@sonorasgirl

4 жыл бұрын

You’re awesome- thanks for the compassionate take on difficult topics.

@E.Hizeman

4 жыл бұрын

You put into words what I couldn’t. So glad I found your channel man 😌

@DidixGil

4 жыл бұрын

You are so amazing. Thank you so much for your words and intelligence!

@miner6ty9er

4 жыл бұрын

Why do you disable likes/dislikes?

@oliverjackson2594

4 жыл бұрын

RIP MY NAME IS EARL LOLLLLL

"perhaps jk rowling is uncancelable, unless she commits some sort of violent crime" chris brown:

@ladygrey4113

4 жыл бұрын

He had fans that said they wanted to be beaten by him

@asharadayne6159

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I feel like Rowling's current supporters would only love her more if she committed a violent act against a trans person.

@johannatrahan6613

4 жыл бұрын

@@asharadayne6159 Wow. That's almost as insane an accusation as the Trumpsters who won't wear masks claiming that covid19 is a librul hoax. I love JK Rowling AND i love my trans nephew, and my gay son's trans BF so don't bother flaming.

@asharadayne6159

4 жыл бұрын

@@johannatrahan6613, but you do at least realize that her current rhetoric has been highly transphobic, right?

@Eli7owls

4 жыл бұрын

Allyson Schuele The majority of her fans are either disappointed with her or choosing to ignore what’s going on. In fact the Harry Potter fandom is mostly very liberal. So maybe it’s easy to lump all her fans in with transphobia when you don’t have a personal connection to the books, but as someone who was literally raised on them, no. I am very pro trans and I am disappointed, I just can’t fully shun the series that my dad read to me as a kid, that I would act out with my friends and that I’ve waited till midnight in the cold to get the last book. I think that’s essentially the case for a lot of people.

I read an article complaining that the left boycotts brands that aren't "woke" enough and that hurts businesses which is ironic since it's a form of free speech. I don't understand why I have to buy a product I don't need from a company who's views I don't agree with when a Christian baker doesnt have to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. Maddening.

@Dorian_sapiens

4 жыл бұрын

The height of irony is that these complaints come from people who'll tell you the really great thing about capitalism is that it incorporates everyone's values, along with their needs and wants, as a result of people's individual choices of what to buy or not buy.

@toadwarnnewt

4 жыл бұрын

Meanwhile we got conservatives burning their shoes

@dwc1964

4 жыл бұрын

The Left aren't large or powerful enough to "boycott" brands for not being "woke" in any effective way, even if we wanted to. And we don't. Because we have no fucks to give about "woke brands." See Hbomberguy's video of that title for a brilliant expression of that. Brands do the "woke" thing because their PR departments see a "trend" in their market demographics that they want to "engage" with - and that is all. The Left has nothing to do with it. We *do* try to boycott companies that mistreat their workers most egregiously (slave labor/wage theft, shitty conditions) and other bad stuff they do - in the actual world - and I'm sure you've never heard of any of those efforts because hardly anyone outside The Left ever does.

@genieglasslamp5028

4 жыл бұрын

People on the right get mad about French fry commercials.

@reaganbartels9993

4 жыл бұрын

@@toadwarnnewt destroying my own property to own the libs.

"Vengeance is stupid ... in the end, no one's actually happier and no one learned anything" Yes, yes, yes Only loosely related, but I wholeheartedly agree with this when it comes to parenting. I didn't fully learn this until I had toddlers. But now that I understand just how much it doesn't work, my relationship with my kids is much better AND they are better behaved and better people.

@WillayG

4 жыл бұрын

Your comment intrigued me. Were you taking vengence on your toddlers?

@littlecorrell

4 жыл бұрын

@@WillayG I spanked them a couple times when they did things that scared me when they turned two. I was spanked as a kid much, much worse than what I did to them, but it still felt a little like taking out my fear and frustration on them. It didn't work anyway, and the look of betrayal afterwards (even though I was very clear what would happen if they disobeyed. It wasn't a surprise) was hard to bear. It didn't really work to stop them anyway, and even the two or three times I did it made them not trust me as much for a while. They would hesitate to come to me with their feelings, or not seek comfort as readily when hurt. It was horrible until the relationship healed.

@californikaitlin

4 жыл бұрын

@@littlecorrell thank you so much for being willing to evaluate your behavior and move forward with what was best for you and your children. You broke a cycle, and that is no easily surpassed obstacle. It's honestly a little cathartic for me to see parents willing to put their own ideals aside and accommodate their kids, so thank you for sharing, too. Good luck to all of you.

@WillayG

4 жыл бұрын

@@littlecorrell Thank you for sharing that. It's really good that you could change like that. What's particularly impressive iis that you don't try to justify your behavior and you're being very honest about how you actually felt in that moment. I hope I can see my own actions when I'm dealing with my daughter (she's only 6 months old yet). Thanks again.

@frocco7125

4 жыл бұрын

"An eye for an eye makes the world go blind."

You have one of the most thoughtful commentary channels! great content my friend

@doodle7342

3 жыл бұрын

I know and it isn't just like "Oh well he said she said" it's actually informative and well though out. He doesn't just make stuff up or turn things petty. He also clearly explains things and provides reasons behind his thoughts.

@Kornknealious

3 жыл бұрын

@@doodle7342 nope

@BlueMonkeySky

3 жыл бұрын

So true. This channel rules!.

I think getting people fired from positions where they can discriminate against people is a good thing. But doing the same to kids who are still in school and have time to learn is not ok.

@Agee1

4 жыл бұрын

Nah I rather have that kid understand the consequences of their actions right now, instead of them going into adulthood with toxic views. I.e. the 12 year old who racially abused and gave death threats to wilfred zaha, was arrested

@ExeErdna

3 жыл бұрын

@@Agee1 They problem is canceling is a scorched earth methodology they MAKE SURE you cannot get better. There will be people legit stalking a kid from the shadows to keep them down. That will only create monsters that will take them down. A Child can learn a lot only if they're allowed to grow properly without growth and reasoning they will fester on the wrongs. It's basically what abused kids deal with you cannot abuse somebody and expect them to be better they can't they won't don't think it will happen.

@user-xr3rb6pn9m

3 жыл бұрын

@@Agee1 if anything, it should have been his parents who needed to be arrested, for bringing a child up like this. Arresting 12-year old children is insane. And no, he won't "understand the consequences of their actions" after being arrested at 12. He's more likely to become a skinhead or something when he grows up.

@lotsofuwuenergy3983

3 жыл бұрын

@@chips1215 I agree, also it's perfect bait for them to double down and COMPLETELY jump to the farthest part of the political spectrum; radicalizing them.

My main concern with cancel culture isn’t outcome, but mentality. Encouraging mob mentality is just a dangerous place to put everyone in as a principal. Great video

@Magnulus76

3 жыл бұрын

I think mob culture is bad but I can certainly understand people wanting to distance themselves from people they perceive as toxic. For instance, it's understandable why some people would find J.K. Rowling's remarks about transpeople highly offensive. Rowling is talking about human beings that are often our friends and family, not people in the abstract only.

@natesmodelsdoodles5403

3 жыл бұрын

@@Magnulus76 Sadly, not every mob is triggered for reasons as understandable as those.

@ursmax

3 жыл бұрын

While the mob mentality is an issue as well, cancel culture would be much less of a problem if the outcome weren't the actual destruction of the taret's socioeconomic existence. Given JK Rowling's wealth that's why it failed with her but there are far too many where it worked.

@charliekahn4205

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe we should just convince the mob to think individually, that being the only mob-mental idea.

@ursmax

3 жыл бұрын

@@macmcskullface1004 Not sure if you're real or plain trolling. If you're real you must have been living under a rock for many years. But maybe you're real. Who knows. Off the top of my head, and this is just the tip of the iceberg natasha tynes shane gillis carson king caroline flack aziz ansari caroline literally comitted suicide after years of bombardment by the mob.

Is funny how this free speech warriors don't defend Brie Larson.

