The memory buffer on CD (and MD) Walkmans wasn't there to fix microphonic vibrations. It was there to buy time for the laser assembly to reposition itself after our great thumping footsteps jarred it out of place. Unless your home is prone to earthquakes, I really can't see that being an issue for a CD deck. 0s and 1s are just 0s and 1s.

I was being a dummy one day I was just test a cd player so I put it on top of my speaker because it was easy at the moment and wondered why it skipped on a louder setting yes I know I'm not the brightest

I'm an electronic tech, not that it matters but, anything that keeps my components steady and stationary is ok by me. Good one Paul.

Explaining vibrations and dampening next to a pair of speakers that you can lean on and won't even flinch. Niice! "They're after me"

Ooohh, a Snake Oil video! Thanks Paul, these are fun to watch. Only comment I have is: If I have to buy something from another vendor to improve the sound of a very expensive, high end CD player / transport, then why didn't the engineer / designer / manufacturer take care of this flaw in the first place, seeing as how easy it is to (full wave bridge) rectify? :) Have fun and keep enjoying the music!

@Antoon55

4 жыл бұрын

Well I don't think Paul said it would improve sound, just that you can hear it makes a differeence..

@kvrhifi

4 жыл бұрын

yamaha shows as future of their basic av receiver. usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a780_u/index.html

@jamesplotkin4674

4 жыл бұрын

@@kvrhifi Low vibration heatsinks. Hmm.

Paul, another old timer here. Yes, damping a chassis, with a product such as Dynamat, makes an immediate difference, in sq, for the better. All someone needs to do, is place a telephone book ( anything non resonant with a little weight), on the top cover of any component ( providing you are not blocking cooling vents ), and the difference will be heard. Love your videos. My best !

@lemn8

4 жыл бұрын

Phone books aren't manufactured here anymore haha.

I remember when Kenwood made a turn table with the base made of marble, or granite. Forgot which one.

If you're going to try the suggested experiment: remember that the placebo effect is remarkably powerful. Have someone else add the damping on and off while you're not watching, and see whether or not you can hear any difference. In my experience, in blind tests no one notices a difference. This actually applies to quite a few things that audiophiles think improves their sound.

@Coneman3

11 ай бұрын

Ignorant fool.

@Coneman3

11 ай бұрын

Get back to your jigsaw.

Cd's are just a storage medium or hard copy for your music library. You can do an exact copy and put it on a flash drive which really negates the need for a cd player altogether. If I need a quick cd player I simply use my high quality 4k bluray player which has a very heavy enclosure.

Hi Paul! Why always that big Kenwood with those 8 nice chips inside as a thumbnail every time there's a cd player/transport topic?

My SACD player has a heavy black porcelain tile square on top to prevent vibration. ( I also use an electricity conditioner and paint the edges of my CDs green! )

Guessing those cd mats apply to those cd transports where you inside the disk upside down instead of right-side Up? Seen stable platter transports where mats are used😀 thanks paul😀

Sorry, not convinced. How can you quantify the effect of a cd mat? Can you measure it?

All of my components are damped with sorbothane feet, but when I also just placed a heavy book on my yamaha cd player I thought I could hear a difference in bass tightness and less sibilant highs. The thin metal housing of such a cd player is a microphonic resonator that really should be damped in my opinion. I may get some lead ingots and place them on sorbothane pads to be placed atop the cd player in spots so as to not be blocking the thermal conductivity of the "hood" though a cd player like this doesn't really get hot even after extended play. Makes me think about dampening the Ares DAC as well.

Isn't it the other way around? Newer mechanism are more sensitive to vibrations compared to the first ones (CDM1)?

