The thing for me is, the concept had been done long before Fingers Crossed did. I think it is very respectful Wethepeople put their bike on hold for a few years. Possibly costing them a huge amount of revenue during Covid.

@kevinherring4087

Жыл бұрын

Yup, early 90s there was a push for full suspension bmx/race bikes. Mongoose Aftershock comes to my mind 1st. I believe the pivot point was in front of the bb which I think was silly. I think GT had one too.

@jonathandoe69

Жыл бұрын

Even if it was never done before, it's not that revolutionary. It's just elements from one type of bike put on another type of bike. Not at all an invention. Fair game.

@iver6180

Жыл бұрын

There doing it now. They just posted a video on tiktok of a guy riding one

@TheBrick2

Ай бұрын

A full sus bmx is not new but using it on mtb trails is as these trails didn't exist in the 90s and 80s

if this was any other industry rubin would have been told to piss off from the start , and nobody would have thought about it, wtp gave them 2 years, they were being extremely generous in doing that.

@davidtinnerello1524

Ай бұрын

It was who'lly generous of them to even pull back at all. I can't buy fingers crossed if hats how they act.

it won't be long before other companies "copy" this and make their own rendition of this frame design (tailored for their needs) wtp didn't have to wait and yet finger's crossed made us wait !? great video discussion!

1975 Kawasaki BX-100 is one example of a full suspension bmx. There were a lot more.

WTP deserves props, most industries, its pretty cut throat, that's how competitive it is. But to wait 2 years is the reason why I love BMX. WTP releasing their bike now is more then fair.

I'm totally agree with you. It's good to have full suspension BMX on the market now.

I love this idea and I think this is the first time I've ever heard of a company holding back for 2 years.... It's a little too generous to wait so long when people need to make money off a product and if WTP don't do it then someone else will. I had a 20 inch suspension bike and it was trash because the rear shock made up part of the rear swingarm, this one is tuck under the top tube just like some MTBs use... I definitely want one and I'm most likely making it electric. 😱😍🖤

is there any video with the WTP riding? I have seen some FingersCrossed videos, but I have only see a few pics of the WTP, I can preorder the bike, but I can´t see it riding...

From the thumbnail, the geometry seems slightly steeper and taller on the WTP (kind of street inspired) and looks to be longer and lower, more race style on the 🤞. I dig it

Currently rocking a wtp crysis and I have my eye on a wtp envy - but this does look like a fun bike I'd be eager to get some pegs straight on it too lol... I'd like to see the swamp master perform at a swamp fest. I'm a new sub, enjoyed your content and look forward to future uploads.

Good coverage, Brant. I think it was kind of WTP to pull back for 2 years but how long should they wait, right?

@jsbmx2039

Жыл бұрын

Ya know other business would do that. They would just put it out

WTP was ready to do this anyways. They have been trending towards this release. The Chaos Machine with its disc mount; theirs or Eclats disc hub. They certainly have a trails focus this year so it makes the most logical sense to just move forward with it.

@dillonbrooks961

Жыл бұрын

Very well put

WTP waited long enough imo. Always good to get new stuff out there and keep it competitive. WTP also came out with their Chaos Machine disc brake BMX frame not too long ago. I think it's all good if it helps out the sport and gets more people interested in riding.

Just needs a touch of color and upgrades. Such as cinema projector stem in sandblast gold with a headset from cinema as well. Then a volume 9.5 mad dog bars with some Billy grips from Merritt.

I haven't watched the video or read any comments, just gunna say my piece then leave well alone. Fingers Crossed the whole idea behind it isn't anything new, it was done decades ago! Just poorly haha. Yes, those guys were the first with modern geo, components etc. When the drama first happened a couple years back? Yes, Fingers Crossed had all their prototypes bouncing around & WTP has the buying power to get these things out pretty damn fast... The Fingers Crossed Frames (Not Bikes) have barely changed in that couple of years! People want these bikes, I'd rather a Company that actually gives a shit about BMX make a complete than a supermarket chain or budget bike company! We also have to think, one of the reasons we don't see WAY more of these bikes is cost. Building one from scratch is VERY expensive! Even seasoned BMXers that like the idea have barely touched the concept! WTP makes a complete more people will be able to enjoy the idea AND! People can now buy a complete with parts designed for purpose & then save up, invest in a Fingers Crossed Frame & pay FAR less money taking that route. WTP were respectful, they waited for Fingers Crossed to get their products made & released. They still haven't actually done that years later, WTP give people what they want.

