There was a study on king Tut's clothing made at a university. Naturally they were trying for 100% accuracy. They ended up having to find someone who could spin flax with a drop spindle to get linen gauze fine enough; machines couldn't do it. They had to get indigo dye from Japan for one garment because the original dye didn't exist anymore and that was the closest natural color. All to say, even in academic studies, sometimes 100% accuracy just isn't possible.

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

"Reasons V is not an academic" -- when I needed to represent an unknown blue dyestuff from the ancient world, I just went with modern-day fabric paint 😆

@sherryhassler5932

2 жыл бұрын

If I recall correctly, the Egyptian spinners would spin one flax fiber at a time, and use water or spit to connect that fiber to the next one while spinning. Machines just are not set up to do that! It's fascinating the amount of craftsmanship that went into these things.

@marcusfridh8489

2 жыл бұрын

at the texile college of Borås.

@antoniocasias5545

Жыл бұрын

If it’s natural how can you not do it again?

@AudrinaMystique

Жыл бұрын

@@antoniocasias5545 If I remember correctly, it was because the plant species that the dye was made from had gone extinct.

As a swede, I often think about all the deep and vast amount of knowledge that was lost to us when the Christians invaded Scandinavia. They burned asa-books, destroyed altars for the gods and other holy places. That is why most of what we know about the Vikings and the Viking age comes from Iceland, as the crusaders didn't bother crossing the ocean for a long time. Thinking about the hundreds of years of Swedish history and culture that was destroyed in the name of God makes me so incredibly sad and angry.

@tymanung6382

Жыл бұрын

Right wing Catholic and Protestant factions of alleged Christianity wreaked, and still wreak, havoc inside Europe and throughout rest of world---- extremely dangerous!!!

@luciasoosova2182

Жыл бұрын

Same about Slavic history. Many things are heavily christianised and I wanna cry

@alexandraward1248

Жыл бұрын

Umm Christians never 'invaded' Scandinavia. That is factually inaccurate. In actual fact Christianity was adopted by vikings who raided Christian countries and took it home to Norway. Also, Scandinavian kings saw Christianity as politically advantageous. Vikings were pretty notorious raiders of other cultures....go read about the raid of Lindisfarne. The early medieval period was fairly brutal all around.

@piolsen4724

Жыл бұрын

@@alexandraward1248 this is factually true. But it's still fun to meme about Christians "invading". Though, you are correct 😉

@druidriley3163

Жыл бұрын

@@alexandraward1248 - I think Isabelle is talking about what happened AFTER Christians took power. When they start outlawing other religions, burning "heretical" and "demonic" books and destroying non-Christian sacred sites and threaten anyone who wants to worship any other gods with torture and/or death, you can start to believe it's an invasion of an intolerant mindset.

"Historically adequate" seems like a worthy enough goal to me, especially on a modest budget. And keeping it fun is another. However, if one did want to seek out an analog to the wool that would have been available to the Vikings, there are a couple of extant breeds of sheep that could get close. According to "The Fleece and Fiber Sourcebook" (Robson and Ekarius 2011), Icelandic sheep were brought to Iceland by the Vikings in the 9th and 10th century CE, and no other sheep have been allowed in since. Then there's the Old Spelsau/Villsau breed in Norway, which is well over 1000 years old. Both are double-coated, multi-colored breeds, and the book even recommends "Viking-style combs" for preparing Icelandic wool for spinning. Apparently the Viking Ship Museum in Roskilde, Denmark, had the sail for their replica Viking ship 'Ottar' woven from Old Spelsau wool. Unless you wanted to spend a whole LOT of time and money acquiring genuine Icelandic or Old Spelsau wool to spin, weave, and dye your own fabric...it would be beautiful, but not many people will have the time, cash, and skills to go that far. On Etsy, a single Icelandic fleece is going for $150, and I hate to think how long it might take to make two colors of wool fabric for the kirtle and apron dress. First, learn how to spin and weave...(I can knit, but I'm sure a sweater dress would NOT be authentically Viking). Hurrah for "historically adequate".

@emppulina

2 жыл бұрын

Also Åland sheep is considered very primitive and it is used to make Finnish ironage style textiles, when the costume historians want to make the remakes as authentic as possible.

@ma7418

2 жыл бұрын

In Sweden we have the Gute sheep which is an old breed with a wool which is coarser than modern breeds. It is the descendant of the first sheep in Sweden. The wool is warm and water repellant.

@rayblobfish2739

2 жыл бұрын

I'm sure a modern sweater dress wouldn't be quite historically accurate, but since wool (one of the main types of fabric outerwear would have probably been made of) has to be spun into yarn first and then woven, it's entirely possible they had something similar to a sweater dress, or at least a sweater, rather than spinning it and wasting the fabric. They also probably made quilts out of the scraps, so that's historically adequate too!!

@TheBusyJane

2 жыл бұрын

Learning to spin isn't very hard. Just make sure you start with a longer staple roving.

I think the average “Viking”(there’s a *lot* of years involved here) woman would be amazed by the brightness of the red and the deep fastness of the black(yay for modern dye) but otherwise they would approve. It looks well made, appropriate for the weather, and looks good on you!

@wlonkery

2 жыл бұрын

“There’s a lot of years involved here” yes, exactly, and a lot of geography! We have some textual evidence from cross-dressing cases in settlment-period Iceland about what was considered normal and acceptable for women to wear, but that doesn’t tell us too much about what women at that time were wearing in Denmark, let alone what women were wearing among, say, the Kievan Rus’ a hundred years later!

