1:01 - training further away from failure has benefits (vs needing "effective reps") 2:28 - progressive loading: adaptation allows progress (vs progress creating adaptation) 3:15 - Austin echoes against "effective reps" 3:43 - specificity vs variation/isolation (and ability to do extra things) 4:45 - Austin echoes progress vs adaptation 5:45 - conclusions about past and future recommendations

That resonates with how I am starting back up after 18 months off. Rather than increment weight to drive results, I am keeping the weight the same until my last set is at RPE 7, then I increment 2-5% next session. I barely get sore anymore and since I am 64, that is a very nice outcome.

@DorianDeLuca

2 жыл бұрын

You may have just changed my life.

@Tim3is

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like you just do warmups?

@moorejl57

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tim3is After incrementing the weight, my top set will be at RPE 8 just as prescribed. The only difference is that I keep the weight the same until it is at RPE 7 before incrementing.

@Tim3is

2 жыл бұрын

@@moorejl57 way to much room for subjectivity and the subconscious mind to play tricks on you but if it works for you then more power to you.

@moorejl57

2 жыл бұрын

@@Tim3is I am still achieving progressive overload, just not as fast as maybe you. My old man joints need time to recover, so this is my way of slowing things down a little bit.

My favorite and most trusted resource in this space since 2016/17!

Happy Thanksgiving in advance Dr Feigenbaum

Great content!

1st thing I noticed, before the chat. Was Austin’s seperation on his triceps! Maybe Austin is looking outside the strength program in the future, regardless Jordan and Austin, have helped me over the last 2 years to reach a triple @400lbs@ 13 stones💪

What do you think about your original 12-Week Strength and 7-Week GPP/Hypertrophy templates now? Would you still consider those to be in line with your current mindset when it comes to programming?

for me, the dogmatic striving for "perfect technique" or a "perfectly executed exercise". struggling and having more mistakes is more beneficial in the learning process. and also I came on the: " what is perfect technique?" one day on a seminar , the doctor (phd) lecturing said ' biomechanics don't matter, untill they do" . and maybe it's a bit lightly put, but I do think it has some weight to it. Why obsess on something, when in the end it works, and my athlete/Patient has 0 problems or complaints?

@beesmongeese2978

2 жыл бұрын

As Mike Tyson once put: I broke my back.

Best infoemational content on strength training available today right next to greg nukols. And wtf? This was in san Antonio?? Wish i knew, i would've attended

The book burn is blowing my mind on energy expenditure and tackling obesity and weight loss

@ianpier16

2 жыл бұрын

Who is it by

@AislingDonohoe

2 жыл бұрын

@@ianpier16 Herman Pontzer.

@atlusleonis

2 жыл бұрын

I see two books titled Burn by Herman Pontzer. Which one is the one you are reading?

@allstrongfitness

2 жыл бұрын

@@atlusleonis im not sure. Find the one talking about energy expenditure

@ianpier16

2 жыл бұрын

Any signs of an audiobook on youtube

I have no idea whether staying that far from failure (4-5) reps is as optimal as getting closer to failure (1-2 rir) for hypertrophy training, but my God how boring it must be to do hypertrophy focused training at 4-5 rir. Imagine doing some bicep curls and stopping that far from failure, I dont think I could tell the difference between a 10 and 5 rir bicep curl set, I'm sure the doctors know what theyre talking about but I dont think this would ever work for me (talking strictly about hypertrophy training)

@nfdisco3484

2 жыл бұрын

The point of not going close to failure is to prevent too much fatigue, but that doesn't really apply to bicep curls. A bicep curl is not going to create a lot of fatigue even if you get to failure. The big lifts are.

@doug853

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with the previous comment. If you're isolating a muscle, then feel free to push that set close to failure because the systemic fatigue and risk of injury is much lower. If you're squatting, benching, etc and getting close to failure you're significantly increasing your risk of injury and it's just not worth it.

@Daniearp

2 жыл бұрын

@@doug853 I understand that, and maybe my example was a bit extreme, but even for things like bench press, OHP and squats, I honestly don't know if I could tell the difference between a 3 RIR set and a 5 RIR set, when we talk about true failure. So even though in theory this approach could work, I fear I just wouldn't be able to gauge the effort properly, again, talking about hypertrophy training here. 1-2 RIR for me personally is where I can usually tell with high confidence

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

@@Daniearp velocity loss and subjective effort would get you as close as you need to be to guard the effort. You don’t need to select a less effective option unless you prefer it.

@doug853

2 жыл бұрын

@@Daniearp I see what you're saying. Yeah I think leaving a solid rep or two in the tank is a good idea.

