Why is the introductory piece to camera audio track in mono?

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Sorry, editing mistake. Was using a different software this time. You can still enjoy the video using speakers, or by turning on 'mono audio' in your device settings.

@francois7

10 ай бұрын

I was wondering the same thing 🤣

@organbuilder272

Ай бұрын

Because there was only one microphone used. What does it matter to you. The introductory piece is just that and nothing more. Pay attention to the performance instead of the distraction.

Allen has done a great job in many installations.

Hi Titus, as a amateur organist I’m in no position to question the opinion of a professional organist like you. Nevertheless I think you take a interesting stance on the subject. I live in a country with beautiful historical pipe organs around every corner. I don’t know any church with a digital instrument. If they can’t afford a “serious” pipe organ than they often choose for a chest organ instead of a digital variant. As you might know, most of my own performances on my channel are played with Hauptwerk. I am amazed with the possibility of virtual traveling to different countries and era’s. But it never can replace a real pipe organ. And I never shall call my custom made console, an organ. Because it isn’t. For me a pipe organ is much more than sound. It’s craftmanship. It’s a living breathing instrument, with a “personality” that behaves different in any season, in any temperature, with every performer in any circumstance. It’s a piece of art, made of wood and metal. And some of them are living for centuries without losing their voice. I’m very happy with my fantastic Hauptwerk console and state of the art sample sets. But sitting on the bench from a pipe organ, in its natural environment, goes beyond music. It’s love.

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Thanks Rien! It's great that we all have differing opinions on this subject, and can share them with each other. Pipe organs certainly are a craft. I do think there could be a craft to making digital instruments too, and I have seen some people attempt it. I would certainly like to see more experimentation in that space, blending real samples with digital effects for truly awe-inspiring instruments. There is, naturally, a historical element to pipe organs too that cannot be ignored. I acknowledge that. We must preserve the past as well as creating something new.

Great video. I feel like the Hauptwerk age has helped some of the anti-digital organ mentality. As I play on an Allen every Sunday, and as it’s the only instrument I have access to, I do my best to make it sound as “real” as possible. Beautiful playing! 🎶

An excellent pronouncement, Titus. I have played electronic instruments which work just fine. Fortunately, I also get to play all three pipe organs for services each weekend in my small city. The Bach selection is a favorite. Thank you!

My late mom's favorite church organ selection. And coincidentally, her maiden name was Allan, Scottish style with an "a", not an "e". Nicely done. Thanks, Titus.

Congratulations on your approach to "organs". Like you I like ALL organs be they be Pipe Organs, Electronic Organs or Sample based (Hauptwerk etc). I would have loved to learn the "organ". I did up to grade 7 in piano but I really loved the sound of the organ. I can remember as a very small child being taken occasionally to Mary Immaculate Church in Manly. There was a pipe organ at the rear of the church and I as a small child was fascinated by its sound. In later school days I spent time in many churches with Harmoniums, Real Organs and even a Hammond organ. I liked them all. I now have a Hauptwerk setup with three manuals and pedals and a number of organ samples. I live near Canberra but in NSW. If you are down this way, I'd be honoured if you would like to play my setup. Cheers and keep up the good work. Mike

Thank you Titus and Kim for helping to encourage at least some people to appreciate and accept organ music in Australia - while accepting that not every situation is capable physically or financially of supporting an authentic pipe organ. The sample sets carefully crafted by Rodgers, Allen, Hauptwerk and others are to most ears perfectly acceptable in the environments they're installed in.

I could certainly hear a slight difference in the sound at first, but it sounds beautiful regardless.

I’m just not convinced by the sound of Allen organs. I have degrees in music in organ and voice, and Allen always sounds algorithmic and 2-dimensional to me. I’m not opposed at all to digital organs. Now, as you say, and my organ professors always said- The room is the most important stop. You’re playing in a great room, and that Allen sounds much better because of it. It’s obviously a good installation. The best digital organs IMO are Phoenix from Peterborough, CA, and Walker (great, insanely expensive). We have a 6 year old Allen at the organ where I am full-time that my predecessor chose, and it’s an unfortunate installation. But to me, you can never beat a real pipe organ as far as sound. Great video!

You touch on several important things in your introduction. 1) the room is usually the most important 'stop' on the organ 2) pipe is not always better than electronic/digital/virtual 3) it matters that the organ be in-tune and reliably available, so a church needs to have an on-going budget for that if they have a pipe organ. There's nothing more depressing than a wheezy old out of tune pipe organ with many missing stops. I've encountered them in rural America. 4) [implied by your excellent playing] what matters is how well the organ is used to inspire worship 5) even this relatively modest Allen will be recognized as "a church organ" by visitors and congregants, and be appreciated as such; many may not even know or care whether it has actual pipes or not

