You absolutely have the best signal-to-noise ratio of any backpacking-related KZread person. Hands-down, not even close. Thanks for these videos, they’re much appreciated.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

7 ай бұрын

Appreciate the feedback! That's the goal here - good S/N is critical :)

Solid video, Kane. After 20+ years of avoiding winter camping - I did enough of it in the army - I'm falling back in love with it. Turns out, winter camping is a whole lot more enjoyable with gear that was actually designed for winter camping 😉. This is my second consecutive season of winter camping. I'm a fan of single-wall tents for winter - my current tent is a Tarptent Double Rainbow Li. I once ordered a "winter" tent (Nemo Kunai) and returned it a few days later - too heavy. I do have a TR XTherm but I can't seem to get a consistent good night's sleep on it (I kept getting numb shoulders and sore hips). I'm currently experimenting with the new Nemo Tensor Extreme Conditions and so far, so good. I appreciate all the gear mentions, Kane. Thank you. 🙏🏼

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

Winter tents definitely weigh a ton. As for ground pads, definitely gotta go with what works for you!

@user-kd1du1yp4g

6 ай бұрын

MSR Access is a little lighter weighing about 4 pounds. But I don't camp in snow so might be too much for some winter trips

If you pop your sleeping pad you’re not in trouble if you can problem solve and make a sleeping pad from your environment. A bag stuffed with a buttload of those pine needles will give you good cushion and air pockets to do a decent job of protecting you from heat loss on the ground. I’ve done it before and wouldn’t hesitate to do it again.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

Ya I would just makes a big pile of pine branches and put the mattress on top to protect my sleeping bag, plus is has reflective material in it.

I like this walk through a lot. When I was backcountry ski camping in my 20s on the shoulder of my Shasta we always used my old black diamond megamid. I definitely agree with you on a floorless setup for winter. It does make it easy to get in and out. Maybe a goretex bivy if things are insane. The only thing I wont ever do is use an inflatable pad, period. For winter I will do a ridge rest 6' with a 6' reflectix pad combo. Toasty warm. I started my backpacking career in the Southern California desert so it's kind of engrained in me to not use an inflatable pad. Plus I use a hammock whenever I possibly can. I like your style for sure! I don't think I will ever try a hot tent. I don't want to spend half my time looking for, collecting and processing firewood. I have a -20 EMS synthetic bag. So I'm good. It's big but warm. Take care and thanks. NQU

@KaneDoesOutdoors

5 ай бұрын

IMO hot tents don't translate well to covering significant distances by foot. The amount of time they take to set up, get wood processed etc is huge, plus the energy to carry that equipment just doesn't add up. If you've got a snow machine, sled dogs, or just want to walk a short distance and camp out with a fire, sure.

@notquiteultralight1701

5 ай бұрын

@@KaneDoesOutdoors I couldn't agree more. Plus I get claustrophobic pretty quick and I don't go backpacking as a hobby because I like to sit around in tight enclosed spaces. I was going to ask if you ever take a hammock system with you on trips as I do because the population in New England is such that the backcountry sites are usually inundated with people on the weekends 12 months out of the year and a lot of times some serious drinking goes on. I'm a sober alcoholic and don't want to be around that so I stealth camp with friends using LNT principles and hammocks makes stealth camping so much easier. I have a plethora of different styles and sizes of twig stoves eliminating any scarring on the ground and for deep winter of course my msr simmerlite comes along with plenty of white gas. Good chatting! Thanks for getting back to me.

I'm really happy with my Exped "dura" 8R sleeping pad. I think the R-value is 7.8, but more importantly it seems way, way more robust than the ultralight pads. I'm sure it weighs a few ounces more, but it's worth it for the peace of mind and for the fact that it will last a lot longer. If you're out in truly cold temps with nothing but an ultralight pad, you're taking somewhat of a gamble.

@mobilewintercamp7515

7 ай бұрын

I have the 7, haven’t used it anywhere close to its potential but for years I’ve seen all the Nordic people use ExPed in real low temps. When native people of an area use or do something repeatedly for years that usually says all you need to know

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

The Xtherm is a pretty tough pad. Definitely thicker material than UL mats like the XLite.

