There seems to be some misunderstandings relating to my suggested fixes, so I'll try to clear things up as best as I can. The suggested change to AP belts is not a net nerf or buff to SPAA, as I said it would depend on case by case examination. For AA vehicles like the SIDAM, it would be a buff. But for vehicles like the Lvkv 42, it would be a nerf. The same goes for spawn point costs. Obviously some vehicles like the M163 will never be effective against tanks no matter what, so they could retain SPAA spawn point costs. Only SPAA vehicles easily capable of racking up multiple tank kills would receive light tank spawn point costs. And regarding planes, you guys should be very well aware of the fact that I think CAS is heavily unbalanced in WT. On SPAA vehicles with limited AP belts, I feel more inclined to actually scan the sky for enemy aircraft, instead of trying to shoot as many tanks as I can. As others in the comments have suggested, I would increase the rewards given for shooting down a plane as well, though rewards should be increased across the board.

@NinjaAgnostic

2 жыл бұрын

That makes a lot of sense from the reward perspective, but I think a large amount of frustration from the community is that SPAA doesn't provide reliable counterplay against CAS. My guess is that people would be fine with CAS staying as it is if there were some viable options for ground players that haven't grinded through their air trees as well. Mid tier is especially problematic in this area. Like the british had 40mm variable timed fuses during WWII, but they were never self propelled. So the options for "anti-air" feel very weak for their intended role generally speaking. Do you think there are any viable options for balance that don't resort to spawn point/ammo modifications?

@misaka-mikoto

2 жыл бұрын

Yea I Agree, Also wished to see the game on Japan where you Track Barrel bulled me on C Point

@simethigsomethingidfk

2 жыл бұрын

"M163 will never be effective against tanks" Maybe if you ignore its matchup against germany at that tier. It completely shreads leos from any direction. I have had multiple games on city maps with it that I have gotten 6+ kills... Sure the Bradley is better in every way and alot more effective but still

@leonardo2a935

2 жыл бұрын

From my experience in high BR, it's hard to kill a Ka-50 because they are 10 km away sending misiles XD._.

@zauniblanke1588

2 жыл бұрын

Less CAS or more precisely less planes (that's what your suggested change would probably result in as I understand) would be a reason for players to play AA even more rarely (the 'weak' type that is only effective against planes). So the now more rarely spawned planes would face less opposition in form of AA as they are also spawned in more rarely. A reaction and a way to resolve this quite complicated issue is to 'tax' not the needed planes spawnpoints, but to increase the spawnpoints for specific loadouts. This is done Ingame, but in my opinion not strict enough or not expensive enough.

SPAA is tough, many lower tier vehicles use slow firing 30-40mm guns which are nearly impossible to hit fast moving aircraft with. IRL these types of SPAA were used in numbers and weren't meant to go 1v1 with an aircraft.

@TheoHawk316

2 жыл бұрын

The 37 mm anti air American is an effective tank killer in realistic, it shouldn't be that way.

@strategicperson95

2 жыл бұрын

Tell me about it, unless your SPAA has 3-4 gun configuration even in rapid fire 20-30mm, you can actually run into fighter jocks that can literally dance around your rounds and still kill despite diving at you. Many of these culprits being in 190s and 109s funnily enough.

@Shrekfromthehitmovieshrek

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheoHawk316 well if it has the penatration it should be that way

@grikkajunior

2 жыл бұрын

@@strategicperson95 because when you try you run into twelve walls of 20 and 30mm from the five wirbelwind in their spawn

@Matt85ism

2 жыл бұрын

@@Shrekfromthehitmovieshrek IRL they would only fight armor or even infantry in truly desperate last-ditch defense situations. Normal people aren't suicidal and would never willingly attempt to take on an armored vehicle with an SPAA with no protection. The exception to this rule would be batteries of the 88mm guns the Germans pressed into anti-tank roles but even these were more emergency measures than planned attacks (which is why they eventually stuffed an 88mm gun in a tank).

To me the reasons why the AA player care much more to kill tanks than plane is that shooting a plane give you almost nothing in SL, in a game I shoot down 6 plane *6*, and still the game gave me less silver lion than destroing a couple of tanks

@twentylush

2 жыл бұрын

You could down an entire swarm of enemy CAS spam but die and still end up net negative on SL if your team sucks, and the RP gain is so insignificant now across all roles anyways you might as well not even consider it. IMO the gameplay of AA isn't that big of a deal, just mostly what goes on before(ammo types, spawn cost) and after(SL gain/loss, victory/defeat) the match like you said

@elliotsmith102

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, I love using SPAA as SPAA but it simply isn’t profitable or sustainable at all…

@fenfrostpaws2000

2 жыл бұрын

I enjoy using my Eurobus solely because I hate Ka-50s

@hhale

2 жыл бұрын

@@elliotsmith102 Sort of like bombers in air battles.

@elliotsmith102

2 жыл бұрын

@@hhale Ye

This is completely without mention of the other side, by the way. There is 0 fun about a rapid-fire peashooter with tissue paper skin taking out your gun barrel, knocking out a track, then leaving you sitting there helpless watching a timer get bigger and bigger as it circles you, picking at parts or crew over and over, probably repeatedly causing an engine fire until your extinguish runs out or otherwise chipping you to death. And then they immediately get blasted by your heavy tank teammate that got lost and circled back around, only just noticing them after you spent the whole time spamming marks and calling for assistance.

@MetalX34

2 жыл бұрын

i think the same but in general. many of these balance discussions have the same naive base of work to make assessments, namely “can i beat or not” or “is is blatantly more effective than average”. too bad, but players can still beat the thing fine yet call it complete rubbish to face gameplay-wise. although tbf, that would be disingenuous to say spook never tried to go further than that. as for whether spaags are fundamentally cringeworthy or not, it eventually depends on what you expect from the tank game. i totally agree having ez auto guns in a game mainly about single shot cannons sounds tasteless but some can deal with that fine, regardless of which end of the barrel they are on.

@Rafael_Fuchs

2 жыл бұрын

I generally wouldn't say that's an issue. The number of times I've faced that situation, I could count on one hand. SPAA isn't something I even see much of once I move away from the spawns. The only ones I've ever seen on a semi-regular basis away from their spawns are the ZSU 57, Tunguska, Otomatic, Wirbelwind/Ostwind, ADATS, R3, and 9040. The rest I'd be lucky to see once every couple play season, which is usually a few hours at a time. Aside from that, .50 cals are usually more than enough to deal with them, even when they knock your gun out.

@InsertEvilLaugh

2 жыл бұрын

First game in my Tiger H1, got onto the top of a hill, knocked out a KV-1 and a T-34, was feeling pretty good. Then a pizza delivery boy (R3) ran by, farted at my barrel and broke it, like 6 rounds and it was burst, and couldn't turn quick enough to shoot with my coax. He then just zipped around me dumping rounds wherever he could until he set me on fire over and over and killed me.

