Fun fact: the crossbow has the stat "Can't crit on headshots" because it used to use the huntsmens projectile before they made its own one.

@cewla3348

5 ай бұрын

you see, this also changes the sydney sleeper.

@fluoxvonhoovienheimer4706

5 ай бұрын

Finally I now know why that stat is there thank you good sir

@moho472

5 ай бұрын

​@@cewla3348Fun fact about the piss rifle, back in 2010, if you were Crit boosted, you can get proper headshots with the gun.

@Skullhawk13

5 ай бұрын

@@moho472 hell when it came out it had random crits straight up.

@uningenious

5 ай бұрын

​@@moho472You still can! If you're crit boosted via crit pumpkins, or a kritzkrieg, headshots with the sydney sleeper gain the headshot icon and kill effect.

this would actually be pretty interesting- imagine getting killed by a rescue ranger engie by a headshot from one of the bolts.

@jadenknott

5 ай бұрын

Maybe the projectile weapons could benefit from being huntsmaned that'd be an idea if he decided to start it back up Maybe that would be an overcorrection but hey

@radplung

5 ай бұрын

It would kinda make sense because the bolts are batteries and the voltage could turn off the electricity in your brain I guess

@MarcusFigueras

5 ай бұрын

​@jadenknott bison finally viable afain with headshots

@petzouqi76

5 ай бұрын

that happened a lot.

@jadenknott

5 ай бұрын

@@MarcusFigueras bison machina confirmed?

That weapon generator with headshots on a rocket launcher would finally make sense PS: it'd cool to see a mod that makes every weapon the strongest it's ever been: DR with 90 resistance, Tomislav with 75% faster spinup etc.

@TrollGarlic

5 ай бұрын

shame he disabled headshot crits on ronket

@Sethilliano

5 ай бұрын

Lol

@abzolutelynothn

5 ай бұрын

​@@TrollGarlicAh yes, ronket

@tacoforce5

5 ай бұрын

pov: you commented without watching the video

@Bradorks

5 ай бұрын

@@tacoforce5 Yeah I was literally about to say

FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH RANDOM CRITS. now RANDOM HEADSHOTS are my new BEST FRIEND.

@cuenta007

2 ай бұрын

You were friends with random crits???

@ethangames5189

2 ай бұрын

dont you mean: "skillful kills"?

@thyme_unlikesonicdoesntchuckle

Ай бұрын

@@cuenta007you weren't?

@cuenta007

Ай бұрын

@@thyme_unlikesonicdoesntchuckle i am

@manoftheocean6988

11 күн бұрын

Huntsman users, rejoice!

Maybe keep a server with this mod around permanently, I think there's a market for it. Just have the server include instant respawning. Would be a great place to level up more niche stranges.

@toddoverholt4556

5 ай бұрын

Maybe not instant but maybe reduced respawn times

@canadiancupcake2443

5 ай бұрын

would be an absolutely killer game mode

@sentientlvl.5mortar886

5 ай бұрын

Tf2 global skirmish

@user-cg4yf6ib2h

5 ай бұрын

my thoughts exactly

@todest4nz86

5 ай бұрын

PIN THIS COMMENT

Absolutely love the "actually running the experiment and looking at the results in depth"!!! Excited for more of that!

Ok, real talk, this is casually one of the best videos I've _ever_ seen on the discussion of TF2's balance. Being able to actually test the ideas presented in the video is a massive change of pace, turning the video from a glorified reddit argument to an actual, in-depth exploration of TF2's design philosophy and balance decisions, with tangible experience to back up any conclusions. Having the discussion of the effect of the change be framed as a testable hypothesis rather than an argument makes the video significantly more enjoyable, along with the conclusions at the end being significantly more informed. Please do more of these, the TF2 community's in a bit of a state right now when it comes to balance discussions, so doing something like this to put people's money where their mouth is is sorely needed.

@aaronrachiele5521

5 ай бұрын

Fully agree

@Game-qi7qd

5 ай бұрын

I ain’t reading allat

@aaronrachiele5521

5 ай бұрын

@@Game-qi7qd ... okay

@shinobuoshino5066

5 ай бұрын

except this video says nothing other than "nothing changed".