Kane Does "Serious Winter" Outdoors

I like my now out-of-production LL Bean -20 F. mummy. It has every feature I wanted in a winter mummy. But yeah, it has no "arm hole" zippers. I lay my "day clothes" under my winter mattress for extra insulation. My parka shell gets zipped up, hood cinched and put over the bag's foot to keep melted tent frost off my bag.

Excellent summary.....thank you !!!

Excellent info learned from practical experiences in proper winter conditions.

Big winter camping guy here as well but in the french alps, love my msr access 2 ! Really light for what it offers and still provides a really noticeable warmth with the double layer, defo not as minimal as your setup but i find the added weight in my books, waking up in the morning is a lot easier now that i got this baby instead of the tarp i used before !

Always good. Thanks.

You know what you are talking about. Good video.

Cool vid. Thank You and Have a Happy Xmas 😊

Great stuff cheers 👍

Nice video ❄️👍

After watching this and your video, "Activate Your Tent's Winter Camping Mode," I'm going to use my single-wall, ultralight trekking pole tent more in winter. I've used it on snow in November here in the Rockies, and it was fine, so I don't know why I always think I have to swap it out for a winter tent once December hits. Of course my Hilleberg Soulo is reassuringly secure when winter winds are blowing, but it is comparatively heavy and bulky. I'm learning a lot from your videos, thanks.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

It's definitely worth trying out - just keep in mind that I'm not using a single wall shelter with built in mosquito netting. Those frost up like crazy.

@JessicaTPeterson

6 ай бұрын

@@KaneDoesOutdoors Thanks for pointing that out. I do have the netting built in to mine, and it wouldn't have occurred to me that it would make that much difference. If I try it, I'll leave the netting doors completely unzipped and rolled up.

Awesome video. That is my dream sleeping bag that hopefully I will be able to purchase for the next winter season. Thank you for confirming that is worth the investment. For a shelter I'm also saving to buy the Msr Acces 2. In my opinion I think is the best freestanding true winter shelter on the market right now as of weight to strength ratio in adverse winter conditions. The problem with this non free standing single wall pole tents is that they have very poor structural support for snow bearing capabilities. I also have the Thermarest NXT Max and it's truly amazing. I always bring a Sol Lite foam pad for emergency or to sit on around camp, to strech on, etc. Also a colapsable pee bottle to have right by my side so I don't have to get out from my tent. Also when we are inside the sleeping bag our body burns around 1000 calories to keep our core temperature optimal. So this means that if we don't eat enough carbs and also fats, more importantly fats actually, then we will be uncomfortably cold even inside a warm sleeping bag. Because like you mentioned, our body has to warm the air inside the sleeping bag and only then the sleeping bag will become effective to keep that warm air trapped around us to help our body maintain it's optimal core temperature. So if we don't have enough of the proper nutrients in our body then we will be very uncomfortable. It's like a furnace without fire wood. So lets imagine our body is the furnace and the sleeping bag is the room. The furnace warms up the room and the the room traps the heat inside. So again, if not eating right for winter camping then we will be always uncomfortable. Another thing to consider is warming up before going inside the sleeping bag like doing some sit ups etc to get the body warm but not to the point of getting sweaty because then we will get cold. Also very important is not to hold urine in, as the body spends lots of calories to keep it warm inside us. So we must pee as soon as possible we have the urge. Winter camping is so much fun but is quite technical compared to summer camping. If done right then it's very enjoyable and epic should I say😊.

followed your recommendations and used the Durson X-mid 2p shell on a winter hike to the San Jacinto mountain (SoCal) in 27F/-3C. The recommendations were spot on and everything went well and the extra room was great. The only issue was the I needed a shovel to break the stakes free from the ice, basically I was slept on top of a slab of ice.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

4 ай бұрын

Sometime the snow turns to solid ice during the night.... Pretty common that I have to pry may stakes out as well. That's one of the reason why I pack a real avy shovel even if I"m not in avalanche terrain.

I generally find you and your videos to be sensible. Thanks.

Nice vid Kane!

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

Thanks✌️

I always bring a CCF pad for kneeling, sitting, and generally really useful piece of equipment. Having the that pad, I can use an Exped 5R down to -12C (10F) very easily without feeling cold from the ground, which is super comfortable and light. I used to have an XTherm but found it to be really uncomfortable.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

CCF is one of the most important pieces of gear, on any winter trip be it a single day or multi day. A lot of people swear by the exped mats, I've just never had an issue comfort with with the NeoAir family.

