 жыл бұрын

No and we didn't miss it either - if your not brought up with it - you do not miss it. We celebrated New Years Day and gave presents on New Years Day and attended Church and shared the same as a "Christmas" lunch on New Years Day.

based

Did this "totally not-legalist" denomination think that their restrictive communion is biblical? The more the church is willing to control the Lord Supper, the more they tend to be moderators between God and humans

@TheOrangeGrove

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I never could take communion as you would almost have to be perfect to partake - and no human is perfect in Gods eyes - therefore I could never be a member and make an oath and why I never took an oath and baptized my children in the Church as wouldn't want to break an oath to God.

@Consplunkable

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheOrangeGrove Hi SB! I think that we both know that the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland has never sought to claim that you need to be perfect to take communion, and that to do so would be contrary to their genuine evangelical beliefs. However, many Christians could not in their conscience become members (a requirement for taking communion), as they knew that the restrictions that would be placed upon them were in conflict with practices that they considered to be right before God (including attending weekday meetings run by other evangelical denominations). It is in fact the restrictions on exercising liberty of conscience that formed the background to a very sad split within this denomination in 1989. I am not clear what oaths you are referring to, but I do respect the idea of being cautious about making vows before God; this is entirely Biblical.

This gives Steven Anderson vibes.

@Mic1904

2 жыл бұрын

I do sort of know what you mean, with a kind of KJV-Onlyism and a seemingly extreme fundamental approach to a number of issues. I will say though, this church is in the old Scots Presbyterian stream influenced by John Knox, the Westminister Divines and English Puritanism, and being as they are staunch Calvinists, Steven Anderson I imagine would hate what they stand for. Their KJV-Onlyism also does not extend to the (imo, cultish) view that the KJV is a perfect inspired autograph, merely that they think it's the best current English translation.

Thank go for bill donahue, hidden meanings church.

So what's so free about them?

@robertguidry2168

2 жыл бұрын

They are free from government influence.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

They arise from a time when the Church of Scotland, the state presbyterian church was controlled by the king... and also during the Highland Clearances when Gaels were being ethnically cleansed from their homeland, the landlords used to appoint the Church of Scotland ministers. In the Free Churches the clergy were not controlled by either the state or the landlords.

How can they call Sunday, ie., the FIRST day of the week, the SABBATH??? Exodus 20 is very clear about Sabbath being on the SEVENTH day of the week.

@johnandrez

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, Sunday is the Lord's Day, the first day of the week, or as the Church Fathers referred to it, "the eighth day." The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, Saturday, which is obvious if you speak a Romance language: sábado, sabbato, samedi, etc. from Latin "Sabbatum/*Sambatum" aka. Sabbath.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

Depends who you ask. Sunday is the last day of the week and Monday the first for some people. It's all out of kilrer thanks to the switch from the Julian to Gregorian calendars

@Fynbosbeauty

2 жыл бұрын

Check your calendar

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

@@Fynbosbeauty Depends which one. Some mark Sunday as the first day and some don't. Like I say, it's irrelevant as we have not stuck to the same days we had five hundred years ago due to calendar reform.

@Fynbosbeauty

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, interesting... but as a Christian believing all Scripture it’s very difficult to misunderstand which day is actually Sabbath, the Jewish record stands and Christ himself plus his disciples and apostles were not confused at all. Sabbath is the 7th day of the week.

Think I attended one of their churches in Australia as I'm Reformed Calvinist and Presyterians are our daughter. Certainly different from usual Reformed or Presbyterian. Pews were like school. There was a board in front of you on which you placed Bible to follow sermon like a student. Kind of liked that. All singing was A Capella with no instruments or organ. Sermon mostly Calvinistic. The original Greek doesn't make distinction of Thee and Thou for God, but uses common pronouns for God. Got that one wrong and unneeded piety. God is a person!. The modesty in dress was true for men and women which is Biblical. I once made a woman go home and change clothes as she was obviously braless with flimsy top and told her I didn't want half the men in congregation tempted to crane their necks to see her breasts during worship. Don't like closed communion but do verbally fence the table as to who should partake: believe in Holy Trinity, believe Christ is your Lord and confessed that publically in church to which you belong, which included Catholics, and that you are a sinner whose asked Christ's forgiveness as he alone is our righteousness before God. (They got that right). That all are unworthy invited by Christ to his table. We also practice a preparation for Communion the Sunday before. Didn't find them the friendliest of churches. But Pastor and I spoke at some length after. Found it worshipful in different way!

