How does Vortex have some of the finest high power, insanely robust rifle scopes in the industry while simultaneously having waffle house tier optics with booty cheek reticles as well..........actually, on second thought, that's literally Leupold's entire schtick too. Nevermind

@oso1165

Жыл бұрын

And sig is the reverse. Nice red dots and garbage scopes 😂😂😂

@baconatordoom

Жыл бұрын

​@@oso1165 Not all sig red dots are good, the ones made by holosun for sig are. The romeo zero is the most garbage optic of them all. Lense cleaning wipes made for lenses scratch the lense. And you have to put a shim under the battery so the optic will stay on. One drop and it's done without the optional "Ironside" cover.

@chaoticcaninejb

Жыл бұрын

​@@oso1165 damn which ones are good 😅

@oso1165

Жыл бұрын

@@chaoticcaninejb the Romeo series is solid, from the budget 5 to the expensive 4 and 8 are great. Their new enclosed pistol dot they're developing for the US seems like its gonna be solid too

@mmclaurin8035

Жыл бұрын

What's wrong with Waffle House?

holy shit vortex is now on the same level as the burris fast fire 2! game changing. the ripples of this release will be felt by the entire industry,

@natsuccubus

Жыл бұрын

the nipples of this release will be felt by me >:3c

@chaoticcaninejb

Жыл бұрын

Gotta be honest, I'd rather have a fast fire over this

@kxkxkxkx

Жыл бұрын

@@chaoticcaninejb6 moa? Yeah you def want the 3moa fastfire 💯

@pewpew9193

Жыл бұрын

​​@@chaoticcaninejb The Fast Fire 3 is actually good. Haven't tried the 4.

@chaoticcaninejb

Жыл бұрын

@@pewpew9193 agreed, I had one for a while and never had any issues with it and dot was super crisp

Went to The Gathering in South Carolina and they had a booth. My buddy and I were talking about the refresh rate, it was terrible. They got pretty defensive about it and said oh you won’t notice when it’s on a gun and you’re shooting.

@not_your_business666

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't trust my life with a red dot made by a company which has their booth at a juggalo fest.

@Pyreleaf

Жыл бұрын

'Guys, it's okay, you already make fantastic scopes, you don't have to be good at everything.'

@sithticklefingers7255

Жыл бұрын

“Oh that speed wobble‘ll break right in after about 200 miles.”

@jailbotmark1379

Жыл бұрын

Whoop whoop

@Murphy82nd

Жыл бұрын

The “you won’t notice it” comment is kind of silly when you can just buy a red dot where this isn’t even noticeable, and I’m not sure what the selling point of the Vortex is over those other dots.

Pistol red dot tier list when?

@operator8014

Жыл бұрын

They would all be in the F-tier for him. He's so salty.

@isafleader

Жыл бұрын

It's not his fault that's the majority of red dots are shit

@getoveryourself2212

Жыл бұрын

@@isafleader especially most of em lack style points for cool reticles.. understandable that it’s implied in most of the names (red dot)

@gypsonny2

Жыл бұрын

​@@operator8014 irons would probably get a D

@operator8014

Жыл бұрын

@@gypsonny2 Only if they were officially licensed EOTech irons.

The usual alternative to PWM for LED brightness control is "constant current" where you regulate the current through the LED. Voltage regulation doesn't really work for LEDs when you're trying to very precisely adjust the brightness.

The refresh rate flicker is my biggest 'nope' for any dot displayed optic. The problem has been solved, so there is no excuse for it. Some people have a brain configuration where they are immune to seeing the flicker, but it's literally the first thing I see if I use an optic with flicker.

@GodsDrunkestDriver

Жыл бұрын

493rd Gang! On topic, having (I assume) astigmatism, most red dots are a mess for me.

@TeensierPython

Жыл бұрын

I have problems with TVs and refresh/stutter/flicker rates as well Some people aren’t as sensitive to the flicker; so not an issue for them I suppose?

@sinisterthoughts2896

Жыл бұрын

​@@TeensierPython it's more common for people to be less sensitive.

@4thbx

Жыл бұрын

It's possible that your eyes are cameras. Your frame rate is out of sync with a particular red dot's typically imperceptible flicker. Please report to the Tyrell Corporation immediately for an optical firmware update.