Nice gear.

Addicted to your no BS videos Kane, just pure gold info! I’m tossing up getting an Xmid 2 solid and rocking it with just the fly like you have been doing for snow trips. Just wondering, do you reckon the double peak design of the xmid is better than regular mids (like your MSR front range) at shedding snow? And in what conditions would you not bring the xmid out and opt for a more bomber 4 season shelter? Seems like you’re quite comfy pushing it into the 4th season, so just curious to where you think the limit might be. Thanks a million in advance! Keep up the great work

@KaneDoesOutdoors

5 ай бұрын

That’s great! The only time I’d switch to a different shelter from the x-mid is if weight wasn’t a concern, or possibly somewhere with no shelter like the arctic or the Antarctic. I’ve broken a pole setting up a Mountain Hardwear mountaineering tent before and it quickly becomes useless. Nothing is perfect but I’m generally able to get some protection from wind where I camp. The x-mid is better in heavy snow than a single pole pyramid- steeper walls.

@SM-qk9dy

5 ай бұрын

@@KaneDoesOutdoors Legend, thanks for the reply! Looks like the xmids a winner, time to checkout that cart :)

@KaneDoesOutdoors

5 ай бұрын

@SM-qk9dy honestly I tried to hold off on the xmid for a long time but after trying the 1p and 1p pro I was sold. The hype is real. The only problem with the geometry is that the 1p pro is a bit small for me and going to the 2p pro is huge. I like the extra space of the 2p silpoly for winter though. Gonna be my go-to for a long time.

@SM-qk9dy

5 ай бұрын

@@KaneDoesOutdoors Same! I'm actually also 6ft3 and your video w the pro 1 vs altaplex was the reason why I didn't pull the trigger on the pro 1, and got a pro 2 instead. But the xmid 2 solid silpoly looks like the perfect tent for those shoulder season trips for me and my partner in the australian alps, where lumpy ground usually means wind drafts finds its way into the inside of the tent and saps away at my sleep systems heat. So that solid inner will be pretty nice for that wind draft block. And then the fly only option for when there's snow, like how you do it, makes it perfect for full on winter!

Great review of your winter system . If I was doing the same trip as you I think my gear would be similar . I just wonder how your tent perform under heavy snow and strong winds ? Moi mon sac de couchage c'est un Marmot coté -40 , so I sleep only with my base layer and put the rest of my clothes at the feet of my bag , wich is longer than me . And I do have the openings for the arms too. My thermarest mat is rated 4.9 but I would like to upgrade to the one you have , but in the rectangular shape , as I move a lot in my sleep . Weight is less an issue for me as I use a pulk during winter season . Thanks for all your insights , very interesting as usual

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

I think you have to move snow off and away from any tent. The mids shed snow well but it accumulates around the base. As for winds I try to avoid very exposed areas. I've snapped a Mountain Hardware Trango tent pole ibn strong winds years ago - not while the tent was standing, during setup! That's a problem.

I’m always wondering which tent to use in the winter… some people advocate flourless tarps while others go for black label Hilleberg tents? I guess other than low temps you don’t get the severe winds and heavy snowboards like they do in Scandinavia or the Scottish highlands? Can you also talk about how you store your food in the winter when there aren’t any trees.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

7 ай бұрын

We get several meters of snow here every winter - the snowpack might be 3 m come spring. Last weekend I didn't go out because winds were going to be over 100 km per hour on ridges. The day before we got 80 cm of snow. Hard to imagine winter in Scotland being more extreme than here. Different challenges perhaps. When the weather turns bad I camp in a sheltered areas and away from avalanche zones. Camping on ridges makes for cool pictures but there are better places that will increase your comfort and safety. Double wall tents are pretty solid once you set them up, but I've broken a tent pole on a Mountain Hardwear Trango during the setup because of a gust of wind. There are pros and cons to every type of shelter.