@siko9799

2 жыл бұрын

@@InsertEvilLaugh sounds like a load of bs to me because the r3 doesn’t have enough penetration to go through a tigers armor anywhere.

@_Zekken

2 жыл бұрын

It needs to be fun to play, and it also needs to be fun to play AGAINST. Gaijin is struggling with the second part a lot at the moment.

The whole point of SPAAs is that they have much cheaper SP in realistic battles than all other vehicle types. This is to give players an opportunity to spawn in another ground vehicle if they've had bad luck in their first couple vehicles and to encourage a balanced and varied team composition.

@Aahmpower

2 жыл бұрын

That actually happened to me like a month or two ago, Frozen map, i had a pretty bad day with the vehicles, so i spawned the Chinese 2.3 AA, i think i killed 4 and the only thing that stopped me from killing another one was the enemy team pushing to our spawn

@sachenhausen

2 жыл бұрын

you're talking about the russian mains who's suck at top tier if they're lucky, they spawn in ka-52, either they spawn in tunguska

@gafeleon9032

2 жыл бұрын

The cheapness also helps balance CAS, even if the team is doing poorly and can't afford fighters you can still be sure there's something able to deal with the enemy planes

@alexhohl8530

2 жыл бұрын

@@gafeleon9032 the problem is that there is hardly any counter play against a skilled spaa driver

@roomyhaddock3245

2 жыл бұрын

@@gafeleon9032 Absolutely, though unfortunately not very many players spawn as SPAAG's or have them in their loadout, so very often after my first death, I spawn as AA if there's planes flying around

After playing the Wisel 1A a bunch, having an AA that can scout and repair makes it MUCH better to run.

@oseansoldier

2 жыл бұрын

I’m not sure about scouting, but I am a firm believer that AA should be able to help repair.

@distinctjackal9016

2 жыл бұрын

Imagine a r3 with these capabilities

@Sandy-bu3ws

2 жыл бұрын

Wait wisel can scout?? Madness

@AndyViant

2 жыл бұрын

AA's need scout

@lynx3873

2 жыл бұрын

@@Sandy-bu3ws the Roland can scout too

To anyone who says AA is OP against planes at top tier, yes. Planes are also OP against tanks at toptier. So they need to be OP

@VIT-ey8wo

2 жыл бұрын

To be fair, the real problem hides in the absurdly low spawn cost of missile SPAA's. They really shouldn't cost so low.

@quartzlandaker5664

2 жыл бұрын

Planes should have much more long range weapons and only up to 8-12 of them to be equal to the SPAA they face

@quartzlandaker5664

2 жыл бұрын

@@VIT-ey8wo They should, play the ADATS by the time you need it you don't have 500 SP for it

@MoonMoon-uy2ph

2 жыл бұрын

The issue though is getting hit by a laser guided missile ten seconds after spawn

@inkkari6603

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoonMoon-uy2ph simple, go fly planes in air rb. Its stupid to cry over how op or cheap it is to use radar spaa when there are jets and helis that can kill tanks from 8-12km away with ease. I mainly play radar spaa (2s6, ito and adats) and it always makes me smile when ppl cry about how broken aa is in top tier

Falcon actually got more potent when they moved it to 8.0. Faces more light and mediums which it can pen frontally. At 7.7 it faced more tigers which it could only barrel and track

one step in the right direction would be to allow people to switch vehicles in spawn, i.e. 1st spawn SPAA do your thing, J out in Spawn without actually losing the vehicle then spawning in a tank. also remove the kill cam or stunt it in RB i.e. only show what type of shell and where it penetrated not where the shooting tank was.

@agentmonde1

2 жыл бұрын

Finally someone said it, I hated that fucking kill cam!!!

@fladoodledooper

2 жыл бұрын

I agree a game about positioning should not have a kill cam, revenge killing in cas would not be as large a problem with its removal aswell since they'd have to actually look to find you

@stfvoyager6269

2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree

@ozoahameg3582

2 жыл бұрын

man i highly agree i know that cheaters get cought using the kill cam but come on replay is available and you can use it to see if the guy who killed you is actually cheating the killcam easily shows the location of a cheeky sniper or a good flank making your hiding spot useless after the 1st few kills (like come on i work so hard to keep my location secret and a game feature instantly make me a target for CAS revenge kill) this is one of the few reasons why when i play light tank or even any tank and went into a full flank or hide on a good camp location i usually just disable the enemy by engine or shooting the breach avoiding the kill so no kill cam will show and just wait like an idiot for ally to take the kill

@agentmonde1

2 жыл бұрын

@@ozoahameg3582 😂😂😂😂 it's true you'd rather let someone else take the W then take the L

From my experience I think how well an AA does depends on your skills and how good is your team and if the enemy team leave their flanks wide open

@endybear3750

2 жыл бұрын

couldnt agree more as i use spaas alot and guess wat i do, flank, attack weak points, and having knowledge. i dont see aa having ap rounds a problem but a limiter would be reasonable.

@randomkingdom8723

2 жыл бұрын

@@endybear3750 I agree specially in low tier where spaas are op and experienced players always use them to wipe the enemy team

@YDDERP

2 жыл бұрын

too many people neglect the skill gap in this game. They bitch about how OP something can be while not recognizing many things. The tank driver may be good at the game nd knows where to shoot and how to flank. And that the enemy team is a bunch of monkies and don't help their teammates when they are being shot. Most SPAA can be machine gunned and if you angle your tank at all they become useless.

@randomkingdom8723

2 жыл бұрын

@@YDDERP yeah most of them just call you toxic for using AA and not that they were tunnel visioned and didn't hear you flanking them

@YDDERP

2 жыл бұрын

@@randomkingdom8723 too true game sense in WT is way more important than aim or spaded tanks

Hitting a plane is hard. I see why players use the vs tanks. The saying “The best armor is no armor “ comes to mind. You are more successful attacking tanks vs planes.

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

Also sometimes there is just no planes to shot at.

I'm surprised you don't go into how mouse aim makes SPAAs at low and mid tiers especially frustrating, thanks to mouse aim a plane can engage and destroy an SPAA from far away or from suicidal angles, some spaas are near useless because any plane with a machine gun can take them out just by looking at them. As for the shell limit, bring it to everys tank or create a dynamic br system based on the ammo you use, to take an extreme example, the german short 75 performance is widly different depending on if you sling aphe or late war HEAT.

@stig2704

2 жыл бұрын

Tell me about it, both the Challenger and Comet are hopeless in a fight at their BR, but once you get APDS you can punch through almost anything.

@eliasihalainen2572

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I love how in aicraft vs SPAA engagements the aircraft usually ends up winning (atleast in low and mid tiers). There is nothing to help the SPAA aim at the plane, and the plane can just pull a few simple manouveres and make it nearly impossible for the spaa to hit it, while it can dive at the spaa and destroy it in one burst. There is also big varience in the effectiveness of spaa depending on the country, just like there is with any other vehicles.