@SIC647

2 жыл бұрын

Madder makes a very bright red and has been used for several thousand years as a dye. It is what the Danish flag was originally dyed with. 🇩🇰 Yes, that bright. Black you make by dyeing a piece of fabric first with madder (red), then woad (same chemical as indigo, so blue) and then darken it with iron. Totally possible, was done, and the exam of a master dyer was to dye a black flag. A flag since the treatment easily weakened the wool, so you needed to be skilled to get black, but not destroy the wool. In other words: They had black, but it was very expensive. So probably only royalty and nobility wore black.

@Amy_the_Lizard

2 жыл бұрын

Personally, I think they'd more than approve of the colors - they'd want to know how you got them, either so they can have super red clothes too, or so they could sell it to other people in their community that'd want super bright clothes

@Amy_the_Lizard

2 жыл бұрын

@@SIC647 For what it's worth, it's appaently easier if you start with wool that's already pretty dark (like the wool from black or brown sheep,) but even then it's not an easy color to make, but you could probably lower costs enough to get some black or almost black clothes within the budget of some of the wealthier non-nobles - especially since dark wool was generally cheaper than white wool since you were more limited on what colors you could dye it (this is also why monks robes tended to be dark - they were made from the undyed wool of dark sheep)

@GeneralKenobi75

2 жыл бұрын

@@Amy_the_Lizard Exactly. In fact, the Norse really liked bright colors. One of the things that bugs me in shows like Vikings or movies like the Norseman that the "Vikings" wore drab browns and furs. Norsemen, especially the nobles, liked bright and fashionable clothes.

I love the truthful talk about the folly of chasing the perfection of total historical accuracy. I like to learn as much as I can about making things like they did and using and trying past techniques but I am definitely on team historically adequate. It also depends on the time and energy I have handy. I say to each their own, in how accurate they would like to be. Also, Hell yeah metal viking V!

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

100%! Just because we may want to *learn* about historical methods doesn't meant they're feasible in the modern world.

@dr.gwendolyncarter5048

2 жыл бұрын

Historically adequately... I like it!

@bknesheim

2 жыл бұрын

Historical accuracy is always a very blurry target since people then as now did not all use the same garments. It will differ based on age, social status, location, personal preferences, etc and anyone thinking they have the final accurate answer will be wrong.

@boops1192

2 жыл бұрын

Also, the insistence we use the finest needles on the planet is simply ridiculous! See also: magnifying glass size stitches. The Modern Maker, here on ye olde KZread (and the single fastest hand stitcher I’ve ever witnessed), advises use of #4-5 needles as neither the needle size nor threads of the Medieval period could be finer with any efficacy. You’d need factories for such fineries. Bonus, these larger needles behave a bit more like modern ballpoints in separating fabric weave versus tearing into and breaking woven threads. This maintains fabric and thread integrity, prolonging the life of garments. The more we practice and learn historical crafts, the more they begin to make sense and we naturally develop into similar techniques. The lower class garments likely have the most to teach, but are less accessible. These garments are more utilitarian and reused/refitted eventually becoming cleaning rags or torches.

And even if they found an absolutely complete burial tomorrow with every stitch present ant accounted for, all it would say for certain is that *THAT PARTICULAR DRESS* is made that way. It would be a good general guideline, certainly. But these were garments made at home, with what they had available. I was going to say that there were as many ways to sew a dress as there were people sewing them, but that's not even true. There were more, because every time they went to make a dress they would have different supplies, different amounts of fabric, different ideas about what they wanted... Every one was different. So we can, through research and archaeology and general consensus, get a pretty good idea of a historically accurate silhouette, but there are a million ways to achieve that silhouette, and I guarantee the original wearers found all of them!

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

I agree so much! In the cases where we found an extant dress, now we know . . . How to make *one* dress.

"No nazis in Valhalla" me: ::tears of joy:: Also, very nice hand-stitching! I've worked a desk job for 30 years and my shoulders and wrists are no longer up for that kind of repetitive motion for long. So, I am admiring yours instead.

@kittimcconnell2633

2 жыл бұрын

My friend Stephanie does Scandinavian costume for living history events and finds that the keyhole brooch helps pull the dress & neckline forward. Otherwise, it tends to fall backwards and choke the wearer a bit.

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

Accessibility looks different for everyone! I handsew because my shoulders dislike the machine, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing the opposite.

@suzzanahbessette6989

2 жыл бұрын

I machine sew almost everything because I have carpal tunnel in both hands and have had tendon surgery in one of them. No shame at all, just use whatever method works best for you if you are interested. We can admire the look of historical clothing while enjoying the benefits of living in the 21st century!

@aquabluerose7734

2 жыл бұрын

I was also glad to see the "no Nazis in Valhalla" thing! As someone who watches lots of stuff relating to Vikings ranging from anime to music videos it always bums me out that KZread videos of anything Viking tend to get tons of racists in the comments sections. Also that is the best hand stitching I've ever seen!

@LadyDragonbane

2 жыл бұрын

That's such a great line! I'm Norwegian and find it so frustrating how nazis and white supremacists give our history a horrible name (and obviously it's hurtful to other cultures/ethnicities but this is from my point of view). I love how everyone can band together against those jerks.

I love this. I also love how more and more CosTubers are using the term "historically adequate" everything we do in the pursuit of historical accuracy is nothing but an interpretation. We do not live like they did, (and if we do, it's because we chose to, for a short period of time, knowing that we have a home with central heating and internet) so nothing we make can truly be "accurate" with that in mind. To say nothing of many gatekeepers within communities. I learnt how to nalbind, finally figured out how to do a new stitch, so I'm making pink mittens for the winter. The techniques and colours existed in the 10th century, so they are historically plausible (and that makes me very happy inside)

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

When people ask me if I'd want to live "back then" I explain that in my 100+ year old house, I have to boil water on the stove if I want a hot bath. They usually stop asking. Those mittens sound adorable!

I feel like when people say "historically accurate" they either mean (1) going as far as you can with what we know and what is available, or (2) not doing things we know didn't happen... but still people are too strict, I like your approach wherr you acknowledge the limitations and what we know or don't know. That's the good stuff when it comes to discussing history.

