Hey Nilaus, according to the patch notes the metadata isn't one time highscore forever. it's per 'cluster address' which is defined as [seed+number of stars+resource multiplier], so if you start a new game with any of those differently then the science/min averaged over an hour should add to the total again. ONLY when you have multiple saves on the same 'cluster address' does it only count the highest of those. So unless it's bugged and not working as intended, the feature is actually a lot more flexible than it appears. Also people shouldn't be able to use your savegame to get metadata, they specifically mentioned that it's not possible to do that in the patch notes, they didn't go into specifics though.

@jbf81tb

2 жыл бұрын

If I understand, this means you have to do at least one playthrough from scratch per cluster. I'm not sure I understand the design logic behind this choice. Let's imagine that two clusters could be as different as, to use Factorio as an example, a Death World with low-resources VS a no-biters, high resources map setting. I can imagine someone saying, "You shouldn't be able to use your work from the easy playthrough to cheat on the hard playthrough." My rebuttal to this is: 1) I don't think DSP clusters are anywhere near that different, and 2) this is a single player game. Who cares if someone wants to take a benefit from the easy playthrough into the hard playthrough? (I'm not saying you're arguing this or defending the current implementation. I'm just using this comment to continue the argument that the current implementation doesn't make much sense.)

@SmokeJam

2 жыл бұрын

@@jbf81tb You can spend previously aquired Meta-Data on the new cluster though and then regenerate it playing it. So if you play through the game multiple times and always start with a random new seed, you will continuosily build up Metadata. It is difficult to put in words and probably led to misunderstanding, they just dont want you to run the same seed speedrun like over and over to farm up on the Data. It encourages using random generated seeds and not just one.

@mattbrassfield2291

Жыл бұрын

@@SmokeJam i really like this implement means you can save up allot of meta and go for a Speed Run.

Apart from the thing that Nilaus was criticizing, this metadata seems like a huge opportunity for the beginner phase. I mean, you could almost start straight from flight technology, go to your titanium planet, and begin building with logistics stations. No more spaghetti starts!

@KeimpeJ

Жыл бұрын

I like my spaghetti

@mattbrassfield2291

Жыл бұрын

if only this was implimented into other games like satisfactory... Hard Press for Drones. ___ drones only

@JasonEllingsworth

11 ай бұрын

@@mattbrassfield2291 Drones are mostly a gimmick in satisfactory. Trains are where it's at.

@unpackedwolf5557

11 ай бұрын

@@JasonEllingsworth The problem with trains is that it's hard to setup a proper network. Drones are much simpler but they are late game and have alot of limitations.

@JasonEllingsworth

11 ай бұрын

@unpackedwolf5557 i found them to be incredibly simple. I just used one train on one line, and never made them tee off or anything like that. Each box car can have a different item so it's easy to move materials from one modular factory to another. Typically only used them to move bauxite, sulfur, etc and moved items to a central storage for redistribution. Drones are just a massive pain because you also need to fuel them with batteries. They would have been way better if they charged from the grid like in DSP

I think a simple solution to this would be: If you use metadata to unlock a piece of research, then that piece of research can always be unlocked for free in any save game. The point of this is obviously to speed up future playthroughs. Disabling achievements is sufficient punishment. I agree it makes no sense that it can only be done once. You could maybe say that "buy once, free forever" is too generous, then maybe the price halves every additional time you buy it. But regardless, this is a single-player game, I don't see anything wrong with being overly generous with a NG+ feature.

@JakeHolt39

2 жыл бұрын

I like this idea, maybe you do it like Veins Utilization Research, where you're slowly knocking off a percentage of the total cost to research that thing.

@netneo4038

2 жыл бұрын

They already have a solution to this, nilaus either missed it or its not working as intended, but the science is counted per cluster address, which means that as long as you start new games with a different setting (either seed, number of planets or resource multiplier) you can get more metadata again from scratch. Just that metadata from the same cluster address (so exactly the same settings seed+number of stars+resource multiplier) means only the highest of those counts.