@ticklemedaddy

5 ай бұрын

​@@shinobuoshino5066 The voices.

Headshots in TF2 have always been a strange case to me

@segadoeswhatnintendont

5 ай бұрын

On one hand, its nice to have different ways to hit enemys while using the same weapon,

@gaypenice

5 ай бұрын

@@segadoeswhatnintendont the community will bitch about it the same way they do with random crits

@ibymalik4139

5 ай бұрын

Eeh i think that they will bitch less as its something everyone can do with skill instead of relying on rng. Lots of soldier and sniper mains are probably gonna complain as there is way more counter play to sniper and soldiers can just be deleted with decent aim from hitscan weapons

@Joosher56

5 ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@segadoeswhatnintendontbut on the other hand, crits usually look like they would function differently from regular damage.

@penguinbenguin

5 ай бұрын

@@ibymalik4139 you don't get the joke do you

I think the problem with Heavy Shotguns even in this Headshot Mod is mostly just that doubling up on bullets when you're already tanky enough to take a few shots and respond with a fully revved minigun just keeps being redundant.

@SethAbercromby

5 ай бұрын

Imo it's honestly a pretty solid pick against demos and scouts, if you aren't already revving the minigun. Both can burst DPS a heavy faster than he can output from zero and are typically close enough to eat a meatshot. For any amount of sustained damage and longer ranges you'd always default to the minigun, but even without crits I sometimes like to switch to a shotgun when I want to be moving quickly or notice a scout trying to flank in something like KotH.

@aquamarinerose5405

5 ай бұрын

@@SethAbercromby of course there are use-cases for it. We just hear how often the shotty is left to gather dust 90% of the time for most players so much, and that being true even in this mode, there's got to be a reason

@NiiRubra

5 ай бұрын

The reason is mostly a lack of imagination on the players part. They tend to be hyper focused on sandvich related meta and don't build their loadouts around the idea of carrying and using a shotgun

@shoelariat

5 ай бұрын

if i could ask anything of valve to add one last item or item set it'd be a non minigun primary for heavy to facilitate an alternate playstyle. It feels so bad to play fat scout sometimes cause i know im just wasting my primary slot. like I'd literally take +1 max health as a whole item instead of a minigun valve plz

This mod was the only time I really consistently enjoyed playing Heavy, which was fun lol, though I absolutely need to give shotgun Trolldier a shot. Mantread instakills sound awesome, but highly mobile Scout with how powerful shotguns are sounds so cool

@frozenfire6262

5 ай бұрын

Oh hey i pocketed your heavy yesterday when I went medic And yeah shotgun trolldier is incredibly fun with headshots, it was the first thing I tried with the headshot mod

Demoknight is always a good pick for anything that ends up relying on Vaccinator Medic combos because melee damage isn't accounted for in any of the three Vaccinator defensive types, not to mention it's a great flank and surprise tool in most any scenario

A very obscure perk of the Enforcer is that completely deletes overheal. No matter the range, a single bullet can delete 150hp worth of overheal out of a heavy, so i guess that might've favored the vaccinator matchup even more

@maywolf9443

4 ай бұрын

Is this true? I looked it up and have only found 1 Reddit comment that is pushed by google when I search for it, and even then I can’t find it when I actually open Reddit through said link

@waitingfortheequinnox

4 ай бұрын

Is that an unlisted stat?

@maywolf9443

4 ай бұрын

@@waitingfortheequinnox it may be a glitch

@magnum78923

4 ай бұрын

@@waitingfortheequinnox Kind of? It says in the stat that "it pierces through damage resistances AND bonuses" and overheal can be considered quite literally a health bonus

@maywolf9443

4 ай бұрын

@@magnum78923 holy cow it does

We need a permanent server for this. I want to try it and it looks like a lot of fun

It was really fun doing this experiment! Was really fun to participate in

It's insane how TF2 would've been infinitely more annoying to play if headshots existed for all weapons. I'd hate being a Medic with full Uber just to get headshot by a Scout.

Now I want all melees to be able to backstab

@thishandlefeaturesucks

5 ай бұрын

Demoknights would be much more powerful

@saturniidspectre

11 күн бұрын

Heavy would be totally obsolete.