@thecomeric9148

4 жыл бұрын

Wtf did Brie Larson do? Genuinely curious I’ve been a fan of hers since short term 12

@seanhenderson5996

4 жыл бұрын

@@thecomeric9148 A couple of years ago Brie Larson commented that there needs to be greater diversity in the profession of film critics because some times good films that aren't targeted at straight cis white men go unrecognized. This drew a lot of ire from the anti-SJW community.

@AJ-cq5pw

4 жыл бұрын

The people who preach about free speech being under attack are never going to preach about that when it comes to people speaking about diversity, anti-racism, feminism, etc. They just want to be able to say bigoted things without being criticized for it

@isimioyekunlemarktaiwo3643

4 жыл бұрын

They could blast captain marvel but praise the joker for saying the same thing..what a joke these people are.

@thecomeric9148

4 жыл бұрын

Sean Henderson Muh free speech is being infringed because that person is using their free speech

Bottom line is that a sudden swell of outrage can happen for good reasons or bad reasons, and the consequences can be proportionate or disproportionate. People who talk about cancel culture, at best, are saying that to often these days, it's happening for bad reasons or to excess. But framing it as "cancel culture" seems to imply that there are no good reasons or just consequences, which is why the term is worse than useless.

Hypothesis: In real life, we know and love many people with whom we disagree on numerous and meaningful issues, but because we know and love them, we tend to know what we can and can't talk about without triggering an argument. On the internet, however, we are faced by people we neither know nor love, and sometimes they express opinions with which we disagree in numerous and meaningful ways, and we sometimes pour out the venom we've been storing from all the times we've bit our tongues and let things go in our real lives. Generalizations are 100% wrong, of course, so this doesn't explain the whole story. But I do think that it's not necessarily one's own anonymity that drives toxic internet discussions, sometimes it's the mere fact that you don't know the other person; you attack them as though they were the idea you hate rather than a complete human that carries that idea inside them.

@sarahriley2928

4 жыл бұрын

honestly this does make a lot of sense.

@wes4439

4 жыл бұрын

+

@jackaljade

4 жыл бұрын

I feel like I should be quoting the Joker from The Dark Knight, but I don't know the movie that well, so I'm just going to makeup my own... Give people complete freedom to say what they want without any consequences, and you'll soon find that they're tearing out each other's throats. We want freedom, but the reality is we need some controls placed on us for cohesion and harmony. If we think of the internet as an experiment, then it's shown us this. All this is further compounded by the fact that for the first time in human history, people are, en masse, without any kind of religious faith to provide a set of codified morals to unite people and to fall back on. The future for us is looking bleak.

@manzijoel5224

4 жыл бұрын

Yeesssss! So true!

@daniuez401

4 жыл бұрын

The biggest difference with discussing things on the internet and in real life is that on the internet anyone can see it, and in the case of topics that can be triggers we don't know if what we're saying will be seen by someone vulnerable at that topic. In real life we know who are we talking to.

Does anyone else hear the world's smallest violin playing for the rich powerful people with platforms who are for the first time feeling the pressure of dissent?

@robeson1231

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly 👍

@alexandrasmirnova9864

4 жыл бұрын

I try to understand what you mean, but are you sure that it's the very first time for each of them? And their road to success has necessarily been rainbows and unicorns?

@ems3991

4 жыл бұрын

Are you talking about the Black Harper's letter signatories who are being lectured by white people about how they aren't Black enough? The ones who work to help incarcerated people? The Holocaust survivors? The ones who are banned from entire countries on pain of death? The people fired for tweeting facts?

@robeson1231

4 жыл бұрын

Uh oh. Emily's been hitting the crack pipe again.

@genieglasslamp5028

4 жыл бұрын

@@alexandrasmirnova9864 How a person became successful has no bearing on their current actions.

This is classic T1J, calling out the state of public discourse for just being a bunch of people talking past each other. Acknowledging nuance is why I subscribed so many years ago.

@user-hy6cp6xp9f

4 жыл бұрын

Nuance bad

@allinone-qz2gi

4 жыл бұрын

Totally agree!

@SaborSalek

4 жыл бұрын

This is not „nuance“. This is a milquetoast take and just does the „both sides“ argument. Taking some instances where some people are unjustly fired by supposed progressives vs how often right-wingers harass, doxx and actively try to fire people form their jobs is very disturbing.

@EAfirstlast

4 жыл бұрын

Talking past each other is the point. If you can keep the definitions broad and the ideas indistinct, you can take a term in any direction you want to. This is especially prevalent (but by no means exclusive) Among the alt right and the harder right nazis. It allows them to create deniable self identifiers while deliberately taking all criticism of their ideas to the most extreme interpretation. So, a canceling becomes actual censorship.

@Junosensei

4 жыл бұрын

@@SaborSalek - Nuance, by nature, is going to delve in pointing both ways to some extent, but its purpose in finding a realistic way of engaging with a topic is still key. "Both sides" arguments put equal weight on both sides in order to justify some kind of moral superiority of sitting in the middle. T1J still clearly sits on the left with his conclusion and the video clearly has a goal of identifying nuance, not dismissing it on some moral ground.

AOC put it best. "The term “cancel culture” comes from entitlement - as though the person complaining has the right to a large, captive audience,& one is a victim if people choose to tune them out. Odds are you’re not actually cancelled, you’re just being challenged, held accountable, or unliked."

@ems3991

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, let's take the word of a privileged Congresswoman who regularly lies about her past and experiences, mocks the way Black people speak, and complains that people joking about her is worse than us getting death threats and being assaulted.

@xSmittyxCorex

4 жыл бұрын

Emily Schueller wait what? Inform me please?

@surgeland9084

4 жыл бұрын

@@ems3991 I haven't heard of any of this. Where is this information coming from?

@vendaboi8652

4 жыл бұрын

@@ems3991 Link?

@manzell

4 жыл бұрын

as someone with no audience whatsoever, who nonetheless was cancelled for expressing an idea that turned out to just be about 8 months ahead of it's time, I disagree 100%.

People feel the rich and powerful are entitled to power, audiences, and wealth, no matter what... but the marginalized arent entitled to basic existence. Also, hate speech silences free speech. When you cant say who you are without 10 people screaming slurs at you, that is silencing too.

@Dorian_sapiens

4 жыл бұрын

I wish more people understood this. We can either have free speech for targeted minorities, or we can have free speech for the people who hate them. We literally cannot have both. If you choose to prioritize the latter, that says everything I care to know about you.

@jeffersonclippership2588

4 жыл бұрын

Ironically, the people who yell the loudest about freedom are the most committed to this authoritarian mindset.

@matthewjonas8952

4 жыл бұрын

@@Dorian_sapiens Sounds like "free speech" needs a re-defining if we're using your standard, which is the same standard currently in practice with the lovely fascist element of society. By that, I mean the idea that free speech is being able to say anything ever whenever without consequence-imposed limitation. Consider instead speech is free up to the point at which it limits others freedom. In that sense, there need not be any asymmetrical limitations. Having an incongruency is GOING to cause problems and already has. The direction the scales are tipped doesn't seem to prevent this.

@user-xr3rb6pn9m

3 жыл бұрын

@@jeffersonclippership2588 yeah, for those people, free speech basically means the ability to say an N-word without consequences. If this is the metric of free speech, Russia is the most free country in the entire world.

@capoeiristachik1

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for saying this I’m so confused about how no one is talking about the impact of finances in our democracy and instead focus on how sad people are for being confronted with the fact they are contributing to a culture that kills people. No, we don’t have time to patiently wait for people to get motivation to change their ways. People are dying.

This one time someone sent me a death threat because i’d reblogged some fanart of a cartoon with a problematic creator. At the time i was kinda out of the loop about the whole controversy, so i asked them what they knew about it and told them what i’d heard. They acted surprised that i’d responded without any hostility & immediately became a lot more polite, although they were clearly very anxious about the situation. Some of the points they made seemed to be based on misinformation, but others were pretty much accurate & i had to agree. I tried to tell them this, but before i could say anything they blurted out “sorry i don’t feel comfortable talking to a fan of this show”, and blocked me. I think discourse is a really important tool for helping us understand each other & grow as people, but some people refuse to engage in any sort of discussion- not because they don’t wanna find out they’re wrong, but because they’re afraid that the opposition genuinely just wants to hurt them. What’s really upsetting is that i can’t blame them for thinking like that....

