And we are back to different stones being more suited to different steels....maddening!

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I’m looking forward to testing individual steels and trying to put some of this to rest by finding out which stones actually work best for types of steel. Gotta get through this preliminary testing first though.

@wadejensen3301

Жыл бұрын

@The Home Slice I'm looking forward to that Gabe...

Did you ever get a digital microscope? Just the ticket for investigating puzzling edge behaviour. Interesting work as always, thanks.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Mike! No, I still need to. I am sure it would help - hopefully soon.

@geraldkoth654

Жыл бұрын

Best 34 bucks I ever spent.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

What model of scope did you guys get?

I FIND IF YOU JUST MULTIPLY VENEV GRIT BY 3 YOU WILL GET WHAT IT IS IN OUR GRIT RATING OR ATLEAST ABOUT, IF ITS A 400 ITS ABOUT 1200 GRIT

@8thsinner

Жыл бұрын

Nice trick bud

@_BLANK_BLANK

Жыл бұрын

I think its more like ad 1/3 the number to it. Because the fepa f400, is supposed to be a jis 600. The 240 side is about 350 or so jis. Well, then you get to the 1200 grit which is supposed to be around 3000-4000 grit, which matches the multiply by 3 thing, and the 2000 grit which is supposed to be around 8000 grit. So thats multiplied times 4.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Jerad! Good general estimating trick!

@geraldkoth654

Жыл бұрын

The Venevs have the micron equivalent on the stone itself. That and a table of the various grit "sizes" in standards with the actual grit size in microns makes cross reference easy. The lowest Venev grits are almost the same as the Japanese stone ratings. Then the curve seems to go logarithmic. digphoto.net/images/GritSizes.jpg

@_BLANK_BLANK

Жыл бұрын

@@geraldkoth654 yeah pretty much.

First i thought i was watching the video backwards haha I think you're right about the wire edge and loosing that, but keeping an edge. Only logic explanation i can think of. Thanks Gabe have a great weekend.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Jeroen! Hope the New Year is treating you well!

@jeroenvoss6231

Жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening As i hope it does you Gabe

I've only just got venevs set, and like them for progressive work on k390, the 2/3 micron on the 1200f leaves a superior edge to the three micron suf ceramic. The crispness of the edge and uniformity is surprising and I'm happy with them. But I wouldn't go so low as a final grit, especially on cheap steels. Their middle range would probably deliver better.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, you’re probably right about softer steels not benefitting from going so low. I’m excited to try harder steel with them.

My guess would be the edge wasn’t properly deburred causing the burr or foil edge to first roll over then get torn off

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, my later tests which will be published in the next couple months would indicate that you are right!

I use the Venev Ursa stones in a fixed angle jig. Looking at the edge under a microscope and feeling carefully, the 1200 (3/2 micron) leaves a very fine burr. Every progression with the Venev stones leaves a very consistent finer and finer burr. The Ursa are only loaded with 40% of the diamonds used in the Large Plates and The Orions. Not sure what is in the Centaurs. I then strop on 1 micron Venev diamond paste on the rough side of leather and finally with .5 micron Venev on the smooth side of leather. There is then no evidence of any burr along the edge. Slices Bounty Paper towel easily. Bounty is very soft. 14C28N with a 20 degree angle and S35VN with a 17 degree angle. I will soon have a MagnaCut and will see how that sharpens. IMHO if I were actually wanting to cut that Hawser you have, I would go to a serated knife or a fine saw. I know you are using it for its abrasiveness. The problem with the ropes are they are natural materials and can have various undetermined inclusions. Same with cardboard etc. Perhaps just using the card stock that is used in a CATRA machine manually duplicating its automated sequence could give consistent results. A cross slide with a weight on top, the stack of card stock, and a knife edge side up on a sliding carriage. Move the knife with the carriage whatever number of strokes you would like per attempt with BESS measurements in between. In looking at the various levels of the BESS only the industrial has a reasonable repeatability. The lowest level one (Home $125) has a granularity of 25 grams. Not expressed in +/- range so I would assume the reading you get may be from X to X plus 50. The next level (Professional $170) is 5 grams so X to X + 10. And finally the best (Industrial $242) is 1 gram or X to X plus 2. It is very difficult to do comparisons when you are making Meaments. Meamenst are measurements with the Sure taken out. With the best of calibration labs, expensive instruments, controlled environments, etc most "Tests" have results that may be as good as 90% (determined by experimental analysis). Most are from about 60% to 80%. Many repetitions and statistical analysis can help to make the results at least comparable with the same setup.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback Gerald, I value it. I think you are correct about many variables making the data a little varied. I could never replace Larrin Thomas & others producing data of unparalleled clarity with Catra, nor do I aim to. I do face the challenge that no one is testing my style of edge (dual grit), and I'd like to have some rough idea of how much/whether it makes a difference. I generally like the rope because it gives some advantage to aggressive edges, which I prefer anyway, but I can understand your concern over inclusions. Anyway, hope that makes sense - all good if it's not your cup o tea, but I'm going to try to see if there are any edge differences that are clear even with "Meaments" 😆 Have a good day.