@ForgillMaster51

7 күн бұрын

FISH-STAB 🐟

So if tf2 shotguns can crit they become payday shotguns?

Dude, You should keep it up permanently, unless Valve decides to make it official. This was the best change of pace mod I have ever played in ANY game. It was (surprisingly) balanced, familiar and breathed new life into overlooked sub-classes.

Experiment I'd want to see is just HP multipliers. What if everyone's at ×0.5? ×2? ×6 even‽

@moronichybrid

5 ай бұрын

x0.5: Sniper OP x2: Explosives/High DPS required x6: Pitfalls/Kill Zones

@TheMistermastermario

5 ай бұрын

Shounic did an experiment where medic overheal was infinite and Phlog Pyro became the meta since nothing else could match its dps

@noahhill841

5 ай бұрын

0.5x just frustrating spam and quickscopes 2x mainly just heavy, demo and sniper due to very high dps 6x spy becomes near required sniper useless

@Howthetoastcrumbled

5 ай бұрын

Overwatch

If I could recommend something for the next mod, how about giving Scout and Engineer access to Spy’s Revolvers, and giving Spy access to the Pistols? Both are classified as Secondary Weapons, and it’d be nice to see if they are of the same tier of damage. For stat changes, I’d imagine the Letranger would reload your primary (only once, not a full clip), the Diamondback would reward revenge minicrits, and the Enforcer would still be the Enforcer. For Spy, I’d probably make the Wrangler mark a target like the spawn wall hack does, and the Short Circuit would use the cloak pool as if it were a 100 metal pool.

@Josh-jw3go

5 ай бұрын

Ambassador scout sounds like hell

@Aaa-vp6ug

5 ай бұрын

Marking got cut because its buggy, it would be neat if you could use it to wrangle an enemy sentry while the Engie isn’t at the nest though.

@willsmish2837

5 ай бұрын

Revolver is spy's primary

@llmkursk8254

5 ай бұрын

@@willsmish2837 It's still technically a "secondary" weapon. It's like saying that Engineer's shotgun is his primary.

@redactedgamersgd1788

5 ай бұрын

I can think of an Engineer loadout named the Revengeful Engie which consists of Frontier Justice, Diamondback and the Jag. Completely defensive but he will be full of crits all across him when you destroy his 10 kills (20 Assists) sentry gun on 2Fort

This video illustrates why weapons like shotguns are never balanced in games like COD but almost perfectly balanced in tf2. Very cool

@calebbarnhouse496

5 ай бұрын

It's amazing how little you understand how other games work

@Skullhawk13

5 ай бұрын

@@calebbarnhouse496passive aggressive whining isn’t productive. If you had a counter example you should’ve said it, because now everyone thinks you’re a salty cod kid and you’ve lost the benefit of the doubt.

@catpurrito5586

5 ай бұрын

what about counter strike's shotguns

@calebbarnhouse496

5 ай бұрын

@@Skullhawk13 it's not passive aggressive whining you moron, it's an insult, believe it or not tf2 shotguns aren't even close to well balanced, for starters, on 2/9 classes they are required to be ran, the other 7, 4 can't use a shotgun, 3 of them can, soldier, pyro and heavy, all of them don't work with what the class wants to do at all, so yea, jerking off a game for having 2 out of 5 shotguns as viable isn't impressive, and of course that's ignoring the fact that engineer is one of those 2, whose shotgun is so bad that to make it a viable combat tool you have to make a variant that basically has infinite ammo if you can land your shots at close range, and the scout's main reason for being good is his high speed, if he wasn't locked into a shotgun he wouldn't use them

@nathanwaterser8218

5 ай бұрын

​@@catpurrito5586Somewhat balanced but still rather underwhealming You can only 1shot at close range while anyone with an AK, AWP or Deagle can delete you from across the map with a headshot (or a shot to the chest with the AWP)

Your editing has gotten really good recently, keep up the good work!

sounds like a fun half way point to playing in a 100% crit server

@darkness74185

4 ай бұрын

with the benefit of not getting deleted by crockets and pills flying all over the place it might just be flat out a better experience

Since stomps already deal 3× your fall damage, hitting a crit should deal 9× damage, which should be fun to watch lol

I get you didn't want to make new weapons for this mod, but it would've been cool to see the Ambassador get *some* buff that gives it some sort of edge over the other revolvers for head shots. Maybe reduce that 1s delay before you're accurate again, so skilled spies can get their well aimed kills faster, and bad spies (me) can go for the one headshot they need more times in one fight, increasing the chance we get the lucky hit.