FWIW: I rip my CDs using a cheap plastic USB CD-ROM drive. The poor thing is buzzing and vibrating as it reaches ~24x speed, however my rips are always perfect (confirmed by AccurateRip DB) even in the simple burst read mode unless the CD is badly scratched. I'm not buying any mat for sure! 😄

@razisn

4 жыл бұрын

NeekonMike ripping is different than direct audio reproduction from a CD player in that in ripping errors are corrected 100% since the process is not time critical and the protocol allows for the cd controller to reread the data as many times as required or drop speed in an attempt to improve error rate. Redbook CD direct reproduction is not like this and the ability for error correction is more limited. However, errors in digital readout result in usually well defined errors such as clicks, pops, skips and dropouts not in colourations and distortion as in analogue reproduction. If you do not hear clicks and pops then you probably do not have to improve anything.

@captainwin6333

4 жыл бұрын

@@razisn No one hears clicks and pops on their domestic CD player unless they place it on top of a road drill. It's pure snake oil to come away with rubbish like putting mats on top of CD's.

@NeekonMike

4 жыл бұрын

@@razisn In the fastest burst rip mode there is no rereading, just direct feed from the drive. There may be hardware error correction happening as necessary, similar to CD player playback, but without rereading. Slower secure rip mode uses extensive error checking and rereading if needed. Still, with CDs in decent condition I get perfect rips even in burst mode so I only use secure rip if errors are encountered. No matter how some try to spin it (pun intended), CD format was designed to be very robust (look up Reed-Solomon coding and Eight-to-Fourteen modulation if interested) and even late '70s/early '80s tech works beautifully. We may have advanced the DA conversion in the meantime, but reading data reliably was never an issue.

@razisn

4 жыл бұрын

NeekonMike we are not in disagreement.

@thisisnev

4 жыл бұрын

@Omne Obstat If the disc is scratched, my venerable old Marantz CD-56 will probably read it!

Cheers for the comment ( it did help)

I remember thin flat rubber rings that you would stick on the top of a CD to "reduce vibrations". They were the size of a CD but only covered all around about 1/4 inch of the CD from the outside edge. Sort of like a rubber seal for a Mason jar. The were sold in packets of "so many" at high end audio stores. They were also supposed to improve the sound quality. Once affixed they were permanent so you needed to buy several packets for your CD collection. I guess sort of the first CD mat. The vibration "thing" about CDs as been going since they were first introduced.

@jamesplotkin4674

4 жыл бұрын

And don't forget the green magic marker around the edge so the laser light energy wouldn't spill over the edge. Clogs up the machine.

@garfieldsmith332

4 жыл бұрын

@@jamesplotkin4674 Oh yes. I did forget about that one.

Electronic Hifi gear vibrates, damping feet from factory helps, but can be modified. I don't use extra, but it makes sence to damp.

Max Townsend amongst many others is a strong proponent of vibration isolation. Playing with various types can either be rewarding or cause audio nervosa! Generally speaking the lossy types make for an easier, richer type of presentation,whereas the coupling styles ie: spikes are subjectively sharper and more dynamic.By all means experiment.Just try not to drive yourself crazy with all of the available options!

Sorry Paul, i became lost in those speakers and didn't hear a word you said.

@Spock105

4 жыл бұрын

aH those were speakers ? thought they were Trump-towers .

There is no benefit to adding dampening to the CD transport because the CD transport mechanism already a) has internal dampening; and b) has a servomechanism that keeps the laser in focus to the data layer of the disc. The vibrations from the disc spinning are magnitudes greater than what will be induced by your speakers. Also, the data coming off the disc is run through a descrambler and held in memory buffers while it’s being processed; and then it’s output at a fixed clock rate (44.1khz) which is derived from a quartz crystal. However, at and after the DAC stage, things are different: this is where the mentioned microphonics come into play; affecting capacitors, inductors, and tubes. Due to their nature and packaging, transistors tend to be immune to this, however. Ideally, you would put your analog stages in a separate sound-isolated room; and if you really wanted to go the extra mile, in a vacuum chamber and use direct liquid cooling (the same way high-end PCs do) for the components that need it. Also; one needn’t spend big $$$ on dampening materials; a layer of viscoelastic memory foam such as is sold as a mattress topper is cheap and works very well (just be sure that it isn’t blocking any ventilation holes; putting a piece of particle board or MDF on top of it between the damper and the piece of equipment being addressed will solve that issue). Alternatively, extra-large mousepads are available for not much $$$; I have several from Monoprice.