@organbuilder272

Ай бұрын

He lays one simple piece by bach and you judge his playing by his accent. Your #3 is interesting. The congregation built the church and ordered the real thing be installed. Changing demographics and possibly lack of technicians and money for upkepo - the organ is the most valuable asset after the building and the least cared for - after years of willful neglect it is out of tune and wheezy. What would a piano or any instrument be like after years of neglect. You guys with your noses stuck up your ass are laughable. I work every day to RESTORE organs that have been abandoned in shuttered buildings or from water and vandalism damage. Try wetting an Allen organ and see what happens. None of it will survive but the structure of a pipe organ and the pipes withing will remain usable If the organ is properly restored. With electronic junk - you replace the entire machine. You snot nosed jonney -come-lately key pushers who can't play a recital from memory, and couldn't play a decent recital in any case, should remember - you can play batches of bach on a single keyboard with one set of pipes. You can't play real music though. That takes a pipe organ and the sound of individual pipes playing each note from a different location into a resonant building. You can ALWAYS tell an electronic playback machine - It can not reproduce the sound of an organ accurately. NEVER begause the sound is NOT generated in the same way pipe organs do it. Simple physical fact that no one can dispute (Other than sophomores like this one.) Get off your ivory tower, kid. I'll take Paul Fey or Mr. Brown any day. They play real music..... like the old school organists who knew how to play wheezy, out of tune organs and do it up in fine style. Fred Swann, E.Power Biggs, Alexander Schreiner, Richard Elsassar, George Faxon, Arthur Howes, Edwin Lamare. Paul Fey, Andy Brown. You crop of lazy, fussy, petulant key pushers wouldn't know a good organ if it fell on you. What you need is an UP DOWN button - 256 levels of memory, a spotlight and a book of excuses defining why you couldn't play your baroquen music properly. You can't even turn your own pages. Yeah, Three manual consoles with Prinzipal 8, 4, 2 and twenty ranks of mixtures and ten more ranks of Cornet's on each manual, a 16' Bourdon in the Pedal and you are on you way. Gotta have that Prinzipal or it wont sound correct. Diapasons will not do at all. Heaven forbid there should be a 2-2/3' anywhere in the organ but you have to have that 1-3/5 and a Krummy Horn on the Positiv (Must be unexpressive on 1" of wind (Feather column)) Another Cameron Carpenter. Remenber, Boy, A bad organist blames the instrument. A bad organist will make a good organ sound badly. A good organist (which you are not) will make a bad organ sound good (Which you can not) I will give you some credit - Allen is, by far, the best of that form of reproductive equipment. I have a question - Why didn't you perform your demonstration by playing, Widor's Fifth symphony, all of it. Or Francks 3rd Choral, or Grand Piece symphonic or Vierne's Carillon or first symphony. or a real simple one - The Lost Chord. You didn't because it would sound like .... (can't use that word) and you probably could not play it anyway. You pick a practice piece like that to demonstrate how glorious an electronic playback machine is???? Oh yes, it your dissertation on practice... Tell your tale to Alexander Malofeev. He'd play rings around you. What's the best way to get to Carnegie Hall - Practice, Practice, Practice. So much for your pompous attitude.

I have the same organ. Allen Q320E. Love it!

It depends on context. I swerve towards a real pipe organ, but a good digital would beat a bad or unsuitable pipe organ. If a church has a well used and loved, quality digital then that is far superior to a situation where a pipe organ is ignored and overlooked, for example in favour of a praise band or something

@organbuilder272

Ай бұрын

The cost of the electronic would have paid for the upkeep of the pipe organ. This praise band nonsense is just a cheap way out and ends with a replacement as they go obsolete or fail.

What matters is there is AN organ. AN organ is 100% better than no organ!

Looks like a Protégé L-321. We have one at the Bethel Methodist Church on Anguilla in the Caribbean, but I don't think it's set up very well because it definitely doesnt sound like this. The acoustic of this church in the video is very good. Thanks for the video 👍🏾

I understand what you were trying to convey, I am neither a purist of for that matter a brilliant organist, but I will say that musicianship is very important. I have heard many a "real" organ with problems ,played by professionals that can still know just how much or how far they can go with the instrument that works. And play an entire concert with very pleasing results. As an electronics tech I also enjoy the world of the digital organ. Certainly the environment of a good natural acoustics makes it easier to emulate a pipe organ. Sometimes an electronics that is well set up is going to be better in some instances then the installed pipe organ it may replace. My own church has an instrument that is getting very tired and truly is nothing special, replacing it with an electronic is certainly an option. This would allow us to open the music repertoire more effectively and everything would work. Not to mention Hauptwerk would make for even more exciting options. Unfortunately very few people really understand just how much it costs to maintain a pipe organ in fully working order. I am yet to play an electronic that has blown me away, but I suspect this is more to do with the installation not being great. Would be glad to know of any really great installs ins Australia that I could go and listen to and play. Hey the world of organsis an exciting journey !

I play on a new Rodgers at my church, and it is honestly pretty nice. I’ve also heard a 4m Walker that was utterly convincing (it was very finely voiced, and in a nice room that did it many favors, but I was always thrilled whenever I was asked to play it). The fact is that the newest generation of these instruments are actually quite good. Yes, the real deal is “better”as a general rule, but it’s also fair to say that a nice digital is often better than a poor pipe instrument.

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Agreed!

@aBachwardsfellow

10 ай бұрын

Also agreed!

Hello Titus, the original meaning of "organ" (organon) means nothing other than "instrument" or tool - that means it really doesn't depend on how the sounds are produced - but on WHO is able to enchant others by using this tool. It's been more than 25 years since I designed a large digital organ (III/P 103) for a wonderful church and I'm amazed that there are still such discussions (real organ vs digital) today.