@criskp6861

4 жыл бұрын

Now I need to know what show it was!

@meowisol

4 жыл бұрын

I'm surprised someone sent you a death threat and then said they don't feel comfortable talking to you like 'uhhhh you told me to die though?'

@ExeErdna

3 жыл бұрын

@@meowisol Most people that throw around death threats want people to breakdown in fear. Those without it make them VERY afraid.

@ExeErdna

3 жыл бұрын

This happened to me a lot where people basically back out of something they themselves started when I just want to learn about where they stand or state they maybe wrong. They nope out, they're so afraid yet that fear is what controls them not the person since they person can do whatever. Yet FEAR, fear is defined as a constant threat which is why it has to be overtaken and defeated. As the dark and thunder is crippling to children, dissenting opinions is this towards adults.

@charliekahn4205

3 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure it's not possible for a person (which is a dynamic, tangible noun) to be problematic. They could behave problematically, or even have problematic beliefs, ideals, fashions, styles, or trappings, but they, as in their very existence on the face of the Earth, cannot by definition be problematic. A more accurate, and much kinder, description would be a creator who was behaving problematically.

that cartoon is so cute

@SlapstickGenius23

4 жыл бұрын

Chibi!

Many criticisms of "Cancel Culture" are total bull, but that doesn't change the fact that doxing/threats of violence/encouraging people to kill themselves is super common from mobs on both the left and right and is never morally justifiable behavior.

@rishabhanand4973

2 жыл бұрын

the thing about that is doxxing, threats of violence, and encouraging public figures to kill themselves is nothing new. As soon as you become a public enough figure, you're going to receive all those things. I'm not saying those are good, just that that's how it is. Being an actor, even one who isn't particularly vocal about their politics, you're gonna get death threats.

@orionar2461

2 жыл бұрын

@@rishabhanand4973 it's just more amplified and accepted by various online echo chambers now.

@tylersmith3139

2 жыл бұрын

Usually doxxers and people who tell others to kill themselves are in more non-political debate by younger adults/teenagers.

“I’m offended, that you are offended, by the offensive things I said! Why are you walking away! I want to say more offensive things!!!” - every right wing demagogue

@BabyRainForest

3 жыл бұрын

That's so true xD

@marvingonzalez8586

3 жыл бұрын

Let them

@katiek.5614

3 жыл бұрын

As an independent, and to be fair, I’ve seen the left do this as well. Actually I’ve seen tons of people with different ideologies do this, which is sad and frustrating for sure 😔

@someonerandom8552

3 жыл бұрын

Claudia Maigret Free speech does not mean you can say anything you want without social consequences. Thinking it does is beyond entitled. It’s not hard to keep a civil tongue in one’s head. Being offended is indeed a waste of time, I think you and I would agree on that. But at the same time I’m not going to be a dick to people just because of my “free speech” like some teenage edgelord. Like I see happen with the people who are free speech absolutists. I’m not saying you do that, just that that mindset often elicits such results. Which is pretty immature, just saying. And people voicing their offence are in fact exercising their free speech as well. This isn’t black and white, there are always nuances to take into account.

@mrmanpie8088

3 жыл бұрын

@Claudia Maigret no its ok to get "offended" if someone does not your existance as a human being

SO nice to hear a take that acknowedges the complexity of the issue. It seems like if you have any kind of mixed feelings on this topic, you get pigeonholed into either, "Cancel culture is the end of free speech, shut up if you're offended, snowflakes!" or "Cancel culture doesn't exist, calling out bad behaviour is universally good and has never done any harm ever." There's plenty of reason to be nervous about mob tactics being used widely and uncritically. Personally, I think we should be advocating more conscientious, careful, and responsible use of call-outs that take into account the mechanics of the platforms we use. But so long as everybody is screaming at each other about whether or not so-called "cancel culture" exists, we're not talking about how we can use public discourse productively.

I recommend the book “So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed” written by Jon Ronson. I never took the word cancel in Cancel Culture literally. I truly believe the choice of the word cancel in Cancel Culture came about (like Mob Mentality) due to nothing more than alliteration. The sound of the two words together works even if the definition of cancel doesn’t quite fit.

@thatjillgirl

4 жыл бұрын

My understanding is that the phrase harkens back to the “Cancel R. Kelly” movement, which was one of the first organized cancelling attempts to be called such (it used that hashtag and whatnot).

@charliekahn4205

3 жыл бұрын

@@thatjillgirl I mean, he is basically gone from the public eye, so maybe it was warranted that the movement was named as such?

This was a very good take. When I've brought up "cancel culture" with my friends and comrades or in friendly spaces critically, what I'm trying to get at is this vengeful and unforgiving atmosphere that does exists on the left currently. I don't wanna blow the issue out of proportion, but I do think it is a real issue. We always need to give people the space and chance to improve, to learn and to live. Too often people say they want accountability when what they actually want is revenge. That being said, it's also true that the people usually making the most noise about cancel culture on the biggest platforms are not the ones in danger of actually being "cancelled". As with other things, those most in danger of being cancelled are those with less power to begin with. And to the right "cancelling" is just a bludgeon to beat the left with because they actually fucking love cancelling any lefty they can.

@dexdrako

4 жыл бұрын

"cancel culture" isn't about the individual its about society as a whole. i think this is what most people miss, you don't change the world by changing the minds of those with already set view. a bigot will likely always be a bigot no matter how much you talk to them. you change the world by getting to people before their world views are set. would it be nice if JK or some random kk mc jerk face changed their tunes sure but in the end it doesn't matter if you can show everyone how wrong their ideas are.

@caleviwin

4 жыл бұрын

Um its more of a left thing to use but the right uses it too Its almost as if both sides are terrible and have terrible people? But for the most part the left uses it more.

@ExeErdna

3 жыл бұрын

@@dexdrako The problem is cancel culture is used towards society like a blunt object it ignores the individual that will go "you're wrong" it ain't about the people with their minds made up you just can't be "hitting people" without the fear of getting hit back. the culture is just as bad since "changing minds" is just creating a different flavor of hate.

I love the thoughtfulness of this video and am totally sharing it! I just see one point I feel wasn't covered: there's a difference between a sort of "hard power" and "soft power" in silencing, and this video focuses on hard power: canceling, social media nastiness, etc. can't make powerful people go away or stop people stating their views; it's not censorship. Agreed. But these actions carry a soft power too: a cumulative sense of always looking over our shoulder lest we say something "wrong" (according to someone) and get vitriol as a response, which is stressful, as the video notes. That does "silence," in the sense that it constrains free exchange of ideas among ordinary folx in dozens of ways all the time. (Heck, I'm scared to write this comment.) Ex. One my students in a lit class went through the whole term never saying he disagreed with what he perceived as fundamental assumptions of the class (till one response at the end) because he assumed his voice would not be welcomed/tolerated. I wish he had felt free to speak. I think he misunderstood some of the assumptions I had in mind. I think we could have had very rich discussions if his voice had been included. He wasn't censored, but practically he was silenced. And I do think this is doing a cumulative damage to our culture. We're all becoming more afraid of each other. That hurts discourse; it increases stress and anger. I do agree with the video's assertion that a compassionate approach works better.

@makeplay8004

3 жыл бұрын

I know that feeling of fear to speak my mind. It seems like many people wouldn't even listen to what you say, but try to filter if you area good guy or bad guy. I am happy to know this channel though as it is nuanced and thus gives me hope that complex thoughts may be more expected than I fear.

TJ the “follow me” scares me every time lol! 😂 But I stay because I know the content is about to get good!

@TheEmmaHouli

4 жыл бұрын

Lean into the fear and soon you will be saying "follow me" at the same time

@purplehood8418

4 жыл бұрын

TheEmmaHouli I will!

Thank you so much for making this video. I shouted “yes!” multiple times and instantly subscribed. We need more KZread creators who can talk about these things in nuanced, complex and compassionate ways!

