megan is great at asking the exact right questions

@noeldown1952

27 күн бұрын

That's because Bart tells her which questions to ask 😂

@robertmccormack1208

27 күн бұрын

@@noeldown1952 ok.

@cindybidwellglaze7698

27 күн бұрын

Not all, I think. He says where he wants it to go, and she asks that plus her own scholarly questions.

@rpoorbaugh

26 күн бұрын

32:08

@AS-fu1kd

23 күн бұрын

I love how she never interrupts too.

Evangelical apologists love to accuse Bart of dishonesty because he changed his mind about the empty tomb, I will note. Looking into the evidence and changing your mind is apparently unthinkable to them.

@jhake67

28 күн бұрын

changing your mind after knowing more facts is not dishonesty... it is common sense

@Jackal_El_Lobo34

28 күн бұрын

Try explaining any archaeological finding counter to the Bible or debunk the authenticity of old Christian relics and they will just get aggressive.

@MichaelJonesC-4-7

28 күн бұрын

@@jhake67 It's called "learning". ; )

@PeterSchmuttermaier

28 күн бұрын

It's what happens if people only learn to think in absolutes.

@ballasog

28 күн бұрын

@@Jackal_El_Lobo34 Not even counter to the Bible. Counter to their interpretation. They don't let the Bible speak for itself; they jam their interpretation into it. The Bible has a lot of value if you let it breathe.

Episode on Barabbas! Yes please!

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

The thief is a symbol of the winter season. Winter robs the rich (summer season of crop growth) and shares with the poor (winter season of hunger). See story of Zeus and Hermes visiting Philemon and Baucis.

Part of the torture for crucifixion, consisted of the body staying on the cross to be consumed by scavengers. The stench was a tool for intimidation.

@PC-vg8vn

28 күн бұрын

The Romans respected the Jewish request for bodies to be taken down and buried.

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

@roninofstag8245

25 күн бұрын

Dr.Tabor has mentioned that Joseph had to take Jesus' body from the tomb and bury him before Passover, since that was a thing for them at the time, as well.

@harveywabbit9541

25 күн бұрын

@@roninofstag8245 The "tomb" will remain empty until the autumn equinox. This is when Jesus will be crucified in Egypt. Aka the Sun's "fall" into the underworld. He will remain in this "tomb" until the spring equinox where he will again be crucified as part of the pass over celebration.

@July41776DedicatedtoTheProposi

25 күн бұрын

@@protochrisdelusional cult.

My most anticipated podcast of the week, thank you. Never stop what y'all are doing.

Nice shoutout to John Dominic Crossan. 👍 Great discussion. Thanks.

Always enjoy Dr. Ehrman. A level-headed, apparently unbiased (he doesn't mock or contemn anybody), straightforward analysis that comes across as eminently reasonable. I tend to believe his conclusions because he reasons them out clearly and parsimoniously.

James Tabor did an Easter week series breaking down the last week of Jesus' life that was interesting. He states that he believes that the tomb that the body was placed in was not to be his permanent burial spot, but only a holding spot bc the Passover was soon to begin and there was not enough time for complete burial. He cites the last few verses of John 19 to explain this idea.

@Bjl1976

29 күн бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/a22HpqydlLCcp7w.htmlsi=wanJSH5TjCRCZv5R

@getasimbe

28 күн бұрын

I just went and read that passage and this idea makes a lot of sense. The new tomb clearly wasn't intended for Jesus so there's no way they would have left him there once they could move him. I still have a lot of skepticism about this Joseph of Arimathea character, but assuming somehow someone was able to get Jesus' body that same day, this explanation makes sense to me.

@Bjl1976

28 күн бұрын

@getasimbe IIt made a lot of sense to me as well. I had never heard anyone speak of those verses or even read them myself in all my years of Christianity. I always thought it was strange that Mary, or the group of ladies would be going back to mess around with the body again after 3 days of decomposing but if they didn't really have time to complete full burial rituals bc of the time crunch, that return with spices 3 days later starts to become more reasonable. James is really the only historian that I have ever heard speculate on what happened to the body if it was not resurrected. Seems to be a topic that nobody wants to speculate on. I linked the full video in the earlier comment, but it was deleted I guess. Another interesting point he made was that Jesus was crucified on Thursday before Passover Friday. I've always heard it was Friday bc the Bible talks about the Sabbath being the next day, but that doesn't give you the "3 days" to an empty tomb on Sunday morning. I've asked about that math discrepency many times, and everyone just counts Friday as one of the days, which never made sense to me. James shows that there was the Passover Sabbath followed by the weekly Sabbath.

@PC-vg8vn

28 күн бұрын

He hasnt presented any good evidence for that. He also picks and chooses which part of the Gospels are true depending on whether they support his various theories. He typically argues the earliest text is the most reliable, yet he's quoting John, the last Gospel to be written.

@Bjl1976

28 күн бұрын

@PC-vg8vn The text says that because the Sabbath was neigh at hand, Jesus was placed in the tomb that was close by. Most historians agree that it was common that family tombs be on their own property. James doesn't think it would be likely that Jesus would have been permanently buried in a public forum such as that. That with the text indicating that the reason he was put therr was due to the timing seems plausible. For the decision of where Jesus body to be permanently laid to be made over a timeframe seems hasty and capricious. One would think that his people would have had a better plan than that, in my opinion. I enjoy James and Bart's opinions on things, though they differ often.

Membership in the Southern Baptist Church has continued to decline over the last seventeen years. I have a theory about that. The debates, in years past, on university campuses between atheists like Christopher Hitchens and Christian apologists were great opportunities for the youth to actually hear and see how critical thinking skills vs faith was not really a contest.

@harveywabbit9541

25 күн бұрын

It's hard to imagine that any church can be any worse than the SBC.

@deputyjack1

6 сағат бұрын

@@harveywabbit9541 As much as I didn't want to accept, after decades of intensive study, I would postulate they're actually (of the major denominations) the closest to truth in doctrine and theology...

Dear Bart, dear Megan, have you ever thought to talk and comment on literary works that handle the life of Jesus? I am thinking in particular of the novel by Nikos Kazantzakis "The Last Temptation of Christ" or "The Gospel According to Jesus Christ" by José Saramago. It would be very interesting to hear Bart's thoughts about them.

The class coming in June and the former student of Bart's are two things I'm looking forward to delving into. Love the stuff here so much!

I love her glasses but they make My eyes go cross eyed 😂😂

Got no god, er dog in this fight, and I do believe that Pilate would in nowise, otherwise be inclined to make any exception to bring a body down off a cross, but one thing that struck me was: could Joseph of Arimathea have bribed guards or even Pilate himself (since Joseph was of apparently some note and rich) to take the body down? A large sum of money may have done the trick?

@oliverbrownlow5615

29 күн бұрын

Good old bribery. Don't underestimate it.