@ch-lg2qh

2 ай бұрын

Plus fingers were too slow in feeding the demand to market. This is timely.

Reminds me a little of the Mongoose Aftershock from the late 90's early 2000's.

Question! Where did you get your shirt? Angel and devil with BMX bike on your shoulders! Sweet as hell love the shirt.

Mines a custom built hybrid-Best fun ever, unlocks all the bike parks - soo much fun

I actually think the front suspension only version of the Fingers Crossed frame has way more potential. That extra suspension just in the front greatly increases speed over rougher terrain. Ive been running a 24 inch frame for 10 years and i can run 100mm suspension forks or 395mm rigid forks and the bike feels perfect in either setup. Ive been really happy with the 24 inch wheels. The bike feels just like a typical bmx to me.

I did not know about the Swampmaster or FS BMX bikes in general before this video. Thought it might be worth mentioning that Nukeproof (Mtn Bike) recently came out with with their Cub Scout, a 20" version of their Scout. GMBN posted a video of Blake Sampson using it at a jump track. I realize they are not the same thing. But, functionally, they are very close and could be used for the same purpose. So, competition into the general concept is already ongoing, though less obvious through the mountain bike side of things.

@Brant_Moore

Жыл бұрын

Very great point and I had no idea about that bike!

We still don't even know if full-suspension BMX bikes will even become a thing in the long term. I got a Swampmaster in for review and it's pretty fun, but that doesn't mean this concept will be embraced, especially because of how expensive they are. BMXers tend to be pretty cheap about how much money they will spend on a sport they supposedly love. Although, this bike could bring in a whole new category. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

With deep respect to Ruben Alcantara i have to say that great idea is not equal to succesfull business. No one's gonna wait until you organize everything, you have to be fast. But what is interesting that wethepeople seems to pull back on the swampmaster only for US market, because in 2022 it's been sold in Russia at our official distributor already

how heavy is that going to be? Is it a DH only bike? Interesting though.

@MarioXcore1

Жыл бұрын

Wtf DH only? Never ridden a MTB have you?

@Gornflyin

Жыл бұрын

@@MarioXcore1 ermm, yes I own one. WTF wah wah wah. Get over yourself.

It'd probably be better with a 22" front wheel set-up.

@Brant_Moore

Жыл бұрын

Are bikes with 2 different sized wheels normal? Idk anything about bikes outside of bmx

@Captcatfist

Жыл бұрын

Fuck yeah a bmx mullet bike. Speed up front and party whips at the back.

@brettrohlfingvideo

Жыл бұрын

@@Brant_Moore it's a thing right now in mtb, 29 front, 27.5 rear. It's not the norm, but a few companies offer it.

@RockyPondProductions

Жыл бұрын

@@Brant_Moore Like others have said the mullet is popular now with a 29" front and a 27.5" rear. For a little freeride MTB history, back in the day mullets were also popular with some freeride MTB bikes like the Specialized Big Hit. It had a 24" rear with a 26" front. I personally liked the standard 26" matched with the 24". The bike was smaller, and a bit more mobile but still got over things with the 26" front. It went away for years but now it is back but with bigger wheels.

@ibanez2010

Жыл бұрын

​@@Brant_Moore Yes sir! I've seen a few guys running 27" front 26" rear. Better than straight 29er, but still kinda slow and clunky if you are coming from bmx land.

Ruben and Garrett has done nothing but giving a glimpse

Thanks Brant good Episode

Loved the t-shirt.

I would totally buy this yesterday.

I’m down for innovation, just as long as the original standard bmx we have now and past remains available for purchase in case an individual isn’t interested at the moment or Yet.

As a dude that lives in a city full of city streets and also full of canyons an mountainS I've always thought why don't they put suspension on BMX ?? Lots of people that BMX want suspension because of the beating the bike takes but they don't like the feel of a mountain bike just like me ! We need this available asap

As a mechanic I reckon u-brake mounts not discs would be heaps better for this application. Single pivot frames are pretty common in mtb? Just adopting existing tech imo anyways

@markivory7121

Жыл бұрын

Not discounting the work, getting geos right is a beast in itself. Wonder if the slackened headtube angle and longer front end trend might be beneficial for hitting bigger stuff. Like those old races Todd Lyons was in with monster jumps downhill aha, be so good

@DAVES696

Жыл бұрын

U brakes with wet and mud😂 good luck with that.. the tyres they had on for the edit was 2.8 and a 3” on the front so they’re not going to have clearance for any u brake..