It's good to see that you don't 'sit on the fence' when it comes to the issue of pipe versus digital organs, Titus (and leaving the 'purists' in this world perplexed or horrified by your views is clearly not going to give you sleepless nights!). For certain, there are many really awful pipe organs in this world (I've encountered plenty!) and there are many really excellent digital instruments (I've heard many and played a few!). I'm with you when it comes to saying what matters most is whether the instrument produces 'musical' sounds that are pleasing to the ears. Of course, not even the most sophisticated sound system consisting of amplifier and speakers can ever fully replicate the sound of hundreds of pipes speaking together as the magical way pipes influence one another sonically is quintessentially what produces the unique sound of a real pipe organ. But for most of us mere mortals, we can be easily deceived by the wonders of computer technology, whether the instrument is a sample sound organ or one where digital organ tone is being generated synthetically (as with Viscount Physis technology). Those churches (and other institutions such as universities) that can afford to install new pipe organs or renovate/maintain good existing instruments are most fortunate as good pipe organs do not come cheap (and nor do the best digital instruments, although they are not as eye-wateringly expensive as the real thing!). At the end of the day, if music in church is about enhancing worship, then the focus should be on how that is best achieved rather than on whether pipes are superior to digital approximations. I suspect that in 100 years time, there will be fewer excellent pipe organs left to play and many more digital instruments in this world that can do all that is required of them - and more besides. But the debate about what makes 'a real organ' will be with us for eternity!

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Hi Graham, thanks for your reply. You're right, real pipe organs will always possess something special that, for now, digital cannot create (until, perhaps, we build digital organs with 1 speaker for every individual pipe. Expensive, but quite attractive to me.) And we must look to the future, which will be more digital than ever. In a shrinking market for organs as it is, it will be harder and harder to maintain real instruments. Elitists will often miss the reality of the typical church organist, especially somewhere like Australia! People like the comfort and reliability of digital organs; they're ergonomic, they don't go out of tune, they don't require you to ask a congregation to pay for expensive repairs.

I am not prejudiced against digitals but I can definitely tell them from a pipe organ.

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Fair enough. I think that gap is closing, though. These days, the weakness of virtual pipe organs is not the sampled sounds they use, but their speaker systems.

@Quince828

10 ай бұрын

@@peporganagreed, most often it’s the speakers and amplifiers that let the organ down. As well it’s the sameness of them. Eg, the oboe on a smaller instrument is identical to the one on its bigger brothers. There’s no individuality such as one would hear from a pipe organ builder. It’s as if Roland/Rodgers sampled one Skinner and called it a day.

To me the definition of real organ dont necessarily mean if it has pipes or not. To me, it simply means whether the organ can generate its own sound or not. Be it the sound generated by pipes, reeds, or electronically (before digital). Digitals have come a long way, and can if properly tuned for their environment, sound nearly as good or even indistinguishable fromthe pipes their digital samples were taken from.

If you're ever in Canberra, would love for you to come and play the "not real" organ at our church - i've been told that it is in very good condition, has a good sound and our acoustics are excellent.

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Which church is that?

@jamesellis1190

10 ай бұрын

@@peporgan it’s the Yarralumla Uniting Church

I wholeheartedly agree with a lot what you're saying, Titus. While I may prefer a real pipe organ over digital/Hauptwerk any day, I have to take into account my current realities that accessing a "real" pipe organ is not always feasible in my particular case. This is why I gladly welcome the options available to us with a low-cost barrier, such as the GrandOrgue, Hauptwerk and Organteq VPOs, as well as the remarkably affordable Cantorum series of portable organs from Viscount for those who need/want to have a personal practice instrument where they can practice (and perform if they so choose to) in the comfort of their own home. If anything, technology has given us many more options and opportunities than many decades ago, so I'm very glad to have been born at this era. I'm certain I'm not alone on this, am I?

@organbuilder272

Ай бұрын

They are not low cost. Try buying a replacement PC board when one goes bad. Try repairing one that is more than 20 years old. - You have to buy a new one altogether. These playback machines are ultimately more expensive than a pipe organ that much be rebuilt every 60 to 80 years. That's what I do, restore old and ailing organs. It is a revelation to make one play again without having to replace the entire thing. Each pipe organ is a work of art, an individual instrument. It was assembled from pieces and so it can be dismantles and restored. You can't do that with these modern contraptions.

@JonnyMusicOrganist

Ай бұрын

@organbuilder272 Look, I respect your perspective on that, as I am familiar with the organ building trade and the artistry behind it. However, you cannot deny the very fact that because of the advancements in technology over the past decades, that it made organ playing MANY times more accessible than going to a church or concert hall to ask permission to play them. Am I not correct to say that?

@organbuilder272

Ай бұрын

@@JonnyMusicOrganist Hi Jonny. To have an electric organ in your house and practice, play or perform for your own amusement is one thing. By the time it fails, you will likely have done with it anyway. But to waste money of hard working parishoners on an instrument with planned obsolescence is noting short of criminal. These things may be digital copies of real pipes but as a result of the system they fail, as pipe organs do - after all, they are the largest and most complex of musical instruments, they are machines and machines need maintenance. For the organist to practice with the choir, students at home, in school or studio, fine if you remember they don't stand up, they will fail, cost a lot of $$ to repair - if that can be done at all. One lightning strike and the organ is finished. Without insurance, that 300 to 500,000 dollars. Pipe organs are not reactive to lightning. So, in many ways YOUR premise is understandable. For homes, it makes sense. Not all people dare to test domestic tranquility by spending time and money installing 50 stop organs in their home. Some do and live long enough to enjoy the result. Aeolian was the best at that effort though stupidity and lack of common sense has wiped out thousands of Aeolian organs because people like this organist didn't like the sound. They forgot the organ was no different than a piano or harp or harpsicord, just bigger, more valuable and far more satisfying. Nice to chat with you.