@BasedF-15Pilot

Жыл бұрын

@@GodsDrunkestDriver 493rd and 390th then back to 493rd. :)

I'm just happy to see the MC2C making appearances. Hop doesn't lie about when he really likes a gun.

@sebring4444

Жыл бұрын

MC2C is a great gun, would recommend it over the G48 any day.

@xx8836

4 ай бұрын

Gross.

Perhaps the Vortex RDS we have been waiting for are the friends we made while waiting Vortex to act competently.

It would be interesting to see a review on the updated CCW looks like they updated the emitter and changed it to 10 minute auto shutoff

I love it when Hop says Oooooooof...

Thanks for sharing your insight on the Vortex red dot. I will say that I found that Holosun’s customer Service is outstanding. I had an issue with a red dot in which the coating was scratched and they sent me a new optic right away. The best part is that they actually answered the phone. It’s hard to consider anyone else other than Holosun when it comes to red dots. They are the price to performance leader delivering more value than their competitors.

@Pyreleaf

Жыл бұрын

@@___meph___4547 Sig's high-end dots seem g2g, but yeah, otherwise hard to beat Holosun.

@Osprey1994

Жыл бұрын

I would say the main issue with holosun is their risers for their rifle dots, are pretty bad. That being said you can easily swap them out for something super nice or for something good enough.

@angelokolinoff370

Жыл бұрын

​@OspreyBravo18 yeah I've had the picatinny bolts on the mounts just randomly snap. So now most just get any other type of mount like an ADM

@Error_404_Account_Deleted

Жыл бұрын

Shows their true cost on it if they fling replacements like poo and vortex

@Quality_Guru

Жыл бұрын

@@Error_404_Account_Deleted And if they don’t honor their warranty and never respond to a request it means they are solidly built?

vortex is clearly hiring engineers from sonoran desert institute

I was hoping you'd talk about the polymer insert and reveal whether it's a clever way to enhance durability without getting a nasty letter from Trijicon's lawyers, or just marketing fluff.

Hop I have had a VERY rough start to my week and when I saw this video title I literally LOLed. Thank you.

@Hoplopfheil

Жыл бұрын

Glad I could help

Vortex is so strange to me. They were pretty innovative 10ish years ago and they seem to have a bunch of smart gun guys working there but they consistently come out with mediocre gear for a mid tier price

@ElTejon47901

Жыл бұрын

Vortex=Big Retard Energy

@rodiculous9464

Жыл бұрын

It's called POORtex for a reason

@Ando2k10

Жыл бұрын

Probably putting all of their efforts into the new military optic. Have you seen Garand Thumb's video on that thing?

@getoveryourself2212

Жыл бұрын

@@Ando2k10 what’s it called?

@-Seeker-

Жыл бұрын

@@getoveryourself2212 NGSW FC (XM 157). NGSW is the weapons program and FC is the optic (Fire Control).

I've been using mine for about a month now and this is literally the first time I've ever heard of refresh rate flicker as a concept. Never thought about it, never bothered me. 😆

@braydenkenney3313

Жыл бұрын

On some red dots it's unacceptably bad and some people are just sensitive to it. It's most noticeable when you're transitioning between targets and doing ready up type drills.

@Reldez_1

Жыл бұрын

@Brayden Kenney I got out my optic check it out, and now I can't unsee it. It's hard to believe I've never noticed it. I think when I transition between targets I usually keep the dot dead center so I've never really affected me. This actually bums me out because I was really enjoying this optic.

@jth_printed_designs

Жыл бұрын

@@Reldez_1 I bought one and returned it because it looked like complete ass, but that has no bearing whatsoever on your use of it. If you like it and it works for you, great, enjoy the optic

@braydenkenney3313

Жыл бұрын

@Bob Zedler sometimes it's better to not know haha. I have a Vortex Sparc 2 and I've heard some people say they see it with that dot but I never have. I was just doing some drills last night with it and never noticed any sort of trailing or refresh related artifacts.

@save2a4all

Жыл бұрын

​​@@Reldez_1 what do you have it mounted on - direct RMSc? Compact and avoiding adapter plates for G43x/G48 is the biggest appeal to me.