@theobolt250

28 күн бұрын

But very unlikely. There is litterally no historic record of this man outside the gospels! Furthermore Arimathea may be.. some small town/village of literally no account. It is most likely that he was a literary invention.

@daveg5420

28 күн бұрын

Tiberius was Emperor from 14-37. In 26 he became a depressed recluse. He left Rome in the hands of Sejanus. Sejanus put his supporters in positions of power so he could take over as emperor. Pilate was appointed by Sejanus. Tiberius figured out what was going down and had Sejanus executed for treason in 31AD. Then Tiberius went after Sejanus’ appointed supporters. I’m sure Pilate was on edge out of self preservation at the time. He had a history of poorly handling the Jewish leaders. Same day burial isn’t a Christian rule. It was the Jewish leaders rule. I doubt Pilate was all that concerned with Jesus’ group. Rome’s ruthlessness was to keep the Jewish leaders in line. Rome appointed the highest Jewish leader. Rome also needed them to produce wealth for them. Like Walking Dead’s Negan. Early Christian Greek writers don’t need to have Jesus buried the same day for theology reasons. And I’m sure they knew Roman crucifixion practices. Josephus said it was common. Nothing supernatural going on here. multiple sources of the practice. I’m just practicing the same critical thinking skills I’ve learned from Dr E’s other videos.

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

@@theobolt250 The entire bible is a literary invention.

@davidbodeker6752

27 күн бұрын

@@harveywabbit9541 and like all great works of literature, it contains deep truths and meta-truths.

Excellent questions (and answers) this week.

I was just re-reading a section of "How Jesus Became God" on this topic! Divine providence strikes again, ha. Love the podcast.

@PC-vg8vn

28 күн бұрын

you should read 'How God Became Jesus'.

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

@@PC-vg8vn The Lord, God, who is a Sun and a Shield, works in mysterious ways.

i love this channel and listening to Bart and also Megans great way she hosts and asks questions. BUT what I really want to know is where she gets her great eye glasses. are they all prescriptions .... must be expensive. but very fun!!

Bart & Sarah ❤

Bart's response regarding the historicity of death by crucifixion vs. resurrection is interesting. Basically, using historical tools, one can say it is possible or probable or likely that a person who was said to have been crucified, was. But the same tools would have to conclude that a person was not resurrected, since people are not resurrected as a rule.

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

The sun dies at the autumn equinox/west (evening) and rises from the dead at the spring equinox/east (morning)..

@deputyjack1

26 күн бұрын

The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Book by Gary Habermas and Michael R. Licona

@jeffmacdonald9863

24 күн бұрын

I kind of wonder about that. Would any amount of evidence still not be convincing? Like, if instead of a handful of believers and the slow growth of a new religion with texts written decades after the fact, we had mass conversions on the spot in Jerusalem of 10s of thousands who had seen a dead man rise up? Hundreds of documents from prominent Jewish and Roman eyewitnesses who hadn't believed while he was alive. Obviously, that's not what we have, but it would certainly be far more convincing.

@Robert_L_Peters

24 күн бұрын

@@jeffmacdonald9863 that is interesting. Along those lines, we don't really know how popular the movement was amongst Jews, while Acts wants us to think there are thousands. Alternately, while historically Christianity really takes root among gentiles, even in the large cities that Paul focuses his efforts on, it seems he is writing to handfuls of people meeting in people's houses. Another intriguing question: why would Paul's message of the promised Jewish Messiah, exempting people from the law of Moses, have any appeal to people who had no clue about these things?

@slik00silk84

20 сағат бұрын

@@deputyjack1 And what a piss poor case it is!

Great point about the changes in the narrative about Pilate. Those changes are the basis for the traditional Christian claim that Jews killed Jesus. My theory is that the later Gospel authors were looking to curry favor with the Romans, so they shifted the blame to Jews.

@stevearmstrong6758

28 күн бұрын

Yea, by late first century the movement was mostly gentiles - the Jews overwhelmingly rejected the Jesus as God narrative. So the Jews became the bad guys who killed Jesus when the reality is that it was the Romans.

@TankUni

28 күн бұрын

I agree; I don't think Jesus was of much importance to Pilate at all. Pilate's main concern was likely a trouble free Passover, after which everyone would go home and continue to pay their taxes. Jesus and his little band of oddballs was a minor speedbump that Pilate dealt with in the proscribed way by executing the leader. I suspect there was a public reading of the charges with Jesus present, sentence passed and that was it. No washing of hands or offering to pardon Jesus, or a private chat that we somehow know the contents of.

@michaeldebellis4202

28 күн бұрын

I agree, except for early Christians seeking to curry favor with Rome. Most of the Early Christians were Jews. In sectarian fights no one is worse than the party that is closest to you but slightly different. The Bolsheviks hated the Czarists, but they hated the Mensheviks the most. The early Christians blamed the Jews because they saw themselves as the “true” Jews and all Jews who failed to join them as traitors. Ehrman has written on this and said more or less the same.

@michaelnewsham1412

28 күн бұрын

Don't tell MTG!

@stevearmstrong6758

28 күн бұрын

While Jesus and his disciples were Jews and the early beginnings of Christianity were Jewish, by mid to late first century (when the gospels were written) Christianity had become a movement dominated by gentile converts. The Jews overwhelmingly rejected the divinity of Jesus (or any other human) so even those who thought Jesus may have been the messiah were not part of the growing movement that became mainstream Christianity. Easy to see where they were made scapegoats in the gospels.

I love this show thanks Bart

Tovia Singer: 1) Women NEVER anoint male bodies. 2) Dead bodies are not anointed after burial because that would be pointless. So the gospel Easter morning accounts are not true. James Tabor: Jesus was only temporarily buried on his death day. Joseph of Arimathea took the body for permanent burial before the arrival of the women, so explains the empty tomb.

@BFDT-4

28 күн бұрын

THAT is a very interesting empty tomb explanation, even though the aftermath of that is still more myth than reality. Very good. I had not put those two bits together before!

@TankUni

28 күн бұрын

I like Tabor but his temporary tomb burial seems even more speculative than the explanation that the empty tomb narrative is a fiction.

@Jackal_El_Lobo34

28 күн бұрын

I like that explanation but I think the simple answer is probably what actually happened.

@skeptic_scientist

28 күн бұрын

I think, that as soon as the sun set on Saturday, Joseph of Arimathea sent his serfs to dump Jesus body in the common pit, because his tomb was for him and his family.

@sebolddaniel

28 күн бұрын

I love the Rabbi. He is a scream. I will look for that episode. Perhaps Mark wasn't a Jew at all since he was ignorant of such Jewish practices and had a Roman name. As for Tabor, I don't have a clue whether or not he is a believer. I suspect not. I frankly believe that Jesus was a flimflammer if for no other reason than that he is not exactly helping us out as we press for Armageddon. Something weird about praising a poor woman for giving her last cent to whom? Why does God or the son of God need money at all?