@geraldkoth654

Жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening Perhaps a few reams of printer paper. Use a full package and start working one edge of the stack at one inch from a corner. If it cuts nicely through the stack, move over one inch rinse and repeat. You would get many many cut paths in a media that is probably very consistent. If you had a method to cut the stack in half lengthwise you would get two more edges to work on.

Sometimes I think I have discovered the holy grail of knife sharpening, but unfortunately I am soon overtaken by the harsh reality. The last week I had received 11 blades from an assisted living agency. At first I thought to set up a production line to get the blades sharp. But that failed right away. Every knife needs the love and attention to get the maximum sharpness out of the knife. Because all blades were about the same (1 euro blades), I was able to try out different techniques, even to sharpen a knife with 1 stone. The sharpness of the blades were between 98 and 128 BESS. The most important thing I discovered this time is that a knife needs more love with the higher grit stones.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I often make that mistake - getting in a rush sharpening my own personal knives. You have to really slow down and feel the edge intuitively to get the best edge!

Good initial sharpness but low durability matches the pattern I told you before. Diamond break carbides and reduce durability. Initial sharpness may or may not be affected by carbide rupture. How it stops cutting despite having a relatively keen edge makes no sense to me. No idea about that.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Yeah - that’s a puzzle. I know an edge that bends will register slightly higher (IE overly thinned, or a wire edge) because of the edge flexing under the wire. I wonder if the BESS reading got better because it rounded out/wore away the thin part of the edge, but it was more rigid, even though the slightly rounded apex would not sever rope fibers?

@thiago.assumpcao

Жыл бұрын

​@@homeslicesharpening After your 250 EZE lap test I got an idea. Edge aggression plays a very import role in rope cutting. BESS checks for keenness but not aggression. 300BESS with smooth edge will be dull while 400 BESS with decent aggression will cut well. If you still have those knives the way they ended you can check if my theory matches with 3 finger test from Murray Carter. There seems to be an overall bad trend with diamond stones and the 250 plate defies that. I wonder if the extra aggression from very coarse edge outweighs carbide rupture or if there is something else. I remember a video where someone tested a Resin bonded diamond stone and it was actually aluminum oxide. If you have a 50-200 X microscope you could check if grit matches description and if its real diamond. Using microscope I got several surprises. For example, I have a 220 grit hard stone that leaves a smoother edge than a 320 grit soft stone. My theory was because of abrasive rounding on the 220 but using microscope turns out the 220 has finer abrasive than the 320 and its a manufacture mislabel. Another example, Solingen diamond paste on strop usually has a relative grit around 8K. Everyone says the particles are 1,5 micron but actually it has 7-14 micron particles. I got same weird behavior with another paste, Jacaré Brown paste has 10-50 micron particles, stones with particle this size would be a 320 grit but using on strop the relative grit is around 6K. While brown paste probably not and ideal way to get a 6K the result is quite interesting anyways. Since you are doing some science I bet you would enjoy playing with a microscope. Even cheap microscopes give us a ton of info.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

@@thiago.assumpcao yeah, I need to invest in one!