👍....interesting.

I'm a big fan of pipe organs, especially cinema organs. Allen's efforts in that field have been perhaps a bit less successful than with their church/classic instruments. Even their best digital cinema organs still sound electronic to my ear. I'd never confuse one with the real thing. On the other hand, Hauptwerk manages to pull it off more believably.

Nice video Titus! At the end it is about what really matters. Does the instrument sound good and can it be used for concerts and congregational singing? Personally I do like to play an historical mechanical instrument the most (it is imperfectness that makes ik great) but that is more emotional. An electric organ, when set up properly, is perfectly fit for purpose and can offer the congregation even more per €/$ than a pipe organ.

Very good sentiment towards these types of instruments. No one will say these organs sound better then a pipe organ, but many churches choose them because they cost less, don’t require maintenance, and don’t take up much space. As long as the organ is voiced well for the space it is in, it will sound great, though I might be biased there

@peporgan

4 ай бұрын

Actually, I have played a few pipe organs that sound absolutely terrible. At least digital organs have a reliable, pleasant sound, so long as again they are voiced for the building

Thank you Titus. Greetings from California. I also play an Allen organ in our small village church, and the acoustics are excellent. We have six surround-sound Allen speakers front and rear, and a subwoofer. Do you know that in Saint Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, that the Sistine Chapel Choir also uses an Allen? No Hauptwerk or computers are required, though they can be added. It's all so simple, convenient and easy. An amusing story: One Sunday after a lovely morning service, our excellent if slightly self-important choir director came up to me and told me, quite seriously and "helpfully", that "The oboe pipes are slightly out of tune". I just stared at her, a bit dumbfounded, and I had to explain to her that: 1: There are no pipes, 2: That we don't have an oboe stop, and 3: It is an electronic organ and they are unable to go out of tune. Then, to save her slightly confused looking face, and not to insult her ears nor her ego, I said: "Well perhaps I played a few wrong notes", and that seemed to satisfy her. - Cheers mate, - Matt

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Wonderful story, Matt! I had a similar story, I was playing for a funeral recently on another Allen organ, and someone asked whether the organ was out of tune.

@francois7

10 ай бұрын

Haha ! Thank you for this anecdote !

Of course, a properly sized and voiced (adjusted) digital instrument can be perfectly acceptable. The trade-offs are such as: - a pipe organ requires a room with a suitable acoustic of at least 5 seconds of reverb, whereas a digital instrument can provide a suitable degree of digital reverb. I know of several churches which have installed pipe instruments in which the organ builder insisted that the carpeting be removed; otherwise they would not accept the contract as it would cast such a poor reflection on their instrument. In many modern churches the furnishings render it nearly impossible to have any reverb whatever. I attended a concert where a lovely three-manual Flentrop was installed. The artist played impeccably, but when he released the keys after holding that last long chord, it was as if a vacuum cleaner sucked the sound out of the room. It's the first room in which I've heard a minus-3 seconds reverb. - given proper maintenance, a pipe organ may provide serviceable use for an hundred years or more last, whereas a digital instrument may expect 20 -30 years of useful service. Given advances in digital technology, the lifespan of digital instruments may now be somewhat longer. - while the experience of hundreds of pipes moving actual air in a room with 80 - 100 foot ceilings and an acoustic having 6 - 10 seconds or more of reverb cannot be matched by producing the sound through a dozen or so digital speakers, for *most* people -- given a properly sized and voiced (adjusted) digital instrument -- the results are generally acceptable for most hearers. And of course, *real* organists don't just play the organ -- they also play the room. A good organist will find a way to use the instrument to make the music "live" in the room so that what people hear is the art of the music more than the instrument. - a digital instrument can be configured to have huge tonal resources at a fraction of the cost of a pipe organ given the same resources, and does not need to be tuned. However, most people cannot tell the difference between 80% of the stops. Besides that, almost everyone is talking during the prelude and postlude and not really listening anyway, and the ones who are listening -- who really appreciate the music and the fine differences of registration -- cannot hear because of all the other people who are talking. - one primary key to the success of a digital installation is the adequacy of the speaker system -- which must compensate for the inadequacy of the room. I had rather hear a modest two-manual instrument played through a massive speaker system than a more robust instrument played through an average speaker system. I suppose that what we can conclude that there is room for both, and neither can be the other -- surprisingly, nothing particularly new. But at least it gave you something to make a post about, regenerate the same debate -- again --, and get a few clicks. PS -- in addition to Hauptwerk systems and Allen, there are Rogers, Marshall and Ogletree, Ahlborn, Viscount, Johannus. Allen is "ok" -- can get the job done, and (similar to IBM computers) is "safe". However, Allen tonal finishing seems a bit flat and lifeless when compared to some of the others -- notably Marshall and Ogletree and Johannus; check out the Johannus Monarke custom organ in the Nidaros Cathedral in Trondheim, Norway -- perhaps the best of both worlds: digital source, cathedral acoustics. By the time the cathedral acoustic blends and mixes the sound, it is truly hardly distinguishable from pipes (with apologies to Vidas ... )

Hello! Derek Kluz here, organist on catholic TV (EWTN). I only heard one mistake! Good job. And have you tried using your cornet mixture stop on the cantus firmus and perhaps a loud solo flute on the obligato? I heard the same sort of partials on both and it was less interesting to my ears. God bless!