Did not know if camera angle but both looking thick in this. Compared to old videos

If more of your sets are now done further from failure, do you do more volume?

@coolwinds2476

2 жыл бұрын

I think the idea is that doing some work further from failure can result in similar adaptations for less fatigue cost. It would make it easier to add volume if you've determined that you need more - just depends on the context

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes, yes.

@nockianlifter661

Жыл бұрын

@@BarbellMedicine ‘Sometimes’ indicates a lack of principle in the training, it should work the same for everyone. Isn’t the real issue human variables relating to things such as stress, injury, diet, rest, motivation and sleep being more difficult to quantify per individual, which in turn ends up driving the programming ? It’s obviously better to train at less than ideal numbers than not to train at all, but that isn’t optimal.

I am not an advanced lifter, but my impression from watching videos from various sources is that the stronger you get the more important sub-maximal training becomes. Doing a set of 6 at 80% of your max is just more draining if your squat max is 585 pounds rather than 315 pounds. If your max squat is 315 pounds you you squat two times a week, you may be able to fully recover before each session even though you are doing RPE 8 and 9's. If you max squat is 585 pounds and you are squatting 2 times a week, you may not be able to recover from that and have to do more work at RPE 6 AND 7. I suspect that most novices and early intermediates can benefit from sub-maximal work but they can progress faster by doing a lot of RPE 8ish work. As they get stronger and need more recovery, that equation can change. As Jordan and Austin get closer to their own genetic peak and probably as they coach more advanced athletes they probably getting more first hand experience with submaxial work. One of the criticisms of the Texas Method is it assumes the lifter got pretty darn strong off the linear progression and needs more recovery to progress. For fast gainers who end their linear progression at say 315 pound bench 1 rep max, 425 squat 1 rep max, and say a 505 deadlift 1 rep max, then Texas Method might be a good transition from the linear progression because it allows for more recovery. By contrast for a slow gainer that finished the linear progression at 185 pound bench 1 rep max, 275 squat 1 rep max, and 315 deadlift 1 rep max they may need more volume, not more recovery to progress.

What humility and honesty , ...does this mean I skip my RPE 9's for 8's in my masters template?

@KevinKaneCanada

2 жыл бұрын

I think that we'll have to experiment to find what works best for each of us. Maybe for your second run of a template, you could reduce each set's RPE by 1 and add 1 set per exercise. Then compare your results to see if you responded well to the change.

Is this change in thinking about programming a result of working with others or more so oriented to yourselves? With that said, does the fact that you went through all those years grinding make your current method more necessary? In other words, do you think you could be where you are today only by following your approach of today or are you at a more advanced stage now, making today's approach more effect for you to continue to progress where as the grinding of old doesn't drive similar adaptations as it may have in the past? 🤔

@theavglifter

Жыл бұрын

They still advocate learning the skill to push close to failure. Most of their beginner and even some advanced level programs have constant training in the RPE 8-9 range. They're just saying that you don't have to train always train so close to failure to get meaningful gains.

Progessive load is permissive. I'm so glad strong voices are saying this more and more.

Interesting. So, I'm a big fan of Dr. Mike, and something he said recently was that the high-level difference between "beginner" and "intermediate" is that beginners...because they adapted, they can add 5 pounds, essentially. Whereas for intermediates, they adapt because they added 5 pounds. There's a little bit of a chicken and the egg thing going on but if I understand, as you advance in your training age and abilities you need to push closer to your boundaries to grow. In this video it sounds like y'all disagree, yah?

So hard for me to pull back (when things are going good) but god when it rains it pours. I can go pretty hard for about 10 weeks.. and then my body tells me to get bent. Then I need a deload.. but maybe less effort and I’d still get the same adaptation? Less feeling the shit in my bones? I dig it.

@ottowelt4378

2 жыл бұрын

Just train as hard as possible for 3-6 weeks and then half your volume or intensity for a week. Deload rather early than too late

@NoMirr0r

2 жыл бұрын

@@ottowelt4378 for the next two weeks my singles at 8 will be @7 and the 4-5@9 sets won’t go higher than 8. Back offs will stay % based but this might help me feeling beat up. Will consider your recommendation though! The template called for a deload at like week 6 but I wanted to keep going while it felt good and “listen to my body”. Lol maybe it was too late.

Any update on the app?

Austin has his screen turn off after 25 seconds of inactivity because any longer would be unnecessary screening.

@tzqrr

2 жыл бұрын

I approve this joke 😂

So you adapt your beliefs based on evidence and experience instead of dogmatically sticking to the same program day after day, year after year? Interesting concept some other coaches should consider.