I am happy with my system set up...

I think it also depends on A the player B the quality of the disk. if the disk is disk rot or is scratched or dirty your player has more trouble reading the disk. Same if it fibrates to much. The lucky part is that a CD has a lot of tech to handle error correction. however, ideally, you get a perfect read and no correction is needed on your played media. One of the reasons i use files instead of disks :) less of an issue reading the content and its buffered in memory. When you extract a CD you can decide to use a multi-pass read. basically, it reads the data multiple times and tries to find the result that matches the most passes resulting in a better quality playback of the extracted audio. that luxury is not there is a real-time playback session on a cd player

Vibration control matters A LOT! For ANY component of the audio chain. I have many times thought I could, at last, rest and just enjoy, until the next vibration control remedy that came up to my mind, would unmistakably prove, there still had been room for improvement! I've found that solid state circuits are unexpectedly and surprisingly sensitive to microvibrations. Flaws in musical reproduction that I used to blame my loudspeakers for, proved to disappear, after applying heavy microvibration control to my electronics. (and I don't even use moving parts- like a CD transport- at all!). That said, RF/EMI pollution is another great issue, an audiophile must take good care of.

@Coneman3

11 ай бұрын

All music is vibration, so vibrations are very important.

In a drunken state last Xmas, I ebayed myself one of them Pioneer CD players with the mini turntable inside the tray, whereon you would place the CDs upside down for stability. Just for shit and giggles to see what that was all about. It has a really good headphone amp, better than the afterthoughts fitted to some modern amplifiers.

Around 1990 some thick plastic mats were put on a cd and the difference was remarkable, much more detail and ease in the sound. Probably because the error correction was much less involved because of much more stable spinning of the CD. So it was a purely mechanical effect resulting in a much better picking up of the cd track resulting in much better reproduction. But that was then. Maybe modern players ar much more stable.

So is rack mounted (i.e. screwed to) equipment a bad idea?

@awdadwadwad1723

4 жыл бұрын

Music studios have everything racked and you got best quality out of there. High end audio is massively polluted with snake oil.

@mostirreverent

4 жыл бұрын

makes sense…

Not sure if measurable but guessing that having vibration of the main quartz oscillator is less than optimum. Micro timing changes = potential for jitter. At higher volume levels with lots of bass you ideally don''t want your CD player vibrating to the beat of the music. For low volume listening it's not likely to be a big issue.

@HowieHaigh

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I've read about this online; quartz crystal oscillators can be affected by vibration, resulting in jitter.

@thisisnev

4 жыл бұрын

And this jitter sounds like...?

@HowieHaigh

4 жыл бұрын

@@thisisnev Try reading this www.stereophile.com/reference/1290jitter/index.html

My main vibration issue is my subwoofer coupling to the house causing things to rattle.

@MrBravo143

4 жыл бұрын

Buy a SVS Soundpath isolation system.

@ThinkingBetter

4 жыл бұрын

MrBravo143 Funny, I looked at those some weeks ago on Amazon and ended up with my own solution using 3 layers of rubber foam cut in squares 2”x2” and glued together. Product is called MyLifeUNIT Shock Absorbing Washer Pads. Total height is around 2.5”. They are designed for isolating washing machines but seem to work well for a subwoofer in this way.

Hey Paul, what about the microvibrations generated by the electric current going through ALL components. Every component can benefit from vibration damping solutions that absorb these microvibrations. Can you comment on that as well?

@connorduke4619

2 жыл бұрын

Furutech power cord connectors are designed to mitigate against just that.

Paul, I wonder if those who have Audio Equipment usage questions haven't already made up their minds about what is "Snake Oil" or not? I would think the only reasonably honest answer would be to answer the question, with a question. "Why would you think of it as Snake Oil"?

It does matter but if it is better or worse I don't know? = On the grand scale of things it does not matter.