"Canceling" at it's worse is ruining someone's career. It has happened MANY times. Especially in light of rape accusations. Many rape accusations have ONLY happened online.....particularly on Twitter. I know at least two guys who lost their careers. One for 3 years, over an online accusation. He eventually proved his innocence. He never recovered his career. I also HATE the lack of accountability amongst cancel culture. Why punish people for past wrongs.....when they've changed? Who holds the people who go on these cancel culture witch hunts accountable for their wrongs?

@ExeErdna

3 жыл бұрын

Nobody holds them accountable because then they too will be canceled it is basically an Inquisition they're dogmatic in their reasoning and "righteous" in their fervor. I know people that have been doxxed and harrassed worse for standing up for themselves. If they're a clear lie nobody openly apologizes they get quiet and look down like a beast that knows they did wrong. Yet their human pride prevents them from going "I'm gonna take that very energy I used to hurt you to make things better" They NEVER do that.

@charliekahn4205

3 жыл бұрын

This is exactly the same thing as calling someone "Scrooge" in order to call them someone who doesn't care about others, when Scrooge changed in the story, and became a kind-hearted, charitable man.

I love how much effort you put in to acknowledge and explain nuance

Honestly, even as a trans person, I initially felt the dog piling on JK Rowling was overblown (especially since it came right during the BLM protests and she's already proven she was transphobic years prior) and was hoping that people would just finally stop buying her books, or someone would just pull her aside and let her know why she was wrong, or even that she would, I don't know, listen to her followers who were more well-versed in trans issues than her. The more it's gone on though, it seems like she's just completely shut down and refuses to listen to discourse, essentially the same thing she accuses the rest of the world of doing. How do we have open conversations with monoliths like this who seem utterly unwilling to listen, yet get so insanely offended when we won't listen to them?

@pancakeofdestiny

4 жыл бұрын

As Lindsay Ellis said, she's just going to be hun-boxed by people who agree with her and end up in an echo chamber where she becomes more and more extreme

@Iridescence93

4 жыл бұрын

Why do you assume she's wrong or uninformed because you disagree with her? Reasonable people can disagree about things which aren't scientifically proven. I happen to agree with her and will normally be open to discussing it if someone is polite but as we both know most people who approached her were not polite at all and did not present any good arguments. If people just call someone names you cannot expect them to take whatever else that person has to say seriously.

@bassman9261995

4 жыл бұрын

Iridescence93 when you say you agree with her, it’s hard to decipher what exactly you mean. Do you not think trans women are women and trans men are men?

@dutubsucks

4 жыл бұрын

That perspective is the one major problem I have with this video. Look at the current political discourse in the US from the right. Look at the Trump presidency and everything that has happened over the past 5 years. How can you engage in good faith conversation with that? When good faith conversation no longer is an option, where do we go?

@bulletproofblouse

4 жыл бұрын

Even though, also as a trans woman, there are several example where trans people do something and I think "Jeez, you need to chill the fuck out a bit", Rowling presented a bunch of opinions which were ill-founded and received criticism for it and the amount of criticism you receive is always going to be proportionate to the size of platform you have. I can tweet some hellish opinions, and nobody is going to give a damn because I have just over 500 followers. And of course, HOW people react is important and you can never trust people to be reasonable. Back in 2012, Suzanne Moore published an opinion piece in The Guardian that featured the phrase, in no way pejoratively, "looking like a Brazilian transsexual" and that whole thing just kicked. OFF. Massive Twitter dog-piling, some very uncharitable takes by trans people and eventually forcing Julie Burchill, genuine transphobe and all-round insufferable being, to come to her friend's defence and publish a bunch of pure, unfiltered dreadful takes against the whole concept of being trans. At their worst, there's a level of aggression coming from trans people pushing back that I think is not a good look, peaking with one occassion when a response to something a bit critical of gender dysphoria getting a response including "she can choke on my mouthfeel". Oh wow. Actual threats of sexual violence. Fuck me.

So... "Freedom of expression is not freedom from consequence and criticism" seems to have gone out of fashion, it seems. At least in these people's circles.

@orionar2461

2 жыл бұрын

The question is whether those consequences are actually proportional

@jotabeas22

2 жыл бұрын

@@orionar2461 the answer is yes, in this case :)

@orionar2461

2 жыл бұрын

@@jotabeas22 which case?

@jotabeas22

2 жыл бұрын

@@orionar2461 this one

@orionar2461

2 жыл бұрын

@@jotabeas22 all of them? Or strictly JKR

Gordon Klein - UCLA professor suspended over a completely innocuous email There are two petitions - one trying to have him fired and one to have him reinstated I thank goodness the latter has over 3 times as many signings

It's irritating to hear rich, famous people complain on a platform with millions of followers about being silenced.... You're holding the same microphone you've been holding for years, you just don't like people booing the things you say.

I can't believe I discovered your channel just yesterday. I'm binging all your vids. There are aspects of cancel culture that I don't like, but I hate it even more when people say stuff like "Cancel culture is toxic" to be dismissive of valid arguments, and add nothing to the discourse.

So glad you’re covering this. Thanks.

It is NOT just you tho!! That is the single best take on CC I have seen. Most of these points are not unique, but the framing, the pacing, the emphasis, every fucking detail is pitch-perfect. I don't have the vocabulary to properly fanboi. Seriously, I'm mowing thru the T1J library and fast becoming my favorite channel of all time

This is such a refreshing video. It's so good to see someone attacking the nuance head-on (and I especially liked your "calling out" the social media lust for vengeance). As for the "everyone meaning different things" problem, I think this sort of semantic drift was pretty inevitable; it's always what happens when terms birthed from a smaller community (often, as in this case, from Black Twitter) spread to the wider platform. It wouldn't be so bad if people actually took the time to listen and discover what people actually mean by the things that they say, but it'll be a cold day in hell before that becomes the norm on Twitter.

I think the anger about "cancel culture" stems from a definition of it as an online collective mindset that condemns certain ideas, things or people. The problem of this mindset is it´s agressive, impulsive and unreasonable nature. People get tied to these collective pressures in an almost hypnotic way in the online spaces and things get overly simplified to a problematic degree. Moreover there seems to be this fear in certain spaces to being condemned yourself if you question certain beliefs.

@charliekahn4205

3 жыл бұрын

I've really thought of it as the violent, exclusionary mentality that stems from another mentality that condemns the people who at any time professed the ideas or things that are condemned, with no hope of redemption, which in turn stems from the misconception that people are static. Essentially, the order is: "If you're a bad dude once, you're a bad dude forever"->"If you did a bad thing, you're a bad dude forever"->"to get rid of bad things, get rid of bad dudes"->(?)"Anyone who supports the 'bad dudes' is also a bad dude"

Don’t know how I haven’t stumbled upon this channel until now, but it’s one of my favorites already.

I just want to say I've binged a few of your videos today and I have never found a youtuber who has matched my views so well. Thank you for vocalising my thoughts in such a clear and succinct way.

I think I found a KZread channel that's been missing in my life. *Adds to collection*

Remember when the anti-PC crowd was using the term “call out culture”? However, it’s not good optics to complain about people simply “calling out” shitty beliefs. It’s much easier to get sympathy when you’re being “silenced.”

I find myself coming back to this channel just because the ideas are thought out and seems like productive conversation and open to debate.

I'm not entirely what allowed the algorithm to push your videos into my feed... But I'm quite thankful. Great content of what I've seen so far. Thanks for the effort and work dude.

I see "Cancel culture" as modern term for "Blacklisting in the mainstream". Celebrities who are "cancelled" tend to be fired from public platforms / current jobs and any association with them is then considered unfavorable. A "cancelled" person cannot find a job within mainstream industry.

@selanryn5849

3 жыл бұрын

Celebrities' careers only ever last as long as the public's attention span. Most are 'cancelled' for simply growing old and/or stale.

The Bugs Bunny rap still goes hard, though 😂

I continue to be impressed by your insights and nuanced perspectives. I can never really predict what your take is going to be, but it's always piping hot, and I always finish your videos thinking: "huh, that's a valid take."