@peterreynolds6235

2 жыл бұрын

The FPCS have congregations in Sydney and Grafton. But the Presbyterian Church of Eastern Australia, also a psalm-singing denomination with at least some old-fashioned buildings and rather more congregations than the FPCS have in Australia, have also historically been known informally as "Free Presbyterian". I don't know whether this is because of their historic connection with the Free Church of Scotland (parent denomination of the FPCS); also in Australia presbyterianism is only one of several major Protestant church types so an ambiguous description like "Free Church" would be less meaningful than it was in Scotland where Presbyterianism predominated.

@Mic1904

2 жыл бұрын

Certainly possible! As Peter has suggested though, and to add to the confusion, there are also other possible candidates - the tiny (2 congregation) Australian Free Church is similar, with its KJV-onlyism. The Presbyterian Church of Eastern Australia has a traditional heritage and exclusive psalmody, although is the tiniest fraction of a step closer to more broader evangelical Presbyterianism and not explicitly KJV-only. Just to infuriate and confound further, there's even the Free Presbyterian Church (Australia) which is, you'll be delighted to know, an entirely separate affair that instead derives from the separate Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster in Northern Ireland. What alphabet-spaghetti fun!

Woman headcovering is just Biblical commandment of the Holy Spirit. Just because many women and men dont teach this anymore, doesn't make those that do strict.

Although I appreciate their conservative stance, like almost all ultra-conservative churches, they are legalistic and have made up rules such as KJV only, no music, banning christian holidays etc

@sorenpx

2 жыл бұрын

The holiday thing I will never understand. If someone tells me they don't celebrate Christmas, I will think they are NOT Christian rather than that they are.

@johnandrez

2 жыл бұрын

Unlike Anglicans and Lutherans, many Protestants, particularly Puritans, didn't like Christmas. Too much partying, and too popish. It was, after all, a Catholoc feast day, and the idea of "feast days" and liturgical calendars seemed too unscriptural by many Protestants.

@johnandrez

2 жыл бұрын

Compared to today, where "Traditionalists" are sometimes convinced of a war being waged on Christmas, a holiday many of their Protestant forebears disdained as having dubious spiritual worth.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

They don't just use the KJV. Many are Gaelic speakers. They're famous for their Gaelic psalm singing.

@marriage4life893

2 жыл бұрын

@@sorenpx Did Jesus and the 12 disciples ever celebrate Christmas? Would you consider them Christians if they never did?

Relatively unknown? Some of us used to live in northern Scotland!!!

I would one day like to attend on of their churches. They are one of the only denominations that have not caved to the ungodly declension of wicked popish man-made holydays like Christmas. Also I have come to really believe Exclusive Psalmody is the biblical position.

@TheOrangeGrove

2 жыл бұрын

The FPC is definitely purist.

I like the anti catholic doctrine. I agree. I also agree with personal interaction or gnosis of GOD.

"Legalism means inventing rules and regulations that go beyond Scripture -- the Free Presbyterian Church does not do that." Really? Because I don't see anything about the KJV, for instance, in Scripture.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

A lot of them use the Gaelic Bible too, but the KJV itself is scripture. I don't find their arguments completely erroneous, when people are reading a dozen different Bible versions, it does mean people can't remember quotes as well. At least in my experience.

@RachelRamey

2 жыл бұрын

@@thursoberwick1948 that may be true, and I don't have a problem with people choosing to use the KJV, but when you make it a requirement, that becomes legalism.