Historical accuracy? I’m giggling a little as I’m currently stitching a 1900s blouse, on a 1905 treadle, out of black cotton with cat skeletons on it! Historical accuracy is what you make of it. I love a good reproduction, but I equally love a bit of anachronism. Anyone who has the gall to say anything about others’ taste in clothing can get stuffed. Your Viking garb turned out beautifully btw.

As you say, if you don't have multiple complete extant examples, there's no way of knowing how the clothes actually worked. SO... you do you :-) Even for periods where you do start to get more extant garments coming through, there's the survival bias that means it's more likely to be the fancy clothes worn by rich people that survive, not the everyday ones that got worn, handed down, re-worn, re-made, handed down again. If you're hand-sewing, standard machine polyester thread isn't the nicest to use, but if it's what you can get/afford, it's what you use! (Yes I treat myself to silk thread for hand-sewing, not the fancy Japanese stuff though). I'm sure Jimmy (@TheWelshViking) would say you're less implausible than the HBO "Vikings"!!

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

Well said 👏👏👏! Jimmy is 100% at fault for the existence of Viking Metal V and he well knows it.

@azteclady

2 жыл бұрын

@@SnappyDragon this reply is making my heart sing.

@joanaloneathome

2 жыл бұрын

i thought it's everybody's own chose in how keen on historical accuracy they want to be? Jimmy knows his stuff and makes videos about which part of Viking shows/ games/ etc. are just unlikely to have existed during the Viking Age. I don't see what's the problem with that..?

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

@@joanaloneathome I don't see a problem with that either! That's exactly what I'm saying, it's everyone's own choice how much they want to pursue historical accuracy in their costuming. Whatever their goal is, that's a fine goal for them to have.

@joanaloneathome

2 жыл бұрын

​@@SnappyDragon ok I'm glad to hear that! Maybe I just took the meaning of your previous comments the wrong way... Anyway I love your content and this video, Viking Metal V is definitely my new aesthetic inspiration;)

Well said! I especially appreciate the part about how the wool is different today because sheep have been bred for specific purposes over centuries. Wool for industrial equipment is so different than wool from the dual coated land race sheep most likely used in the Viking Age. Lovely video! 👏🧶❤

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

I knew you would have the details about the sheep! 💚

@jvnd2785

2 жыл бұрын

We do have several rare/native breeds that we can trace back to the Viking age. Soay and Boreray in the UK...Spelsau, Gammelnorsk sau and Faroese in the North. You may not find it in the shop (I have worked with rare British wool for years and never have seen a mill producing cloth from 100% Soay), but it is possible to recreate a cloth as closely to the original as possible. The good thing about say Soay is it's natural brown/moorit colouring- meaning you don't have to dye it. And it can be spun, with a bit of practice, into fairly fine yarn (I have spun and woven 100% Soay and Soay/flax blend before, it's not too tricky to work with it) - it could work great for the Viking apron.

@patpierce4854

2 жыл бұрын

@@jvnd2785 Another breed of sheep to consider is the Icelandic sheep; brought to the island with the first settlers, the descendants *are still there*! And, Iceland prohibits importation of other breeds of sheep (same story for for the Icelandic Horse!). Their wool is usually a creamy white, but browns and blacks show up as well. I believe Icelandic Sheep have been exported off the island, so their wool could be available if you look around. Most modern Icelandic sweaters are knit from this sturdy wool.

@jvnd2785

2 жыл бұрын

@@patpierce4854, Icelandic sheep is a fairly old breed but the Vikings introduced the breed to Iceland (crossing their Old Spelsau types) only at the end of their era. Since then, there were many changes happening to the gene pool of the Icelandic sheep...Remember, we are not talking about the past 80 years here, but the past 1000 years.

My group has Rules about what's acceptable, but they do also acknowledge that not everyone can use wool etc, both due to allergies and cost, so it amounts to 'as long as it looks right' and there's a lot of interpretation goes on. If you want to do something non-standard but have evidence for it, then the authenticity bods will probably pass it. It'd be silly if everyone was dressed exactly the same! They also have additional health & safety rules which mean the battles aren't accurate - everyone, no matter how basic the rest of their kit, has to have a helmet and protective gloves. One thing they are pretty hot on is colours - you don't have to plant dye unless you want to, but the colours have to be ones achievable with plant dyes and they encourage people to be colourful, because too many people think the past was shades of mud. Black is banned, but the amount of crossover with metalheads is a big part of that, because if it were allowed, most people would probably be in black! The other issue is status - if you're going to wear a deep blue or red, which would have required a lot of dye and been expensive to do, then you should have period-appropriate bling to go with it. Silk should only be worn with strong colours and bling. Conversely, if you've got bling, you shouldn't be wearing it with brown/undyed or undecorated kit. Until I came along, most of my boyfriend's kit was shades of brown with no trim and he didn't even have shoes. For me, the fun is in making the things, more than the actual reenactment, so yes I want to spin and weave and maybe dye the fabric for a kyrtle of my own, but because I find the process interesting and a fun challenge and also because I want to be able to say "well, I made this fleece-to-garment, and it took me " when explaining things to the public, not because I think everyone should, and I don't enjoy working with flax so I won't be trying to make my own linen fabric.

I’m an adjunct music history teacher, and I’m currently teaching baroque and classical to a group of undergraduate students. We discussed the idea of “historically accurate” performance practice, and that at the end of the day, our best recreations are still only an informed approximation. It’s actually very humorous to me, because many vocal genres such as the cantata and early opera were attempts by late 16th and early 17th c. Scholars to recreate the music of Ancient Greece, but in effect they created entirely new music with an entirely unique sound. Historically informed is, I believe, good enough for most people who are not actually doing a doctorate in textile history, lol

@ragnkja

2 жыл бұрын

Depending on the goals of the thesis, modern fabrics can be perfectly fine for an archaeologist’s dissertation. If the goal is to test what the cut of a particular bog body’s clothes was like, you don’t necessarily have the time or resources to get hand-spun, hand-woven wool, and you probably don’t need to!

