I bring both. The closed cell keeps ground objects from puncturing my pad as well as adding a bit of insulation. The air pad provides comfort and insulation.

@hiddendreamer7423

11 ай бұрын

Ooh, nice!

@whbjr.6400

11 ай бұрын

I was gonna ask that question!

@randomweirdo2701

10 ай бұрын

I do the same. I get several flats an outing otherwise with all the thorns everywhere.

@Felipe-fw3tx

4 ай бұрын

I bring a long foam and short inflatable.

@Ggorazzi

3 ай бұрын

Yup I can get away with a lighter air pad by carrying both as well.. adding it up will weigh a bit more but it's soooo worth it cause you can wip out that foam pad anywhere and have a picnic. Think of it as layering for your sleep comfort. When it's cold out, you lay out footprint, pop-up your tent, put down a foam pad, an airpad and on top of that a sleeping bag with a thermal liner.. and I can take out layers when it gets warmer so I don't have to buy new gear because it's too hot or too cold.

I’ve always camped with a waterbed. Can’t beat the comfort 🎉

@TwoSoundsatOnce

Жыл бұрын

Capitalize on that one. There maybe something to that lol

@TwoSoundsatOnce

Жыл бұрын

Using an oversized 100 percent and very heavy torso length Puncture Proof water bladder.we might be on to something water bladder and sleep pad combo warm your water inside in the winter. Ok.. I'm done.

@timbschwartz

Жыл бұрын

Let me know when the Kickstarter is live!

@khamen723

Жыл бұрын

@@timbschwartz 🤣

Believe it or not, I’ve always camped with my twin sized mattress. Nothing beats hauling that thing on my back for 20 miles then not being able to wake up the next day. Best sleep of my life 🎉

@Prisoner_jeff

11 ай бұрын

Now that is the solution.

@sueddo2634

11 ай бұрын

@@Prisoner_jeff you can always count on me for once in a lifetime advice, literally.

I have both. I’ve heard it’s good to pair them together for colder temps

@timbschwartz

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely! I have the foam for summer, xtherm for fall/winter, and can combine them for REALLY winter.

@frogturtle

Жыл бұрын

@@timbschwartz nice. I went with the same setup but with a short nemo switchback

I bring both when I mountain climb, you need the closed cell foam to insulate the air mattress from the snow or ice from the glacier you are sleeping on. I had been climbing a few years ago and two newbs showed up with only their sleeping bags, the next morning both were ruined and almost hypothermic, the snow sucked the heat from them and their sleeping bags were rendered almost useless.

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Wowsa - I'm honestly shocked they were ok. Yeah like with most things the rules change a bit when you get into the extremes. I've had the xtherm on the snow down to about 20F, and stayed relatively toasty despite being a coldish sleeper. The xtherm isn't really a "normal" inflatable pad, though. Thanks for the comment!

@richardjohnson4696

11 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartz The one buddy bailed on the other and found a place in the Muir public shelter, his buddy stayed the whole night out on the glacier, when I saw him while I was making my breakfast super early, he looked and sounded like a drugged tweeker looking for drugs, but, he was looking for his buddy who abandoned him. Neither were high IQ individuals and I was kinda shocked they were up at Muir just to spend the night, you normally don't see many smokers at 10.000ft who can carry a weighted pack that high, most likely why they left their pads at the car, less weight to carry.

Both. CCF pad protects bottom of inflatable pad and can be used for a quick sit pad

@timbschwartz

Жыл бұрын

Love that! Nobody likes a deflated pad.

I've used a blue closed cell ensolite pad for 44 years. Bought for $5 in 1978. I've camped 12,000 nights since bought it, I camp 9 months a year and have since 78.

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

That's what I call value right there! Lol I just googled it to see if I could find the brand name and a review written by you popped up on Trailspace. You're officially the blue ensolite pad expert!

Yeah, foam pads are definitely more reliable, but inflatable pads are way more comfortable and flexible. I just finished my hike in Norway and I am so happy, that I bought a good quality, thick, inflatable sleeping pad. It was almost impossible to find a flat surface with no stones, roots e.g. to set up a tent. I would be so struggling, if I just took a foam pad. I also took a thin foam pad, and used it as a sitting/laying surface for the rest throughout the day and layed it under my inflatable pad in the night for extra warmth and protection. In the end I would recommend to have a thick inflatable pad, if you want a normal sleep.

strap the foam to the outside and it doesn't take up any interior space at all, doesn't matter because it can't be damaged

If you are on a summer hike, I can really recommend Jökel of Sweden's light weight air mattress. It weighs 480g (~17 ounces). It is so thin but is unbelievable comfortable! And even after a long day of hike, it's so easy to inflate with your lungs only. Plus it does not take a lot of space in your backpack! Edit: It's R-value is only 2, so therefore I wouldn't take it on a colder hike/camping trip

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the heads up! Maybe I'll give it a try.