@0Ploxx

2 жыл бұрын

If you can’t aim 4 20mils then it’s your own fault that a bomb got dropped on you cope and seethe

@zarlev9083

2 жыл бұрын

@@0Ploxx Bruh, ewery sane person in community realized it that aircraft allready has advantage ower SPAA, what are you even talking about? thats your coping, tanks movements to prevent damage and planes movements to avoid AA are completly bonkers unfair as well, thats what people are also mentioning, a plane have a lot more manuver options while trying to engage, an SPAA in most cases even has to stop to counter it and most cases even the better SPAA pilot will fail if the pilot knows even a little bit about how to avoid AA fire, you are the clueless coping one, and thats literally not mentioning the CAS effect on gameplay as a whole while you defend the whole thing? thank god i stopped playing WT when braindead arguments like that are still in community.

@strategicperson95

2 жыл бұрын

@@0Ploxx Germany is not one suffering from this, it's other nations like, USA, UK, and Soviets that suffer the most because they either have poor rate of fire, poor turret traverses, and crew more exposed than their German counterparts like the 40mm and ZSU-37. Which is why even at 4.0-6.7 br they would rather take the lower tier faster rate SPAA like the quad 50s, Crusader MK2 SPAA, and the twin 25mm truck. A single 7 mm bullet in the engine cowling should ruin any aircrafts days. But the worst is when you do shoot them down but they still get their intended targets despite your effort.

I firmly believe HVAP and APDS rounds should be removed from AA or at most be given 1-2 "defensive" belts. Not full 600 rnd belts, but 20-40 rounds depending on the weapon system.

@fenfrostpaws2000

2 жыл бұрын

So basically what the Gepard has already lol

I would give AAs higher rp and sl rewards for destroying planes and helis, and lower rewards for destroying ground units, as well as lowering the amount of ap ammo belts they can carry, this might make AAs spending more time looking at the sky, and using the ap belts only for self defense or a desperate retaliation, like the sidam.

@DontusemypasswordGoogle

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah it's kind of silly that shooting down an aircraft something that tends to be harder than killing some tanks is worth less

@ServalShots

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly I agree with this. I should be getting rewards like god mode if I use a m16 and shoot down a jet. It's silly that I don't earn more money because I shot down a plane. Shooting down planes is extremely difficult and I should be awarded more for doing so.

Since we are on topic of AA, I wanna add this as a Naval player: In Naval battles, AA is super annoying. Both to fight against, or to use in defense. Small boats can be quite annoying to fight against while in a aircraft because the way the tree is. What I mean by that is that your in a Mid war plane, fighting a late Korean war PT boat. Extremely high rates of fire make it quite impossable to even be in the area of a PT boat. Then there is ship board AA, god they piss me off so much. The fact is, Naval shipboard AA has a bad habit of being the legit idea of a sniper. What I mean by that is this: Naval AA somehow is able to snipe a plane from two miles (3 Kilometers) out that is actively attempting to avoid incoming fire while flying away with only two guns able to bare. But when an Aircraft is closing right at 1,000 (Feet or meters, but you get the idea), on a attack run, and closing within your "AA" belt, (The direction where most of the guns can see) They are unable to hit it. Even if the plane straightens out to line up a torpedo. And i'm not saying this cause i'm upset cause "their AA are super good", or "my AA can't shoot anyone down" No, I have on more than few times left my AA guns on Aircraft mode, and they snipe a plane that wasn't even marked for me, or been able to avoid 3 bluewater ships AA fire to drop a torpedo and sink one, dispite taking 3 seconds to line up the shot. And I still got away undamaged. Honestly, it needs to be flipped. They should be more accuate close range to protect you, and worse at longer ranges. This would make weapons like the Tiny Tim actually useful, cause then you could damage a ship effectively.

@justarandomtechpriest1578

2 жыл бұрын

The are no post ww2 boats in any tree

@kim_haewon5309

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. Though i rarely play naval since the latest update in which Gaijin completely effed up the aiming system. I wish they put in a switch to turn that shit off and be able to use the old system without the green indicators again

@PineCone227_

2 жыл бұрын

@@justarandomtechpriest1578 Are you serious? USS Mitscher (1954) USS Pittsburgh (1951 refit) JDS Yugure (1960 refit) USS Tucumcari (1968) USS Asheville (1967) PT-810 (1948) Albatros (1976)

@demete1230

2 жыл бұрын

@@kim_haewon5309 Out of curiosity, what do you dislike about the new aiming system? Personally I think it's more intuitive than before, and ranging is definitely easier, but I have to agree that the shell landing indicator is both inconsistent and not really useful

@kim_haewon5309

2 жыл бұрын

@@demete1230 To me, ranging became harder. First of all, rangefinding is ultra slow. I agree that it should not be a click of X (or whatev button do ppl use), but its hella slow. Not to mention its not even closely accuraet. I move mouse upward, it doesnt stop but keeps calculating 0.5-3 km over the ship. I move mouse down to correct, now its 2 km before ship. Second, I used to measure lead with the clearly visible upward sticks in aim view. Now its dots and way more of them, harder to distinct quickly. Third, the sharp green circle and triangles are simply distracting. I used to watch where my shells land. Before ship: move mouse upwards. After ship: downwards. And it didnt keep moving after i stopped mouse. Shels land behind or in front of ship? Correct to opposite direction. To sum up: it became way harder for me.

The real problem is one nation in particular can shit on everyone else's spaa until radar spaa, and huge gaps in effectiveness

@kommandantkillcode

2 жыл бұрын

Germany?

@Abizinator

2 жыл бұрын

@@kommandantkillcode Yeah I'd guess so, since funnily enough the nation that faced the most CAS attacks developed the best standalone SPAA.

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

Now what I find funniest about that is that the country with the best AAs also happens to have some of the best planes.

@jonathanallen3688

2 жыл бұрын

@@Abizinator the thing is tho for US and UK they at least have some that could be added they could compete. Skink or there's a chafee with six .50s.

@Abizinator

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanallen3688 Definitely, I'm honestly surprised they haven't been added already.

I think the core issue is that SPAA players that can effectively shoot down planes are rare. Even in low BR when planes are slower it takes a lot of practice to be effective. After low BR, planes are just too fast to be able to shoot down unless you're a god. There is a huge gap between the BR when planes that are basically too fast to defend against start being available and the BR when SPAA with radar become available. IMO they really should have a crew skill that gives you aiming assist like in arcade or like you have with radar. The better your crew is and the closer the plane, the more accurate the assist is (obviously more so with radar). This would actually give a real hard counter to CAS, in much the same way that 90% of CAS is a hard counter to tanks. Currently, I have a hard time finding an actual justification for SPAA to exist in most BR's beyond being tank-destroyers since the skill gap between being able to CAS someone and being able to SPAA a plane is so large. About the only time SPAA is useful is when a plane is charging you head-on, and if you're in an open-top with thin armor (as most SPAA are) even if you land every single shot and kill the guy you still have about a 50% chance of being killed because in the time it takes your shots to hit, the CAS has usually fired their own barrage at you as well. TL;DR, an effective SPAA player has to be very skilled to shoot down planes after the first few BR's when they start to get pretty fast. An effective CAS player can have much less skill and still be effective. This is the core issue with SPAA. If my options are between wasting a quarter of my ammo trying to shoot down a dive bomber and then getting easily destroyed because I'm an open-top, vs going out with an automatic 40mm that can pen 72mm of armor at 2.0, I know what I'm going to to be doing...