You guys are both already huge. Is your new philosophy of training further from failure just that you're maintaining now and not focused on trying to gain anymore? i also think the combination of training far from failure and letting adaptation drive progress is a good recipe for stagnation. If you're not testing or feeling where failure is it's very easy to get stuck with the same rep and weight having the same subjective difficulty feeling week-in-week-out. I could be wrong of course but these seem to come from a place of like older guys who spent their training career successfully following one methodology to get nice gains are now wanting to chill out and not push so much, and your able to maintain what you've accomplished with that. But telling the same thing to newb lifters like me is counter-productive.

Austin is a guy who casually walks around in shorts and powerlifting shoes.

@albireoadam3966

2 жыл бұрын

You’re goddemn right

@hubbaman2935

2 жыл бұрын

Those aren’t powerlifting shoes dude. They’re Adidas NMD’s.

Is there a page where we can see your current programming? You mentioned a post in the video, and I looked at the BBM forums but do not seem to be able to find it...

@Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10

2 жыл бұрын

They have templates on their sites

@PabloZendrera

2 жыл бұрын

@@Worlds.Strongest.Mauro10 I know, I have purchased several. What I want to know is the programs that Jordan and Austin are currently doing, which I doubt is what they are selling, because they would be much more personalized for them. Obviously not for adopting them myself, just out of curiosity.

@KevinKaneCanada

2 жыл бұрын

@@PabloZendrera Jordan said that his volume is "nearly double that in the Strength III template" in a forum post, though I can't remember when he made the post.

@KevinKaneCanada

2 жыл бұрын

@@PabloZendrera Austin weekly training sample, posted 2020-09-24 The prior training cycle involved ramping 5s until the effort/fatigue got too high, then immediately transitioned right into something the looked more like: Day 1: Comp SQ Day 2: Comp DL 2 @ 7, 75% e1RM x 3 reps x 1-2 sets, 70% e1RM x 4-5 reps x 2-4 sets. This worked from 280 kg x 2 up through 295 kg x 2, then in the last two weeks I pulled 300 kg x 1, then 312.5 kg x 1 prior to the PR. Day 3: Supp SQ (pin/paused) Day 4: Supp DL (paused or deficit): 1 @ 6-7, then backoffs. These started at 4-5 sets of 6 @ 6-7, then reps gradually decreased (with load increasing) to the last week, which was 5 sets of 3 @ ~6 To be clear: this isn't magic, there are no guarantees this will work for anyone else, and there are still things I'm experimenting with myself.

Wth... when were y'all in SA?

Could this "training further from failure" mindset be because your body is getting older?

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

Nope, just works better - though we've been doing some iteration of this for a long time. Also, there are no differences in training adaptations based on age anyway.

@Xplora213

2 жыл бұрын

You get more advanced, you don’t benefit from super hard work because your super hard work is extremely hard to recover from. So you will naturally explore easier sets.

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

@@Xplora213 I’m not sure that’s true either, as you get more trained your work capacity and training tolerance increases too.

Hey guys, I thought the thing about increasing the load was already about adaptation driving the increase and not the other way around...! XD Well, we're good now I guess.

For hypertrophy, do you think 4-5 reps from failure is sufficient for isolation movements as well? Or do you err to taking isolations closer to failure?

@kingjames9191

2 жыл бұрын

Definitely closer to failure

@KevinKaneCanada

2 жыл бұрын

@@kingjames9191 Yes I've heard BBM recommend "taking isolation movements to RPE 10 regularly." But would they now perhaps recommend say 7 to 8 RPE for most isolation sets? Perhaps with an increased number of sets?

@KevinKaneCanada

2 жыл бұрын

@@kingjames9191 Data Driven Strength sometimes advocates for doing more sets at lower RPE. The idea is that keeping more RIR allows you to: 1) do more sets with 2) a higher rate of force production.

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

The data here isn't particularly supportive of going to failure outside of untrained individuals. I think we can tolerate training closer to failure on isolation exercises, but I'm not confident that it works better.

up

lol rir of 4-5 wouldn't even be considered a set in many peoples eyes

My personal experience… lift to failure. One set only, and a huge premium on recovery. 4 reps from failure is a warm up set

@tomjaap2933

Жыл бұрын

Lift to failure on squats and deadlifts damn you must be some kind of genius

Rpe 6 or 7 are warmups guys lets get real! Rpe is bs just like percentages. You guys made so much more sense when you were starting strength coaches (you look the same then as now pretty much). All your older vids were great. Sure you’ve continued to progress on your lifts since but thats a function of consistency and training and recovery. Same goes for Thrall. Maybe there is more money in complicating things because thats what the market loves. Ambiguity and hip thrusts sell.

