Out-of-phase rules aren't that you can only use one rule. It's simply you can't use any rule that is only activated in a specific phase. Acting "as if X phase" isn't the same as "it is X phase". If that was the case it would mean things like Rapid ingress and overwatch suddenly slot in extra phases in the other players turn. Also, the points in the codex are outdated. Only for the completely new stuff can we kinda consider them as guidelines but most probably overcosted by quite a bit going from how they've point costed Lion and DWK.

@b.e.m.d

3 ай бұрын

Thank you very much for your comment and thank you for watching the video! I see your point! Though, like I said, Deathwing Assault affects the Mission Rules that prevent you to bring units from Reserves in turn one, now if we follow the Mission Rules we can't use Rapid Ingress in turn one because by those rules units can't come from Reserves in that turn, since Rapid Ingress states "You cannot use this Stratagem to enable a unit to arrive on the battlefield during a battle round it would not normally be able to do so in." and regularly indeed if you are using Leviathan Mission Rules you can't use Deep Strike in turn one, but with Deathwing Assault you can because it bypasses the Mission Rules restriction, nothing more, it is as if you are not using Leviathan Mission Rules at all, as if you are playing the Only War mission from the Core Rules pdf file, where there is no restriction on when you can bring units from Reserves. With Deathwing Assault my unit can normally arrive by Deep Strike in turn one, that is all that Deathwing Assault does, it lifts the restriction from the Mission Rules, nothing more. But like I said, I can see both sides of the argument, both those who say that it can be used and those that say that it can't. Overcosted indeed, though I can't really consider them as outdated since once the codex arrives the point costs from the index will be the outdated ones, and unless Games Workshop releases an errata the very same day we'll have to use the points from the codex until they change them, only when they do change the points with a new batch of points we can consider them outdated.

@eldoriath1

3 ай бұрын

​@@b.e.m.d Yes, Deathwing assault (DWA) gives you a special rule that is active in your first movement phase that allows you to arrive in your first turn. As you say, you are not allowed to arrive turn one normally. When rapid ingress is used out-of-phase rules apply, so no using special rules. Since we aren't allowed to use special rules it means we can't use DWA with rapid ingress turn one since it basically means the rules doesn't exist. To view it another way: DWA is a rule that only exist during your first reinforcement phase. Outside that phase it doesn't exist and you are bound to the normal rules for reserves. All out-of-phase rules follow the same principle: The rule only exist in that specific phase but doesn't exist otherwise. So when it's the enemy movement phase and you want to rapid ingress you check if the unit is normally allowed to arrive that turn, and since it's turn 1 that's a no. This is irrelevant of what it's allowed to do in it's own movement phase. DWA don't make you normally allowed to arrive turn one, it makes an exception to be allowed to arrive in your first reinforcement phase. Same as for drop pods and other units with similar rules. There are some exceptions though, for example the ravenwing that count the battleround as one higher than it actually is. That rule isn't locked to a specific phase and is always active, and thus it allows you to rapid ingress since you normally can do so turn 2, which the unit count the battleround as in turn 1. Meteoric descent also has another wording, saying it can be used when the unit is set-up using the deepstrike rules. Something you can do in your own turn as well as in the enemy turn with rapid ingress. Well, a reasonable basis would be that codex points would be identical as index points for units that has had little to no change. And the hope was some tweaks for units that got nerfed, but apparently not...

@b.e.m.d

3 ай бұрын

@@eldoriath1 This is such a well put explanation, thank you very much for it and for the time you took to write it! Yeah the recent update on the points from yesterday was, disappointing...

@eldoriath1

3 ай бұрын

​@@b.e.m.d I'm glad if it helped you, and believe you me when I tell you I really tried to argue that DWA would be able to rapid ingress turn one due to a slight change in the rules commentary. But alas, that change only pertains to strategic reserves, which DWA is not since it's using deep strike and thus is "only" a reserves unit. And I totally get the confusion of the wording of "can do this if it would normally be allowed to arrive this turn". It's quite poorly worded, or perhaps DWA is poorly worded and would have needed an added "can't rapid ingress turn one". Kinda like the added clarification they did for hell blasters shooting on death.

@Optionvideo209

3 ай бұрын

They suck more than they should either way and if I don't get 3 damage and if I can't run 10 man's I will definitely try to rapid ingress anyway. How many nerfs is enough? Geesus man

look how they massacred my primarch

@b.e.m.d

3 ай бұрын

Thank you very much for the comment! Aye, I was hoping for an update that will fix him, sadly yesterday's update was disappointing...