@adamrowell1588

2 жыл бұрын

@@netneo4038 Nilaus's complaint isn't that he only gets one shot at acquiring metadata, it's that he can spend it in a save, decide he doesn't like the save, and it's gone forever.

@netneo4038

2 жыл бұрын

@@adamrowell1588 No no, he specifically mentions that 'you can NEVER do it again'. 'unless you build an EVEN BIGGER base'. Which is simply not true. you can build a smaller base and still get metadata back (maybe not more than you spend, but that's up to you to spend it correctly). But in his understanding from the video it's the highest obtained per minute across all saves. Which is why the consumption of the metadata would be so devastating if used incorrectly. That's also why he mentions 'it is implied that you play the game once, and then ONLY once more'. due to the misunderstanding that in that second playthrough you would earn 0 new metadata if your factory is smaller than the one you build previously, which is wrong (unless same cluster address but thats very easily avoided). Essentially if you don't delete savegames immediately after spending all of your metadata you should always have new metadata to use in new savegames, regardless of how big you build in your previous game. Build bigger, get more points back into your 'bank' build small and maybe you get less than you've used but you still get points nonetheless.

@rashkavar

Жыл бұрын

It is worth noting that as of that patch, there are only 5 achievements that are disabled when using metadata, and that the ingame list indicates which those are. I know some of them are the speedrun challenges - Didn't Break a Sweat and Mission Impossible for a sub-25 and sub-10 hour time to completion and One Giant Leap for Mankind for landing on a second planet within an hour of starting. (Since the ability to just amass an ungodly amount of metadata and just metadata your way to instant victory is theoretically possible otherwise). Not sure what the other two are, but they are probably similarly broad challenges that metadata would fundamentally break. So unless you're going for some of those more demanding challenges which kinda require you to plan your entire run around, you're not locking yourself out of anything at all.

Thank you for your service and your sacrifice.

Hi, I feel like there is a misunderstanding in the patchnotes (after limited testings on my own saves before completely wiping them and a fresh start): You can aquire Meta-Data once per seed, means as long as you have saves with different seeds (or rather cluster), they will keep adding to your overall Meta-Data everytime you have them open. Only consecutive saves with the same exact cluster dont produce more Meta-Data. To come to the point: You shouldn't talk about "wasting" Meta-Data. They just dont want to make it an "easy" hack in a way, you shouldn't be able to run the same seed+settings over and over again and farm up on those as it is meant as a jump-start boost for new cluster you are starting. So as long as you start new games with a randomized new cluster, you will earn Meta-Data again. In other words: You can earn Meta-Data only once per seed and settings combination, but on every of those cluster. That is exactly what it is intended for, not boosting your already existing saves and seeds, but new ones, which in turn add to your global count again. Have a few of these new runs and you are swimming in Meta-Data you never have to worry about research again as long as you dont replay the same seeds and settings.

@TheGoodMorty

2 жыл бұрын

Ok so this is to keep it from adding together multiple saves of the same world, like if you just re-save the same thing with multiple names, it won't multiply your metadata? That would make sense.

@SmokeJam

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheGoodMorty exactly. Only the save with the highest Hash per minute from that cluster would add to your Meta-Data. If you start a new game with the same seed, but e.g. 0,5x Resources, you could accumulate Meta-Data on that one too. Just simply not the same combination of seed number, star count and resource setting and you get new Meta-Data. As long as one of those 3 is different, you are good.

@HelicopterShark

7 ай бұрын

Pin this comment because it explains why it is the case. Generation is based on highest save per cluster, each cluster has its own negative balance of meta data spent to go against your generation. Sucks for spam running a seed but hey it's a luxury not a core mechanic

hey finding northpole on a planet you can watch the "mini-map planet" in the downleft corner for navigation. no need to turn on grid building mode :)

Thank you Nilaus! I was so looking forward to your take on this, glad to hear it

Just want to say I love that you added that I am the tutorial bit! I have been watching you since your very first lets play on Dyson Sphere, and your second one, and I am just about to get back into the game and decided to refresh my memory how to play and I remember when you originally said that! Your awesome my dude! Keep up the good work!