Interesting to hear the different meanings of cancel culture. When I’ve used this term, I’ve typically been thinking of the cases you described as dog piling and mob mentality, directed at every day people. You mentioned an example of somebody losing their job over a tone deaf post. While this may not technically be censorship, as the government isn’t erasing posts, it does feel like some sort of silencing. To be honest I’m afraid to post much of anything online now, as I may make a mistake and say something offensive, unintentionally. If I have the bad luck of someone with a lot of followers retweeting me, I don’t think I could handle the avalanche of backlash. I may be a highly sensitive person. So, I avoid posting anything that could be seen as controversial. It annoys me to see what appears like bad faith complaining of “cancel culture” by people who would just like to explicitly provoke without consequences. That seems to make my concerns about disproportionate retribution for mistakes seem less legitimate 😞

@StardustDNA

3 жыл бұрын

I concur 100%

@lotsofuwuenergy3983

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, but I'd also like to add that whatever you'd say that could offend someone... I imagine wouldn't be tolerated at your workplace or said to people not really close to you. Social media is just an extension of these environments (lots of employers see social media profiles as a reflection of the company). If you wouldn't say it around these areas, don't say it on social media. Additionally I think it'd be good practice to look into _why_ people might be offended by the things you're referring to. Having a full understanding decreases the chance of saying something actually offensive (a person's more likely to refrain from saying the n-word if they know the weight attached to it and its history in comparison to someone who just sees it as a word).

@selanryn5849

3 жыл бұрын

At will employment is its own separate problem.

I will continue to maintain the position I took ages ago when explaining to my (now ex-, thankfully) Republican father about how his "political correctness" vs. "the marketplace of ideas" dichotomy was a flawed understanding of the latter: As the "marketplace of ideas" is _literally_ a principle of First Amendment jurisprudence, it exclusively refers to the absence of _government_ censorship. Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. was never talking about just letting all ideas float out there unchallenged, it was always about empowering *the people* to use their discernment and their voice to shut down the bad ideas. That said, it's supposed to be about shutting down the *ideas* not the people expressing those ideas.

@erraticonteuse

4 жыл бұрын

Oh snap, I just came across a quote from another judge that's also totally on point. "A society in which men recognize no check upon their freedom soon becomes a society where freedom is in the possession of a savage few." -Learned Hand (yes, that is really his name). I mean, it's basically just another, broader formulation of the paradox of tolerance, but I think it's interesting how the broader construction also allows it to include things like the economy. The same people "resisting" even just a social check on their speech sure seem to have a big overlap with people who act like any attempt to redirect even a fraction of a percent of privately-held obscene wealth is a slippery slope to gulags, when the actual consequence of not doing so is more and more people getting poor and the disappearance of the middle class.

@kimokomedy

4 жыл бұрын

only problem is cancel culture goes very very very aggressively and hard to the person personally, to threaten him, doxx him, stalk him and people on social media know its a hot topic so any harrasment towards that target will get them cool points and retweets so it encourages more people to harrass the targets.

I just started watching your videos today and haven't been able to stop. Thank you for your wisdom and approach to tough topics. Followed, subscribed, and listening.

First time I have ever seen your channel .. subscribed in the first 10 minutes. Logic on the internet is so rare...love the reasoning and facts here.

Tj1: Vengeance is stupid, the world doesn´t become better as a result. French Revolution: hold my pitchfork...

@Aveilas11

4 жыл бұрын

I mean...the world didn't become better as a result. The main dude made a cult and got his head chopped off. And power transferred from one group of rich and powerful to another group of rich and powerful. I feel like people love the bumper sticker vibe of revolution as this hallmark of justice and forget that actual revolution involves a bunch of people (including children) getting their heads chopped off.

I have been thinking about this issue for a while. While I agree that there are a bunch of garbage takes about "the libs taking all of your free speech", I also think that we need some way for people to learn and understand from their mistakes. In the end, all the JK rowling charade will not make her change her mind. Was there a way for her to learn? I come from a catholic conservative family and it took a looong time for me to come around on LGTBTQ rights. If I didn't have good voices that helped me learn about this, or if when I tried to give my incorrect opinions people would have cancelled me, then I would never have learned.

@EnemaOfMyEnemy

4 жыл бұрын

I wonder this too, somewhat. Although from what I understand, JK Rowling has been a TERF for years. I can't imagine that no one ever tried to debate her civilly on the matter or that she didn't know her beliefs are hurtful to a lot of her former fans. How much handholding is a marginalized group supposed to do when people just won't bother to learn or understand?

@EmeraldCityVideo

4 жыл бұрын

People have tried to politely bring things to her attention and she doens't take to it. She's getting more vitriolic and cruel, not less.

@lolafiiona7014

4 жыл бұрын

@@EnemaOfMyEnemy people need to be more open that they can teach people to see something a certain way. If they dont feel that way it's not that they are a terrible person you just have a different view. I find the far left doesn't look at both sides of the argument. Its maddening to me

@BlackINKim

4 жыл бұрын

My grain of salt is that, while this is not a valueless position, there are two main issue here First is the matter of cognitive dissonance, while it's great that you had good voices to help you learn, at this point, JK Rowling's social status now kinda revolves around the position she's taken. You know how it's way easier to change your mind on an issue if you haven't voiced your previous opinion out loud beforehand, and thus you don't need to do the, admittedly embarassing process of backtracking on the opinions you holded tight not too long ago? Imagine if, on top of that, not only are you surrounded by new found friends that only started to hang out with you BECAUSE of the opinions you shared, but you're even starting to get a coverage and new allies that directly contribute to your financial stability. You know the whole "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."? I mean, I don't know you, but I'm going to assume that, even before changing your mind on LGBTQIA rights, you didn't wrote books under the pen name of a conversion therapist. And secondly, while reforming people that hold harmful opinions and commited heinous act is, indeed, great, you cannot make that your sole praxis. Like, as an exemple if, say, a white supremacist is seen carrying a gun and openly threatening or downright attacking black people on the street: Yes, if you can somehow get them to realise the error of their way, that's awesome. But you can't make it your sole goal to reform them, and outprioritizing, say, protecting the people they are threatening. You can't just let the guy run around, shooting people, solely on account of "Now wait, let's hear them out a bit first, I bet we can CHANGE them!" And in the same way, while yes, it would be awesome if Rowling could change her mind, convincing her by way of a polite debate where we're making sure she's as comfortable as possible can not get the priority over protecting trans people from the genuine, direct and visible harm she's contributing to.

@caitlinjopepe541

4 жыл бұрын

@@EmeraldCityVideo I was about to say the same

I know I'm a little late and you'll probably never see this, But your take care is one of the most measured and empathetic discussions about this topic that I've seen. I really appreciate it.

I hate to say this since it's so off topic, but every time I see your cartoon persona - I can't get Huey Freeman out of my head. :)

Most of the time people who are complaining about cancel culture are actually complaining about the fact that being an asshole (in public) is no longer consequence free.

@imani7979

4 жыл бұрын

THIS🙌🏾

@randombloke165

4 жыл бұрын

Grandsome It’s funny, because the anti-sjws foam at the mouth about cancel culture but they LOVE saying “Get woke, go broke” as if that’s somehow different than cancelling.

@bigmoney2674

4 жыл бұрын

There will be consequences to cancel culture

@myself2noone

4 жыл бұрын

Hahahahahaha. Yes it is. You just have to pretend to care about social justice and you can be as big an asshole as you want.

@ExeErdna

3 жыл бұрын

@@randombloke165 Get woke, go broke is beyond SJW/Anti-SJW. It's is damn near a social phenomenon. You're ignoring investors on a project are mostly people we do not know yet they're investing in EVERYTHING if it doesn't sell well because it "when woke" they will go broke since they will back out. The investors are a VERY ruthless bunch of faceless people that control a lot more than we think. Yet this concept is also backed on SJW's don't buy they very projects they ask for wanting everybody else to prop it up. When those people go no they go broke since if they don't reach numbers investors back out which makes CEOs save their own asses and leave everybody else in cold.