@Sleepy7666

2 ай бұрын

You shouldn't inflate pads with air from your lungs. It blows moisture and bacteria in-tends to mold them before they fail.

Perfect timing! I was debating which one to start with! Thank you!

@timbschwartz

Жыл бұрын

Oh nice! I'm so glad I was able to help. Have fun!

this is incredibly helpful for decision making

@timbschwartz

4 күн бұрын

Thanks for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it

I can't stand the inflatable ones. I toss and turn and end up sliding off all the time.

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Yeah I'm slowly becoming a foam guy for exactly that reason.

Backpacked all over the west with an old Coleman pad

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Nice! Closed cell foam, I take it?

@12bucklemyshoes101

11 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartz yessir thanks for the reply!

The only problem of foam is the volume

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Totally agree. I absolutely hate strapping things to the outside of my pack.

I just got both a switchback pad and a (puncture prone) tensor as well as a StS Etherlight Extreme I’m thinking in the summer if I wanted to pack light just using the foam might be a little tricky, only sleeping on your back, and in the summer, obviously

@timbschwartz

8 ай бұрын

Personally, I'm one of the oddballs that happily sleeps on my side with a foam pad - you may be the same. Random thought, but try stretching daily if you don't already and you find sleeping on foam on your side uncomfortable - it makes a world of difference for how comfortable you sleep on the ground. Thanks for the comment!

I use both at the same time!

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Always a good option!

Bring both!

I carry 2 wool blankets and a tarp 7th day on the road to another city

To me the key is SELF inflating pads. Less room and very light.

@mindfulicious

11 ай бұрын

Mine came with a bag to catch air but I don't use it. I just use my lungs. A few breaths literally works.

@Chris66able

11 ай бұрын

No, self inflating are the heaviest there is.

@udance4ever

10 ай бұрын

@@Chris66able yeah this was my understanding too - esp the ones that are part foam - they also don’t pack as small as when you bought it. I really do prefer these over the fully inflatable ones if weight & volume wasn’t an issue!

@Jasiel.95

8 ай бұрын

@@Chris66ableI literally went backpacking with one and will never make that mistake again ever. Was super comfortable! Sleeping but it weighs almost 4 lbs.

@Sleepy7666

2 ай бұрын

​@@mindfuliciousthat's how you get mold in sleeping pads.

As a side sleeper, I’ve never been comfortable with a closed cell foam pad. My hip feels like it’s against a rock. My Z-rest type pads have been cut up into smaller sections for sit pads and insulation when I’m in a hammock, which I’ve found to be a good substitute for an underquilt down to about 45 degrees, when used in conjunction with a wind blocker/spray skirt under the hammock. The wind blocker holds the pad between it and the outside of the hammock.

@timbschwartz

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment, Andrew! I was actually looking for an option to avoid buying an underquilt for my hammock until I know for sure that I enjoy it, so this is super helpful!

foam would be neat! but my friend generously gifted me a 6ft inflatable thermarest, so i will graciously accept 😊

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Free is always good! haha

something about the air just doesn't work for me, back and neck always don't feel great. I'll take the closed cell foam until otherwise!

@timbschwartz

4 ай бұрын

Hey! I'm actually a big fan of foam for that reason as well. My body tends to tense up on air pads and pillows, no idea why.

Or in winter both. Lol. I prefer the quick setup of closed cell but dislike the packability or lack of. On your back of the pack for cushioning. Cool. I also be usually carry a heavy duty poncho to create an emergency bed or for bushcrafting to make a dibri bed under my tent inner or cot. Those aren't the most effective for distance hiking but it just my reference.

@timbschwartz

Жыл бұрын

Great tips! Both is a good option for colder months, and natural materials, even if it means just choosing a spot with a little more forest duff, can have a huge impact on warmth. Thanks for the comment!

I use both for snow!

A good inflatable pad is much lighter than a foam pad. Most decent inflatables are around 1 pound, where a foam pad is at least 2 pounds. Inflatables are lighter, warmer, more comfortable, and packdown smaller. The only thing foam is better at is durability. You're not risking slow leaks or a complete hole in your foam pad.