Digital/Pipe…. What let’s many a digital/electric organ is sound separation and relative stop volume. Yes you can argue about tone, but I know many a disappointing poorly voice pipe organ.I was playing a 1985 Makin in the masonic temple at Brighton on saturday, analogue…. But the organ stop volumes are well set, the great dulciana is quite, the flute is full, the diapason is broad and stringy and masks the dulciana, the festival trumpet is louder still, rough round the edges, but it acts like a pipe organ, so very playable, the dome inside makes for a good acoustic. The other nice quirk is it has a sub and Oct coupler on the swell, and when you add the sub all the stops go down to bottom C as a 16’. Does what it needs to do and I’ve got no gripes playing it.

Can you please tell me where you got that version of Jesu Joy of Mans Desiring would like to take a close look at it, appeared to be a little light on the left hand accompaniment than I am used to. Regards

Well said, Titus! We recently had a Hauptwerk custom organ installed by Virtual Pipe Organs Australia at Our Lady of the Sacred Heart parish in Randwick. It’s a 2-manual organ with 56 stops over 4 divisions plus pedal, 2 of which are floating divisions. We are very pleased with the sound and voicing - it supports our liturgy and congregational singing very well. Would love to have you over to try it out one day!

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Great, would love to play it! VPO Australia built my home studio organ!

@organbuilder272

Ай бұрын

Sound and Voicing. It sounds like the recording it is and the voicing was the result of a good voicer working for hours in a voicing room to give the sound to pipes than these people when in and spent a couple of hours to record. Electronic machines have no voice of their own,. They are reproductions of sounds stolen from real pipe organs.

Is that a carpet I see on the floor in the choir loft? Bet that does wonders for your acoustics!

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Regretfully!

@aBachwardsfellow

10 ай бұрын

- not a problem for an Allen -- just go into the setup menu, select reverb and adjust it up a few dB

Hello Titus. May I suggest you visit Bathurst Catholic Cathedral, totally restored with the sacrament of carpet REMOVED. Do convince your P.P. to remove the carpet and improve the acoustic, your Allen would then be spectacular and your playing would be inspired. A winded pipe organ would , naturally sound better because it "breathes" , however ....better this that nothing. B.H.

As a fellow Organist/Pianist i must admit that the Pipe Organs are king in the musical world however....I personally own an ALLEN ADC-8000 digital pipe organ that has the Wings with the stop's on them and personally The sound it produces is extremely close to that of a genuine pipe organ. Honestly i have to always keep in mind that my ALLEN Digital organ is indeed just that. The acoustics, room or space, and power within the Amplifiers for the speakers make the digital organ very very capable. Now....will it ever be on the same level as a true pipe organ????well that is a question not to be answered at this point in time as we are in an age where the digital tones and nuances are getting extremely close to those of the true Pipe Organ, either way the point is to enjoy, savor, and give praise to GOD for giving humanity the ability of playing such fine instruments. Always remember...we are called to give Praise unto the LORD! so that trumps any and all debate as HE does not care about the musical instrument but how the person gives HIM praise within that instrument.

I must have missed it - which church is this? Don't seem to recognise the layout even though I'm from the same city.

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Our Lady of Dolours, Chatswood

@winneryeahmate

10 ай бұрын

That would explain it - never been 😅. Again, nicely played

Nicely registered and played! I've been serving a very small congregation for the last 8 years which has a 2-manual Allen. Very basic instrument. Only 7 general pistons, 2 memory levels, and 1 Midi stop per manual and pedal. Four years ago I persuaded the congregation to purchase a used Midi Expander that the local Allen representative was trying to clear from inventory. It was a steal at only $500.00, which, as I recall, was half of what he had quoted me two years earlier. It's been money well-spent. It contains 100 stops that can be added to the organ. Granted, only 1 stop can be added to each division at a time, but 7 sets of 3 stops (1 each for Swell, Great, & Pedal) can be set on the 7 pistons. (Unfortunately, on this instrument, they're the same on both Memory levels, unlike newer instruments.) I can also go beyond those first 7 sets by changing the sets manually on the expander itself as I play, which allows me to access 53 additional sets. Having it has allowed me to greatly expand the repertoire that can be played on this organ, as well as a terrific addition for supporting congregational singing which, in this congregation, is the primary consideration. While I'd like to have a newer and preferably 3-manual instrument, that simply is not realistic at this time, so the Midi Expander has been a satisfactory solution. Would like to know a few things: (1) What tablet and music software are you using? (2) Whose arrangement of "Jesu, Joy" did you play and where did you purchase it? Regards from San Diego, CA!

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

iPad Pro, 12.9 Inch, ForScore. Jesu Joy was from IMSLP I think, free.

@rebarnes2215

10 ай бұрын

@@peporgan Thank you!

@organbuilder272

Ай бұрын

OOohhh, Poor you. Only 7 general pistons and two memory levels. How terribly frustrated you must have been. Naturally, as an accomplished performer, you found it impossible to hand register. You know. Turn a stop on or off by actually touching it (OHHH!!!!, Heaven forbid I had to do it myself!!) You know like low grade organist like Fox, Schreiner, Biggs, Swann - the old school high'y trained and qualified organists who played 1-1/2 hour long concerts with 4 pistons and 1 layer of memory. Poor you, my heart bleeds for you.