Am I the only person who remembers Josephus? In his autobiography he tells us that he saw three men crucified together. He went to Titus and was able to get them taken down. He got doctors to tend them, but two died. One survived. So we have three men crucified. A man called Joseph bar Matthias goes to the Roman authority and gets them taken off the crosses. He has them cared for, and one of come out of it alive. Does that sound familiar to anyone?

@DavidTraynier

27 күн бұрын

Very familiar, because Bart talks about it in the video.

@stevenpeaketrainsandstuff3682

25 күн бұрын

Around the 27 minute mark of the video Bart addresses this very thing. Try listening to the talk, then raise a question.

@Aaron-cy7oo

9 күн бұрын

Right, but Josephus wasn't born when Jesus died

I wonder if the disciples would have even stayed around to see what happened to Jesus's body. Consider this: their leader has been betrayed by one of their own and sentenced to death by the Roman authorities, and its a Friday. I would think they'd be leaving town with all due expediency, given that once the sun goes down, they are stuck until Sunday morning. I would want to put Jerusalem as far behind me as possible before Pilot decides to put the whole crew on crosses, as well.

@amyrenee1361

28 күн бұрын

That's a lot of speculation with no grounds. Pilate wanted to free Jesus, and none of the Pharisees nor Saduccess said or showed any desire to arrest any of the disciples. That was clear when Peter cut off the ear upon Jesus' arrest. They point out that Peter denies him- but look at all the witnesses to his cutting of the ear. Why didn't they grab him right there and then? They were specifically after Jesus and Jesus alone. If you read the texts, they said "it's better that one man die than a whole nation". Now what that means, I don't know. But that book is a rabbit hole that goes far beyond the simple church narrative.

@Herschel1738

27 күн бұрын

The only disciple who was at the crucifixion was John, the beloved disciple. Jesus handed the care of Mary over to him before He died. I agree that the other disciples probably fled or went into hiding to prevent being arrested as part of Jesus' insurrection plot. John 19:39-42 say that Joseph of Arimathea claimed the body & placed it in the tomb. Nicodemus helped him to prepare the body, by wrapping it in clean linen and anointing it with 75 lbs of spices. This means there was no disciples there to witness any events after Jesus death, until he appeared to them 3 days later.

@user-ud9ep6ym7r

11 күн бұрын

Sounds like something you would do.

37:00 it's amazing to hear Dr Ehrman talking about how he adopted a view that goes against the consensus and the authority of his peers, based on evidence and yet he continues in his public career to openly mock those who want to discuss the hypothesis that Jesus was a made up literary character, and he does so using nothing more than arguments from consensus and from authority! This kind of thing is why people accuse Dr Ehrman of being inconsistent. It isn't, as he claims, because he says things in a less detailed way in his popular books than he does in his academic books.

@integrationalpolytheism

28 күн бұрын

Even his explanation (37:30) for why most scholars sleepwalk into accepting the consensus mirrors exactly the reasons (which Dr Ehrman rejects) that scholars sleepwalk into the consensus on the hypothesis that Jesus was entirely mythical. It's bizarre to see this cognitive dissonance so openly displayed.

@erichodge567

28 күн бұрын

What is your best guess as to who first made up the Jesus myth?

@michaeldebellis4202

28 күн бұрын

I’ve heard plenty of “new atheists” mock and belittle Dr. Ehrman. I’ve never seen him be disrespectful in any debate, nor in any of his writings. He always attacks the arguments not the person making them as does any good scholar. Btw, I’m an “old atheist”. I was an atheist before it got trendy. I’m more than willing to believe that there never a Jesus and in fact, before reading Ehrman’s work that’s what I believed. But saying an historical Jesus existed in no way means you support that he walked on water or rose from the dead. Anymore than saying you believe Alexander the Great existed means his father was Zeus as is stated by Plutarch, one of the most reliable scholars from Ancient Greece.

@kencreten7308

28 күн бұрын

@@michaeldebellis4202 I agree.

@integrationalpolytheism

28 күн бұрын

@@michaeldebellis4202 so what? I'm not saying that it's the same thing to question miracles as it is to question whether someone was fictional. Also, as for being disrespectful, Dr Ehrman may have MANNERS, but he is frequently disrespectful towards those who want to discuss the hypothesis that Jesus didn't exist in history. He was borderline in his debate with Robert Price some years ago, however what I'm really talking about is the offhand way he always answers questions about Jesus mythicism in interviews, laughing at it like it's idiotic, and dismissing it by claiming that "nobody in academia says that". By saying this, he demotes any scholar who entertains this hypothesis with one sentence, while laughing. Not very respectful. He also ignores the fact that scholars either don't speak about this issue because their job would be at risk, or if they do talk about it, that's the reason they can't get a secure job with a university, and they have to work freelance. So no, manners and decorum are not respect. And that's all Dr Ehrman ever has to offer, by the way. He never addresses the hypothesis directly, he doesn't talk about the evidence, he just laughs at people who raise this, and he dismisses them with appeals to consensus and authority, and ad hominems. That's why I found this section so ironic this week, to hear him suddenly on the other side of a hypothesis, defending himself against the exact same arguments that he himself makes on another, equally valid, topic.

5:18 is where the academic stuff starts

I love you Dr. Ehrman, and Megan is a treasure.

I've got no real stake in this, but if the gospels were written for people in the roman empire, wouldn't the audience point out that Romans didn't bury their crucified people?

@MrVariousCrap

13 күн бұрын

Their audience were Christians who wanted to believe it.

I kinda love the small talk intros. 🥰

@jamesmccarthy3198

28 күн бұрын

That's the part I hate! I don't give a flying you-know-what about their personal lives!

@stephanieparker1250

28 күн бұрын

@@jamesmccarthy3198 fortunately, YT features a fast forward button for folks who don’t like that. Normally I’m like you with this opinion but for some reason I really like the small talk on these videos. I like getting to know people, though, so that’s probably why.

Deuteronomy 34:6 He buried him in the valley in the land of Moʹab, opposite Beth-peʹor, and nobody knows where his grave is down to this day. God took care of Moses' body as he did Jesus'

@harveywabbit9541

26 күн бұрын

After the children of Israel had avenged themselves of the Midianites, and captured their young virgins for future use, Moses was "gathered unto his people" (Num. 31.2), i.e., leaving the Sun, "he went and returned, and dwelt" with the Sun - he completed the circle of the zodiac, or year. Having thus looked upon the Promised Land (summer), Moses died, and buried himself in a valley in the land of Moab (water-father = Aquarius = Moses), "but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day" (Deut. 34.6). Although one hundred and twenty years old, " his eyes," it is said, " were not dim (his stars shine as brightly now as they did then), nor his natural force abated (the rainy season still comes on every year) " However, the people wept thirty days, i.e., during the passage of the Sun through Aquarius, the Wash-pot (Ps 60.8), or the rainy month of January.