What if they implemented a system where AP and other dual purpose munitions increase the spawn cost like how some aircraft have varied costs if you choose to bring certain ordinance? This is also a fine line because it could lead to situations where a vehicle is simultaneously too cheap to bring poorly armed and too expensive if you want it to fight more targets

I still think we need to get proper SPAA sights before they mess with anything. A lot of "terrible' higher caliber SPAA would be a lot better and more practical to use if we had the sights for the job they are supposed to be doing.

Wake up babe, Spookston just uploaded..

You forgot to mention the huge BR gap in the SPAA line of every tech tree. and some get to higher BR because they kill tanks but perform badly against aircraft.

I was an M1 Abrams tanker in the US Army. The reality and potential of running into AA platforms like the Tunguska or similar was not only a possibility but something you wouldnt want to deal with in open combat. The shells might not punch through the armor, but they would absolutely damage or possibly disable the tank to the point that its immobilized and completely broken. I think war thunders depiction is semi accurate for what an outcome of that fight would be if an AA platform had the drop on tanks from the same era and previous generations. I think a lot of people misunderstand what they are seeing when their tanks are destroyed in game. In a real scenario youd likely have many disabled and broken tanks littering the battle fields. Not all will explode or burst into flames. The animation that happens allows others to know your tank is dead and no longer in play. This makes for a better game, but is a bit unrealistic. If you want realism, get a simulator. A competitive game that isnt designed for full realism will make it known who is still in the game. If your tank is disabled, it goes boom. Not that it would happen in real life. Many also think AA is the same as pointing machine guns into the sky. They actually have I higher velocity and thus carry more energy. People assume to know ballistics but have no idea about it. Any modern tank would likely survive a burst from a tunguska, however it would be severely damaged and incapable of defending itself. But that's why tanks move in groups. Any time you see video of a single tank I can tell you what parts of the world it is in and promise you its operated by people who might know how to operate it okay but have little to no formal training on that tank and have never learned tactics. Those videos come from the middle east and a lone tank is a dead tank. It's rare to see a tank all by itself unless the people think that because they have a tank they are mighty. I can damage, defeat, or possibly destroy any modern tank in the world with $20US in gasoline, bottles, and cheap rags. People are sour because they believe that a tank shouldn't get taken out by a 23mm or 30mm cannon but fail to understand that french tanks were tough as nails when Germany invaded during WWII. They were a bit slow and vastly outnumbered by the weaker armed but faster german tanks. The Tiger wasnt even a factor in the early war. I'm pretty sure they entered service shortly after France fell.

@bisky9105

2 жыл бұрын

A small correction to the last point The tiger entered production after the germans encountered T-34's and KV-1's during barbarossa. It entered Service ~2 years after france

@marcinmaj848

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah. But still. Thinking about any modern/modernized MBT with some 3layers of types of passive,non-reacting, reacting armor and then Active Protection System - no matter it's a hard-kill or soft-kill or just some very effective laser and accustic warning system that makes a smoke or a screen cover poof-poof under 1second... If you are not aiming wth multiple of the latest Milan, Spike, Javelin. Kornets or some rockets barrage from a gunships like AH. Cobra, Tiger, MI-24... or a fcuking rocket launching frigate Then you are commitying sucide.. Modern tank is a SUICIDE FOR LIGHT INFANTRY or even less armed APCs

@Deathbomb9

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcinmaj848 I can disable, damage to the point of being out of the fight, or even destroy any modern or past MBT or tank with $20 of gasoline, some glass bottles, and cheap rags. If you're on foot you dont assault a tank, it's not a WWII movie. It takes a different tactic is all. I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, but I'm also in a different place of understanding the realities. Damage the main gun, and you've muzzled the beast in a way. You would still have to deal with the crew serves mounted to it. Also, I think you're missing my main point about the real dangers of facing an AA platform in a tank if they have the drop on you. They would give a tank a lot to think about before sticking its nose back out of cover. Mind you this is a one on one fight. In a real war you would have tanks and similar vehicles out front because your AAA is more valuable and more effective a little further behind the frontlines.

@Deathbomb9

2 жыл бұрын

@@bisky9105 you are correct. I love tank history and I was wanting to finish the thought and close out my comment before I got sidetracked haha. But yes, it was after barbarossa when the tigers entered production.

@marcinmaj848

2 жыл бұрын

@@Deathbomb9 You are delusional! Gasoline in bottles and rags? HAHAHAHAHAHA... External fuel tank explosion would be barely noticeable by the crew of the modern tank! Barely! Genting to the flank of MBT with 20t armed 8x8 APC is a suicide, and it's the only place you can effectively use 30mm autocannon to punch a hole in rear side plates. For anything made post-2000 even this is IMPOSSIBLE! SUICIDE! That's all. Keep living in the WW2 era. Even back then it was not easy at all.

If CAS wasn’t so pervasive I think you’d have less of a hard time balancing SPAAs. The fact that getting a lot of kills or caps is required to spawn in most aircraft means that it leads to snowballing, which needless to say isn’t good for gameplay. I think I prefer matches with only 10 people per side, because it’s harder to get enough spawn points to get an attacker, and the loss of one ground vehicle in exchange for CAS is more expensive for a given team, and you wouldn’t have as many of them. The worst thing is when you’re in an SPAA and there’s 4 different aircraft up there and you’re shooting at one only to get blitzed by another. Also prevent them dropping massive bombs in the middle of spawn, please.

@JustAnotherRandomPersonOnline

2 жыл бұрын

I am on the opposite side of that, I would love to see more players per match (and then you could have even bigger maps then we have now and have about the same amount of action).

@justarandomtechpriest1578

2 жыл бұрын

@@JustAnotherRandomPersonOnline or we could just have bigger maps and make the rest of the player base happy for a sniping/long range/mixed map

@rjcoady21

2 жыл бұрын

There is also a lot of people that get enough rp just to get an air spawn and J out. I always try my best in my first spawn and then resort to aircraft. I'm also the douchebag that shoots down aircraft in AAA.

@JustAnotherRandomPersonOnline

2 жыл бұрын

@@rjcoady21 That's not being a douche bag, that's just smart.