@WilliamMcAdams

2 жыл бұрын

Well, the biggest zinger to me would be the condemnation of instruments. King David worshipped with every instrument available. Is God, not, unchanging? Why, then, would He enjoy worship with instruments then, but not now? Likewise, with the pants and "gender" distinctions. In the days our Lord walked the Earth, men and women alike wore tunics. We see, in the event of Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar that Tamar wore attire that *signified* that she was a harlot, and was so well covered Judah couldn't recognize her. Perhaps it has little to do with the orientation of the fabric, whether it be rendered into pants or a dress, but rather what those clothes signify, culturally. You would be hard pressed to find a Western culture that identifies pants as masculine in 2021. Much of it feels, very, legalistic in the fact that they impute sin upon it. If it is not agaisnt God's Law, there is no trespass, if there is no trespass their is no sin. So says the Word of God, in 1 John. They're free to worship as they please, so long as it is legitimate worship. However, do not impute sin on others for worshipping in a different, acceptable, manner. I percieve that too many of us read Romans 14 and identify ourselves as the "stronger brother", when in reality we are, often, the weaker brother.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

@@WilliamMcAdams It says in the NT women should wear head coverings in worship.

@RachelRamey

2 жыл бұрын

@@WilliamMcAdams there are instruments in heaven, in Revelation, too.

sunday worship is false. what do they call it instead?

@hey-xb9qn

26 күн бұрын

Instead of using the term "Sunday", they'd probably call the day "the Sabbath", or "the Lord's day".

What's the deal with KJV-only protestants anyway?

@esserman1603

8 ай бұрын

A friend of mine who belongs to the church says it is the most accurate. One reason is due to the 'thees' and 'thys', the other she says is that since it was the first time it was nessecary, translators must have done the best effort, and that it was translated very well compared to others. For information about KJV only, read some TBS (Trinitarian Bible Soceity) articles.

Wow this does not seem Presbyterian to me but bordering a cult. I was Christened and confirmed in the mainline Presbyterian Church in the USA, one of our Pastors was from the Church of Scotland which is the mother church of Presbyterians. This is nothing like us nor our teaching. I cannot even begin to tell you how shocked I am. But I guess it should not, there are mainline Methodists and then the splinter groups of Wesleyans and Holiness that are puritanical and almost Pentecostal, This is a bit strange.

Head covering was a moral necessity for women living in apostle Pauls time- any woman who didn't do it was thought to be a loose woman- Paul couldn't have that in the church else the community, although pagan, would have been either scandalised or of the opinion that the morals of Christians were the same as theirs- a cultural thing then and and no longer so please learn how to interpret the Bible correctly - of course some folk get a real kick out of legalism!

Wow way to away every ladder....

Practically living Puritans.

FP funerals barely mention the person who's died. There's almost no acknowledgement of the life that God gave to that person. Instead, a sermon is preached which could be preached at any other time day of the year. The over riding theme of FPs seems to be fear and judgment, with little love and compassion shown at all. The Christian life is one of balance (fear of the Lord AND love). Reflecting Christ in all things.

Yeah, no one needs Christmas.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

I find most of it incredibly depressing.

Sound cultish to me Sunday is not the sabbath Saturday is

@esserman1603

8 ай бұрын

It is literally Sunday, which is the first day of the week!

@abrahamsmith7336

8 ай бұрын

Show me one place in the scriptures only one where it’s changed from Saturday to Sunday one thing I know gods word cannot be changed by man

Making Sunday a new Sabbath is going beyond Scripture, so yeah, it’s a legalistic sect, unfortunately. The Sabbath is forever the Seventh Day (Saturday), but it’s not enjoined on the Church to follow a Covenant made for Jews. Those who think Sunday is the new Sabbath don’t realize they believe in two Sabbath Days - the Jewish Sabbath mentioned in Acts 17:1,2 and another one on Sunday.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

All the days were thrown out of kilter by the changeover to Gregorian. For some people, by the way, Monday is the first day of the week. It all depends who you ask.

@zarnoffa

2 жыл бұрын

@@thursoberwick1948 I’m pretty sure only the dates changed. For example, it went from October 4 to October 15 overnight, but it was still Thursday (Oct 4) and Friday (Oct 15).

@innovationhq8230

2 жыл бұрын

Seventh dayers are heretics. God changed sabbath to the first day of the week.

@zarnoffa

2 жыл бұрын

@@innovationhq8230 No, He didn’t change the Sabbath to the first day of the week… otherwise Paul, who was a Jew, would have two rest days… since he was still observing the Jewish Sabbath. I don’t know how illiterate these church leaders who came up with Sunday as Sabbath have to be to not know these simple facts. It’s rather disturbing, honestly. The Sabbath as Saturday still stands, but the Church is not under the Jewish Law. We are to rest from our works TODAY and enter His rest by faith. Go read Hebrews 3 where this is made very clear. Sunday is not a new Sabbath and Saturday is for Jews only.

