This is truly brilliant and true in my 73 years of experience reading countless books on religion and philosophy. Both C.S. Lewis and G. K. Chesterton stand athwart the vast current of blind and decaying secular society. Lewis's understanding of a minute Hell seems to be confirmed by the vastness of the cosmos. We aren't even a speck within it, but God has loved us and given us meaning, if we but choose to accept it. If we don't, it's not the LORD's fault.

@ruaidhri777

Жыл бұрын

Hi. Interestingly, you've wrapped two deceptions into one message. There is no cosmos and there is no hell. Scripture should tell you so. Not here to argue but to inform.

@TristanHayes

Жыл бұрын

​@@ruaidhri777 "Kai eipen autois Poreuthentes eis ton kosmon hapanta keryxate to euangelion pase te ktisei" or "And he said to them: Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." (Mark 16:15) The word "kosmon" which is commonly translated as world, however, is from the Greek "kosmos" or as it is more commonly Anglicized, cosmos. "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28) "And these [the damned] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46) I mean, the whole narrative of Matthew 25:31-46 clearly lays out the reality of hell... "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;" (2 Peter 2:4) "You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?" (Matthew 23:33) "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire." (Mark 9:43) "If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell." (Matthew 5:29) "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!" (Luke 12:5) And the quotes go on... Sorry, Scripture clearly does tell me that there is a hell I must avoid and that there is a cosmos in need of the gospel.

@ruaidhri777

Жыл бұрын

@@TristanHayes Right, thanks for that. I do appreciate the effort you're making to warn me, as every person should if thinking that the afterlife is either eternal paradise or eternal (never ending) conscious (you'll always be experiencing) torment (torture). The etymology of the word cosmos relates to the world, not solar systems, galaxies, stars etc. The word cosmos in many people's minds have changed to hundreds of billions of planets flying about the universe which I think all in all, is one of the greatest satanic deceptions of all time. Investigate that or not, again arguments are not my thing, more so, I'm into telling the truth and planting seeds in people's minds. Whatever you do or think is up to you. I have no aim to change your mind, because it's impossible. So hell... 2 questions for you. Have you looked up all the translations of the word hell in the Greek or Hebrew? If not, to find more truth, you should. Do you think the idea that... a) God loves us so very, very much and b) God will torture you forever if you don't believe Him or if you don't end up realising what the truth is. ... are two statements that conflict? Put another way, is this not an amazing example of 'Double Think'? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

@TristanHayes

Жыл бұрын

​@@ruaidhri777 "Have you looked up all the translations of the word hell in the Greek or Hebrew? If not, to find more truth, you should." Yes. Sheol or Hades, or in Latin: Infernus, refers to the abode of the dead in general, the underworld, properly known as Hell. Gehenna is the lake of fire, named after the valley of Hinnom where fires burned endlessly in the burning of waste. Of course there is a distinction to be made, since Gehenna is the abode of the damned, whereas Hades was the abode of all the dead until Christ died and freed the just captives of the Old Testament who were waiting for him in the Bosom of Abraham. "... are two statements that conflict?" No. Though I would argue you've made a strawman in the second position since it is not necessary to believe that all non-Christians will be damned in order to believe in damnation, but that is besides the point since even that would not be in conflict. For while the Lord has clearly said: "The LORD is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made." He still says '"Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." For God has not made sin nor sinfulness. He loves us as we are His image, but when we sin we eschew the sacred humanity He endowed us with. And while He will have mercy on us should we repent, if we do not repent and do not turn away from our sin, it is precisely because of His love for us, His creation, that He is a harsh judge on us, the sinner.

@ruaidhri777

Жыл бұрын

@@TristanHayes Hi. Thanks for your reply. A few bullet point questions out of interest. - Do you believe that the only way to the kingdom of heaven is through Jesus Christ? - How long have you believed in hell as a place of eternal conscious torment? - Would you change your mind on hell if you saw evidence to say that the doctrines have been slowly, over 1,700 years, twisted away from scripture? Put another way, could you change your mind given better evidence in whatever form it may be or would cognitive dissonance be potentially too overwhelming? - Do you believe it is true to say that Satan is a real entity that has existed on earth since the beginning (or near the beginning) of time? - If so, do you think this entity has infiltrated Christianity with deceptions? - If so, can you name one? Thanks for your time, I love these polite conversations.

A great summary of a complex concept by a great thinker. Both You and CS Lewis are blesses to be a blessing. Thank you

Thanks. Really appreciated this summing up and the emphasis that two truths can exist together. Excellent summery, most helpful.