@Wolf-oc6tx

5 ай бұрын

I think maybe a successful headshot can lessen or remove the cool down, that way lucky shots and skilful shots can be followed up on without rendering the other revolvers unappealing.

@uningenious

5 ай бұрын

​@@Wolf-oc6txTrue. You have the enforcer, which when disguised, allows you to become pocket sniper in this mod with a 144 crit headshot. Definitely agree amby should get some tweak, same with some of the more weaker weapons like machina.

Scout would become a nightmare if this was true

Subscribed to hopefully see more experiments, this was fascinating to see in action!

This worked out a lot better than I anticipated, well done

I'm very glad you're actually doing the tests now! Seeing the predictions was always nice, but the dynamic between them and the new results really catapulted this video into rewatchable territory. :) What about a follow-up with mini-crits instead of full crits? Maybe it would solve the instant-death issue and also boost explosive and fire damage?

in defense of rapid fire weapons, headshots are probably more common then you think, in FAR CRY 5 ARCADE. ARs are actually meta because if you just hold blind fire, theres like a 70% they just die from headshots within a second

I've been wondering this for a long time and I'm glad someone finally decided to test it out

Went into the server and was one other guy. We just kinda messed around and it really wasn’t that broken. Maybe if there was more people it be different but it was pretty chill

It’s great that you can finally recreate your scenarios with some help. Exploring your old hypotheses and making them a reality would be fun videos for 2024.

I'm wondering what would have happened if the headshots dealt mini-crits instead of full crits.

@shinobuoshino5066

5 ай бұрын

nothing

@wingdinggaster6737

5 ай бұрын

@@shinobuoshino5066that’s just wrong. Multiple of the more broken weapons would be less viable, while the weaker weapons would fill the gaps.

This honestly sounds like a really fun time! I'll have to give it a proper swing at some point in the future.

Hey nice to see the theories in action, it would be nice to re visit some what ifs to put them to test

sounds like an interesting case honestly i felt like the reason weapons don't oneshot have just been for balancing, but its nice to see a "what-if"

@Appletank8

5 ай бұрын

Mini crits might be a more balanced alternative in line with TF2's design philosophy

@tailez606

5 ай бұрын

I think not just for balancing, but TF2 came out in an environment of both Counter Strike: Source and Day of Defeat: Source having headshots and low TTK. Not having headshots for every hitscan was a great way to make the game be more mechanically distinct and interesting to develop for the game designers at Valve.

@screamingcactus1753

4 ай бұрын

@@tailez606 I'm sure it also helped to lower the skill floor, which was important for what was intended to be a casual game. Casual players who might not have the best aim wouldn't need to worry about headshots unless they were playing the dedicated headshot class, and could just focus on the much easier center mass shots without losing damage potential.

Great video, I've thought about this idea myself. I think it could be interesting if headshots functioned more like Mini-Crits: a nice boost of damage, whilst still experiencing falloff. Also, just throwing it out there, but a way to make "Headshots" work on explosive weapons could be increasing their base damage to be in-line with Crit damage at max ramp-up, but giving them way harsher falloff. Just a thought.

I would love to see previous concepts similar to this one re-done with testing now that you have the means to do it on occasion

16:16 I don't think it's an actual disparity in their effectiveness but a disparity in their perceived effectiveness. Everyone and their grandma has it ingrained in them that only lunchbox items are worth using. With the Tomislav, maybe they have a point, and I'll give it to them that the Tomislav is probably Heavy's best all-around option, but with any other minigun there's some serious versatility to having a shotgun to let you deal with enemies without revving up. Especially in a mod where fights end so quickly, I think shotguns were simply underutilized.