I personally think this is amazing and i am going to buy one

About time somebody in the industry decided to start embracing the advancements of technology and not just writing pointless jargon about metal and compounds 😏 it's great to see progression in the actual hardware, I think things like MTB slopestyle are really pushing the capabilities of trick riding and if BMX doesn't start moving with the time's it will only keep getting more and more niche and left behind. Decent brakes, light but strong component's and frames, suspension, and unique designs, will only help grow the sport. No kid wants to spend 2k on a rigid BMX set up that looks no different from a £200 bike from the kids section at Walmart, especially when for that kind of money they can get an MTB that all their friends will envy and can do everything from downhill to park riding. IMO we have to keep up or get left behind and stop the old school cool club gatekeeping.

Good vid brant ., my opinion who is an experienced mechanic and mtb racer that started on a bmx .,i wanted too make this a reality before ever watching fingers crossed and having drawings of the exact same suspension design when i was 13… are this. BMX as a whole is stuck in a set attitude towards both bike parts and change as well as The vibe and look of what is cool . Look at chad kerley .. biggest instagram following in the industry .. wears expensive ass clothes ive never even heard of .. alternatively everyone else sort of embraces the dirt bag lifestyle persay .. which is great ! But maybe not the healthiest too perceive too young people . Anyways , bmx has a “street mindset “ if you will .. and im not talking about riding .. its the difference of community between bmx and mtb in my personal ventures and media attraction and what the pros are putting out for content .. it seems like its cool too be a skid . many times as a kid was i singled out because i couldnt ride well enough or wasnt “from there” it felt on a bmx . A vibe you dont often get when riding mtb … i think it comes full circle. Furthermore parts and bikes : From a engineering and mechanics standpoint bmx is ages behind .. these bikes are operating the most basic suspension system known too man, theyre just releasing disc brakes and eclat just released some aluminum cranks .. its clear too see how far behind it really is by comparison of 2 wheeled machines and parts being released in the different disciplines . You cant say “oh you stole my idea “ When you shrunk a p-slope too 20inch wheels and played with geometry ..Someone gimme a cnc machine and teach me solidworks and ill do better by the end of the month 😂😂😂💀 I think its funny that fingers crossed even got wtp too back down as said below .. any other industry they wouldve been told too kick rocks . I as much as anyone else would rather support the quality small guy over wtp but they clearly are messing something up on the production side … im excited too see where the competition/innovation aspect comes too play . I think theres alot of money too be made with these machines once perfected ., and i think i could easily employ help too effectively “innovate through competition “ as you suggest in your video . , and yea .. the feud between probably made anyone in the bike community thinking about it back down .. which honestly is lame . Im Jealous of the fc guys like sem kok and reuben/garret etc. Who have these built … been waiting .. 🙃 they let me down .. coulda learned too weld faster.

We the People have done nothing wrong. I have wanted a 20" full squishy bike since fingers crossed (if not before). I have been even thought about buying a slopestyle MTB. In Utah their is lots of places to ride that my 20 bmx isn't quite up for, but a full size MTB trail bike is too overkill too. I came up with an idea for a lug nut seatpost years ago, and even made one. I think I may have used it in front of a WTP rider at the skate park one day too. But never did anything beyond that. Years later WTP made one, I don't know if they "stole" my design or if they thought of it themselves. But I didn't patent it, or ever try to put it too market. So why I should I fell mad. Shoot or get off the pot. Either way Garret and Ruben are still legends. But that doesn't make you good at business.

I saw it first from ruben alcantara's video few years ago.

what about Deathpack full suspension bmx. Frame was formerly a Fit 22 BMX that was modified into FS by Mike Hill (BMX builder extraordinaire). So no one needs to wait. its too late.

Isnt this what patents are for?

Full Sus 20" bikes have been a thing for a while just not for adults. I've been waiting for ever for the Fingers Crossed bike to become available to buy not even sure how many years to be honest I've been waiting. I don't think it's disrespectful at all. If Fingers Crossed doesn't sell their's soon, I'll Be getting a We The People for sure

I would have loved to see a prime Nyquist or Mirra jump on one of these.

All I care about how much is it going to cost and when can I order lol

Its like saying Mountain bike Co's that Innovate Should be the only ones who could have had advances in tech & all other Companies should still be on full rigid ten speeds. I want to see these also in 22"& 24" from all brands(unlikely) Bit more meat on the bones to play with. Bring back the old school hilly BMX tracks. Black widow, Matthews, Huffy, Webco, Crossrider, Royce Union & Shields had Mono-shock BMX's, 70's into the 80"s

I’m surprised, Ruben, didn’t sue them for copyright

me and my homie gon have to get some frrrrrr

I just googled it because i know someone tried it before over 20yrs ago. I also so that deathpack is the works of one.