@natmanprime4295

Жыл бұрын

yes, fate and free will is another one

I attended Catholic schools as a child and we were taught that God sends sinners to Hell. Fair enough. On its face it made sense. But the older I got, the more the idea of a loving God creating beings simply to cast them into the abyss gnawed at me. The idea that we choose Hell was actually first explained to me by a Protestant minister. As he put it, Hell is the total absence of God and some people, even unto death, reject God and would rather spend an eternity away from His light than submit to Him. It still struck me as odd until I started to think about how people behave here in this life. So many people choose a life devoid of joy, happiness, compassion, and love. Why would that part of their nature change after they move onto the next? I don't know much but I know this much. God exists. Heaven and Hell are real. And God decides in the end who he allows into His kingdom. From that perspective I suppose He does cast sinners into Hell. But He welcomes everyone who accepts His love and does His will. He doesn't want slaves, that is why we have free will, even unto death. Those wishing to spend eternity apart from God are allowed to do so. As C.S. Lewis put it, "In the end there are two kinds of people. Those who say to God, your will be done and those to whom God says, your will be done." Makes sense to me.

@TwiztidMenace

Жыл бұрын

This resonates with me deeply. I'm not completely faithless, but not entirely faithful in anything either. The subject of God has always been something I've felt the need to 'understand'. In my 35 years I've lightly researched so many different cultures and religions who all have slight variations of who or what God is to them and the only solid thing I've learned is that not everyone agrees on the definition. That makes me believe it can't be defined. As if God is what people want god to be. Maybe that's the real definition in some abstract way I don't really know. You chose what to worship and what you worship defines your reality. Many people worship misery without even realizing that's what they're doing. I'm just an average person, not really religious, not really scientific but I at least try to be logical. You mention a minister who said "Hell is the total absence of god and some people, even unto death, reject God and would rather spend an eternity away from His light than submit to Him." That strikes a nerve in me somewhere. Could be a self-righteous, arrogant nerve. If I can't understand God how can I have faith in it? If faith is reliant on trust without understanding, I don't know if I should. I've known trust to be broken countless times throughout history. Man defines God in countless ways, which man's definition do I trust? End of the day I just learn a little bit from everywhere and make up my own personal definition. Maybe that's what everybody does. I sure would love to know something a bit more solid. At the moment my current philosophy is it's all positives and negatives in a constant fluctuation. Prepare for the negative, but strive for the positive. Thank you for your thoughtful comment.

@itinerantpatriot1196

Жыл бұрын

@@TwiztidMenace I don't usually respond to comments but yours moved me because I was where you are at now not so long ago. My advice would be start with an open heart and trust in God and His mercy. Build a relationship with Him and ignore the noise of this world. Start with a simple conversation. Humble yourself and ask His forgiveness. Seek out His will for your life. I know how difficult it can be to trust. Trust in people can be a hard proposition. Trust in God can be difficult, but it's not hard. But it starts with an open heart even more than an open mind. Remember, God has known you from the moment of conception and He will never abandon you. When no one else will listen, He always will. When others abandon us He always stays. When the world fails us, He always stays true. I say this as someone who swam in the Devils lake for a long time. I was stubborn and wanted my will to prevail. I thought I was beyond redemption but God always kept the light on for me and I discovered there is nothing I have done He wasn't willing to forgive. Keep it simple and take it one step a time. There is no relationship like the one God wants to have with you. I wish you luck on your journey my friend and may God's Blessings be on you. 🙏

@TwiztidMenace

Жыл бұрын

@@itinerantpatriot1196 I appreciate that. Thank You. I'll definitely give it more consideration. Never too late to learn new things.

@adrianvarela8890

Жыл бұрын

thanks for posting! GBY

@adrianvarela8890

Жыл бұрын

@@TwiztidMenace Faith is not trusting without understanding. Faith is not philosophy. It is not a hunch. When you read the Bible, you see living examples of people who express their faith. We should not fall for an abstract concept. If you really want to know the true and real faith, you can read W. Nee's "The NormalChristian Faith". GBY

God described his wrath against Edom Egypt, Assyria, and Babylon in the grandest of terms, and yet when you look at how God judged those nations he simply deposed them as they were conquered by neighboring empires. The language of wrath in the Bible is prophetic and it is literary. God’s casting, throwing, and abandoning a person to wrath will be the same. It’s a graphic way of describing God’s just judgment and in no way should be taken in a wooden literalistic fashion.

@carbon273

4 жыл бұрын

Jeff Sk can you explain the parable of the rich man and Lazarus?