@peteralleyman1945

26 күн бұрын

Other similarity: Moses never existed.

@harveywabbit9541

26 күн бұрын

@@peteralleyman1945 Moses is a man with a water pitcher and he has many names. Once upon a time, the supreme god of the bible, ZEUS, saw Moses as a most beautiful and desirable boy. He so so love smitten that he turned himself into an Eagle (Aquila) and carried young Moses (aka Shinar) to Mount Sinai. Moses became the royal cupbearer to the gods and he became their favorite boy-toy. Naturally one of his names was Ganymede. You will find Zeus as the Eagle, in Exodus 19.4. Oh! By the way, the biblical Shinar means boy-Sun. The Shin is from Shan (the sun) and Nar is from Naar (boy).

@jimjuri6490

25 күн бұрын

@@harveywabbit9541 : You really don't expect me to respond to these wild unsubstantiated theories do you. According to one's theory, no actual person existed as shown in history books.

@harveywabbit9541

25 күн бұрын

@@jimjuri6490 Moses never was.

7:46 this idea of communication fits better in my understanding of “spirit”, good insight.

Now read the empty tomb scene in the Ancient Greek novel “Callirhoe”. Reminiscent of anything? And while you are delving into ancient literature, read the story of Cleomenes, noting his last meal with his twelve followers just before his death.

Jesus is almost like Polynesis, from Sophocle play Antigone, Strange! Very good play! One of my favorite Greek Theaters!

Thank you.

Am i the only person here who was reminded of the 1980 film "Moscow does not believe in tears" when Megan was recommending an academic library as a place to find a mate?

@John.Flower.Productions

29 күн бұрын

Is that where she found her homosexual/atheist/doctor(ate) husband? Not that there is anything wrong with that; it actually seems somewhat fitting for a queer/Christian/dropout.

@MossyMozart

29 күн бұрын

@drbulbul - I don't know that film, but I know a great place NOT to meet a mate - any bar whatsoever!

@vixendoe6943

28 күн бұрын

I was always told as a kid the best places to find a mate was the grocery store, church or the library. Love happens where it happens.

@tangerinetangerine4400

21 күн бұрын

How do you know he's gay? ​@@John.Flower.Productions

@John.Flower.Productions

21 күн бұрын

@@tangerinetangerine4400 That is what she has publically stated.

Very interesting ❤ im going to get my favorite chair and tune in. Even as a heathen and philosopher i love the words of an agnostic 😅

@majafleur9646

29 күн бұрын

Even as a devout believer and philosopher, I love the words of a good agnostic :).

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

We also have the Pagan/Christian Trinity. The origin of the Trinity is obvious to anyone who will observe the daily manifestations of the sun. This orb, being the symbol of all Light, has three distinct phases: rising, midday, and setting. The philosophers therefore divided the life of all things into three distinct parts: growth, maturity, and decay. Between the twilight of dawn and the twilight of evening is the high noon of resplendent glory. God the Father, the Creator of the world, is symbolized by the dawn. His color is blue, because the sun rising in the morning is veiled in blue mist. God the Son he Illuminating One sent to bear witness of His Father before all the worlds, is the celestial globe at noonday, radiant and magnificent, the maned Lion of Judah, the Golden-haired Savior of the World. Yellow is His color and His power is without end. God the Holy Ghost is the sunset phase, when the orb of day, robed in flaming red, rests for a moment upon the horizon line and then vanishes into the darkness of the night to wandering the lower worlds and later rise again triumphant from the embrace of darkness. The Holy Spirit of night/winter is symboled by Jonah aka spelled IUno = Juno (Air) and her favorite birdie, is the Dove. The dove being a migratory birdie, like the Sun, goes south for the winter and north for the summer. She will return in the spring, bringing warm air.

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

I'm quite sure his dedicated followers who definitely have buried him.

@declankelly9829

8 күн бұрын

Only "quite" sure?

I find myself confused because in my mind there is a world of difference between 'being buried' and 'being placed in a tomb'. They are not the same thing. I can't understand how there can be an 'empty tomb' if someone is actually buried. To me, buried means placed in a hole which is then filled with dirt. As in most things, it is essential to fully define terms if one wants to avoid confusion or misinterpreted. So the key question here is what actually happened to his body?

My husband and I met when we both worked at a bookstore. We've been married 34 years this June. Wasn't there a question about the term Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for Jesus' body being different than the term Pilate referred to the body?

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

Joseph, a rich man from Arimathea (Earth at the end of summer) now put in his appearance. He went straight to Pilate and demanded the Savior’s body. Joseph being a just man, like Noah, Pilate (Sagittarius) gave him the body. The legs were not broken; how fortunate, as without legs the Savior could not have resurrected himself. The soldiers had pierced his side with a spear (they knew better, but it was done that the Scripture might be fulfilled), and “forthwith there came out blood and water” (wine-making). Joseph (the Earth) took the body and wrapped it in “clean linen” (emblem of the Earth), and laid it in a new tomb (winter) and departed.-Mat. 27:60. The two Marys sat opposite him (Sun in Virgo), all this time and took notes up to the end of the sixth hour (month). Here his God, Aries, or the Ram forsook him; for they heard him cry with a loud voice: -ELI, ELI, lama Sabachthani, i.e., literally in English, “my Ram, my Ram, why hast thou forsaken me?” The Ram forsakes the Sun every fall, getting behind the Earth in the night hemisphere. From the sixth hour (month) until the ninth hour (month), there was darkness-from the fall equinox to the winter solstice. At the Sixth hour, the Savior gave up the Ghost, or, summer wind, i.e., the monsoon changed. The third hour (actually Hora) = summer solstice. The sixth hour = autumn equinox. The ninth hour = winter solstice. The 12th hour = the savior at the spring equinox.

thanks

Megan, what brand and color lipstick do you have on?

@JustReed

28 күн бұрын

She's looking nice. Alive and vibrant!

All those poor crucifixion people! Now that the episode is over, I can unclench my teeth.

@michaeldebellis4202

28 күн бұрын

Same. It makes my skin crawl hearing those awful details

Fantastic video! It never even occurred to me to wonder about what happened to the corpse. Truly fascinating!

I think it was a miss to not ask "Where even is Arimathea?" Who is this person who supposedly comes from that place and what is the possibility that HE was even a real person?

Great glasses.

I had read that crucifixions were on poles and that the cross depiction came from early artists paintings

@bubbles581

28 күн бұрын

This is what jahovas witnesses teach. I'm not sure of any other sources for that.

@robertdargan1113

28 күн бұрын

Interesting because the original greek word translated as "cross" by christians can be used for a tree, log, stick, plank or any large piece of wood. So a pole is possible.

@RandallChase1

27 күн бұрын

That is a mistranslation popularized by JW’s but not historically accurate.