100 💯 % agree 👍

Ill buy it

Bro I really want the wtp swamp master to come out 😩 like please god please

I don’t care about who does what anymore. I want one of these bikes.

@Brant_Moore

Жыл бұрын

I can’t wait to see what you do with one!!!

Yeah don’t get me wrong I love Ruben and garret and the fingers crossed idea but I don’t blame wtp I don’t see the fingers crossed bike coming out any time soon

“Competition breeds innovation” is the realist opinion I’ve heard you say yet.

@Brant_Moore

Жыл бұрын

Money sustains passion. I basically speak in quotes of phrases I've heard in the past.....haha

i cant remember from who or what podcast i heard it from, or maybe a general realization that i have from listening to a lot of podcasts about bmx, and that is that the bmx community is small compared to other extreme sport communities yet we tend to be so gatekeepish and hard"core" that we shun away anything new. be it riding, tricks, innovation, social media and a lot of stuff.

I'm tired of going to Walmart...how about a BMX warehouse?

I want one

@dennisd4452

Жыл бұрын

#Metoo bro.

All the people who really wanted to buy one of these bikes got tired of waiting, so they just bought a MTB.

Does anyone remember the Yamaha bike

Iron horse pre bmx suspended 20inch bikes where very cool in the UK late 70s but if its not on patent then its open season

The Mongoose Aftershock came out in 96. If nobody wanted it then. Then why would someone want it now? To each their own.

@jsbmx2039

Жыл бұрын

To ride mountains on a bmx bike.

This bike is awesome

I want one.

Eclat and wtp have been thinking outside the box more than other companies I feel. How many frames have same geo,how many hubs look the same etc parts.. fly has the magneto hubs cool. I chose the seismic from eclat before fly dropped theirs. I think 2 years is plenty of time to get your stuff together before another company steps in and shows it can be done and shows the drive. I'm stoked and want one! Look at the planetary coaster... free night was backed by bsd and now how many other companies are doing the same hub design.. lol

Simple for me, WTP waited long enough. FC had ample opportunity to do their thing.

I'm surprised they even waited 2 years, that's crazy in the current age for any other product. WTP was actually respectful. Fingers crossed got plenty of time to release their bike.

I definitely don't care about the copy cat thing... I just want one. There are mountain bike trails all around me!. How long should me this person have to wait lol!

Way to go wtp

How much is it

BMX is a business, simple as that. In no other industry would a company give another company 2 years grace to bring out A product. The reality is that WTP has the funds to mass produce A bike like this and sell it at a some what 'reasonable' price. I can't see fingers crossed being able to produce this at any sort of volume.

Yeah but what’s the price point going to be? If I built a hard tail with new premium parts I can easily touch $4000cad and will make a 26” lighter than the average bmx. That’s not even trying that hard as well. I recently just saw a kid running a $2500 wheel set (carbon rims, aluminum spokes $12 each, and I9 hubs). Myself and most friends that bmx will never spend that amount of money on a bmx. The average bmx rider I’ve met that is fully into it gets a new setup every 1-2 years while using some existing parts. If they put a team together that only rode these bikes and hit jumps nearly darkfest size to promote them then I could understand the marketing behind it but in reality the bikes will probably be a $4000 niche. Even the Crankworx style bikes are more niche than bmx but they serve a purpose for a form of competition and comfortability when hitting larger jumps.

I just wish it came compatible with standard 135mm OLD hubs and other components like 30-35mm seatposts. It looks like quite a few design choices cling to specifications that you can't really get anything modern for these days! There is NOT ONE 25.4mm dropper or suspension seatpost. There are like 3 very expensive 110mm disc mount hubs! I've only recently gotten into BMX bikes and I don't care about traditions or culture! But working on a BMX and finding parts that fit is a pain in the Ass. It's ridiculous!

Sunday and Cult need to join this war

I’m going to be 100% real with y’all! If we the people releases this bike with a price tag over $1500, you might as well go buy a dirtjumper because at the same price range, you can get really good stuff. This bike would be too similar to a BMX and it’s not really worth it.

@herlinastevens9474

Жыл бұрын

Big wheel are lame

@brianbmx85

Жыл бұрын

The reason people want it is because it is similar to bmx lol.