The vaccinator being kind of broken in this situation isn't all that surprising considering how broken it is in every situation.

So you turned TF2 into a war themed hero based CSGO?

It is funny how Sniper now feels fair to fight against because He is no longer the only Class to be able to Insta Kill on Headshot Yeah He still has the "Hit Scan From The Other Side Of The Map" kind of "Problem" but outside of that Everyone can now have a legit Fair Fighting Chance against Sniper

@Buglin_Burger7878

5 ай бұрын

Ironically a large part of it is due to the fact Sniper needs to ADS or have less clear pictures of their enemy, combined with the fact Spy is practically a straight upgrade doing 144 burst damage, can cloak, and can disguise so players now have to gamble with where your head is or if you're a non-spy. Once your own allies start 1-shotting you from range anything with less then 144 health should become unplayable with time as you have to anticipate them being anywhere. It is basically like dealing with hackers and cheaters but worse.

@alface935

5 ай бұрын

@@Buglin_Burger7878 Good Point

@Pururut

5 ай бұрын

@@Buglin_Burger7878 feels more like you just have to be as aware of spies being everywhere as before tbh

@darkness74185

4 ай бұрын

Sniper under this mod would be way less advantageous for duels in general now that he can't just stay out of effective range for 5 out of 9 classes because of damage fall-off, and since his balance is inherently based on giving him the least amount of utility tools in general, you'll need a lot more skill investment to get meaningful results (which is a good thing imo)

@alface935

4 ай бұрын

@@darkness74185 True

Im glad i got to participate in this experiment. It was a blast

one idea for a mod can be letting heavy equip the shotguns in his primary slot, it would mean that fat scouts would no longer have to completely ignore an entire weapon slot, and allow them to use both a shotgun and a lunchbox item. and the ability to run 2 different shotguns, that perform better in different situations would possibly make way for interesting strategies

I hope this mod plug-in gets put into some servers at some point, this looks really fun

Are you talking on x2 speed?

@heavygamingupwardenjoyer1834

12 күн бұрын

Trust me it is way worse on x2

@scaringthecrow

3 күн бұрын

Bro I just smoked a j and thought I was tripping.

@HOTD108_

13 сағат бұрын

​@@scaringthecrowWell there's your problem

oh wow i was just looking for a video like this from you yesterday

A cool experiment could be similar to the shounic sentry buster video - bruteforcing balance but this time by giving a class's worst weapon guaranteed crits. It would be interesting to see which weapons are so bad that even crits can't save them and which ones become stupidly broken

Next do what if every melee could backstab

@christopherearth9714

5 ай бұрын

Spy fucking dies

@davidhong1934

5 ай бұрын

How does a Scout supposed to stab people with a baseball bat? How is Heavy supposed to stab people wih his fists?

@christopherearth9714

5 ай бұрын

@@davidhong1934 one inch punch

@Oswaldo_Godoy

5 ай бұрын

@@davidhong1934 just make it say all the blunt melee weapons break the spot where the neck meets the skull, that almost always instantly kills people irl, instead of scout's bat or heavy's fists saying "backstab" it says "breakneck" instead or something like that

@davidhong1934

5 ай бұрын

​@@Oswaldo_Godoy N E C K *snap*

I would love to see a Community Server with this mod kept around, because it sounds like a lot of fun for sure.

this looks a lot more fun to me than normal tf2 and a lot of the classes based on your description seem to work a lot more like I originally imagined they should. Especially Spy and Heavy.

What's an even more interesting question is what if the TF2 Weapons could act like real weapons were getting shot or hit will cause you to bleed depending on the weapon used and getting a single headshot on any weapon will instantly kill you

@commanderdemonno9819

5 ай бұрын

how are you already here

@TrollGarlic

5 ай бұрын

@@commanderdemonno9819hes just better

@Sethilliano

5 ай бұрын

Its u!!

@youtubeisdead1858

5 ай бұрын

Heavy, Soldier, and especially Engineer would have to be nerfed FAST. Also Medic would be nerfed heavily

@methanolslurper

5 ай бұрын

You can just play a battlefield game. There is no bleeding, but the ttk is as near to 0 as can be

Better version that should be in the game, all hitscan weapons can headshot for minicrits, while full crits are reserved to sniper rifle, ambassador and bows. I think you should rerun the experiment with minicrit headshots instead. It gives ambassador and zoomed sniping purpose while other weapons still get rewarded.