If it were up to me, to balance SPAA i would start by making them like planes in the sense that if you put AP belts on them, spawn costs increase by a lot. so if you bring standard 2 ap 2 HE belt or 3 ap 1 he with same pen as normal rounds then it costs normal SP to spawn, around 70-100, but when you bring higher pen ammo or APDS belts then it should go up to 200-250, but you should be able to bring as much as you want. this way if the spaa will be used as a tank destroyer, it will cost more than one to make up for the increased performance it is given at a lower BR. this would also encourage players to use it for their intended role, shooting down aircraft. another alternative would be to just straight up remove APDS belts from them. And i agree with your statement about some vehicles being designated as SPAA but not really built for that role, like zsu-57-2 and wiesel 1a4 and the swedish m113 with anti air missiles.

@lunatic_nebula9542

2 жыл бұрын

i like your idea if a belt has more ap shells it's cost goes up but tracer, incendiary should also have its own thing , like He>inc>Tracer also for combied bullet it would be both of those bullets combined and the 10% of that combined.

@SteveIsHavingMC

2 жыл бұрын

@@lunatic_nebula9542 thats too complex and most spaa dont even have that much variability. there is also no need to go past a simple distinction between AP and non ap belts like i described.

@bisky9105

2 жыл бұрын

What about tanks like the gepard, that can carry 40apds rounds (20 for each gun)? Having the sp be more then double for a very, very limited amount of capabilities against enemy amor seems problematic too. This 40 rounds were used in a emergencys and that's the only thing you can do with them in wt too. Use them if you emcounter enemy amor (if someone pushes your location or you see them when you advance with your team)

@SteveIsHavingMC

2 жыл бұрын

@@bisky9105 well it keeps that and keeps normal point costs since 40 apds rounds really isnt that many, but its special because it has a hard cap while things like the falcon get one belt of 600 rounds of 110mm pen apds, which is complete bullshit balance wise, same with the veak 40. all the spaa limited to 40 rounds of apds may seem fine and all to you until you realise that both the yenisei and the shilka of the russian tree dont get any APDS rounds, but the yenisei is lucky in that it doesnt really need it, although its rounds arent exactly reliable as i have found out from personal experience. this suggestion mostly had things like the falcon, most swedish spaa and most french spaa in mind (would be surprising if sweden didnt make it into a nerf list considering their entire tree should be moved 1.0 BR's up)

@seemslegit6203

2 жыл бұрын

@Bisky tanks like that wouldn't need to be touched, in fact, the gepard/type 87 setup is perfect. Its an SPAA with a limited amount of good AP intended for ground self defence situations.

I mostly agree with the video, however one thing that wasn't mentioned, is that AAs mostly aren't that great at anti air, especially in RB. Lower caliber AA often doesn't do a lot of damage and while 40mm cannons usually shred the plane in a single hit, they are incredibly hard to hit with due to the low volume of fire. Unless the plane is coming straight at me, I rarely ever hit planes. Not only that, but given how lightly armoured they are, planes can take them out incredibly easily, so AAs are often a better matchup against light or medium tanks than against planes.

@strategicperson95

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, pretty much every 40mm Bofors SPAA is now sitting below 4.0 br, especially the M42 and M19 because they are too easy to kill from literally anything: bombs, guns, rockets. They also don't just have slow firing guns, they also have slow turret traverses which makes even tracking aircraft hard; especially the kind of aircraft they used to see at 5.0 and above. Yes watch as I try to follow an Me262 as he flies and strafes me in the same amount of time it took me to even point my guns in roughly the general direction he came from and is no longer there. And let's not forget trying to shoot down anything that flies above 2km altitude, coughPe-8cough.

@awacsrazgriz967

2 жыл бұрын

I maybe hit 2 planes in my entire time playin the m19 and m42 without them flying in a straight line and those tiers are my most play3d tiers.

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

I already mentioned this in another comment, but these shitty slow SPAAs are also supposed to carry you all the way from 4.7 to 8.0 which is frankly ridiculous.

@ServalShots

2 жыл бұрын

Any anti air will do just get better

The biggest issue with SPAA is more often, until you get to the higher tiers and start into radar, kinda trash for killing planes, and end up being better used as scout tanks with the ability to kill than trying to kill air. There are a lot of reasons, one major one you forgot is reload speed, as that is far more of a critical factor than any other thing. Having the near endless belts (the 0.3-1.0 second reloads or the ones with like 300 rounds) is really critical to really giving you a chance to kill planes, as you are going to take a lot of time to zero in as they are moving, because distance and direction are hard to tell due to your angle. Then round speed is next, as many of them are quite slow rounds and force you to aim so far ahead that you cant really see where your shots are roughly going, or if the plane is turning at all, which makes it entirely a guessing game. After that we have the fact most of them are open topped, and as such are very easily killed by aircraft, as if you lose your gunner, which can happen really easily and randomly, you are already dead as it takes too long to get the replacement for you to defend yourself. SPAA just have always kinda been trash for doing what they are supposed to, leading to this sort of contention, as the ones you see are the ones that are stupidly strong and can very easily kill tanks and also have the tools to kill planes in certain situations.

The issue goes hand-in-hand, with objectives and worthiness. People always go to spawn camp and kill tanks, because they get more RP and Money than objectives. As an AA Player, I don’t think they are an issue much till you see the 6.0 and up, the R3 and FP 341 being unique and a bit too good at what they do. The problem beings also with range. Where you have Helicopters sneaking kills from 8KM away, while most only have 5KM effectiveness till better missles. I don’t think all costs of AA should be increased, where as the multipurpose ones like Falcon, or ZA-35 can kill about anything. The Gepard is crippled by it’s AP ammo amount and has a rather nice feel to being a point defense; giving it incentive. even then those 40 rounds might not guarantee. The Roland AA I have played with are decent, and a good fighter or helicopter pilot CAN outmaneuver people. Just most pilots panic or aren’t aware, because the smart thing to do is shut off radar. The video was okay, but I feel like some issues were not left spoken of. You are correct about them being better than some TDs.

I wish I could spawn AA at base, fire at planes and if there was no planes J out and have it able to be spawned in later just more expensive. Also low tier AA is so utterly painful for new players to learn since they effectively have 0 idea where to aim and overall it's still difficult to lead a plane unless it's obvious driving right at you kinda deal. It's just odd how much easier it gets the higher tier you go, compared to low tier being thrown into the deep end and told to learn it. I've seen plenty of players abuse this, the "1 light tank and 5 planes" kind of line up and top score by a mile because newer players can't deal with it.

Rolling around in a ww2 relic getting yeeted by dive bombing jets isn't fun either.

See Gaijin's logic is instead of adjusting direct short-term impact numbers like Spawn Point cost, they will understand your feedback as "We understand, we will increase repair costs for certain SPAAs even higher."