What is a CD Mat? LOl... I had to google this first... But - as far as i am infected.. I believe that there is a relaation between reproduction of music and vibration-even in the electronic parts. I am not convinced if i can hear a big difference, but, from the physical standpoint it seems sound. When vibration is brought into a capacitor, then the mass can possibly work like a coil, and influence the Sound. And the same goes to any other electronic device on a board - no matter how small the parts are. That the human ear is able to hear a difference here? I think that`s crazy, but it might be. Why not? 150years ago no one beliefed that little grooves on a plain surface - picked up by a little needle-can bring a singing voice into a room. So, i give the idea the chance that it an be... I m not totally convinced, but i say, it might be... I just pretend , theere is a Transormer in a chassis of an audio device! And the transformer swings with 50Hz... And this makes it possible that sound is produced. So, on the other hand, every vibration that disturbes these 50Hz can be heared to! Why not? It`s magic! Muahaha..... lol

Perhaps someone has recorded their hifi system playing during and after an earthquake, and this debate can be settled once and for all? :)

moving wires that have current going through them will also make magnetic fields. So vibrating electronics will possibly affect the sound of components. Not just accurate reading of optical disks and vinyl disks. but vibrations from speakers that goes down into a floor will impact the sound much more. So I would start there.

Shaken All Over -- Johnny Kidd & the Pirates (1960) et al.

So what is a CD mat ? Dont mention it and not go into more detail !!

@LAZY_Z

4 жыл бұрын

Just one example: www.dagogo.com/millenniums-m-cd-mat-carbon-cd-damper-review/

@jonsingle1614

4 жыл бұрын

@@LAZY_Z ok....so what is the purpose of the mat ? Meaning....besides your ears....can you measure any improvement ?

@scholzei

4 жыл бұрын

nope you can not measure it and still it makes big difference

@jonsingle1614

4 жыл бұрын

@@scholzei i rip all my CDs to hard drive...should i use this in ripping ??

@freekwo7772

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonsingle1614 in theory, it stops laser beam to go through the disc instead of reading bits. Try google SID - sound improvement disc. They use to have a site with an explanation. I tried it and it made an improvement but I changed cd player and it wasn't compatible anymore...

Don't try to use a mat if your player is a slot loader😨😲

@QoraxAudio

4 жыл бұрын

Time to sue Paul after it's broken 😆

3:14 - the Sony Walkman, and Minidisc! FYI: - Undamped CD players are prone to digital wow and flutter.

@masocre

3 жыл бұрын

it's called jitter when you're referring to digital timing

I discovered ripping CDs to a hard drive and playing them from a computer is a terrific sound improving technique. I do not however have a high end CD player, and with my dedicated, modified for audio computer, I figure I don't need one.

@smiths7317

4 жыл бұрын

It's just taking same 1's and 0's that are on the disc, and encoding them into format of choice. Error correction is only used when the disc is scratched or when laser is refracted. Higher quality will just mean it's able to read CD's that were not pressed properly or just have higher error rate when reading back.

@johnlebeau5471

4 жыл бұрын

@@smiths7317 I can only take a guess as to why, but here is my explanation: A CD player gets one chance to read the disk. Any bits that are missed are filled in by the players best guess as to what they would have been. Ripping onto a hard drive, the optical disk can be read as many times as is necessary to get all of the information. If I understand properly, a hard drive is a much more accurate and stable storage device. I first noticed this while listening through an Apple TV's optical output wirelessly streaming stored music from a computer in another room. It sounded better than my Audio Alchemy CD player. I download most of my new music now, in DSD if possible, but I still rip CDs before listening.

I hear those are halfway decent speakers there.

@jesusgavemeaids

4 жыл бұрын

@Fat Rat nope. But if I'm ever in the area I'm taking them up on the offer to look around the place & listen to them.

Capacitors are microphone? I didn't know that! Are any other solid state devices microphonic?

I have a brick on my cd player and some foam and cardboard pads underneath. My super tweeters are on open cell foam to isolate for the speaker cabinet. My speakers spike into chopping boards on a old speaker boxs stuffed with fabric and topped with closed cell foam. Cheap cheap cheap 😆

I always thought when CD's came out they were thicker and heavier.