@jeffscottkennedy

4 жыл бұрын

@@carbon273 Yeah, it's a parable. As in the Kingdom being like a mustard seed, but it's not really. As in Hell being like the "outer darkness" of exile from a lighted city, but it's not literally. Like Hell being a valley of worms that feed on corpses (like the ones Nebuchadnezzar, Antiochus, and Titus and Vespasian left burning in Hinnom), but it's not really that (literally). The Bible uses metaphors, word pictures, and figures of speech that if taken literally would actually communicate competing ideas. The imagery isn't the point. The literal referents are ideas like exile, estrangement, incarceration, and the agonizing pain of regret.

@nathangraham94

4 жыл бұрын

I was with this speaker until the final ten seconds. He followed Lewis beautifully and then radically disagreed with him at the very end. People joke about conservatives doing this with Lewis. What a stereotypical way to land!

@fitness6681

3 жыл бұрын

@@nathangraham94 I’m not sure what you mean - could you explain ?

@danielmann5427

3 жыл бұрын

No you are leaving out final judgment and not just the intermediate judgment that they faced.

C.S. Lewis embraced the idea of Universalism later in his life. His understanding was that the death of Jesus and salvation wasn't limited to believing Christians, but for the possibility of the whole world. We can see hints of this in The Chronicles of Narnia.

@adrianvarela8890

Жыл бұрын

nobody is exempt from deviating from the truth, especially intellectuals.

@ 11or so seconds in, "Even as a protestant he (Lewis) seemed to believe in something "like" purgatory . . ." Seemed? There was no doubt about it.

@writingcooper7900

2 жыл бұрын

“I believe in Purgatory.” -C.S. Lewis, Letters to Malcom

Hell is separation from God thru our own free will.

@kenthefele113

Жыл бұрын

Amen. And those who are in Hell remain there because they reject God everlastingly out of their free choice. They can’t stand the light of Heaven so they live in darkness.

@Stanzi18

Жыл бұрын

No. Hell is the presence of God's wrath eternally satisfied in the punishment of sin. God is the one who the damned wish would leave and never return. Hell does not belong to the devil, it belongs to Almighty God.

What about C.S. Lewis's "The Space Trilogy," where he said that the disobedient are unmade?

Brilliant and very informative. Thank you!!😊

C.S. Lewis version of hell, with the grey houses etc, sounds like Livingston, Scotland.

@avellinabalestri

Жыл бұрын

Ahhh I was thinking of you listening to this!!!

Lewis was so spot on. Read the Great Divorce.

@elfury7678

2 жыл бұрын

My all time favourite work of his!

I’m sure Lewis read Swedenborg. This was the biggest turning point for me in my Christian walk.

@TheHumbuckerboy

Жыл бұрын

His main influence was George MacDonald

@MikedeVeltaMusic

Жыл бұрын

@@TheHumbuckerboy George MacDonald (1824-1905). Scottish novelist, poet and ‘myth-maker’, he is best remembered for his children’s stories At the Back of the North Wind and The Princess and the Goblin and for his adult fantasies, Phantastes and Lilith. He was inspired particularly by the German Romantics (above all Novalis, some of whose poems he translated), but also by Swedenborg and Blake. He was a friend of Henry Sutton and of Garth Wilkinson.

@MikedeVeltaMusic

Жыл бұрын

@@TheHumbuckerboy Thanks for that mate.

Lewis was particularlly well read in hagiographic and mystic literature. Most he came up was already tough and written, yet in a less palatable way for the taste and powers of the modern average reader - if there is such a thing. In an age in wich the standard high prizes originallity, it sounds like a sin to state that. But tis not so. Just read Swedenborg's Arcanna Coelestia, Julian of Norwich Lady's Revelation of divine Love, Maria de Agreda de Jesus' Mistica Ciudad de Dios as a sample.

The closed captions absolutely dont match what this guy said.

C.S. Lewis may have had some views related to purgatory, but his ideas of purgatory are a lot different than what I've seen some Catholics describe it, or the way people typically picture it as. Its like to the point were I'm like, would you really describe this as "purgatory" per say? As a matter of fact, did he ever call that description "purgatory" I don't know.

Lewis' hell amongst the Protestants is the most in line with ancient, Patristic, Orthodox understanding of it. From the potentiality of leaving it prior to the Last Judgement, to the current state of both heaven and hell being only a foretaste of the status after the Final Judgement, to the duel language of speaking of hell as a place God sends sinners and where sinners send themselves, all of this can be found in the writings of ancient Christians, in the lives of the saints, and in the teachings of the Orthodox faith today.

What Lewis believed is that Heaven is where God’s will is done, and Hell is where separating oneself from God and having their own will done. May God grant you the desires of your heart, is that a blessing or a curse, kind of depends on what those desires are, doesn’t it?