Allen organs have been a wonderful alternative to a pipe organ for many years. There used to be discussions about whether a Hammond organ was actually an organ. Of course it’s an organ much like the American reed organ. Beautiful playing on a fine instrument!

@_g7085

10 ай бұрын

I suppose the advantage they have is that they are considered their own 'things' at this point. American Reed Organs and Hammond Organs, while both were created to be an affordable approximation of a pipe organ, are different enough that they can be treated as their own subclasses of organ. An Allen Organ however (and Hauptwerk/GrandOrgue,etc) , it attempting to be as accurate of an approximation as possible, such that you cannot really treat them as a distinct category. Its really whether or not in the use case if it matters to be a distinct, bespoke pipe organ (concerts and recordings), or if it is meant for a utilitarian situation (congregational singing).

@Modeltnick

10 ай бұрын

@@_g7085 Thanks for your response! Good explanation of these instruments. Very few churches can afford a pipe organ and there was a time when most churches and homes in America had a reed organ and later a Hammond or other early electronic instrument.

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Thanks modelt!

An organ is "real" whether or not it has pipes! It is the music that comes out rather than how it is produced that counts. A lot of that has to do with the person at the console. A good organist can make a mediocre instrunent sound great and a bad one can make a great instrument sound terrible. Listen to the sound produced by the instrument rather than the mechanism by which is it produced. This Allen sounds good and clean and would be a great instrument to have in any house of worship. Played well, too. This church is fortunat to have such a fine musicician in their employ. I personally have a 3 manual 24 rank VirTual instrument in my home and it beats the tar out of the pipe organ I once had. Mine is a theater or cinema organ.

Maybe a better question, why would a church remove a fantastic pipe organ destroying the pipes and console? They recently hired a new pastor and his preaching style includes guitars, drums, strobe lights, yelling and etc. He said that the organ was old music. He feels that J.S.Bach is in the past with old ideas. He has an opener called, "Jesus is off his cross"😢

Oh be careful, the pipe enthusiasts are going to come running with torches and pitchforks. I have held the same view as you for some time, and recently came to the conclusion that “organ enthusiasts” and “pipe enthusiasts” are not necessarily overlapping groups. I define a pipe enthusiast as someone who mainly cares about the organ having pipes, and doesn’t care very much about repertoire versatility or fitness to accompany the worship or performances in the building where it’s installed. Of course I prefer a real pipe organ when the financial infrastructure to properly maintain it exists, but I think it’s extremely narrow minded to say that it has to be pipes or nothing. Accompanying hymns on an Allen is still way better for than having to do so on a piano.

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Bravo. Completely agree. Poorly made pipe organs also do no service to the wider organ community, but rather tarnish the reputation of the instrument as something crude and antiquated. Newer Allens are reliable and solid.

A $200k instrument? Congrats on your career/appointment

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Thanks! What do you mean about the 200k?

nope

Could be worse...the church could have a praise band. Toasters have gotten better. .. I guess some people think that a saxophone on a Casio keyboard sounds as good as an actual sax

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

I suppose so! In the future, every instrument could be replaced by a keyboard with expression knobs...

@yeety1208

10 ай бұрын

you could compare it to how much AI is improving and compared with humans lol

Beautifully done. Bravo! But please don't say "real" organ when you mean "pipe" organ. The Allen Organ you are playing is just as much a "real" organ as any. While I love playing pipe organs (and they do have a bit of snob appeal if they are capable enough and wwell maintained), I would love to have an Allen Organ like that in your church to play. Digital (not "fake") organs are so capable that even experienced organists and technicians cannot always tell the difference in sound anymore (it has been proven) and digital organs have the HUGE benefit of much lower maintenance costs for the church or venue. Finally, some of the greatest organists, living and dead, played countless concerts on digital organs to much enjoyment by the audience. Virgil Fox concertized on both Rodgers and Allen organs during his lifetime. Cameron Carpenter travels with his International Touring Organ which is a digital instrument built by Marshall & Ogletree which has 5 manuals and is voiced to be a classical/concert organ or a theater organ. Diane Bish tavels with an Allen organ. The list goes on, the sounds are amazing and the listeners are quite satisified, often not even aware that they are not hearing a pipe organ.

@peporgan

5 ай бұрын

I used "real" in quotes precisely for this reason - we need to expand the meaning of what a real organ is. I do enjoy playing this Allen at my church, it sounds lovely.

@pilotusa

5 ай бұрын

@@peporgan ....but look at your title. There are no quotation marks around the word Real. I'm not sure what your point is, but I do think we are in agreement on what constitutes a real organ.

@peporgan

5 ай бұрын

@@pilotusa Video titles are meant to ask questions, not to summarise the video conclusions.

An Allen Organ IS an organ. I think a church could do so much more with the money to help people directly. 99.9% of congregants cannot hear the difference between digital and pipe organs. As long as the music touches people, the delivery system isn’t important.

@peporgan

Ай бұрын

Well said!