Do you ever use a tarp or something as a floor? Do you ever dig a hole in the tent to step down, sit with your feet dropped, leave a shelf as a table? I see Nordic people do that in the oversized vestibule when XC ski camping. Thanks for the video, this is my big year for stepping up my winter backpacking 😊

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

I used to put some tyvek down but didn't find that it helped with anything. Depending on the snow, yes, I'll sometimes dig a little sitting/cooking area at the door. In that trip I dug it a few feet away from the tent since there wasn't any wind and it's nice to have extra space to stand up and walk around.

Do you get condensation in the top of your Polar Ranger? I have the Nemo Sonic which has the same temperature ratings as the Polar Ranger. Toasty warm. I’ve not been out in as low as -20 degC, but I do wake up with the top of the bag over my torso soaking wet.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

You will get condensation in any sleeping bag if the dew point is in the insulation. I'll get the same condensation at the outer shell that you're describing when the temps are pretty warm (relatively speaking in winter conditions) and the dew point is right at the edge of the bag. When it's even colder the condensation will form somewhere in the down and you just won't notice it at the beginning of a trip, but it's there and accumulating every night. The only solution is using a vapour barrier, which is a whole different topic. That video is in the works :)

Nice Video! How is the snow loading on the durston? I have a lanshan 1 and recently got the 4 season inner for it.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

The walls are much steeper than the lanshan, so it sheds snow very well.

@cheapskatehiker

6 ай бұрын

@@KaneDoesOutdoors thanks for the reply! That makes sense, ok I will avoid snow storms then

If you sleep in the clothes you wear during the day, does moisture get in the sleeping bag? Just wondering about your perspective on the value of bringing a fresh set of long johns to sleep in. Thanks.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

5 ай бұрын

I keep all my clothes on, and only take layers off working from the outside in if I'm too warm. I talk about that in this video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/pJqWscqHm9y3oLw.htmlsi=7zoq5m7Z1kfgE7vH

I'm much in the same boat as you. One question I have for you, have you tried using fishnet base layer under a poly/wool second layer (that would normally be a base layer)? Seems to be better for the winter as a) it removes sweat from skin contact and b) is warmer since you creat air pockets at skin layer.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

7 ай бұрын

I haven't tried mesh yet but everyone keeps suggesting it. Guess I gotta bite the bullet...

@PHYSIZIST

7 ай бұрын

@@KaneDoesOutdoors yeah same. One chap (doing harsh sub zero conditions) on KZread has a video about how he wore a cotton(!) shirt over the fishnet as he wanted the actual wicking and once it passed all the layers his green outer shell became white with frost! It's funny as I had just watched your one year old video on fabrics and the misconceptions on them!

@shanelyon414

7 ай бұрын

My personal experience with a Wiggy's polyester fishnet base layer is that you're skin dries faster than with other base layer products. Only advantages I have found so far.

@PHYSIZIST

7 ай бұрын

@@shanelyon414 I think that was the biggest positive as the main idea is that you are using them with high energy actions causing lots of sweat in winter conditions

you said you only have 1 set of clothes? so your sleeping in your active clothes and just adding layers for warmth in camp and sleeping if needed? do your active clothes have enough time to dry out before going to bed or are you just managing how much your sweating while active? just curious do you a list of your gear on ligherpack or similar?

@KaneDoesOutdoors

5 ай бұрын

Yes just one set - I talk about my clothes in this video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/pJqWscqHm9y3oLw.html

I'm going to have to drive to Canada to get the Simond jacket. They won't sell it in the states.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

That's a lotta work for a jacket :)

Great video. I have a some observations: 1. You said you don’t bring any other clothes than what you have on.. that seems a bit dangerous. What happens if you get drenched? You mentioned you hope it didn’t rain. Let’s say it did. Something happened to your tent. You need to go out and re-stake it. Whatever. Now what do you do? You don’t have dry clothes? 2. You’re kneeling in the snow with the pants that you might need to sleep in. Again, I’m not getting it. Obviously you’re doing something right but I’m kind of missing between the lines somewhere.. 🤔 3. It appears you have invested quite heavily ($$) to have the best system possible (for YOU). I don’t understand why someone of your caliber wouldn’t be wearing Merino wool instead of fleece. I understand the weight factor, but again, if you’re not packing extra clothes, and you have Merino wool, if you get wet, we both know that’s not an issue… Not being critical . Myself, I’m about a year and a half into to cold camping. Just serious questions I have and interested in your responses. 👍