I never understood the very basic question about why the absolutely loving God create and mantain today the hell "facilities". Accepting the self-inflicted part of the punishment, we accept together the idea of a hell like a place - creation of God- full of crazy sadistic demons like Bosch paintings - creation of God - torturing sinners for eternity...The question is: The absolutely loving God is capable to inflict an eternal pain and horror to the sinners, who live, in the most extreme cases, 100 or 120 years in Earth? Who deserve this terrible destiny? Deserve the same doom a sexual pervert (only a pervert, not a rapist or a pedophile) that a genocidal warlord? Shouldn't God's love transcend that cruel fate for millions of souls? A time-limited sentence in a sort of Purgatory seems more...fair, for my.

@skb282

3 жыл бұрын

This is what the early Christians believed. It's called the Apokatastisis.

@moneyoh3

3 жыл бұрын

Early Christians were kinda Universalists

@sagittariusa581

2 жыл бұрын

Who says unbelievers will stop sinning in hell? No one says that unbelievers will stop sinning in hell because you will continue to sin in hell if you don't believe in him. The story "Lazarus and The Rich Man" perfectly answers your question, you should definitely read it. Lazarus was a poor beggar who, when still alive on Earth, would ask the Rich Man for left over food but the Rich Man doesn't give any. When the Rich Man was in hell, he saw Lazarus in the paradise. He commanded Lazarus to dip his finger on the river in the Paradise then touch his wet finger into the thirsty mouth of his. Now, notice anything strange in this story? If you still didn't notice, the Rich Man didn't even apologize for what he did to Lazarus on Earth but yet he commands Lazarus to do him a favor. That shows that hell is locked from the inside because unbelievers in hell don't want to apologize for their actions on Earth because they don't want to out of pride. Unbelievers on hell doesn't want to be in hell but they don't want to be in heaven either, because they want to be God. They don't want to confess and repent of their sins to God because they want to be their own God. Also, not all sinners go to hell because we're all sinners. Only unbelievers of Jesus Christ goes to hell. I hope you understand my explanation because I'm not good at this stuff, you know, explaining things.

@dman9834

2 жыл бұрын

The Lord Jesus Christ, our all loving Creator, is also a just Creator. Sin must be paid for. Jesus died on the cross and paid for the sins of everybody who would believe in him. Those who do not put their trust in him and make Him Lord will have to pay for their sins for all of eternity. Don’t make God out to be the bad guy. Sin must be paid for. Jesus offered everybody a way out. Jesus can’t excuse sin.

@moneyoh3

2 жыл бұрын

@@dman9834 what exactly is just about being born into a different culture, let’s say one where Hinduism is true, and you spend all your life believing it’s true just to die and be sent to hell?

Self - plunging 💯

I read The Great Divorce and some others. Lewis copies the format of Paul Bunyan's story of The Pilgrim's Progress. Lewis characteristic hatred of technology is detectable here. In Lewis Book people choosing selfishness and hell became unreal as they refuse to believe in God's reality. He sees technology as part of an evil reality. Always in his writing technology is evil or satanic, and he opposes cold rationality seeing that also as something which results in evil. That is understandable based on his experiences in WWI, but its not excusable for him to make it the basis for theology.

@lenny_1369

3 жыл бұрын

doesn't all the technological advancements that humans had invented have something in common? to progress humanity? some with the belief that in the future the humans living in that generation will ever be so smarter than that of the past and of today, that each step forward will be the way which makes humans almost holy? or in other words humans in the future will play the role of gods? I'm a Christian myself but I do not know what you believe in and I will not assume, please read this comment from me as an understanding from what I've learned and not as a rude critique. if I missed your point then I apologize in a non grouchy way, but I am still a curious person that needs to learn a lot of course, I'm just trying to be modest.

@traykunable

3 жыл бұрын

Please explain this "characteristic hatred of technology" that C.S Lewis allegedly has?

@tammesikkema5322

Жыл бұрын

I did not find his detestation of technology in the Great Divorce. Perhaps it's somewhere else, but I think you are conflating his views with Tolkien's

Which Hell? Hades, Tartarus, or Gehenna? It makes a difference. Gehenna is a fire of eternal destruction. I take this to mean destruction as seen from eternity.

@adrianvarela8890

Жыл бұрын

very well put. There is a clear distinction.

Wow

The word hell is a mistranslation. When someone tells you to go to hell, they are telling you to go to the grave (sheol/hades). It's not even mentioned once in the Old Testament, not once to Adam and Eve (who got the whole sin ball rolling), and not once to Moses. There are plenty of verse on destruction and death and the grave (sheol/hades). Take a glance at the different translations and it's very easy to see the instances where hell is rendered as grave and sometimes death. The KJV is a good example as it renders hell in these ways more than most translations. 10 minutes and a concordance is all one needs.