@chiupolky

4 ай бұрын

i am curious what foam u use😂

@timbschwartz

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment! There are a handful of full sized foam options under a pound that you could check out if you're curious: Nemo switchback - 14.5 oz Thermarest Zlite Sol - 14 oz Thermarest RidgeRest - 14 0z Gossamer Gear Thinlight - 3.3 oz (super thin, but people use 'em)

Your recommendation is to pick up the more expensive one first? Not to mention there are planty of inflatable pads comparable in weight to even the lightest foam pads unless you're cutting a couple panels off your foam pad to save weight. If you're young and camping on a campsite then a foam pad is plenty comfortable.

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Hi there! Correct - I'd recommend the inflatable first. It's warmer and most people consider them more comfortable. Thanks for the comment!

You can argue that inlatable pads are comfortable because they are. You can change how firm an inglatable pad is. There are also incredibly light inflatable pads.

I got a combo, it's a closed cell foam pad in a liner that can be inflated

What about the R value? Closed foams will require so much space to accomplish anything above R4. Personally I’d use one closed foam and inflatable one in conjunction.

@timbschwartz

5 ай бұрын

Agreed, CCF is really only for summer use unless you are in the mood to hunt for a very good campsite with lots of insulating material on the ground. I never got into combining pads, I have a super warm inflatable for fall winter, and a CCF for summer. It works well for me personally, but we all have our preferences. Thanks for the comment!

Used a roll up army surplus foam pad when working on a trail crew for six months. Slept like a babe every night, but I think that's because it wasn't a therma-rest style, tried a therma-rest and just can't stand the bumps on my back. So remember, not all foam pads are made the same, experiment a little!

@timbschwartz

5 ай бұрын

Very good point! Totally agreed - not all foam pads are the same in terms of comfort.

Closed cell foam pads are the most uncomfortable things ever made. Youll instantly regret it after a day on the trailm

@kriswibbenhorstermeister9885

Жыл бұрын

I’ve used both. My big Agnes rapide is second to none imo

@jeffdur1330

11 ай бұрын

@kriswibbenhorstermeister9885 tbh it's pretty reasonably priced too.

Haha hammock instead

Find a hollow similar to your standard sleeping shape and position. Stamp one onto wet soil if you have to.

I bought an inflatable pad off Amazon for $15 and it works great, I got a 60l pack for 19 and a hammock several years ago for like 17.....

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Nicely done!

@Jb-qn2xz

11 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartz thanks, it doesn't have to be expensive. Fandom and popularity destroys everything, hiking/backpacking included. You don't need hundreds or thousands of dollars in gear; the cheaper stuff will work just as good and it isn't much difference in weight. That ounces equals pounds stuff is nonsense for the most part if you have to get a scale and measure gear in ounces or grams, at that point you're just being pretentious. 1-5 pounds is an unnoticeable amount.

Inflatable pad is significantly HEAVIER and prone to puncture. (especially expensive and light ones) Closed cell pad is BULKY but lightweight.

@Sleepy7666

2 ай бұрын

Exped Dura 8R solved that puncture issue.

lol i started out with a closed foam pad (classic Ridgerest!) cuz there was no way in hell i could afford a “high quality inflatable pad” 😆 20 years later, I decided to splurge on a NEMO Tensor and now debating whether to get a rolled or folding 1/8” pad to protect it 🤔

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment! Personally, I've found that a Tyvek ground sheet does a great job of protecting my inflatable pad.

@udance4ever

10 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartz thank you for the tip! this sounds like a really inexpensive & compact way to go! not to mention sub for my existing footprint when I need to go UL! EDIT: just realized the same size Tyvek weighs 10% more than my 30D footprint! so I'm looking at the pros/cons of Polycro which is hard to believe it comes in at a quarter of the weight!

Ive never had an inflatable pad not go flat on me i tried a closed cell foam pad but its to uncomfortable, i just got a "ultralight" cot we'll see how it goes

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Let me know how it works out! That's the same reason I'm attracted to foam - I love not having to baby it.

First question, do you sleep on your back and don’t change positions? Answer anything but yes, and you need an inflatable or self-inflating pad.

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment, Austin! I think most people would agree with you. I tend to roll around quite a bit and sleep on my side/stomach, but lately have been using CCF and enjoying it. I like that if my foot or elbow comes off the pad it doesn't drop 3 inches and wake me up, and for whatever reason I get sort of tense on inflatables - like my body is trying to balance while sleeping.

we need more long form vids!!!!!!!