I remember how painful the sidam25 was. Basically half a second of AP ammo and it costs like 25k to repair and no search radar

I think some SPAA need a buff to their actual AA and a nerf to their AT.. something like the Duster for example could be given fuse shells and remove the AP belt.

theres too many diferent types of AA to even place them in the same "tree" I hate grinding but "truly AA" without tank-killing potential should stay away in their own tree And "versatile AA" with AP rounds, heavy HE or auto-gun should have their own

@vizender

2 жыл бұрын

But if you go to higher tier, you’ll have AAs with high velocity. And high velocity means high penetration, enough to go through the side armor of most MBTs

@misschauffarde5112

2 жыл бұрын

Riiiiiiigh yeah nha look at Germany all of the AA Can be and are very good ar't killing tank

IMO an SPAA’s BR should change depending on whether or not you’re bringing good AP ammo with you. If you’re “maining” as a dedicated AA player and you load up on HE ammo, then the vehicle should be at a lower BR. This would partially alleviate the problem where some SPAAs are in high BR’s because they’re good tank killers, but are absolutely miserable at actually showing down aircraft (see; most things with the 40mm BOFORS). Or, for a simpler suggestion, just put more actual good mid tier AA vehicles in the game. Give France that AMX-13 with quad 20mm’s, give the USA that weird light tank armed with 6 .50 cals, and give the USSR a BTR-152 with quad 14.5mm MG’s. Oh and give Britain the skink.

You also forgot that some countries desperately need new AA vehicles to fill up the huge br gaps like Italy, France and to some extent the UK and Japan.

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

I do you one better. Every country except germany needs more mid tier AAs! Russia literally has an AA on 3.7 and then one on 7.0 that sucks at shooting down planes. Japan, China and USA all have the M42 duster at 5.0 and then another AA at 8.0 The swedish have the Lvkv 42 at 4.3 which is super similar to the french AMX-13 DMC, which means they both suck dick if you want to hit planes. They both get new AAs at 8.3 and 8.0 Italy is actually the only country where I dont see such a huge problem because out of all the tanks I listed the R3 T20 is definitely the best at shooting down planes. The british have just gotten the yestervark which is similar to the R3 but I'm not sure how good that thing is yet. So I got nothing to say there.

@tyrannicswinen117

2 жыл бұрын

@@a.b.3455 Sweden has 10 vehicles in its SPAA tree, Italy and France have half of that and Sweden was the most recent country to be added. France and Italy desperately need new AA vehicles since they have the biggest gaps in that tree

I like playing SPAA but there is a massive issue when it comes to being able to shoot down aircraft: before radar or similar lock-on, the skill floor is ridiculously high in comparison to the rest of the game at a given BR past something like 2.0. Most of the time it's also compounded by the vehicles themselves: no protection vs. any machine gun, slow firing (but powerful & that work vs. ground) cannon and nothing to actually aim with. Fighting planes that see in 3rd person, hear AA shots easily and can maneuver easily with mouse flight usually doesn't end well. An experienced pilot can also dunk on AA with such ease..

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

Yes theres also very poor indication on what you're doing wrong when you cant hit a plane.

the first step to balancing them would be pretty easy and it would make the game a lot better, limit planes, so you can only spawn 3 per match or smth AND increase sp req even more (i would love if they completelly removed planes from ground battles, but theyll never do that)

How about war thunders Air problem.

The big thing for actual anti-air is rate-of-fire. Especially as planes get faster and faster, your window for actually hitting an aircraft gets dramatically slimmer, so you need a higher ROF (either with a faster single gun, or having slower guns synchronized to each other) to more effectively hit the faster and more powerful aircraft. But, of course, faster ROF combined with larger shell calibers, increases the likelihood of the SPAA to be abused (see: the Wirbelwind). A thing that could help, might be in limiting the roles that can be spawned? Like, a team can only have x-amount of heavy tanks, x-amount of SPAA, x-amount of SPGs, x-amount of CAS, and then light and medium tanks can run around all they want. This is how we deal with the problem of OP weapons in Darkest Hour '44-45: keep them, in all their death-and-destruction glory, but limit the number of them available so they can't absolutely break the game.

@bighobo7745

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately limiting the vehicle type can easily lead to very few games being played at all; there was an (sim?) event once (I forget the details) where the German team only had a few Tiger Is per match AND it was chosen at the start of the match, but also facing its historical opponents (T-34-76, 75 Shermans etc.). The event quickly turned into players either getting to spawn in the Tiger or just leaving that match if not. In short: Most players have X tank they want to play and the rest are throwaways or decoration, if tank X cannot be played they'll probably just leave or wait until they can spawn that tank.

I just got out of argument with someone on reddit about anti-air not being good enough against planes if we had the same plane spawn system for GF AB as in naval arcade... The issue with mobile AAA is that it wasn't supposed to be so powerful and shred planes to pieces, but it was supposed to be a deterrent - you won't be strafing down on a group of tanks when something like AAA is shooting at you in real scenario, but who cares, that's just a game. So we got to a point where AAA has to be able to shred planes efficiently and because of that it also affects the play against tanks. If we had the GF RB made in a way that we have some players choosing to spawn in a single plane on airfield like in Air RB (have only single life) and others spawning in only tanks, this could work completely differently because the pilots wouldn't risk their planes so much for a single kill, because right now if they make a kill, they'll have some points for a comeback with another vehicle.

There is an interesting flip side to this in arcade the aa's are from 4.0 to 7.0 more a punching bag for the planes than the other way around

I just love that spookston says that everything has a problem literally

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

Next video title. "War thunders war thunder problem"

We also find a few of the trees have AA's that require more knowledge or skill (slow firing bofors) and are not replaced for entire ranks which can reduce a teams overall AA ability if players have an AA but wont use it for AA because it doesnt feel rewarding as being able to drive with cruise control on an clear 5 tanks in 30 seconds.

At this point it's War Thunder's "insert anything here" War Thunder's War Thunder problem xd

00:39 "Thats a vehicle meant to destroy planes, how can it destroy tanks so well?" Enter the German Flak 88- German Eastern front- WW2 lol

i don't hate AA. I see them killing tanks no different than a APC killing tanks. If a AA is overpowered than gaijin hasn't gave it a high enough BR. I strongly disagree with the limiting of AP belts

@stann.4443

2 жыл бұрын

Gaijin: Copy that, Let's move the M19 to 9.7 where its balanced, and face jets!

Air supremacy in realistic GROUND modes is a far bigger problem until you get to the top tiers. AA is hard to use and everyone else is basically defenseless. Air units being hard to use in a ground mode should be absolute least concern.

Ah yes, my M42 Duster. My most successful SL spender

Spookston: Wants Antiair that have AP capability nerfed. Spookston: Wants HSTVL SAM with the regular HSTVL having Proxy fuse. Seems legit.

Thank you for working on pacing and enunciation! Best Regards!

i think that if there were ai planes and copters flying around AA would be preocupied with dealing with the enemy air assests and not have to fight ground units

>Most hated vehicle type in the game No, that would be CAS. Definitely CAS.

@aedenwright1994

2 жыл бұрын

Nah no vehicle type is overpowered they all have their own checks and balances

Disappointed by no mention of the R3 T20 and how ridiculous that thing is. Got to love sending a 1980s Italian vehicle against early 1940s vehicles that it shreds at the same BR!