"I'm sorry, Dr. Einstein. Conventional bombs just don't vaporize people." Eintein: 0:31

it was really fun taking part in this scenario, although that first day with the minigun sounds was absolutely horrible

This mod has made me want a sniper rifle that cannot scope (or charge) but hits for 100 on headshot in the normal game. That sounds so unbelievably fun.

@AziSlays

5 ай бұрын

It'd be shit.

@bitcidic

5 ай бұрын

@@AziSlays it’s literally the old ambassador with no headshot cooldown it would most certainly not be shit

@Echs_D33

5 ай бұрын

Isn’t that just the bows?

@bitcidic

5 ай бұрын

@@Echs_D33 I think it’s different enough, it wouldn’t have to charge and its hitscan so it can still hit instantly from across the map

@Rylainecchi

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, always want something like M14 or M1 Garand for Sniper

I guess this video proves that the Huntsman has good headshot mechanics. It would be interesting to do this idea again, except with Lucksman headshots on projectiles (it acts as a good buff to the Bison and Pompson while making one of the weakest classes viable with flares).

These kinds of precise analytical videos makes me want Great Blue to open a custom weapons server and investigate how balanced community ideas for items are.

This video is literally how a science experiment works. You have the theory, the hypothesis, the experiment itself, then finally the results. Amazing video. Did not expect such an in depth science video from tf2

If this was implemented as a misc game mode, then I think they’d have to apply the amby’s crit falloff (like I said in a previous comment on the post) or else the pistol will be a M40 and the revolver will be a direct upgrade to the amby.

Finally, this is a topic that ive been waiting for someone to discuss about. Also cant the explodives use simlar code of the huntsman. Like detecting the closest body part to the center of the blast?

@marsmonke4160

5 ай бұрын

Considering how crits work in rocket launchers/stickies/pipes it would mean that you could decimate a whole group of people together if you just headshot one of them, which isn't very fun

congrats, you just made one of the best server plugins ever!

the projectile weapons would probably receive the Huntsman's hybrid hit registration: upon hitting the projectile hurtbox they snap to the nearest hitscan hurtbox, meaning their headshots will be a lot more generous

Honestly this would be a very satisfactory replacement for random crits in the game. Still essentially random if you spray and pray, and yet actively awards skill. One side still gets the "rare high moments" and the other gets rewarded for actual skillful aiming. Yet everyone still gets the thrill of getting a crit occasionally either way. Just make the slow projectiles use the huntsman headshot mechanics, a few other minor tweaks and balances, and you've got a golden system to legitimately replace random crits.

This was a fantastic experiment! I think one takeaway from this in how it reflects the game balance is that wow, hitscan weapons in vanilla currently have it ROUGH, namely the automatic weapons. It's interesting that by ratcheting up the potential damage, certain classes feel more like they're being played in what I believe Valve originally intended them to be played; it feels like the "emergency" or "finisher" secondary weapons like Scout's pistols or Soldier/Pyro's shotguns actually feel like something you want to use in tandem with your primaries because it's fun and rewarding rather than just a perfunctory option to boost your gameplay to the skill ceiling. I rarely play Heavy because his slowness in movement and lacking in actually dangerous DPS beyond close range makes him a bore and hard to feel like the impactful frontliner he's supposed to be, but giving him sincerely deadly and fast DPS in mid-ranges would probably make me actually wanna try him, because it feels like he's more than just a passive anchor enabled by the support around him, and he can instead forcefully assert himself as the game's "tank" class. Certain weapons would still need to be retouched to accomodate the shift (Kritzkrieg sounds miserable lol) but I think adding regular headshots to the base game would be fantastic in helping encourage diversity in playstyles -- TF2's balance is stupidly frontloaded towards projectiles and shotguns, it would be so rad to make automatic weapons feel like a worthy option and justify their existence in the game rather than relegating them to a tertiary "emergency" role.