My impression is that most historians are pretty dismissive of the hypothesis that the “resurrection” may be explained simply by Jesus having survived crucifixion and been buried alive but unconscious, derided as the “swoon theory.” But if he really had been taken down after just half a day, when people sometimes took a couple days to die, would that idea become somewhat less implausible?

@TankUni

28 күн бұрын

If Jesus was 'scourged' by the Romans the night before, it seems to me that could explain an early death on the cross. It might also have been that he wasn't a very physically strong individual to begin with, which might have been a component of his apparently more developed and pacifistic philosophy than other would-be messiahs of the time.

@Jackal_El_Lobo34

28 күн бұрын

@@TankUniAlso I’m not sure if this idea has been debunked or is even plausible but someone was telling me that the likely reason why Jesus chest spewed water after a Roman impaled him with a spear was because he had pneumonia which could’ve been a contributing factor to his death assuming that part isn’t legendary.

@getasimbe

28 күн бұрын

@@Jackal_El_Lobo34 I suspect that part is probably legendary

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

@normative

21 күн бұрын

@@Jackal_El_Lobo34 That part is almost certainly legendary. Beyond being implausible on face, it doesn't show up until John, some 60 years after the fact, and has a fairly clear symbolic significance. There's no need to cast around for naturalistic explanations of that one.

Where do you think the story of Jposeph of Arimathea come from? If its not a historical memory was it added for rhetorical purposes? What might those purposes have been?

Never associated Maryland with hot temps. Atlanta can be quite pleasant but Northern Virginia gets downright cold.

Very interesting indeed.

Did "Arimethea" actually exist? Is it another Nazareth?

There is an enigmatic saying in Mark and Matthew "Where the body is, there the vultures/eagles will gather." Is that about crucifixion?

@majafleur9646

29 күн бұрын

It's about the nature of creation.

Which big crowd received Jesus as a King into Jerusalem and which big crowd shouted crucify Him!!! Which big crowd did the Roman not want to offend by leaving Jesus on the cross? These look like different crowds who could not be in the same place.

@harveywabbit9541

6 сағат бұрын

The King Jesus rides the mare and her foal (two stars in Cancer constellation) into Jerusalem aka the summer solstice in Cancer. Jesus is placed on the cross at the summer solstice (3rd Hora) and he croaks at the sun's descent below the autumn equinox (6th Hora) aka the crucifixion in Egypt.

If you believe that a sign was put up I think it makes it very difficult to believe that a body which clearly was meant to be made an example of in a special way on top of already being a method prone to display would be released for burial immediately.

@robinharwood5044

27 күн бұрын

Excellent point!

The other thing I've noticed is that in general the burial linen is spoken about as being strips of cloth and maybe a separate piece for the head. This seems to deviate from the turin shroud .

What role did the family of a crucified person have in the disposal/burial of the body?

I haven’t listened yet but I can already tell this episode is going to ruffle some feathers!

Does Mark have an "empty" tomb story though? At no point in the burial passage or in the one when the women go to the tomb on Sunday morning does the gospel say that it was empty (or that it was found empty by the women) and it also doesn't describe the tomb as one in which no one had been laid. Matthew is the first one to mention that the tomb was new, then Luke says that no one had yet been laid, then John says both things. So couldn't Mark be speaking of a tomb where there might have been other ossuaries already?

@MrMortal_Ra

29 күн бұрын

“As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed. 6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed; you are looking for Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Look, there is the place they laid him.” Mark has the women go to the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, and has the body of Jesus missing.

@Allothersweretakenn

29 күн бұрын

It does not say it directly, but it implies it by saying Jesus is not here and this is where they laid him

Can you imagine, asking roman guards after the crucifixion, can I have my god back please?

@MrMortal_Ra

29 күн бұрын

Just for the fun of it: “Sir…. Sir…. Sir…. Sir….. c.. c.. can we have the body of our Lord? Roman guard: 😂😂 “your funny man, good one”.

@harveywabbit9541

29 күн бұрын

He would have said, sure, he is that big ball of fire in the sky.

@he1ar1

29 күн бұрын

The guards were bribed. The Christian counter denial narrative is in the bible.

After all these years, I am still confused as to what is meant by, "Jesus was raised from the dead," or "Jesus resurrected." I get what that is supposed to mean, but I do not understand how it would have physically gone down. Assuming Jesus was laid in a tomb and the tomb was later found empty, does that constitute the claim, "Jesus resurrected"? Was it the fact that Jesus later walked with certain people? Like took a walk on ye ol' dirt road? Or did people see him float away like the Wizard of Oz? (I don't necessarily accept the assumptions implicit in my questions/statements. They are there for the sake of understanding what some mean when they say that Jesus resurrected.) And thank you to the interviewer for asking such good questions.

This is something I’ve been curious about: So, when Christ died, the temple curtain tore in two. The world went dark for three hours in Jerusalem. And *dead people resurrected from their graves,* according to Matthew 27:52. Was none of this remarkable at all for anyone there who wasn’t a disciple? Maybe the very same people in the crowds that wanted Jesus crucified and made fun of him as he died? Maybe it’s because I’m an adult now, but I’ve realized something: Aside from the miracles, the only thing that amazes me more is that the locals in Jerusalem pretty much went “meh” in response to the dead people getting resurrected, and the temple curtain tearing in two, and Christ coming back and appearing to his friends many times, until it was time for him to go home. And even his ascension… How many people would’ve seen this one guy-this one guy who they wanted dead-go rising up into the air like a rocket, and that didn’t convince them of anything? They didn’t ask any questions and just went on with their lives, as if nothing had happened?

@garyluciani1082

28 күн бұрын

Well I have an explanation. Noone witnessed these things happening. The only ones who claimed to have been witnesses are his disciples. So people about 2000 years ago felt as I do. They didn't believe these things happened.

@clarkclark5799

27 күн бұрын

Honi the Circle-drawer according to Josephus writes that he died in the days of the Hasmonean civil war, forty years before the birth of Jesus. A legend in the Talmud (Taanit 23A) states that 70 years after his death he awoke and emerged. No one believed that he was Honi so finally "became very upset, prayed for mercy, and died." So if you returned years after you died who would believe you? There were of course no photos back then. Here is a text excerpt from the Talmud: Ḥoni sat and ate bread. Sleep overcame him and he slept. A cliff formed around him, and he disappeared from sight and slept for seventy years. When he awoke, he saw a certain man gathering carobs from that tree. Ḥoni said to him: Are you the one who planted this tree? The man said to him: I am his son’s son. Ḥoni said to him: I can learn from this that I have slept for seventy years, and indeed he saw that his donkey had sired several herds during those many years. Ḥoni went home and said to the members of the household: Is the son of Ḥoni HaMe’aggel alive? They said to him: His son is no longer with us, but his son’s son is alive. He said to them: I am Ḥoni HaMe’aggel. They did not believe him. He went to the study hall, where he heard the Sages say about one scholar: His halakhot are as enlightening and as clear as in the years of Ḥoni HaMe’aggel, for when Ḥoni HaMe’aggel would enter the study hall he would resolve for the Sages any difficulty they had. Ḥoni said to them: I am he, but they did not believe him and did not pay him proper respect. Ḥoni became very upset, prayed for mercy, and died.