My understanding from the patch notes was that each different 'galaxy' you play in also contributes to your metadata? So if you are starting a new game in a different galaxy (also with 50% resources), and build up to the same size of base, your total will have gone up to 6.5k from first base + 6.5k from the new base (minus the amount you spend to kick-start the new base). So as long as you don't abandon a new game in the early stages, you could essentially keep building this metadata up from new game to new game, not just once. In theory, if you open up the save files from some of your previous series, you should get a massive amount of metadata no?

@Zivers

2 жыл бұрын

No, the old saves of my own walkthroughs did not fit, it says that they were created by another player. Despite the fact that the versions of the game were not old, 0.8 and higher

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the amount of metadata you get in total from a save is the highest rate of science production over one hour that you reach, BUT it doesn’t fall after that (if, for example, you stop researching anything and thus stop producing science). If that’s the case, can one game the system by spiking production? Stockpile a lot of resources for science cubes. Like, a LOT a lot. Once the stockpiles are full, dump them into a huge array of energy matrices, and produce them like mad for an hour. You should then be able to get more metadata than you could reasonably need for your next few saves (if your goal is just to skip early-game grind and spaghetti).

Geez, thank for the info, was self debating either start a new seed or keep pushing the one i'm running, now i guess i'll keep the push, up to 20k points atm and was not sure how it would effect my next game

the metadata looks like the Legacy feature you see on clicker time waster games like cookie clicker and clicker heroes but normally those would unlock bonuses like faster resource gain, and it snowballs with each new game you get stronger and stronger

What would make sense is to track the metadata utilisation in the any given save game and make sure it doesn't exceed the metadata limit. It even seems like it supposed to work that way, since it tracks how much of it is realized

I honestly have been ignoring the metadata, gaining the science and achieving the research goals i feel is an integral part of the game and the metadata buyout is kind of unessesary. I hope you show the new dyson sphere customization, its really wonderful.

So if i use them and i build another base those points will grow back? Thats awesome

There was some FAQ on the notice that says you cant use other people's save datas to get metadata.

I think you're exaggerating the "once you spend it, it's gone". You make it sound like you'll never get any more metadata ever, which isn't the case. This is simply currency, accessible globally across all your games. And by making more matrices, you're adding to your global wallet, to be spent anywhere.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I was completely lost when it came to the new "meta-data" mechanic. Now I'm not. Thanks again.

I did some testing... There is a new file which tracks spent metadata. If you delete the file you can spend your Metadata again. Go To: "[My Documents]/Dyson Sphere Program/Property" and delete the file. Just Reload your Nilaus savegame to regenerate the file and spent the stuff again. It will not work in the savegame, because your savegames individually track spent metadata. This trick only resets the global counter so you can use it in another savegame. I have not tesed what happens if you overspend in two savegames and reload both without resetting the global counter... might be a problem, but i don't know.

@AlessandroRodriguez

2 жыл бұрын

Lets do SCIENCE!!

It's not so much "play the game twice" as it is "transfer progress from previous save". Example, you make a new game and you can now use those 7k metadata on that save and play it up to 7k or more metadata... and then the next time you play, you'll have the leftover of your old save plus what you have in the new save... It's a bit weird, yes... but it is what it is... Also, importing saves from other people should not give you anything the devs said :)

"I am the tutorial". Take my upvote!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

But I’ve used metadata multiple times?? I think he’s confused 🤔

It says on the Q&A for the patch notes that you can't use someone else's save game for metadata, has anyone tested that?