@adrianvarela8890

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for posting!

It's difficult to believe that God has created a place as hell, nevertheless the Bible expresses it in such a way that we know it's real. I wish nobody experience hell

Question: If hell is everlasting movement away from God and Heaven being the opposite, the everlasting movement towards God, is this implied in the afterlife, or a metaphor for the phenomenon on earth? Is there progress to be made in the afterlife? The idea of progression in the afterlife towards God seems, to me, to defeat the purpose of our time on earth. I also struggle though because I don't believe I'll ever find myself deserving of Heaven in this life. I feel it would be contaminated by my presence and therefore, I cannot go. Yet, I also feel I don't deserve eternal torment. If eternal torment is my punishment for not having a pure soul, why exist at all?

@n00bly_43

2 жыл бұрын

The core thesis of Christianity is that no one deserves Heaven and that is the point of Christ's sacrifice. Heaven wouldn't be contaminated by you because Christ makes you clean. Think of the lepers in the 1st Century. They were excluded from society by virtue of their uncleanness. However, Christ could and did make them clean. So the condition of being in Heaven is Oneness with God. It's like the Biblical idea of marriage (man and woman become One). That's also an idea reflected in the Trinity (The Three who are One). So it is with Christ. As the Son of God and the Fulfilment of the Law, He is everything we were meant to be: The Perfect Image of God. Sin means to miss the mark. Christ is the mark. So, our moral failings are the ways in which we morally fail to live up to Christ's example; the ways in which we betray Christ and kill him. However, He lives anyway. He is risen. So, even though we have betrayed the Perfect Image of God within you in your sin, He still lives and by accepting his Lordship over our lives, we can begin moving back into Union with Him. Hence, WWJD. On another point, since God is infinitely wise and He Himself has determined that He would rather die painfully on the cross than have Heaven without us, I'd say that you need not be so discouraged about your own worth. Apparently, He considers suffering torture and death a fair price for even the possibility of your Company. It's not about deserve. It's just love.

@SigmaPB777

2 жыл бұрын

@@n00bly_43 I’m aware of that first statement, this is a belief I share with Christianity. And thank you for the rest of it too. I am in need of this sort of explanation. If he can cleanse my soul of impurities, does this not impose on free will? For example, I struggle with lust, sloth, and anger. If those things are cleansed from me, and those desires taken away, isn’t it not free will anymore? And if all is forgiven, to what extent does my sin really matter? This is one of the things I have a hard time with Christianity; if all things are forgiven, what motivation is there to abide by God’s moral law? Isn’t there a line somewhere? There seems to be 2 countervailing narratives that very few go to heaven because they are not saved or are unworthy, but the other side says God forgives all and died for the sins we commit.

@n00bly_43

2 жыл бұрын

@@SigmaPB777 As I said, it is all a matter of being united with Christ. Not everyone's sins will be forgiven and not everyone will be cleaned. Only those who are united with Christ. So, in the end, it has to do with the marital love. Think of the moral law as God's love language. In any relationship, you strive to show love to the other person and whether or not you always succeed is essentially irrelevant as long as they see that you are striving. So, those who strive to show love to God by obeying His moral law, show their commitment to the marriage; even if they don't always get it right. However, if someone doesn't bother. If someone thinks only of themselves and actively neglects the things that please God, then they show their apathy towards the marriage. There is a line somewhere. Christ referred to the line as, "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." The Holy Spirit, being the person of God living in us and writing His Word in our Hearts. In a sense, the line that cannot be crossed is not "How much of the Moral Law do you follow?" It's "How important is it to you that you please God?" In the Book of Genesis, Jacob spends a night wrestling with God and God says that he doesn't need to wrestle anymore. Jacob, nevertheless, holds on. As a result God relents, declares Jacob the victor and calls him Israel (Wrestles with God). Later on Jacob meets his brother, Esau (whom he had betrayed). Jacob offers Esau all manner of gifts as apology. Esau mentions that he doesn't need them as he has already forgiven Jacob. However, Jacob insists saying "Your face is like the face of God to me." They wrestle for a while and eventually Esau relents and lets Jacob win; accepting the gifts. Those gifts are the moral law, in a sense.