It's 100% historically accurate to use what's available to you given geographical and financial constraints! Our ancestresses didn't use [particular fabric or haberdashery] because it was the best option ever, but because it's What There Was. I like "historically adequate" and think that silhouettes and the overall character of a garment or outfit is more important than the precise details. We shouldn't sacrifice our enjoyment of the overall themes if we can't be absolutely faithful to every last detail. After all, this exact human didn't exist in 793 either!

I like the idea and challenge of trying to be historically accurate. I like the feeling of connecting to the past and people who made and wore the garments. However, it feels like it's often turned into an elitist ideal, an expectation, and a judgement. It puts pressure on those who are in the community, or who want to start creating, to be "perfect". And that can make it inaccessible with ability, cost, interest, skill, etc.

I'm a historical reenactor, and I just want to say this: If you're not a reenactor, why bother with 100% accuracy? To be honest, it's quite exhausting and impossible.

@TorchwoodPandP

2 жыл бұрын

Could not have said that better mtself!

@katlambert2512

2 жыл бұрын

100% My 11th century anglo-saxon garb is as historically accurate as I can make it (including natural hand dye) because I am a member of a living history group. My 17th/18th century late piracy stuff? Historically adequate in silhouette, cuts and colour.

@ashildrtheswift3028

2 жыл бұрын

@@katlambert2512 We do 9th century Danish vikings, but it can be extremely difficult to be sure of what's correct and what isn't. There's a lot of discussions between reenactors

@a.k.v.3042

2 жыл бұрын

@@ashildrtheswift3028 That's part of the fun, though, right? Having those types of conversations.

@Niobesnuppa

2 жыл бұрын

As long as they're not dressing up as characters from Thor and acting like that's accurate to Viking age clothing, I don't really care that much. I think historical accuracy mainly matters when it comes to people potentially being misinformed. One thing I also find bothersome is when people act like we know nothing about Viking clothing, and therefore you can just dress as whatever and claim it's accurate. We don't know enough, but we definitely do know more than nothing. Thankfully for creative people, though, we know just little enough for people to kind of let loose and be creative about how they think Vikings dressed while still being as accurate as we can be. I've seen some really cool shapes people have used for the apron dresses, and it's hard to say which one is more accurate than the other.

I usually approach my historical sewing adventures with an "we can't prove they DIDN'T do it that way"-attitude Also Metal Viking is so delightfully norwegian, I love it!

@Hair8Metal8Karen

2 жыл бұрын

Have you seen the movie Bill? It's about the "lost years" of William Shakespeare from the cast of Horrible Histories/Yonderland/Ghosts and in an interview one of the writers said "We can't prove that this didn't happen, it's unlikely but it could have happened!"

I’ve always thought the concept of historical accuracy was, well, inaccurate because of the variation you’ll always find amongst people. I doubt there was ever a time when everyone was wearing the same style. That’s just not how people behave. There might have been a general standard but people will always make changes to suit their own needs and preferences.

As a scandinavian pagan, on the norse side of the spectra, it make me sad, that anything remotly associated with my, and my ansestors faith, have to come with a "No nazis"- disclaimer. And yeah historical plausable, is better than accurate.

@hellybelle5

2 жыл бұрын

Any comments comparing white people to evil people is a huge offput to me, as it totally detracts from the object of the video.

@jcolterh

Жыл бұрын

She hates white people. She can hardly do a video without talking about "white supremacy" or her Jewishness.

@Willie5000

Жыл бұрын

@@hellybelle5 Nobody is saying all white people are evil though.

@hellybelle5

Жыл бұрын

@@Willie5000 I've heard loads of people saying it.

As someone who recently had a terrible encounter at a RenFair for not being "historically accurate enough", I appreciate how the community at large is not that way. Not everyone's goal is historical accuracy, not everyone enjoys chasing that impossible goal. I'm someone who hates hand sewing, and so use a machine for the vast majority of my costumes. I like to say that the women in the past would have happily welcomed the speed that comes along with the machine work, and therefore it's hisotrically accurate to the attitutde

I made a viking apron to go over the top of a poofy sleeved under dress recently (it's a mash up between kirtle and a 1700s men's undershirt). I used the same overall pattern as in the video for the apron, but I changed the shoulder straps to be sewn down to give it a more modern look. It's interesting how little you have to change about the garment to make it look modern. It's so cute and comfy I wear it to work all the time. 10/10 everyone should try their hand at making one of these!

I lean more towards the historically inspired than the historically accurate. For later periods I get a lot of my inspiration from art, which may or may not be illustrating actual clothing and armor, but I feel like if an artist could paint it, surely someone could sew it.

Viking Metal V looks pretty awesome. And I like the discussion on historical accuracy. I hope that the prominent discussions of historically adequate continue, so that new people feel welcome and not intimidated to enter this community. When I first started following a few years ago it felt easy to be paralyzed by all the knowledge it felt necessary to find just to participate. But if you want to make a pretty dress to prance around in an appropriate location and hang out with friends, it shouldn't matter if it came from a big 4 pattern or from a super detailed and researched self drafted pattern.

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you friend! I'm glad the change is starting to take.

I super appreciate you removing the barriers to entry by opening up the definition of historical accuracy! My lil cosplayer heart has been yearning to play around in viking age and medieval clothing, but I’ve been way too intimidated until this point!

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

Yesss please come play!

@ShannonMakes

2 жыл бұрын

also, with a user name such as yours, I have to feel like you would only enrich the community by joining!