Another solid video filled with the right information. No sugar coating on the negatives either. I think people who are shopping for optics with budget in mind should certainly watch your videos first. Even if the price point is good for them. There are still a lot of negatives people really need to consider when going with cheaper optics. Thanks for sharing the info.

Started using this on a glock 43x (3moa). Directly mounted, needed no zeroing, didn't fail after a few hundred rounds. PLENTY bright outside at noon in fl. Racked off items... shot out to 100 yards ringing steel. 200 too, but i just couldn't hold pistol steady enough to ring it. Yes, I see the refresh rate issue people mentioned, but in no way did it cause any issues shooting... I did notice it maybe once, but that's it. We will need battery life. I changed out the no-name battery to a Duracell. My ONLY complaint is, 14 hour auto shut-off? Are you serious? I could get way longer battery life if it just shut off after 10 mins. All that being said... I highly recommend this red dot.

@marcusborderlands6177

6 ай бұрын

Why reccomend it? There are better options for less money

@Artburg

2 ай бұрын

HOLOSUN?

@glockster68

2 ай бұрын

the new model has a 10 min shutoff on it.

I didn't even know refresh rate flicker was a thing till you bought it up in this video. I'm a fan of this channel though and grateful to have an honest review. Maybe my brain is too slow to process the flicker on my venom.

@BRING_GUNS

Жыл бұрын

I can't really see any flicker on my Venom but on the internet I've seen at least one person complain about the Viper's flicker and then say he bought a Venom which didn't have flicker, so maybe it's just a Viper issue. I can notice bad flicker on my Burris Fastfire IV with the auto brightness setting on but it goes away if I put it on any of the set brightness settings.

So I have a Sparc AR and a Crossfire red dot and I've honestly never noticed the flicker. They're definitely not aimpoint quality, but I've always found them to be fine and serviceable. And then just out of curiosity, after watching this video I was playing with them last night, and now I can't not see the flicker... Why Hop, why!?

Please continue that viscious cycle; the result is valuable information for the rest of us.

I said the exact same thing when I saw this in the store. I really value your honesty.

I'm excited for your take on the Ruger ready Dot!

Your videos are great. I like your honest commentary and delivery.

I bought this optic around a year ago for a shotgun and got a good price on it. I have now moved this to my carry gun lits still the same original battery running.not sure how but this red dot is great if you have a bad stigmatism like me.Ive also beat on it quite a bit and it holds zero and seems to take it well. Only down side i have is the 14hour shake awake is rediculous and not sure what they were thinking, and the refresh rate is slow, but it doest bother me until i mess with one of my other dots. Id say if you can get it for $250 or less its the best by far in that price range!

Thanks for the unbiased and colorful review!

They added the knurling to the front for Aaron Cowen points

I didn't hear great things about the auto brightness on the Shield RMSc and having a vortex venom on another pistol that I've been happy with, I decided to try the defender. The venom does not suffer from the refresh rate issue. I'm guessing they had more space to properly implement a different design internally, but you would have thought they could have overcome that in the proceeding years leading up to the defender. Yes, the refresh rate is is very apparent at anything but the highest brightness setting. That being said, I only really notice it if I move the optic around in my hand where the dot is moving around a lot in the window. If I'm transitioning targets, and my view is shifting with the gun/optic, it's way less of an issue. It hasn't gotten on my nerves enough yet for me to consider replacing it, but time and more shooting/competitions will tell on that. I do like the meat tenderizer on the front of the optic, I use it pretty regularly for press checks. It's handy for small guns like the sheild plus that don't have a ton of slide real estate for manipulation... Or I'm just lazy. As for the overhang of the optic on the sides of the slide, I think maybe they did that on purpose to get a larger window. I have a Holosun SCS on another pistol. It fits flush with the sides of the slide, but the window is noticeably narrower. The auto-shutoff function, like hop said, basically means it never shuts off. They need to drop the timer way down for it to be useful at all at saving battery life. But if the battery dies, the cowitness is great and the optic doesn't impede use of the iron sights at all. All that being said, I think if they dropped the price on this optic, it would be easier to consider. $160 - $180 range might be an easier pill to swallow.

Just on battery life. The defender works out to 375 days. I hope you change the battery at least every year. 15,000 hours is 625 days. I would not trust any battery left in my optics for two years and hope it doesn’t corrode in the meantime. All I have to say about battery life.