@RdTrler

5 ай бұрын

Back in 2007, everybody had shotguns and pistols and SMGs so they all felt useful. That's because everyone would dish out some chip damage, so putting in your 25 damage was enough to delete Scouts. Heavy also felt great back then, because 450 health wasn't something you could chip away at. It was also a time before Counter-Strike professionals *really* grew in numbers and started spreading into other games, so Snipers were balanced by "being hard to use" at the time.

@giahuynguyenkim6389

5 ай бұрын

I'd argue that Heavy is how a tank actually functions instead of your typical damage tanking class, as they are slow, yet do devastating damages and are heavily armoured.

@Number9Robotic

5 ай бұрын

@@RdTrler That sounds about right, I do believe this current meta was kind of a natural result of not necessarily "power creep", but just certain items and mechanics being added to the game and getting more popular than others that resulted in balance skewing very much in bias towards burst damage options than automatic weapons.

@Number9Robotic

5 ай бұрын

@@giahuynguyenkim6389 He definitely does serve that "anchor tank" function in TF2 for sure, problem is that he still feels very much a passive agent; he lacks options to assert himself beyond his ok DPS, and instead has to rely on his team to enable him any kind of significant power. Here with him actually having lethal DPS, it's the difference between "Heavy is important because he's important to team formation and perfunctory levels of suppressive DPS" and "Heavy is important because HOLY F WATCH OUT"

@redactedoktor

5 ай бұрын

Maybe adding Mini-Crit headshots to weapons excluding the Flamethrower, Rocket Launcher, Pipe Grenade and Sticky Bomb Launcher. Mini-Crits have Damage Ramp Up, so it wouldn't boost classes too far out of their normal effective ranges, but it would make them stronger, especially rapid-fire weapons. Scout's Scattergun would get a little crazy though, but I think a semi-decent fix would be to have it instead fire say 3 bullets every tick after firing, each click firing 1 perfectly accurate pellet and then 3 groups of scattered pellets across just 0.045 seconds after clicking, the first group going in each direction in a circle around the crosshair randomly, the second going the opposite direction of the 1st one, and the last group randomly filling in between those 6 shots, so if 1 headshots, only 3 get the Mini-Crit boost, and if it's only the first perfectly accurate pellet that headshot, only it gets Mini-Crit boosted, and the Scatterguns bullets would better "Scatter". I know Scatterguns and Shotguns are synonyms irl, but idk, I just always felt like the Scattergun should have a couple more functional differences compared to Shotguns, especially with such a unique design. And then maybe change the Shotguns fixed spread to be in the shape of a circle, for me only, it always bugged me it was in the shape of a square.

It is very cool you are somewhat able to do your own meta experiments! I was always wondering what builds mercs will end up with if they were able to equip additional secondary or melee option instead of their primary weapon. I am sure it would be very interesting to see some crazy builds matched up.

this is such a well made video good stuff fr

Now this makes me wonder: with TF2 being in a mid Time-to-Kill game, and this essentially lowering the TTK, how fun would the game be with a higher TTK? Something like equally multiplying each class' health could be a start.

Interesting results. Did this experiment give you a firm sense of which class you think would benefit most from an Ambassador-like weapon? It seems to me that this video suggests that a Scout or Heavy with a weapon that can headshot (in the normal TF2) would benefit most.

This sounds REALLY fun. I hope the server is still up

itd probably cost a bit keeping a server up but i think itd be cool if after a few more experiment mods are ran on the test server; the server just stayed up and rotated what experiment was being run every match or few hours or few days or something

Wonder if you could try different variations on headshot rewarding minicrits instead or some variation of Crits that have falloff or change in damage boost, such as a 2x damage boost in other FPS instead of 3x in Standard Crits

I imagined sniper scope on most of his weapons has a built in eye scanner for headshots since when you unzoomed it doesn't headshot

I would love to see a follow-up video discussing balancing weapons around this mode, especially ones that are either made entirely redundant like the Ambassador or turned into straight upgrades like the Sydney Sleeper. Also, as a Heavy main, the way miniguns get a massive buff makes me very happy. It makes a good Heavy a legit threat again. Honestly I wouldn't mind the main game gaining this feature, after the weapons have been adjusted accordingly of course.