@JollyRogers102

2 жыл бұрын

It's had three different videos only for itself tho

@SerenissimaRepublica

2 жыл бұрын

@@JollyRogers102 I still think it's worth mentioning when discussing the overall problem, but fair enough!

@JollyRogers102

2 жыл бұрын

@@SerenissimaRepublica I mean, it got several different videos, I know it's disgusting, you know it, we all know it. It'd be like beating a dead horse. And mind you beating a dead horse is super fun but-

Even if I throw away the objective is on the ground issue for low pen SPAA, they are also hard to use well against planes. New players haven't completely gone away from using rangefinding from 500m or beyond yet, asking them to shoot agile targets 1km away with 1km/s HE belts is just a waste of their effort and not fun at all. Fast firing guns partially compensate the accuracy issue but you need multiple hits to do any serious damage anyway, it's still user-unfriendly. I'm not good at it either, unless one flies towards me I'm unlikely to hit them, let alone destroying them. This means my lineup (as a ground main, I dont like flying) either has no SPAA or only use those that deal with tanks well and mainly shoot at tanks with them. Further making SPAAs less true to their namesake.

One issue i wish they fixed was adding flak guns for lower brs to help deter aircraft a bit more. Also not referring to map flak cannons I'm referring to more flak cannon vehicles, as the only one rn is the Flak 88 Truck and VFW which is a pain in the ass to rangefinder just to fire a round

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

The problem with that is that something like the 88 flak was used against targets high up in the sky. It is simply to slow to keep up with a plane that is close to ground level.

@sinisterisrandom8537

2 жыл бұрын

@@a.b.3455 the other issue is it's rarely used by anyone one thing I've noticed and why people don't is range finding the vehicle just to get the timing somewhat close, issue with how its been implemented in WT is by the time you get close the plane is A dead, B killed you or C gone.

Also ironically, people in Arcade stay more honest to their role when they spawn in an SPAA. Because you will light up on everyone's HUD like christmas tree, you can't hide in cheeky spots to get flank shots. People will usually instagib you if you peek because they are aware of you. Meanwhile the powercreep of pure AA players is insanely slept on, considering Arcade GB's CAS spawns mechanics. You can effectively sit idle in spawn, wait for people to get some CAS points, and then easily snipe out any Fighter/Bomber with the arcade indicator. You don't even need to land a killing blow either, most Fighters will suicide dive into a tank, so if you get even the tiniest 7.62 mm scratch on them, it counts as your full kill. Combine this with the mechanic of getting a free CAS point every few minutes if your team is holding the Objective advantage, you can watch a movie in your spawn and rack up stupid amounts of ground kills, by hopping into a fighter and deleting any open-tops/armored cars/BMPs while occasionally bombing the 4 heavy tanks sitting on the Objective, since everyone will be brightly displayed and identified on your HUD.

@ausaskar

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah the meta in AB is so different to RB, that RB commentary is kinda irrelevant to that mode. Mobility is huge in RB and not really a factor in AB and vice-versa with armour protection.

my problem with spaa is the tunguska some times the thing just looks at me in my 2a6 and my gun is dead in 1ms and than i die at 20 fps as it fires so many rounds that the serves just give up and let them pen

It seems like most of the CAS problems are around 6.7-7.7, so they should definitely have very good spaa. What frustrates me though is top tier, where radar guided AA tanks were implemented before the radar guided/IR guided systems were ever put in place for war thunder, hence why its a radar lock, fire missile, and you just keep watching the aircraft. I think for top tier SPAA it should be purely a radar lock or IR lock, no guidance from the player.

There is also a snowball effect, the more spaa and lightly armoured vehicles are played, the more effective spawning in one becomes.

As a US main, Any changes they make to SPAAs ability to kill tanks wouldn't matter to me anyways since the M247 is the first one that even poses a threat to tanks and its all the way up at 8.7

As a different idea: Why not remove the AP munitions from the "difficult" SPAAs like the falcon, but give them scouting and repairing ability, so they have something to do in their meantime. I dont mind not being able to kill tanks, if i had more to do when following my team. Which is what they should be doing anyways. Repairing seems like a really good idea, not that sure about the scouting. Maybe they need to have a longer cooldown inbetween scouts, or implement 2 different scouting mechanics and give the more "advanced" one to light tanks.

That boredom problem could be solved by allowing you could return to spawn to switch out for another vehicle in your lineup, with either a full or partial refund of the SPAA’s SP, and having the first vehicle remain good and ready to go. Of course if you took a proper tank out first and died you’re out of luck but it would be a nice alternative to being useless. This could also be used to switch to a plane without wasting a perfectly good tank and costing your team victory points.

Another one you forgot to mention for AA’s that can’t really kill any tanks is the Shilka

Gaijin completely ignores muzzle velocity when "balancing" SPAA vehicles. If there was any change to SPAA, I would hope that vehicles with absurdly high muzzle velocity relative to their BR equivalents get moved up.

High br radar+cannon spaags are so useless nowadays. Gayjin nerfed the accuracy to the degree that one long burst can't even make a single hit. Also if the target is flying low, the lead indicator will go crazy.

Absolutely fucking love the subtle subnautica music in the background

Low tier SPAAs are mostly designed to be set up and used in groups shooting down slower targets like Lancasters or He-111s, so it gets kind of frustrating when you're the only AA on your team and you have to shoot down a fighter

3:35 Heres the root of the problem. Planes are a handicap, EZ kills for people better at planes than tanks. I play for tanks, not to get bombed by planes who I can't shoot back at effectively.

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

Everytime I get killed by CAS I cant help but just feel cheated because there was probably nothing i could have done to avoid dying.

I'm going to say this as a Pilot and former Squadron Battle player: Planes should be available with ground attack ordnance from the start of a battle, at the cost of all Spawn points, but would have a limit to 4 planes at a time for low player count matches, and up to 6 or 8 when there's a lot of players. The planes would not get an airspawn and would instead have to take off from the airfield, bombers would get an airspawn above the airfield. That way, you can make spawning an AA at the start valuable without having the risk of planes whiping out tanks in the spawn at the start of the match. AAs and planes have an interesting dynamic, since both can kill the other pretty easily if they land their shots but with the AAs having the advantage of being easier to hide while planes are easier to spot in an open sky.

@a.b.3455

2 жыл бұрын

This is the best possible idea if you want whole teams be wiped out by kamikaze bombers. As it is, planes are already just used for cheap kills. If they were available at the start of the match it would be no different, but if they also cost all SP people would leave even more games after one death.

Spookston: "A few good AAs are Lvkv-42, ZSU-57, and Falcon" The Wirbelwind laughed "You are wrong"

The most glaring issue is the lack of actual AA sights. If you want people to shoot at planes, you should equip them to do so.

@1:55 that poor KV2 crewmember kept taking round after round after round straight to his johnson.

You know. I often use AA vehicles as a last resort, since they are cheaper then the actual tanks. So while I don't have enough points for a tank I have enough for AA.....