@darrens7040

4 жыл бұрын

fin screenname the cases certainly were

@Orcinus24x5

4 жыл бұрын

CDs are, always have been, and always will be 1.2mm thick. It's in the specification.

Paul is not the right guy to ask about snake oil products

i used to dj in a very large uk venue (the forum) and used pioneer cdj1000`s as the source . i tested them with the rigs full power @32kw and those players didnt ever skip or jump . so much power from that system your eyes couldnt focus on the mixer display !

Vibrations matter Most hifi is in a room with lots of vibrations caused by the music Therefore, does it make sense to have the system in a different room and run speaker cable through the walls?

@afrancois1968

4 жыл бұрын

Almost my entire system is in the garage. Only the CD player and turntable are in the living room and of course the speakers and subwoofers. This is mostly done because of esthetic reasons. All the gear is suspended on the wall. In the living room I use Solidsteel WS-5’s

@volpedo2000

4 жыл бұрын

Legend says that this is what Ivor Tiefenbrun noticed when listening to his records. From there he designed the legendary LP12 and Linn was born.

I remember trying tone cone points under my CD player and they just made it sound worse. Same under my turntable. The best improvement was just putting a phone book on top of my CD player.

plenty of cheap DIY audio add ons. try before judging.

The bumps wont stop

I can’t stand the use of the term snake oil in audio ... I just hate it.!

@peterbrady1536

4 жыл бұрын

Better than baby oil, where does that come from?

The jury is still out 😂🤣

@hushpuppykl

4 жыл бұрын

Fat Rat ... did you also use a green market for your CDs?

I have seen many video procing novody landed on the moon.Is it rrue. I dont knows!

He looks tiny, standing between those speakers.

Funny that vibration doesn’t bother the electronics in jet fighters.

@oldpaint9137

4 жыл бұрын

Dennis Hinman Until they need to be fixed. Fighters need regular electronics maintenance, period.

Paul, I luv ya..but... Sewing machines and Victrolas have a needle. Cartridges for turntables have styli..

@AnimusInvidious

4 жыл бұрын

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

@lemn8

4 жыл бұрын

He just told us he's an old fart. So he must be talking about 78 records 😂.

Oh those oily snakes and there decoupling and free floating flying opinions so many options too many ideas 😂

Careful Paul, the Electronics Goblins are after you!

Hi... I am old fart too hihihi

Sorry, but that's perfect nonsense what is told here in the video! Whether a CD inside a CD player is damped by some damping layer/damping mat or not, makes absolutely NO difference in sound. Neither better nor worse. Why? Because all bits are error corrected by a redundant FEC mechanism (mathematical algorithm) that repairs for all wrong bits (wrong bits due to, e.g., scratches, dust particles or vibrations). Meanwhile all corrected bits are buffered in a buffer chip so that all jitter is cancled to zero. After that the DAC converts the corrected bits into an analogue signal. So, this should be self-evident that damping of the CD does not make any sound difference. Only if the FEC margins are exceeded by too strong disturbances, bit errors might remain and might be audible. But for this you would need extremely scratched CD surfaces or a heavy shaking but not normal vibrations (for which the FEC is engineered sufficiently robust). And one further proof for this: "CD players" of computers (there called "CD ROM drives") do exactly the same like audio CD players, they collect and correct all bits via FEC and buffer them on a chip. If only one bit were wrong, e.g., a software program being stored on the CD-ROM would not run properly on your computer. So, the information on CD ROM must be 100% bit correct for any computer application (else the software will be buggy, maybe freeze). And exactly the same mechanism as for the computer CD-ROMs is applied for audio CDs and CD players. So, if all bits are 100% correct after FEC and even jitter being removed by the buffer memory chip, why should it be possible to hear differences due to a damping mat on the CD? That is real "Snake Oil" respectively so-called "audiopile BS". If you believe to hear differences, it is the placebo effect. Please check this by a real blind test and you will hear no differences anymore.

Already just childish with the tower speaker thing for a listening room? Shit people get a grip on what reproduction is rather than thinking your in Disneyland

the answer is no