@Nusrich_06

8 ай бұрын

I suppose, then with the Sabbath being amongst the Ten Commandments, it should be interpreted "in the spirit" as Christ described in the Sermon on the Mount? Perhaps, we should always try to be in a state of "spiritual Sabbath", wherein our souls are at constant rest in the Lord, even if our bodies may not be.

'Relatively unknown denomination today'..?? To who?? This is a well known denomination for Presbyterians in the UK...

@jic1

Ай бұрын

Hence "relatively".

>claims to be "strict" >claims works don't matter, all sins are equal, and salvation can never be lost once you're "born again" even if you commit mortal sins afterward (in fact according to them there's apparently no such thing as a mortal sin since all sins are supposedly equal) Pick one Protestants. What's the point of your 33,000 denominations (each claiming to be the one true church) having "rules" if there's no real punishment for breaking them.

@SpncrHrrs

2 жыл бұрын

We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone, as revealed in the scriptures alone, to the glory of God alone.

@sorenpx

2 жыл бұрын

Protestant doctrine has never stated that "works don't matter," only that we are not saved by works.

@thursoberwick1948

2 жыл бұрын

You don't need to. If you are saved by grace, you will provide good fruits.

@jamesbhollingsworth5452

2 жыл бұрын

I’m thankful he saved my soul from Hell for free. Therefore I serve him.

@Mic1904

2 жыл бұрын

>makes wild claims about Protestantism that betray a lack of even the most basic understanding of the position he's criticising >thinks this is legitimate grounds upon which to demand answers of Protestants Pick one or the other, Alexander. These aren't going to work together.

This just seems rather idolatrous.

The KJV version of God's Holy Word teaches that Sabbath is the 7th day, not the first day (Sunday). It is written, thus Sayeth the Lord and Amen. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Also mentioned in Heb 4:4 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Genesis 2: 2-3. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11

@Viscount_Castlereagh

2 жыл бұрын

In the Gregorian calendar Sunday is the seventh day.

@lighthouse-news

2 жыл бұрын

@@Viscount_Castlereagh Hello, how are you. Calenders change, but not God's Holy Word. Malachi 3:6, Heb 13:8 Please prove which day is Sabbath from God's Holy Word, ie, (Shabat). Don't forget, after the death of lovely Jesus Christ, His disciples rested according to the Commandment, Shabat-Sabbath ie the 4th Commandment of Ex 20:8-11. Heb 4;4-5. We know this because God blessed, hallowed and rested upon the Seventh day after creation. Gen 2;2-3. And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Mark 2:27-28 He commended Abraham for keeping His Commandments, Gen 26:5 and reaffirmed the Commandments at Sinai Ex 20 and gave Ceremonial Laws of sacrifice and offerings to Moses because hundreds of years in Egypt had diminished the solemnity and holiness of God's truth for the Jews. These ceremonial laws of Moses were abolished at the cross, not the Ten Holy Commandments etched in stone, God Forbid. Also Jesus was called from the grave upon the first day of the week, now known as Sunday and mistakenly kept by the vast majority of the Christian economy. Especially Papal Rome, AKA Vaticanus .Constantine, AD 321 Also, women and head coverings. I don't mind the custom as a personal choice, it is very chaste and comely, but please carefully and prayerfully read God's solution, not mans. But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. 1 Corinthians 11:15-16. If one professes to be a servant of the most High God then obey His word, not customs of man.

Get rid of "infant baptism", be in better shape.

@mkshffr4936

2 жыл бұрын

As a former Baptist I would disagree. Not an issue worthy of getting out the long knives for IMO but I have come to the conclusion that covenant baptism is the correct view.

@TheOrangeGrove

2 жыл бұрын

Its better to baptise a baby I feel - just couldn't make an oath to the Church itself.

@valeriebalzan7619

2 ай бұрын

Baby baptism was practiced straight away in the early church- read the Didache- a baby cannott do or say anything to save themselves so that's perfect grace- when Jesus went about preaching repentance He was preaching to adults who would go home and preach to their families- well obv were supposed to!