@timbschwartz

Жыл бұрын

Very soon, my friend!

@vanguardcycle

Жыл бұрын

@@timbschwartz these shorts are great too! but still..deep dive on something esoteric would be rad!!

For my uses most closed cell foams are too brightly colored

Air pads are inherently more comfortable - it's not a matter of 'preference'.

@timbschwartz

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment! I know lots of backpackers that prefer CCF over inflatables, myself included. I find that my body tends to tense up while sleeping on inflatables for whatever reason. My neck/back are always happier with foam.

@jameswalter3136

5 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartzOkay. To each his own.

4 feet of closed cell is all you need if you're trying to save space

@timbschwartz

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment, Dave! Yeah I'd like to give a thin evazote pad a shot at some point - bit more of a learning curve in terms of site selection, though.

This is a false choice. Very few backpackers, and even fewer traditional backpackers, would rely solely on a closed-cell foam pad for their sleep system. (Heck, even a lot of ultra-light backpackers like Jupiter Hikes have gone away from using only a closed-cell foam pad). Most backpackers (and especially traditional backpackers) are looking for convenience and comfort, with weight and bulk secondary or tertiary considerations. While a closed-cell foam pad might be convenient it wouldn’t offer much in terms of comfort for most people. The reality is most adult backpackers who would bring a closed-cell foam pad would bring it as a multi-purpose surface (like a place to sit or lie down on trail breaks and in camp, a place to set items that they don’t want to get dirty before setting up their tent, a place to set their canister stove so the canister wouldn’t be exposed directly to the snow, etc.) and to ultimately use under a more comfortable sleeping pad (self-inflated or inflatable) to protect the pad from punctures, marginally increase comfort, or significantly increase warmth on frozen ground or snow.

@timbschwartz

8 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment, Jeffrey! While I admit that most backpackers would be best served with an inflatable pad (which I state in the video), I respectfully disagree that it's a false choice, because 1) foam pads are listed as a common gear item for some of the most successful long distance hikers, and 2) these pads are marketed as stand alone solutions by gear companies. So, for better or worse, the choice exists. Personally, I enjoy using a foam pad during the summer months since I can just throw it on the ground and be done, but I completely agree with you on the positives of inflatable sleeping pads. Have a great weekend!

@jeffreycarman2185

8 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartz thank you for your response. I envy anyone who can get any sleep on a foam pad. I am now too old to get any meaningful sleep on the traditional self-inflating mattresses with a ridgerest or z-rest underneath. But all I meant is that, you can have the best of both worlds.

close cell foam is such a brutal sleep, i'd rather have a good sleep with an inflatable and have a better day.

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment! Very much a personal choice - some people love inflatables, and others like something firmer, but I agreed that sleep is the most important thing!

I've never had a good night's sleep on closed cell foam. Inflatable wins for me.

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Lately I've been enjoying CCF because I don't fall off of it lol. To each their own, though!

EXPED Megamat sleeping bliss.

I’ll be honest… I’m all about losing weight in my pack… but I’ll fight anyone who try’s and takes my inflatable mattress lol!

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Hahaha! You could always chance it with an Uberlight :)

Most of the time the foam pad can be strapped to the out side so they dont take up any space in your pack

@timbschwartz

Жыл бұрын

Very true! Still take up real estate that could go to other gear, though. Thanks for pointing that out!

@udance4ever

10 ай бұрын

I want to get a 1/8” pad to complement my inflatable pad but I hear 1/8” is so thin it doesn’t take abuse on the trail very well while strapped to the outside of your pack :/

Foam pads are also significantly more uncomfortable...

@timbschwartz

25 күн бұрын

Thanks for the comment! I'm one of those odd ducks that actually prefers sleeping on foam, but to each their own!

@lysan1445

25 күн бұрын

@@timbschwartz A friend of mine also prefers the foam pads. I am actually a hammock user wherever possible.

If I just use a closed cell, my hip bones dig into the cold ground and chill my whole body. Are closed cell pads only for warmer climates?

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Hi! Generally speaking, yeah they're better in warmer climates. Some especially hearty folks can sleep on them in colder weather - I'm not one of them.

I prefer a SIM to avoid the baloon feeling of pure inflatables

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment! I do agree that they are more comfortable and are a solid middle ground. I don't use them often though because they're not super warm, light, or packable in my experience. Since they combine foam with air, you sort of get all of the benefits AND all of the drawbacks of each. It's still a solid choice though if that's what gives you the best night's sleep!