I almost cried whle watching this video just because you got the point SO right, particularly the whole lack of compassion and vengeance part. Honestly I spent the whole thing nodding and saying YES YES EXACTLY so like AMAZING job and I am immediately tweeting this so ppl can get some actual FACTS JUICE

The “My Name is Earl” gone too soon got me! I love(d) that show, still watch it every now and again when I need some mindless fun.

Oh my God, I am absolutely in love with your videos and I've learned so much that it's revived my inspiration to write.

People really need to understand the Paradox of Tolerance

@grindkerensky

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah people need to understand the part of it that says that legitimate speech - which is not breaking any laws - is to be faced on the same level. People like to only quote the parts of Karl Poppers Paradox of Tolerance which suits them to silence people they disagree with.

@EphemeralTao

4 жыл бұрын

@@grindkerensky Popper needlessly complicated the issue to create a sort of false paradox. A better way to look at it is that tolerance is a peace treaty, and when one side violates that treaty, the other side is no longer bound by it. extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376

@deadeaded

4 жыл бұрын

The problem is that people disagree on what counts as intolerance. I've seen people call Obama a fascist. To them, "tolerating" Obama would be tolerating intolerance.

@grindkerensky

4 жыл бұрын

@@EphemeralTao who decides who is in violation when the violation is simply an opinion and not a treat or a direct incitement to violence?

@SaborSalek

4 жыл бұрын

VZ Gaming „Silence People they disagree with“. My humanity isn’t something to agree upon. If you wish to „academically discuss“ my human rights, don’t wonder when the same eventually happens to you.

It seems especially hella complicated discussing free speech/cancel culture, when we can include the example of trying to cancel Nazis in arguments and it's NOT a hypothetical (whether or not it's over used). Public shaming can be horrible and poorly aimed (see Jon Ronson Ted Talk) yet it's hard not to see a place for some form of cancelling IF it is effective when discussing facist white supremacists.

I love how thoughtful and insightful your vlogs are. Thanks for educating us.

This brought up several points that I think are absent from other criticisms of cancel culture, and gave me a lot to think about. I would love to hear more about your thoughts of punching down v punching up. Great video!

That's a cute new avatar! For another perspective on cancel culture, I recommend the Champagne Sharks video "Harper's Letter, Nick Cannon, and the Fake Cancel Culture Panic". It's a VOD of a long live stream, but the cancel culture stuff is at (or close to) the beginning, so you don't need to watch the whole thing if you don't want to. One of his points is that there's always been a cancel culture, it's just more democratized now than in the past, and people are using it to punch up instead of just punching down -- and that's why some people are panicking (and it's why the people who are panicking are mostly pretty high up in our social hierarchy).

@dexdrako

4 жыл бұрын

this

@amberrichards2778

4 жыл бұрын

I guess I never connected it, but the book The Scarlet Letter is literally about a woman being cancelled by her town. Holy shit.

Thank you for making this video! My mom was asking my sister and I about this just recently and it was nice to be able to send her a concise video about it since it was hard for us to explain, especially to her who isn't as aware about internet culture.

Appreciate the sincere thoughts on the subject broadly. Thank you for your contribution to the dialogue.

I thought cancelling was something that happened within a group. Like when you do or say something unpopular and people try to exclude you from your own community.

I like how 4-5 years ago it was just called “cancelling” and was considered a dumb, ineffectual teenager thing to roll eyes at. The fact that prominent media figures are now crying foul about “angry mobs” and “destroyed careers” is for me a kind of poetic justice - twitter vigilantes are absolutely going too far sometimes, but you know what, they’ve proven they’re a force to be reckoned with and that’s a hell of an arc.

@dohlecarnett1866

4 жыл бұрын

Not really. I don't see that as a force (for good?) that should be admired. How the hell is it helpful to have mobs?

@caleviwin

4 жыл бұрын

@Brook Heyes lmfao they didn't cancel it, i still see it being used. Same with all lives matter. It wasnt beautiful, it was annoying af.

@marvingonzalez8586

3 жыл бұрын

@Falcon Fern lmao they did Jack shit

I appreciate your content. Every time I tune in to you I learn and grow. Thanks for choosing to educate and engage.

man, one of the best chanels with really teachable conversations, with lots of empaty. cheers.

Yeah, big facts. I feel like judgment, harassment, and exclusion is the default tactic for aggrieved people online. I get that impulse (hey, I'm trans, I don't like attack helicopter jokes either), and at the same time it's always been obvious to me that allies - good people in general - do messed up stuff sometimes. Even me, maybe even especially me. But this sucks bc it removes the possibility of growth and allyship. Most of the cool, super radical, super marginalized people you see freaking out online are like a couple years removed from a "phase" where they were, like, super neoliberal in their activism, pro-cop, pro-business, maybe they used racist or transphobic language, w/e. No one is perfect, just fuckin relax. Especially if the person you're talking to is in their early twenties or younger, just... give people some space and time to grow, damn.

"I'm gonna say something inane and backed up by bad science!" "Okay but we're gonna call you an idiot" "MY FREE SPEECH WHYYYY"

I am really enjoying your channel. Your critical and intellectual analysis is thoughtful and reasoned. No hyperbole, just facts with your own experience influencing your analysis. This is how we need to address these difficult issues. I will continue to watch.

discovered your channel yesterday and love your content! you're so smart and articulate, thank you for speaking up about these important issues in a very succinct and effective way

(Full disclosure; I am a career naval intelligence analyst. That means I spent my entire career in a very right environment even though I am far more moderate to left) The answer to most questions from my career background is "well, it's a little more complicated than that". And T1J has done an admirable job of pointing that out. The thing I find most interesting is how many people do not understand 'free speech'. Free Speech only protects you from the *government*, not from fellow citizens and not from the consequences of your speech. So, for example, if you say "Free Medicare For All!" The GOVERNMENT can't stifle you. But the rest of society is free to. (As career military, I am well used to social medicine and am a huge fan) I think where the right of center to hanging off the edge right side of the political spectrum has issues is when people like Milo Yiannopoulos get (literally) canceled from speaking at, say, a university. Is that right? I don't know. I have mixed emotions. Should he be heard? Maybe. But those who oppose him are truly free to do so. I find him a vile human being and ripe for being pushed back. But that is where the right of center get their ammo for 'Cancel Culture'. Are there things that are so vile that they NEED to be cancelled? Yes, I do believe there is. It's pretty easy to justify canceling Neo-Nazi culture. But I think T1J is right in that there is no need to be a jerk about it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't defend those who are being attacked and harmed by those with a voice.

@Nemo_Anom

4 жыл бұрын

If something happens which systemically chills your ability to use a right, then it doesn't matter if it is coming from government or elsewhere. If you are prevented from using a right then you don't have that right, after all.

@sidney4022

4 жыл бұрын

I would draw the line at people doxxing and harassing you for expressing controversial opinions. One thing I do notice is that whenever conservative speakers wish to debate the people trying to cancel them, the cancellers do not seem to show any interest in engaging in debate, and are only interested in pushing their own views and preventing the speaker from giving his talk.

I think horrid people like G. Linehan and recently C. Woolery losing their Twitter accounts is a consequence of abusive lying. Linehan about trans women and Woolery about Covid-19. Contrast that with my long time loved C.P. and Natalie getting a major dog pile and this shows where things go wrong. Natalie can be talked to, she'll listen to criticism and may debate, but wasn't doing it from malice or spite. This has remained a sore spot for me about Twitter.

@LimeyLassen

4 жыл бұрын

Those people who "canceled" Natalie are the worst. Total scumbags.

@pancakeofdestiny

4 жыл бұрын

Didn't she delete her own account, rather than being banned from the platform, though? (Not defending the people who harassed her)

@robeson1231

4 жыл бұрын

CP...?