@jadendubecky4130

Жыл бұрын

@@herlinastevens9474 I ride one and I love it.. gotta try it sometime

@jadendubecky4130

Жыл бұрын

@@brianbmx85 id ride one but it’d have to be more comfortable than a dirtjumper for me to buy one.. for me it seems limiting on what you can do it

@herlinastevens9474

Жыл бұрын

@@jadendubecky4130 I've ridden dirt jumper big wheels are lame

All my locals are ruben fans as ruben is from my town and when ever i get my swamp master is going to be a bit beefy 😂 I'll just let ruben check it out for him to make a batter one

How much do you guys think these monsters will weigh?

@Brant_Moore

Жыл бұрын

Good question!

Well I’ll get a battleship but probs not this thing

It s real or its a joke? I ride my bmx as a utility bike , so i will love disc brake on my bike!

wtp having to wait is just bull because for something to become main stream and actually be a thing instead of just really weird it must be used by multiple companies especially a big one like wtp

This is going forever now. I bought a 26’ dj instead.

Mountain biking is really expensive and having a BMX version is way more appealing to me. I don't like the look of mountain bikes. I think bmx bikes just look so much better. Taking what I love about bmx and then adding some of the things I like from mountain biking would be cool I think.

@jeremybaker5444

Жыл бұрын

I like the agility of my BMX vs my 29'er MTB

Reuben was never going to release a retail bike ever so someone had to fill the desire he buikt and hyoed up.

I’ll never want one of these so it doesn’t bother the either way I suppose

It’s not that crazy unique idea. Someone would have eventually done it. Just look at a kids bike at Walmart I’m sure they had a small suspension bike at some point. We the people has been more than fair when they really didn’t have to wait at all in my opinion. They would only legally have to wait if they had a patent on it that needs to expire 🤷🏻‍♂️

If this catches on like a dirt jumper every company will start making them. Then they will all be “copy cats”.

I don’t see a market for this bike, I would prefer to have a Bmx and a mtb in my garage not some weird hybrid

Is everyone who makes 2pc cranks now just copycats of Boss and older designs?

Copy have to wait. Like If you’re in love with the girlfriend of your friend, no choice but wait my friend

Who cares that’s why it’s Called BMX FREESTYLE,also Bmx Lives

Fingers crossed isnt doing shit lmao. WTP did not owe them two years let alone a minute longer. Not only that but once WTP bike comes out more people will realize how fun it is and fingers crossed will have larger audience to sell to (if they ever make a bike)

6 months is enough! 3 month is enough for Chinese to make their own knock off brand

Lets be realistic. This bike is going to be well beyond your average BMX riders price point. I'd say its going to be more than a $1500 bike, possibly much more depending how it's spec'ed. It's very niche and it's intended purpose will be lost in the fact that BMX is already established. Your not going to reinvent BMX. Crankworxs already exists. Dirt jumping already has that platform covered. As a 50 year who still owns and rides a BMX + a dirtjumper and a hardtail MTB. I think that the BMX bike is the original hardtail and should remain that way. That's just my personal opinion.

... Full suspension BMX bikes are nothing new, Rays has one hanging up from the late 70's early 80"s

This is in every industry, ALWAY COPY CATS. You should at least give credit for insparation. This takes alot of money for a small company to produce.

Money, talks, bullshit walks. Fingers crossed had their chance they didn’t produce anything. and at the end of it it’s called business. There’s nothing new in the Bmx scene. I’d love to see something different. Someone is going to need to come to the table now. we the people did something real nice they gave them two years and they never produced anything there’s money on the table end of the day call business. And I would really like to see a change for once.

They never came out with it so it's not theirs.Its still a bike, I don't understand the issue. If you say copy cat , they I claim a 29er bmx with full suspension and anyone who wants to make now cannot cause I am gonna make one.......maybe someday ........ This should be a non- convo discussion

@Brant_Moore

Жыл бұрын

Yet look at a few of these comments. It’s crazy

why should the progression of bmx wait for some dudes to be ready to put their product on the market? and if its such a coveted idea why speak about it publicly when theres much more capable brands that can execute it.

If WTP had their bike ready so early they probably created them before Fingers crossed video came out. The fact that WTP was waiting for them was just nice and absolutely not needed from them.

Oof. Not releasing a product over hurt feelings? That's embarrassing.

No thanks.

this isn't an original concept other bigger companies have tried this before.

What a ridiculous argument. I think WTP are well within their right to release these now. With this sort of nonsense no one would ever be able make anything. Imagine the mtb world if only one brand could use suspension or disc brakes!

It’s a non issue, neither one of these companies are going to be the soul provider of this type of bike if it takes off, its just childish big wigs again.