I have 3 Vortex Venom red dot s. Never had any of the issues on any of them. They are installed on competition pistols amd have performed flawlessly theough thousands of rounds each. Also have a Burris FF3 on a G19. Zero issues with it. Just purchased a Holosun RMSc footprint 407. Having a 1911 slide cut for it. I have 3 Vortex rifle scopes on 3 long range rifles and a Vortex Spitfire 2 red/green serup on a 300BO AR. NEVER any issues with any of them. Pretty much all red dot sights are China made.

I had honestly never noticed the refresh rate and was a bit confused. I picked up my rifle with a Vortex viper dot on it and couldn't see it until decreasing the brightness a lot and doing a quick and constant circular motion that I would never do in normal use. Maybe it will be one of those things that I'll continue to notice now that it's been pointed out, but I doubt it. Having done similar motions with other optics, I do now notice the difference where it's a streak instead of discrete dots. Maybe it's just me and my eyes, but I don't see why that's obviously better.

@KTheStruggler

Жыл бұрын

From what I've seen it depends on the person. I don't have any issues with flicker either unless it's so bad I can't track it while moving.

@TeensierPython

Жыл бұрын

Flicker is the only thing I notice. I see it in LED lights, TVs, and so on. Lucky you don’t notice it. Save some money on many electronics.

As usual, really appreciate your honesty w product evaluations.

The vortex warranty is what they do right. Wouldn't trust them as an EDC. But a fair priced optic with that kind of warranty for range toys, I can't complain. I ran over my venom on a lawnmower. Customer service just laughed and asked for my address. Sent a new one with a return package for the old one.

Thank you for all of your information and work, you provide so much to the community. Have you ever reviewed the RITON MPRD Gen2? I think for $100-125 it's a decent competitor for these 2 that you compared. I have a couple, one on a 5.5-inch PCC and a 8-inch 300AAC. after a few(350-500) hundred rounds on either, it has surprised my expectations. On a price pont I was considering the 407k for another build but now after watching this, I may reconsider that and continue with what works for me. Appreciate the video.

It works great for me on my hellcat pro lots of use and abuse and 9 months on original battery still going strong!

3:45 Got the Sparc Solar as an offset red dot for the Badger C1. No issues with refresh rate. Dot is actually as clear and sharp as my T2. Sage Dynamics has a pretty thorough review of it and touches on refresh rate if I remember correctly.

In other news: the sky is still falling, taxation is still theft, and holosun is still the default pistol RDS

@SamSam-ih6nt

Жыл бұрын

​@Jesse Robinson okay John, or is it Jason

@The_Rob_D

Жыл бұрын

@@Gaviid So what do you use to compensate for your small dick?

@nateb9346

Жыл бұрын

@@Gaviid I have a Trijicon RMR and I still prefer the holosun on one of my other pistols. It’s so much better in just about every way.

@CameronMorrison-sy8tb

Жыл бұрын

Triji is life

@timowens7214

Жыл бұрын

​@@Gaviid trijicon far behind in the times. Only thing going for it is durability

Almost sounds like they got two teams, a team during the week coming up with odd choices, then a weekend team coming up with good ideas..

I really enjoy your content and demeanor. Thank you Hop! Appreciate you man!

Everyone else: Vortex is amazing. Hop: Still sucks. 😅😅

@tombrady5867

3 ай бұрын

Because he is paid to trash brands other than Holosun.

Damn I’m glad I watched this review because I was leaning towards this red dot for my m18. Thank u sir.

Would love to see a Promethean LP-1 review. I bought one on the preorder and their drop testing video was very interesting since an eotech broke on the first drop.

As always, I appreciate your straight honesty. Thanks for another great review.

The refresh deniers give me similar vibes to those who said the difference between 30fps and 60fps didn't matter back in the 2000s.

"That one semester of microelectronics I took back in high school" Brother what! My highschool didn't have that, I had to pay the college rate for all my electronics classes ..

Vortex has one of the best warranties out today. That being said, the Defender adds a shake awake ON with a 14 hr shutdown. They said it was for officers on duty. (That means the optic will be ALWAYS ON for estimated 3-4 days straight) Theres also the chance of hitting that lockout if that left button is pressed against you in a IWB holster when carrying concealed. That can be fixed if Vortex changes to a 2-button activation. Get well soon HOP

@HawaiiFoodAndFun

Жыл бұрын

@@___meph___4547 not a big fan of the long shutdown either

@glockster68

2 ай бұрын

The new models has a 10 min shutoff.