@Fool_of_a_Toque

2 жыл бұрын

@@ShannonMakes awww thank you and @SnappyDragon for the warm welcome!! 🥰

For me (as a re-enactor) the issue of “historically accurate” is a complex one. When I’m working at a Faire or Festival & my whole reason for being there is to show how people in the past lived, yes I absolutely try my hardest to give the most accurate portrayal that I can. But if I’m going to a Faire, Festival, or a Ball just to have fun & dress up, then historical accuracy definitely takes a backseat.

I think one thing that many folks don't take into account when discussing "historically accurate" clothing is the fact that regional and personal preferences existed hundreds of years ago, just like they do today. If we could go back in time and round up a hundred women from all over the territories the Vikings inhabited, and take a survey of what they were wearing, we'd find a range of differences due to era (roughly 8th through 11th centuries) age (teenager to elderly woman), marital status (unmarried maiden, wife, widow), social status (wife of a chieftain, widow of a soldier, slave girl) and geographical location (Greenland, Iceland, Great Britain, Scandinavia, Northern France, parts of Russia, etc.). There is not a single, definitive garment that would fit all those parameters at once. So the idea that we can cobble together something from various archeological clues and say, "This is historically accurate," is a bit foolish. All we can do is reference the evidence we have and say that we are making garments that "depict" historical dress.

I would absolutely love a video on the making of the dress. As you said, we can never be truly accurate short of finding a full outfit or building a time machine. I enjoy seeing the many different translations of these scraps we find.

@hellsingmongrel

2 жыл бұрын

Even with building a time machine, the outfits you'd buy in one village may be different from those in another village, simply because of difficulty of travel between locations making it hard for people to intermingle and because of religious or cultural differences. It just makes it even harder for us, now, to get a concrete idea of what the overarching style was for a given region in those days.

This really made me think about what I actually want my historical costumes to be. I'm interested in knowing the most accurate information available on what people wore in the past and making my garments /look/ as close to that as possible, since I can't afford metres and metres of silk, have no interest in weaving things myself, the materials literally don't exist anymore, etc. Of course, that doesn't mean everyone should have the same goals with their costumes as I do. I appreciate people like you who are clear about what historical information they're working off and how closely they're sticking to that in which aspects of the project -- that way they can make what they want, and I can still learn the little historical details that make me so excited. I think the term "historically adequate" is really useful.

It turned out amazing! And everyone should be as “historically accurate” as they want and can be, and shouldn’t be shamed even if the answer to that is “none”. :)

Literally the only reason I make historical clothes is because I want to wear pretty outfits, and I enjoy making them. I'll use whatever fabric I have lying around or can scrounge second hand, and a sewing machine if that'll get the job done - I applaud costumers who commit to more historically accurate reconstruction projects if that's what they want to do, but that's not my goal. And that's okay!

I mean, even with the sparse extant garments we do have, how would we even know if they represent the typical dress of that time and place? Maybe that was great great (x however many) aunt Hilda's dress, and she was always a bit unconventional.

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

And also, they're nearly all from people's graves! We don't bury people today in their everyday clothes most of the time. Why would we assume Viking age people did?

@lenabreijer1311

2 жыл бұрын

@@SnappyDragon pagans would bury them with their best finery, their party clothing. The family would want that as a status statement.

@saraquill

2 жыл бұрын

I’m convinced if someone wore period clothes stolen from a museum, someone out there will call it inaccurate on the grounds only some people wore that style.

@lenabreijer1311

2 жыл бұрын

@@saraquill well they would probably be faded and disintegrating and probably altered. And survival bias would certainly suggest that only a few people wore it so they wouldn't be wrong. Only rich people's clothing survives after all.

That’s an excellent summary of how to approach historical accuracy, in my opinion. Apart from the point that judging someone’s work based on our own views hardly ever benefits anybody, in this case there is no solid truth. With the only exemption for rewriting history, all levels of historical accuracy or inspiration are perfectly fine in my book. And this one came out beautiful! Thanks V, and thanks Viking Metal V!

Oh, I just LOVE this ensemble! Everything of it. I think accuracy is a quest everyone starts on their own, and no beginner knows where they will be going. As a novice in this field, I try to focus on construction and plausibility. But since I do not even know if I will wear my medieval clothes anytime anyplace out of my apartment, I thought wool might be a waste, and bought a linen/cotton blend. We will see. :) P.S. No Nazis in Valhalla has the potential of a battle cry. ;)

Although I have a personal interest in double coated sheep, warp weighted looms and natural dye stuffs, I completely agree with you... we gain nothing attempting to police other people's methods.

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

0.0 color me impressed. Weaving and natural dyes are to me, on a level with particle physics.

I love this so much! Everything here is so spot on, and I'm only throwing out a historical sheep and wool fact because I think others might also find it interesting, but we do still have the same / very similar types of sheep! Using their wool requires enough work that it makes more sense for the average costumer to just buy the fabric, but it's not *technically* impossible. The Livestock Conservancy and related Shave Em to Save Em sites have much more info, so if anyone ever WANTS to do that, there are options if one has the fortitude, skills, and tools, but no one should ever be made to feel that they MUST go to that length.

I'm absolutely amazed by your talent. I grew up in Southern Appalachia, and watching you sew and cut patters reminds me of my grandmother. She preferred to make her own dresses (always hand sewing them), and she always saved cloth by using simple patterns that used triangles and rectangles. Unless, of course, she was making a dress for church. Then she would roll out her pleating skills and a foot-powered sewing machine. I have fond memories of helping her choose fabric and cutting patterns from cloth. I actually told her that I was gay while doing a baptismal smock for my sister, and all she said was, "Who cares? God made us all different, like the different shapes of a pattern for a dress. Then she (grandma was the only Baptist I knew that always called God she) stitches us together with bonds of love so we can help support each other." Thanks so much for these videos! I know it's not your goal, but they make me feel slightly closer to my grandmother. Right up to your amazing common decency and social justice stances. On another note: do you do commissioned work? If so, I'd love to order a clergy stole!