Jesus' body was left to rot on the cross or buried in a mass grave for crucified criminals. The Resurrection story was written to console his followers after his death.

@AlexLightGiver

29 күн бұрын

Lol no😂

@MrMortal_Ra

29 күн бұрын

@@AlexLightGiverI’m genuinely curious to see what your position is and why you think it to be so.

@AlexLightGiver

29 күн бұрын

​@@MrMortal_Rai posted a comment. Lets discuss it

@AlexLightGiver

29 күн бұрын

​​​see my comment. Here's what truly happened to these three divine people. Jesus was entombed in Kashmir India. Mary Magdalene s remains are in a Church in France. Mother Stayed In Pakistan where a town was named after her including a brewery .

@harveywabbit9541

29 күн бұрын

Jesus, the sun, was crucified in Egypt (west/evening) and at Calvary (east/morning).

Something just occurred to me. Since we know in many cases crucified people could last for days before dying, and if the story of Joseph of Arimathea is true, what if Jesus wasn’t dead when he retrieved the body? What if he took him home to see if he could be nursed back to health? He could have hung on for a week or two and then died. Or he may have recovered. I realize this is all improbable, but that would explain the empty tomb.

@chefchaudard3580

28 күн бұрын

Unlikely. The Roman’s had no reason to give up on a crucifixion, which was supposed to teach a lesson to potential troublemakers. Showing a weakness was not in their interest. It is possible that the guards were bribed to give back the body, or Jesus was buried for political reasons, as a show of « good will » for Passover, for example, but he was most likely dead.

@pdyt2009

28 күн бұрын

What about the spear thrust up into his heart?

@davidkeller6156

28 күн бұрын

@@pdyt2009 I recall the spear being thrust into his side.

@davidkeller6156

28 күн бұрын

@@chefchaudard3580 Yes! I was just speculating.

@robinharwood5044

27 күн бұрын

@@pdyt2009 The story is just that the spear was stuck into his side, not his heart. And the blood and water sound more theological than real. Probably just an additional made up detail.

Big problem is the lack of any contemporary corroboration. If the Romans violated their own procedure to allow the same-day burial of a crucified criminal, that would probably require special orders, perhaps from a provincial governor, making it more noteworthy. There should be secular records and abundant contemporary discussion of something so unusual... if it ever happened.

Hello Bart Ehrman 👋 I’m from Germany and I would like to know What you think about Paul d. Wegner?

I’m not sure I can agree with Bart on this one. Paul, whose writings appear soonest after Jesus’ crucifixion, claims that Jesus rose three days after he died. For Paul to claim that, and expect his contemporaries to accept it, it doesn’t make sense that Jesus might still be hanging on the cross. He would have to have been taken down from the cross already for the story Paul is telling to be plausible to people of that period.

@MrVariousCrap

13 күн бұрын

You must not have listened to Bart. He talks about that. Paul does not state Jesus was buried the day he died. Only that he rose three days after he was buried.

If Christians are happy to find evidence of a buried crucifixion victim (the ankle bones with an embedded nail) they might have to reconsider the claim that Jesus did not have His leg bones broken. The Laws describing the Passover lamb in Numbers 9:12, say that it must be unblemished and have no bones broken “They shall leave none of it (the lamb) until morning, nor break one of its bones.” As Jesus is claimed to be the Passover lamb, the fact that His legs weren't broken by the Roman soldiers is considered a fulfillment of the "prophecy". I just don't see how you could drive a nail the width of a pencil through a man's wrists & feet (which were lapped on top of each other and with the legs probably flexed together sideways) without breaking any bones.

@harveywabbit9541

26 күн бұрын

Jesus, is the winter sun of five months (Rev 9.5. Scorpio leads Sagittarius thru Pisces). The winter sun "dies" at the pass over from winter to spring. The five iron nails symbol the five signs in Rev. 9.5. Same with the five mice (mice symbol night and winter). See Hebrew Mythology or Science of the Bible, by Milton Woolley.

40:57- (edit) 41:03 i think “Mark” was probably Timothy, someone who was trained by Paul himself. Timothy was probably an educated greek or semitic slave trained to meld his greek understanding to a jewish one. He would’ve known about “homer” and he would’ve known about the jewish scriptures including 1 “Enoch,” the Testament of Abraham, 4 Maccabees, etc.

For anyone interested I would suggest they read Craig Evans' "Jewish Burial Traditions and the Resurrection of Jesus." The Romans respected Jewish customs in peacetime.

I completely agree with Bart’s take on the known practices being what more than likely what happened. Why would the Romans give up the body of the man who claimed to be the King of the Jews. It was bad enough offense that he was crucified for just making such a claim, why would they not want to make this example be any less than say robbers??? They would have more than likely imposed a stricter standard, seeing the claim of being the King of the Jews was not only an offense against Jewish law but an offense against Rome and the Emperor!! A release of the body to a private individual would only allow for a further claim to his claim by saying he resurrected. The resurrection is fiction and is supported by historical evidence whereas resurrection is not.

I would like to know what people think about the Coptic synaxarium? I’ve heard we don’t have anything for the apostles outside of three but I want to know how authentic it is since it has the 12 in there and how they died.

Couldnt the follower of Jesus have stolen the body from the cross at night or something like that?

@chefchaudard3580

28 күн бұрын

This would have been a crime and severely punished. It is unlikely, based on information we have.

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

This look hit a new high, Megan... Thank you both for elucidated knowledge on some of the most enduring questions known to humankind.

33:55 John Dominic Crossan cited

40 years later, is not a long time for someone to remember his death and what happened to the body.

@Aaron-cy7oo

9 күн бұрын

True, but Josephus isn't the one remembering back 40 years, he was told about it 40 years later and that doesn't really make it concrete evidence even if it's the best evidence we have

I always imagined that the young man who ran from the garden of Gethsemane naked, was trying to sub in for Jesus's death. In which maybe a look-a-like so prophecy could be fulfilled. Encouraged by the fact his disciples didn't recognize him when he rose again.

@onlyme972

27 күн бұрын

That story looks as if it was lifted from "jesus the Egyptian" who actually recognised the recorded, led his followers in revolt and was found in the garden of gethsemeny at by the Romans, that jesus ran and never seen again.

@inktologist

27 күн бұрын

@@onlyme972 oh the possibilities of what really happened.