@VoidBaronJules

4 жыл бұрын

@@robeson1231 I think they mean ContraPoints which is Natalie Wynn's KZread channel/pen name

@SaborSalek

4 жыл бұрын

„Cancelling Natalie“. Yes, tell me about how her career is ruined, her platform diminished and her support gone. If you want to talk about her mental state and how this has a very bad effect on her, I‘m not even disagreeing and I think the reaction some of the Fanbase had towards her needs to be condemned. But in no way is what happened to her „cancelling“. Also, Natalie doesn’t really react positively towards criticism and cannot even handle it - as we’ve seen countless times. If you like her that’s fine, I like her too. But if we do a good-faith criticism of her work or deeds while simultaneously condemning the harassment she received: do us all a favor and don’t engage if you don’t even understand the criticism or why her handling of the criticism was quite unprofessional and damaging to parts of the trans community.

Thanks so much for your insightful, thoughtful, nuanced & well laid-out perspective. So rare to find! I'm so glad I found your channel.

I hadn't seen any of your stuff before, just happened upon this video. I must say you are one of the few that have something intelligent to say on this subject. Like you said, it's complicated. I'll definitely check out your other stuff. Thanks!

I don't generally like the idea of people getting fired for public bigotry / stupidity. If that person wields power and are obviously bigots, they may need to be fired. But I hold some pretty nonstandard opinions and I fear losing work over that? So, noxious as those others are, I'd rather not try to get them fired.

My therapist: It's okay. Anime T1J isn't real, He can't hurt you. Anime T1J:

I just listened to the Citations Needed Podcast news brief on the Harper's Letter earlier today, and then this drops! Both you and them (Nima Shirazi and Adam Johnson) bring up the lack of solid definition for "cancel culture" and how that allows people to talk past each other in these conversations, or worse, to wield the abstraction as a shield from criticism.

This is a incredible content! Really loving this channel.

I've made a habit of staying away from the comments on KZread as a whole. I just wanted to share how much I enjoy this channel. You're super chill and very thoughtful, and I really appreciate the compassion and understanding you encourage your viewers to have. Thank you for doing what you do, and for sharing it with all of us!

I don't care if it does mean banishment from the public sphere. No one "deserves" fame or celebrity, and it's just as valid to stop giving them the attention they've so pathologically become addicted to as it is to boycott them financially. It's not enough for them to be filthy rich; we owe them the time of day now as well?

@charliekahn4205

3 жыл бұрын

Let 'em get their own time of day. They can afford a clock and a calendar. Isn't this supposed to be America, where we'd give the Pope a speeding ticket?

Yknow you're a good fella. I don't usually find people who make videos like this very entertaining, but all your videos I've seen are really insightful. I appreciate your content.

This is a really good one, keep it up man!

I think I ended up making an off-colour joke on Twitter and, prior to them attempting to fire me for getting sick (not even remotely starting on THAT story) and getting shit on by their disability claim process, I used to be proud of my employer so it was on my Twitter handle. I've got ADHD. I have Oppositional Defiance Disorder as well. I got in to an argument because I used a word that offended someone and when they informed me that I wasn't allowed to use that word on account of being straight I got oppositional and dug my heels in. It became a free speech thing as I was 'informed' and 'reached out to' by a crowd that I wasn't allowed to use that word as I wasn't a member of the minority then I was an idiot for arguing with a member of that minority. It's a gay thing. I live a pretty heteronormative life these days but after a decade even occasionally partaking in the local Davie Village culture in Vancouver calling myself 100% heterosexual feels a bit... revisionist? Maybe? So I don't really count myself myself a member of that community but if you're going to try to mandate my speech around which minorities I belong to well piss off I never handed my gay card back in when I moved away from Vancouver. That shit's mine ffs. But on Twitter I avoid playing that card directly. I made a reference to things not being quite what their assumption was but I wasn't going to play in their hand of 'be a minority, allowed to say certain words.' Then the mob reached out, got my employer all worked up and I certainly felt like up until I had played the 'bisexual card' they were quite willing to threaten the livelihood of my family over the whole use of the word 'faggy' in an unappreciated joke on Twitter because some hyper-sensitive adult child threw a tantrum about it. On Twitter. But that's the thing: I'm a crippled, mentally handicapped bored-with-bisexuality man who married an openly bisexual woman that has an entire family dependent on my employer's benefits to manage our health situations. We all suffer some catastrophic consequences if we both lose our income AND our access to affordable medication. At least one of these people thought we should all suffer because I offended someone on Twitter. That's not 'educating,' 'reaching out' or even 'protecting' anyone. That's a fucking mental illness. Were I not already a borderline Communist as is you can bet your ass that group would've sent me running in full sprint in to the right. Fuck them.

@seto749

4 жыл бұрын

You should have an easy time making friends among the anti-gay left.

@zombiemachinery4868

4 жыл бұрын

how is being oppsitional defiant a disorder? Do you believe all the crap these "psychologist" cunts crate? That's like telling someone that trying to not be a sheep is a disorder.

@GettyDarling

4 жыл бұрын

Forgive me if this is ignorance on my part, but I thought only children were diagnosed with ODD?

@cpark2570

4 жыл бұрын

​@@GettyDarling Traditionally, yeah. The broader problem is the lack of recognition regarding the emotional regulation challenges of ADHD. Once you re-add difficulty self-soothing and other emotional challenges, I say 're-add' as it was (to my knowledge) an accepted element of what we'd now call ADHD but that's a debate for the DSM committees. Think of it this way though: Start with your basic Cognitive Behavioural Therapy triangle. Thoughts -> Feelings -> Actions -> Repeat in various combinations. ADHD is defined as an inability to focus your thoughts and control your actions but folks with ADHD (particularly untreated) have co-morbidities related to dis-regulation of their feelings at an absurdly high rate of occurrence. The oppositionality arises from the disregulation of the emotional response. Either offended or angered you react defiantly at a rate that far exceeds what would be expected and it becomes surprisingly more manageable when medicated.

@cpark2570

4 жыл бұрын

@@seto749 Pass.

"speech is only free for those that share my opinion"

Loving this new format

Great video, thank you. The term always confused me, but your explanations make sense.

I’d be curious what you/others here think about people “canceling” young folks who make, for example, racist TikToks, and getting them rejected from their colleges. I find the phenomenon really interesting. On one hand, I can see how it’s seen as bullying and punching down, the called out person in question is usually like 18 at the oldest in these situations and harassing a minor is pretty weird. That said, they should be made aware that their actions are wrong and hurtful. There’s also a popular argument that getting these kids admission rescinded prevents young racists from becoming racists with PhDs and authority to spread their ideas and contribute to systemic racism. I don’t know how I feel about that, on one hand people change but the college is accepting the student as they are, not as who they could be if they change. I’ve been seeing this a lot on twitter and I’m really curious what people think about it.

@isabelganadedafonseca1499

4 жыл бұрын

I feel like absolutely everyone should have the right to a good education despite what they stand for. It's not anyone's place to decide who is worthy of it.

@ayomade7496

4 жыл бұрын

Personally I agree with the argument that racist ppl should be stopped from attending Uni. Too many POC die at the hands of racist police doctors lawyers judges etc for me to give them a pass.

@imaginareality

4 жыл бұрын

I strongly disagree with getting them rejected from college. By doing that you judge the whole person based on a few tiktoks, then you decide that they won't change for the better, and then you decide that you should have the power to punish them for their behaviors. I believe people should have to face consequences for their actions, but it should be a logical consequence that is relative to their action. I don't see how the logical consequence of somebody being racist online is somebody not getting into college. [I'm white however, so I can't really speak on this issue with regards to racism. So I usually ask myself how I would feel if the person said something incredibly transphobic or homophobic instead but it's not a perfect comparison of course.]

@rebeccakoenig9098

4 жыл бұрын

I would argue based on personal experience that one of the more effective ways to deprogram a racist teen is to get them into a good college though (Good here meaning not some right wing private uni obvs). I was a shitty teen until I went to college as were many of my friends and for all of us it was the college experience itself that was important to realizing how shitty we were. The combination of being outside of parental influences + actual diversity of student body + progressive teachers + realizing most of our high school education was a lot of bullshit was an important process for all of us. While some bigots make it through still bigots, it's important to remember there's a reason conservatives are so hostile to Higher Education and that's because they know a lot of their ideology relies on isolation and alienation.