This is so cool! I've been doing SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) for about 11 years now, which comes with varying levels of "historical accuracy", hence "creative" anachronism, though generally closer to real life than say, LARPers or RenFaire enthusiasts (Not that there's anything at all wrong with that! Those are super fun too, just tend to have less of a focus on historical garments, and more on historical-based fantasy, which is honestly super neat itself!!). Norse costume tends to be pretty popular considering the accessibility of it (Relatively straightforward to make, comfortable, fashionable), I've worn it myself several times before. Watching you make this makes me feel so homey 🥰 Also super appreciate the title card, as a queer/trans Native person, having to navigate historical (especially Viking/Norse) costuming spaces can be a little dicey at times.

This was wonderful! I think your point about the impossibility of “actual” historically accurate costuming is really freeing and makes this hobby so much more accessible! ❤️

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

Aww, thank you! I was hoping it would 💚

Canadian reenactor here, and in 2014 we were lucky enough to fulfil a decades-long dream and spend a week in Newfoundland at L'anse aux Meadows! Needless to say I photographed the hell out of *everything,* documenting every nook, cranny, and detail! (I was fascinated to see their very sturdy and functional door hinges were basically the same design as Lego hinges, with pegs top and bottom set into sockets! I was also rather put out, after having dreamed of being able to get a really good, close-up view of the hearths in the flesh, so to speak, to finally see the last few details that I couldn't quite make out in any of the photos from the original dig--none of the photos I've found released to the public were from the POV of the viewer being able to accurately reproduce them from the photos, of course-- to discover that the originals were reburied, along with the rest of the site, when they realized it was beginning to degrade in the weather, even roofed over, so that it would all be preserved for future study; and that the reproduction houses nearby were *not* 100% accurate!! The supporting sod walls were required to have concrete shells hidden within them to be regarded as safe enough for the public to enter--which of course also causes the supporting wood to rot faster than it would otherwise, since the water from the roof, which rests upon, rather than overlapping, the walls, gets trapped against the concrete, soaking the wood, rather than draining away through the sod, which of course both waters the sod, and allows for faster movement of the water away from the wooden posts). Anyways! Sorry, I have a point, I swear, lol! Anyways, we were able to time our visit with some kind of gala that they were hosting, and each visitor was gifted a little pouch (about 2x3"), of red cloth, that was dyed with the correct red dye 'vadmal'. And that red cloth is almost the precise same shade as your red fabric (so far as I can tell on my monitor)! So I think that your red fabric is perfectly acceptable, down to the shade of red. :D

I don’t really feel like anybody can be completely totally 100% historically accurate. It’s just not possible to 100% accurate. Multiple reasons for this some that you mentioned, and some that you haven’t. You did bring up the issue that our modern materials are just not the same as what was available in the past. Our modern fabrics and thread are usually “close enough”, but they will never be perfect. Lots of time periods and cultures we just don’t have strong evidence for how the clothes worked. All we can do is guess at them and hope it’s close enough to accurate. The other part that hinders “historical accuracy” is ourselves. We aren’t medieval people, or whatever other time period we are dressing up as. We haven’t been steeped in the culture or the manners and protocols of the culture. At best, we make an attempt at recreating what it would have been like, but we really can’t be perfectly historically accurate there either.

Great work, love how you made your hangeroc, the shape makes so much more sense than the simple apron design you see many re-enactors opting for. For accuracy for Viking age Scandinavian clothing, black dye is avoided as we do know that the only black dye they had in Scandinavia at the time was from Oak galls and was unstable without a mordant.... It generally just produced a dark brown instead.

This is right up my aisle!!! Edit: I really appreciated what you said about historical accuracy. I've been stressed while putting together my own Viking costume and rethinking everything even tho I know I can make changes down the road when I have more time and money to spend on my kit. Also you made a lovely apron dress.

Love the vid - I really appreciate the narration about construction but also historical context and general historical costuming philosophy as well.

It looks great! You did a wonderful job on it. I love the color combination. The one thing we're 'fairly' certain of is that they loved using bright colors. You are so right about the historical accuracy, anybody who makes historical clothing does so for their own reasons and according to what they can afford. We will likely never know the whole truth of Viking women's clothing. Or the men's either, for that matter. Very nice work.

When you talked about how the pin went thru loops sewn to the front and back of the dress, a light bulb went off in my head. Others have talked about the pins, but you are the first to say how they are used. Thank you.

This is so lovely

i totally feel you with the problems around historical accuracy. i'm an archaeologist myself and have worked in several geographic regions, and i'm blessed that one of them is northern Peru, with fantastic preservation including textiles, but places like the southeastern US, with its acidic, moist soils, are not so lucky. there are certain places where we know enormous amounts about what the people wore, and others where unfortunately we know almost nothing, and it really is going to take some kind of pompeii level preservation miracle for something solid to be found. there's all these little fragments of knowledge, and how someone pieces them together and what they use to fill the gaps depends on their perspective. i find that the best people for the job are the craftspeople who are actually following in their footsteps, troubleshooting what is and isn't plausible from what evidence we have, like janet stephens' awesome hairstyle recreations, musical recreations from ancient instruments, and all these lovely historical garments! awesome look! (also that watercolor duvet is so beautiful!)

Love this!! Definitely in the historical dress realm, it should be up to each person (and their budget) what materials they may use. Depending on where you live it can be very hard to even get modern substitutes also

I love your outfit and the matching dramatic make-up!