Virtual organs can be so well done as to be nearly indistinguishable by experts and well beyond the capacity of most listeners. The major improvements going forward are in speakers and the shaping of the acoustic environment. I have listened to and played electronic , digital and pipes in a variety of settings for decades so my opinion is far from a casual one. Pipes are an endangered species due to maintenance issues and costs that are becoming increasingly difficult to support. That said, I love Pipes but they dwell in the real world as do we all and steadily over time locations with pipe organs have diminished in number. It is a lamentable fact that many pipe organs (Theatre in particular) have spent more time in warehouses than installed and played. It is difficult to argue over the acoustics of silence because then you literally can’t hear the difference between a playing instrument and one that is out of commission - there are too many “parked” pipes.

@organbuilder272

Ай бұрын

Your premise is based on ignorance. No imitation is as good as the original and none are indistinguishable, especially by experts. The rest of your summation I would agree with but Theater organs belong in theaters, not churches so discussing that breed of highly unified, specialized pipe work is not germaine to this discussion. In the long run, electronics are - over the 400 year life of a pipe organ... maybe more, way more expensive. They can not be upgraded because of obsolescence. Pipe organs can be restored as long as they are intact.

@klavier1us

22 күн бұрын

@@organbuilder272 Assuming ignorance by presumption is a losing proposition. As it happens I am very familiar with pipe organs. I’ve heard them in person in France, Iceland, Italy and the US. I am also aware that most fans of all music gained their appreciation by hearing them - probably 90% of the time via recordings unless they themselves play pipe organs. Allen organ has performed some live comparisons and most did not hear the difference, this may go a long way toward explaining why the leading brands Allen, Rodgers, Johannus etc are all electronic. I’ve played Allen’s and the latest ones even replicate wind chest noise. I’ve had recurring access to pipe organs - and loved playing them. Samples of pipe organs do not require tuning, re-leathering, wind chests, blowers etc- all subject to mechanical and inevitable wear, tear & replacement involving countless hours of skilled and costly human intervention. Tech changes but going forward it’s likely only to get better and less costly for a long term user and improve the acoustics even further. I love pipes and respect builders - but 400 years of maintenance “ cheaper” than samples, consoles and speakers - is frankly a lovely pipe dream.

I’m sorry you have to play that electronic crap. You need to play on a pipe organ. You’ve been fooled.

@peporgan

5 ай бұрын

Hmm, how many pipe organs do you think I've played in my lifetime?

I'm not impressed. At all. This is a typical sales pitch that would be more effective selling a new dishwasher.

@peporgan

21 күн бұрын

I’m not selling anything. I just make music and have opinions to share.

Remember that these playback machines are doing just that - playing recorded sounds that were digitally recorded from the real think. The recordings are tweeked to they are in perfect physical tune and pipes back to make a sound emitted through a single point source - speakers. The weakest part is the speaker system. As far as an Allen having good sound, well it should, the sounds it makes are all stolen from real pipe organs, not other cheap imitations. By the way, when you look at these contraptions, look at the construction - Plywood, chip board with stick on paper fake wood. and a lot of circuit boards that last about 20 years and fail. The idiots who thought they were getting a bargain, with not fees for tuning, end up having to pay for new electronic components - IF THEY ARE STILL AVAILABLE. In the end young man, the real pipes organs which you seem to disparage are the source of sound for these cheap imitations that are way overpriced. Real pipe organs, with proper care last 300 to 400 years. No one really knows how long. There are organs built in 1600 still playing. So when you buy a new digital synthisiser every 20 years or so eventually you will pay less than you will for a pipe organ over the span of its life. AND you get the real thing, not a bunch pf printed circuits wrapped up on chip board and colored paper. You get the impression that I don't like fake organs. You bent on that. build the real ones and this kid is pretty pretnesious in his youthful opinions.

@peporgan

Ай бұрын

We don't have electronic organs from 1600, but if we did, I would love to compare the maintenance costs between that and a real organ from 1600. Just thinking about today, an electric organ may need servicing every 5-10 years. A pipe organ has faults more regularly than that, with much higher costs - and that's not even mentioning tuning! Perhaps some churches know not to waste their money, when the congregation often cannot tell the difference.

Titus, what you say here with authority is irresponsible and because you have a growing platform, it’s actually dangerous. As someone who dresses in the 19th century style, you should be promoting old harmoniums, not digital organs because they don’t go out of tune. I can see your opinion influenced by your past experiences which means you simply have to be exposed to more historical organs to change your mind. As Sydney Town Hall organist, get a scholarship and go to Europe to some countries where they value their pipe organ heritage. Yes we all use Hauptwerk sometimes, especially with teaching purposes or when real organs are not available like during the pandemic to use at home but only to such limited degree. Otherwise I’m all for pipe organs and harmoniums all the way. Without them you wouldn’t even have sample sets. So really, expand your musical horizons beyond your current experiences. I can’t imagine anyone with expertise in historical organs from Germany or the Netherlands arguing for digital organs.

@peporgan

10 ай бұрын

Hello Dr Vidas, you're entitled to your opinion, of course. However, you seem to not understand the context of Australia. We do not have many exceptional organs, nor do we have the resources to keep our organs in excellent condition and tune. Thus, many people are immediately turned off from organs because they hear out of tune, poorly maintained instruments. A professional pianist friend of mine once asked, "Are all organs out of tune?" I felt embarrassed - because he was right. I've travelled through Europe, I've played at Haarlem, Rouen, Groningen, Sion, Alkmaar... many famous instruments. I appreciate their historic value. However, my points still stand.