@n00bly_43

2 жыл бұрын

Essentially, those who genuinely strive to change for the better are already forgiven regardless of how successful they are. On the other hand, those who do not strive, who don't care, are already rejected, regardless of their lip service. As for the free will thing, it is and always will be a choice about whether or not you want to be with God. Good or bad, the desires are a part of being human. Even Jesus, at Gethsemane, showed violent reluctance in going through with the cross. He was terrified. Still, he chose to do it because He also desired to do His father's will. The desires remain. However, it is on us to choose whether we follow our evil desires or our good desires. It's actually the choice that makes every good deed so righteous. The beauty of the Christ story isn't that he was perfect without temptation. He was tempted almost as soon as He was baptized. Likely before and likely after too. The beauty is in the fact that He didn't break. That He chose to keep holding on. Out of love for His Father and love for us. He loved all of us so much He wanted to unite us all and that love was enough for Him to overcome all the bitterness, arrogance, deception, lust, sloth and injustice in the world.

@SigmaPB777

2 жыл бұрын

@@n00bly_43 Wow. Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. Uneducated Christians tend to use lots of absolute, general statements that lead me to be more confused about the faith. I deeply appreciate these explanations. I don't mean to abuse your generosity of the time you're spending explain this, but what am I to make of the denominations? Is there a certain one that focuses more on theology and apologetics more than others? I know I'll have to attend several churches to find one that fits me, but I feel that too many I've gone to just try to give a feel-good message and lessons about life we can learn from the Bible. It's like many try to appeal to too many people rather then telling me the things I need to hear, but perhaps don't want to. I'm not sure how to put it, but it's like they've succumbed to modernity and can't bear to offend people with certain truths about the faith. I like the traditional culture of the Catholics, but the centralized power structure feels like a problem to me, among other things that I've heard about Catholics. I apologize for the basic questions but my family hasn't done the best job in arming me (or themselves) with this knowledge. I want, more than anything, to find the truth and the way and grow my faith with the proper roots.

How sad, that people believed such horrors as being literal truth. From the book, "The Way Our People Lived," ... An intimate American history, by William E. Woodward, published 1944, comes the following ... The Puritan temperament was deeply tinctured with an inclination towards needless self-torture. Their ministers seldom preached of the joys of heaven; the emphasis in the sermon was laid on the tortures and terrors of hell. Jonathan Edwards-the most famous of colonial divines, declared that God takes delight in the suffering of poor lost sinners. Those elected for goodness, having fought in this world against evil, would in the next life be lifted up to an infinite happiness; and, looking down out of heaven, they would realize their own ecstasy by contrasting it with the infinite misery of the sinners in the flames of hell.

What that blue my mind

*"Hell is something where sinners are thrown there...they're thrown there into the lake of fire."* @1:22 I do not accept the oft-repeated notion that the Lake of Fire is hell. (Rev. 2: 11; 20: 6; 20: 14; 21: 8)

It seems the internal portion of Lewis's concept of hell is him inferring these ideas based on the idea of free will. If someone can help me with scripture that supports this, please assist!

The lie of 'hell' is perhaps the greatest blasphemy ever told. It is so blatantly false, so anti-god, so unfair and so completely unscriptural that it really cannot be exposed enough. Because it is so repugnant to every notion of justice and fairness, apologists in the last few years have come up with this nonsensical idea that " God doesn't throw people into hell, they choose it for themselves". A lie to cover for a lie. Two simple points expose this slander against God: 1: Since the Bible makes it abundantly clear that man is mortal and there is nothing about him that is immortal, ( Ezekiel 18:4, Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 9:5 ) it follows that in order for someone to be burned for all eternity, God would have to resurrect the individual and grant them immortality. This for the express purpose of throwing them into hell for all eternity, because " they chose it". 2. No one, but no one, would have the power to create such a place but God. Satan has no such power. He is not a creator. Since both of these requirements would have to be true in order for such a fate to exist, then God is to blame for torturing people for all eternity without hope. No amount of making excuses by saying "they chose it for themselves", takes the blame away. It would absolutely be God's doing and his fault. This is why this lie is so blasphemous and is a direct attack on the character of God. The Bible says that " God is love". 1 John 4:16. Only a monster could do such an awful thing to his children. No parent would ever even consider such a horrific fate for their children, yet people accuse God of it because of their love for traditions. In fact, God himself declared openly that such a thing ( burning children in fire ) " never even came into my mind or heart" Jeremiah 19:5 Jesus said plainly: " For God so loved the world that he sent his only-begotten Son, so that whosoever believes in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life". Life is the reward for obedience and faith; death is the punishment for sin. Life vs. death. Romans 6:23 " The wages sin pays is death". Who would want us to believe such a slander against our loving heavenly Father ? Who would want to portray God in such a monstrous light? None other than Satan himself, the father of the lie. This is why Revelation declares that he is "misleading the entire inhabited earth". (12:9). A burning hell is a lie of the devil. No philosophy of men makes it true.