@BladeLabMiami

Жыл бұрын

I don't think that would be the case here, because even India stones will break chromium carbides. The difference comes with high vanadium blades, where diamonds will fracture carbides but alox and sic won't.

@thiago.assumpcao

Жыл бұрын

@@BladeLabMiami Where did you see India stones breaking chromium carbides?

I have a brand new set of edge pro diamond matrix stones if you want to try them if so let me know

@homeslicesharpening

27 күн бұрын

That is super generous! Thank you for the offer! I am about to go on an extended trip back to the States, and have a pretty heavy back-log of videos to do. I would hate to deprive you of your new stones for an extended period of time. Maybe you can break them in, and give me your thoughts in a future video? Then I may be in a place to try the matrix stones. I also must admit, I have had good results with the Venev 400 in this video with higher carbon steels, so the Victorinox knife may just have been too soft. Let me know your thoughts. And thanks again.

@Pch100

27 күн бұрын

@homeslicesharpening not a problem 👌

@homeslicesharpening

22 күн бұрын

Thanks anyway, I really do feel honored, just want to catch up and operate in healthy limits you know. All the best.

I dunno if Venev are good stone choice for simple stainless or carbon steels. You don't need diamonds for them, that's part of the appeal of say Sandvik or Aeb-l is that any stone can sharpen them easily. I use my Venev more for touch ups, a few passes on 800(I don't think 400 is a good choice as a finishing stone, but maybe that's just me) and then either 3K Ruby or 5/3 micron diamond paste on balsa. But that's for s30v class an up. Sandvik just gets the 3K Ruby and it's back to being a razor. For diamond water stones I prefer the edge pro matrix over Venev. They used to be more expensive but with the political climate the Venev are as expensive if not more. Imo you get a better, cleaner edge from them. Maybe not quite as aggressive as Venev but I think it lasts longer but that's just anecdotal evidence probably. Keep up the great work my friend.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Interesting!!! Thanks for the feedback bro - I will have to see what I observe as well. So far my experiences are very similar. Good to hear from you my friend!

@D00MTR33

Жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening I'm looking forward to you testing other, more wear resistant steels sometime. On thick rope like that it's hard to see a huge difference on simple steels like victorinox knives. It'll be interesting to see how steels like M4, maxamet, magnacut, m390 and such perform with different edges. Edge angle and finish can have a huge impact on wear resistance and test results. Just making a shallower edge angle/microbevel can have a 10%-25% difference which is as much if not more than steel choice. Though it is hard to have 3 of the same knife like you can with those Vic paring knives and not need to spend a bunch to do it. Always looking forward to whatever you test next. You have such interesting and fun ideas a lot of the time. Making knives fun again. Hope Lazlo and the rest are doing well.

You are perplexed because the wire is being cut in between the teeth that are wearing down because the wire is fitting between each tooth and getting sliced from the fracture of the steel inside the tooth.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

The wire as in the individual rope fibers? Or the wire as in the BESS reading filament? Thanks for your thoughts!

@8thsinner

Жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening I mean the bess filament wire. The rope isn't cutting because the teeth are so fine that the blade is essentially sitting on top of all of the teeth so no individual fibres are getting to the spaces in between the teeth where it is still sharp. You follow?

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

@@8thsinner yeah, that’s an interesting take, thanks for taking the time to explain. I understand what you are saying now. Thanks for the feedback! Cheers.

diamond stone and carbon steel do not go well together.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Interesting! I feel that diamond plated usually work pretty well, but these OCB Diamond water-stones are throwing me some curveballs, don’t know if it’s wrong steel, or poor technique, or something else.

@computeronzin

Жыл бұрын

@@homeslicesharpening I once saw that you damage the carbon compounds with a diamond stone. You break the carbon bond instead of grinding it.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

@@computeronzin Yeah, I have seen some research on that. I didn't anticipate that there were many carbides in the Victorinox steel, so was surprised it made a difference in this steel.

Should look up sisal pronunciation I'd hate to ditch you like Cedric the English speaking Australian who couldn't bother looking up the pronunciation of the word.

@homeslicesharpening

Жыл бұрын

Haha, well I’d be happy to look up the pronunciation out of curiosity alone! Take care Kyle.