Seeing as you did a tier list of magpul stocks, would doing a tier list for Sig rifle red dots be something you'd be interested in doing?

@joshuagunderson6593

Жыл бұрын

I’d love a full budget optic tier list with Holosun, Sig, Vortex and Primary optics. But I’d definitely settle for sig alone.

*pets RMR RM07 and says* "sssshhhhh you're still the king of MRDS's I prromise"

Another good review. Thanks hop. I’ll hold on to my 407k. But I appreciate vortex trying to do better, kinda haha

Thanks for the honesty Hop.

This why I like yo channel you get straight to the business ong💯💯

I'm glad to hear that others experience the self adjusting to blank red dots. When I got my red dot for carrying, I couldn't find anything suggesting that it wasn't just my problem and my problem alone. I had to get a leather punch and make holes in my holster where the buttons are

I am 78 and still an active shooter. I have about 10 red dot sights. I bought one of these for my TX22 competition and it’s OK. I have sights that I like better, but I am satisfied with this for the application in using it on.

I have one just as good as my other red dots the tricky tac stuff is crazy it works and works well

This was a Very thorough review. Covering topics most people don't even consider! Good job Hop. 🍻

Ouch that kinda hurt but your review was honest. I got to compare the Vortex Defender Red 3 MOA vs the ESP Carry GR 2 MOA on Saturday. I CCW without a round in the chamber (save it...I have my reasons) so the checkering on the Defender was a cool feature. The EPS Carry 2 MOA dot, green reticle, closed emitter, 25k hrs battery life w/ the 3 to 5 minute sleep timer was the difference in which one I purchased. I hope Vortex continues to develop this optic line to compete with the competition. Because Vortex's customer service is amazing, from sale reps to customer service reps.

@BasedHyperborean

5 ай бұрын

Is the reason you being a scaredy-cat?

1:17 - Im getting serious Terminator 1 vibes from that whole outfit. Love it!

Ooo, cool new farm setting. 🚜💨

I used Vortex; it's not bad optics, but I tend to favor Holosun because of the two moa red dot. I'm not too fond of a three moa, and I want a large enough dot to see the target. Plus, the shake and wake technology, I give the upper hand to Holosun. Great content 💪

Great review. Refresh rate is a deal breaker for me. Thanks.

I have one of the original sparc red dots (non solar) I like it. My only complaint would be it lacks shake awake

Like usual, don’t buy the first generation. Well done video with true point comments. Keep up the excellent work.

The Venom was my first pistol red dot upgraded to an RMR

You need to review. The Ruger Ready Dot. Good video Sir.

Hop went to American Renaissance conference? Based!

another great video as always, appreciate your worj

glad to see a dovetailed aimpoint PRO is still the play

@cute_smol_kat

Жыл бұрын

hai nat

@natsuccubus

Жыл бұрын

@@cute_smol_kat hiiiiiii kot heloooooooo :3

@cute_smol_kat

Жыл бұрын

@@natsuccubus nat hiiiii i love uuuuu

@natsuccubus

Жыл бұрын

@@cute_smol_kat

Enclosed emitter only going forward. Tired of cleaning lint out of open emitters with compressed air and Q tips

Hop, have you tried any of these optic mounts that go in the rear dovetail? For pistols that maybe a person doesn't want to mill out, are these things viable?

@liamdowdy1659

Жыл бұрын

No

Greatest video title ever, Hop!

I own a vortex viper optics planet edition and I love it, I just wish it had shake awake. I also bought a cyelee green dot and haven’t tried it yet. But I’ve seen the enclosed holosuns suck too. The o rings don’t work, fogs up in rain.

I like mine.... Have both a 407k and this. This is better than the 407 with my astigmatism. The refresh rate doesn't bother me. Dot is there when i point it at the target. The refresh pattern up until that point for me isn't an issue. To each their own i guess. Low light, in the house, my 407k is a butterfly dot. This, is indeed a nice, red dot.

People who say they can't see red dot refresh are the same people who say they can't see the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps video games.

Great video. Thanks!