@rktbnelson

Жыл бұрын

1 Timothy 4:10

@dennisjump8655

Жыл бұрын

@@rktbnelson " For I have faith towards God, as do these men also, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous". Acts 24:15 " Lord, I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day". John 11:24 Both Martha and Paul are referring to the same event. When viewed with this in mind, Paul's words at 1 Timothy 4:10 make perfect sense.

@tbcreative562

Жыл бұрын

My brother, please read the gospels in full without pulling verses out of context. Jesus talked about Hell in great detail.

@dennisjump8655

Жыл бұрын

@@tbcreative562 Really? Which one?

@tbcreative562

Жыл бұрын

@@dennisjump8655 Matthew 5:29-31

Lewis or Christ ?? Who’s side are you taking ? The one that was created or the One that created Hell ? Christ was not lying when He mentioned hell.

A “loss of all rationality and joy”- that describes belief in hell.

Hell: Almost like San Francisco, but without sunlight, alot more jerks and ever expanding. Eh sound about right.

@nancythompson3282

2 жыл бұрын

Josh Powell - The images of hell as typically described and imagined by people are a foolish misleading optimistic fantasy. The Lake of Fire is a place of eternal destruction, unspeakable torment made by God for the evil one Satan and his angels who are responsible for all the sin and evil. There is smoke from burning Sulphur, there is weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth and the worms that consume flesh never die. The condemned that die in their sins are apart from God alone to be tormented forever and ever.

@StaticRealist2050

2 жыл бұрын

@@nancythompson3282 Yeah well that version of hell sounds real sadistic for a loving God to make for Satan and his fallen angels. I mean he could easily wipe the souls from existence that would be a lot more merciful. The hell you describe that I have most commonly heard time and time again sounds absolutely horrifying. If God does allow that type of torment even the most evil of souls then God just wants us to workshop out of intimidation and his over inflated ego. I mean why would I want to be in heaven either it would be like being in church for all eternity and if my family isn't there then I don't want to be there either. It's kinda sad that the only motivation I have for believing in God is because I want to be with my family in heaven if they are there and because of fearing him. There is nothing genuine about God's so called love it's more like I'm being held at gunpoint if I step out of line.

@nancythompson3282

2 жыл бұрын

@@StaticRealist2050 Hello Josh. The fatal flaw in your objections of Gods will and the making of the unspeakable Lake of Fire for Satan and his angels is that your subjective characterizations of God are from foolish, heretical, fabrications from pathetic human fantasies designed to deceive. Do you truly want to know how loving God is? This is from the book of John in the bible (I put clarifications for you in parenthesis): “For God so loved the world that He gave (sacrificed) His only begotten Son (Jesus, the perfect God man born of a virgin), that whoever believes in Him should not perish (be cast in the Lake of Fire a place God made for Satan and his angels, to be tormented alone forever and ever) but have everlasting life (in heaven with God and Jesus). Have you heard of the last supper? This is just prior to when Jesus went to the Garden of Gethsemane, praying in agony with blood coming from his pores, knowing he must die for the forgiveness of the sins of the world. In obedience to God the father, he was waiting for Judas to bring those that were going to arrest him, take him for public disgrace, brutally torture him and to die alone on the cross. He died, was buried and on the third day he was resurrected spent brief time here on earth with glorified body and ascended to heaven at the right hand of the father. This is how much Jesus loves you; it is far beyond human understanding. Salvation from the curse of sin and condemnation of the eternal spirit, God placed in every man is a free gift of grace from God to be accepted or rejected. I have scriptural references for everything I have given you here. Please read Matthew chapters 26 and 27 for full account of the final events of Jesus life here on earth; it will be so illuminating and valuable to you.

He believed he’ll was this world .

This seems contradictory to the narrow road Jesus spoke of.

@_Scarlet1

4 жыл бұрын

You mind explaining what it is jesus spoke of

@jydoctober

4 жыл бұрын

@@_Scarlet1 Matthew 7:13-14

@_Scarlet1

4 жыл бұрын

@@jydoctober thanks :)

@ignwins3936

4 жыл бұрын

How is it contracting?

@allanlindsay8369

4 жыл бұрын

Hello and greetings, it's narrow relative to very broad expanse of the teeming highway of sin. Peace.

We are made in God's image, if you reject Him there will be no place found for you except the place made for the other rebels. It's not that God doesn't love anyone, you choose Hell by rejecting His reality of Jesus Christ

CS was an Anglican technically not a Protestant

@gitfiddler716

2 жыл бұрын

Anglican is considered protestant.

I think the world we live in here and now is Purgatory. Just my opinion!