@crazymammoth

2 жыл бұрын

bet you'd have to open the save and edit the user profile to bypass, not sure why this would upset the Devs as the game turns off achievements if you choose to use the feature

@darthrado

2 жыл бұрын

@@crazymammoth They only turn off the speed run achievements so that you can earn those on merit and not cheese them

@sintaxera

2 жыл бұрын

If not sounds like a good idea for a mod :P

if you produce 5k blue science per minute, you have 5k blue metadata. if you start a new game and spend 500, you're at 4.5k. you make back what you spent if you produce 500 blue on that save per minute for an hour. it sounds like you were saying you needed to produce more than 5k per minute on that new game to add any metadata. also, if you play 1 game at a time and in every game before this update your goal is always to build 60/sec, then now when you start over you have 3600 science to spend. so, in that new game you spend all the metadata, then you build up to 60/second, which was always your goal and what you would have done anyway before this update, when you start over again you have 3600 science to spend. edit: turns of that is what you're saying. 8:15 "build a base that gets up to 1k science and you can use that to start the next base, and the next base can get up to 2k, and you can use the excess 1k on the next" when the second base produces 2k, then the third game has 2k. if you start a game and produce 1k, you have 1k available on the second game. if you start the second game and produce 1k without spending any, the third game has 2k. 10 save games that all produce 60/science per minute, means you have 36,000 of each meta data. you can spend 3,600 on each of those games, or 32,400 on one of those 10 games (since you cant spend the metadata on the same game that produced it) or start an 11th game and spend 36,000 on that one. if you spend all 36,000 on that 11th, then produce science at 30/second, your 12th game has 1800 metadata available

instantly recognized that voice from factorio.

It is not a single save game. I loaded ~10 different games and it increased each time. But, I do not see the point. Research is never critical path for me; it is building stuff.

Complete game uninstall, reinstall and apply the uber Save Game?

METADATA CAN BE RESET.. Deleting the file in the directory "%userprofile%\Documents\Dyson Sphere Program\Property" works. You could save a backup just in case though. I confirmed that this works to remove all Meta data information. This does mean that I need to go into a game to reset the mata data information

@Tylorean

6 ай бұрын

Could you possibly edit this file?

Isnt your metadata raised by your all save games?

I just tested it by uninstalling and re-isntalling. It did not reset my metadata so that means they are storing the stats behind the scenes on the cloud Steam. So yea, this is irrevocable. Steam allows game devs to have "behind the scenes" stats that arent able to be set by the owner. I was hoping there was some sort of config file. I confirmed that the files were deleted. It also does not look like anything is set in the registry. Sadface.

@andrewoconnell90

2 жыл бұрын

is there a way to try it in offline . not connected to steam

@chemie7037

2 жыл бұрын

uninstall just did not remove the right file. There is a reddit post that outlines which file to delete. Pretty easy actually.

@jimdiroffii

2 жыл бұрын

Are you sure you "deleted everything"? A lot of uninstalled programs leave stuff behind in appdata and programdata, and only remove the application from Program Files, or wherever your steam library is.

@dracconis69

2 жыл бұрын

The file is located in your Documents folder which is a folder most people dont think a game will store any of its data

@NicholasOrlowski

2 жыл бұрын

@@dracconis69 Thanks, I hadn't checked in documents

Got 15000 from my last game and 10k from previous one. I'm sitting on 25k of each science... neat!

My takeaway from this is to not use metadata at all, just keep it and think of it as a statistic of your biggest career.

I had 60, I'm new to the game, so I do a new save to try the feature (of course before I watch the video) and yeah I can delete the save game any time I want and nothing bad will happen, right? RIGTH? wrong. 10 meta data lost and I actually deleted the save game xD so basically lost 10 for no reason.

If I spend let's say 1000 red science can I go back to a save and delete all stored up red cubes and re earn those red cubes

@alexpena4091

2 жыл бұрын

So that when I go back to the new game I'll have more reds to spend

@CatalepticHunter

2 жыл бұрын

A save file's score isn't the number of produced or accumulated cubes, it's the _rate_ you're producing them (per hour). It's basically a game mechanic to reward mega-factories and add something like New Game+ IMO though they should track the total earned (for any given seed, so that multiple saves from the same game don't stack up) and the total spent (again, against the seed), and if you delete all saves from a game where you spent metadata, you get it back.

@hidden4003

2 жыл бұрын

@@CatalepticHunter They did exactly that, it says in patch notes that metadata is tied to a "cluster address" which includes the seed. The “cluster address” is the [Cluster Seed+Number of Stars+Resource Multiplier] set by the engineer at the beginning of the game.