I love the “Historically Adequate” descriptor! I do as historically accurate costuming as I can but with super early European stuff the evidence is so fragmentary that it’s mostly guess work and extrapolation anyway. My Viking apron dress looks amazingly like yours, except it’s dark blue.

I absolutly love everything about this video! Thank you, V!

I loved seeing your crooked cutting. Mine is often very very crooked, and seeing someone else cut not perfectly makes me feel a little better about my choppy lines.

I love your channel . I’m glad to see the exact way they were sewn

As a history interested Swedish person who studied a small course of Viking history at university I just wanted to say thank you for your video. 🙂 I've no idea about the accuracy of the clothes but it's always really fun to learn about your own history from people who know what they're talking about. 🙂

I do Common Placing with my writing (recording quotes that stand out to me as impactful or something I could see applying to my writing down the road) and I'm spending a lot of time pausing and rewinding on this vid!! You always have such a clean, frank, yet playful way of expressing yourself in your videos. The narration alone is enough to hang around, let alone the visual fun!

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! 💚💚💚

@trenae77

2 жыл бұрын

@@SnappyDragon your channel has really been a wonderful find. So very little is publicly shared about the lives of Jews in Europe outside of the “big events”. History is written by those in power; too true, but at the same time broadly exaggerated. It’s not so much that other histories don’t exist, as the common non-Jew doesn’t often see a reason to search. Personally, I prefer to know the whole story, even if it ends up painting my own ancestors in a negative light, it is what happened and what should be known regardless. So it is a delight to find someone who not only can shed light on the lesser known histories, and shares a love of historical fashion in the process.

I've always thought "historically appropriate" would be a better term to use. Other than that, I don't have much to say other than great job!

I really enjoyed this content! It looks like you really enjoyed yourself in making this video and apparel. The sharp contrast of red on black (or dark blue?) dazzles the eye. Good job! I love Viking-oriented stuff since Vikings is my favorite show and I have a bit of Scandinavian in my ancestry. Subscribed!

I love this whole thing!! Beautifully made

Absolutely love it V! Killin it!! I’m all here for the historically adequate. That’s all anyone can ask anyways. Just trying to do your best and be happy and excited to wear what you made.

i greatly appreciate your note on costuming. as someone who wants to start, I've always been greatly intimidated by the thought of NEEDING to be accurate. Even though thats not what i WANT, it's felt a requirement. I'm definitely more into that classic Hollywood medieval look such as Susan's dresses in the Narnia movies, and that cottagecore vibe (aka what's essentially historic underpants, a chemise and stays/corset). hearing what I've known as a certified historically accurate costuber say that costuming is what *you* want it to be really helps me alot. i suffer from anxiety and low self esteem and just. grown up being told that things are wrong if they aren't: 1. accurate to the setting. 2. accurate to the BEGINNING of whatever it is. (think: you can't be a fan if you didn't consume the media when it released) 3. seperate from anyone else. yes. that's right. I got in trouble for liking things other members of my family liked. because of this I'm always tenative to try new things, typically requiring extensive research, as many 'go-aheads' from veterans of whatever as i can, and finally, the courage to make the leap. So thank you for that. that go ahead I always need to reassure my doubts.

Great video! The outfit looks great! Thanks for posting.

omg i just died at the way you made binding, how have i never seen that before!!!

I think there should be room for every approach, from tending to be as close from historical practice as we know them now (and acknowledging the part of interpretation if not fantasy in that work) to going full modern prints, machine sewing, and contemporary reinterpretation, and everything in between. If someone wants to process the fleece of a heirloom breed of sheep, good for them. Recreating an iron age loom, learning tablet weaving? Have at it! Choosing the most readily available materials and techniques and what suits your budget? Well I can't think of a more historical approach. I love the whole spectrum from end to end. I take pleasure from Sally Pointer and Angela Clayton's videos. What they have in common, and I think they share it with the makers of the past, is creativity. The important thing is to let people have their fun! And not give unsolicited advice. On a completely different note, is there a continuity that anyone knows of between the apron dress of the Norse and the more recent russian one? The Varangians, or Rus, that would form the core of the future Russia where after all Scandinavians. So is it convergence or kinship?

Love watching your handstitching, so relaxing. Am a firm believer of adequately historical . The dress and apron are lovely.

love the dresses you made and also your take on it! i'm a living historist/reenactor, so i try to strive for as much historical accuracy as possible, knowing my own limitations (time, money, sources, skills...) and also the general limitations you mentioned (lack of evidence, modern circumstances...). for me it is very important to know about what is historically plausible so i can make decisions about it. for example - i know what stitches were used, so i can use them in my sewing, but it is impossible for me to have my own sheep, spin their wool and weave my own fabric. i want to make informed decisions for myself, but also so i can tell visitors at events (mostly i museums) what i did and how it is backed up by evidence. the phareses i use most are "we don't know for sure...", "we don't have evidence for this, but it could be plausible...", "there are different ways to interpret this...". in general, i'd say, it's always important to state what your take/aim is. what makes me angry are people who claim to be "authentic" although they're not even close to historically plausible. that just gives visitors and people on social media a wrong image of the past and spreads misinformation. doing historically inspired things or fantasy outfits is super cool! i'd just like those people to be honest about it and not claim "this is how people looked back then". as you pointed out, not even archeologists and historians know that, so no one should claim that. usually people who seriously try to be historically accurate know that and would never claim it. at least that's my experience and my take on it. as always, love that you always state your aim/take and make very pretty clothes :)

Realizing even when there are books detailing how to sew something from the time period (for instance sewing practices as laid out by Bertha Banner in "Household Sewing with Home Dressmaking" from the 1890s) they are aspirational, and actually seeing garments made in the time period that categorically do not adhere to such aspirations is comforting. And the way garments were made and remade over time so many hands may have ripped out sleeves and remade them to suit the fashion of the day. Or let out seams, or made the dress smaller for another person. I love the kirtle and the overdress you made here! So swishy and attractive! 👗

Like (love) subscribed! Thank you for all of your hard work 😊

Finally!!! Someone who can appreciate the fur density issues in our livestock over time! Thank you so much for that sheep comment!😁

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

We can pretend I know what fur density means 🤣🤣🤣 Thank you!!