One thing that puzzled me about Jesus's burial is that the people telling this story should have been familiar with what Romans did to the bodies of crucified victims. And even if they managed to justify it in their heads, they probably would have been mercilessly mocked by non-Christians for thinking it was true. However, recent events have convinced me that people _will_ believe really weird stuff, even if (especially if?) others mock them for it.

In my travels in the Middle East I found that one can do anything if you pay a large enough bribe. My reading of Roman history suggest this isn't a just a modern attitude. It is not beyond credibility that Joseph of A. paid a bribe to Pilate. I'm not saying this happened, just that it was possible. It does square the circle with the Gospels. Given that the Gospels were written at a time when every reader/listener would have actually witnessed execution by crucifixion. If the burial of a victim never happened in their experience, the burial would have been a "false note" that would likely dissuade them of the truth of the Gospel rather than an argument that would sway them. BTW, I remember watching one of Bart's videos from a decade ago in which he expressed disbelief of Crossan's hypothesis. I've also watched Crossan's videos in which he delved into the evidence that supports his view.

@Eric_01

28 күн бұрын

Ah, if only it said that he paid a bribe, but it doesn't. I see your point, but that becomes the problem with these things. So much conjecture has to be added in order to make most biblical stories even remotely plausible, that you leave the text long behind and just start fan fiction.

@michaelmanning5379

28 күн бұрын

@@Eric_01 Hey, don't get me wrong, a physical resurrection is supernatural and, as such, cannot be proven. Ditto a virgin birth. The burial of Jesus, however, is more than remotely plausible and, as I argued above, not improbable or it wouldn't have been accepted by near contemporaries. Joseph Smith finding and the losing golden tablets but, that's okay, 'cuz he 'members what they said . . . that requires a stupendous level of gullibility. An act of charity, with or without silver passing hands, is not so rare an event to stretch credulity, even if it takes place off-stage.

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

THE RESURRECTION. , The Savior was now (winter) deposited in his tomb. As the Sabbath (winter) was nearing its end, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre, bringing sweet spices (the spring flowers) with them. They found the stone rolled away, i.e., it was spring. Mary ran to Peter (Aries) and told him the Savior's body wasn't in the tomb (winter). Peter, of course, was badly scared, and ran off with another disciple (Pisces) but got outrun, the last passing the Sun first. However, both found the “linen clothes” = the Earth. All then went home, i.e., the two sets of constellations (winter and summer) came into position at the spring equinox. Meanwhile “the vail of the temple (intereaspansum templi = the plane of the solstices) was rent (scissum est = was divided) from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake (mota est = was moved, i.e., over the equinoctial line); and the rocks were rent” by the dissolving frosts. The graves were opened, i.e., the winter was past, and “many saints” (summer constellations) which slept (in the dark hemisphere) arose, and appeared to many, i.e., to such as understood the riddle. Mary stood without, at the sepulchre,” weeping (the latter rain); and as she wept, she stooped down (went below the equator), and, looking, saw two angels in white (the light of spring), sitting, one (Aries) at the head, and the other (Pisces) at the feet (see your almanac), where the body of Jesus had lain. “Why weepest thou?” said the angels. Because, said Mary, I cannot find my Lord. Being a night constellation, she couldn't see the Sun. Turning back just then (Lot's wife looked back), she saw Jesus standing, but didn't know him. He addressed her, when, turning again, she knew him (but didn't see him), and exclaimed Rabboni (My great one). Jesus said, “touch me not;” for I am not ascended to my Father (the Holy Ghost). The Sun and Virgo don’t come in conjunction until the end of the summer. Hence in the spring Jesus said to her: “touch me not;” “but go and tell my brethren that I ascend unto my father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (Sun entered Aries). * Why did Mary stand without the sepulchre? Because, being a summer constellation, she was obliged to share the lot of God, or Aries, her leader. Night or day, winter or Summer, she is always with the Lord, though she is not always able to see him. Hence the mutual love each bore the other. Of all this Mary duly informed the disciples. On the evening of the first day (month) of the week (the seven summer months), Jesus stood in the midst, i.e., at the spring equinox, and said: - “Peace be unto you,” i.e., let summer come. The disciples were glad to see their Lord (the summer Sun). So, Jesus repeated: - “Peace be unto you.” He then breathed on them, and said: - “Receive ye the Holy Ghost” = the summer wind. This Holy Ghost, by the way, was a terrible fellow. Of him it is said: - “Whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him; neither in this world (year), nor in the world (year) to come.” “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven, but this against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”-Mat. 12: 31, 32. Why, Christian? Tell me why? This has been the great stumbling block to both Christians, and Anti-Christians; none being able to resolve it. The Holy Ghost is the summer wind. Now, if you don’t get in and raise a crop during summer, you commit a sin against the Holy Ghost, which will not be forgiven during this year or any subsequent one. “Time once past never returns.” All right. After these things, i.e., after the summer was past, Jesus showed himself to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias. Here, with Simon Peter and others, he entered a ship (Noah's ark). This was at night (winter). During “that night they caught nothing.” In the morning (spring), Jesus stood on the shore; but his disciples didn’t as yet know him-the time being between winter and summer. But Jesus asked: - “Have ye any meat?” No; * answered they. “Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.” They were in luck; for, Simon Peter drew the net, and caught 153 big fishes and didn’t break his net, i.e., the year was completed and whole. Simon (Pisces) denoted the fishing season, and the 153 big fishes doubtless referred to the number of days in the winter months just past, counting in February at 29 days and adding one extreme as was customary. * At the end of winter, savages usually lacked food.

@michaelmanning5379

27 күн бұрын

@@harveywabbit9541 'cuz nothing convinces people of your position so much as a long, rambling post pertaining to nothing under discussion. Pooka - a figure from Celtic mythology, often taking the form of a large animal. Appearing to this one and that one. Fond of crackpots, rumpots and how are you Mr. Wilson.

@harveywabbit9541

27 күн бұрын

@@michaelmanning5379 Jesus is aka Satan. Remember where he was called Beelzebub?

I had always heard that priestly positions in ancient Judaism were inherited and wondered if since Jesus’s brother James was a high priest, if Jesus actually came from a priestly family. It seems unlikely that both brothers would have had so much prominence if they came from an illiterate family from some backwoods town. Jesus even had access to debate the temple priest when he was younger. Could Joseph of Arimathea be Jesus’s father and the carpenter from Nazareth story just be a retcon to fulfill prophecy?

I know a tradition older than Roman customs or Jewish burial practices; “How much will it cost to violate your custom and give me what I want?” The simple truth is we don’t know and from an historical perspective, cannot know. We can only ascribe probability to certain events here.

Why do we think there was an empty tomb, historically? I get the gospel claims later on. But I am asking from a historical perspective.