@STEVEC66

2 жыл бұрын

@@hidden4003 Does that mean somone might nick Nilaus' metadata pile if they use his savegame? Gulp! 😄

@hidden4003

2 жыл бұрын

@@STEVEC66 Everything is local to your machine so no.

why is x0.5 resource such a big deal?

You missed main point: skipping the very early research phase. Which is often a slog.

Too late, I already wasted most of mine experimenting

I was wondering about this.... hope they fix it, as system is just bad.

"I am the tutorial" HAHA

So what if the metadata can be used once? To get it you need to already beat the game without using any metadata, so it is just a bonus thing that should not effect normal gameplay at all.

@paulohsa22

2 жыл бұрын

The thought process behind metadata is that it was supposed to solve a problem some players have, in which they like starting multiple new games but the early game always feel too slow after your first couple of saves. If you can only use it once, the feature is kind of pointless, since it really only solves this problem once, and by definition it is a problem for players that like to begin multiple new saves. Sure, it's nice to have for your second playthrough, but then you just created a gameplay curve which goes "slow start -> fast start -> slow start forever again". It would be even nicer if the Ammount was always constant throughout all games, and there was a "Current Game Available", that would be the Ammount minus the "Current Game Realization".

why is x0.5 resource such a big deal? Once you reach certain technology level, with infinite research of Veins utilization, you're effectively in x(infinity) resources.

@1220THEMAN

2 жыл бұрын

Might make oil resources slower early on?

@eitantal726

2 жыл бұрын

@@1220THEMAN eh. not really. just build another oil rig. In my experience, I only tapped into less than 1/5 of the resources of a planet. I'll do x0.5 play-through next, and maybe prove myself wrong.

They should change this metadata to be counted as max performance of your best system and be fully available in any new game. And also they should not divide metadata by resource multiplier.

My biggest complaint about this system is how unnecessary it is. There are mods (admittedly clunky) that give you New Game+ experience if you wanted it. I can't help but feel that the development time would have been better used on things no one else but the developers could do. That being said, @Nilaus, I think you've got the completely opposite impression of the system to what it should be. You think about "losing" the progress because you've finished the game and got a large stockpile of science already. But imagine doing it from the other end - you've started your playthrough, found out that something is not working, you've run out of resources before warp tech, or your base turned into a pile of noodles, etc. And all that happens after 10-20-30 hours of playtime. Some people would get frustrated with the game and leave. Others, will see the metadata tool, "pack up" as much of science they could manage, and start over, rapidly getting to the research levels they had before, but with new seed/settings/resources on their home planet/system to get further and cleaner than they did before without spending a ton of time on it. It's an excellent tool for newbies or people who don't use a spreadsheet to have fun.

Thank you Nilaus, i was thinking about experimenting with it, now i don't need to. I really don't like this system, treating science like a currency.

The New Game+ Mod > DSP Vanilla

This shit is so unnecessarily convoluted, lmao. What a useless system...

I am curious why my comment was deleted from this video?

Sounds like a "upgrade" that nobody but the devs think is cool. It isn't a good addition to the play. Did you try uninstalling the game, and reinstalling it?

This whole thing is kind of dumb. Why would you want to skip a bunch of the game anyway

@laml545

2 жыл бұрын

When you've already played 100h, the start of a new game is very slow and sluggish, and it takes quite a while for it to feel smoother again once you start getting some upgrades

@jimdiroffii

2 жыл бұрын

Replayability. For someone who has been through the game multiple times, it’s like skipping a tutorial. Play the part of the game you want to play. It’s just Options for the player, and It’s completely optional. In many ways, DSP truly doesn’t start until you finish the quest, because that’s about the time when you can really start taking over the cluster. There are a lot of reasons. Sure beats a loot box.

@CatalepticHunter

2 жыл бұрын

Metadata isn't really there for people whose end goal is to build one dyson sphere. DSP is like Factorio in that for some players, getting to white science is really just brief preamble to the fun part... metadata is for them.

Thanks for ruining your saves for us Nilaus!

thanks for the vid man definitely going to skip the meta data and just do the science