@robertsandiford6223

10 ай бұрын

​​​@@timbschwartz Hey. When you compare like-for-like (i.e. you need 2 foam mats to get the same R value as 1 SIM or insulated inflatable, not to mention comfort), they are pretty much a middle ground between the two. If they are also comfortable to sleep on, that sounds pretty good to me. Also if they puncture the foam should still get you through the night. If you don't need the insulation and padding and are considering a single foam mat, then you can bring the super thin SIMs/Infs into the comparison, and uninsulated inflatable mats, which are way cheaper. I have a Rab exosphere for cycle travelling. Pretty happy with it. Size and weight is less of an issue there.

Why not Both

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

That's a good option as well!

Closed cell foam is a waste of money, room and weight

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

To each their own! I love the weight savings compared to an inflatable, but do hate the bulk. I'm considering cutting mine to torso length.

Or ... both 😃

I just sleep on the dirt

What pad is that?

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

The inflatable is a Thermarest NeoAir Xtherm, and the foam is from MontBell. Thanks for the comment!

Or, get hammock system and eliminate the pain in the butt, hips, knees and back pads all together 😂

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment! I have one, just not worth the extra weight to me in all but a few circumstances. Great for when I'm looking to mostly hang out at camp, though.

@lost1croc

10 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartz Damn Brother! You need to check out Superior Gear Hammocks. My entire load out of shelter, top quilt, integrated under quilt down to zero degrees is roughly 5 lbs. There isn’t a tent, sleeping bag and pad combo that comes anywhere near that.

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Respectfully, there are several tent systems out there that for roughly half that weight. Zpacks Plex solo tent w/ pole, thermarest uberlite, and zpacks 20 degree sleeping bag comes to 2.7 lbs, for a reasonably comfortable setup. Switch that to a tarp a foam pad, and you can get that down to under 2 llbs. That said, not everyone wants to go that extreme, so I totally get why you'd want to go with something a bit more comfortable.

@lost1croc

10 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartz You would be the exception to the rule. Regardless where I’ve hiked in the east, rarely if ever do I see tent hikers who don’t look like hiring a Sherpa wouldn’t be a bad idea during the cooler months. 😂 Age and being a thicker fella factors in too, I’m also an old “Light” Infantryman and there was nothing remotely light about it so sleeping on a dry cloud is much appreciated!🤣

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

@@lost1croc Haha I'm sure! I'll give it a shot again at some point - my hammock is pretty light, I just haven't been able to get myself to pull the trigger on an underquilt quite yet.

The nemo tensor is terrible. Switching back to thermarest

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Good to know! Any experience with the zlite SOL?

@jeffdur1330

11 ай бұрын

Is that the one the one that sounds like a bag of potato chips?

@jeffdur1330

11 ай бұрын

My favorite is the thermarest prolite.

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Ah my mistake I was thinking the tensor was their closed cell pad. The zlite sol is thermarest's CCF but it has reflective material on one side - supposedly relatively warm.

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Oh nice! We have one of those too. My fiancee grabbed one for like $30 off of fbook marketplace when she first started backpacking with me.

Nice beard

@timbschwartz

4 күн бұрын

Thanks!

Orrrrrr…. You could not sleep on the ground 😂

@timbschwartz

10 ай бұрын

Haha! I've been tempted by hammocks lately. We'll see where it takes me.

@EricTremblayAdventures

10 ай бұрын

@@timbschwartz 8lbs I can have me & my gf in our own separate hammocks, with a shelter, pillows & top quilts. Superior Gear.

come on man if cavemen didn't need either why do you

Great advice. I have inflatable. Love it. May try foam at some point just to see difference.

@timbschwartz

11 ай бұрын

Worth giving it a shot! My 2 cents, try it out in the warmer months and try to avoid hard packed ground when possible. I've been quite cold on a foam pad many times, but it's usually not an issue June/July/August around here as long as I'm not up super high.

@thefungshueshitter2833

10 ай бұрын

Inflatable fucking suck it’s too much of a pita just get a cheap therma rest and throw it on the ground

I could never use just a closed cell if camping on hard stand so I take both a closed cell and an inflatable but if I know I’m camping on somewhere very grassy or sandy like a coastline usually is I will risk just a closed cell.

I prefer sleeping on a bed of skin blistering hot rocks