I find it somewhat disappointing that the historic question of burial gets so quickly coupled with that of an empty tomb, as if we are only interested in confronting apologists. Of course an emptied tomb requires there was some kind of burial, but the opposite is not case. If, as Bart mentions, our oldest account mentions burial (Paul reports the tradition that Jesus was crucified, buried, and resurrected on the third day) but does not mention an empty tomb, then that cannot be the motivation for mentioning burial. The resurrection was of course a central point of the new faith, so no surprise that this is reported, but why mention the burial? It is not impossible that by some rare circumstance the dead body was, against what was to be expected, taken off the cross, and maybe even that this had some connection to stories about resurrection taking hold (and not because of an empty tomb). After all, it would be strange for stories about a resurrection on the third day to arise (regardless of what actually triggered them) if it was publicly known that the corpse had been left hanging on the cross for a week or more.

Listening to this made me wonder about how Jopseph of Arimathia could have even made such a request without any notations of an uproar in the Sanhedrin. It's interesting how so many aspects of this whole story are just taken whole cloth and the contextual elements totally ignored. Let's just say this happend as written for arguments sake. That means the Sanhedrin and the Pharisee just broke a ton of Jewish laws and traditions to go out of their way to have Jesus taken right before Pass Over to go through a procress that would certainly take place during Pass Over. Then after all that, in a mad rush to beat sundown a Pharisee (Joseph) who voted to have Jesus crucified by the Romans (The Sanhedrin vote was unanimous) then went to Pilot on his own to ask for this man they were so hell bent on getting crucified RIGHT NOW be taken down before all typical custom to be place in his own families tomb? Is there any mention in any Biblical text or gospel about outrage in the Sanhedrin? Was Joseph punished? Admonished? Thrown out of the Sanhedrin? He couldn't have gone to pilot or had Jesus taken down or put in his own families tomb without the Sanhedrin knowing? The writers of the Gospels can record a private utterance of Pilot about "washing his hands" that no one relevant to the story could have heard but they don't record him asking Joseph if he's mad for asking for Jesus's body just hours after they strung him despite everything they did to get him up there? There's no kerfuffle recorded at all. It's just all so contrived that it boggles the mind how this is just swallowed by so my people without ever questioning it. Side note: Bart I'm curious why when asked if Joseph of Arimathea was a literary contrivance why you didn't mention that it's widely contested if Arimathea even exisits at all and that Arimathea literally translates into "The Best Deciple". That seems pretty relevant to the question.

Josephus mentiones that he obtained from the future emperor Titus that an aquaintance or friend of him be taken down from the cross on his request for mercy.

I read rotting on the cross was part of the punishment.

❤❤❤

Thanks. I understand that the germinal idea that jesus was resurrected came about from one or two disciples having bereavement hallucinations. I feel like bereavement hallucinations would have been harder to sustain if they'd witnessed their master slowly decomposing. Thoughts?

@normative

21 күн бұрын

Why would we think they stuck around in Jerusalem after the execution of their leader? The actual resurrection appearances (on some of the accounts) happened back in Galilee.

@mikeharrison1868

21 күн бұрын

@@normative Good point.

Who saw him crucified? None of his disciples were there and the women were far away. No mention in history. Is the mention in Josephus , an insertion? Bart has a belief, crucifixion of Jesus.

@harveywabbit9541

25 күн бұрын

The sun is not crucified. Jesus is crossified as he descends below the equator. He is crossified again as the ascends above the equator. The descent is the crossification in Egypt and the ascent is the crossification at Calvary (place of the skull).

In Lubbock Texas, in 1912, a man was executed by being burned at the stake. The local railway sold excursion tickets. They had to provide three extra trains.

why are things done every 3, 7 or 12 regarding timeframe?

That lady has the most amazing voice ❤

If roman Court found someone innocent of a crime, do they convict such based on people demand. This sound strange to me

@harveywabbit9541

25 күн бұрын

Jesus, is another mythical sun character. As the spring sun, he is the Messiah aka Mess (son of) + iah (Jupiter). Another example is Rameses aka meses (son of) Ra (the sun). We also have Thothmoses which = son of Thoth = son of Mercury..

As soon as he gave up the ghost he was taken down from the cross and placed in the tomb, 1st day. Then 2nd day went down to hell with all his believer's sins, and rose again the 3rd day. Good Friday, Saturday, and Easter Sunday. The three days.

@skaterdavedownsouth

16 күн бұрын

That’s a day and a half.

I don't know what to make of Bart's claim (39:48) that [in the canonical gospels] the empty tomb is never reported as evidence for Jesus's resurrection. It is not complete proof, for sure, but in Mark and Matthew we first get an assertion of resurrection, by someone whose credentials range from having a white robe to being an angel descending from heaven accompanied by an earthquake (don't they ever learn how to make a soft landing?), followed by "look, the place is empty"; I would call that using the emptiness of the grave as supporting evidence for the resurrection claim. In Luke and John it is a bit different, and the grave is found empty _before_ any resurrection is announced, but I'd still say the former occurs in the narrative to add credence to the latter,

@harveywabbit9541

6 сағат бұрын

Tomb and Womb are the same thing. The sun rises from below to above at the crossing of the spring equinox. On Easter Sun Rise, we face the East and say "He is Risen."

The burial of crucified people was not common praxis, but there are several bones found of crucified bodies.

ANNNND .... HERE WE GO!

@MrMortal_Ra

29 күн бұрын

What…..?

I have a good thought here, i think bart is wrong because the point of the crucifiction Szenario is not what has happened to the body but that he is risen. So if they made this up they could have write that jesus was left hanging on the cross etc but later appeared to them anyway because its alot of crazy things written either way. No point about making this complex Szenario up...but it seems all the writers from the 4 gospels are not understanding this also like bart said, so to me this story seem to be very authentic. Sorry for my bad english

@Eric_01

28 күн бұрын

I have trouble finding a compelling argument in "if they made this up they could have..." That really is nothing more than an exercise in creative differences.

@Horvat04

28 күн бұрын

@@Eric_01 we are talking historical evidence, so..what are you talking about?

@Horvat04

28 күн бұрын

@@Eric_01 if thats your only thought reading my text man o man...this only showes how biased you look at all this nothing more, you dont even use your head it seems. Use your head my boy

My pre-episode opinion is that Jesus was probably placed in a pauper’s grave, and the legends of his burial are just that. Let’s see what happens.

Our Christian culture binds us to think to Jesus as some kind of special man but to the Romans, to Pontius Pilate, Jesus was just like many other insurretionists who clamed to be the king of Israel. In Pilate's eys Jesus wasn't special, he was just another criminal. That's why many people are offended at the idea that Jesus' body wasn't properly buried but rather left on the cross to decompose.

@edwardadelman5360

26 күн бұрын

Pilate didnt think Jesus was a criminal.He said he "found no fault in this innocent man"

@alessiorando100

26 күн бұрын

@@edwardadelman5360 prove this from a historical perspective

You're really treading on people's toes, denying the empty tomb. Ouch!!!

What religion were the Romans at the time?