In hell youre on fire and in heaven youre not

Why do they talk of “ other”? Some other place? Hell exists on earth and Lewis is right in how he describes it. A good life , or indeed Death, in its own way , is a liberation from that hell. It is Not yet another hell you go to after this hell. The likes of CS Lewis are amoungst the most privileged people in history, protected by money, position, power, etc. They could afford to over write their notions in the paid for tenure of Oxford. He was right the first time. Stop talking about “ another place” this place is where it all happens.

This is what is leading the, " Moscow Mood" at St.Andrews of tge New Academy? I would expect a clearer explanation of tge dictrinal errors of Lewis's Anglicanisn. He sounds likes he is describing Owen Barfield not Lewis.

Not a single scripture was used to support any of this conjecture. Mens imagination can get the better of them and if we are discussing spiritual matters without a firm basis in what the bible says, we are merely speculating. Endless torment in hell would necessitate that man was intrinsically immortal and the scriptures simply don't teach that. Immortality is bestowed upon the faithful. The unfaithful are judged, punished according to their sins and simply annihilated. Everlasting destruction is what they face, not everlasting punishment. That's the truth.

I got a book on hell

@jerardosc9534

4 жыл бұрын

David Johnston the bible?

Hell is a pagan word added to the Bible. Hell is NOT in the original Bible but added later by Augustine and others along with Dante's Inferno to control the masses and cause fear of an all loving God.

@damianwhite504

Жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@completoencristo

Жыл бұрын

I guess Christ was lying if what you claim is true ? Blasphemy.

@adrianvarela8890

Жыл бұрын

lake of fire is not only a better expression but the one Revelation depicts..

@dimitartodorov4826

Жыл бұрын

Sheol and the lake of fire are 100% biblical and they are not "added to the Bible". Yes, hell doesn't come from hebrew or greek but it doesn't mean it's not true. The only problem is when hades/sheol are confused with the lake of fire.

@adrianvarela8890

Жыл бұрын

@@dimitartodorov4826 too much confusion...better stick to the Biblical terms.

Hell is fire. There is no purgatory. It’s binary. Says the Bible

We're experiencing hell on earth right now

Don't believe he was biblical about that

And I thought hell was living in liberal Washington state.

I don't care what anyone believes about hell. Jesus made it clear. It is a real place where people who denied Christ as savior will go. You choose to go there by rejecting God's eternal gift in His son Jesus sacrifice.

GOD says in his World that Hell is an Actual Place, just like Heaven is where The Rich Ruler Lazarus was sent in that story.. The BIBLE does NOT Preach about a place like Purgatory, Period!!

@jeremiahmeade710

2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps earth is purgatory?

@calebclawrence

2 жыл бұрын

That is a parable you’re referring to so getting actual doctrine out of it might be hard.

No, Sinners burn physically there

@ThiagoCT9

4 жыл бұрын

Arguments?

@mrvaas876

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThiagoCT9 And spiritually That much is in the Bible With the greatest pain being separated from God

@mrvaas876

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThiagoCT9 The Gray City Hell is just a politically correct answer to Hell Not only that, we really need to consider what even is eternity and if its even like the way we may imagine being burned will be like

@ThiagoCT9

4 жыл бұрын

Mr Vaas What do you think that happens when someone dies without ever knowing about Christ? Does this person end up in hell burning forever? Or is there another criterion?

@mrvaas876

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThiagoCT9 Quick question: are you a Catholic or Protestant or Orthodox

If hell is infinite little, it doesn't exist ...

@Threezus17

2 жыл бұрын

Hell does exist if you don't believe Jesus

@jeremiahmeade710

2 жыл бұрын

@@Threezus17 Does one end up in hell merely because one never heard the name "Jesus?" Perhaps they end up in hell because they contradicted their own belief about what is right and wrong without reason?

He was a orthodox not Protestant what the heck..

@nahueltijera8264

3 жыл бұрын

he was a mix between anglican and catholic, he even said that jesus was a liar in one of his books. I don't think C.S. Lewis was a true christian

@kylejacobson9587

2 жыл бұрын

Where did he say Jesus was a liar, outside of allegorically?

@kylejacobson9587

2 жыл бұрын

He was Anglican, which is very close to Eastern Orthodox, but is classified as Protestant for historical reasons

@nahueltijera8264

2 жыл бұрын

@@kylejacobson9587 read His commentary of Matthew 24

@kylejacobson9587

2 жыл бұрын

@@nahueltijera8264 I found an isolated quote, which in context was what he was narrating early Christians to be saying to themselves when Christ did not appear within 40 years, as they expected.

So god is absolute corruption because of god's absolute power.......sounds familiar and alarmingly human.

Lewis believed what he did not know. That is worthless knowledge.

Lewis knows all about hell now. What a wicked liar he was.