Nice how we can hear the in game voices but not the other sounds in Spookstons vids lol

How to kill a Tank with a Gun unable to penetrate them from the front in WarThunder Step 1. Aim at the Barrel/Tracks/Gun breech Step 2. Pray that their team isn't group up each other Step 3. Profit via flanking to their side and Set them on fire Let's go back to Step 1. , what's the MOST Effective way to achieve this? Simple , a Rapid Firing Gun that has enough power to damage things It just so happens that almost all SPAA meets this aside from small and slow firing calibers like the Maxim Milk truck and those low tier AA that doesn't have .50 cal level of firepower Now if you just flank with them , you can imagine how much tanks you can kill with it.

@strategicperson95

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty much, I've killed many Jumbos and T-34s in the Ostwind II because they weren't paying attention to their flanks or were distracted. However if run into an IS tank, it mostly is the end unless they are clueless too. And even then, it's a target I can't kill, just cripple. Except that one time in a panic where I somehow killed the turret crew of an IS.

The vehicles that I hate more are planes and choppers, so actually I like when there is anti air on the match.

Yeah no, SPAA is not so broken that they need to nerf it like this. I'm tired of getting constantly nuked by Cas and spaa being easily available is key to convince players to bring out a situational team support vehicle.

The thing about the limited AP belts idea is that, at least for me, the M19 and 42's HE does literally fucking nothing to aircraft when I use it so I end up taking full AP and taking their wing off with it

AA vehicle balance. Yet another problem that exists in WT because of the existence of CAS.

@Skringly

2 жыл бұрын

@L Gaijin give sabots to aa vehicles so they can actively fight and defend themselves in game against tanks. AA vehicles exist in the game in order to give ground forces some questionable measure of counter play against CAS. If CAS wasn't in the game, there would be no need for AA vehicles to have been added and as a result we wouldn't have to issue with some of the OP sabot firing AA vehicles. Keep up dude.

Gaijin should just limit the amount AP belts an AA vehicle can carry. Also, when talking about boredom, maybe Gaijin should just remove arty and replace it with an airstrike, so that AA vehicles have AI planes to shoot down.

You could make it that AP belts require more spawn points. Kind of like how the Do-335 and other aircraft do.

@otdewiljes

2 жыл бұрын

This is a similar idea to 'call decent pen SPAA light tanks' - but I think this is more elegant, indeed.

@snaketanker

2 жыл бұрын

You say this, but then that opens a whole new can of worms because then they’d implement that on all vehicles because people would bitch and moan about certain ammo types, and make this shit game even more unenjoyable when players vehicles can’t preform very well when they get stuck having to use garbage shells because they don’t have the points to spawn with better rounds and can’t pen/kill enemies effectively.

@blitzkrieg8776

2 жыл бұрын

@@snaketanker True, I guess you could also classify some of the SPAA to light tanks due to their penetration abilities.

I usually play Stormer as stariting tank, and the maches where your team loses and enemies do not spawn CAS are worst, ou get nice Zero in earnings, you have to pay almost 20K in repairs, and you have waisted 15 min of your time. But if you try to spawn anything else, oh boy here comes the CAS witch will destroy your SPAA as soon as you spawn.

The problem with OP Anti-air is usually similar as with many other vehicles. Because of the BR logic, they come from the future to mess up with older technology.

The main issue of SPAA is how useless they are against planes. Especially radar ones. Yeah just aim and shoot. But when the planes have some shitty Ace Combat physics by wiggling everywhere with no issue and still manage to bullseye a missile on your ass while you didn't land a single hit even tho you were on target, there's a problem.

The ZSU 57-2 is hilariously awful against planes of its own BR without the (chinese tree only) proxy fuze.

My Suggestion: Keep the SPAAs at the same cost, but introduce cost for different Ammo types. Using just AA-Belts: Lower Spawn-cost. Using AT-Belts: High Spawn-cost. Would leave the people using SPAAs against Planes alone and still limit the People using a Wirbelwind to decimate Tanks.

I think a fair rule should be that they should not be able to pen tanks frontally. 90% of the time when people are pissed off that SPAA killed them it's because they got penned from the front, at an angle, or in some incredibly gaijin-y way(which AA dumping loads of rounds is far more likely to happen). The other 10% of the time it's when they have little to no recourse against AA that's disabled their gun. This is slightly less bad with the US because they've got at least _some_ recourse against a variety of AA but it's not hard to snipe the commander and disable that too. So I think that's what would solve the issue overall. Eliminating the ability of AA to frontal-pen mediums/MBTs, and limiting their ability to destroy guns somehow.

2:16 this clip of the heavy slowly turning its turret is pretty ominous lol

Can’t wait for war thunder’s medium tank problem

I really believe some the tunguska is the most unbalanced top tier ground vehicle. It has great missiles, good mobility and great survivability for a AA. Also, it’s auto canons are ridiculous. The Tunguska also has the huge advantage of not facing ka50 and k52, which are the the worst helis to destroy has they have really fast missiles that can destroy the missiles AA are shooting at you. If a Tunguska fights most western helis armed with Hellfire or other, the Tunguska will most likely get the kill. If any AA fights a ka50 and especially 52, it will die.

My favorite is the Begleitpanzer 57, (Begel Panzer).. If the 57mm Bofors doesn't do them in, there's always the TOW-II to break their hearts.

I love my kubleblitz. Aside from bombs and ATGMs, aircraft can't seem to destroy it. Woe to the fool who decides to dive on it.

@aedenwright1994

2 жыл бұрын

Laughs in HVARs

They did limit the amount of Ap Belts you can have on the Gepard but that it there isnt any other AA that has limited Ap Belts i Think

"things can get pretty boring if theres no air to kill, or you can't kill tanks." meanwhile me in AAA GAZ with Moscow song on repeat

Spam with a vehicle designed to destroy aircrafts: "proceed to eliminate light/medium and main battle tanks"

“What?” “It can’t be that bad” *Opens up some Reddit forum on AA’s* “OH MY GOODNESS”

WIth the new changes to the speed and maneuverability of AA missiles most top tier AA have to rely on eyeballing shots and a slight jink from a plane will make you miss entirely the proxy helps but when my Tunguska can't kill Apaches flying 2km away and my adats cant kill g91s something is wrong

That point you made about uptiering vehicles not necessarily being a nerf is extremely prevalent in war thunder and Gaijin probably should look into where they put a vehicle accordingly. For example I will defend that the centurion mk3 uptier way back from 6.7 to 7.0 was actually a buff since it meant you could bring a jet into the lineup and suddenly the one thing that posed a threat to you: axis CAS was suddenly also prey for you. Another example is the uptiering of the WZ305 which now its around 8.0 - the same BR as radar AA is able to body helicopters on a regular basis rather than only seeing them in an uptier whilst also seeing almost exclusively thin skinned MBTs.

Who else thinks we should be able to fire the driver's coax mg on tanks if the vehicle is stationary of the driver isn't doing anything?

Another spookston video he talks calmy about game issues while killing whole enemy team