@ProphetFear

2 жыл бұрын

Sets of 3 are "warmups" < laughable lol.

@Un1t276

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely not. You haven’t read much methodologies other than starting strength I’m sure. Starting strength is specifically a novice program, that works quite well. The more advanced you get, you need more productive volume. Grinding out sets of five constantly with no variation is a great way to not progress at all past the intermediate stage. And RPE isn’t BS. It’s a very efficient way to train because it lets you take advantage of good days, and take it easier on the days where fatigue is relatively high. Harder doesn’t always mean better. I beat myself to a pulp last summer following the Texas method, because I thought harder training was the answer to the basic question I had. Long story short, it wasn’t. I progressed slightly but needed to deload very early on into the program. Mark Rippetoe is a good coach for novices, or people who have been training and never did it the right way to start with. I fell for the same gimmick. RPE is not useless. If you tried it, you would know that. Have a great day. Hopefully this will help change your stance slightly.

@blubbermammoth8426

2 жыл бұрын

@@Un1t276 yup exactly. I follow prescribed RPE as long as I’m not feeling like I’m fatiguing day to day (strengthwise I mean) or experiencing sensitivity. I just adjust the RPE on the lifts accordingly to my issues.

Losing more and more of mark rippatoe style. Thank God

@kevinerb6268

2 жыл бұрын

@EarthatWork of course they will. Of you see someone advocating for the same shit year after year something's wrong. Science changes and so does personal experience.

@glumberty1

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinerb6268 The problem is that every time they change they are right and you are wrong. It never occurs to them that they were ever wrong before.

STOP WASTING HOURS IN THE GYM. TRAIN ON E OR TWICE A WEEK ONE SET TO FAILURE SLOW CONTROLLED. YOURE WELCOME...

The older you get the farther from failure you will train. If you want to train into old age, you have to find ways to lift and exercise that don't put you in bed, in pain, for two days.

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

The recommendation is independent of age, as age does not seem to reliably impact response to training. Age, sex, or ethnicity should not be factors in program design.

@chrischairamonte1064

2 жыл бұрын

@Barbell Medicine your perspective on that will change eventually also.

@moorejl57

2 жыл бұрын

@@BarbellMedicine May be anecdotal, but my recovery at age 64 seems nowhere as good as when I was 16. What do you currently think about the effect of decreasing T on results and recovery for men?

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

@@chrischairamonte1064 it’s what the saga repeatedly shows and we’ve literally trained thousands of people demonstrating this. You’re right though, the data may change in the future, but I don’t think personal, biased recall trumps scientific evidence. Perhaps your opinion will change as you are exposed to more of the current evidence

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

@@moorejl57 if hypogonadal, that may be an issue but it’s more likely due to reduced activity and detraining rather than hormonal milieu.

Why don’t you guys quit trying to base everything in “evidence” and start basing it on facts and outcomes. You should check out some of Mark Rippetoe’s writings.

@skidaddler6293

2 жыл бұрын

😂

@AceofDlamonds

2 жыл бұрын

You really must not know them if you think they aren't familiar with Rippetoe's writings. And a decent outcome from one routine doesn't necessarily make it the best or the only one from a set of initial conditions. And I'd rather not listen to Rippetoe's "no nonsense" nonsense he's spewed in recent years. "Facts" and "outcomes" have become buzzwords from people who narrow their perspective. Don't be that guy.

@mattjoe182

2 жыл бұрын

@@AceofDlamonds pretty sure he was being sarcastic dude 😂

@jeffworst9939

2 жыл бұрын

I'm going to assume this is trolling sarcasm... because in that context this is hilarious.

@JackgarPrime

2 жыл бұрын

This is a good troll

the mRNA injection, surely

@BarbellMedicine

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, the confidence in recommending vaccination for those eligible for it has strengthened.

@mikejones3410

2 жыл бұрын

@@BarbellMedicine gotta inject those kids too right ?

@jcarty123

2 жыл бұрын

Already-immune young folks gotta get them myocarditis, pericarditis and blood clots after all. /sad-eyeroll

@meatmilkeggfruits9117

2 жыл бұрын

@@BarbellMedicine how many doses? Every 6 months for as long as its endemic? Even vaccinate those who have already recovered from covid?

@Alex-op4ty

2 жыл бұрын

@@meatmilkeggfruits9117 We don't know. Everyone wants answers immediately and unfortunately that's not how it works