Good review as usual! I’ll stick with trijicon or aimpoint, less disappointment and I don’t need a good warranty, just a sight that works!! You can have good customer support and still make a crap optic !!

I had high hopes for this one, ohh well, adding another eps carry to the cart.

The holosun customer service like you said is amazing.

My eps carry died within 2 mags on my Glock 48. Sent it in for warranty at the end of January and finally just got a replacement last week. I’ll see how this one fares….

I posted a video with the same complaints and essentially the same conclusions a few weeks ago. Of course there were a couple people who had the optic coping in the comments saying that none of the issues were valid criticisms. It seems they added a bunch of extras in the package to distract you from the fact that it's worse than its direct competitors. I'm glad you were able to catch the refresh rate on video. As far as why it is like this: The LED takes a certain amount of time to produce light after power is applied to it, and a certain amount of time to turn off. When the LED takes a long time to turn on and off, you cannot use a faster PWM signal because the LED cannot illuminate that quickly and you're stuck with the visible flashing. One way to get around this is to use an LED with a faster turn-on time so you can pulse it faster than the eye can perceive.

One caveat. Defenders are continually under $200. I got mine for $190 shipped from Simmons sporting goods. Can’t comment on holosun prices lately. I do own all 3. 407/507k. I think they’re all great. Plus I didn’t want to cut my Glock slide to fit a 407/507k. That’s important imo.

I feel like the racking off of random stuff is intended for someone with one hand, like IRL situations where you have to hold something in one hand and defend yourself with the other. Could also be if you're injured in your hand and still need to solve the problem.

@CutlassOutdoors

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, he already said “early 2000’s Magpul Dynamics fantasy.”

@chadwik4000

Жыл бұрын

or if you have a gimp arm.

@newerest1

Жыл бұрын

​@@CutlassOutdoors if it wasn't for the fact that documented shootings have happened and required the use of one arm, I guess I could agree with that argument

@Blitzkrieg_Wolf

Жыл бұрын

Injuries, off-hand occupied with other tasks, akimbo wielding (in rare instances), cool factor... there are reasons for racking with the optic, it's the necessity of why you rack it with the optic that matters.

@CutlassOutdoors

Жыл бұрын

@@Blitzkrieg_Wolf akimbo wielding. 🤦‍♂️😂

I have the 407K and a Swampfox Sentinel and compared it to the Defender while at the LGS/range. Sadly the refresh rate is worse on the Defender than on the Sentinel, though it took seeing the Defender's horrible refresh rate in person to recognize that Swampfox's refresh rate isn't up to par with Holosun either. For those who don't see the issue with the Defender, it's likely because you don't have anything to compare it against.

EPS full size is the king of the rmsc / k footprint

Your negative reviews are much more enjoyable to watch than the positive ones for what it's worth

Love you, Hop. Even if you don't love you, I do.

I’ve never noticed refresh rate but then I’ve always used holosun red dots

a while ago you modernized the German roller delayed guns. have you thought about doing more videos about modernizing older weapons?

Thanks for the info👍 would you have a recommendation for my Springfield XDM Elite 9 mm?

lol you got me at the end because the whole time i was like who cares about refresh rate flicker it doesnt bother me. BUT im not a fan boy nor close minded so im going to get the holosun (i have the defender, it works for me) and see if theres a difference for me. ✌

5:37 nice barn, bro

I have optic ready sheild plus what should i get

The hero we need but surely don't deserve. Hop out here spreading the lords word.

Thank you

Hey Hop, thoughts on the GBRS Hydra?

Really glad I put a fastfire 3 on my Glock. Doesn't hang over the sides. Bright. Plenty of accessories. Long battery life.

You should consider doing a re-review on the newer version, they fixed the refresh rate and its a 10 minute auto-off now. I really wanted a 507k ACSS but I preferred to direct mount so went with the Vortex CCW, the updates make a huge difference. My only gripe is that if you have a setting you like locked in, it unlocks when it sleeps. They should keep it locked until you want it to unlock.

I like my CCW Defender not to bad for my first Red dot and got a good deal at Scheels

I have a crossfire on my 7in ar. I love it

I hear the new ruger ready dot doesn't suffer from any dot flicker...

@Hoplopfheil

Жыл бұрын

That depends on what you use to light the fiber optic ;)

Thanks!