Great video! I'm happy to see you mention rectangular cutting. I'm in the Society for Creative Anachronism. I am known in my area for teaching rectangular construction from taking measurements to a completed garment. My preferred apron style is 4 rectangular body pieces with 4 triangular gores (one of which is pieced from two pieces of fabric) as there is practically zero waste and it's easy to cut out. I love that our only rule for garb is an attempt at pre 17th century clothing as it allows freedom to embrace the "creative" part of our name. My Norse garb is a mix of styles and accessories from 800-1100. I don't know if you play in the SCA but you'd fit in well.

That pin iron method thing was fabulous!!! Also I mostly like just trying out historical methods and using more ‘historical’ fabrics as I try to avoid plastics in my clothing. I also have thermoregulation issues so animal fibers help a lot with that. However I don’t really think there is such thing as historical accuracy in terms of 100% because you aren’t living as they lived and that’s a good thing. We have decent plumbing and loads of other stuff that I’d rather live with than without. I do wish I could get my hands on historical patterns for many different projects but that’s so I can learn more techniques

Such a cool video! And I love your voice when you're narrating!

I just stumbled on your channel today. I’ve only watched a handful of videos so far, not necessarily the ones in line with my competencies (can’t sew a lick, but watched complete as you designed and made a dress 🤣). That’s probably as good a testimonial as any to the quality of your content, and its enjoyability. What I may like best of all, though (aside from your zero tolerance stance on hatred, bigotry and abuse), is your absolutely unapologetic approach to making what interests you to your own set standards. I can’t say enough good about how sensible, self-confident and just plain delightful that is. Thanks for sharing your tremendous knowledge and mad skills - and especially, for your absolute authenticity. No doubt, I’ll be back for more.

Your vids on Medieval jewish and other clothes are really helping me design my DnD characters

Really Enjoy what ive seen on your channel.. I love skirts and dresses. especially long skirts and dresses that flow bigger more material. like kinda old fashion. I used to sew wish i could get back into it.❤️

5:47 “a little bologna link”. Listened to that 3 times and brain just couldn’t. Need more coffee 😅

Thanks for the video, very interesting!

"I'm not an academic. I'm not an historian." You had me fooled. Your content comes across as well-researched and carefully considered.

I'm just amazed at you hand sewing the whole thing. Amazing job!

This was absolutely wonderful to watch! Thank you so so much. This was a wonderful learning video and I learned new things about Vikings that I did not know.

definitely need a tutorial on how to make the cute little sewing roll. it's SO cute!

Your forgiving, accepting manner was lovely.

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

Aww, thank you!

lol @ "Viking Metal V" Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

The ironing board pin bias tape trick! That's brilliant!

I loved this video. I loved the final look as well. I would wear that now and through the Winter. The layers of dress are coming back into fashion and you would look very chic wearing that out to lunch or dinner. The simplicity is what makes it so beautiful. I am not a study in historical garments. I just know what I like and this dress(s) are it. I hope it is ok for me to copy this style from you. I just loved it. Thanks so much for sharing.

Okay, you've got a viking by blood here and instant subscriber with your disclaimer.

I love that you filmed yourself sewing this in bed. I remember your video about being a youtube with a chronic illness, and I love that you show yourself working realistically, as you really are. Also, this is brilliant--I agree with the comment about historical accuracy includes using what is available to you.

Your reminder at 0:35 is truly chilling. Dear God. It is necessary : '(( See you ladies in Valhalla.

yes please to a kirtle video! I started one last year and got stuck on the sleeves - simple rectangular construction but they just don't look right at all

This was lovely. I may need to make one of these soon.

Liked and subscribed. Love your attitude about recreating historical pieces. Also: "No nazis in Valhalla" rocks!

Lovely! In my own sewing, I mostly go for historically plausible, trying to get as near to the originals as possible, but like everyone else, I have to compromise here and there.

For me historically accurate clothing can be made only when you have a complete original garment to work from... any thing else is historically adequate... and I go for historically adequate in my hand sewn garments every time.

I must know where you bought that clip for your handsewing! brilliant!

7:57 oooh, nice trick to press tubes/binding!

I made an apron dress years ago, not as a costume, but using the same pattern you used. For my size, 1.5 yd of 45" leave me with a small strip of waste total, pretty amazing. I used what I could afford, red cotton broadcloth, decorated the top, bottom and straps with lingonberry trim and pinned on some silver brooches I found on etsy. Wore it over a white turtleneck and went to church, nobody stared except a couple people who knew I sewed asked me if I made it and where I got the trim. I've since made two more apron dresses without any trim which I wear basically like a jumper. I would love to make a wool one, it's so nice to work with and hangs so beautifully, but it's not in a price range I can responsibly manage right now, especially when I don't need any new clothes.

The shot of you crafting in bed with your laptop next to you (presumably for entertainment purposes) was so aggressively relatable.

Bravo 👏 all around great story, dress, and message.

Love it!! And Viking Metal V is badass!

Lovely. Up my alley as I'm learning Tablet Weaving. Accuracy is, as you say, impossible, so whichever goal you set is fine. Agree, be honest about the goal, and the result, and let whatever inspiration lights you up free.

@SnappyDragon

2 жыл бұрын

I'm in awe of tablet weaving! I have some supplies and might try it this winter; keep an eye out for me getting hopelessly tangled in yarn 😂

@nixhixx

2 жыл бұрын

@@SnappyDragon watch Elewys of Finchingfield... She's a great resource