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

Hi, I could almost dedicate an entire video to your questions! 1. I'd suggest you have a look at two of my videos: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fauNza-yqa6wgNo.html and kzread.info/dash/bejne/nmRps49poKupkcY.html The issue with brining lots of extra clothes is that once you change into dry clothes you're left with a pile of wet clothes that never dry and end up freezing in the winter. I would do that 20 years ago but learned to trust that fleece and merino will dry out if you just keep them on. 2. Touching cold dry snow doesn't immediately cause a problem, you're out in the winter so gotta get used to it. In the video I do have a small piece of foam under my knee. When I cook or take a break, I take out the foam and sit on that - It's a very important piece of gear: 15"x32" (3/8") evazote that weighs less than 2 oz. Often I pack a 20" x 60" (1/4") evazote. It's light (6-7 oz) but a bit bulky. The extra space is nice though. 3. I use a merino t-shirt and underwear but generally find it over rated. Grid fleece insulates really well, dries fast, is available in more size and design variations, and actually holds less moisture than merino. Most importantly I got sick of merino clothes accidentally getting into the drier and coming out fitting my 8 year old son. Fleece is just a very practical option from financial and performance perspectives. Never been a fan of shelling out big money on clothes since they can get ruined so easily in the field. Merino definitely works for stink control...

@dobrofool

6 ай бұрын

@@KaneDoesOutdoors Clothing.. Well you seem to be making that work out. By far the larger outdoor community has always highlighted that if your stuff gets wet, you’re in danger outside. Best general practice is to get out of your day clothes and into something dry before you go to bed. Specially, in below temperatures. Plus we never wanna get into our sleeping bag with any kind of wet clothing. So I’m just gonna leave that one alone. I’m going to check out your recommended videos. Thanks for the links. As far as kneeling in the snow, Snow is never dry. It’s wet all the time - I’m sort of chuckling. I kinda get what you’re saying. But yes, a foam pad. I wondered if you might had one there, I always keep a small one in my gear too. Indispensable 😎. I shouldn’t be laughing, but yeah, shrinking merino in the dryer would be a rude awakening. At this early stage of my outdoor adventures, I’m always looking for ways to keep the cost down. But not at the expense of my life obviously. I have experimenting with layering different types of synthetics myself. I’ve spent the past two years in my backyard practicing wild camping and some Bushcraft skills. I finally got out to do a real trip this past summer (after 1-1/2 years) for three nights and four days. For the most part, I wanna say I was pretty well prepared. It was a great experience. This year I’m going to focus more on the cold camping, more specifically hot tent, camping. But I did my fair share of camping out last winter. The lowest I slept was I believe 25°F. A couple of nights I had to bail. I successfully made it on a third try. So it’s coming along. This is the first time you popped up on my feed, so I’m always interested to hear what others have to say about this topic. Thanks for the responses. Stay safe and Merry Christmas/Happy New Year!

Nice, but how much weight are you carrying in clothes, etc that isn’t in the 6.5 lb base weight?

@KaneDoesOutdoors

7 ай бұрын

Sleep system is

@RC-qf3mp

7 ай бұрын

@@KaneDoesOutdoors cool… I haven’t gotten to the end! 😬

Why people bring Nulgene bottles why not simply smart water bottle?

@qasd48

6 ай бұрын

2 reasons maybe that I can think of. 1. Could be that the wide mouth opening is much easier to pour into. Or 2. If you have the stainless steel one you can boil water directly in it I think.

@KaneDoesOutdoors

6 ай бұрын

Pretty long list of reasons. I use Smartwater/soda bottles in the summer but wouldn't rely on them in the winter. Caps are small and white (hard to see in snow when you drop them in snow), durability for boiling water, small opening is hard to pour into and will freeze up quickly, no size specific insulation available.

So, you just sit at what it seems from snow sound like at least -15c, in thin decathlon softshell gloves, not even mittens, and preach how stupid people are bringing extra stuff? I would lose any feeling at that temp in like less than 10 minutes, not just in tips, but up to 3rd phalanx when static, with soon to be frostbite if not attended by at least decathlon makalu down mittens, better with chem warmer. I wish i would've been yeti too.