@Doomsterlobster

4 жыл бұрын

It is a prime example of vengeance. I would be very cautious of administering extra-judicial consequences in the first place, and they should always be somehow related to the transgression. A kid who makes racist TikToks should have his TikTok privileges removed until he makes amends - not his education privileges. It's like bad parenting, coming up with arbitrary punishments: if you don't clean your room, you don't eat dessert (instead of emphasising an actual, understandable consequence of having a messy room). Not only would such a punishment be unjust, it is also ineffective. People who feel they've been mistreated will absolutely dig their heels in and become resentful. The best way marginalize and divide is to bar someone from education, or a job, or whatever (which anti-racists should be especially aware of). That is in addition to the reforming power of education Rebecca mentioned above. Liberals know and understand this when it comes to the criminal system. It's strange we wouldn't apply it extra-judicially, too.

I never emotionally recovered from My Name Is Earl's cancellation.

I’m not sure if it’s new for this video, but I love the new style of the channel!

You have such a sensible way of looking at things - I could listen to you talk in such an observing and educational manner for hours. Even if I didn't agree with your points, the way you put them allows for it to be easy to understand and considerable as at least an option. Love your channel thank you so much! :))

6:44 this segment nails it, but it doesn't go far enough. The effectiveness or lack thereof of the "cancellation" doesn't mean it isn't a rampant issue. Great point. But I would say it is truly not benign. It's a side affect of the internet and what it's done to our social habits - namely, amplifying our worst traits and creating echo chambers. The cancellation attempts are a symptom of this, and it's worth condemning the knee jerk reaction to villainize nuanced views. I mean, when the left thinks Steven Pinker is "problematic" and go after his public credibility, I know blue mold is growing on someone's bread.

@charliekahn4205

3 жыл бұрын

Who is Steven Pinker in the first place? I've never heard of him.

Almost all consumption right now is inherently immoral, but everyone has to eat, have shelter, drink, and remain healthy and sane. As such, everyone has to decide what they're ok with consuming. "Cancel culture" is that in action. People see a thing that goes beyond what they've decided they're ok with, and they publicly stop consuming it.

I love how you summarized the whole argument of cancel culture of famous people and common people from creative criticism to bullying to straight up vengeance, people who are not financially damaged to people who can not recover from docxing and guilt by association. Except someone is truly evil, criticism should be creative, people should be able to make mistakes and others to point them out where they did wrong so we can evolve together. I just created a twitter account, but I'm on the internet since its inception. Just because of facebook I went from popular to depression and sever anxiety and then panic attacks, and that\s because I could not keep up with other peoples perfect life timelines. I didn't anger anybody, I even saw most of my friends in real life and I new that they have problems in life just like me, but when I went on facebook I just would feel like sh*t, and I wasn't even piled on. But I can imagine harassment going to far, but I also understand the anger that some comments or behavior can produce. Anyway, great job !

So glad I found your channel. I Love how thoughtful you are and how you try to look at multiple angles. Most of all i like how you talk about people as the complex and conflicted creatures we are. Nothing is a simple answer not even trying to define what a thing is.

"Cancellation" is the power of the powerless. It may not produce the most consistently just verdicts and it may not be particularly effective in enforcing them, but one thing it has going for it that the regular justice system simply doesn't have is accessibility. Maybe if the literal courts weren't so flagrantly anti-poor, we could put the proverbial guillotines away.

@Nemo_Anom

4 жыл бұрын

It's not the law; it's pure abject authoritarianism.

@myself2noone

4 жыл бұрын

No it's the opposite. It's the power of the privlaged. The only group of people that see being P.C as a good thing are college educated white kids. Everyone else is sick of you. You don't speak for me.

cancel culture is not just a boycott. It's pressuring companies to "cancel" writers, journalists, celebrities, and even regular people who tweeted something stupid. Boycott is fair-game, cancel culture isn't. examples: pewdiepie, nick cannon, louis CK, jimmy kimmel, Justine Sacco, the list goes on so don't say that the second definition is false

@Melanie-rq5nb

4 жыл бұрын

I disagree with Nick cannon being on that list he was being extremely racist.

@availanila

4 жыл бұрын

Some of those people you've mentioned actually deserve to be shut up and face the music for what they did. Then again I look at Justine Sacco and Jimmy Kimmel and others like them and completely agree with you. Some of these things, like what JK Rowling said should have warranted more debate rather than cancel and celebrate (rich or not). Nonetheless I completely agree with you and honestly found this video fairly dissatisfying too.

@agginswaggin

4 жыл бұрын

​@@availanila @Melanie Here's the thing. I agree with both of you that some people said some nasty things (and maybe they deserved to be cancelled). But then let people boycott, not cancel. Cancelling people does not change hearts, respectful dialogue does (and Jesus too lol).

@deannasmith4443

3 жыл бұрын

@@agginswaggin what respectful dialogue can there be with people who are actively engaged in your dehumanization?

@agginswaggin

3 жыл бұрын

@@deannasmith4443 do you think those people and their ideas will magically vanish if you cancel them?

It's always felt weird how hard it is to explain this topic to people but heckin complicated indeed, massive thanks for this video!

First of all, solid analysis. I've just gotten into your videos and already your nuanced approach is hitting me right on the same philosophical wavelength. Happily subscribing! My experience with teaching really solidified for me that, when it comes to behavior, it's much less common than we assume for anyone to really grow up and move past the habits and thought patterns they absorb and exhibit as children. Teachers are trained to respond to behavior problems non-judgmentally and without anger, making it clear that a child's violation of the classroom's social contract does not tarnish their worthiness or humanity in any way. I've since adopted this way of doing things in my online interactions, and it has been highly effective in both facilitating productive interactions, sussing out and disarming bad actors, and helping in my own mental health management. All this to say: criticism and shaming are vastly different things, and it is dangerous to mix the latter in with the former. But because it is so difficult and emotionally unintuitive to divorce the idea from the person espousing it, especially for people who have never really known morality, emotions, or identity outside of the context of shame, we perpetuate the cycle, sinking deeper and deeper into our righteous intentions. This isn't to say that some behaviors should be tolerated or allowed space, but the way we prune them needs to be itself pruned of shaming language and tactics. This is why I think discourse has a greater chance of being productive on small-scale, moderated forum communities rather than All Bedrooms, No Walls social media like Twitter. Say what you will about Reddit- and there are certainly valid criticisms to be had- but the fact that every community has its social contract posted right there on the sidebar is IMO a very positive thing. Moderation will still ultimately be subjective, but it is done by actual human beings operating on a transparent code. I have a lot to say about this, but maybe I should get off my butt and do my own video instead of just taking to the comments! :)

Cancelling isn't about celebrities. The real problem with cancel culture is the effect it has on everyone else. Steven Pinker cannot be cancelled, but the attempt to cancel Pinker sends a signal to every graduate student: fall in line, uphold our status quo, or you won't be able to have a career.

@LimeyLassen

4 жыл бұрын

"uphold our status quo".. who's the "us" here? People on Twitter? They don't own the status

@krombopulos_michael

4 жыл бұрын

@@LimeyLassen in the case of Pinker, it was 600 people "from the linguistic community". I don't know if I'd call it a status quo, but I would say its trying to intimidate people into not stepping out of line with the current woke party line, which I'd say is fair given how mild the things Pinker said are.

@krombopulos_michael

4 жыл бұрын

I agree. It's not just about the people themselves, it's about the environment it creates. JK Rowling can withstand all this backlash over being transphobic, but an online mob could punish me or you much more effectively for saying the same thing if we got doxxed, and that creates a chilling effect. That's not to defend what she said, but if someone without millions of followers does think that way I'd rather they say it so other people can at least argue back and tell them why they're wrong. None of us are perfect, and we never know what opinion we hold could end up being verboten with someone or other, maybe for good reason, or maybe not.

@LimeyLassen

4 жыл бұрын

@@krombopulos_michael But the stuff Rowling was saying wasn't true. She was peddling misinformation. Steven Pinker was too. Creating a chilling effect on misinformation is a good thing.

@MichaelSmith-rn6pq

4 жыл бұрын

Limey Lassen misinformation can be combated without getting people doxxed or fired. That’s what I think the two commenters above were trying to express.