Fun fact: this is in Open fortress as a feature enabled by the server, although usually isn't selected in more casual play for balance reasons. You can set up your own server with bots and use another feature like the TF2 classes being enabled to test these weapons as well!

with much lower time to kill across the board, wouldn't offence have a massive advantage due to how much more heavily defence is punished for death with the long respawn timers?

@screamingcactus1753

4 ай бұрын

Defense has longer respawn timers, but also are usually right back in the fight as soon as they leave spawn. Offense on average has a much longer walk between their spawn and the objective.

Honestly, if they really tweaked the hitboxes (and possibly damage) for it, I'd love to see the headshot mechanic on the Flying Guillotine in regular game. Whilst the sandman-guillotine combo left you with a mouthful of vomit, the lack of a crit due to the sandman nerf made me feel a lil sad that the guillotine was stripped of a unique gimmick.

3:12 "I imagine every shotgun shot would be pretty powerful at close range" Yeah, as they should be given it's a close range weapon being used at close range.

Cool little bit of info (at least to me), the way the headshots work on shotguns in this experiment is also exactly how they work in Payday 2 as well! Shotguns as a result are SUPER fun to play with in that game.

Wouldn't the force a nature be very good aswell since it has more pellets per shot?

@samgraffen9212

5 ай бұрын

The only issue I see would be the knockback it applies, making 2 quick precision hits difficult.

NO GOD NO THIS WULD BE WORSE THAT RANDOM CRITS

One thing that might make hitscan more balanced in this mod would be to switch them to minicrits and leave projectile weapons (minus maybe medic's) with normal crits to make them a bit more appealing inspite of their jank headshot detection. That probably wouldnt completely fix things but save finding a way to give projectiles good detection I cant really think of anything else that might help balance the mod a bit better as an alternative.

We need a community server that runs this plug-in

Turning off random crits I understand, but turning off random spread? I feel like this is a whole different situation when that's the case. There is a reason why all the games you mentioned at the start have bulletspread. 😹

@someoneelse1942

5 ай бұрын

It only turns off random shotgun spread, turning it into a more predictable spread instead of the normal random one, everything else is unchanged as far as I know.

@Buglin_Burger7878

5 ай бұрын

Random spread would actually amplify the issues as opposed to static spread. Random spread lets you land more shots at longer ranges, where you'd normally just land 1-2 while at close range giving a higher chance of failing. Static spreads give up long range gamble for consistency within each range's own profile.

After experiencing this mod, I believe it should be officially added to TF2. Seemed pretty balanced to me.

@Sethilliano

5 ай бұрын

Woahhh King of upward

@FedoraMann6401

5 ай бұрын

Upward map always seemed like a strange case to me...

I actually was thinking something along the lines of this video a few days ago. I was thinking of reaching out and suggesting it, but I see I have been beaten to the punch.

I love this experiment video idea

TLDR: Rainbow Six fortress

Weapon headshots in tf2 have always seemed as such a strange case to me

The thought of looking at the kill-feed and seeing flamethrower headshots is somewhat terrifying

Genuinely seems quite fun, let's see some [Headshots] servers up.

I saw the fatmagic stream of this mod and the rescue ranger honestly seemed really nuts

Hosting a server for wild ideas like this is a dream come true

The ragdoll at 16:40 is badass

Strange but interesting experiment. I wonder if other community servers would eventually start hosting these kinds of games with headshot mod installed.

Implementing the experiment as a mod and analysing the result really lifted this one over the rest. And as a university student i can only appreciate a good field test and a great analysis. "CS:GO headshot icon" out of five stars

Great video, would be interested to see raw statistics such as pick rate or something.

Prety sure miniguns always shoot 1 pellet exactly in center for first shot and the other 3 are random after which all 4 pelets have a degree of randomness but this resets every 0.25 seconds or so thus granting you infinite range on 1 pellet if you manually click to shoot each "bullet".

I have an idea that could make another great what if video. What if every class has a tertiary slot? Since Engineer and Spy already has that, you can give both of them a fifth slot. This is something I've thought of, but never delved too deep about it.