@SecretsofOrganPlaying

10 ай бұрын

@@peporgan Titus, we have an organist in Lithuania who says similar things about digital organs. As a result he sold tenths of digital organs in Lithuanian churches, even the ones which have pipe organs. These church will never have pipe organs again because of this. You seem to not understand the power of social media and a megaphone you’re having with your largest KZread organ channel in Australia. I understand that finances might be scarce in rural places in every country but we should strive to work towards a better future and not be satisfied with the current situation.

@KimGrenyer-gf6tk

10 ай бұрын

@SecretsofOrganPlaying Hi Dr. Vidas, I figured I should contribute to this discussion as the co-producer of Pep Organ. May I ask what Titus says that would be classified as "irresponsible"? He does not once say that virtual organs are superior because they never go out of tune like what you have indicated here - he simply states that organs should not be discriminated based on whether they have physical pipes or not, and if the player delivers their performance in a musical way then even the sounds of a virtual organ can be heartfelt. As far as I'm concerned, Titus is one of the most active advocates out there of the "real" organs if we're talking in that sense - he's travelled to many different churches and city halls for recordings that timelessly capture the beautiful characters of each instrument. He is also a proud owner of a historical harmonium, whose sounds earned a well-deserved place on this channel as well. Long after we're all gone, the archives of how these instruments once sounded will forever remain on these online platforms, and it is all thanks to his dedication. I sincerely believe that taking things out of context is not very fair for a productive discussion. Yes, there is beauty in historical instruments, but also in virtual organs and theatre organs. It is sad that the organist you mentioned carried out such actions, but conflating this incident with what Titus is trying to discuss is taking things a bit too far. We mean no harm to historical instruments; we simply want the audience to view virtual organs in a more open-minded way (which, regrettably, did not work out well for you).

@SecretsofOrganPlaying

10 ай бұрын

@@KimGrenyer-gf6tk I see your and Titus’s point of view of course but here’s the thing - if I (who don’t seek to replace pipe organs with digital ones) can take things out of context, so can people who do have an agenda. Plus his titles are always attention-seeking and in this case it’s quite unclear what his views are from the title. You need to click. But when you click again you are a bit confused too. I’m well aware about his reed organ (I’d love to see more of him playing this fascinating reed organ) and that Titus is an organist on probably the most important city hall organ in Australia. So it’s confusing to me watching him talk favorably about digital organs when he loves all things old. Irresponsible aren’t his views but irresponsible is using a megaphone like he has created with his channel and how people might interpret his views. Maybe a follow-up video would contribute to this discussion?

@SecretsofOrganPlaying

10 ай бұрын

@@KimGrenyer-gf6tk by the way, as co-producer have you considered appear on screen on this channel too? It would greatly spice things up.

In America the list is too long to post all of the organs here including some of the famous major organs that have digital pedal extensions such as stunning 32' flues and reeds that you'd NEVER be able to distinguish the difference between digital and pipes and in addition to pedal extensions, this sole company provides full manual divisions with again, indistinguishable digital voices and this company provides more digital extended stops than all other digital manufacturers COMBINED as they're that brilliant that it's a well known secret that many pipe organ manufacturers in America use the 32' pedal extensions in their organ builds as their customers actually request the digital stops as a means of saving money. They've had many of their fine instruments on loan to some big churches in America while the pipe organs of those churches were being restored like the former Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, California now Christ Cathedral that has a V/293 (that's five manuals and 293 ranks of pipes) Ruffatti pipe organ with a significant amount of digital stops from the company that I speak of and while their Ruffatti organ was being restored in italy, they used a four manual rental from the superb digital company that I'll name shortly. The largest church organ in America at First Congregational Church in Los Angeles is a V/349 combination E.M. Skinner and Schlicker that also has digital stops from this company as did the Washington National Cathedral organ that’s just been removed for a five year restoration and they're using a four manual digital organ with the exact stops of the pipe organ (E.M. Skinner/ Aeolian-Skinner) that’ll be restored and lastly, the largest gothic Cathedral in the world, the Cathedral Church of St John the Divine in NYC has their IV/141 E.M.Skinner/Aeolian-Skinner out being restored the last four or five years and will be reinstalled before the end of this year as I understand it, and in its place the last four or five years again has been the three manual rental to stunning results WALKER TECHNICAL ORGAN which is the brand I eluded to the hands down finest digital organ in the entire world and especially in America. Checkout most David Briggs videos and see for yourself why Walker Technical Organs reign literally supreme. Like everyone else, for me it'll always be pipe organs first, but if a church hasn't the funds nor space for a pipe organ, then having a digital or virtual organ is absolutely appropriate if not essential. Allens are awful electronic sounding rubbish, Rodgers is much much better, but NOTHING is better than a Walker in America including that utter rubbish from Europe like Johannus (we refer to it here as "your anus" as they sound like excrement). Of course listening to any organ pipe, virtual or digital wouldn't be fair to the organ if you're listening to it on your phone or laptop as they should be heard in the room in all fairness. There's also a four manual Walker Technical Organ in David Geffen Hall in the Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts in NYC where the New York City Philharmonic performs and as expected, it's gotten rave reviews. There's nothing better to my ears than a Walker Technical Organ as I recorded my CD on one to stunning results in 2006. Give that brand a listen and you'll never utter the words Allen, Johannus, Rodgers or Viscount again I promise.